SI.com - Battier Better Defender Than Bowen

[Notorious H.O.P.]

I guess this explains why Shane got so many more DPOY votes that Bruce last year.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/kelly_dwyer/08/24/usa.senegal/1.html

It was a cute talking point in the days leading up to Team USA's exhibition play -- how the squad was going to miss the defense and outside shooting of Spurs forward Bruce Bowen. This was all laughable to NBAniks, of course, because Bowen is past his prime at age 35, and Shane Battier was a better defender than Bruce last season (to say nothing of his superior skills in other areas).

But Battier has struggled with his pick-and-roll defense, and 11 rebounds in 78 minutes of play won't cut it. Bowen certainly would not have been an improvement on Battier, especially in the rebounding department, but this doesn't mean Shane can't improve. Battier's help-side defense, predictably, has been superb.

[RogerIsEatingASandwich]

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4118/cowpoogi1.gif

[MaNuMaNiAc]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1171975#post1171975

[MrChug]

I agree he's more versatile. He's bigger and stronger...gives him more of an ability to defend the bigs than Bruce. His numbers defensively will always look better in a box score. But he's not a lock down defender. He won't frustrate the quick scorers in the league. He'll never be considered among the top 2 perimeter defenders with Artest like Bowen. He's solid in every fundamental way, but won't shut down any of the league's top scorer like Bruce can.

[bdictjames]

Bruce just works harder. He may not have the steals and rebounding numbers but he is what makes the Spurs a top-defensive team, aside from TD of course.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

We need a pot smoking image but I couldn't find one online.

We'll see how great Battier is when they ask him to go chase around Manu, Dirk, etc.

[stretch]

I guess this explains why Shane got so many more DPOY votes that Bruce last year.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/kelly_dwyer/08/24/usa.senegal/1.html

It was a cute talking point in the days leading up to Team USA's exhibition play -- how the squad was going to miss the defense and outside shooting of Spurs forward Bruce Bowen. This was all laughable to NBAniks, of course, because Bowen is past his prime at age 35, and Shane Battier was a better defender than Bruce last season (to say nothing of his superior skills in other areas).

But Battier has struggled with his pick-and-roll defense, and 11 rebounds in 78 minutes of play won't cut it. Bowen certainly would not have been an improvement on Battier, especially in the rebounding department, but this doesn't mean Shane can't improve. Battier's help-side defense, predictably, has been superb.

although i dont agree Battier is a better defender than bowen by any means, they are both different types of defenders. Bowen is purely a lockdown, man defender, by far the best man defender in the league. he doesnt get lots of steals, or blocks, or anything, but he can stop just about any player in the league from getting any kind of space for a shot. but hes a pretty average lane and help defender. Battier is a solid man defender, but is also a very solid help defender and is good at clogging lanes.

[Louis]

Battier>>>>>>Bowen

Nuff Said!

[cheguevara]

hahahaha better defender than Bowen???

is that why the grizzlies got their ass kicked every recent playoffs?

[stretch]

hahahaha better defender than Bowen???

is that why the grizzlies got their ass kicked every recent playoffs?
actually, i think they got their ass kicked simply because they just werent nearly as good as the teams they faced.

[sandman]

Battier>>>>>>Bowen

Nuff Said!

Your bandwagon homering is showing. :oops

I have listened to 610AM every day for the last 3.5 years that I have lived in this town and NO ONE ever talked about getting Battier or a player like Battier.

Now that they have him, these Rockets fans act like he is a freaking mortal lock for DPOY. :rolleyes

[JGrice02]

Voting for DPOY

Wallace: 420 votes
Bowen: 308 votes
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Battier: 3 votes

[cheguevara]

actually, i think they got their ass kicked simply because they just werent nearly as good as the teams they faced.

wrong. one of the factors is that their opponents star went off on their ass. Something that could be contained w/a guy like Bowen.

Let's be honest, in defense, Battier is still miles behind Bowen.

[K-State Spur]

I agree he's more versatile. He's bigger and stronger...gives him more of an ability to defend the bigs than Bruce. His numbers defensively will always look better in a box score. But he's not a lock down defender. He won't frustrate the quick scorers in the league. He'll never be considered among the top 2 perimeter defenders with Artest like Bowen. He's solid in every fundamental way, but won't shut down any of the league's top scorer like Bruce can.

Not sure how he is more versatile. Bruce has guarded Dirk effectively in the past (when Dirk plays as well as he did in the WCF semifinals - and is given a trip to the line if you look at him wrong - he is unguardable). Bruce also has quick enough feet to guard most of the points in the league if needed.

Battier can do neither of those things. In fact, him on most of the league's better 2 guards can be viewed as a mismatch.

[stretch]

wrong. one of the factors is that their opponents star went off on their ass. Something that could be contained w/a guy like Bowen.

Let's be honest, in defense, Battier is still miles behind Bowen.
so you are going to say the grizzlies were better than the Spurs? better than the Suns? better than the Mavericks? you are basically saying that if they had Bowen instead of Battier, they could have had a chance to have won those series. pull your head out of your ass.

oh, and if you read what i said earlier, i had said that Bowen is a much better defender than Battier.

[ChumpDumper]

you are basically saying that if they had Bowen instead of Battier, they could have had a chance to have won those series. pull your head out of your ass.Well, it is a fair bet the Spurs wouldn't have won their last two titles without Bruce, even if we had Battier instead.

[stretch]

when Dirk plays as well as he did in the WCF semifinals - and is given a trip to the line if you look at him wrong - he is unguardable

shut the fuck up and quit whining about that. the spurs got equally as many shitty calls as the mavericks did. duncan got whistles any time he was breathed on. in fact, if i recall, the mavericks got called for more fouls than the spurs did in that series, so quit whining. the series is long over.

[mabber]

wrong. one of the factors is that their opponents star went off on their ass. Something that could be contained w/a guy like Bowen.

Let's be honest, in defense, Battier is still miles behind Bowen.

Dirk made Battier his bitch all 4 games of their playoff series this year.

[stretch]

Well, it is a fair bet the Spurs wouldn't have won their last two titles without Bruce, even if we had Battier instead.
i will agree with that. Bowen was a big reason for the last two titles the Spurs won. there is no question about that. in fact, i think he is the second most important player on the spurs. i think his presence is MUCH more important than Parker or Ginobili. the spurs can survive without those guys, because they have Tim Duncan. but they cant win without Bowen, because he is one of the rare players in the league that can play such great man defense, and basically take the player he guards (except for a few superstars) out of the game.

[cheguevara]

I think ppl are mixing things up here.

Is Battier a better overall player than Bowen? YES

Is Bowen a better defender than Battier? YES

Is Bowen more valuable to the Spurs than Battier would be? YES

Is Battier more valuable to Team USA than Bowen? that's to be determined

[sandman]

shut the fuck up and quit whining about that. the spurs got equally as many shitty calls as the mavericks did. duncan got whistles any time he was breathed on. in fact, if i recall, the mavericks got called for more fouls than the spurs did in that series, so quit whining. the series is long over.

Hint: when your team has the kind of success like they did this last year, others are going to take shots at them. We realize as a Mavs fan that it is something new for you, but we Spurs fans are used to it. Put on your big girl panties and deal with it. :rolleyes

[mabber]

I think ppl are mixing things up here.

Is Battier a better overall player than Bowen? YES

Is Bowen a better defender than Battier? YES

Is Bowen more valuable to the Spurs than Battier would be? YES

Is Battier more valuable to Team USA than Bowen? that's to be determined

I agree with this, except It will be hard to ever really know if Battier would be more valuable to Team USA than Bowen would be.

[BUMP]

if you guys had Battier instead of Bowen youd still win all the titles. but still Bruce>Battier. easily. comin from a Mav fan too. Battier is good tho

[slayermin]

if you guys had Battier instead of Bowen youd still win all the titles. but still Bruce>Battier. easily. comin from a Mav fan too. Battier is good tho

I beg to differ. Bowen's perimeter defense the last three or four years was at a Hall of Fame level. Is he HOFer? No. But without his defense on Kobe Bryant, Ray Allen, Shawn Marion, Rip Hamilton, Carmelo Anthony, and Chauncey Billups, the Spurs probably don't win two championships. He can guard Earl Boykins or Dirk Nowitzki.

Battier doesn't have the quickness to guard one on one players. He might be a better rebounder and post defender but he doesn't stick to guys like Bruce.

[Obstructed_View]

Your bandwagon homering is showing. :oops

I have listened to 610AM every day for the last 3.5 years that I have lived in this town and NO ONE ever talked about getting Battier or a player like Battier.

Now that they have him, these Rockets fans act like he is a freaking mortal lock for DPOY. :rolleyes
You guys need to ignore Louis. He hasn't gone on one of his asterisk and mermaid laden rants yet. Believe me, he will get himself banned before long.

[Louis]

Voting for DPOY

Wallace: 420 votes
Bowen: 308 votes
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Battier: 3 votes

The diffrence is that Battier can also contribute on the offensive end..

Bowen CAN'T

That's why he was cut.

[cheguevara]

The diffrence is that Battier can also contribute on the offensive end..

Bowen CAN'T

That's why he was cut.

title of the thread: "Battier Better Defender Than Bowen"

[Louis]

title of the thread: "Battier Better Defender Than Bowen"

That too...

[cheguevara]

That too...


Voting for DPOY

Wallace: 420 votes
Bowen: 308 votes
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Battier: 3 votes

[Kori Ellis]

That too...

You are honestly saying that you think Battier is a better defender than Bowen?

What the hell?

I understand the talk of Battier being a better "all around player" but better defender?

You are smoking crack.


2005-06 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM

Position Player, Team 1st 2nd Total Points
Guard Bruce Bowen, San Antonio 26 3 55
Center Ben Wallace, Detroit 26 2 54
Forward Andrei Kirilenko, Utah 19 6 44
Forward Ron Artest, Sacramento 11 8 30
Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 12 4 28
Guard Jason Kidd, New Jersey 9 10 28

2005-06 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM
Position Player, Team 1st 2nd Total Points
Forward Tim Duncan, San Antonio 7 9 23
Guard Chauncey Billups, Detroit 7 9 23
Forward Kevin Garnett, Minnesota 4 10 18
Center Marcus Camby, Denver 2 11 15
Forward Tayshaun Prince, Detroit 3 7 13

Other players receiving votes, with point totals (First Team votes in parentheses): Rasheed Wallace, Detroit, 12 (3); Gerald Wallace, Charlotte, 11 (3); Shawn Marion, Phoenix, 11 (1); Raja Bell, Phoenix, 9 (2); Dwyane Wade, Miami, 8 (3); Kirk Hinrich, Chicago, 7 (3); Alonzo Mourning, Miami, 7 (1); Shane Battier, Memphis, 6 (1); Gilbert Arenas, Washington, 4 (1); Andre Iguodala, Philadelphia, 4; P.J. Brown, New Orleans/Okla. City, 3; Manu Ginobili, San Antonio, 3; Dwight Howard, Orlando, 3; Josh Howard, Dallas, 3 (1); Brevin Knight, Charlotte, 3; Shaquille O’Neal, Miami, 3 (1); Elton Brand, L.A. Clippers, 2 (1); LeBron James, Cleveland, 2 (1); Tony Parker, San Antonio, 2 (1); Quinton Ross, L.A. Clippers, 2 (1); Allen Iverson, Philadelphia, 2; Eddie Jones, Memphis, 2; Jason Collins, New Jersey, 1; Boris Diaw, Phoenix, 1; Pau Gasol, Memphis, 1; Trenton Hassel, Minnesota, 1; Mike James, Toronto, 1; Richard Jefferson, New Jersey, 1; Ruben Patterson, Denver, 1; Chris Paul, New Orleans/Okla. City, 1; Jason Terry, Dallas, 1; Yao Ming, Houston, 1.


2005-06 NBA DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR RESULTS

Player, Team 1st 2nd 3rd Pts
Ben Wallace, Detroit 58 39 13 420
Bruce Bowen, San Antonio 38 33 19 308
Andrei Kirilenko, Utah 12 11 28 121
Ron Artest, Sacramento 6 7 14 65
Marcus Camby, Denver 3 9 13 55
Tim Duncan, San Antonio 3 7 6 42
Shawn Marion, Phoenix - 7 12 33
Alonzo Mourning, Miami 4 2 3 29
Gerald Wallace, Charlotte - 7 6 27
Shane Battier, Memphis - 1 - 3
Elton Brand, L.A. Clippers - 1 - 3
Andre Iguodala, Philadelphia - - 2 2
James Posey, Miami - - 1 1
Raja Bell, Phoenix - - 1 1
P.J. Brown, NOK - - 1 1
Rasheed Wallace, Detroit - - 1 1
Andres Nocioni, Chicago - - 1 1
Eddie Jones, Memphis - - 1 1
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota - - 1 1
Tayshaun Prince, Detroit - - 1 1

[Louis]

The Grizzlies were the best defensive team last year...

Thanks to Battier.

[Louis]

Where was San Antonio's Defense last year?

Nowhere to be found..

Bruce who?

[Kori Ellis]

The Grizzlies were the best defensive team last year...

Thanks to Battier.

How did you decide that? Just opponent's PPG?

What about FG% D or other factors?

[ambchang]

You are honestly saying that you think Battier is a better defender than Bowen?

What the hell?

I understand the talk of Battier being a better "all around player" but better defender?

You are smoking crack.

Don't worry about this Louis guy Lori. S/he used to hang out on alt.sports.basketball.nba.sa-spurs forum, and make stupid predictions, just to get a reaction. Nobody knows if s/he is really a Rockets fan, but s/he does, for some strange reason, have an immense hatred for the Spurs.
It started way back in the late 90's.
We all thought that s/he will grow out of it, but apparently not.
BTW, his/her predictions about the Spurs got so ridiculous, s/he became known as the anti-prophet. S/he would avoid anti-prediciting the games the Spurs could actually lose, and kept coming in and making anti-predictions about suckass teams.
I still couldn't figure out his/her motivation, probably just need some attention.
BTW, his email used to be something about myballs.

[milkyway21]

Were was San Antonio's Defense last year?

Nowhere to be found..

Bruce who?just check the season Defensive player of the Year list since Bruce joined the Spurs.

BTW, how come the tallest player in the NBA Yao Ming is not on the list of NBA's top rebounders and top shotblockers?

Is it okay for me to say he's "soft"?

[milkyway21]

SI.com - Battier Better Defender Than Bowen NOT TRUE -according to Kobe Bryant :D

[Louis]

Don't worry about this Louis guy Lori. S/he used to hang out on alt.sports.basketball.nba.sa-spurs forum, and make stupid predictions, just to get a reaction. Nobody knows if s/he is really a Rockets fan, but s/he does, for some strange reason, have an immense hatred for the Spurs.
It started way back in the late 90's.
We all thought that s/he will grow out of it, but apparently not.
BTW, his/her predictions about the Spurs got so ridiculous, s/he became known as the anti-prophet. S/he would avoid anti-prediciting the games the Spurs could actually lose, and kept coming in and making anti-predictions about suckass teams.
I still couldn't figure out his/her motivation, probably just need some attention.
BTW, his email used to be something about myballs.

I don't know what are you talking about I don't post on usenet.

I'm not the only Louis in the world.

[Solid D]

This was all laughable to NBAniks, of course, because Bowen is past his prime at age 35, and Shane Battier was a better defender than Bruce last season (to say nothing of his superior skills in other areas).

I like Shane Battier as a defender but Bruce is still a better defender.

D-Wade was interviewed this summer (ESPN, I think) and he was asked who was the toughest defender on him and he said "Ron Artest or Bruce Bowen". Did anyone else see that interview? He also said that Artest and Bowen don't go for the fakes.

[Louis]

Artest is miles ahead of Bowen as well...both on defense and offense

[Solid D]

Artest is miles ahead of Bowen as well...both on defense and offense

Ron's a more physical defender but it's a proven fact, just hit him in the lip and he gets distracted and makes too many mistakes to lock anyone down.

Ron's not miles ahead of anyone...except maybe Matt Bonner or Kiwi Marks.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Battier>>>>>>Bowen

Nuff Said!

That's why DPOY was:

Bowen: 306
Battier: 6


Good fucking call, dumbas..

:lmao

[milkyway21]

Artest is miles ahead of Bowen as well...both on defense and offense

the debate is who is better between Bowen And Battier.

[Solid D]

Battier is a slightly better flopper, plus he has corn rows, even when he's bald.

:angel

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Battier>>>>>>Bowen

Nuff Said!


Convince me he doesn't suck. Right now, I' just want to hear your logic on this one.

I really don't care that Battier gets more offensive touches, how many is he getting when he's on the court with Lebron, Wade, etc.?

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know what are you talking about I don't post on usenet.

I'm not the only Louis in the world.
You aren't the only completely stupid Rockettes homer Spur fan baiter named Louis in the world? Interesting. I'll believe it when you bring anything that isn't as weak as TMac's back.

[Obstructed_View]

The diffrence is that Battier can also contribute on the offensive end..

Bowen CAN'T

That's why he was cut.

Battier 10.1 ppg
Bowen 7.5 ppg

That's sensible, as there are only 11 guys on the team who averaged 15 or more points last year. The USA team is averaging 115 points per game, so that extra 2.6 points from Battier will put USA over the top against Germany or Argentina.

[RON ARTEST]

Ron's a more physical defender but it's a proven fact, just hit him in the lip and he gets distracted and makes too many mistakes to lock anyone down.

Ron's not miles ahead of anyone...except maybe Matt Bonner or Kiwi Marks.
what the hell are you talking about? artest is a better defender then bowen, not miles but he is better thats for damn sure. you can have your little argument about battier but artest is another conversation. bowen is old anyway. :lol

[MarkCuban]

I beg to differ. Bowen's perimeter defense the last three or four years was at a Hall of Fame level. Is he HOFer? No. But without his defense on Kobe Bryant, Ray Allen, Shawn Marion, Rip Hamilton, Carmelo Anthony, and Chauncey Billups, the Spurs probably don't win two championships. He can guard Earl Boykins or Dirk Nowitzki.

Battier doesn't have the quickness to guard one on one players. He might be a better rebounder and post defender but he doesn't stick to guys like Bruce.
:lmao

[Solid D]

Ron can be a shut-down defender...including shutting himself down.

[BUMP]

Ron can be a shut-down defender...including shutting himself down.

thats deep

[reydawg]

I agree he's more versatile. He's bigger and stronger...gives him more of an ability to defend the bigs than Bruce. His numbers defensively will always look better in a box score.

And which box score numbers are these?

[Guru of Nothing]

if you guys had Battier instead of Bowen youd still win all the titles. but still Bruce>Battier. easily. comin from a Mav fan too. Battier is good tho

That's deep.

[mavs>spurs2]

Well my dad can beat up your dad!!!!!

What a stupid argument.

[milkyway21]

We need a pot smoking image but I couldn't find one online.

We'll see how great Battier is when they ask him to go chase around Manu, ....tonight? :madrun