Which Would You Rather See Become Part Of Tony's Game?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

3-pointers or dunking? I would like him to add dunking because now that the entire league knows that he is one of the biggest threats in the paint with his layups he needs to add more flashiness with some dunkage. :smokin Although I would like to see him knock down treys too. He's our only guard who has a 3-point problem.

[ShoogarBear]

Neither.

More assists, and better FT% would be priorities above either (although the FTs had really improved by the latter half of the year).

If I had to choose between the two you listed, it would be three-pointers. It adds nothing substantial to his current game if he dunks or hits teardrops.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Neither.

More assists, and better FT% would be priorities above either (although the FTs had really improved by the latter half of the year).

If I had to choose between the two you listed, it would be three-pointers. It adds nothing substantial to his current game if he dunks or hits teardrops.
BINGO!

[Leetonidas]

If he could hit three pointers, Tony would be unguardable.

[SpursWillOwn]

i'll say leadership

[MaNuMaNiAc]

i'll say leadership
why leadership, the Spurs already have a leader

[shelshor]

More assists, and better FT% would be priorities above either (although the FTs had really improved by the latter half of the year).


Yeap

[JamStone]

Masculinity.

(No offense, French people)

[RC's Boss]

If he could hit three pointers, Tony would be unguardable.
Hell yeah. Imagine Tony w/ Steve Nash or Mike Bibby's shooting coupled w/ his penetrating abilities. Lay off him and he'll drop bombs, get up on him and he blows past you. Forget about him avg. a high asst. number. Not needed as long as you have a post player.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

If I could add anything to Tony's game it would be a very relaible mid range shot. If Tony could hit a 17 footer whenever he wanted to defenses would have to double him every possesion, because Tony can get around anyone in the league on one leg, having a shot outside of the key makes his assits go up, would increase the team 3pt shooting %, and would really free up Manu and Tim.

Manu could also spend more time on the peremiter should more open looks become avaliable, something he is going to need to do as he gets older anyway.

I think a deep shot for a point guard is pretty over-rated, that's more of a 2 or 3 guard trait, but you kind of want you PG to be a little bit closer to the basket where he can guide the offense a little more.

[Slinkyman]

more hot Girlfriends

[Zunni]

Overall improved shooting form (3 pointers, midrange, FTs) will open up his game. Dunks are only 2 points, and as stated above do nothing to improve his game or the Spurs fortunes.

[NorCal510]

3 Pointers

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

1. Assists
2. Assists
3. Assists
4. Three point shooting
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
99. Dunking - who cares if he dunks it or lays it in?

[ggoose25]

who cares if he dunks? stop acting like it wouldnt be cool to see tony jam a few a night. just because it still counts the same doesnt mean it doesnt have an impact on the game outside of the score.

but after saying that, id rather him hit add three point range to his game than dunking

[reydawg]

How about a jump shot?

[Spurologist]

answer the question, people.

Let me break it down for you.

Dunk = 2 points
3 pointer = 3 points

3>2.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

who cares if he dunks? stop acting like it wouldnt be cool to see tony jam a few a night. just because it still counts the same doesnt mean it doesnt have an impact on the game outside of the score.

but after saying that, id rather him hit add three point range to his game than dunking

I could give a flip about seeing Tony dunk a few. He's not going to all of a sudden become unguardable if teams are worried about him dunking it.

If he all of a sudden became a 43% three point shooter, that would have far greater impact on his play, opposing defenses, and our chances to win another title than piddly ass dunking.

[reydawg]

answer the question, people.

Let me break it down for you.

Dunk = 2 points
3 pointer = 3 points

3>2.

What's the expected value of a 3 point attempt?

Let me break it down for you.

Expected Value = sum over all possibile outcomes (probability of an outcome * value of that outcome)

[Kori Ellis]

If he all of a sudden became a 43% three point shooter, that would have far greater impact on his play, opposing defenses, and our chances to win another title than piddly ass dunking.

Only five guys in the league shot over 43% last year from 3. Y'all are crazy if that's what you are looking for from Tony.

38-39% would be a more reasonable goal within a couple years.

I think as long as he keeps steadily improving his jumpshot as he did toward the end of last year and maintains his focus on improving his allaround game, then he'll be great.

[gospursgojas]

Between a 3pt shot or dunking............3pt shot by far

But I would like to see tony shoot better freethrows more that anything

[reydawg]

I think as long as he keeps steadily improving his jumpshot

Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner.

[ggoose25]

ahf why are you such a hater?

do you even like wathching basketball? or do you just sit there and grumble the whole time?

[Kori Ellis]

But I would like to see tony shoot better freethrows more that anything

After the All-Star break he shot 76%FT. In the playoffs, I think he was over 80%. So hopefully he can continue from there.

[ChumpDumper]

who cares if he dunks? stop acting like it wouldnt be cool to see tony jam a few a night.I'd love to see him block three shots a game into the stands like Ben Wallace too, but that isn't happening either.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

ahf why are you such a hater?

do you even like wathching basketball? or do you just sit there and grumble the whole time?
WTF are you talking about?? AHF just said Tony improving his three point shooting would be far more profitable than merely dunking. Just because you think it would look "cool" doesn't mean shit. The dude isn't hating, he's right. Besides, Tony can already score in the paint at will, why would dunking be a priority???

[Kori Ellis]

WTF are you talking about?? AHF just said Tony improving his three point shooting would be far more profitable than merely dunking. Just because you think it would look "cool" doesn't mean shit. The dude isn't hating, he's right. Besides, Tony can already score in the paint at will, why would dunking be a priority???

I think he's referencing that AHF thinks Tony should shoot 43% from 3, which as I noted, is pretty unreasonable.

[spurschick]

He took some huge steps last season, so I anticipate his jumper will continue to improve. If I have to pick an area where I'd like to see some change, I agree with those that would like to see more assists. Last season is difficult to judge by in that category though. He pretty much had to carry the team in scoring for most of the season, so I can't fault him for not being the assist king.

[Kori Ellis]

I'd love to see him block three shots a game into the stands like Ben Wallace too, but that isn't happening either.

:lmao

[reydawg]

Tony can already score in the paint at will, why would dunking be a priority???

If he can "score in the paint at will" then might I ask why he didn't do it a couple more times in Games 3, 4, and 7? The French.

[Kori Ellis]

Last season is difficult to judge by in that category though. He pretty much had to carry the team in scoring for most of the season, so I can't fault him for not being the assist king.

True. When your coach is telling you to shoot the ball 20-25 times a game, averaging 6 or 7 assists is pretty good. :lol

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I think he's referencing that AHF thinks Tony should shoot 43% from 3, which as I noted, is pretty unreasonable.
that I agree with, %43 shooting is something Bruce or Brent should aspire to http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[Kori Ellis]

If he can "score in the paint at will" then might I ask why he didn't do it a couple more times in Games 3, 4, and 7? The French.

Umm.. Tony was injured badly in the Mavs series if you don't recall. He could barely walk and a few games wasn't even expected to play. And he still averaged 20ppg.

[ggoose25]

no ones saying its a priority. it would just be cool to see. hes acting like he would yawn if it happened. like two points is two points is two points. true enough. but i remember people going apeshit in this forum when tony dunked last time... because its fun to watch!

and it doesnt mean shit if you look cool, you're right. but i watch the game to be entertained and you are a sad sad man if you dont want to get up off your chair for an exciting game

[ShoogarBear]

I'd love to see him block three shots a game into the stands like Ben Wallace too, but that isn't happening either.Maybe if he did less Evatime, he'd have fresher legs for this.

[dirk4mvp]

Umm.. Tony was injured badly in the Mavs series if you don't recall. He could barely walk and a few games wasn't even expected to play. And he still averaged 20ppg.

:rolleyes

So was Timmy.




:angel

[Kori Ellis]

:rolleyes

So was Timmy.




:angel

Tim wasn't hurt in the Mavs series. :wtf Tony had a bad thigh bruise and a pulled groin, resulting in no lift.

Do you dumbfucks watch the games?

[ChumpDumper]

but i remember people going apeshit in this forum when tony dunked last time... because its fun to watch!It was funny.

Reminded me of Vinny Del Negro.

The only good that could come from his dunking more often is the opposing team might not be able to continue the game because they are all doubled over in laughter.

[ShoogarBear]

True. When your coach is telling you to shoot the ball 20-25 times a game, averaging 6 or 7 assists is pretty good. :lolIt's a chicken/egg thing. Tony's strength is scoring and always will be scoring, and Pop has admitted he's not going to make him pass-first.

I think if Tony worked some more on his court awareness and the coaching staff worked a little more into taking full advantage of the times he's drving the lane and drawing three guys on him, he could average 1-2 more assists a game.

[dirk4mvp]

Tim wasn't hurt in the Mavs series. :wtf Tony had a bad thigh bruise and a pulled groin, resulting in no lift.

Do you dumbfucks watch the games?


He was "supposed" to be hurt. :rolleyes

I watched the games, and I saw the Mavs you yall's asses :fro :smokin

[Kori Ellis]

He was "supposed" to be hurt. :rolleyes

I watched the games, and I saw the Mavs you yall's asses :fro :smokin

Who was supposed to be hurt?

Your ignorance is showing.

[ChumpDumper]

Once again, mavfan flies the flag of ignorance.

[ShoogarBear]

I'm starting to see some peoples' point.

Just think, the Spurs-Mavs series might have actually been exciting if Tony had thrown down a few dunks.

[ShoogarBear]

Once again, mavfan flies the flag of ignorance.More like it's tattooed onto his tongue.

[Kori Ellis]

It's a chicken/egg thing. Tony's strength is scoring and always will be scoring, and Pop has admitted he's not going to make him pass-first.

I think if Tony worked some more on his court awareness and the coaching staff worked a little more into taking full advantage of the times he's drving the lane and drawing three guys on him, he could average 1-2 more assists a game.

That's true. Last year was a weird circumstance, which as Spurschick alluded to, didn't help Tony's development in the assist area. With Manu/Tim banged up all year, Tony was just instructed to score more points than the other team.

Hopefully this season will be different. I'd like to see Tony average 18/8 while improving his jumpshot.

[ShoogarBear]

That's true. Last year was a weird circumstance, which as Spurschick alluded to, didn't help Tony's development in the assist area. With Manu/Tim banged up all year, Tony was just instructed to score more points than the other team.Oh, yeah, if Tim and Manu are going to be banged up all year, screw the assists and get the wins any way you can.

[Kori Ellis]

Now that Tony's finger is broken, maybe he is in the gym doing left handed layups all day. :spin

[spurschick]

I watched the games, and I saw the Mavs you yall's asses :fro :smokin

7 games and overtime? Yeah, that's handing us our asses alright. Does that mean that Miami handed it to you worse since you only took them to 6 games?

[spurschick]

Now that Tony's finger is broken, maybe he is in the gym doing left handed layups all day. :spin

On the bright side, Eva has a date for tonight. I assume she's going even though the show wasn't nominated?

[Kori Ellis]

7 games and overtime? Yeah, that's handing us our asses alright. Does that mean that Miami handed it to you worse since you only took them to 6 games?

Just ignore him. He's like 12 years old, I'm sure he wasn't allowed to stay up late and watch the games.

[spurschick]

Just ignore him. He's like 12 years old, I'm sure he wasn't allowed to stay up late and watch the games.

Ah - should these minors be given a wristband or something when they join Spurstalk so that we know not to contribute to their delinquency?

[Que Gee]

I think if Tony worked some more on his court awareness and the coaching staff worked a little more into taking full advantage of the times he's drving the lane and drawing three guys on him, he could average 1-2 more assists a game.

YES, YES, YES....SOMEONE IS PAYING ATTENTION...ALTHOUGH HE SHOULD GET AT LEAST 2 TO 3 MORE APG.

[Nikos]

1. More assists and less turnovers
2. 3 Point Shooting
3. Getting to the FT Line and hitting at least 75%

Slightly improving each of these areas every year would make him a perenial all star player. But I doubt he improves all of these things at once each season. I will settle for a drastic change in #1, and hopefully he improves either #2 or #3.

[Rick Von Braun]

1. improve court vision and learn where your teammates are at all times
2. learn how to use long passes on the break instead of dribbiling the ball up court
3. learn how to use the bounce pass as a weapon in the half court
4. hit the teammates cutting to the basket from time to time
5. improve jumpshot from 17-20ft (both technique and consistency)
6. improve jumpshot from behind the arc

[TDMVPDPOY]

pass it to fukn ginoboli when he asks for it!!!!

[Spurologist]

What's the expected value of a 3 point attempt?

Let me break it down for you.

Expected Value = sum over all possibile outcomes (probability of an outcome * value of that outcome)

Read the question please before making outlandish arguements that can render one in a state "Moronic Idiocy"

Which Would You Rather See Become Part Of Tony's Game? Dunks? 3 pt Shooting? That is the question.

If 3 pt shooting is part of his game, the expected value is pretty damn good.

Let me break it down for you.

Part of his game = implying that he is good at it.

TP's 3 pt shooting can be deadly. I can remember when in his first couple of years, he kept shooting despite his low 3 pt percentage. It was a joy to see when he was on fire from downtown. I can only imagine what would happen if he could hit that shot with regularity. The spurs assists total would increase because TP is often standing alone because his teammates know that he doesn't have that kind of range

[Extra Stout]

no ones saying its a priority. it would just be cool to see. hes acting like he would yawn if it happened. like two points is two points is two points. true enough. but i remember people going apeshit in this forum when tony dunked last time... because its fun to watch!

and it doesnt mean shit if you look cool, you're right. but i watch the game to be entertained and you are a sad sad man if you dont want to get up off your chair for an exciting game
Teams won't change their defense if Tony dunks more, because he is already one of the best finishers in the league.

Teams will have to change their defense if Tony becomes a more consistent 3-point shooter, or even a more consistent midrange shooter. They would have to double-team him because one man alone would not be able to take away both his drive and his jumper.

Double-teaming Tony would mean that other Spurs have more and better opportunities to score over the course of games. Team FG% would improve. The Spurs would score more points over the same number of possessions. This would translate into more wins, and improved odds of winning championships.

Adding dunking to his repertoire does none of this. I prefer the lasting satisfaction of more championships to the fleeting excitement of a dunk now and then, just as I would rather save my money for a nice long vacation than to blow it all on beer and hookers.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i would like to see him sign up to that italian soccer trainin program where they teach you how to flop properly, i just dont like the way he flops after every missed layup.

[Extra Stout]

i would like to see him sign up to that italian soccer trainin program where they teach you how to flop properly, i just dont like the way he flops after every missed layup.
You'd think, being French and all, that he'd be good at head-butting.

[TDMVPDPOY]

You'd think, being French and all, that he'd be good at head-butting.

with that big head of his, yes

[Spurologist]

You'd think, being French and all, that he'd be good at head-butting.

:lol

Zidane is still legend and top 5 on my greatest footballers list

[MarkCuban]

:ttiwwp:

[ALVAREZ6]

3-pointers.

3 pointers would make him more unguardable than he already is, and the "dunking" addition wouldn't change that factor much, his speed and quickness already does that. Besides, as someone already said, 3 points are better than 2.

I don't think either are realistic though. Tony is a very inconsistent shooter, even though his jumper is getting better, it really imporved last season. But I don't know if he will be able to consistently knock down threes. Then you have the dunking part...we all know Tony is very athletic and that he can dunk, he has before in games...but with his height, the only time he's gonna be able to dunk is very occasionally on fast breaks where there is no defender close to him at all, if he still has enough energy left to do it. I don't think Tony is gonna start posterizing people Lebron or D-Wade style anytime soon.

[spurs=bling]

3-pointers.

[SequSpur]

I would like to see Parker continue what he is doing and hopefully Ginobili will remember where his brain is.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

no ones saying its a priority. it would just be cool to see. hes acting like he would yawn if it happened. like two points is two points is two points. true enough. but i remember people going apeshit in this forum when tony dunked last time... because its fun to watch!

and it doesnt mean shit if you look cool, you're right. but i watch the game to be entertained and you are a sad sad man if you dont want to get up off your chair for an exciting game


I wouldn't yawn if it happened. Yeah, it's exciting to see someone from your team dunk it. But not as cool as celebrating a world championship. And we're a lot more likely to be doing that if Tony starts stroking the three consistently than if he can throw it down once a game to make some goober on an internet forum all happy.

Kori, yeah the 43% shooting is a little far fetched, but the point was Tony developing a three ball >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dunking.

[MrChug]

Easy. I'd like to DIRECTLY answer your question but I can't stand that your options are so unimportant that I say NEITHER is important.

#1. A consistant midrange jumper off the pick. His FG% would skyrocket to fuckin 65% if he could present the threat of fighting thru the pick. He'd bullet thru defenses like MrChug at a nightclub runnin thru the drunk bitches.
#2. Solid freethrow %. Why he gets fouled as consistently as he does is because the gaywad frenchie never makes them pay for it. (NO OFFENSE FRENCH PEOPLE...come to think of it fuck off, grow some balls and learn what having nadz are all about).
#3. See above. GROW SOME CLUTCH. That's right...I said it. The reason all the TP fans were coming to me all season with the "Are you a believer now???" shit? And then all owed me about total of $3200 bucks after the "he'll choke inthis series" bets cashed in is why I'm STILL a Bibby>Parker dude. Sorry. Clutch? Bibby. Shot? Bibby. Free throws? Bibby.

Case closed.

[Kori Ellis]

the "he'll choke inthis series" bets cashed in is why I'm STILL a Bibby>Parker dude. Sorry. Clutch? Bibby. Shot? Bibby. Free throws? Bibby.

SA-Sac Series

TP 22 ppg, 51%FG, 89%FT

Bibby 16ppg, 35%FG, 90%FT

Come again?

[Kori Ellis]

Bibby must have forgot to bring his clutch shooting to Round 1.

But hell yeah, you are right. He beat Parker's ass from the freethrow line -- 90>89.

[sabar]

Mid-range jumper by far. I hate it when he lobs one up and it just clanks off. He has had significant FT% improvement, it doesn't really need much more.

[Kori Ellis]

Mr.Chug -- By the way, I'm not disputing that Tony needs to improve his jumpshot by my last two posts. I just think your Bibby-love is unfounded.

I know you are going to point out that you think Tony sucked in the Mavs series, not the Kings series. And as I've said in countless threads, averaging 20 ppg on badly injured thighs and a pulled groin in the Mavs series isn't that bad.

Anyway, I think Tony's freethrow form has improved alot and he's been steady from the line since the A-S break onward. If he gets a consistent mid-range jumpshot (it's improved in form but it's not consistent yet), then he'll be incredible.

I hope Duncan and Manu can stay healthy this year so Tony doesn't have to carry the load and we can see how he develops in regards to court vision and awareness.

[ATX Spur]

Okay, how about this? Tony should work on adding dunking from the 3-pt line to his game. Then everyone agrees.

[MrChug]

Mr.Chug -- By the way, I'm not disputing that Tony needs to improve his jumpshot by my last two posts. I just think your Bibby-love is unfounded.

I know you are going to point out that you think Tony sucked in the Mavs series, not the Kings series. And as I've said in countless threads, averaging 20 ppg on badly injured thighs and a pulled groin in the Mavs series isn't that bad.

More than anything Kori, my argument is not a series related frustration. Let this be said. "MRCHUG IS NOT A TP FAN" period. I never have been. My best friend in the world is. He...in my humble opinion is an idiot. Why? Because he's never contributed as a "big 3" player WHEN IT COUNTS the way that anyone "big" has. Manu, TP, and Tim...that's the way you've always heard it. Then it becomes "the big 2" this year...and we lose. I'm not a fan...I'm reapeating myself aren't I??? OOOoops. Sorry. All I can say is that in the Spurs system I've always believed a wiley, court-savvy jumpshooter would outweigh a kick-out type of penetrator easily. The pick-n-roll is an easy game IF YOU CAN SHOOT. Tony can..but only at about a 35 percent clip. Not good enough. Bibby is a master. I'm not making a Kings>Spurs argument...heeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllll nooo. I'm just pissed that every time I'm ready to believe in TP, he fails us cuz he has no balls. Some of us focus...others fold, he folds. Hence, the lack of respect.

[orhe]

id like to see him hit jump shots :D not those i got in a super super streak...

let me see... as long as he's open i hope he hits them...

[jmard5]

A tear drop > dunking. A dunk is more blockable than a tear drop. Regardless, I want Tony to have a good mid-range jump shot. The 3 point ability can be added later since the Spurs have good 3 point shooters where Tony can pass during dribble penetration.

Remember, the triple threat position? Adding a reliable jump shot can make Tony an unguardable player: assist, jump shot or a teardrop.

[ChumpDumper]

Let this be said. "MRCHUG IS NOT A TP FAN" period. I never have been. My best friend in the world is. He...in my humble opinion is an idiot. Why? Because he's never contributed as a "big 3" player WHEN IT COUNTS the way that anyone "big" has.Like Bibby?

:lmao

[Obstructed_View]

Free throws in the clutch. Assists.

Dunking :rolleyes

[George Gervin's Afro]

couple of things.


DON'T FORCE A BAD SHOT WHEN YOU ARE PLAYING 1 ON 5. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A LANE PASS THE BALL. DON'T DRIBBLE THE SHOT CLOCK DOWN TO 5 SECONDS AND THEN FORCE UP AN OFF BALANCE 22 FT JUMP SHOT.

[Sway]

Neither.

More assists, and better FT% would be priorities above either (although the FTs had really improved by the latter half of the year).



:tu :tu

[nkdlunch]

1 of the following:

1. develop a consistent 3pt shot
2. get your teammates involved

[ShoogarBear]

couple of things.


DON'T FORCE A BAD SHOT WHEN YOU ARE PLAYING 1 ON 5. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A LANE PASS THE BALL. DON'T DRIBBLE THE SHOT CLOCK DOWN TO 5 SECONDS AND THEN FORCE UP AN OFF BALANCE 22 FT JUMP SHOT.

Well, some of this blame for this I place on the coaching.

When TP drives, he 95% of the time he ends up doing one of two things:
1. Putting up the shot
2. Kicking it out to somebody standing around the perimeter

I've already ranted enough times during the season about how, when you have a player who can break down a defense and usually make one or two players rotate over, that's when you need to send cutters down the seams to the hoop.

The Spurs rarely do this. Some have argued they don't have the personnel to do that. I guess I don't buy it. You don't have to be Shawn Marion to be able to break to the hoop and receive a pass when a lane opens up.

The other reason may be that the Spurs actually are pretty sophisticated in their use of multiple picks and rubs to get Tony free down the lane. To me, those are the ideal guys to be on the receiving end of passes, but maybe the coaches feel otherwise.

[spurschick]

Tony and Eva at the Emmys

http://www.spurschick.com/06emmys/01.jpg

http://www.spurschick.com/06emmys/02.jpg

[Kori Ellis]

Bad dress but she still looks pretty, as always.

[Spurologist]

More than anything Kori, my argument is not a series related frustration. Let this be said. "MRCHUG IS NOT A TP FAN" period. I never have been. My best friend in the world is. He...in my humble opinion is an idiot. Why? Because he's never contributed as a "big 3" player WHEN IT COUNTS the way that anyone "big" has. Manu, TP, and Tim...that's the way you've always heard it. Then it becomes "the big 2" this year...and we lose. I'm not a fan...I'm reapeating myself aren't I??? OOOoops. Sorry. All I can say is that in the Spurs system I've always believed a wiley, court-savvy jumpshooter would outweigh a kick-out type of penetrator easily. The pick-n-roll is an easy game IF YOU CAN SHOOT. Tony can..but only at about a 35 percent clip. Not good enough. Bibby is a master. I'm not making a Kings>Spurs argument...heeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllll nooo. I'm just pissed that every time I'm ready to believe in TP, he fails us cuz he has no balls. Some of us focus...others fold, he folds. Hence, the lack of respect.

:lol

To sum up your arguement is "I am not a tp fan" and anyone who does is an idiot because:

1. tp can't shoot
2. He's not clutch

This means you are narrow-minded. TP is still a young player. Yeah, it's not a secret that tp's jumper is inconsistent, but he has 2 rings. He was the leader in field goal percentage in the ENTIRE NBA for a good part of the season and has kept it high in the playoffs. His FT percentage actually increased in the playoffs. He is consistently working on in and the full effect of Chip's work with him has yet to be shown.

The fact that you keep bringing Bibby up is hilarious. Do you want the Spurs to trade tp for Bibby. Yes Bibby has a nice jumpshop and was clutch when the kings played the fakers in the WCF. BUT he has slowly faded each year. He has lost a step and his fg % has declined each year and I can't remember the last time he has hit a clutch shot after the fakers series in I think was 02. Oh yeah he also choked against the spurs last year.

A reason why tp is not "clutch" is because he doesn't take the clutch shots. Tim and Manu do. There are times where he has had miscues in clutch spots (jumpshooting, fts) but I can say the same for the amount of clutch plays he has made. They just go unrecognized because people expect him to be "god" every night. TP is just like any other player who misses occassional shots and get turnovers etc.

I wonder if you were saying the same things about Manu when he was clearly struggling on the field and making bone head plays. Not getting the ball in bounds and fouling the choker with a 3 pt lead are some examples. However you look at it TP has been steady at the PG position and was a HUGE reason why the spurs held on to the #1 spot in the WC. Relax and grow to know that tp will be one of the greatest pgs in Spurs History. PERIOD.

[tlongII]

I would like to see more turnovers and a lower percentage on those "teardrop" shots.