Katrina

[johnsmith]

This article was taken off the Steve Czaban website. For those of you that don't know, Czabe has a nationally syndicated sports talk show on the radio every morning based out of Washington DC. I love this article, the sarcasm button works on his computer, why can't it work on mine? Anyway, here it is, what do you guys think:

"It didn’t take a genius to be able to predict the tone and coverage of the Hurricane Katrina anniversary by most of the “Drive By” liberal media.

I said it would go something like this.

(Condensed talking point) “It’s all President Bush’s fault, because he’s STUPID, and HATES black people.”

Sure enough, here it comes. Today on the Today Show, Matt Lauer has Mike Brown on the set. Hmm, I thought? That’s odd. He was the guy everybody HATED a year ago! Why would they give him a forum?

Oh, I get it. So he can throw PRESIDENT BUSH UNDER THE BUS!

Which is exactly what he did.

The Washington Post ran a headline front page article: “President and His Critics Mark Katrina Anniversary.”

Ah yes, never forget those critics. Lest anyone forget, how much this was Bush’s fault. We’ll put it right there in the headline.

Look, let’s be honest okay?

New Orleans was a very clean, politically honest, highly efficient city before Katrina.

The levee boards were NOT comprised of political grifters and scam artists.

Everybody wanted the levees to be built higher.

Nobody EVER thought a hurricane would EVER do this.

Tens of thousands of residents were NEVER told to leave the city, it all caught them by surprise.

The Superdome should have had temporary hot showers, a temporary kitchen, full-sized beds, wi-fi hotspots, video games, daycare, and senior activities set up in 4 days notice to accommodate a crowd of 40,000 plus refugees for a week.

The argument that “if Geraldo could get into New Orleans in a day, why couldn’t the buses” is an excellent point. Because dropping Geraldo, his mustache wax, a camera man, and a producer into the city, is no different than getting 500-plus fully gassed up buses with certified drivers and a place to put those 20,000 homeless refugees.

Mayor Ray Nagin did not leave an entire fleet of school buses sitting in a flooded parking lot. That photo you saw was doctored.

Governor Kathleen Blanco was in complete command. She only cried to show how much she cared about the devastation. Once the cameras were off, she went right back to kicking ass and taking names.

The New Orleans Police Department really shined. It was perhaps their finest hour.

The media thoroughly vetted the accuracy of every one of their sensational stories they ran with, like the ones about families having to eat floating corpses, or serial gang-rapes in the back of the Convention Center.

The fact that the ENTIRE city hasn’t been TOTALLY re-built after ONE FULL YEAR is an outrage, and a national disgrace. The tsunami victims had their straw huts back up and running in about 6 months.

Global warming will continue to produce more of these monster storms if we don’t DO SOMETHING right away. It’s a proven fact that smokestacks cause hurricanes, didn’t you see the movie?

I mean come on people! You know all this is true. And I know all this is true. Stop hiding behind your lame excuses! It’s all Bush’s fault, and oh by the way, he’s stupid, and hates black people."

[101A]

Quote from an Army Corp rescuer last night on the NOVA "1 year later" show:

"I couldn't believe over 100,000 people stayed!"

Watching the program last night it was obvious - THAT was the biggest problem. Simply TOO many idiots hung around. The fact that less than 1% of them died is a miracle, and a testament to the rescue operations.

[johnsmith]

Quote from an Army Corp rescuer last night on the NOVA "1 year later" show:

"I couldn't believe over 100,000 people stayed!"

Watching the program last night it was obvious - THAT was the biggest problem. Simply TOO many idiots hung around. The fact that less than 1% of them died is a miracle, and a testament to the rescue operations.

Furthermore, I watched a 20/20 special the other day about the people that obviously couldn't get out because they were in the hospital. The rescuers were forced to make split decisions on who should go and who should stay through the use of a helicopter. The interviewer was damn near accusing these guys of making bad decisions and it seemed like she was trying to get them to say they made some mistakes. Fuck, I'd like to see that interviewer, or any of us for that matter forced into a situation where we had to decide on what people live and what people die (maybe). I think the rescuers last year did a unreal job that I wouldn't want to have to do in a million years. I personally thank God that there are people like that out there. Now unfortunately, the only thing we will hear about is who's fault it was that it happened.

[101A]

Furthermore, I watched a 20/20 special the other day about the people that obviously couldn't get out because they were in the hospital. The rescuers were forced to make split decisions on who should go and who should stay through the use of a helicopter. The interviewer was damn near accusing these guys of making bad decisions and it seemed like she was trying to get them to say they made some mistakes. Fuck, I'd like to see that interviewer, or any of us for that matter forced into a situation where we had to decide on what people live and what people die (maybe). I think the rescuers last year did a unreal job that I wouldn't want to have to do in a million years. I personally thank God that there are people like that out there. Now unfortunately, the only thing we will hear about is who's fault it was that it happened.


I saw the same show; felt VERY sorry for the accusations being thrown at the nurses/docs.

[johnsmith]

of course, in the days leading up to the hurricane, the suggestion that some of the people that stayed should WALK out of the city was met with ... skepticism

So what should the solution have been to get those people out of the city?

[johnsmith]

it's pretty simple -- start leaving a day or two earlier.

Ok, then you are in agreement that they should have had the foresight to get out of town. I agree with you then. I thought you meant that someone should have shipped them all out, like the government for instance. Never mind.

[Hook Dem]

There comes a time when all individuals must take responsibility for their own safety. I realize that there were some legitimate excuses for not leaving but the main excuse was " I've never left before and I ain't gonna do it this time." How many times had that city dodged the bullet before? They just didn't take it seriously till it was too late. End of story!

[FromWayDowntown]

Quote from an Army Corp rescuer last night on the NOVA "1 year later" show:

"I couldn't believe over 100,000 people stayed!"

Watching the program last night it was obvious - THAT was the biggest problem. Simply TOO many idiots hung around. The fact that less than 1% of them died is a miracle, and a testament to the rescue operations.

That's not a terribly remarkable figure when you understand that an LSU study ("Hurricane Pam") done a couple of years before Katrina showed more than 100,000 people (http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/hurricane-pam.htm) living in the Greater New Orleans metropolitan area (Metro NOLA population was about 1.3 million before Katrina) did not have independent means of transportation to leave the city in the event of a mandatory evacuation:


According to the Pam scenario, only a third of the population would leave New Orleans before the storm hit. This was a recognition of the city's poor population, with upwards of 100,000 living in households in which no one owns a car.

Most of us assume that it would be simply a matter of deciding whether or not to heed an evacuation order. For some (almost 10% of the population of New Orleans) the ability to heed that order requires that they get some help -- maybe the public transportation that they've relied upon for most or all of their lives, or perhaps, hoping that they're not too late in calling one of the few friends who has a car and might have a little bit of extra space to squeeze in one more evacuee.

City and State leaders did a very poor job of providing public means to aid in the evacuation of the large number of people they knew would be otherwise unable to leave New Orleans, particularly given the late hour at which evacuations were ordered.

I don't know that a person is an "idiot" if he or she is too poor to own a car. The poverty issues in New Orleans are still another facet of Katrina that warrants exploration in other contexts. Katrina revealed what a lot of people had long known about that city -- that the chasm between wealthy and poor was immense and not closing.

[101A]

That's not a terribly remarkable figure when you understand that an LSU study ("Hurricane Pam") done a couple of years before Katrina showed more than 100,000 people (http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/hurricane-pam.htm) living in the Greater New Orleans metropolitan area did not have independent means of transportation to leave the city in the event of a mandatory evacuation:



Most of us assume that it would be simply a matter of deciding whether or not to heed an evacuation order. For some, the ability to heed that order requires that they get some help -- maybe the public transportation that they've relied upon for most or all of their lives, or perhaps, hoping that they're not too late in calling one of the few friends who has a car and might have a little bit of extra space to squeeze in one more evacuee.

City and State leaders did a very poor job of providing public means to aid in the evacuation of the large number of people they knew would be otherwise unable to leave New Orleans, particularly given the late hour at which evacuations were ordered.

I don't know that a person is an "idiot" if he or she is too poor to own a car. The poverty issues in New Orleans are still another facet of Katrina that warrants exploration in other contexts. Katrina revealed what a lot of people had long known about that city -- that the chasm between wealthy and poor was immense and not closing.


There you go, ruining a perfectly good knee-jerk thread.

Buses should have been running into neighbohoods, bull-horns blaring 24/7 leading up to that thing. After the storm, more messages needed to get out that the levees had breached and the water was rising (apparently caught people in their sleep the night after).

Although any level of authority COULD have provided the measures, I tend to side with those who put the blame more at the local or state level for not more effectively handling the evacuation.

The slow response of FEMA afterwards was nothing to write home about, but there never should have been THAT MANY people to deal with.

[FromWayDowntown]

Buses should have been running into neighbohoods, bull-horns blaring 24/7 leading up to that thing. After the storm, more messages needed to get out that the levees had breached and the water was rising (apparently caught people in their sleep the night after).

That certainly would seem to have been one solution. I think it's particularly appalling that nothing even resembling that plan was put into action as Katrina approached, given the facts revealed by the Pam study.


Although any level of authority COULD have provided the measures, I tend to side with those who put the blame more at the local or state level for not more effectively handling the evacuation.

The slow response of FEMA afterwards was nothing to write home about, but there never should have been THAT MANY people to deal with.

I don't think there's any level of government that doesn't share some part of the blame for the situation that has existed in New Orleans for the last year. In the days before the storm, the onus was clearly on the state and local officials to make adequate arrangements and give sufficient notice to permit timely evacution of however many wished to leave the city. Clearly, there's little the local or state governments could do to protect those who had the means to leave but chose not to. But for those who wished to find refuge from the storm (i.e., those who found themselves at the Superdome and the Convention Center before Katrina hit), it's incomprehensible that there was no infrastructure to allow evacuation.

The response of FEMA is becoming more understandable in light of the revelations that the Department of Homeland Security was largely unimpressed with the magnitude of the problem and slow to cut through red-tape to permit FEMA to respond adequately to the situation that grew geometrically worse over time.

[boutons_]

Katrina didn't actually hit NO. The much worse Katrina wind and water damage was done to the east in MS.

In a way, "les Nouvelle Orleaneais" who decided to stay, included the rich ones on high ground, actually dodged the hurricane bullet, again. ie, they rolled the dice and won. What the low-landers got hit and killed with with was sub-standard Army civil engineering that was not tested to Category 3, and which failed after the storm passed.

So do subsistence-level black residents, many employed poorly or not at all, and many who don't trust The Man's weatherman, of the low-lying areas:

1) bet, again, that the storm will not proably not be so bad and stay in their low-cost homes (the devil they know, and are affording). Was the Army Corps of Engineers, Nagin, FEMA etc running around screaming to these people that the levees were going to break? Or did they silently toe the dubya/FEMA line that "nobody foresaw the levees breaking"

or,

2) do they hop in their vehicules and drive for unknown 100s of (gas)miles to a hotel and start racking up absolutely certain hotel+food bills of at least $100+/day for an unknown number of days (the devil they don't know and probably can't afford), while leaving their (probably uninsured) homes unguarded for looters?

From a comfortable, middle-class distance of several 100 miles, it's so easy to call the stayers stupid. But "walk a mile in their shoes" and see if you make the same decision they did.

[johnsmith]

From a comfortable, middle-class distance of several 100 miles, it's so easy to call the stayers stupid. But "walk a mile in their shoes" and see if you make the same decision they did.

I think if you are going to criticize you should indeed walk a mile in their shoes, that way you'll be a mile away from them, plus you'll have their shoes.

[boutons_]

"johnsmith"

plonk!

[johnsmith]

"johnsmith"

plonk!

What the hell does plonk mean?

[Phenomanul]

What the hell does plonk mean?


I think he was equating you with a piece of turd as it falls in the toilet.

Onomatopoeia


I don't know you enough to say if I agree or disagree... but I do believe that's what Señor boutons_ was inferring.

[johnsmith]

I think he was equating you with a piece of turd as it falls in the toilet.

Onomatopoeia


I don't know you enough to say if I agree or disagree... but I do believe that's what Señor boutons_ was inferring.

Ahh, thank you for the information. So what you are telling me is that this little boutons character is also famous for being a gigantic douche-bag. I see.

[Obstructed_View]

What the hell does plonk mean?
He put you on ignore. He doesn't like people he can't shout down or call a nazi or a repug.

[johnsmith]

He put you on ignore. He doesn't like people he can't shout down or call a nazi or a repug.

Oh, so he's kind of like a dictator. Gotcha, I'll remember that from here on out. Very open minded boutons, for shame, for shame.

[johnsmith]

I think if you are going to criticize you should indeed walk a mile in their shoes, that way you'll be a mile away from them, plus you'll have their shoes.


Plus, what's not to like about this quote, it's pure magic?

[DarkReign]

Plus, what's not to like about this quote, it's pure magic?

Especially when quoted by yourself!! It just gets better!!! More please!!

[johnsmith]

Especially when quoted by yourself!! It just gets better!!! More please!!

That was the point jackass. I see reading comprehension isn't one of your stronger skills. Seriously, are you up to a seventh level knight yet Frodo?

[DarkReign]

That was the point jackass. I see reading comprehension isn't one of your stronger skills. Seriously, are you up to a seventh level knight yet Frodo?

Gtown?

[101A]

That was the point jackass. I see reading comprehension isn't one of your stronger skills. Seriously, are you up to a seventh level knight yet Frodo?

I'm old, but is that a Dungeons and Dragons reference? Are you serious?

[johnsmith]

Gtown?

I'm sorry, I don't speak gigantic nerd, what are you talking about?

[Mr. Peabody]

I'm sorry, I don't speak gigantic nerd, what are you talking about?


He's referring to another poster who is known for both his lack of coherency and his frequent childish attacks on other posters.

I'm fairly certain you are not him, because if you were, the phrase "gigantic nerd" would be misspelled.

[johnsmith]

He's referring to another poster who is known for both his lack of coherency and his frequent childish attacks on other posters.

I'm fairly certain you are not him, because if you were, the phrase "gigantic nerd" would be misspelled.


Thank you sir.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, I can't believe how the liberal media is out there taking advantadge of the anniversary. I'm so glad our noble president passed up this opportunity for a photo op...


Oh...

Wait...

[boutons_]

The first anniversary of a huge natural disaster compounded by stunning human fuckups, in real-time shown round the world as the Repugs showed how they can fuckup the most powerful country in the history of universe, is a worthy candidate for a 1st anniversary celebration. It's no surprise that even Fox is making a big deal of how their Repugs fucked it up.

What is self-condemning is dubya showing up to spin NO/FEMA disaster in his favor.

A great comment I heard this week was that when you are an anti-government conservative in power, your own willful incompetence in governing proves your ideology that government is bad.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, I can't believe how the liberal media is out there taking advantadge of the anniversary. I'm so glad our noble president passed up this opportunity for a photo op...


Oh...

Wait...
What would you have said if he hadn't been there?

[Phenomanul]

What would you have said if he hadn't been there?


Apparently nothing they do will ever be right....

[ChumpDumper]

At least he was on the ground this time.

[Obstructed_View]

At least he was on the ground this time.
Yeah, the fucker should have been helping the NOPD catch looters. :lol

[boutons_]

"Apparently nothing they do will ever be right"

'boa, it looks like you're finally beginning to see the light (at least on dubya).

[Crookshanks]

I'm so tired of hearing about the Katrina aftermath in New Orleans. It wasn't even the hardest hit area. The Mississippi gulf coast was devastated - whole towns were completely wiped out. But we don't hear or see much media coverage about Mississippi.

I saw a segment on the 700 Club the other night about the Mississippi gulf coast and they are recovering much better than New Orleans. The Mayor of Gulfport said their economy is booming and the tax base is growing. In Biloxi, almost all of the casinos have been rebuilt and are open for business. Over 90% of the debris has been cleared and people are rebuilding. They showed volunteers from just one Church group that have rebuilt 30 homes in the last year! The biggest obstacle they are facing is the delay in getting insurance money.

The difference between New Orleans and Mississippi? Republican leadership instead of Democratic!

I heard on the news this morning that there is a group that is suing FEMA to stop them from evicting Katrina evacuees. These are people who have been getting free housing for a year! Most of these people have been sucking on the govt tit all their lives and are too lazy to take care of themselves - it's rather disgusting!

[ChumpDumper]

Gotta love the ignorant dumbasses who still can't understand the scope of this disaster in New Orleans and get all their news from Pat Robertson.

[01Snake]

Gotta love the ignorant dumbasses who still can't understand the scope of this disaster in New Orleans and get all their news from Pat Robertson.

Have you spent time down there Champ? Stop talking out of your ass if you haven't. I've been in and out of there for months at a time. Spend some time there before calling other peoples points of view dumb.

[ChumpDumper]

Have you spent time down there Champ? Stop talking out of your ass if you haven't. I've been in and out of there for months at a time. Spend some time there before calling other peoples points of view dumb.Are you Crookshanks?

You are dumb if you can't figure out who I was talking to.

In fact this is your first post in this thread, so you are a complete dumbass for thinking I'm talking to you.

[01Snake]

Are you Crookshanks?

You are dumb if you can't figure out who I was talking to.

In fact this is your first post in this thread, so you are a complete dumbass for thinking I'm talking to you.

You fucking idiot..where did I say you were talking to me? I was referring to your post in response the the post DIRECTLY above your's.

[ChumpDumper]

You fucking idiot..where did I say you were talking to me? I was referring to your post in response the the post DIRECTLY above your's.So what is your point, dumbass? Are you saying I'm overestimating the damage in NOLA?

[Crookshanks]

Thank you Snake! And Chump - if you wouldn't always jump to conclusions, you might learn something.

The 700 Club had reporters on the scene in Mississippi and they interviewed lots of regular people - average people who had lost almost everything, but are rebuilding and the poor widows who are very thankful to the church groups who rebuilt their homes - at no cost to them!!

Oh and BTW - the 700 Club has had a whole contingent of volunteers on the ground in New Orleans for the past year - helping out wherever they could. I would hazard a guess that they have done far more for the people of New Orleans than any govt agency!

Quit being so hostile to religious organizations!

[ChumpDumper]

I'm glad they helped and it's great they have a TV show to pat themselves on the back while pushing their political agenda.

[01Snake]

So what is your point, dumbass? Are you saying I'm overestimating the damage in NOLA?


You're not underestimating the damage but I'm disagreeing with you calling the other guy an idiot for posting what he did. Why is he an idiot? What the fuck do you know about whats going on down there other than what you see on TV?

[Crookshanks]

They didn't do it to pat themselves on the back. Every other news channel was doing reports on Katrina - why not the 700 Club? Anyway, the segment on Mississippi didn't have ANYTHING to do with the 700 Club - they were just reporting on what others were doing. And the information about the volunteers in New Orleans was mentioned in passing, not as part of the reporter's interview.

[01Snake]

I'm glad they helped and it's great they have a TV show to pat themselves on the back while pushing their political agenda.

Speaking of political agendas, did anyone see Spike Lee's Katrina documentary (if you can call it that) on HBO last night?

[ChumpDumper]

Because all shanks wants to do is parrot the talking points she saw on tv yesterday.
What the fuck do you know about whats going on down there other than what you see on TV? Since you said I'm right about the damage it looks like I do know something, apparently. Tell me what I need to know since you know everything that's going on there.

[ChumpDumper]

Speaking of political agendas, did anyone see Spike Lee's Katrina documentary (if you can call it that) on HBO last night?Nope.

Don't plan to.

[ChumpDumper]

They didn't do it to pat themselves on the back. Every other news channel was doing reports on Katrina - why not the 700 Club?They were also patting themselves on the back. It was pretty sickening.
Anyway, the segment on Mississippi didn't have ANYTHING to do with the 700 Club - they were just reporting on what others were doing. And the information about the volunteers in New Orleans was mentioned in passing, not as part of the reporter's interview.I've seen enough of the 700 Club to know how it works.

[01Snake]

Because all shanks wants to do is parrot the talking points she saw on tv yesterday. Since you said I'm right about the damage it looks like I do know something, apparently. Tell me what I need to know since you know everything that's going on there.

What were you implying with the following:


Gotta love the ignorant dumbasses who still can't understand the scope of this disaster in New Orleans and get all their news from Pat Robertson.

Were you calling the poster a dumbass for the post itself or the fact that he/she was referring to a segment on the 700 Club?

[ChumpDumper]

The sentence is pretty clear.

Tell me what I need to know.

[01Snake]

The sentence is pretty clear.

Tell me what I need to know.

Typical.
:rolleyes

[ChumpDumper]

Typical?

What part of the sentence did you not understand? I implied shanks is a dumbass for underestimating the damage in NOLA and getting "news" from the 700 Club.

Where are you getting stuck?

Now tell us all what we need to know about New Orleans.

[Crookshanks]

Chump - did you actually watch the show? I'm not a huge fan of Pat Robertson's, but I was channel surfing and came across the show. I didn't see at all where they were patting themselves on the back. As I said, the report on Mississippi didn't have anything to do with Pat - they weren't there and the other church volunteers weren't part of the 700 Club.


I've seen enough of the 700 Club to know how it works.

Again, did you ACTUALLY watch the show?

[01Snake]

Typical?

What part of the sentence did you not understand? I implied shanks is a dumbass for underestimating the damage in NOLA and getting "news" from the 700 Club.

Where are you getting stuck?

Now tell us all what we need to know about New Orleans.


I don't see Shanks underestimating the damage in NOLA, just stating MS has made bigger strides since that day.

[ChumpDumper]

Chump - did you actually watch the show? I'm not a huge fan of Pat Robertson's, but I was channel surfing and came across the show. I didn't see at all where they were patting themselves on the back. As I said, the report on Mississippi didn't have anything to do with Pat - they weren't there and the other church volunteers weren't part of the 700 Club.So that's the agenda part. Faith-based organizations > government, as you said they concluded.

Don't have to watch to know that.

[Crookshanks]

I implied shanks is a dumbass for underestimating the damage in NOLA

I find this comment highly offensive, not to mention just plain wrong! Where did I underestimate the damage in NOLA? I said that the actual damage from the hurricane was far worse in Mississippi - I never said there wasn't extensive damage in New Orleans. The whole point of my post (which you evidently missed) was to point out the difference between NOLA and Mississippi a year after Katrina.

[Yonivore]

So that's the agenda part. Faith-based organizations > government, as you said they concluded.

Don't have to watch to know that.
Hey Chumpy, just out of curiosity, what is the most reliable news source in your opinion? Where do you get your information?

I'm really interested to know what informs that brain of yours.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't see Shanks underestimating the damage in NOLA, just stating MS has made bigger strides since that day.Considering the difference in scale and types of damage and the fact that so many people never came back to NOLA, it's a false comparison and just a talking point that hit the air yesterday.

No are you going to tell us what we all need to know about New Orleans or what?

[ChumpDumper]

Hey Chumpy, just out of curiosity, what is the most reliable news source in your opinion? Where do you get your information?

I'm really interested to know what informs that brain of yours.Mostly NPR, Fox and MSNBC, and of course whatever online stories that catch my eye. BBC on occasion.

I do not watch the 700 Club. Sorry.

[Crookshanks]

So that's the agenda part. Faith-based organizations > government, as you said they concluded.

Show me where I said "they" concluded that. I concluded that - hence my remark


I would hazard a guess that they have done far more for the people of New Orleans than any govt agency!

You jumped to conclusions based on your own biases!

[ChumpDumper]

The whole point of my post (which you evidently missed) was to point out the difference between NOLA and Mississippi a year after Katrina.Your implication was both states had exactly the same conditions to deal with, which is completely false.

[ChumpDumper]

Show me where I said "they" concluded that. I concluded that - hence my remark

You jumped to conclusions based on your own biases!I sure did. I should get all my news from the 700 Club. Their coverage certainly sounds completely unbiased and without an agenda.

[01Snake]

Considering the difference in scale and types of damage and the fact that so many people never came back to NOLA, it's a false comparison and just a talking point that hit the air yesterday.

No are you going to tell us what we all need to know about New Orleans or what?

Can you read? Where did I say I was going to tell you anything about NOLA? I simply said you were talking out of your ass by calling someone an idiot for stating their point of view and that they watched a particular news show.

[Crookshanks]

Your implication was both states had exactly the same conditions to deal with, which is completely false.

I never implied that - but let's compare. NOLA didn't suffer as much wind damage - most of the damage came from the levee breach. About 80% of the city was flooded.

In Mississippi, they caught the full force of the winds and a storm surge of almost 30 feet. This double whammy wiped whole towns off the map and left Gulfport and Biloxi with most of their oceanfront properties completely destroyed, as well as a huge percentage of homes that were less than a mile from the ocean. Biloxi also has the back bay, which rose because of the storm surge and flooded homes all along the shore.

Now, tell me what the huge difference is.

[ChumpDumper]

Can you read? Where did I say I was going to tell you anything about NOLA? I simply said you were talking out of your ass by calling someone an idiot for stating their point of view and that they watched a particular news show.I can read. You said you know so much more than any of us because you spent months in New Orleans.

Are you just going to keep this to yourself?

Why would you do that?

I asked you to tell me what I should know about New Orleans that I don't know. I really want to know.

Will you?

[Crookshanks]

Their coverage certainly sounds completely unbiased and without an agenda.

How the heck do you ascertain an agenda from that report? Since the 700 Club is a religious show, of course they're going to have a religious slant to the story - but what's wrong with that? They were simply giving credit to the various church groups who were helping with the rebuilding - I highly doubt the MSM will give them any props!

[ChumpDumper]

Now, tell me what the huge difference is.There were half a million people living in NOLA. Half of them never came back. Both are huge differences compared to the other areas.

[ChumpDumper]

How the heck do you ascertain an agenda from that report? Since the 700 Club is a religious show, of course they're going to have a religious slant to the story - but what's wrong with that?How dare I think a religious show put on by Pat Robertson would have an agenda!
They were simply giving credit to the various church groups who were helping with the rebuilding - I highly doubt the MSM will give them any props!You are quite wrong there. Most of the coverage I saw or listened to had stories about or including them.

[Crookshanks]

They didn't come back because:

1. They weren't working, so they didn't have jobs to come back to.
2. They didn't own their homes, so they could rent a house somewhere else (or live off the govt for the past year!)

Most of those people were unproductive citizens and they were going to go wherever they could get the biggest handout.

[Crookshanks]

How dare I think a religious show put on by Pat Robertson would have an agenda!

I give up - there's no use arguing with you because your biases prevent you from looking at this objectively. Think what you will - Pat Robertson won't care.

[ChumpDumper]

Nice generalizations and extreme biases you got going there.

You disgust me.

[Nbadan]

http://www.nitrogen.no/blogfiles/may2006/police_statel.jpg
The government ... um .. aid coming to NOLA after the Katrina hurricane. No person can look at this picture without being seriously concerned about the government's attitude towards its own citizens.

[Kori Ellis]

They didn't come back because:

1. They weren't working, so they didn't have jobs to come back to.
2. They didn't own their homes, so they could rent a house somewhere else (or live off the govt for the past year!)

Most of those people were unproductive citizens and they were going to go wherever they could get the biggest handout.

I rarely post in here and just read, but what the hell?!

You are really an asshole if you actually believe what you just typed.

[boutons_]

Scary picture, Dan.

Makes one appreciate the tremendous solidarity and shared humanity between the (white) badasses hiding behind their killer hardware, and the (black) exposed people being tortured and killed by their helpless nakedness.

If ever there was a crying need for "mission creep" and true leadership, it was then.

[Crookshanks]

I SAID the ones who didn't come back because of reasons 1 & 2 were the unproductive citizens - not everybody who didn't come back!

The lower 9th ward was made up primarily of projects and rental houses. I've talked to MANY people from the area and they told me that. Many of the people who lived there were on welfare and had no reason to come back. They could be just as unproductive in Texas or Georgia or anywhere else.

Don't criticize me and call be obscene names because I spoke the truth. How many reports did we hear about the fraud and abuse of the govt debit cards? Why are some of those people still screaming because FEMA is going to stop paying for their housing? They were content to live in hotels and other free housing and not look for jobs or do much, if anything, to improve their lot in life. Many of the evacuees did - but many of them didn't - and those are the ones I'm referring to!

[Kori Ellis]

I SAID the ones who didn't come back because of reasons 1 & 2 were the unproductive citizens - not everybody who didn't come back!

That's not what you said, but maybe it's what you meant.

You gave those two reasons as why people didn't come back. And then said MOST (meaning most of those who didn't come back?) are just deadbeats.

First off, LJ has a cousin who lives there and goes to Tulane, so we have some firsthand experience with it.

Less than half the people didn't come back to the city and I doubt that "most" of those didn't come back because they are enjoying sponging off the gov't elsewhere.


How many reports did we hear about the fraud and abuse of the govt debit cards? Why are some of those people still screaming because FEMA is going to stop paying for their housing?

Sure, there were a lot of those reports. But you believe that includes MOST people who didn't come back? :wtf

I still say blanket statements like that make you an asshole.

[Kori Ellis]

There were half a million people living in NOLA. Half of them never came back. Both are huge differences compared to the other areas.


They didn't come back because:

1. They weren't working, so they didn't have jobs to come back to.
2. They didn't own their homes, so they could rent a house somewhere else (or live off the govt for the past year!)

Most of those people were unproductive citizens and they were going to go wherever they could get the biggest handout.

Looks like to me you are saying the people that didn't come back didn't come back for those two reasons and those two reasons only.

[Spurminator]

Most of the fraud was probably by evacuees who didn't particularly need the debit cards. I highly doubt anyone was buying an iPod to listen to while they starved to death at a transit station.

[Crookshanks]

Katrina's Latest Damage
Crime is up. Schools are overcrowded. Hospitals are jammed. Houston welcomed a flood of hurricane evacuees with open arms. But now the city is suffering from a case of 'compassion fatigue.'


By Arian Campo-Flores
Newsweek
March 13, 2006 issue - In the aftermath of hurricane Katrina, Houston earned a loving moniker among many of the evacuees who sought refuge there: the Big Heart. This, after all, was the city that housed, fed and mended more than 150,000 survivors in a herculean effort that won national acclaim. Houston officials mounted what is believed to be the biggest shelter operation in the country's history, including MASH-like megaclinics that took on problems ranging from emergency care to eyeglass prescriptions. Then, just as quickly, officials disbanded those facilities to usher evacuees into more-permanent housing, offering them generous vouchers that covered rent and utilities for a year. "No other city really provided the resources and assistance Houston has," says Angelo Edwards, vice chair of the ACORN Katrina Survivors Association. "If not for Mayor White and his administration, a lot of us would've been lost."

But six months after the evacuees arrived, the city's heart seems to be hardening. The signs of a backlash are sometimes subtle. "You'll hear little snide remarks," says Edwards. "People will say, 'The reason you can't get a job is because you can't talk right'." Other times, the reaction is more venomous. Among the nasty examples Dorothy Stukes, an evacuee, cites: graffiti blaring F--- NEW ORLEANS in her apartment complex, schoolkids taunting her grandchildren to "swim in that Katrina water and die" and shopkeepers muttering about survivors' sucking the public coffers dry. Stukes, chair of the ACORN KSA, has become so concerned that when New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin came to town recently, she begged him to hire a public-relations firm to repair the evacuees' image. But given all that Nagin has to contend with amid his own run for re-election, that is not likely to land high on his list.

Katrina continues to be a destructive force. The Bush administration found itself engulfed once again last week, after the release of some footage of the president at an August video briefing on the hurricane. The tape revived discussion of some of Bush's darkest days, when he seemed either uninformed or unable to respond to a national disaster unfolding on TV. But the tape wasn't the only thing fueling Katrina's return to the news. Stoked by congressional investigators, new details have emerged about the government failures that left so many people in mortal danger. Late last week retired Marine Corps Brigadier Gen. Matthew Broderick resigned his post as Homeland Security's operations chief amid accumulating evidence that the command post he directed as Katrina hit misjudged the early damage to New Orleans. (Homeland Security said Broderick left to "spend more time with his family.")

Yet as devastating as Katrina has been for the administration, its impact has been far more visceral in those communities that received tens of thousands of evacuees overnight. In cities stretching from Atlanta to San Antonio, good will has often given way to the crude reality of absorbing a traumatized and sometimes destitute population. In Baton Rouge, which added 100,000 people to a pre-Katrina population of 225,000, residents bemoan the loss of the city's small-town feel and worry that trailer-park settlements will become permanent fixtures of blight. In Dallas, the city housing authority began offering rent vouchers to some of its 20,000 evacuees, only to become quickly overwhelmed and fail to pay landlords, prompting a number of eviction notices.

But perhaps no city has been as convulsed as Houston, which took in the greatest number of survivors. As some see it, the city is suffering from "compassion fatigue." Public services are overwhelmed, city finances are strained and violent crime is on the rise. [B]When city leaders in New Orleans made comments two weeks ago suggesting that they wanted only hardworking evacuees to return, some Houston city-council members erupted in protest—fearing that politicians in the Big Easy were trying to stick Houston with their undesirables. "We extended an open hand to all kinds of people," says Councilwoman Shelley Sekula-Gibbs. "If they want to return home, it's their right." And if they want to stay, she adds, they "need to stand up, get on their feet and get jobs."

=====================
Sounds to me like these people are unproductive citizens - and they don't seem in any hurry to return to New Orleans! Why? maybe it's because they have no jobs or houses to return to!

[Nbadan]

Councilwoman Shelley Sekula-Gibbs

She's the 'write-in'/special election candidate for the wingnuts for Delay's seat.

How convieeeenient!

[PixelPusher]

"...And if they want to stay, she adds, they "need to stand up, get on their feet and get jobs."

For people who don't own cars, I imagine finding and keeping a job in a city like Houston (car-centric, spread out) would be remarkable difficult. Having little or no prior job history probably doesn't help much either.

It's best not to dwell too much on it though; it's much easier to throw a blanket generalizations like "lazy" and "undesireables" on them.

[BIG IRISH]

Quote from an Army Corp rescuer last night on the NOVA "1 year later" show:

"I couldn't believe over 100,000 people stayed!"

Watching the program last night it was obvious - THAT was the biggest problem. Simply TOO many idiots hung around. The fact that less than 1% of them died is a miracle, and a testament to the rescue operations.

I put it in Bold, let me start:
1. Turn off the TV.
2. Read,
3. Talk to people that were there.

100,OOO stayed?

Why?

Some stayed, because it was there friggen job.

Nurses, Doctors, Firefighters, Police, EMS, etc

Some stayed because the couldn't get out.

Some stayed because the didn't believe it was going to be that bad.

and Maybe about 10,000 stayed because the were just stupid/hard headed.

IMO if NO was mostly white,or filled with a lot of non-liberals, it would have been rebuilt a lot faster, and it would be a lot better off today. Hell Mississippi is better off, but they have H. Barbour and all of his connections.

[FromWayDowntown]

IMO if NO was mostly white,or filled with a lot of non-liberals, it would have been rebuilt a lot faster, and it would be a lot better off today. Hell Mississippi is better off, but they have H. Barbour and all of his connections.

There are some who think that the slow pace of rebuilding (or even cleaning up) in places like the Lower Ninth Ward is really an effort at eventually forcing the gentrification of that area -- that people are trying to capitalize on the misfortune of others by buying up that property at ridiculously low prices, having the whole place re-zoned and making it a commercial haven; and that the government is a willing accomplice in that effort. They think that government has wanted to redevelop that land for years but could never truly afford to condemn the property (for both economic and political reasons). Now, they think, that government doesn't have to buy up the land, because entreprenuers will and that the entreprenuers can buy up that land at far better costs if it remains in shambles. I'm sure the truth is somewhere between the extremes -- that rebuilding hasn't occurred because people aren't coming back and that people aren't coming back because there is no rebuilding.

The concern that government is seeking to remedy blight by gentrification -- as well as the abject poverty and other sub-standard socido-economic conditions that were endemic to the Lower Ninth -- doesn't exist in some of the places that are bouncing back more quickly. If you buy the argument, it might further explain the difference, at least to some degree.

[Extra Stout]

For people who don't own cars, I imagine finding and keeping a job in a city like Houston (car-centric, spread out) would be remarkable difficult. Having little or no prior job history probably doesn't help much either.

It's best not to dwell too much on it though; it's much easier to throw a blanket generalizations like "lazy" and "undesireables" on them.
Houston and Houstonians have bent over backwards to find the evacuees work, and to accomodate their situations with transportation. Those who want to work have found jobs paying far more than they could have gotten in New Orleans. It has pulled them from the working poor into the lower middle class. And that group that has shown the initiative to work does represent the sizable majority of evacuees. One hears a lot of Louisiana Creole accents among nurses and support staff in the Medical Center these days.

But there is a minority who simply have no interest in working, and are simply looking to see how long they can string out local generosity to freeload. Public transportation schedules have been altered to accomodate the complexes where large numbers of evacuees needing work were staying. It got to the point where evacuee job fairs would be held with shuttle buses running to and from the apartment complexes where evacuees were staying. Maybe half a dozen people would go. I know it is fashionable liberal thing to make excuses, but at some point it becomes obvious that there are people who aren't working because they do not want to work.

[PixelPusher]

Houston and Houstonians have bent over backwards to find the evacuees work, and to accomodate their situations with transportation. Those who want to work have found jobs paying far more than they could have gotten in New Orleans. It has pulled them from the working poor into the lower middle class. And that group that has shown the initiative to work does represent the sizable majority of evacuees. One hears a lot of Louisiana Creole accents among nurses and support staff in the Medical Center these days.

But there is a minority who simply have no interest in working, and are simply looking to see how long they can string out local generosity to freeload. Public transportation schedules have been altered to accomodate the complexes where large numbers of evacuees needing work were staying. It got to the point where evacuee job fairs would be held with shuttle buses running to and from the apartment complexes where evacuees were staying. Maybe half a dozen people would go. I know it is fashionable liberal thing to make excuses, but at some point it becomes obvious that there are people who aren't working because they do not want to work.

That's good to know (haven't lived in Texas since 1993). And it's true, there are some people who simply don't want to work, but my experience is that it's also a fashionable conservative excuse for anyone who's unemployed.

[Extra Stout]

That's good to know (haven't lived in Texas since 1993). And it's true, there are some people who simply don't want to work, but my experience is that it's also a fashionable conservative excuse for anyone who's unemployed.
In the U.S., in order to be considered "unemployed," one has to be actively pursuing work, so if that excuse is used to explain unemployment rate, it is a non sequitur.