The oceans are so sick they're burning.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Great article by the LA times explaining what is happening to our oceans, due mostly to human runoff, overfishing, and EGW.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/oceans/la-me-ocean30jul30,0,952130.story?page=1

Very sad.

[Extra Stout]

There has been technology in place for 20 years to denitrify wastewater. I used to be the engineer for a WW plant with a denitrification reactor. You build it, start it up, have a couple biochemists to monitor the bacterial health, and it runs for decades without needing so much as an inspection. The residence time is only 2 or 3 hours. You dewater and incinerate your waste sludge under SCR, and you're emitting N2 to the air rather than nitrates to the oceans.

It costs several million to build each one, but compare that to the economic impact of losing 95% of all sealife, and tell me which is cheaper.

[boutons_]

"denitrification reactor."

What's the business model? Subsidized by tax revenues? Run as a private enterprise selling what? Normalized seawater? To whom?

[sickdsm]

.........And someone tries to say that water is the barrior to corn yields.



Wonder what a new hyrid GMO corn plant that only grows 5 ft maximum would due to fertilizer runoff..............

[Extra Stout]

"denitrification reactor."

What's the business model? Subsidized by tax revenues? Run as a private enterprise selling what? Normalized seawater? To whom?
Who creates the nitrate emissions?

Either that group would be responsible to operate nitrate remediation plants, or they would pay a tax for the government to do it.

My industry has to do that already. My company's WW discharge has to be cleaner than the water coming in. We process at least a couple billion gallons per year.

It may sound "liberal," but what's the alternative? The extinction of saltwater marine life?

[sickdsm]

Reminds me of the whole carbon credits idea where youre only allowed to release so much carbon to the atphosmere. You can buy credits from farmers that just do what they do and allow factories to pollute more.

[boutons_]

The sacred farmers/agri-business (both plants and animals) are major consumers of cheap/free underground/surface water, paying much less than municipalities and individuals, while being a major source of water, air pollution, and erosion, while producing cheap but mostly shitty, tasteless, de-nutrified food laden with chemicals and drugs.

If the ag industry was really cleaned up (don't expect the Repugs to even think about that), the price (and quality?) of food would go up, but perhaps the model would be more balanced, sustainable, less injurious. Also, there has been a move away from meat consumption, so if the meat were priced including all its real costs, then only meat eaters would pay the high price of producing meat, ie, like toll roads, a consumer tax.

ie, if someone doesn't eat meat, why should they pay environmental costs for meat production? Will Ernesto's rains spill hog farm waste pits into the Atlantic coast rivers again?

The same with carbon-based energy production. If coal-fired plants were fitted with pollution control equipment, the costs of electricity would be higher, but that would spur greater conservation, which is really the only solution to US's dependence on foreign energy suppliers.

Don't EVER expect a Washington politician, of either party, to talk about the above changes. The voters will have to understand these issues and vote these issues massively to overcome the, disenfranchising corporate ownership of politicians.

[101A]

ie, if someone doesn't eat meat, why should they pay environmental costs for meat production? ...




cough...school vouchers...cough

[sickdsm]

The sacred farmers/agri-business (both plants and animals) are major consumers of cheap/free underground/surface water, paying much less than municipalities and individuals, while being a major source of water, air pollution, and erosion, while producing cheap but mostly shitty, tasteless, de-nutrified food laden with chemicals and drugs.

If the ag industry was really cleaned up (don't expect the Repugs to even think about that), the price (and quality?) of food would go up, but perhaps the model would be more balanced, sustainable, less injurious. Also, there has been a move away from meat consumption, so if the meat were priced including all its real costs, then only meat eaters would pay the high price of producing meat, ie, like toll roads, a consumer tax.

ie, if someone doesn't eat meat, why should they pay environmental costs for meat production? Will Ernesto's rains spill hog farm waste pits into the Atlantic coast rivers again?

The same with carbon-based energy production. If coal-fired plants were fitted with pollution control equipment, the costs of electricity would be higher, but that would spur greater conservation, which is really the only solution to US's dependence on foreign energy suppliers.

Don't EVER expect a Washington politician, of either party, to talk about the above changes. The voters will have to understand these issues and vote these issues massively to overcome the, disenfranchising corporate ownership of politicians.



Get out of your little texas world and see that surface water is readily available in much of the country that can actually produce. Texas for some reason may be known for cattle but is in reality a miserable place to grow, feed and produces a worse product. Don't compare your shithole to the rest of the world.


I could however, see your little bitch ass getting your panties in a wad over the thought of the price of food rising under conservative leadership.


boutons: That's a poor tax. Repugs are all about the wealthy oil execs lining their pocket. They want high fuel and high food cost to wring it out of the pocket of who it would hurt the most, the impoverished.

ie, if someone doesn't eat meat, why should they pay environmental costs for meat production?

Fair enough, you want higher cost of food to offset eviro cost? I assume you eat all organic foods. Its all right there, although a higher price for more manual labor. Given enough demand and income, i'll swithh to organic food. How about blowing up the entire SW to save on water. Why is it that you feel your part of the country is entilted to our water yet think you can dictate who should or should not be able to irrigate or use water for cattle? Do you pay the higher cost for green electirity too?


What raw product of agribusiness is shitty, tasteless, de-nutrified laden with chemicals and drugs?


Your municipalities and individuals within the cities are mostly to blame for these foods.


You fucking moron, you have no fucking clue. Do you know how grains are tested for protein, oil, etc.. Do you know how the premiums work for higher quality food? Drug free cattle? Orgainc food?

Put your money where your bitch ass mouth is. Go to the butcher and get a slab of organic steak, drug free steak, and implanted steak.

Go grind up some conventianl corn flour and get some GMO Bt, roundup ready corn and make some tortill'as

grab silimar versions of soybeans and cook it in differnt soybean oils.


Tell me how tasteless, de-nutrified and shitty each one is.


You have a better chance of picking caffiene free diet coke and diet coke in a taste test.


Then go the walmart stores you love so much and look at where these fine ingredients are made into these shitty foods you talk so much about. Google that shit and you'll see its all coming from urban area's that get so much cheap water.


People like you are all the same. Just another band of Tyler Durdin's that want to dry clothes on the freeways and live 3000 years ago.