Fiba > Nba?

[cheguevara]

In FIBA, the best team usually wins, in the NBA not at all.

In FIBA, the refs are mostly in the background, in the NBA they take the spotlight.

In FIBA, everything happens much faster, a 9 pt lead is huge, in the NBA there are so many timeouts, and game stoppages, the players have plenty time to gather their thoughts.

In FIBA, individual talent does not give too much an advantage, the NBA is all about individual talent.

IMO the NBA is mainly for "entertainment", marketing, selling t-shirts, etc but when you really wanna know which team is really the best, FIBA > NBA

[Obstructed_View]

:lol

[samikeyp]

I disagree, I think there have been plenty of times that the best team has won in the NBA.

Everything else you said I think is right on.

I don't see FIBA as better than the NBA or vice versa....I just think the two are vastly different and I wouldn't mind seeing some changes to close that difference.

[Cherry]

Argentina + Spain + Hellas > USA (- Bruce Bowen)

[cheguevara]

I disagree, I think there have been plenty of times that the best team has won in the NBA.

yes of course, after a 7 fucking game series. The NBA implemented 7 game series mainly for $$ but it turns out the NBA also requires a 7 game series between 2 teams to see who is the best.

[polandprzem]

In FIBA, the best team usually wins, in the NBA not at all.

That is almost the truth. But take a look hhow long is the nba season and how important are the injures to nba teams.


In FIBA, the refs are mostly in the background, in the NBA they take the spotlight.
Not true.



In FIBA, individual talent does not give too much an advantage, the NBA is all about individual talent.
Well it was like that in the history of the nba. But when those indywiduals can play togetgher than you have success



IMO the NBA is mainly for "entertainment", marketing, selling t-shirts, etc but when you really wanna know which team is really the best, FIBA > NBA
Yup stren did it and he saved the leauge.
But I do not know if those new rules are that bad. They are opening up more court but still nba (the playes) wants to play indywidually.

Great team teams - NY '70, Bos '60, LA '80 Spurs and Detroit nowdays

[cheguevara]

to clarify, I was mainly comparing NBA single playoff games to FIBA competition games.

again, the great NBA teams have won because of 7 game series.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

In FIBA, the refs are mostly in the background, in the NBA they take the spotlight.
hmm... you haven't been watching very closely, have you

[cheguevara]

hmm... you haven't been watching very closely, have you

in COMPARISON to NBA officiating?? Methinks you haven't been watching

[samikeyp]

yes of course, after a 7 fucking game series. The NBA implemented 7 game series mainly for $$ but it turns out the NBA also requires a 7 game series between 2 teams to see who is the best.

I agree...I would love to see a one and done format.

[Obstructed_View]

hmm... you haven't been watching very closely, have you
Here it comes.

[Brutalis]

I think FIBA refs are crack addicts. FIBA rules are about dumb as rocks and not even basketball.

When they wanna play the game like it's supposed to be played I'm sure USA would be owning it up as well.

Not that FIBA means shit to anyone inside the US anyways, cause it doesn't. The media cares cause it fills their pockets though. But in reality it means shit.

Olympics is what counts. You win that you are the best in the world. You win FIBA good job here's a cookie.

[nkdlunch]

I have just watched both games and I gotta tell you, what a sorry squad the USA has.

Maybe they should just decide to send college kids and save the NBA the embarrasment

they don't have a chance in HELL in the olympics even w/Kobe, Shaq, Superman whoever if things don't change.

[mathbzh]

IMO the difference is not about the rules, the officials...
But about how people see the game. To win a competition you need to have some defensive intensity, players must not care about the stats sheet, you can't completely rebuild a team every year...

Greece > USA for the same reasons Pistons > Suns and Duncan > Kobe

[polandprzem]

Well this team is built on Olympics.

And tell me why Iverson was not a good choice for this team?

Unbelivable.

Battier was nothing in that game but K decided to let him play instead of monster Howard

[Extra Stout]

Olympics is what counts. You win that you are the best in the world. You win FIBA good job here's a cookie.
Umm... the Olympics are played by FIBA rules.

[bdictjames]

Other FIBA Players were trained by American coaches here you know

[BgT]

When they wanna play the game like it's supposed to be played I'm sure USA would be owning it up as well.
SUPPOSED??!!! :lol Well, mr. Smarty, is it SUPPOSED to be "travelling=turnover"? Is this only a FIBA rule or is it that way in NBA, too? Coz I don't see any travelling being called in NBA against LeBron, Anthony, Iverson, Kobe,...

The only difference between FIBA and NBA rules is, that FIBA refs actually call what NBA officials should've called. After all if the NBA rules define travelling, why are officials disregarding it? Coz they are better than FIBA refs? I don't think so, it's probably, because they are worse, wouldn't that be right?

BTW, regarding the topic, I think that NBA champ is the best basketball club in the world at that particualr moment.

[Sway]

And tell me why Iverson was not a good choice for this team?


Are you serious? Iverson is a high output (takes a lot of shots) - low % (doesnt make very many) shooter. He would have been horrible on this team.

The US needed better outside shooters and better coaching not Iverson.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

FIBA isn't > than NBA.

FIBA > Team USA built on Jersey sales

USA should just start sending the team that won the NBA title the previous year to the worlds, the US would never lose again.

[Sway]

This is probably more accurate:

FIBA = WNBA
FIBA < NBA

[Texas_Ranger]

You must be joking.

FIBA > NBA = :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[polandprzem]

Are you serious? Iverson is a high output (takes a lot of shots) - low % (doesnt make very many) shooter. He would have been horrible on this team.

The US needed better outside shooters and better coaching not Iverson.

You kidding me right?

What was Miller doing or jamison?
battier?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Battier did a bang up job today on the pick and roll. Good fucking call Coach K. :pctoss

[Sway]

You kidding me right?

What was Miller doing or jamison?
battier?

Riding the pine which is the same thing Iverson would be doing if he was on this team. Anyway, what the fuck do you care youve been hating on Team USA since day 1.

[polandprzem]

Riding the pine which is the same thing Iverson would be doing if he was on this team. Anyway, what the fuck do you care youve been hating on Team USA since day 1.

I'm not hating on them. Realy you are not that long in here....

I do frickin care. He is from the NBA duuh yes I'm an NBA fan. And I know waht Iver would bring to this team. AndI'm not gonna explain it to ya since you have your own great and fantastic mind

[nkdlunch]

Brad Miller was on team USA???

as what? ballboy?

[Sway]

I'm not hating on them. Realy you are not that long in here....

I do frickin care. He is from the NBA duuh yes I'm an NBA fan. And I know waht Iver would bring to this team. AndI'm not gonna explain it to ya since you have your own great and fantastic mind

This is too easy...


I can read the NBA pussie fans, and then I know what is important in basketball.

Frankly speaking that was just an irony.

^^^I thought you said you are an NBA fan?


Stupid leauge

pussies and complainers

^^^Again, I thought you said you are NBA fan?


I root for Argentina ofcourse. I do not like the usa much.

^^^Poland not in it anymore? You sure sound like a HATTTTEEERRRRRRRR!

:loser

[polandprzem]

I do not like usa TEAM much. But I do not hate them. But sometimes I just want to angry some of the posters here. But you don't know that.

On some quotes I was saying about the leauge. You've got to admitt there is too much comaplining to the refs! And the "pussies" made is stronger. :)

btw. who likes a guy like Anthony?
IS he even gonna play for the bronze? he have the bromze from the olypics already....excuse me he had :)

[polandprzem]

But If you wnat me to say that you just owned me then I can say. Hell no!
:D

[sabar]

Team USA rebuilds a new team every year from scratch. Give these guys a few months together and throw them into the mix with 7-8 exhibition games with no experience against some opponents and can contend for bronze in a whole different system.

That alone proves NBA>FIBA. What was the last team totally rebuilt in one year in the NBA that made it to the semifinals with 2 months time playing together and no time playing other teams?

[Slo spurs fan]

FIBA isn't > than NBA.

FIBA > Team USA built on Jersey sales

USA should just start sending the team that won the NBA title the previous year to the worlds, the US would never lose again.
If they do this, how could Spurs play for team USA if the have a lot of international players?

[Sway]

I do not like usa TEAM much. But I do not hate them. But sometimes I just want to angry some of the posters here. But you don't know that.

On some quotes I was saying about the leauge. You've got to admitt there is too much comaplining to the refs! And the "pussies" made is stronger. :)

btw. who likes a guy like Anthony?
IS he even gonna play for the bronze? he have the bromze from the olypics already....excuse me he had :)
The NBA does have a lot of crybabies but so does FIBA. I don’t know of too many sports or leagues where the players don’t complain about calls.

I actually didn’t like Carmelo until I watched him play for Team USA. He has given 100% and has represented the USA very well.



But If you wnat me to say that you just owned me then I can say. Hell no!
:D

Well I was hoping you would sack up and admit to getting owned but oh well.

[polandprzem]

I was not owned - but whatever.




Ps. I feel bad now. I'm :depressed and :depressed

[SMLT]

NBA and FIBA are two different games. To sum it up, one is still a sport and remains a team oriented game where the other is a (great) show with very little beside individual skills. On top of that the gap is widening due to simpler and simpler NBA coaching (due to the rule, see bellow)

Everything in the NBA is made to be a show: rules, refs, the 3 pts line, defensive rules, ... That make for a great entertainment but not (what I call) basketball anymore. Remember that John S. and Karl M. kind of ruled for more than ten years on pick and roll... Of course they were great but you'll never see that with FIBA's basketball because the success lies in team work (mainly because the defense is so much better, cf. no limitation on the defensive side).

As u can imagine from my post I favor FIBA's ball over NBA's but I have a (quite) good knowledge of both games and I can explain why when most of critics around here just don't know FIBA but for the world's championship (and some don't even seem to know that the Olympics are played under FIBA's rules)... Sad... U have to know something to be legit to critic it... And not only in basketball for what matters.

My two cents.

[confined]

yeah and plus someone could kill themselves tryin to pronounce some of the european players names....
and its stupid how u can take the ball right off the rim in FIBA

[Slo spurs fan]

yeah and plus someone could kill themselves tryin to pronounce some of the european players names....
and its stupid how u can take the ball right off the rim in FIBA
WOW what a smart man!!! :rolleyes

[gus]

Let me share some thoughts:

I think that this thread is a provocation.

Here are my thoughts:

1.- Look NBA has the best players on earth with the exception of 20 players who play in Euroleague who maybe will not be top stars here ( It is a fact, fact ).- Who in the hell would like to play for a couple of hundred thousand bucks per year ( Average money in EUROLEAGUE ) when you have a minimum of almost a million in NBA and average salary are 3 million???

2.- FIBA National teamS learned from US coaches and then practiced and so on ( Argentina played in the Olympics with a Flex that was invented by Hubie Brown ) The pick and roll that killed USA today is the ABC of basketball, anywhere. USA Basketball plays only fucking isolation, that is Rucker Park not Basketball. Anyway, I REALLY doubt that Greece can beat the Spurs in 7 games. The Spurs and some other teams ( Not many ) play with strategy and knowledge.

3.- Officiating in FIBA is dangerous, you can loose a match with those bitches ( Argentina has been stolen a couple of times ) In NBA ( With the exception of the 3rd and4th match serie with mavs. ) i never seen a ref that can turn the match outcome. They are better, much better. Terry Moore who is NBA and FIBA is very cool in FIBA matches.

Those European refs. are terrible and localists. ( See Euroleague ).- I hate them and I see them very "mafia" kind even for FIBA standards.- Remember that as Argentinean I see our local FIBA league and refs. are not these kind of criminals. Australian, Uruguayan and Brazilian are also good refs.

FIBA should do something with officiating.

Anyway, USA lost because they could not guard a door today. Greece is good but it is not the epitome of good offense in FIBA, they are defenders.

Running fast is good but the ball can go faster. Using the brain could be good. It makes me remember the first time Nocioni played vs. Le Bron James in NBA, he called him "LeBronze" and "Poco Seso" that means something like "small brain"

I liked what I've seen from Anthony, Wade, Hinrich, Howarth and Joe Johnson during tournament.


Just my 2 cents.

gus

[Kori Ellis]

Fiba Coaching > Coach K

[Ya Vez]

Greece 101, US 95
By ANDREW BAGNATO, AP Sports Writer
September 1, 2006

SAITAMA, Japan (AP) -- As they warmed up before Friday's semifinal against Greece, the U.S. players put on a jam session for the fans.

Dwight Howard dunked emphatically. Dwyane Wade bounced the ball off the backboard, caught it and stuffed. Elton Brand jammed an alley-oop pass. Finally, LeBron James flew down the lane for a tomahawk.

As the crowd roared, the Greeks lined up at the other end and shot free throws. The moment foretold Greece's 101-95 victory in the semifinals of the world championships.

The U.S. has dazzling skill; the Greeks are a dazzling team.

"We have to learn the international game better," U.S. coach Mike Krzyzewski said. "We learned a lot today because we played a team that plays amazing basketball and plays together."

[polandprzem]

Fiba Coaching > Coach K

Yup but take a look at the olympics. The same situation.

maybe if they had gunners? Cuse they had an inside presents in TD.

[monosylab1k]

a few thoughts of mine...

1. To anyone now saying "See what happens when you cut Bruce Bowen!!!!!" - you are a fucking asshole. period. Hearing people bitch about how much better Team USA would have been had they kept Bowen is like being bukakked with stupid*. The results would have been identical if Bowen was on the team. Shut the fuck up.

2. I don't know if one is greater than the other (FIBA vs. NBA), but there is a telling sign....NBA players are having to adapt to play international ball, and not the other way around. When they refuse to play a more fundamental style of basketball, they lose. International teams aren't the ones trying to figure out how to play basketball more like the NBA.

3. the whole "all those teams have played together for years!" argument is total bullshit. Pau Gasol isn't practicing with his buddies on the Spanish team all year, he is in America 8 months out of the year. Same with Ginobili, Nocioni, every other international NBA player, etc. The remainder of the guys on these teams are playing in other European basketball leagues around the continent. They get together for the World Championships and the Olympics exactly the way the U.S. does. The fact that they all were the same team two years ago makes no difference. If you disbanded the Dallas Mavericks, let them go play for other teams for two years, and then brought them back together, would they have the same chemistry that they had two years ago? No, and it would take months for it to redevelop. They have no more team chemistry than Team USA did. They just take it a little more seriously, and have alot more pride in what they do, and are FAR LESS ARROGANT, than the U.S. team has in the past decade or so.


*a stolen line, i know.

[itzsoweezee]

Not that FIBA means shit to anyone inside the US anyways, cause it doesn't. The media cares cause it fills their pockets though. But in reality it means shit.

Olympics is what counts. You win that you are the best in the world. You win FIBA good job here's a cookie.

actually, every national basketball team (besides the US) wants to win the FIBA championship more than the olympics. The US is an anomoly in holding the olympics in higher regard than the FIBA championships.

[Taco]

FIBA = more made free throws, more made 3 pointers, and no traveling

[gus]

actually, every national basketball team (besides the US) wants to win the FIBA championship more than the olympics. The US is an anomoly in holding the olympics in higher regard than the FIBA championships.

No, no there are similar. The Olympic is more elusive because only 4 teams have won it. (US; URSS; YUGOSLAVIA -without USA- AND ARGIES )

[cheguevara]

Greece 101, US 95
By ANDREW BAGNATO, AP Sports Writer
September 1, 2006

SAITAMA, Japan (AP) -- As they warmed up before Friday's semifinal against Greece, the U.S. players put on a jam session for the fans.

Dwight Howard dunked emphatically. Dwyane Wade bounced the ball off the backboard, caught it and stuffed. Elton Brand jammed an alley-oop pass. Finally, LeBron James flew down the lane for a tomahawk.

As the crowd roared, the Greeks lined up at the other end and shot free throws. The moment foretold Greece's 101-95 victory in the semifinals of the world championships.

The U.S. has dazzling skill; the Greeks are a dazzling team.

"We have to learn the international game better," U.S. coach Mike Krzyzewski said. "We learned a lot today because we played a team that plays amazing basketball and plays together."

:lmao thats some funny shit

[Slinkyman]

Fact, Coach K is a shitty coach who would never beat anybody if he didn't pay off ACC refs to get home court advantage on the road. Why the fuck is a college coach coaching NBA players? Quite a few never even went to college! Everything USA basketball promised to fix didn't get fixed. WHERE ARE THE ROLE PLAYERS? WHERE ARE THE SHOOTERS? WHY DID YOU CUT THE BEST ROLL PLAYER WHO CAN SHOOT 3s?

[gus]

One last thought:

Let's see if any of the Euroleague team beat the NBA in OCTOBER -NBA EUROPE-, and then let's compare again FIBA vs. NBA.

A thought: it won't happen.

Gus

[polandprzem]

One last thought:

Let's see if any of the Euroleague team beat the NBA in OCTOBER -NBA EUROPE-, and then let's compare again FIBA vs. NBA.

A thought: it won't happen.

Gus

wtf are you talking about?

[BeerIsGood!]

Coz I don't see any travelling being called in NBA .
I saw a lot of traveling called against TP and Manu (which was legit), but not very many others who were also traveling.

[mavs>spurs2]

There are several reasons why we lost, but bad calls was not one of them. First of all, all of the teams in the tournament except the U.S. have been playing together for years. Team work > individual talent. Secondly, the U.S. doesn't bring their best players. Where was Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Marion, Garnett, Iverson, etc? For one reason or another, most of the top players couldn't make it. Not to mention, Iverson was wrongfully not invited. You can't teach a team everything they need to know in 3 weeks, much less develop chemistry. Not to mention, we still haven't learned our lesson about bringing more shooters. We don't have many 3pt. specialists besides Joe Johnson who is too streaky. International basketball is played on the perimeter. Until the U.S. realizes that Teamwork > good individual players, this will be the case every year. We will continue to do no better than 3rd each year untill something is changed.

[mavs>spurs2]

The list can go on and on, experience at the point guard position and other positions is another issue. CP3 and Hinrich are both good passers, but not as experienced as the people they are going up against. I think we could have used Iverson, if he is willing to be a pass first guy instead of a me-first guy.

[ChumpDumper]

Where was Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Marion, Garnett, Iverson, etc? Kobe and Marion were recovering from surgery.

The rest of those guys don't wear Nike shoes.

[mavs>spurs2]

Kobe and Marion were recovering from surgery.

The rest of those guys don't wear Nike shoes.

Lol then somebody better hurry up and buy them a pair of Nikes. :smokin

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Let's look at the decision making core of Team USA:

* Colangelo: got the rules changed in the NBA to take away hand checks on the perimeter. Yeah, he cares about defense - less of it :lol

* D'Antoni as the primary assistant: defense is a four letter word to him

* Coach K: no coach in the college or pros benefits more from biased officiating than Coach K at Duke. Of course, it helps that he is the senior most coach on the NCAA committee that reviews all officials at the end of each year and decides who gets to call DI games next year.

Take away that power over the refs, and Coach K isn't near as good, and he had already let the inmates (D'ANtoni and Colangelo) take over the asylum before the team even left for Asia.

Keeping Shane Battier over Bowen (I don't care that they say it was Brad Miller - okay fine, he didn't even play - WTF?!?!) was the nail in Team USA's coffin.

Until the people in charge of picking Team USA wakes the fuck up, nothing will change with this team. And spare me all the hype about how this was to get their feet wet in preparation for 2008 Olympic play. If the team is going to be run the same way, they won't win it then either.

[smeagol]

I think FIBA refs are crack addicts. FIBA rules are about dumb as rocks and not even basketball.

When they wanna play the game like it's supposed to be played I'm sure USA would be owning it up as well.

Not that FIBA means shit to anyone inside the US anyways, cause it doesn't. The media cares cause it fills their pockets though. But in reality it means shit.

Olympics is what counts. You win that you are the best in the world. You win FIBA good job here's a cookie.
Lame post from a lame poster.

[marlboroman]

fiba is not > nba. it's just different, more romantic game :)

but fiba is definately > team nike

[ALVAREZ6]

fiba is not > nba. it's just different, more romantic game :)

but fiba is definately > team nike
:wtf

FIBA is romantic and it is greater than team USA.

[milkyway21]

the best men in the NBA are not playing against those guys. Only the young & future superstars. There's actually only 1 NBA champion on that team-Wade.lost by 4pts,and in just a month of camp practice...

what if Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, AI, Pierce, Kidd, Big Ben, Billups, Amare, Carter participated?

I don't think so. :rolleyes

NBA is still>Fiba

[SMLT]

Funny how some react...

FIBA ain't superior to NBA, FIBA's is superior basketball to NBA's (in my mind).

Sure, the NBA has the best players (95 % of them at least) but then again skill ain't all in a team oriented game (that is basketball, huge individual skill inside a system). That's the whole difference... FIBA is still a team game, NBA's not anymore... It's a choice (flashier game on the NBA side for what matters).

And, for once, can you admit a defeat ? 2002, 2004, 2006 and counting... Those are not accidents... The world catched up... Back then the FIBA's rules where not a problem for the great NBAers but, obviously, the world took the challenge. Period.

And finally, arrogance is what prevent questionning and solving your own problems... No the refs don't steal the show in FIBA, yes FIBA's players do adapt to NBA style quite easily (success varies but then again you need more than just skill to get your chance in the NBA).

It remains me of discussion between Nascar and F1... Sure NASCAR is the greatest auto support ever (lol) but why do F1 drivers (even average one) are good when they go NASCAR (one could wonder why they bury themselves there of course but the answer is simple: no more opportunity in F1) when the reverse ain't true... The answer is simple (to sum up): fundamentals (which is not the same as skill that all great drivers have to a certain degree). Think about it a little and, especially, in basketball.

[Kamnik]

Fiba Coaching > Coach K

this is basicly it


to many people being smartasses about everything blablah

if USA would win the gold noone would say anything

[Phenomanul]

We should take the best of both worlds....

1. FIBA Trapezoid Lane > NBA Rectangle Lane
It spaces the floor better and allows more back cuts to the basket; which are always entertaining to watch.

2. NBA 3pt line > FIBA 3pt line
For the same reasoning as number 1, it too spaces the floor better.

3. NBA 48 minute game (12 minute quarters) > FIBA 40 minute game (10 minute quarters)
No one wants to pay for such a short show!!!

4. FIBA Goaltending Rule > NBA Goaltending Rule
It only happens maybe five or six times per game... but it makes the game more interesting and dramatic. Imagine tapping out a game winning free-throw as it is rattling around the rim... DRAMA!!!

5. NBA 6 personal foul limit > FIBA 5 personal foul limit
No one wants to see star players in foul trouble every single game do they???

6. FIBA Ball > NBA Ball
I've always thought the NBA ball was too big... I know my hands aren't as big as players from the NBA but slightly smaller balls allow for better dribbling... less deflections, and require better rebounding instincts. Not to mention more people are able to dunk it...

7. FIBA time out rule > NBA time out rule
I like the fact that only the coach can call time outs... It gives the game more flow.

8. NBA playoff series format > FIBA single elimination format
Best of 3 would be a suitable compromise. And what's with all these back-to-backs in an official tournament? People want to see teams match up against each other with their better rested selves.

9. NBA Refs and FIBA Refs both suck....
-- when will they incorporate better technologies?
-- FIBA refs miss several calls due to lack of consistency among the different world leagues...
-- NBA refs miss calls due to owner intimidation and the Stern-factor... and for wanting to take the spotlight...


There are probably some other points.

[boutons_]

Foreign Hoops Is All Greek to U.S.

By Michael Wilbon
Saturday, September 2, 2006; E01

Our arrogance has no boundaries when it comes to international basketball, though it ought to by now, after yet another loss in a major competition. Even Americans who pay fairly close attention to world basketball, people who should know better, took one look at the Greek roster and dismissively figured, "No NBA players on the roster? Then no chance for Greece."

As dumb as it is for American fans to be so presumptuous, especially after a string of losses dating from 1987, it's even dumber for anybody actually involved in international competition to be dismissive. But that's exactly what I heard in the words of Team USA's Joe Johnson earlier this week. The Atlanta Hawks guard, asked if the United States is unstoppable when the team shoots well, answered: "No doubt, when our shots are falling and when they're not falling. I think our biggest opponent is ourselves right now."

This was after beating up on the likes of Senegal and Australia, teams that were never going to challenge the world's top teams anyway. But you know how we roll; one foreign basketball team is the same as another. China, Senegal, Greece and Spain . . . they're all the same, right? They are to most Americans, fans and players alike, which is one of many reasons U.S. teams, first the college boys and now the pros, are getting whipped in these international competitions.

We commit the single most arrogant and unpardonable mistake in competition: We underestimate the opponent. Hell, half the time we don't even pay any attention to the opponent. We didn't know the Greek players, so how could they be any good? Where are their phat shoe contracts? Where were they in the Top 10 Dunks on "SportsCenter"? How talented could they be if they don't have a Gatorade commercial or answer to a single name like Shaq or Kobe or LeBron?

Greece? Why should we pay attention to Greece?

Because they won. Because Greece, a team known only for playing good defense in this tournament, scored 101 points early Friday morning in Japan and eliminated Team USA from the FIBA World Championship.

In every other sport we seem to understand that we're not the only ones playing, that we're not vastly superior and, in fact, often aren't as good. We're fairly arrogant about Ryder Cup play, too, but not to the extreme of basketball. Americans only popularized golf; we invented basketball. And we dominated hoops for nearly 100 years if you don't count being cheated out of the gold medal in the 1972 Olympics.

But a lot has happened since, beginning in 1987, when Brazil beat a U.S. team of collegiate players. The Dream Team reestablished American superiority in Barcelona in 1992. But the United States barely won Olympic gold in 2000 in Sydney, finished sixth in the world championship in 2002, lost three times in the 2004 Olympics and now has failed to win in the 2006 world championship.

The rest of the world isn't catching up. They've caught up. I think, in terms of international competition, they've passed us.

Please, I don't want to hear about how we could have won if we'd only had our best players. Two of the brightest men in the basketball community, Jerry Colangelo and Mike Krzyzewski, led the effort that put together this team. Don't tell me we lost because Tim Duncan wasn't there, because Duncan was there in Athens two years ago when the United States lost. Don't tell me "Well, Allen Iverson wasn't there," because A.I. was there two years ago with Duncan when the United States lost those three games. Don't tell me that Paul Pierce and Tracy McGrady would have made all the difference because they could have busted those zone defenses Americans struggle with, because Pierce and McGrady were on the world championship team four years ago when the U.S. team finished sixth.

This team had access to all the shooters and role players in America, and one of the great coaches in the history of modern basketball -- Coach K -- and lost. Why? Because we're not as good, not in this international format, anyway. But more than anything we lose these most recent affairs because we look down our nose at the competition, which is going to land us in the same position in 2008 in Beijing if we don't wise up.

The game has changed. Much of it has been given over at the grassroots level to the forces of AAU, hip-hop and video game nonsense, where the emphasis has switched from learning how to play fundamentally to embarrassing the opponent in any way imaginable and posing while doing so. Combine this new attitude with the traditional arrogance from people nearing age 60 who grew up without ever seeing the United States challenged other than in '72, and we've got just about every basketball demographic covered in hubris.

It's a cultural condition that afflicts us: If we lose, it must be our own fault because, well, just look at you.

And it's a racial condition as well. We -- and by "we" I mean Americans of all colors -- have conditioned ourselves to look at European teams specifically and dismiss them out of hand because they're white. Or we think they're white. And of course, Americans have led the world in telling folks that white men can't jump, though amazingly some of those Greek kids apparently didn't accept our premise. I never thought this U.S. team was going to beat Spain or Argentina but it didn't even get to that.

What's sure to happen now is that we'll start to pick apart Team USA, and I will admit that I don't understand how we continue to go from one competition to the next without multiple pure shooters. Will we at some point stop paying lip service to having shooters and actually put some pure shooters on the team?

Still, there's no sense in picking apart the players on the team. USA Basketball picked the right team for the most part, though cutting veteran defender, three-point shooter and calming influence Bruce Bowen seemed regrettable to me the moment he was let go. And who in his right mind would question selecting Krzyzewski to coach the team? In fact, look at the men whose teams have lost in international play the last 19 years. Denny Crum (1987 Pan American Games) won two NCAA championships. John Thompson ('88 Seoul Olympics) won an NCAA championship. George Karl (2002 World Championship) might not have won a championship, but only a fool would suggest he's not a fine coach. Larry Brown (2004 Olympics) has won championships in college and the NBA. And Coach K has won three NCAA championships.

You want to argue with the selection of coaches? These men are or were great coaches. International teams (particularly in Europe and South America) studied at the feet of those coaches in clinics and competitions. And they taught the American game to their European, South American, Asian and African players.

Now those players play this particular brand of basketball -- one not controlled by our slash-and-slam style that's grown so tiresome -- better than we do. The question now, as we look to the Olympic Games of 2008, is whether we'll spend the next two years making excuses or taking a good look at the growing number of teams internationally who play at least as well as we do, and increasingly better.

© 2006 The Washington Post Company

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

And, for once, can you admit a defeat ? 2002, 2004, 2006 and counting... Those are not accidents... The world catched up... Back then the FIBA's rules where not a problem for the great NBAers but, obviously, the world took the challenge. Period.

The world hasn't caught up. The world puts together teams while USA Basketball puts together jersey sales.

[Phenomanul]

We should take the best of both worlds....

1. FIBA Trapezoid Lane > NBA Rectangle Lane
It spaces the floor better and allows more back cuts to the basket; which are always entertaining to watch.

2. NBA 3pt line > FIBA 3pt line
For the same reasoning as number 1, it too spaces the floor better.

3. NBA 48 minute game (12 minute quarters) > FIBA 40 minute game (10 minute quarters)
No one wants to pay for such a short show!!!

4. FIBA Goaltending Rule > NBA Goaltending Rule
It only happens maybe five or six times per game... but it makes the game more interesting and dramatic. Imagine tapping out a game winning free-throw as it is rattling around the rim... DRAMA!!!

5. NBA 6 personal foul limit > FIBA 5 personal foul limit
No one wants to see star players in foul trouble every single game do they???

6. FIBA Ball > NBA Ball
I've always thought the NBA ball was too big... I know my hands aren't as big as players from the NBA but slightly smaller balls allow for better dribbling... less deflections, and require better rebounding instincts. Not to mention more people are able to dunk it...

7. FIBA time out rule > NBA time out rule
I like the fact that only the coach can call time outs... It gives the game more flow.

8. NBA playoff series format > FIBA single elimination format
Best of 3 would be a suitable compromise. And what's with all these back-to-backs in an official tournament? People want to see teams match up against each other with their better rested selves.

9. NBA Refs and FIBA Refs both suck....
-- when will they incorporate better technologies?
-- FIBA refs miss several calls due to lack of consistency among the different world leagues...
-- NBA refs miss calls due to owner intimidation and the Stern-factor... and for wanting to take the spotlight...


There are probably some other points.


The verdict 4-1-4.... FIBA and NBA should adopt rules from each other....

[polandprzem]

The verdict 4-1-4.... FIBA and NBA should adopt rules from each other....

In your opinion ofcourse

[Phenomanul]

In your opinion ofcourse


Just trying to take the best from both worlds...

[SMLT]

Right, right...

Team USA lost but that's meaningless. Only wins have a meaning for Team USA... Everything else can be explained (coach, players, rules, refs, ball, injuries, food, weather and, especialy, arrogance). USA should know... They lived it already with the NHL...

[polandprzem]

Just trying to take the best from both worlds...

Well you know - I think the NBA has got better rules. The problem right now is with this "new ones". LImiting the contact. But all in all this rule had to be introduce to the game because the players now are more athletic and are based on power. Take a look at the '80 games. It was tough but not brutal. That's why they've changd the rules (in 2000?) to open up the offense. What could be done? Mario Elie once said that they should widen the floor because of physical and atletic players. They need more space.

Well we have more space in NBA right now. 1. rules, 2. 3-pt line. The basketball would die without that line.

We have more indywidal playes in NBA, and it's mostly about the marketing. Like someone said on players you can make more money then on a team. That is true. And who do not like acrobatic slamdunks? Something that DrJ awed the americans, and then MJ awed the world.
It is more interesting to the massess then a great team play without "fireworks" like it is in Europe.

But we can choose what we like to see. we have so many teams in NBA and the Worls that it is not a problem for the fans. Although the problem could be in that that NBA has the best players (big %). How to show their skills? How we want to see them? Do we want jumpshots or penetrations? The best bball players.

I do not know bout you, I love team play. And spurs can play that way.


The zone. In NBA there is zone, but realy we haven't seen great zone in NBA and the players are choosing to play an iso. Like it was in '90. Take a look at Cleveland. It's all LeBron. Well when was Hughes then they could play something troghetgher. But the whole concept is on LeBron (sometimes they passes inside to Z. :rolleyes
I like the mixed up defenses. 2-3, 3-2, indywidual, with preasure etc. (Detroit was fantastic in closing the 3-pt line).
Ohh sorry for that story

[Zunni]

The world hasn't caught up. The world puts together teams while USA Basketball puts together jersey sales.
Exactly. Other country's FIBA programs >>>>>> USA Barfball. I really think the USA would do MUCH better if they went back to the college kids and bootcamp.

[SMLT]

One would argue that spacing the floor is one of the reasons of NBA's ball regression... Space (and defensive rules) leads to isolation and/or h2h as legit offensive solutions that, in turns, leads to the death of the game...

My opinion at least.

Great article above by the way and humble on top of it... So rare...

>> "I really think the USA would do MUCH better if they went back to the college kids and bootcamp"

This one is just amazing... NCAA players would be crushed even by second grade national teams... Crushed... Physically, vice, game comprehension, fundamentals...

[Bruno]

We should take the best of both worlds....
1. FIBA Trapezoid Lane > NBA Rectangle Lane
2. NBA 3pt line > FIBA 3pt line
3. NBA 48 minute game (12 minute quarters) > FIBA 40 minute game
4. FIBA Goaltending Rule > NBA Goaltending Rule
5. NBA 6 personal foul limit > FIBA 5 personal foul limit
6. FIBA Ball > NBA Ball
7. FIBA time out rule > NBA time out rule
8. NBA playoff series format > FIBA single elimination format
9. NBA Refs and FIBA Refs both suck....


My opinion :
1. Don't forget that defenders can stay more than 3 second far from an opponent in the paint with FIBA rules. NBA rules space the floor more than FIBA rules. BTW, I don't like the 3 second in defense NBA rule.
2. I think that every competetion should have the same rules, The NBA line is too far for youth players but I agree that the FIBA line is too close. A 3 point line between both is maybe the best solution.
3. Agree.
4. Agree.
5. 48min/6foul = 1 foul allowed per 8min, 40min/5foul = 1 foul allowed per 8min. If you decide to play 48 min, 6 fouls is the good solution.
6. We will see what will happen with the new NBA ball but the new NBA ball is quite close to the FIBA ball.
7. Agree and disagree. The fact that you can't play the inbound pass from the opposite half court in crunch time with FIBA rules sucks.
8. What will NBA teams say if their players plays a WC with 20 games ?
9. Agree even if I hate that all stars get calls way more easily than other players in nba.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Right, right...

Team USA lost but that's meaningless. Only wins have a meaning for Team USA... Everything else can be explained (coach, players, rules, refs, ball, injuries, food, weather and, especialy, arrogance). USA should know... They lived it already with the NHL...

The NBA could put up any of its championship winning teams and win every game by 20 points.

The problem is USA basketball is still stuck on stupid. They try to put together teams based on jersey sales and who has the most valuable basketball card instead of putting together a true team.

I don't get the NHL comparison, Canada has always been better at hockey than anything America could put together. Same for the Russians. That's not a surprise. If you're going to make an argument, at least bring a decent take.

[Sway]

My opinion :
6. We will see what will happen with the new NBA ball but the new NBA ball is quite close to the FIBA ball.

So we cant say our balls are bigger anymore? :lol

[polandprzem]

2 things Bruno

1. 3pt line is where it should be in NBA. You do not want to have a traffic on the floor. Remember the 1996? And Shaq 3pointer (was it 96?). To me that kind of spaceing is important and do not allowe the players who cannot hit from beyond the line to "take a chance"

2. The defensive 3 seconds to me is a good decision. It ofcourse kills some of the zone but allowe players going to the baseline more and that's good.

[polandprzem]

The better are bigger balls for pro's,
I like size numba se7en

[Bruno]

2 things Bruno

1. 3pt line is where it should be in NBA. You do not want to have a traffic on the floor. Remember the 1996? And Shaq 3pointer (was it 96?). To me that kind of spaceing is important and do not allowe the players who cannot hit from beyond the line to "take a chance"

2. The defensive 3 seconds to me is a good decision. It ofcourse kills some of the zone but allowe players going to the baseline more and that's good.

1. I'm not sure that having a 3 point line 1ft or 2ft closer will have a huge influence on the spacing.

2. It helps slashers and a dunk is more impressive than a jumpshot but jumpshoots are a huge part of basket : it's not only a atheltic game but it's too a skill game. I find that nba is too much a slashing league.

[polandprzem]

1. I'm not sure that having a 3 point line 1ft or 2ft closer will have a huge influence on the spacing.
So why do you want a new line?



2. It helps slashers and a dunk is more impressive than a jumpshot but jumpshoots are a huge part of basket : it's not only a atheltic game but it's too a skill game. I find that nba is too much a slashing league.
Maybe so. But I think it was starting with Jordan and Nique and "showtime".

But yes we can see a tendency to slash 50% of the time. Wade, james are the excamples which should not be followed. But they are the kids of Jordans era. Who we can blame for what has happened to the game?

[Bruno]

So why do you want a new line?


because I want that everybody play with the same 3 point line and the NBA 3 point line is too far for young players (NCAA, high school, U20, U18...). A 3 point line at 22 ft is a good solution to me.

[polandprzem]

ehhhhh

[gus]

wtf are you talking about?

Yeah, I mean that FIBA basket is inferior. Just look next OCtober when the CSKA MOSCOW (Euroleague Champion ) vs. SPURS .-

US Basket is not representative of Whole NBA.- In NBA there are some ballclubs that play with some strategy.

Gus

[polandprzem]

Yeah, I mean that FIBA basket is inferior. Just look next OCtober when the CSKA MOSCOW (Euroleague Champion ) vs. SPURS .-

US Basket is not representative of Whole NBA.- In NBA there are some ballclubs that play with some strategy.

Gus

October?

You wanna bet about the spread?

[gus]

October?

You wanna bet about the spread?


Spurs by no less than 15.-

Ettore Messina is a good coach, but has no chance

[Renu_]

1. FIBA Trapezoid Lane > NBA Rectangle Lane
It spaces the floor better and allows more back cuts to the basket; which are always entertaining to watch.

2. NBA 3pt line > FIBA 3pt line
For the same reasoning as number 1, it too spaces the floor better.

3. NBA 48 minute game (12 minute quarters) > FIBA 40 minute game (10 minute quarters)
No one wants to pay for such a short show!!!

4. FIBA Goaltending Rule > NBA Goaltending Rule
It only happens maybe five or six times per game... but it makes the game more interesting and dramatic. Imagine tapping out a game winning free-throw as it is rattling around the rim... DRAMA!!!

5. NBA 6 personal foul limit > FIBA 5 personal foul limit
No one wants to see star players in foul trouble every single game do they???

6. FIBA Ball > NBA Ball
I've always thought the NBA ball was too big... I know my hands aren't as big as players from the NBA but slightly smaller balls allow for better dribbling... less deflections, and require better rebounding instincts. Not to mention more people are able to dunk it...

7. FIBA time out rule > NBA time out rule
I like the fact that only the coach can call time outs... It gives the game more flow.

8. NBA playoff series format > FIBA single elimination format
Best of 3 would be a suitable compromise. And what's with all these back-to-backs in an official tournament? People want to see teams match up against each other with their better rested selves.

9. NBA Refs and FIBA Refs both suck....
-- when will they incorporate better technologies?
-- FIBA refs miss several calls due to lack of consistency among the different world leagues...
-- NBA refs miss calls due to owner intimidation and the Stern-factor... and for wanting to take the spotlight...


Nice, i totally agree with this. I can sign this now! :tu

[Zunni]

October?

You wanna bet about the spread?
Are you saying CSKA is going to cover or that they will win? Nobody GAF if they cover the spread. He's saying that an NBA team is still better than a Euroleague team, and I agree. The big downfall for the US in the FIBA tourneys isn't talent, it's teamwork, and that isn't a problem for a real team that is used to playing together. It's only when they throw together these hodgepodge groups of ball dominators that the US is in trouble.

[gus]

Sorry it is not CSKA, it is Maccabi Tel Aviv ( Finalist in Euroleague in the last 3 seasons and champion in two of them ).

Anyway the point is the same.-

Gus

[polandprzem]

Are you saying CSKA is going to cover or that they will win? Nobody GAF if they cover the spread. He's saying that an NBA team is still better than a Euroleague team, and I agree. The big downfall for the US in the FIBA tourneys isn't talent, it's teamwork, and that isn't a problem for a real team that is used to playing together. It's only when they throw together these hodgepodge groups of ball dominators that the US is in trouble.



FIBA basket is inferior

I thought maybe a spread will be a nice solution.

Just keep that in mind- the spurs game.

[Sway]

October?

You wanna bet about the spread?


I thought maybe a spread will be a nice solution.

Just keep that in mind- the spurs game.

If FIBA > NBA why do you need a spread. A top Euroleague team should be able to beat a top NBA team. That is if you really believe that FIBA > NBA BS.

[Bruno]

Some of you haven't understand this thread.
It's not : "Are euroleague's teams better than nba's team ?"
It's : "What kind of BB do you like more : FIBA or NBA?"

[polandprzem]

If FIBA > NBA why do you need a spread. A top Euroleague team should be able to beat a top NBA team. That is if you really believe that FIBA > NBA BS.

Do you know what I believe?

Nope

[Sway]

Do you know what I believe?

Nope

:lol

I dont think you know what you believe.

[polandprzem]

:lol

I dont think you know what you believe.

Realy?

Why you think so?


Or maybe it's just you who reads in mind hm?

[Sway]

Realy?

Why you think so?


Or maybe it's just you who reads in mind hm?

Kid all you do is contradict yourself. You are either a hypocrite or you are talking out your ass to get your post count up.

[polandprzem]

Kid all you do is contradict yourself. You are either a hypocrite or you are talking out your ass to get your post count up.

First of all kid what is your problem?
Second - shiet man. Where I have said that FIBA is better then NBA? Find me that post. The feackin serious one.
Third - If it makes you happy I can ignore you
Forth - you wanna talk about basketball talk about basketball

ps. I think I have to explain my every post - damn.

[Sway]

I do not like usa TEAM much. But I do not hate them. But sometimes I just want to angry some of the posters here. But you don't know that.


More or less.

And the others who were so fascinated in usa basketball.

What a losers :loser


I can read the NBA pussie fans, and then I know what is important in basketball.


Frankly speaking that was just an irony.


Stupid leauge

pussies and complainers


I root for Argentina ofcourse. I do not like the usa much.


USA suck a$$


GO argentina go! But I think Spain will win it all this year



1) My problem is that you have been hating on Team USA, NBA, and U.S. since day 1.

2) WTF are you doing on this NBA related forum following a U.S. team (Spurs) if you dislike the above mentioned things so much?

3) Do you think it would fly if I went to a Polish league (or any other country’s) site and talked shit about their league, national team, and country?

4) Why don’t you use a little common sense and think before you post.

[gus]

Some of you haven't understand this thread.
It's not : "Are euroleague's teams better than nba's team ?"
It's : "What kind of BB do you like more : FIBA or NBA?"

Yes it is the point, because the main source of FIBA (Including Argentina, Greece and Spain NT ) is Euroleague and where best FIBA basket is played.
And in USA best basket is NBA.-

Gus

[gus]

Another issue.

If FIBA is better than NBA why in the hell the best players of FIBA are NBA

(From the All tournament 4 of 5 are in NBA ) In the last competition 5/5.-

The best players are the Gasol, Ginobili, Nowitzki, Anthony and so on.

FIBA is about pride for your country.-

Gus

[Bruno]

Yes it is the point

No, this thread isn't about comparing the level of FIBA and NBA.
It's about what you like more, you can like more FIBA than NBA even if the level in nba is higher.
Re-read the first post : it's "I like more FIBA than NBA because refs are better and it's more team oriented" and not "FIBA level is higher than NBA level"

It's true that NBA level is higher than FIBA level but it's not the point of this thread.

[polandprzem]

1) My problem is that you have been hating on Team USA, NBA, and U.S. since day 1.

2) WTF are you doing on this NBA related forum following a U.S. team (Spurs) if you dislike the above mentioned things so much?

3) Do you think it would fly if I went to a Polish league (or any other country’s) site and talked shit about their league, national team, and country?

4) Why don’t you use a little common sense and think before you post.

Is this guy for real?



:lol


Do not worry. I'm not hating NBA. I love NBA man.
My problem with usa basketball is their basketball arrogance. When Larry and Gregg were coaches it looked diferently. But few guys are pissing me off. Like most real bball fans. So you know.
I just wanted to provoke some of the posters etc. I do things like that.
Another thing is that I use dangerous sarcasm.

That is it.

Be well :)

[gus]

No, this thread isn't about comparing the level of FIBA and NBA.
It's about what you like more, you can like more FIBA than NBA even if the level in nba is higher.
Re-read the first post : it's "I like more FIBA than NBA because refs are better and it's more team oriented" and not "FIBA level is higher than NBA level"

It's true that NBA level is higher than FIBA level but it's not the point of this thread.


OK, if it like you said. Yes I like more the concept of FIBA team oriented play, but regarding refs. in FIBA THEY SUCK.

Just watch Euroleague and you-ll see that refs. has more influence in results than in NBA.

That-s the reason why all Serbian, Greek and European Coaches stay the whole match protesting. That is in order to do not get robbed.

FIBA with the boss Boris Stankovic directed the officiating to give the top European countries some advantage. For me FIBA EUROPE refs are mafia.

But Australian and southamerican referees are pretty cool and up to the standard of basket. The american officers are very good IMO.

So.= FIBA GAMe is OK, FIBA OFFICERS IN EUROPE SUCKS.

gus

[Sway]

Is this guy for real?



:lol


Do not worry. I'm not hating NBA. I love NBA man.
My problem with usa basketball is their basketball arrogance. When Larry and Gregg were coaches it looked diferently. But few guys are pissing me off. Like most real bball fans. So you know.
I just wanted to provoke some of the posters etc. I do things like that.
Another thing is that I use dangerous sarcasm.

That is it.

Be well :)

:lmao :lmao :lmao

So basically you are saying:


Is this guy for real? --->(Fuck! I cant believe this guy owned me twice in one thread)



:lol --->(How do I respond without looking like more of a jackass?)


Do not worry. I'm not hating NBA. I love NBA man. --->(Ok...I admit I am a hypocrite)
My problem with usa basketball is their basketball arrogance. When Larry and Gregg were coaches it looked diferently. --->(Actually I love the USA) But few guys are pissing me off. Like most real bball fans. --->(I’m also a hater) So you know.
I just wanted to provoke some of the posters etc. I do things like that. ---> (I was just acting like a lil biatch)
Another thing is that I use dangerous sarcasm. --->(Just ignore me I often talk out my ass)

That is it. --->(Please dont call me out anymore)

Be well :) --->(I promise to stop talking shit about Team USA, the U.S., and the NBA)

[bendmz]

look at it this way, let's just have a "WORLD LEAGUE"( imagine that, a WORLD CHAMPION)... everyone play a season, however many games within their own country and have the pro answer to March Madness in April, May or June.... that would make one hell of a "BRACKET".... :elephant

[mathbzh]

Just one word about 'We didn't bring our top players".
1) Wade, Lebron, Melo, Howard are not that bad...
2) Where are Shaq,TD, KG, Iverson? I'd love to see a real dream team again.
But TD and Iverson were here during the last olympics and it didn't change anything.
You can only have five players on the ground at the same time. So it is quiet useless to overload the team with talent. The only star I would have had to the team is Ray Allen to give USA some 3pt consistency against zone (and of course Bruce for defensive intensity).
The actual US roster is way more talented that any other one. USA just need team chemistry not additional stars.
FIBA is all about the team. That is what the greek coach said "Basketball is not just about dribles and shoots and we prove it".
3) Spain has destroyed the greeks with Gasol out.
4) No greek player is that amazing but the greek team is great.

[zeleni]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

So basically you are saying:


You are not very bright or respectful, aren't you? Poland rules, and you are a newbie.
I'm pretty confident i already posted about your "USA haters" team.

[polandprzem]

The book: "Poland rules" will be released soon...

[Zunni]

The book: "Poland rules" will be released soon...
Wasn't that originally published in 1938?
:spin

[polandprzem]

Wasn't that originally published in 1938?
:spin

maybe '39?


Hey - it's the new version. :D

[Kibic]

Just one.........
The actual US roster is way more talented that any other one. USA just need team chemistry not additional stars.
FIBA is all about the team. That is what the greek coach said "Basketball is not just about dribles and shoots and we prove it".

How do you actualy define "talent" in basketball?

Better in 1 on 1?
Jumping higher without the ball or/and with the ball?
Bigger biceps?
Better ii 2 on 2?
..
..
Better in 4 on 4?
Better in 5 on 5?

How would you measure "talent" in Basketball?

[polandprzem]

How do you actualy define "talent" in basketball?

Better in 1 on 1?
Jumping higher without the ball or/and with the ball?
Bigger biceps?
Better ii 2 on 2?
..
..
Better in 4 on 4?
Better in 5 on 5?

How would you measure "talent" in Basketball?

That's an ununswered question in a competiotion like that. You can say that one is more skilled then the other, but still it is a team sport.

The usa squad are better indywidualy whan it comes to athletic possibilieties or 1-1 play. But how to comapere them to the player who are more usefull in a team concept.
But damn - you can have many eam concepts...

I wonder the answer

[mathbzh]

The same way you can name an MVP... it is just a feeling

[mathbzh]

Maybe the spurs could win without Duncan... Maybe

[vanvannen]

It's not always about talent. There are other factors that play an important role. Determination, fearlessness, will to win, intelligence.
It's not about trying to get a new shoe contract in China when you don't really give a shit whether your team wins or looses.

[ALVAREZ6]

It's not about trying to get a new shoe contract in China when you don't really give a shit whether your team wins or looses.
According to LeBronze, as soon as he heard that the WC was going to be in Japan, he jumped on it, for business. That's right, he went to Japan to sell himself and his shoes/clothes since basketball is getting more popular in Asia.

[gus]

Speaking about "Lebronze" I saw a photo of Chapu Nocioni, trying to kill Le Bronze and held by one of US Players. LeBronze looked afraid.

What happened?

Gus

[polandprzem]

Speaking about "Lebronze" I saw a photo of Chapu Nocioni, trying to kill Le Bronze and held by one of US Players. LeBronze looked afraid.

What happened?

Gus

Jeez man - he (Bronze) have to take care about his image. His face.

[Sway]

You are not very bright or respectful, aren't you? Poland rules, and you are a newbie.
I'm pretty confident i already posted about your "USA haters" team.

:blah :blah :blah

Good first grade come back. Here is an idea, how about you mind your business and let your BF fight his own battles.

[polandprzem]

:blah :blah :blah

Good first grade come back. Here is an idea, how about you mind your business and let your BF fight his own battles.

:sleep

[Sway]

:sleep

:lol

[temujin]

How do you actualy define "talent" in basketball?

Better in 1 on 1?

Circus.

Jumping higher without the ball or/and with the ball?

Track and field.

Bigger biceps?

Boxing.

Better ii 2 on 2?
..
..
Better in 4 on 4?
Better in 5 on 5?

Got it.

How would you measure "talent" in Basketball?

Winning a playoff game by blocking the shot of someone 15 cm taller than you in the last seconds,
after scoring ZERO points.

That's talent.

Did you see that on the USA Team?

[temujin]

In FIBA, the best team usually wins, in the NBA not at all.

Disagree.

In FIBA, the refs are mostly in the background, in the NBA they take the spotlight.

Disagree.

In FIBA, everything happens much faster, a 9 pt lead is huge, in the NBA there are so many timeouts, and game stoppages, the players have plenty time to gather their thoughts.

Agree. And all those timeouts are dead boring.

In FIBA, individual talent does not give too much an advantage, the NBA is all about individual talent.

Agree. I wonder when they will finally switch to a bunch of one-on-one contests.

IMO the NBA is mainly for "entertainment", marketing, selling t-shirts, etc

Correct.

but when you really wanna know which team is really the best, FIBA > NBA

It seems so. They are bocoming two separate sports.
The annoying thing is to hear that the team winning the NBA Finals is dispatched as World Champion.
I guess they mean of NBA-type basketball.

[ALVAREZ6]

It seems so. They are bocoming two separate sports.
The annoying thing is to hear that the team winning the NBA Finals is dispatched as World Champion.
I guess they mean of NBA-type basketball.
That's just what Americans think...


World Champion Miami Heat!!!!! (even though USA hasn't won gold in a while, and aside from Toronto, who did Miami have to play ever outside the US???)

World Champion Boston Red Sox!!! (whenever that was, I could care less about baseball) Wait a minute, USA didn't even win the World Baseball Classic???

[samikeyp]

It seems so. They are bocoming two separate sports.
The annoying thing is to hear that the team winning the NBA Finals is dispatched as World Champion.
I guess they mean of NBA-type basketball.


That's just what Americans think...

Yes because all Americans think alike....oh wait...

http://www.photofile.com/Photos/Photos_Of_The_Day/06_02_02/SpursChampionshipBanner.jpg

Yep...the generalization is true. :rolleyes

[smeagol]

Yes because all Americans think alike....oh wait...
Mikey, there is no question all Americans do not think that way (and you are living proof of it). But you have to admit a large number of Americans (I do not know how many) do think that way.

[samikeyp]

I am sure some do.

[Kibic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kibic



How do you actualy define "talent" in basketball?

Better in 1 on 1?

Circus.

Jumping higher without the ball or/and with the ball?

Track and field.

Bigger biceps?

Boxing.

Better ii 2 on 2?
..
..
Better in 4 on 4?
Better in 5 on 5?

Got it.

How would you measure "talent" in Basketball?



Winning a playoff game by blocking the shot of someone 15 cm taller than you in the last seconds,
after scoring ZERO points.

That's talent.

Did you see that on the USA Team?

So it is all in winning a game? BB game? Like WC final?
No, I did not see that on USA team in semifinal against Greece. They have some blocks, 3pts, even a lot of dunks but....they loose a game

[mathbzh]

The funny thing kinic is that I am pretty sure I agree with you. My first post was just to point out that FIBA is not about individual talent. USA didn't loose because they don't have good players. If they want to win a FIBA title, they don't have to replace someone with Iverson, put KG in the mix shake it 2 minutes and that's it :)
They need to learn how to play FIBA BB. That is the big issue. It is hard because in FIBA BB you need to forgot about your superhero suit (Flash get out of this body :elephant ).

I am french so I will give an exemple about how I see talent:
Diaw is known to be a great talent since he is a kid.
Before being drafted he was named MVP in the french league becoming the first MVP scoring less than 10ppg.
Then he was drafted by this crappy team in Atlanta. The kid disappear for two years.
He became a bench player in the worst team in the league. But his talent was still there.
Then he comes to Phoenix has a throw in in JJ deal. In the good system is talent was allowed to explosed. He became a starter in a top 3 team in the west and last year MIP.
IMO USA playing FIBA BB is the Lebron's Atlanta.

[Kibic]

The funny thing kinic is that I am pretty sure I agree with you. My first post was just to point out that FIBA is not about individual talent. USA didn't loose because they don't have good players. If they want to win a FIBA title, they don't have to replace someone with Iverson, put KG in the mix shake it 2 minutes and that's it :)
They need to learn how to play FIBA BB. That is the big issue. It is hard because in FIBA BB you need to forgot about your superhero suit (Flash get out of this body :elephant ).

I am french so I will give an exemple about how I see talent:
Diaw is known to be a great talent since he is a kid.
Before being drafted he was named MVP in the french league becoming the first MVP scoring less than 10ppg.
Then he was drafted by this crappy team in Atlanta. The kid disappear for two years.
He became a bench player in the worst team in the league. But his talent was still there.
Then he comes to Phoenix has a throw in in JJ deal. In the good system is talent was allowed to explosed. He became a starter in a top 3 team in the west and last year MIP.
IMO USA playing FIBA BB is the Lebron's Atlanta.
Ok. Now I understand. :) I agree with you. The same was with some other european NBA player. Never forgoten Drazen Petrovic who sit one and a half year at Portland. And boy was he a starr in Europe.

In addition there is one thing that bother me too. Those diferences in NBA and FIBA BB? Are they realy so important. I mean if any team in NBA would play more combinatoric BB they would also have a lot of it. I will put it this way.
In NBA you don't have to play combinatoric BB. You can play 1 on 1. But you could play?
In FiBA depends on oponents defens many times you can't play 1 on 1.