have we really improved?

[willie]

have we even managed to stay at the same level? im not so sure.

[sprrs]

Stay at the same level? Sure.

Improved? Depends on how Butler and/or Elson pan out.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

have we even managed to stay at the same level? im not so sure.

Yes... Rasho isn't our starting center anymore

[Dex]

I think sprrs pretty much made it as simple as it gets.

I don't think there is much doubt we stayed at the same level. We've still got our core intact with the Big Four as well as Finley, Horry, and Barry bringing in the triple-threat triple-threat off the bench. Though we lost our complete center tandem in Nazr and Rasho, I don't really detect much doubt that Elson and Butler will be able to produce just as much as they were able to last season, which wasn't much. Udrih filling the backup pointgaurd spot is, honestly, more promising then the results of the Van Exel experiment. And we've got a few new pieces to play with.

As long as Elson / Butler don't turn out to be complete lemons, then the Spurs maintained their level of talent over the summer, especially when you take into consideration the difference a healthy Tim Duncan, and an entire Spurs team playing with a chip on its shoulder, can make.

If Elson manages to...not completely suck and Butler develops into the potential he seems to have, then the Spurs will once again be lauded as one of the smartest organizations in the bizz.

Of course, there's always that small chance that things will go awry and nothing will pan out, but from this point...it seems the Spurs managed to have a succesful enough summer. And it looked pretty doubtful at one point.

We still need a goddamn long 3 though. :lol

[Jonathan]

RC Bufford has been a shithole this off-season he couldn't even land us 1 legit big-man whos proven.

[Kori Ellis]

RC Bufford has been a shithole this off-season he couldn't even land us 1 legit big-man whos proven.

Can you stop with your stupidity?

You come here making up lies that you work for the Spurs, now you just sit around bashing the front office.

It's a long commute from Irvine, CA to work at the practice facility :rolleyes But now that you got fired, maybe you can get a job closer to home.

[Jonathan]

Thanks for the warm advice. but i'm not bashing the Spurs front-office infact RC Buford is still the best GM out there but i'm pretty disappointed in him this off-season.

Jackie Butler and Elson are so unpredicticable that either move can turn out to be a disaster. we need proven big-man oh well...

[willie]

dont hurt yourself running backwards

[Dre_7]

Spurs are better now then they were last year. Their regular season record may or may not reflect that, but I am very confident that if fully healthy in the postseason SA can and will win their forth title.

[Nero]

We still need a goddamn long 3 though

Meet Matt Bonner --- defensive stopper and rebounder extraordinare.

[Solid D]

Nero brings up a good point, albeit a sarcastic one.

To really judge whether the Spurs have improved, we will need to see how they have improved their TEAM defense. This talent on-paper business doesn't work too well. However, Butler and Bonner aren't exactly defensive specialists. Elson is a thin center with modest shot-blocking and rebounding numbers.

Last season, the Spurs displayed their worst defensive statistics of the Tim Duncan era with a .433 Opp. FG%. The NBA hand-check and other rules changes - created to increase scoring - have added to this problem, but we could all see the Spurs were lacking defensively. Let's not even talk about the playoff defense, please (.453).

Let's all hope last year's playoff performance wasn't the Spurs' Fonzie jumping the shark moment in time.

[RC's Boss]

Thanks for the warm advice. but i'm not bashing the Spurs front-office infact RC Buford is still the best GM out there but i'm pretty disappointed in him this off-season.

Jackie Butler and Elson are so unpredicticable that either move can turn out to be a disaster. we need proven big-man oh well...
So what "proven" big man would you have gone after if you were GM armed w/ no salary cap space smart guy! :madrun

[Kori Ellis]

Nero brings up a good point, albeit a sarcastic one.

To really judge whether the Spurs have improved, we will need to see how they have improved their TEAM defense. This talent on-paper business doesn't work too well. However, Butler and Bonner aren't exactly defensive specialists. Elson is a thin center with modest shot-blocking and rebounding numbers.

Last season, the Spurs displayed their worst defensive statistics of the Tim Duncan era with a .433 Opp. FG%. The NBA hand-check and other rules changes - created to increase scoring - have added to this problem, but we could all see the Spurs were lacking defensively. Let's not even talk about the playoff defense, please (.453).

Let's all hope last year's playoff performance wasn't the Spurs' Fonzie jumping the shark moment in time.


Despite the .433 in the regular season, Spurs held opponents to 88.75 points -- 2nd least in the league. So I don't think it was that bad. However the playoffs (and probably playing no centers was the big reason) led to giving up 101 ppg.

I don't expect this upcoming season's Spurs team to be even close to last year's numbers in the regular season. Unless one of the new big makes tremendous strides defensively, they are light years behind the Rasho/Nazr combo.

This year team hopefully will be more versatile offensively however. I am more unsure of the frontline than I have been in a long while. I have no idea what the Spurs will get out of Elson/Butler/Bonner/Oberto/Horry. I could see it being horrendous.

[sprrs]

But how many of those points were second-chance points? That has the biggest impact in my mind. They always managed to get a stop, just not the rebound.

[Nikos]

Spurs might be a little worse in the regular season -- but come playoff time it won't make a difference considering Nazr and Rasho weren't going to see a lot of playing time anyway.

If the big three are healthy the Spurs are very good. If banged up they are not better than last season.

[wildbill2u]

have we even managed to stay at the same level? im not so sure.
The faceless one: So little talk about him that you forget he came over in the trade with Bonner. I'm gonna give this one a zero until I'm sure they plan to keep him.

Horry? Who knows if Horry can still be of much value. His whole career has been long periods of seeming indifference punctuated by miracle shots that redeemed him. As a 3 point specialist, Horry had ice water in his veins. Too bad they are vericose veins now. I think it is probably time to cut him and free up a spot if there is any young player with some upside out there. There probably isn't. A downgrade due to advancing age.

Bonner > Sean Marks ? Actually I thought the Kiwi shot well when he was in the games, but the coaches obviously didn't think he could play much. Surely Bonner will get more minutes and may steal some from Horry.

Center: we gave up proven guys with modest talent and too large contracts for unproven guys with modest talents and smaller contracts. Could be a wash or if they don't come through to Rasho/Nasr level, we're worse off marginally.

Small forward? Hopefully only a modest downgrade because of aging of Bowen and Finley. Here's a position where you have two acclaimed vets and we still worry about it. What does that tell you?

Barry will be Barry. Another step slower on defense and he can't get any smarter. Will the shots fall this year? Will he take them?

Beno should be better for simply having another year in the league. He will have to gain the confidence of the coaches that he can do the job as backup. I wonder if he could be faster if he lost weight?

Tim = last year but probably not > than last year. He is another year older. The outside bank shot is history so he'll play more of an inside game. Hopefully his foot will be better and let him play.

Tony > than last year. I don't think he's reached his full potential. So far, he's been a little better each year.

Manu surely must be > than last year. He didn't play up to his previous level.

Summary: We make the playoffs easily as usual, but may or may not make it to the WCF. We are right on the edge and could go either way with the squad we have now.

Let's be optimistic. A couple of calls and a ball or two bounces our way in the playoffs and we go to the Finals. A couple of calls and a ball or two bounces our way in the Finals and we win it all. Go Spurs!

[SpursWillOwn]

our 3 point threats off the bench seems pretty much useless against dallas, and that is why spurs adjusted this off season, to match up with mavs. The reason why our 3 point threats sorta faded could be due to lack of offensive execution or just superior perimeter defense by the mavs

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

And no-one even mentions Williams, yet again. It seems they aren't going to trade him, so he'll get 10-15 mins off the bench behind Bowen and I think his hustle play will surprise everyone.

The new centres are probably a wash on offence (although Butler has potential to grow as a post player) and worse on D, primarity because Rasho really could play our system.

There's a big question mark over our team this year, but I don't think the offseason (available FAs, cap situation) provided us with any better alternatives than those we chose, EXCEPT we should have grabbed Jumaine Jones while he was out there. That was a stupid miss.

Anyway, I reckon our guys come through as always and win somewhere in the mid 50s. How the D gels will determine out playoff success.

Overall, I am optomistic and am particularly curious to see if Butler and Udrih can take the next step up to solid roleplayer status.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

Meet Matt Bonner --- defensive stopper and rebounder extraordinare.

ahahahahahahahahahah your kidding right..

[SequSpur]

who is williams?

[Kori Ellis]

who is williams?

http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/nba/profiles/players/65x90/3016.jpg

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The guy who will back up Bruce Bowen and throw himself all over the floor, he came with Bonner and has an expiring contract. I suspect he may be traded midseason for a young 3 prospect, but until them he will hustle hustle hustle!

[Nero]

Small forward? Hopefully only a modest downgrade because of aging of Bowen and Finley.

Yeah, while our rivals have Artest, Bonzi, Carmelo, Dirk, J-Howard, Lamar Odom, Sean Marion, AK, Antoine Walker, LBJ, at the SF. Wouldn't be so bad if we still have 2 bigs at all times to keep people out of the lane, but without that Spurs are getting overpowered by everyone.
How the fuck can Finley even be considered a SF? That's ridiculous.

[gospursgojas]

Have you all ever stoped to think that the secret may lay in the players we already have, playing better than they did last year???

Like a year older Parker

Like a pissed off Ginobili

and

Like a HEALTHY DUNCAN

We were only one shot away from a 2nd consecutive trip to the Finals.



Yeah, while our rivals have Artest, Bonzi, Carmelo, Dirk, J-Howard, Lamar Odom, Sean Marion, AK, Antoine Walker, LBJ, at the SF.

So did they last year....

[Gummi]

The off-season so far has been good. I've never liked Francisco Elson's game and I wasn't too pleased when we signed him. Bonner and Butler are two players that I'm excited to see in a Spurs uniform. I'm counting on Butler to be a great role player in 2 or 3 years time, a starting center caliber player.

I like the Jacque Vaughn signing, he and Beno can share the backup spot depending on matchup. Vaughn is a defensive PG while Beno is an offensive PG.

I've come to terms with not signing Luis Scola. I've wanted the guy for two years and it seems I have to wait for another year at least to get him.

All in all I like the moves and I hope that Elson proves me wrong with his play. I'm expecting a great season for the Spurs and hopefully an injury free season for our main players.

[z0sa]

The faceless one: So little talk about him that you forget he came over in the trade with Bonner. I'm gonna give this one a zero until I'm sure they plan to keep him.

Horry? Who knows if Horry can still be of much value. His whole career has been long periods of seeming indifference punctuated by miracle shots that redeemed him. As a 3 point specialist, Horry had ice water in his veins. Too bad they are vericose veins now. I think it is probably time to cut him and free up a spot if there is any young player with some upside out there. There probably isn't. A downgrade due to advancing age.

Bonner > Sean Marks ? Actually I thought the Kiwi shot well when he was in the games, but the coaches obviously didn't think he could play much. Surely Bonner will get more minutes and may steal some from Horry.

Center: we gave up proven guys with modest talent and too large contracts for unproven guys with modest talents and smaller contracts. Could be a wash or if they don't come through to Rasho/Nasr level, we're worse off marginally.

Small forward? Hopefully only a modest downgrade because of aging of Bowen and Finley. Here's a position where you have two acclaimed vets and we still worry about it. What does that tell you?

Barry will be Barry. Another step slower on defense and he can't get any smarter. Will the shots fall this year? Will he take them?

Beno should be better for simply having another year in the league. He will have to gain the confidence of the coaches that he can do the job as backup. I wonder if he could be faster if he lost weight?

Tim = last year but probably not > than last year. He is another year older. The outside bank shot is history so he'll play more of an inside game. Hopefully his foot will be better and let him play.

Tony > than last year. I don't think he's reached his full potential. So far, he's been a little better each year.

Manu surely must be > than last year. He didn't play up to his previous level.

Summary: We make the playoffs easily as usual, but may or may not make it to the WCF. We are right on the edge and could go either way with the squad we have now.

Let's be optimistic. A couple of calls and a ball or two bounces our way in the playoffs and we go to the Finals. A couple of calls and a ball or two bounces our way in the Finals and we win it all. Go Spurs!

:lol alot of this is bs if you ask me.

first of all Tim Duncan's outside shot is fine. His game was always inside, hes a fucking pf for Godsakes, but he can still hit the outside shot fine.

Bonner is alot better than Marks.

Horry is Horry, old or not, hes still do what he needs to do because he doesn't play most of the season, he just plays during the playoffs... which kind of cancels out the age factor.

Barry and Findog are fine, specially Finley - he made every big shot, they just didn't lead to W's.

Centerwise, I think we got a definite upgrade.

[Extra Stout]

The guy who will back up Bruce Bowen and throw himself all over the floor, he came with Bonner and has an expiring contract. I suspect he may be traded midseason for a young 3 prospect, but until them he will hustle hustle hustle!
Will Williams even be on the active roster? I don't see his being in the top 12.

[EVAY]

The key to whether or not we improved is going to be a function of whether this lineup will necessitate a change in our defensive tactics. For all the years that we have had big men in the middle our defense was geared to "guiding toward the rim". Everyone who played spurs defense had to buy into that, and it pretty much worked just fine. It even worked during the regular season last year, except when we played without two big men in the middle.

Then, the playoffs. Our defense did not change tactics, and the same "drive em to the rim" scheme was employed with the embarrassing result that there was no shot blocker there to stop them once they got to the rim. Hence, the outrageous scoring percentage against us by Dallas.

My point is this: we can win with smaller "bigs" in the middle, but we can't win with smaller "bigs" and a defense that is geared toward driving shooters into to BIG "bigs". I don't think this is rocket science, but I sure haven't heard much about it. If we change our defesen, it doesn't matter whether or not the guys in the middle are big or not. But if we DON'T change our defense, then it matters hugely.

I have no idea if this off season made us better or worse. I agree that we have to wait and see. I just don't want to wait until after the Rodeo road trip for folks to start getting serious about how we set ourselves up for the playoff run.

[Obstructed_View]

As proven last year, the coach determines the fate of this team, regardless of who is on the roster. If the Spurs play one way for 82 games and then suddenly decide to change philosophy, they won't win no matter who is here.

[Bruno]

have we really improved? Hell no.

I'm pretty disapointed with our offseason. It's not finished and I still hope a trade but i don't see Spurs winning the title with this current roster.

1. Big men are basicly Duncan and 5 players who are, at best, average backups. Bonner is a great shooter but is a poor defender and rebounder, Elson isn't very talented, Horry is too old, Butler is just a very young prospect and Oberto isn't athletic enough. When your second best big men is that weak, it's a big concern.

2. We needed a big SF and we haven't get him. Williams is old and has been bad last year with injuries and weight problems, Melzer seems to be limited and Smith is a PF.

Of course it can work : the big 3 can be healthy, Beno has the level to be a very good backup PG and stops turnovers, our bigs D can improve with Pop as coach, Williams can be about at the same level that he was with NJ 18 month ago...

For the moment, I'm not really opstimistic but I would like to be wrong.

[LilMissSPURfect]

I've Improved.......

"Emotionally"!!!!


:lol :lol :lol :lol :spin :spin :spin :flag: :eyebrows

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I would've thought the 12 be:

Parker/Udrih
Ginobili/Finley/Barry
Bowen/Williams
Duncan/Bonner/Horry
Elson/Butler

with Oberto and Vaughn on the IL.

However, you may be right about Williams. If so, why the hell haven't haven't we traded his 3+ million (3.9?) expiring contract for something? Surely someone could use that?

If he isn't to be used, I would expect him to be gone by the deadline, unless there truly is a plan to clear salary for 2008.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

We're the same as last year, but older. So either we get left behind by the league. Or it's steady as she goes.

We're not exactly a broken team, so I'm just anticipating the upcoming season to be another potential title year as years before. The Spurs dumped two weak centers, so hopefully Elson and Butler bring something, which was better than the relative nothing Rasho and Nazr gave us this year in the Post Season.

[mabber]

Spurs will be fine. If they're healthy going into the playoffs they will have as good as chance as anyone to win the west & nba title. Dallas & Phoenix are their only competition in the west.

It's amazing how spoiled some of you Spur fans have got. I suppose it's just human nature after winning so much.

[Pero]

The Spurs dumped two weak centers, so hopefully Elson and Butler bring something, which was better than the relative nothing Rasho and Nazr gave us this year in the Post Season.

How will they bring something if they won`t play in the postseason like R&N? :lol

[Pero]

.... unless they bring cookies with them. :lol

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

How will they bring something if they won`t play in the postseason like R&N? :lol
:lol true, i'm just saying they were unusable in Pop's eyes against the Mavs, so maybe the two new guys will pose as usable?

[Obstructed_View]

I suppose it's just human nature after choking away the #1 seed. Again.
Fixed