Tony Parker the scorer or playmaker?

[Nikos]

This past season Parker improved his scoring by a decent amount. He was able to take more of the offensive load and become more efficient. All in all I would say he has become an elite scoring PG in this league. Only Arenas, Iverson are clearly superior scorers -- and probably only Nash and Billups are about on the same level in terms of pure scoring. So in essense Parker is a Top 5 PG as a scorer (most likely the third best last season).

Where he comes up weak is in the playmaking department. He is turnover prone and he doesn't generate a huge amount of assists. Basically he is not a pure PG nor particularly a good playmaker for others when compared with his PG peers.

While it is true that he plays with Duncan and Ginobili (who see a good chunk of the ball), that still doesn't mean that he can't be a little less turnover prone.

But lets just say hypothetically that if TP could improve either his playmaking Assist to Turnover Ratio or his scoring which would you want to see improve? Let me also add that an improved three point and possibly FT shot is included in this scoring package.

Lets say the Spurs remain a 95-98ppg scoring team and remain slow paced.

Would you rather see TP's statline look like this.....

1) 21.7ppg 5.8apg 3.1to 1.0spg 3.3rpg(improved three point shot by a decent amount but not a high percentage shooter, just a volume three point shooter who hits at a decent % -- slightly lower scoring efficiency than #2 scenario)

49% shooter (but better at the 3pt line by a decent, not HUGE amount)

or

2) 19.3ppg 7.1apg 2.2to 1.5spg 3.9rpg (a solid increase in scoring efficiency over scenario #1)

52-55% shooter but still a poor three point shooter, but maybe improves it slightly -- higher percentage but a low volume shooter -- maybe picks up more steals and rebounds


TP the versatile playmaker? Or TP the improved scorer with an improved shot?

[boutons_]

Tony said Pop told him last year to score, so he did.

I doubt that will change much this year, meaning Tony's development as playmaker/distributor will not be a Spurs' priority.

Tony probably didn't get much time with the WC and finger injury to improve his shot.

I would would much rather see Tony get everybody more involved in a balanced offense rather than Tony carrying so much of the scoring burden. He showed he can do that, so I'd like to see him be a better offensive quarterback.

[smeagol]

More assists and less points.

[Kori Ellis]

If Duncan/Manu can stay healthy, then Tony will evolve into a better playmaker. If he has to carry the bulk of the scoring load like last season, then he'll continue to become a better scorer.

[ShoogarBear]

Well, you certainly gilded the lily in your scenarios.

[aaronstampler]

I like my point guards to be passers first, scorers second. I'd prefer him to be the 3rd option and to get his turnovers down and to get Tim and Manu going early.

[gospursgojas]

More points and assts

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I prefer him to add some dimension to his game. His scoring ability is fine and consistent. He needs to work on his point guard skills. If he improves his assist/ TO ratio then it'll benefit his game and the team immensely.

[ATX Spur]

Is this a trick question? Assists necessitate that points have been scored. Moving the ball through the offense is good. I'd rather see Duncan score the most.

[nickj69]

I like Parker how he is esp last season when he got all thoese points!!! He did all he could sure he made mistakes everyone made em! I just think Duncan needs to stop actin scared! and just dunk tha damn ball sometimes and stop doing them sorry ass layups and hook shots!!! Parker is fine Ginobli is fine Horry is ok he could be better but his age is slowing him down but Duncan I love him but he needs to be way more AGGRESSIVE!!!!

[Leetonidas]

I could've swore I replied in this thread

[Kori Ellis]

I could've swore I replied in this thread

He wanted his original thread deleted and then he wrote it again.

[Leetonidas]

He wanted his original thread deleted and then he wrote it again.

Ah, okay. I didn't think I said anything stupid so I didn't know why someone would delete my post. Thanks for clearing that up.

But to answer the question, I think Tony's assits will go up this year because Nazr and Rasho had trouble converting around the rim and Elson and Butler won't have those problems.

[ShoogarBear]

Ah, okay. I didn't think I said anything stupid so I didn't know why someone would delete my post. Thanks for clearing that up.
Now we have to delete the thread again! Can't you take a hint! :madrun

[Leetonidas]

Now we have to delete the thread again! Can't you take a hint! :madrun

:depressed

[spurs=bling]

i would like for Tony to be the playmaker this year.

[nickj69]

Im just hoping theese new guys can ATLEAST get rebounds! that all I ask!! We are a pritty decent team shooting we just need somebody to grab the damn boards!!! and be AGGRESSIVE!! I am big on AGGRESSIVENESS!!!!!! oh and TRY TO MAKE SOME DAMN FREETHROWS!!! It seems like that is what messes us up in the final minutes!!! 1. Rebounds and 2. Free throws!!!!

[ducks]

I would like tony to be the same
manu and duncan need to be kepted fresh for the playoffs
it was a blessing last year that duncan was hurt most of the year so duncan was fresher for the playoffs
duncan needs to forcus more on rebounds this season then scoring
burn some of that energy up that way

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

"But to answer the question, I think Tony's assits will go up this year because Nazr and Rasho had trouble converting around the rim and Elson and Butler won't have those problems."

Thank you, essaySpur. It will certainly help TP if the new centres can catch the ball, which Nazr and Rasho found very difficult.

Question for the statisticians - if TP drives, makes a slip pass to a big man under the basket and the big man drops it, is that Tony's TO? The number of times of seen that over the last couple of seasons is disconcerting, but you can't blame Tony!

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Im just hoping theese new guys can ATLEAST get rebounds! that all I ask!! We are a pritty decent team shooting we just need somebody to grab the damn boards!!! and be AGGRESSIVE!! I am big on AGGRESSIVENESS!!!!!! oh and TRY TO MAKE SOME DAMN FREETHROWS!!! It seems like that is what messes us up in the final minutes!!! 1. Rebounds and 2. Free throws!!!!


Sorry, don't mean to be an arsehole, but it's "AGGRESSION", not aggressiveness, regardless fo what Americans will tell you, and all those "!!!!" make you look like a bit of a tool.

Also, isn't this a thread about TP?

Just a bit of constructive criticism to ruin your day... ;) :lol

[ShoogarBear]

Question for the statisticians - if TP drives, makes a slip pass to a big man under the basket and the big man drops it, is that Tony's TO? The number of times of seen that over the last couple of seasons is disconcerting, but you can't blame Tony!No, that should be a turnover on Nazr.

(No matter who the big man actually was.)

[nickj69]

i

[mavs>spurs2]

AGGRESSIVE!!!!


AGGRESSIVE!!



I am big on AGGRESSIVENESS!!!!!!


OK dude, we get the point.

[sprrs]

I would like his points to stay up, but if getting two or three more assists a game means dropping a few points per game, then so be it.

[Rynospursfan]

Tony is progressing nicely. I would like to see him hit a somewhat consistent 3 ball and do much better at the line. The assist numbers skewed by the Spurs system and players. Look at the Spurs other two big scorers. Duncan often puts the ball on the floor as he sets up his shot, especialy last year when he didn't have the elevation to get his bank shot off. Ginobili likes to drive the lane looking to get to the line or the hole. These styles of play are not conducive to racking up big assist numbers. Also our spot up shooters like Bones and Finley are often set up by the big men. At this point in Tony's career assist totals are just not a priority. BTW Steve Blake had the best Assist to Turnover Ratio in the Western Conference last year. That should show you just how important that particular stat is.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Good point about the FTs. Tony has no excuse for hitting in the 60s, not now Chip has improved his shooting technique. He gets to the line so much he has gotta start hitting his FTs.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

I think he'd serve better as a play maker than a scorer.

[Louis]

TP the playmaker or scorer?

None

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Any word about Parker's injury?

[Kori Ellis]

People who keep bringing up Parker's free throw shooting should note he hit 76% from the line after the All-Star break and 81% in the postseason.

[sa_butta]

As a PG I think he should pass first then shoot or drive. Of course if the lane is open, then by all means. But for the most part I think he should set up the offense and find the open man.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I want Tony Parker to be smarter with the ball. If he is going to have it in his hands the majority of the time his decision making abilities need continual improvement.. oh and don't take on the other team 1 on 5... don't dribble the ball for 20 seconds and then force up a bad shot.. that about sums it up..

[FromWayDowntown]

As a PG I think he should pass first then shoot or drive. Of course if the lane is open, then by all means. But for the most part I think he should set up the offense and find the open man.

So, essentially, you don't really want him to play aggressively on the offensive end? Just set up and dish the ball?

I think the debate is fairly misplaced. Pop doesn't ask Tony to be a distributing point guard, even when Tim and Manu are completely healthy, because the offense is set up to work from Duncan out, rather than from the point guard's creativity. 4 Down draws groans (when used in excess, I understand) but what has made the Spurs effective offensively for years is throwing the rock into Timmy, having him move the defense by drawing doubles and forcing rotations behind the ball, then skipping the ball out to a shooter or a penetrator who faces less resistance because the defense is moving. Other than that, the offense largely focuses on exploiting screen and roll opportunities in which the distribution of shots is fairly equal between the ball and the screener.

The Spurs don't run a system like Phoenix does -- ignoring pace -- because Parker doesn't dominate the ball on the offensive end like Nash does (plus, Parker doesn't get as many break opportunities as Nash does). Parker gets some playmaking opportunities, but he splits those opportunities with others (mostly Manu) and then has to divide his own opportunities between creating for himself and making things work for others. I think he found a nice balance in his decision-making last season and I think that if that jumpshot improves, it's only going to make things easier for Tony.

If you want Tony to become an 8-10 assist per night guard, you're essentially arguing (I think) that the Spurs' offense needs to change. I'd disagree with that.

[tlongII]

I'll go with loser. Tony Parker the loser.

[bdictjames]

I think Tony doesn't need to improve anything and do what he did last season. He wasn't quite stellar in the playoffs though, where it all matters. We already got a great rebounder(Timmy of course) and a playmaker(Manu). All we got to do is increase our scoring from TD and TP.

[baseline bum]

I'd take option #1. Tony would be absolutely devastating if anyone had to respect his jump shot from 19 feet and out. No more of just packing in the lane like the 2004 Lakers if Tony can hit a reasonable clip outside.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

People who keep bringing up Parker's free throw shooting should note he hit 76% from the line after the All-Star break and 81% in the postseason.

Good point Kori, hopefully he can keep that up.

Now, we need Tim to shoot like it's 2001... :lol

Man, he shot .629 last year! Timmy, Timmy, Timmy!?

[Nikos]

If you want Tony to become an 8-10 assist per night guard, you're essentially arguing (I think) that the Spurs' offense needs to change. I'd disagree with that.

It is not only about him becoming a high assist guy, but also a low turnover kind of guy. If he isn't going to get tons of assists, he should be able to be less turnover prone.

I think Tony really either needs to reduce his TO's or improve his outside shot to the point of at least mediocrity. That doesn't just mean a decent percentage, but the ability to take volume threes and hit them at a mediocre percentage.

I am not sure which is more important -- but for some reason Parker hasn't played to his potential in about 3-4 playoffs of his short career. His FG%'s have looked decent, but that is inflated because he simply never gets to the line or hits any threes. And he also tends to turn it over more than he probably should. So if is shooting under 50% it is the equavialent of Sjax, Barry, Manu or any Spur perimeter player shooting 42-43% (because they hit more threes and get to the line at a better clip). The proper term is True Shooting Percentage.

In the past two seasons the Spurs have been about the 9th or 10th best offensive team in the league. They have three excellent scorers and offensive players -- yet they aren't really close to being elite. I think this trio should be good enough to put them into the top 5-6, while still being an easy #1 on defense. But perhaps having Bowen and other defensive first players like Rasho in the past have dragged down their offensive efficiency?

I think Parker can be even better on offense than he is. Last year he was awesome. But for some reason I get the feeling he could and needs to improve in one of those two areas (or maybe a little in both) in order have gain the confidence and consistency come playoff time.

There is no question he can be a better playoff performer than he has been so far. Perhaps he has just had bad luck and doesn't need to make any drastic improvements? Just thought I would pose the question to see where fans felt TP needed to improve most to help the team.

Parker is as gifted as anyone in terms of pure scoring at the PG spot. Yet in the playoffs he hasn't done it to his capabilities. Is it just bad luck? Is it because he doesn't have the passing game to fall back on?

[ShoogarBear]

I can do this one on autopilot now:

if Tony is going to cut down on turnovers, then the Spurs need to do something that will give him more options on his penetrations other than to kick out to somebody standing around behind the three-point line.

[RC's Boss]

I don't care how he does it as long as we get that trophy in '07!

[Nikos]

I can do this one on autopilot now:

if Tony is going to cut down on turnovers, then the Spurs need to do something that will give him more options on his penetrations other than to kick out to somebody standing around behind the three-point line.

Well instead of traveling, or kicking it out for a turnover -- he could draw a foul more often? Or perhaps not make the tough play in traffic in the first place?

[Gummi]

Tony's a pure offensive PG. His jumper has been improving since his first season in the league. His free throws need to improve to around 75% IMO. He should stop taking three's and focus on the long jumper.

Tony will never be like Steve Nash or John Stockton and diss out 10+ apg. He's a shooting first, pass second type of a PG. Pop knows that and I think he wants him to be like that.

Our primary offensive players are Duncan, Parker, and Manu. Those three carry the bulk of the Spurs offense. Parker had a very good season last season and if he'll do the same this comming season I will be very happy.

[ducks]

getting rid of nazr and rasho should help tony's turnovers

[ducks]

tony played well in the playoffs for the most part except for when he was hurt and you could tell

[Texas_Ranger]

He should be a playmaker with 15 pts and 8 ast.

[BeerIsGood!]

All TP needs to worry about is taking what the defense gives him. He needs to recognize when the D is collapsing the paint or doubling off the P&R to stop him, or when the D is staying at home on TD, Manu, and the other guys and playing him straight up. IF the D is playing him straight up then he needs to assert himself on offense and score because he can take anyone off the dribble. If the D collapses or comes with help then he needs to find the open shooter and let them convert. Just like an NFL QB has to make reads and decided what the D is giving him a smart PG has to read the D and decided what is given. TP has enough experience now to be able to make the correct reads the majority of the time.

[Bruno]

Any word about Parker's injury?

A quick translation of what he say today about his injury in his website :
" Everything is fine. My finger was broken and bones have moved a little. I wear a splint to straighten it. In ten days, I will remove the splint. I do some running and cycling for the moement to stay in shape."

BTW, Parker is in France and should be back at SA on september 15th.

[ShoogarBear]

Well instead of traveling, or kicking it out for a turnover -- he could draw a foul more often? Or perhaps not make the tough play in traffic in the first place?WTF?? He can't help it if he gets banged and there's no whistle (and he gets banged with no whistle as much as any guard in the league).

And if he has no shot, and the passing lanes are cut off and everybody's just standing around the perimeter, turnovers will result.

I'm not saying he doesn't need to improve his court awareness, but his teammates and the game plan have to help him out.

[sprrs]

TP's free throws were much improved last season, to those complaining about his FTs.

[Phenomanul]

People who keep bringing up Parker's free throw shooting should note he hit 76% from the line after the All-Star break and 81% in the postseason.


That fact alone will increase his scoring average next year....

[Solid D]

That fact alone will increase his scoring average next year....

If Tony can increase his FT shooting, that would be a plus, but that's not a guarantee. I would just like to see Tony continue his aggressiveness and pushing the tempo. Last season TP finally became a Top 5 PG and a top scoring threat because he started out being aggressive from the very first game and he bailed the Spurs out of lots of games. Any time a team can get early offense before the defense has time to get set, that is a prime scoring chance. That gives a team a higher scoring % when that happens.

That's what Tony did last year, to go with his ability to finish...and his FG % soared.

I don't think Tony will ever have high assist totals the way the Spurs offense is set up and with the types of scorers the Spurs currently have. They only really have 1 catch-and-shoot guy and that's Michael Finley. The rest of the Spurs, unless they are open for a spot-up 3, like to score off the dribble or in the post with at least a dribble or two mixed in with post moves. Those dribbles eliminate assist opportunities.

[lilmads]

*sigh* this thread makes me realize how long its been since ive seen a spurs game...

[THE SIXTH MAN]

A quick translation of what he say today about his injury in his website :
" Everything is fine. My finger was broken and bones have moved a little. I wear a splint to straighten it. In ten days, I will remove the splint. I do some running and cycling for the moement to stay in shape."

BTW, Parker is in France and should be back at SA on september 15th.
Thanks Bruno :tu

[Nikos]

I guess it is kind of like asking -- do you want Tony to be more like a prime Rod Strickland (minus the horrific pass as a Spur) in terms of playmaking versus being like a equal or better version of a prime Stephon Marbury?

If he were to be a mixture of these two and slightly improve in all areas, he would be similiar to a prime Isiah Thomas (before they won titles).

I guess TP does not really need to improve much -- but it still is troublesome that he has been erratic in past playoffs. This previous playoffs is more annoying because he was injured and it is tough to really gauge if he turned the corner or not.

He did improve drastically from 05 to 06. So maybe that will manifest itself in terms of consistency in future playoff appearences?

Not that Tony hasn't had his share of awesome playoff games, it just that he has had some real stinkers mixed in and that cannot happen in the future to the degree it has happened in the past (not so much last playoffs, but in 03, 04, 05).

For someone whose main asset is scoring the inconsistency cannot happen in the future with Manu possibly declining and the supporting cast sort of shaky and old.

I find it hard to beleive that just closing down the lane and daring perimeter players to take open 3's is enough to completely take TP off his game (even if his jumper is off). I think he is capable of rising above that, regardless if his perimeter mates are off. He has become an elite offensive PG who should find ways to score consistently and efficiently come playoff time.

Maybe he has been unlucky? But if Tony plays as well in the playoffs as he does in the regular season -- the Spurs are good enough to stomp pretty much any team (provided Duncan and Manu are themselves, and they get decent supporting cast play).

Has TP just been unlucky? Maybe he just needs to slightly improve each year in ALL areas to turn into an elite player that his calibur seems to suggest at times. Right now he is sort of on a Marbury like path. An elite PG scorer who is overall an excellent guard in the league. Can TP sustain his excellent play, improve slowly, and become a beast in the playoffs?

I sure hope so. I like to think he has just had some bad luck and if he improves all the little things slightly -- he should be able to turn his playoff luck around and become the 1st and/or 2nd offensive option and be EFFICIENT at it.

[hendrix]

the option ball-hog is missing

[bdictjames]

He should both score and give a decent amount of assists. He's the PG that's his job.. much like JKidd