PDA

View Full Version : Nightmare Mortgages



RandomGuy
09-06-2006, 12:15 PM
Nightmare Mortgages
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20060901/bs_bw/b4000001

[reproduced here in its entirety in case the link goes cold, it is long but worth reading. bolded text used for editorial emphasis-rg]

For cash-strapped homeowners, it was a pitch they couldn't refuse: Refinance your mortgage at a bargain rate and cut your payments in half. New home buyers, stretching to afford something in a super-heated market, didn't even need to produce documentation, much less a downpayment.

Those who took the bait are in for a nasty surprise. While many Americans have started to worry about falling home prices, borrowers who jumped into so-called option ARM loans have another, more urgent problem: payments that are about to skyrocket.

Slide Show

The option adjustable rate mortgage (ARM) might be the riskiest and most complicated home loan product ever created. With its temptingly low minimum payments, the option ARM brought a whole new group of buyers into the housing market, extending the boom longer than it could have otherwise lasted, especially in the hottest markets. Suddenly, almost anyone could afford a home -- or so they thought. The option ARM's low payments are only temporary. And the less a borrower chooses to pay now, the more is tacked onto the balance.

The bill is coming due. Many of the option ARMs taken out in 2004 and 2005 are resetting at much higher payment schedules -- often to the astonishment of people who thought the low installments were fixed for at least five years. And because home prices have leveled off, borrowers can't count on rising equity to bail them out. What's more, steep penalties prevent them from refinancing. The most diligent home buyers asked enough questions to know that option ARMs can be fraught with risk. But others, caught up in real estate mania, ignored or failed to appreciate the risk.

There was plenty more going on behind the scenes they didn't know about, either: that their broker was paid more to sell option ARMs than other mortgages; that their lender is allowed to claim the full monthly payment as revenue on its books even when borrowers choose to pay much less; that the loan's interest rates and up-front fees might not have been set by their bank but rather by a hedge fund; and that they'll soon be confronted with the choice of coughing up higher payments or coughing up their home. The option ARM is "like the neutron bomb," says George McCarthy, a housing economist at New York's Ford Foundation. "It's going to kill all the people but leave the houses standing."

Because banks don't have to report how many option ARMs they underwrite, few choose to do so. But the best available estimates show that option ARMs have soared in popularity. They accounted for as little as 0.5% of all mortgages written in 2003, but that shot up to at least 12.3% through the first five months of this year, according to FirstAmerican LoanPerformance, an industry tracker. And while they made up at least 40% of mortgages in Salinas, Calif., and 26% in Naples, Fla., they're not just found in overheated coastal markets: Through Mar. 31 of this year, at least 51% of mortgages in West Virginia and 26% in Wyoming were option ARMs. Stock and bond analysts estimate that as many as 1.3 million borrowers took out as much as $389 billion in option ARMs in 2004 and 2005. And it's not letting up. Despite the housing slump, option ARMs totaling $77.2 billion were written in the second quarter of this year, according to investment bank Keefe, Bruyette & Woods Inc.

The First Wave

After prolonging the boom, these exotic mortgages could worsen the bust. They also betray such a lack of due diligence on the part of lenders and borrowers that it raises questions of what other problems may be lurking. And most of the pain will be borne by ordinary people, not the lenders, brokers, or financiers who created the problem.

Gordon Burger is among the first wave of option ARM casualties. The 42-year-old police officer from a suburb of Sacramento, Calif., is stuck in a new mortgage that's making him poorer by the month. Burger, a solid earner with clean credit, has bought and sold several houses in the past. In February he got a flyer from a broker advertising an interest rate of 2.2%. It was an unbeatable opportunity, he thought. If he refinanced the mortgage on his $500,000 home into an option ARM, he could save $14,000 in interest payments over three years. Burger quickly pulled the trigger, switching out of his 5.1% fixed-rate loan. "The payment schedule looked like what we talked about, so I just started signing away," says Burger. He didn't read the fine print.

After two months Burger noticed that the minimum payment of $1,697 was actually adding $1,000 to his balance every month. "I'm not making any ground on this house; it's a loss every month," he says. He says he was told by his lender, Minneapolis-based Homecoming Financial, a unit of Residential Capital, the nation's fifth-largest mortgage shop, that he'd have to pay more than $10,000 in prepayment penalties to refinance out of the loan. If he's unhappy, he should take it up with his broker, the bank said. "They know they're selling crap, and they're doing it in a way that's very deceiving," he says. "Unfortunately, I got sucked into it." In a written statement, Residential said it couldn't comment on Burger's loan but that "each mortgage is designed to meet the specific financial needs of a consumer."

The loans certainly meet the needs of banks. Option ARMs offer several payment choices each month. Among Burger's alternatives were one for $2,524, about what a standard fixed-rate mortgage would be on the new amount, and the $1,697 he pays. Why would his bank make the minimum so low? Thanks to a perfectly legal accounting practice, no matter how little Burger pays each month, the bank gets to record the full amount.

Option ARMs were created in 1981 and for years were marketed to well-heeled home buyers who wanted the option of making low payments most months and then paying off a big chunk all at once. For them, option ARMs offered flexibility.

So how did these unusual loans get into the hands of so many ordinary folks? The sequence of events was orderly and even rational, at least within a flawed system. In the early years of the housing boom, falling interest rates made safe fixed-rate loans attractive to borrowers. As home prices soared, banks pushed adjustable-rate loans with lower initial payments. When those got too pricey, banks hawked loans that required only interest payments for the first few years. And then they flogged option ARMs -- not as financial-planning tools for the wealthy but as affordability tools for the masses. Banks tapped an army of unregulated mortgage brokers to do what needed to be done to keep the money flowing, even if it meant putting dangerous loans in the hands of people who couldn't handle or didn't understand the risk. And Wall Street greased the skids by taking on much of the new risk banks were creating.

Now the signs of excess are crystal clear. Up to 80% of all option ARM borrowers make only the minimum payment each month, according to Fitch Ratings. The rest of the money gets added to the balance of the mortgage, a situation known as negative amortization. And once balances grow to a certain amount, the loans automatically reset at far higher payments. Most of these borrowers aren't paying down their loans; they're underpaying them up.

Yet the banking system has insulated itself reasonably well from the thousands of personal catastrophes to come. For one thing, banks can sell some of their option ARMs off to Wall Street, where they're packaged with other, better loans and re-sold in chunks to investors. Some $182 billion of the option ARMs written in 2004 and 2005 and an additional $83 billion this year have been sold, repackaged, rated by debt-rating agencies, and marketed to investors as mortgage-backed securities, says Bear, Stearns & Co. (NYSE:BSC - News)Banks also sell an unknown amount of them directly to hedge funds and other big investors with appetites for risk.

The rest of the option ARMs remain on lenders' books, where for now they're generating huge phantom profits for some lenders. That's because, according to generally accepted accounting principles, or GAAP, banks can count as revenue the highest amount of an option ARM payment -- the so-called fully amortized amount -- even when borrowers make only the minimum payment. In other words, banks can claim future revenue now, inflating earnings per share.

For many industries, so-called accrual accounting, which lets companies book sales when they contract for them rather than when they receive the cash, makes sense. The revenues will eventually come. But accrual accounting doesn't apply well to option ARMs, since it's more difficult to know if unpaid interest will ever cross a banker's desk. "This is basically an IOU that may never get paid," says Robert Lacoursiere, an analyst at Banc of America Securities. James Grant of Grant's Interest Rate Observer recently wrote that negative-amortization accounting is "frankly a fraudulent gambit. But what it lacks in morality, it compensates for in ingenuity." The Financial Accounting Standards Board, which is responsible for keeping GAAP up to date, stands by its standard but told BusinessWeek in a written statement that it is "concerned that the disclosures associated with these types of loans (are) not providing enough transparency relative to their associated risks."

Camouflaged Losses

Risks or not, the accounting treatment is boosting reported profits sharply. At Santa Monica (Calif.)-based FirstFed Financial Corp. (NYSE:FED - News), "deferred interest" -- what an outsider might call phantom income -- made up 67% of second-quarter pretax profits. FirstFed did not respond to requests for comment. At Oakland (Calif.)-based Golden West Financial Corp. (NYSE:GDW - News), which has been selling option ARMs for two decades, deferred interest made up about 59.6% of the bank's earnings in the first half of 2006. "It's not the loan that's the problem," says Herbert M. Sandler, CEO of World Savings Bank, parent of Golden West. "The problem is with the quality of the underwriting."

In the middle of one of the hottest U.S. markets, Coral Gables (Fla.)-based BankUnited Financial Corp. (NASDAQ:BKUNA - News) posted a $14.8 million loss for the quarter ended June, 2005. Yet it reported record profits of $23.8 million for the quarter ended in June of this year -- $20.9 million of which was earned in deferred interest. Some 92% of its new loans were option ARMs. Humberto L. Lopez, chief financial officer, insists the bank underwrites carefully. "The option ARMs have gotten a bit of a raised eyebrow because we generate and book noncash earnings. But...it's our money, and we do feel comfortable we'll get it back."

Even the loans that blow up can be hidden with fancy bookkeeping. David Hendler of New York-based CreditSights, a bond research shop, predicts that banks in coming quarters will increasingly move weak loans into so-called held-for-sale accounts. There the loans will sit, sequestered from the rest of the portfolio, until they're sold to collection agencies or to investors. In the latter case, a transaction on an ailing loan registers on the books as a trading loss, gets mixed up with other trading activities and -- presto! -- it vanishes from shareholders' sight. "There are a lot of ways to camouflage the actual experience," says Hendler.

There's no way to camouflage what Harold, a former computer technician who asked BusinessWeek not to publish his last name, is about to face. He's disabled and has one source of income: the $1,600 per month he receives in Social Security disability payments. In September, 2005, Harold refinanced out of a fixed-rate mortgage and into an option ARM for his $150,000 home in Chicago. The minimum monthly payment for the first year is $899, which he can afford. The interest-only payment is $1,329, which he can't. The fully amortized payment is $1,454, which his lender, Washington Mutual (NYSE:WM - News), gets to count on its books. WaMu, no fly-by-night operation, said it couldn't comment on Harold's case, citing confidentiality issues. A spokesman says the bank "accounts for its option ARM product in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles." WaMu has about $12 billion in loans negatively amortizing right now, up from $2.5 billion in 2005, estimates CreditSights' Hen dler. In a written statement, WaMu said "borrowers who request an adjustable loan with payment options should understand those options and potential adjustments throughout the life of the loan. We make detailed disclosures to customers that are designed to develop a more informed consumer of mortgage products and ensure that our customers are comfortable with the loan products they select."

Hard Sell

To get the deals done, banks have turned increasingly to unregulated mortgage brokers, who now account for 80% of all mortgage originations, double what it was 10 years ago, according to the National Association of Mortgage Brokers. In 2004 banks began offering fatter sales commissions on option ARMs to encourage brokers to push them, says Gail McKenzie, assistant U.S. attorney in Atlanta, who is investigating mortgage brokers for improper practices.

The problem, of course, is that many brokers care more about commissions than customers. They use aggressive sales tactics, harping on the minimum payment on an option ARM and neglecting to mention the future implications. Some even imply verbally that temporary teaser rates of 1% to 2% are permanent, even though the fine print says otherwise. It's easy to confuse borrowers with option ARM numbers. A recent Federal Reserve study showed that one in four homeowners is mystified by basic adjustable-rate loans. Add multiple payment options into the mix, and the mortgage game can be utterly baffling.

Billy and Carolyn Shaw are among the growing ranks of borrowers who have taken out loans they say they didn't understand. The retired couple from the Salinas (Calif.) area needed to tap about $50,000 in equity from their $385,000 home to cover mounting expenses. Billy, 66, a retired mechanic, has diabetes. Carolyn, 61, has been caring for her grandchildren, 10-year-old twins, since her daughter's death in 2000. The Shaws have a fixed income of $3,000 a month that will fall by about $1,000 in November after Billy's disability benefits run out. Their new loan's minimum payment of about $1,413 is manageable so far, but the fully amortized amount of about $3,329 is out of the question. In a little over a year, they've added some $8,500 to their loan balance and now face a big reset if they continue to pay only the minimum. "We didn't totally understand what was taking place," says Carolyn. "You have to pay attention. We didn't, and we're really stuck here." The Shaws' lender, Golden Wes t, says it routinely calls customers to ask them if they are happy and understand their mortgage loan.

Then there's the illegal stuff. Mortgage fraud is one of the fastest-growing white-collar crimes in the nation, costing $1 billion in 2005, double the year before. A slower housing market could foster more wrongdoing. "With a tighter market, you are going to find there is more incentive to manipulate," says Tim Irvin of Irvin Investigations & Research Services in Spring, Texas. "Brokers are having a harder time getting business, so they're getting creative."

Concerns like these haven't curbed Wall Street's hunger for option ARMS. "At a price, you can originate or sell anything," says Thomas F. Marano, global head of mortgage and asset-backed securities at Bear Stearns. Hedge funds have been particularly active, buying risky loans directly from banks and cutting out the bundlers in the middle. Kathleen C. Engel, an associate professor of law at Cleveland-Marshall College of Law at Cleveland State University, says Wall Street and hedge fund money has helped to finance widespread lending abuses, particularly among the most vulnerable borrowers.

Pros Go Unscathed

Why are hedge funds willing to buy risky loans directly? Because they can demand terms that help insulate them from losses. And banks, knowing what the hedge funds want in advance, simply take it out of the hides of borrowers, many of whom qualify for lower rates based on their credit histories. "Even if the loan goes bad, (the hedge funds are) still making money hand over fist," says Engel.

Eventually, some of it will go sour. But the Wall Street pros who buy option ARMs are in the business of managing risk, and no one expects widespread losses. They've taken on billons in iffy option ARMs, but the loans are no shakier than the billions in emerging market debt or derivatives they buy and sell all the time. Blowups are factored into the investing decision.

Banks that hold lots of option ARMs on their books will surely be hit by loan defaults in coming years. "It's certainly reasonable to expect to see some excesses wrung out," says Brad A. Morrice, president and CEO of New Century Financial Corp. But even here the damage will likely be limited. Banks use insurance and other financial instruments to protect their portfolios, and they hold real assets -- homes -- as collateral. Christopher L. Cagan, director of research and analytics at First American Real Estate Solutions, a researcher and unit of title insurer First American, forecasts total defaults of $300 billion across all types of loans, not just option ARMs, over the next five years -- less than 1% of total homeowner equity. (In comparison, JPMorgan Chase & Co. alone has a mortgage portfolio of $182.8 billion.) Cagan estimates that banks will end up losing only $100 billion of it all told.

Most of the pain will be born by ordinary people. And it's already happening. More than a fifth of option ARM loans in 2004 and 2005 are upside down -- meaning borrowers' homes are worth less than their debt. If home prices fall 10%, that number would double. "The number of houses for sale is tripling in some markets, so people are not going to get out of their debt," says the Ford Foundation's McCarthy. "A lot are going to walk."

Jennifer and Eric Hinz of Somerset, Wis., are feeling the squeeze. They refinanced out of a 5.25% fixed-rate, 30-year loan in June, 2005, and into an option ARM with a 1% teaser rate from Indymac Bank. The $1,483 payment for their original mortgage dropped to as low as $747 with the new option ARM. They say they had no idea when they signed up, however, that the low payment adds $600 in deferred interest to their balance every month. Worse, they thought the 1% would last three years, but they're already paying 7.68%. "What reasonable human being would ever knowingly give up a 5.25% fixed-rate for what we're getting now?" says Eric, 36, who works in commercial construction. Refinancing is out because they can't afford the $15,000 or so in fees. "I'm paying more, and the interest is just going up and up and up," says Jennifer, 34, a stay-at-home mom. "I feel like we got totally screwed." They say their mortgage broker has stopped returning their phone calls. Indymac declined to commen t on the loan's specifics.

Stories like these can be found across the socioeconomic spectrum, says Allen J. Fishbein, director of Housing & Credit Policy for the Consumer Federation of America. In a May focus group, the CFA found that option ARM customers at all income levels said the loans were the only way they could afford their homes. While many recognized that their mortgages could increase, "they professed complete surprise that they could increase as much as they could," says Fishbein. That lack of diligence will cost them over time.

Not that all option ARM holders go in blindly. While the loans are marketed aggressively, plenty of holders know exactly what they're getting into. Jon and Meghan Bachman of Portland, Ore., consider them wealth-building tools. "We want to own a bunch of houses," says Meghan. "We're hoping for early retirement."

So far they have stayed out of the fire. The couple, who are in their 30s, bought their first home, a 100-year-old farm house in Portland, Ore., in October, 2005, with a no-money-down loan for $200,000 from GreenPoint Mortgage, a unit of NorthFork Bancorporation Inc. By May, the value of the house had soared to $275,000. Rather than sit tight as their grandparents might have, the Bachmans, with an annual household income of $70,000, took out a home equity loan to put a $30,000 downpayment on an investment property in an up-and-coming neighborhood nearby. They pay a minimum of just $825 on their new $191,000 mortgage, and rent the house out for $100 more than that. Sooner or later, the payment will rise. Then they'll have to raise the rent to stay in the black. If the still-strong Portland housing market tanks, they could find themselves in deep trouble. It's a risk they say they're willing to take.

Public policy has yet to catch up with the new complexities of the lending industry. Comptroller of the Currency John C. Dugan, the banking industry's main regulator, wants banks to clean up their act. A source inside the federal Office of the Comptroller says Dugan intends to raise lending standards, as he did last year on credit cards, where super-low minimum payments made it improbable that cardholders would ever pay down debts. New guidelines are expected this fall.

Fair-housing pundits suggest that mortgage lenders follow the lead of the securities industry and require that mortgage borrowers be not only eligible for a product but also suitable -- meaning the loan won't impose hardship. Says Consumer Federation of America's Fishbein: Buyers have to have a "reasonable prospect of being able to handle the payments, not at the initial rate, but (assuming) the worst-case scenario."

So far, banks have shown little desire to raise their standards. In February, Golden West announced it would raise its minimum option ARM payment to 2.6% of the loan. In March, Golden West's Sandler wrote a nine-page letter to the Office of Thrift Supervision decrying the lax lending standards he was seeing. "Foolish lenders who eventually stumble under the weight of their missteps will bring down innocent borrowers with them and leave the rest of us to clean up the mess," he wrote. But on May 7, Golden West announced it was selling out to Charlotte (N.C.)-based Wachovia Corp. (NYSE:WB - News). By June it had dropped its option ARM rate back down to 1.50%. Sandler says the rates were changed according to the bank's interest rate outlook.

Analyst Frederick Cannon of Keefe Bruyette & Woods says most banks don't apologize for their option ARM businesses. "Almost without exception everyone says (the option ARM) is a great loan, it's plenty regulated, and don't bug us," he says. In an April letter to regulators, Cindy Manzettie, chief credit officer for Fifth Third Bank in Cincinnati, said it's not the "lender's responsibility to help the consumer determine the appropriate payment option each month.... Paternalistic regulations that underestimate the intelligence of the American public do not work."

Just another good bit I have gleaned from my readings. Hope it helps one of y'all avoid a mistake.

Unless of course you are a nuggets fan. Then don't worry about it. ;)

101A
09-06-2006, 12:57 PM
Anyone with a mortgage that didn't come out of this recent wave of REALLY low interest rates w/o a 10 - 30 year very agreeable fixed rate does not understand what they are doing.

RandomGuy
09-06-2006, 12:59 PM
Anyone with a mortgage that didn't come out of this recent wave of REALLY low interest rates w/o a 10 - 30 year very agreeable fixed rate does not understand what they are doing.

Hopefully I can help any here that might not have.

I have a sneaking suspicion that interest rates or going to get higher, and stay that way for long time.

Just in time for *me* to save up and buy that first house. (sighs)

Phenomanul
09-06-2006, 01:03 PM
Hopefully I can help any here that might not have.

I have a sneaking suspicion that interest rates or going to get higher, and stay that way for long time.

Just in time for *me* to save up and buy that first house. (sighs)


That's the same boat I'm in....

boutons_
09-06-2006, 01:14 PM
Foreclosures haunt homeowners

Web Posted: 09/06/2006 06:23 AM CDT

Jennifer Hiller
Express-News Business Writer

Nearly 850 Bexar County residents lost their homes to foreclosure Tuesday, the third-highest monthly total in more than a decade.

Foreclosed homes go up for public auction the first Tuesday of each month outside the Bexar County Courthouse.

The slew of foreclosures is reminiscent of the late 1980s when oil busted and the San Antonio real estate market crashed.

But today, home prices are climbing in neighborhoods across San Antonio. The city is enjoying one of the healthiest real estate markets in its history. And mortgage interest rates remain near historically low levels.

So what's happening?

"Lenders are making riskier loans," said Jim Gaines, research economist with the Texas A&M Real Estate Center. "Some of that risk is coming home to roost."

Real estate professionals say the loose lending requirements and risky loans common in the past few years have caused some families to get in over their heads.

People who buy a home with no down payment and who roll closing costs into their mortgage loan seem especially vulnerable to foreclosure.

These "upside-down" loans — so named because the loan amount is higher than the home value at the outset — make up only about 1 percent of all mortgage loans in San Antonio, according to LoanPerformance, a mortgage research firm.

But in the first half of 2006, they made up 16 percent of the Bexar County foreclosure market, according to the Addison-based Foreclosure Listing Service, Inc.

George Roddy, president of Foreclosure Listing Service, said interest rates on adjustable-rate mortgages, known as ARMs, are resetting at higher levels now, sometimes doubling monthly mortgage payments. And consumers have had a harder time getting bankruptcy protection.

"These things coupled with a tremendous increase in the cost of living have pushed many household budgets over the edge," Roddy said. "With expenses increasing, many of which have even doubled over the last year, how long can the average American family keep hanging on when income levels have not risen accordingly?"

Some homeowners no longer are able to keep pace with mortgage payments now that a whole host of consumer costs — gas prices, home insurance, property taxes and utilities — has risen. Earlier this year, credit card companies doubled minimum payments for most people.

"Families have a lot of financial woes," said Bexar County Clerk Gerry Rickhoff, whose office posts and records foreclosures. "Their expenses are going up across the board."

Bob Owen/Express-News

Mike Lucci, center, sells a house for Palmer Creek Investments, as Luis Aponte, left, and Alex Tolentino, right, check on information on houses they want to bid on during a home foreclosure auction on the steps of the Bexar County Courthouse.
Divorce, death, illness and job losses mean there always will be some homes lost to foreclosure. But the number of Bexar County foreclosures has been rising since the late 1990s.

In 1996, 3,894 Bexar County homes were sold at the foreclosure auction. So far this year, 6,510 homes have sold at auction.

If this pace continues, 8,679 Bexar County homes would go into foreclosure this year, according to the Bexar County clerk's office.

Gregg Stanley, owner of Real Estate Foreclosures, a San Antonio-based foreclosure listing service, said the rise in local property values has helped many families avoid foreclosure.

"They can sell and be OK if they do it quickly enough," he said.

Without the rise in property values, Stanley said, foreclosures would be double or triple the current levels.

In the late 1980s and early 1990s, people typically lost their homes to foreclosure because of an economic downturn that led to layoffs.

"This isn't the '80s," Gaines said. "In the state of Texas we've had a lot of people buying homes in the last two or three years on easy credit terms. Lenders are pushing mortgages out the door."

It's a trend that's positive or negative, depending on whom you ask.

Homeownership is at an all-time high, Stanley said.

"That's not something that we would consider a bad thing," he said.

Gaines, too, said people who never thought they could become homeowners have been able to get into the market and, for the most part, hang onto their homes.

"Was it a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know where you draw the line," Gaines said. "These were people who were giving it a shot who were never able to give it a shot before."

The last time monthly foreclosure numbers reached these levels was in December 2004, when 857 homes went into foreclosure, and in May 2003, when 856 people lost homes to foreclosure.

Before that, 1990 was the last time so many homes went to auction in one month.

For would-be investors, the 849 foreclosures this month represent something else: opportunity.

On Tuesday, a chaotic crowd huddled under umbrellas outside the courthouse entrance, ignoring the steady rain and straining to hear the various foreclosure auctions — several of which happen simultaneously.

Lisa Allen, who was hoping to buy a house Tuesday, said she and her daughter buy one house at a time, fix it up and resell it.

Buying a foreclosure is one of the most affordable ways to do that, but it's a high-risk investment.

Allen said she always drives by the listed properties before the auction. One of the ones she peeked in on had cracked floors and a collapsed ceiling — signs of major foundation problems.

"You have to be really careful," she said.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/D_IMAGE.10d11cd596d.93.88.fa.d0.70172e19.gif

[email protected]

Online at: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA090606.01A.HighForeclosures.35ad982.html

spurs_fan_in_exile
09-06-2006, 02:42 PM
This makes me appreciate my mortgage broker all the more. When my wife and I were getting our mortgage set up pretty much all he said on the subject was, "You could get yourself an ARM but I wouldn't mess with one of those if I were you."

Spurminator
09-06-2006, 02:59 PM
An adjustable rate was really never even a consideration for us. We felt it was better to get a less expensive house than to get suckered into an ARM deal that was "within our means."

Nbadan
09-06-2006, 03:51 PM
Hopefully I can help any here that might not have.

I have a sneaking suspicion that interest rates or going to get higher, and stay that way for long time.

Just in time for *me* to save up and buy that first house. (sighs)

As interest rates increase, demand for homes wains. It's happening in SA now, although there are new and used homes flooding the market, there are less takers at current rates. So homes are sitting on the market longer. What used to take weeks to sell, now takes months. Making things worse, many new home owners are reaching the two-year limit on ARMs and will be forced to make much higher payments or sell their homes, further flooding the local real estate market.

Saving for your twenty-percent and paying down your monthly bills is exactly what you should be doing right now. In a year or two there are going to be many desperate sellers and not enough buyers giving you the ability to buy much more home than you ever thought you could with your money.

sickdsm
09-06-2006, 03:57 PM
Why on earth you would not get a fixed rate is beyond me. Int. was/still is somewhat incredibbly low. Weren't fixed rates just a couple years back now in line/lower than most adjustable rates?


That being said, unless your a pro at mortgage's, going with some complicated option payment schedule just doesn't make sense.

Open a history book on land prices, farm crash's of the 80's.

Rising interest rates aren't a radical idea, its kinda hard to say otherwise since we've known them to be so low........

Nbadan
09-06-2006, 04:01 PM
Why on earth you would not get a fixed rate is beyond me. Int. was/still is somewhat incredibbly low. Weren't fixed rates just a couple years back now in line/lower than most adjustable rates?

In some markets, high home prices prohibit buyers from traditional financing avenues. Many are betting that home prices will keep rising and they can move every couple of years and live affordably.

Phenomanul
09-06-2006, 04:01 PM
As interest rates increase, demand for homes wains. It's happening in SA now, although there are new and used homes flooding the market, there are less takers at current rates. So homes are sitting on the market longer. What used to take weeks to sell, now takes months. Making things worse, many new home owners are reaching the two-year limit on ARMs and will be forced to make much higher payments or sell their homes, further flooding the local real estate market.

Saving for your twenty-percent and paying down your monthly bills is exactly what you should be doing right now. In a year or two there are going to be many desperate sellers and not enough buyers giving you the ability to buy much more home than you ever thought you could with your money.


That's good news... for those of us who will be looking to buy a home in that timeframe of course.

sickdsm
09-06-2006, 04:03 PM
In some markets, high home prices prohibit buyers from traditional financing avenues. Many are betting that home prices will keep rising and they can move every couple of years and live affordably.


Why would that make a differnce? You don't need to have it paid off in order to sell it and make a profit..............

Nbadan
09-06-2006, 04:03 PM
That's good news... for those of us who will be looking to buy a home in that timeframe of course.

Yes it is. Also, If your a first time home-buyer, there are incentives that could keep your rates at a decent level.

sickdsm
09-06-2006, 04:05 PM
That's good news... for those of us who will be looking to buy a home in that timeframe of course.


I dunno, my thinking is that if your able to buy something and you don't, your wasting money. I plan on paying extra on my mortgage's this year and forcing myself to be able to swing it come spring. Stick whatever money you would be spending on your house into SOMETHING at least and build up some assets.

Nbadan
09-06-2006, 04:07 PM
Why would that make a differnce? You don't need to have it paid off in order to sell it and make a profit..............

Well, you need a healthy demand, otherwise price don't rise as fast. Many people are making two-year, interest-only payments, so the only 'profit' they walk away with after two years is the capital gain they made from rise in the home value (sale price).

Nbadan
09-06-2006, 04:12 PM
I dunno, my thinking is that if your able to buy something and you don't, your wasting money. I plan on paying extra on my mortgage's this year and forcing myself to be able to swing it come spring. Stick whatever money you would be spending on your house into SOMETHING at least and build up some assets.

If its a home your going to live in for ten to twenty years or so, and you can ride out the appreciation/depreciation cycle, then buying a home is a good investment in San Antonio, as long as you stay away from ARMs. However, if you want more house than you ever thought you could afford, waiting a year or two would be wise.

sickdsm
09-06-2006, 04:13 PM
Ahhhh, but if those people go into it with that frame of mind, there not looking for a home. I thought you meant the traditional starter home, move up to something better every so often crowd.


I don't have sympathy for that crowd.

Zunni
09-06-2006, 07:05 PM
ARMS are really only good if it's a boom housing market, and you're an investing "flipper". The low starting rate/payment allows you to invest more into the home and get a higher price at flip time. Anyone else should avoid them like the plague.

Clandestino
09-06-2006, 09:14 PM
I dunno, my thinking is that if your able to buy something and you don't, your wasting money. I plan on paying extra on my mortgage's this year and forcing myself to be able to swing it come spring. Stick whatever money you would be spending on your house into SOMETHING at least and build up some assets.

bad move... any financial advisor will tell you that...

johnsmith
09-07-2006, 07:19 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I bought two homes in the San Antonio area three years ago and my mortgate is a 30 - yr fixed and both have an interest rate below 5%. I rent out the one house and live in the other. Both were wonderful investments and will help pay for yet another home once I have about two more years of equity in them. I laugh at people dumb enough to purchase an ARM and not plan for the eventual rate change, you know it's coming, re-finance or sell the place before your two years are up jackasses.

ObiwanGinobili
09-07-2006, 07:20 AM
Hopefully I can help any here that might not have.

I have a sneaking suspicion that interest rates or going to get higher, and stay that way for long time.

Just in time for *me* to save up and buy that first house. (sighs)


that would be us also.... :depressed I've been working diligently to save up the traditional 20% for a nice good old fashioned mortgage.

I just hope interest rates don't go the way they were for my parents first home.. they were paying 16.9% on a VHA.

johnsmith
09-07-2006, 07:26 AM
Hopefully I can help any here that might not have.

I have a sneaking suspicion that interest rates or going to get higher, and stay that way for long time.

Just in time for *me* to save up and buy that first house. (sighs)


My advice to first time home buyers, GO BUY THE FUCKING HOUSE. I was 23 when I bought my first house and I honestly didn't have a clue that I could afford it. Go to one of those neighborhoods that are just being built, find the smallest, cheapest one, put a couple thousand bucks down and buy a place. Then, about a year or two later, when you have the money for a nicer, bigger, or whatever you want kind of place, do what I did and rent the place out, or sell it for that matter and buy what you really want. Your mortgage, even at current interest rates, will NOT be a whole lot more then your rent, unfortunately, here in the great state of Texas, if you do live here, property taxes are a bitch because the local government finds it necessary to penalize property owners and not make everyone pay for education (dumb motherfuckers). I'm telling you, there is no better investment, in my opinion, then owning your own home. GO BUY IT BEFORE RATES GO UP, and remember, rates are at like 6.2% or some shit right now but the average home owner in America pays something like 9% (someone feel free to correct me on that but I think it's around there), so therefore, rates aren't that damn high yet.

johnsmith
09-07-2006, 07:28 AM
that would be us also.... :depressed I've been working diligently to save up the traditional 20% for a nice good old fashioned mortgage.

I just hope interest rates don't go the way they were for my parents first home.. they were paying 16.9% on a VHA.


NOOOOOOOOO, there is no reason to save 20%. Odds are, that if this is your first home, there is a better then average chance you're not going to live there for 30 years, so why put 20% of the homes value into the loan? Put $3,000-5,000 down, buy $5,000 worth of new furniture or something and save or invest the rest of the money. You are wasting time and money by saving for this while rates will rise and housing costs go up.

RandomGuy
09-07-2006, 07:33 AM
bad move... any financial advisor will tell you that...

Not if doing so replaces the low to medium risk investment that you would have done otherwise.

haven't we talked about this before? :lol

RandomGuy
09-07-2006, 07:35 AM
My advice to first time home buyers, GO BUY THE FUCKING HOUSE. I was 23 when I bought my first house and I honestly didn't have a clue that I could afford it. Go to one of those neighborhoods that are just being built, find the smallest, cheapest one, put a couple thousand bucks down and buy a place. Then, about a year or two later, when you have the money for a nicer, bigger, or whatever you want kind of place, do what I did and rent the place out, or sell it for that matter and buy what you really want. Your mortgage, even at current interest rates, will NOT be a whole lot more then your rent, unfortunately, here in the great state of Texas, if you do live here, property taxes are a bitch because the local government finds it necessary to penalize property owners and not make everyone pay for education (dumb motherfuckers). I'm telling you, there is no better investment, in my opinion, then owning your own home. GO BUY IT BEFORE RATES GO UP, and remember, rates are at like 6.2% or some shit right now but the average home owner in America pays something like 9% (someone feel free to correct me on that but I think it's around there), so therefore, rates aren't that damn high yet.

Renters pay property taxes too.

johnsmith
09-07-2006, 07:35 AM
Renters pay property taxes too.

Beg your pardon? How do you figure?

johnsmith
09-07-2006, 07:36 AM
Honestly, I'm asking, I thought only owners paid property taxes here. Explain please?

RandomGuy
09-07-2006, 07:46 AM
Honestly, I'm asking, I thought only owners paid property taxes here. Explain please?

You don't think that all expenses are covered by a rent in order to make a profit?

Property tax for a lessor is an expense.

If property taxes go up, rents will follow to cover the added expense to the landholder.

johnsmith
09-07-2006, 08:01 AM
You don't think that all expenses are covered by a rent in order to make a profit?

Property tax for a lessor is an expense.

If property taxes go up, rents will follow to cover the added expense to the landholder.


Come on, seriously. You think you are paying near the percentage of a property tax at an apartment then you are owning a home? That's ridiculous and a typical argument from someone renting. As a renter, you do not pay 3% of the value of an apartment or condo, that's just not how it works, you know that. The state of Texas penalizes home owners, that's all there is to it. We have to pay for education on our own while renters pay a fraction of the property taxes we do.

johnsmith
09-07-2006, 08:11 AM
Lower property taxes and increase sales tax, then there won't be an argument over who's paying more for education.

RandomGuy
09-07-2006, 08:12 AM
Come on, seriously. You think you are paying near the percentage of a property tax at an apartment then you are owning a home? That's ridiculous and a typical argument from someone renting. As a renter, you do not pay 3% of the value of an apartment or condo, that's just not how it works, you know that. The state of Texas penalizes home owners, that's all there is to it. We have to pay for education on our own while renters pay a fraction of the property taxes we do.

Homes are larger than apartments. The property taxes are apportioned among apartments.

(shrugs)

Taxes have to be levied somehow. One can't expect fairness to all, merely that they are equitable.

If you aren't taxing capital, you are taxing labor. The alternative to ad valorum taxes are income taxes.

Would you prefer to spend time every year filling out a Texas income tax form, and all the beaurocracy THAT entails?

RandomGuy
09-07-2006, 08:13 AM
Lower property taxes and increase sales tax, then there won't be an argument over who's paying more for education.

:lol

Yes there would be.

The fact is that education benefits all, even renters.

johnsmith
09-07-2006, 08:16 AM
:lol

Yes there would be.

The fact is that education benefits all, even renters.

WHAT?

I'm not arguing the merits of education. I'm arguing that property tax payers are paying for ALL of education.

As for renters paying the full amount of property tax based on the size of their apartment. Tell that to home owners that buy a 1300 sq. foot home, which there are plenty, and then have to pay the property taxes on it. You don't know what these people pay because you don't own a house. You'll see when you get big and buy something rather then lining the pockets of a landlord or apartment owner.

Extra Stout
09-07-2006, 08:50 AM
WHAT?

I'm not arguing the merits of education. I'm arguing that property tax payers are paying for ALL of education.

As for renters paying the full amount of property tax based on the size of their apartment. Tell that to home owners that buy a 1300 sq. foot home, which there are plenty, and then have to pay the property taxes on it. You don't know what these people pay because you don't own a house. You'll see when you get big and buy something rather then lining the pockets of a landlord or apartment owner.
Homeowners also get that nice big deduction for property tax and mortgage interest. I love that deduction. :spin

johnsmith
09-07-2006, 08:56 AM
Homeowners also get that nice big deduction for property tax and mortgage interest. I love that deduction. :spin


That's a good one, I agree.

101A
09-07-2006, 09:19 AM
Would you prefer to spend time every year filling out a Texas income tax form, and all the beaurocracy THAT entails?

I filled out 4, count them FOUR income tax forms last year:

1. US
2. PA
3. IAISD
4. White Township

I truly miss Texas.

RandomGuy
09-07-2006, 09:34 AM
You don't know what these people pay because you don't own a house. You'll see when you get big and buy something rather then lining the pockets of a landlord or apartment owner.

(amused)

I do the taxes for a friend or two that own houses.

As for "lining the pockets", the interest you pay bankers for your mortgage does the same.

Renting is generally cheaper than home ownership, and if you take/save the difference between the two and invest that money, one can come out much more even than you might think.

Remember that the first decade or so of house payments are primarily interest.

RandomGuy
09-07-2006, 09:38 AM
I filled out 4, count them FOUR income tax forms last year:

1. US
2. PA
3. IAISD
4. White Township

I truly miss Texas.

Bingo.

As an accountant, let me be clear: I hate tax law and wish it were simpler.

If you think that tax law is hard when you fill out your own tax returns, try taking an adnvanced tax class or two at the university level. Hardest classes I have ever taken, bar none, and I hated every second of it. (got an A and a B, btw :D ) That was just FEDERAL tax law.

Property taxes are the lesser of two evils. If you believe nothing else I say, believe that.

johnsmith
09-07-2006, 09:53 AM
Bingo.

As an accountant, let me be clear: I hate tax law and wish it were simpler.

If you think that tax law is hard when you fill out your own tax returns, try taking an adnvanced tax class or two at the university level. Hardest classes I have ever taken, bar none, and I hated every second of it. (got an A and a B, btw :D ) That was just FEDERAL tax law.

Property taxes are the lesser of two evils. If you believe nothing else I say, believe that.


Again, lower property taxes, raise sales tax. That way you won't have to worry about the complexity of the issue.
"Lining the pockets of lenders", the value of both of my homes since I purchased them has gone up at least 20%. I'll make plenty off of the deal once I sell them.

johnsmith
09-07-2006, 09:58 AM
I just realized I got way off the issue there, my bad. Anyway, I'm bored with this thread now, but listen to my advice, buy a house now, don't wait any longer then you have to Randomguy, you should know as well as anyone that you pretty much need nothing for a down payment if you choose to go that route, you'll be much happier in a house of your own. Maybe it was just that way for me, but so far it was one of the better decisions I've made in my life. Oh, and God bless those home builders for coming in, buying up a bunch of land, building way to many houses on said land, and selling them for dirt cheap for the first phase of each neighborhood. I could see where one could make a really good living just following Centex/Pulte/Perry/etc around and buying houses in "phase 1" of each new neighborhood.

RandomGuy
09-07-2006, 10:30 AM
I just realized I got way off the issue there, my bad. Anyway, I'm bored with this thread now, but listen to my advice, buy a house now, don't wait any longer then you have to Randomguy, you should know as well as anyone that you pretty much need nothing for a down payment if you choose to go that route, you'll be much happier in a house of your own. Maybe it was just that way for me, but so far it was one of the better decisions I've made in my life. Oh, and God bless those home builders for coming in, buying up a bunch of land, building way to many houses on said land, and selling them for dirt cheap for the first phase of each neighborhood. I could see where one could make a really good living just following Centex/Pulte/Perry/etc around and buying houses in "phase 1" of each new neighborhood.

My wife and I manage our small apartment complex. Our rent is paid for by what is essentially a part-time, stay-at-home job.

Renting and using that particular cash flow to pay off the mountain of debt my family is in (student loans, an uninsured stay in the hospital, and credit cards racked up during unemployment/education) makes MUCH more sense than home ownership for the next 5 years.

I have run the numbers, honest. :angel

When it comes to it, I will have both the GI home loan guarantee, and a Texas Veterans Land Board loan, so I am not too worried about that step when it comes.

Any vets out there that don't know about the TVLB should check it out. Lenders are falling all over themselves to loan you (technically the TVLB) money for a house.

RandomGuy
09-07-2006, 10:40 AM
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1187687#post1187687

gameFACE
09-08-2006, 12:25 AM
In a year or two there are going to be many desperate sellers and not enough buyers giving you the ability to buy much more home than you ever thought you could with your money.

Hopefully by next spring........... :smokin

Nbadan
09-08-2006, 01:31 AM
Moving into a new house using creative financing because 'it makes you feel good' makes a lot of sense. Old timers would gasp to learn that people can buy a 200k home with nothing down and even roll-over the closing costs. Its a roadmap to disaster for many people, and the banks won't really care, they'll fore-close on these families and find some other sucker to pick up the mortagage until there are no more suckers left. When these vulture-capitalist have increased home prices in SA enough that they can't make a profit anymore they'll move on to the next city and increase their cost of living, meanwhile the locals will be left buying homes having to use creative financing because they won't be able to afford a home with traditional financing and pay taxes and insurance at the same time.

It's the same thing that went on in every coastal city, wash-rinse-repeat, and the worst part is you can't sell your house and 'walk away with a tidy profit', at least, not unless you plan on moving out of the best parts of San Antonio. Everyone has to live somewhere and you'll have to pay inflated prices too.

Nbadan
09-08-2006, 01:58 AM
The slumping housing market, a catalyst for the Bush43 WH economic policy, is now starting to have its effect on stocks...


Sept. 7 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks declined for a second day on mounting evidence that a housing slump is putting the brakes on the economy.

Countrywide Financial Corp., the biggest U.S. mortgage lender, led financial shares lower after KB Home and Beazer Homes USA Inc. said earnings will be below their forecasts and an industry group said home prices may drop for the first time since 1993.

``Housing has fallen more dramatically than anyone would have thought,'' said Linda Duessel, an equity strategist who helps manage $218 billion at Federated Investors in Pittsburgh. Investors are ``worried about an economy that is slowing more than expected.''

Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco President Janet Yellen, who said inflation may decelerate ``faster than many forecasters expect,'' gave the market no support. Yellen also said policy makers ``must have a bias'' toward higher borrowing costs even though the pace of growth is waning.

The Standard & Poor's 500 Index fell 6.24, or 0.5 percent, to 1294.02. The Dow Jones Industrial Average retreated 74.76, or 0.7 percent, to 11,331.44. The Nasdaq Composite Index dropped 12.55, or 0.6 percent, to 2155.29.

The S&P 500 has declined 0.8 percent this month on signs of weakness in the housing market and accelerating inflation. A report yesterday showing rising labor costs added to investor concern.

Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aZtaDn4s9sKo&refer=home)

RandomGuy
09-08-2006, 07:51 AM
I saw that too.

The good thing about this is that by the time I pay down a good chunk of my debt, and put together a decent downpayment in about 5 years, I expect the market to be more favorable to buyers.

I should be able to snap up a nice house from foreclosure.

sickdsm
09-08-2006, 09:49 AM
LOL at selling your home for a tidy profit is somehow OK but doing it for a living isn't.


If you buy and sell a house every ten years and move on, your just as much as a vulture preying on younger, poorer families as a guy doing it for a living. Profit ALWAYS has to come from somewhere, is it allright if you don't do it as OFTEN as the next guy?


Kind of a holier than thou attitude. I'm not saying its wrong but its still the same thing.

johnsmith
09-08-2006, 09:55 AM
LOL at selling your home for a tidy profit is somehow OK but doing it for a living isn't.


If you buy and sell a house every ten years and move on, your just as much as a vulture preying on younger, poorer families as a guy doing it for a living. Profit ALWAYS has to come from somewhere, is it allright if you don't do it as OFTEN as the next guy?


Kind of a holier than thou attitude. I'm not saying its wrong but its still the same thing.

Who said that?

RandomGuy
09-08-2006, 01:29 PM
LOL at selling your home for a tidy profit is somehow OK but doing it for a living isn't.


If you buy and sell a house every ten years and move on, your just as much as a vulture preying on younger, poorer families as a guy doing it for a living. Profit ALWAYS has to come from somewhere, is it allright if you don't do it as OFTEN as the next guy?


Kind of a holier than thou attitude. I'm not saying its wrong but its still the same thing.

Just as american farmers are preying on poor farmers in the developing world by accepting government agricultural subsidies... :angel

Heh, just poking your sensibilities with a stick.

Seriously tho',
Rolling over your house every few years is far from "preying" on younger couples.

It simply provides a supply of housing for what is demanded by the market.

You would prefer that younger couples NOT be allowed to buy houses? (confused)

johnsmith
09-08-2006, 01:32 PM
Just as american farmers are preying on poor farmers in the developing world by accepting government agricultural subsidies... :angel

Heh, just poking your sensibilities with a stick.

Seriously tho',
Rolling over your house every few years is far from "preying" on younger couples.

It simply provides a supply of housing for what is demanded by the market.

You would prefer that younger couples NOT be allowed to buy houses? (confused)

Agreed

sickdsm
09-11-2006, 08:01 PM
Just as american farmers are preying on poor farmers in the developing world by accepting government agricultural subsidies... :angel

Heh, just poking your sensibilities with a stick.

Seriously tho',
Rolling over your house every few years is far from "preying" on younger couples.

It simply provides a supply of housing for what is demanded by the market.

You would prefer that younger couples NOT be allowed to buy houses? (confused)

American farmers are at the back if not still behind all of Europe when it comes to subsidies. There's a reason why subsidies are going down worldwide, its to give America, where workers work harder, an advantage over Europe. But youre talking about about developing countries, right? Tell me what technology fee the south african farmer is paying Monsanto for that super-duper drought tolerant corn hybrid? Tell me what BRAZIL, where there destroying the rain forest to provide a mecca for soybeans, what there seed costs are for roundup ready soybeans?


Same as a bushel of harvested beans, where in america its 6 times the amount. Tell me the consequences of planting a tech. patenented bean?

Nothing in Brazil.

In the US? Its cheaper NOT to combine a field of beans thats around $300 an acre than to pay the fine.


We'll touch more on that when your in tune, dare i start mentioning the HUGE chunk that CRP payments make up of "subsidies" when in reality there appeasing enviromentalists and hurting the active farmer.


But if your making a profit, at the expense of a younger couple, whats the difference than someone who buys/sells one hundred prop. a year for profit? Its OK to make money if it was a home and not a house?


Whether you leave that case of pop under the cart at the checkout line or your a CEO of Enron, stealing is still stealing, right?


So if rolling over your house to a younger couple for a profit isn't preying, how many times in ten years IS? Don't they have to willingly sign anyway?


If the AMOUNT of time you do something makes you have a guilty coinscence, are you any better?


Coming from someone who wants to be able to make a tidy sum from foreclosed property nonetheless. You sound like a late night infomercial directed at the Wal-Mart crowd.

Nbadan
09-13-2006, 04:31 PM
Foreclosures spiked in August
Rising payments on adjustable-rate mortgages contribute to 53% jump in foreclosures.
By Les Christie, CNNMoney.com staff writer
September 13 2006: 2:45 PM EDT


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- With real estate markets slowing and mortgage rates well above levels of recent years, times are getting tougher for homeowners - the number of homes entering into some stage of foreclosure is surging, according to a survey released Wednesday.

In August, 115,292 properties entered into foreclosure, according to RealtyTrac, an online marketplace for foreclosure sales. That was 24 percent above the level in July and 53 percent higher than a year earlier.

* Nevada: Up 255%

* California: Up 160%

* Florida: Up 62%

It was the second highest monthly foreclosure total of the year; in February, 117,151 properties entered foreclosure.

Some of the bellwether real estate market states are among the leading foreclosure markets. Florida, had more than 16,533 properties in foreclosure in August. That led all states and was 50 percent higher than in July and 62 percent higher than in August 2005.

California foreclosures are increasing at an even faster annual rate, up 160 percent since last year to 12,506. And the formerly red-hot Nevada market recorded a spike of 24 percent compared with July and a whopping 255 percent increase from August 2005.

Rick Sharga, RealtyTrac's vice president of marketing, says the rising foreclosure numbers are in part the result of rising monthly payments on adjustable-rate mortgages, which have a low introductory interest rate that heads higher after an initial period.

"Usually, foreclosures are a lagging [market] indicator," he says. "But we've never had a situation like this with adjustable-rate mortgages amounting to $400 billion to $500 billion coming up for adjustment over the rest of the year."

For a homeowner with a 5/1 ARM (an adjustable rate loan with an initial fixed rate for five years that then adjusts annually) that's now resetting, the adjustment could add at least two percentage points to the interest rate. That could send the payment on a $200,000 loan up from about $950 a month closer to $1,200.

CNN Money (http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/13/real_estate/foreclosures_spiking/index.htm?cnn=yes)

Sit, save and wait.

RandomGuy
09-13-2006, 10:45 PM
Florida is in for a massive real estate bust, and insurance companies cease to write hurricane insurance for the state.

RandomGuy
09-13-2006, 10:48 PM
American farmers are at the back if not still behind all of Europe when it comes to subsidies. There's a reason why subsidies are going down worldwide, its to give America, where workers work harder, an advantage over Europe. But youre talking about about developing countries, right? Tell me what technology fee the south african farmer is paying Monsanto for that super-duper drought tolerant corn hybrid? Tell me what BRAZIL, where there destroying the rain forest to provide a mecca for soybeans, what there seed costs are for roundup ready soybeans?


Same as a bushel of harvested beans, where in america its 6 times the amount. Tell me the consequences of planting a tech. patenented bean?

Nothing in Brazil.

In the US? Its cheaper NOT to combine a field of beans thats around $300 an acre than to pay the fine.


We'll touch more on that when your in tune, dare i start mentioning the HUGE chunk that CRP payments make up of "subsidies" when in reality there appeasing enviromentalists and hurting the active farmer.


But if your making a profit, at the expense of a younger couple, whats the difference than someone who buys/sells one hundred prop. a year for profit? Its OK to make money if it was a home and not a house?


Whether you leave that case of pop under the cart at the checkout line or your a CEO of Enron, stealing is still stealing, right?


So if rolling over your house to a younger couple for a profit isn't preying, how many times in ten years IS? Don't they have to willingly sign anyway?


If the AMOUNT of time you do something makes you have a guilty coinscence, are you any better?


Coming from someone who wants to be able to make a tidy sum from foreclosed property nonetheless. You sound like a late night infomercial directed at the Wal-Mart crowd.


Since we are on the topic, of taking advantage of people, aren't you taking advantage of farmers in developing countries by accepting money at all?

The average african farmer can't hope to get a millionth what the average american farmer gets from his government.

Just because the Europeans are doing it, doesn't make it right.

sickdsm
09-14-2006, 07:35 PM
Coming from the same guy who loves shopping at Wal Mart and readily admits to buying whatever cheapest, even if it means not buying ethanol, Do i really care? I at least admit it but to act as if those farmers aren't getting some honey out of the american honeypot is rediculous. Mark my words, thanks to the Peace Corps and other groups, americans will eventually teach others to farm and be in direct competion in the future. But as it stands, i'm not competing against foreign farmers. American agriculture is but the individual isn't, unless he's stupid.

Double crop prices and what happans? We all come out ahead......for a few years. Land prices/rent will skyrocket, seed, fert, spray, etc. will all increase as well.


You don't have to be faster than the tiger, just faster than your buddy.


You on the other hand fail to address your hypocrisy.

smeagol
09-14-2006, 09:11 PM
America's outrageous subsidies to farmers are unjustifiable.

velik_m
09-15-2006, 03:35 AM
America's outrageous subsidies to farmers are unjustifiable.

Europe's also. It's one of the things i hate most about EU.

smeagol
09-15-2006, 12:34 PM
Europe's also. It's one of the things i hate most about EU.
When it comes to subsidies, Europeans are worst than the Americans, especially the French and the German.

boutons_
09-15-2006, 01:23 PM
Individual farmers in Europe very often don't receive the money, and many in France are very poor. The money mostly goes to agri-business, which of course kicks back money to the polticians.

ie, not really different from the USA, which is becoming more European in its forms of institutionalized corruption. ie, the adolescent USA is "growing up" to be like Old Europe. :lol

johnsmith
09-15-2006, 01:24 PM
Individual farmers in Europe very often don't receive the money, and many in France are very poor. The money mostly goes to agri-business, which of course kicks back money to the polticians.

ie, not really different from the USA, which is becoming more European in its forms of institutionalized corruption. ie, the adolescent USA is "growing up" to be like Old Europe. :lol


Seriously, why do you hate it here so much?

sickdsm
09-18-2006, 12:10 PM
Individual farmers in Europe very often don't receive the money, and many in France are very poor. The money mostly goes to agri-business, which of course kicks back money to the polticians.

ie, not really different from the USA, which is becoming more European in its forms of institutionalized corruption. ie, the adolescent USA is "growing up" to be like Old Europe. :lol


Then why do you procede to blame the individual?

RandomGuy
09-18-2006, 01:51 PM
Coming from the same guy who loves shopping at Wal Mart and readily admits to buying whatever cheapest, even if it means not buying ethanol, Do i really care? I at least admit it but to act as if those farmers aren't getting some honey out of the american honeypot is rediculous. Mark my words, thanks to the Peace Corps and other groups, americans will eventually teach others to farm and be in direct competion in the future. But as it stands, i'm not competing against foreign farmers. American agriculture is but the individual isn't, unless he's stupid.

Double crop prices and what happans? We all come out ahead......for a few years. Land prices/rent will skyrocket, seed, fert, spray, etc. will all increase as well.


You don't have to be faster than the tiger, just faster than your buddy.


You on the other hand fail to address your hypocrisy.

Eliminating food subsidies would not make food more expensive.

It would simply make the costs more direct, and mean that farmers would in the end have more money.

Let the market set the price, and instead of the government taxing people, taking out overhead costs, then redistributing the money to farmers, the money would then go directly to the farmers who could produce the product the cheapest. Globalization at it's finest.

sickdsm
09-18-2006, 03:03 PM
You're delusional. Higher prices would mean quicker paths to all corporate farms, much like the hog and milk industry has seen. Now that its all big industry, milk production has become a strictly corporate affair, and that means lower overhead, tighter margins, which in turn push out the remaining private parties faster and it just snowballs from there.


In other words, higher prices lead to lower prices in a hurry.

Cargill, ADM, Continental only care about profits, what makes you think that hamburger wouldn't go to $10 a lb?

Wouldn't that redistributing money that your'e talking about be much like you defaulting on your credit card and that company taking it from the next guy? Even more hypocrisy......

Nbadan
09-18-2006, 03:43 PM
higher prices lead to lower prices in a hurry.

Only on goods that have a substitute or generic equivalent. For instance, there is no substitute for gasoline in a majority of cars on the road and having to take 'alternative means' of transportation for most people is inconvienient, so demand for gas is inelastic, up to a point. So people pay the high prices and cut back on spending on other things.

Nbadan
09-18-2006, 03:47 PM
Eliminating food subsidies would not make food more expensive.

Eliminating all food subsidies would also likely lead to a world-wide food shortage. I'm no fan of subsidies, but I'm also no fan of a country that can't feed itself.

sickdsm
09-18-2006, 04:27 PM
Only on goods that have a substitute or generic equivalent. For instance, there is no substitute for gasoline in a majority of cars on the road and having to take 'alternative means' of transportation for most people is inconvienient, so demand for gas is inelastic, up to a point. So people pay the high prices and cut back on spending on other things.



My point was that if profit is there for the taking, eventually enough people will involve themselves. The cattle industry does this regularly, people are still getting "back into" beef cows, the market will then adjust downward, folks start selling off there cattle and when the supply dips low enough the cylce starts over again. Cattle is unique to crops in that it doesn't take THAT much to get started, you aren't in alot of competition for land yet it takes a few years to reap your first reward.


Crops you are either involved or not. Once you get out, you're not getting back into the game.

smeagol
09-19-2006, 12:34 AM
Eliminating all food subsidies would also likely lead to a world-wide food shortage. I'm no fan of subsidies, but I'm also no fan of a country that can't feed itself.
blah, blah, blah and fucking blah.

Why? Because farmers in the developed world would stop producing?

That is a fucking joke!

The developing world can make enough food to keep us all fat and happy.

smeagol
09-19-2006, 12:36 AM
My point was that if profit is there for the taking, eventually enough people will involve themselves. The cattle industry does this regularly, people are still getting "back into" beef cows, the market will then adjust downward, folks start selling off there cattle and when the supply dips low enough the cylce starts over again. Cattle is unique to crops in that it doesn't take THAT much to get started, you aren't in alot of competition for land yet it takes a few years to reap your first reward.


Crops you are either involved or not. Once you get out, you're not getting back into the game.
I don't get it. So, why apply subsidies to the ineficient farmers, then?

velik_m
09-19-2006, 02:05 AM
blah, blah, blah and fucking blah.

Why? Because farmers in the developed world would stop producing?

That is a fucking joke!

The developing world can make enough food to keep us all fat and happy.

i agree. on top of that, as long as there are subsidies on farming in developed countries, the undeveloped countries will import food, as it's actually cheaper to do so, than grow their own. We are wasting a lot of money to make sure "our" food is cheaper than that of 3rd world countries. That money could be more usefully spent elsewhere.

It is however true, that abolishing subsidies would wipe out slovenian farmers, as even the biggest farms here hardly qualify as small farms in other countries. There is no way our farmes would be able to compete on the open market.

RandomGuy
09-19-2006, 08:17 AM
Eliminating all food subsidies would also likely lead to a world-wide food shortage. I'm no fan of subsidies, but I'm also no fan of a country that can't feed itself.

No it wouldn't.

I would lead to a LOT more people getting into the farming business, and a LOT more farmers in developing countries able to make a decent living.

Since most developing economies are primarily agrarian, policies that hurt farmers, hurt the poorest of the poor.

RandomGuy
09-19-2006, 08:21 AM
i agree. on top of that, as long as there are subsidies on farming in developed countries, the undeveloped countries will import food, as it's actually cheaper to do so, than grow their own. We are wasting a lot of money to make sure "our" food is cheaper than that of 3rd world countries. That money could be more usefully spent elsewhere.

It is however true, that abolishing subsidies would wipe out slovenian farmers, as even the biggest farms here hardly qualify as small farms in other countries. There is no way our farmes would be able to compete on the open market.

It wouldn't wipe out your farmers, it would help them.

Does your government have as much money to give to your farmers as the US government does?

If your farmers could suddenly get more money for their crops, would they then have to depend on your government at all?

If the small farmers made more money, would they be able to afford new things that would help them produce more, like a new cow, or a few extra chickens, or a new tractor, or more fertilizer?

MMMM, economics... :lol

RandomGuy
09-19-2006, 11:38 AM
Getting back to the original topic of the thread:



Foreclosures spiked in August (http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/13/real_estate/foreclosures_spiking/index.htm)
Rising payments on adjustable-rate mortgages contribute to 53% jump in foreclosures.
By Les Christie, CNNMoney.com staff writerSeptember 15 2006: 8:17 AM EDT


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- With real estate markets slowing and mortgage rates well above levels of recent years, times are getting tougher for homeowners - the number of homes entering into some stage of foreclosure is surging, according to a survey released Wednesday.

In August, 115,292 properties entered into foreclosure, according to RealtyTrac, an online marketplace for foreclosure sales. That was 24 percent above the level in July and 53 percent higher than a year earlier.

...

It was the second highest monthly foreclosure total of the year; in February, 117,151 properties entered foreclosure.

Some of the bellwether real estate market states are among the leading foreclosure markets. Florida, had more than 16,533 properties in foreclosure in August. That led all states and was 50 percent higher than in July and 62 percent higher than in August 2005.

...

Rick Sharga, RealtyTrac's vice president of marketing, says the rising foreclosure numbers are in part the result of rising monthly payments on adjustable-rate mortgages, which have a low introductory interest rate that heads higher after an initial period.

....

"Usually, foreclosures are a lagging [market] indicator," he says. "But we've never had a situation like this with adjustable-rate mortgages amounting to $400 billion to $500 billion coming up for adjustment over the rest of the year."

For a homeowner with a 5/1 ARM (an adjustable rate loan with an initial fixed rate for five years that then adjusts annually) that's now resetting, the adjustment could add at least two percentage points to the interest rate. That could send the payment on a $200,000 loan up from about $950 a month closer to $1,200.

These exotic mortgages, which have been issued by lenders at much higher numbers the past few years, default at a higher rate than do fixed-rate mortgages. And sub-prime loans, which are much more common than in the past, have a higher default rate as well.

But, Sharga says, "The real wild card is the nature of the loans themselves. Historically, ARMs were underwritten pretty conservatively. There has been a loosening of standards with lower credit worthiness and smaller down payments."

Underlying causes
Homeowners are also in Dutch because of underlying economic conditions. Many of the worst hit markets, such as in the Midwest, are in areas hard hit by layoffs or other economic ills.

When housing markets were hot, homeowners could often avoid default through two ready made options, according to Sharga: They could sell to a ready market or they could use the increase through appreciation in their equity to refinance their homes. Increasingly, both those options are evaporating.

Contrary to what many consumers may believe, lenders are not anxious to foreclose on homes and put families out on the streets. Foreclosures tend to be money losers for lenders and are done mostly as a last resort.

Sharga says lenders are beginning to recognize that a problem is brewing and are taking steps to address it. They are much more amenable to a short sale, for example, in which they accept a low-ball, cash bid early in the default process that may not even cover their mortgage, in order to avoid a larger loss later. That can help homeowners by preserving their credit scores and easing their transitions into the rental market.

"Lenders say they're looking for ways to work with homeowners in trouble," reports Sharga. "So for homeowners looking at a default situation, the sooner they talk to their lender - and see what options are available - the better."

[bolded text for emphasis--RG]

velik_m
09-19-2006, 02:00 PM
It wouldn't wipe out your farmers, it would help them.

Does your government have as much money to give to your farmers as the US government does?

If your farmers could suddenly get more money for their crops, would they then have to depend on your government at all?

If the small farmers made more money, would they be able to afford new things that would help them produce more, like a new cow, or a few extra chickens, or a new tractor, or more fertilizer?

MMMM, economics... :lol

how do you figure they would get more money? The farmers have new tractors and plenty of fertilezer (<-goverement help!) to work with their micro-farms. Economics? how about economics of scale? average slovenian farm is 1/5th(!!!) of average European farm. (lets not even compare them to american) , more than half of them is smaller than 2ha* and almost 70% smaller than 5ha (and don't asume that the land is in one piece).
Trust me, open market would wipe them out.

* 1 hectare = 2.47105381 acres

RandomGuy
09-20-2006, 07:38 AM
how do you figure they would get more money? The farmers have new tractors and plenty of fertilezer (<-goverement help!) to work with their micro-farms. Economics? how about economics of scale? average slovenian farm is 1/5th(!!!) of average European farm. (lets not even compare them to american) , more than half of them is smaller than 2ha* and almost 70% smaller than 5ha (and don't asume that the land is in one piece).
Trust me, open market would wipe them out.

* 1 hectare = 2.47105381 acres

Not really.

IF all farm subsidies ceased immediately, farmers in countries that have high relative costs of production will be forced to compete with farmers in Slovenia who can produce food cheaper than in say, Britain or Germany.

It isn't about "efficiency" of production, it is about market efficiency.

A US farmer has to pay taxes on land, buy feedstock and grain at prices (in dollar terms) that make it hard for them to compete with developing countries.

Example:
Farmer in America gets $1,000 for a certain amount of grain that he sells in America. He can turn around and buy a certain amount of goods in the US.

Question:
How much stuff in Slovenia could a farmer buy with $1,000? More or less than a US farmer?

You talk about "efficiency" but there are different types of efficiency in economic terms.

Per farmer (labor hour), the US farmer is massively more efficient, but per dollar of capital, the Slovenian farmer is massively more efficient.

In the end the one that has a higher overall efficiency will be the one that can produce a unit of grain cheaper.

velik_m
09-20-2006, 11:58 AM
so our farmers will be wiped out by hungarian and polish farmers, not american...

p.s. prices here are not that far off from yours (in fact cars, gass, computers, books, home appliances... are more expensive, food&drinks, health care and education are cheaper though).

RandomGuy
09-21-2006, 12:51 PM
so our farmers will be wiped out by hungarian and polish farmers, not american...

p.s. prices here are not that far off from yours (in fact cars, gass, computers, books, home appliances... are more expensive, food&drinks, health care and education are cheaper though).

The costs of consumer goods are irrelevant (mostly) to the cost of producing crops.

What matters are all the costs of production. It would be an interesting study to see just how much it costs to farm in Slovenia.

Nbadan
09-21-2006, 03:55 PM
blah, blah, blah and fucking blah.

Why? Because farmers in the developed world would stop producing?

That is a fucking joke!

The developing world can make enough food to keep us all fat and happy.

The developing world doesn't have the farming technology and experience to get the most out of their land like American farmers. They are inefficient, but my real point is that all the extra crops that subsidies produce every year would slowly disappear, and if countries are running at maximum efficiency like businesses, there will be shortages of certain crops during periods of long droughts or disasters.

smeagol
09-21-2006, 09:11 PM
The developing world doesn't have the farming technology and experience to get the most out of their land like American farmers. They are inefficient, but my real point is that all the extra crops that subsidies produce every year would slowly disappear, and if countries are running at maximum efficiency like businesses, there will be shortages of certain crops during periods of long droughts or disasters.
Not true, again.

There is plenty of land and readily available tecnology in the developing world regarding farming. That's what many of the 3rd world countries are good at (in many cases, the only thing they are good at).

Please stop embarassing yourself trying to defend the undefindible (subsidies), for Chrisstsake.

Guru of Nothing
09-21-2006, 10:19 PM
My advice to first time home buyers, GO BUY THE FUCKING HOUSE. I was 23 when I bought my first house and I honestly didn't have a clue that I could afford it. Go to one of those neighborhoods that are just being built, find the smallest, cheapest one, put a couple thousand bucks down and buy a place. Then, about a year or two later, when you have the money for a nicer, bigger, or whatever you want kind of place, do what I did and rent the place out, or sell it for that matter and buy what you really want. Your mortgage, even at current interest rates, will NOT be a whole lot more then your rent, unfortunately, here in the great state of Texas, if you do live here, property taxes are a bitch because the local government finds it necessary to penalize property owners and not make everyone pay for education (dumb motherfuckers). I'm telling you, there is no better investment, in my opinion, then owning your own home. GO BUY IT BEFORE RATES GO UP, and remember, rates are at like 6.2% or some shit right now but the average home owner in America pays something like 9% (someone feel free to correct me on that but I think it's around there), so therefore, rates aren't that damn high yet.

Master the paragraph, AND THEN offer me financial planning advice.

Please.

smeagol
09-22-2006, 06:28 AM
Master the paragraph, AND THEN offer me financial planning advice.

Please.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao
:rollin :rollin :rollin
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

sickdsm
09-22-2006, 12:16 PM
Not true, again.

There is plenty of land and readily available tecnology in the developing world regarding farming. That's what many of the 3rd world countries are good at (in many cases, the only thing they are good at).

Please stop embarassing yourself trying to defend the undefindible (subsidies), for Chrisstsake.


Actually, he's dead on. American interests like the Peace Corps and other groups are showing other countries how to farm. There's plenty of tech and land but the same person doesn't have access to both.

I find it funny though how its assumed that american farmers can't make it outside of US subsidies but noone mentions the farmers that either pack it up and farm in Brazil or Ukraine.

smeagol
09-23-2006, 07:52 PM
Actually, he's dead on. American interests like the Peace Corps and other groups are showing other countries how to farm. There's plenty of tech and land but the same person doesn't have access to both.

I find it funny though how its assumed that american farmers can't make it outside of US subsidies but noone mentions the farmers that either pack it up and farm in Brazil or Ukraine.

He is not dead on. He is wrong and so are you.

There might be regions where technology is not available, but I can bet you that if US and Europeans farmers where not grossly aided by their rich "I'm pro free markets except when it is not in my best interest" governments, sooner or later that technology would reach those places.

In any case, there are vast parts of the world where the land and the technology are readily available (Latin America, Australia and NZ, parts of India).

And lastly, not all US farmers would stop producing if subsidies went away (and subsidies won't go away from one year to another, they will be gradually eliminated).

So your contention that we would starve without subsidies is cowshit. Smelly and subsidized cowshit.

Nbadan
09-24-2006, 12:31 AM
You just can't teach someone who refuses to believe what we know is fact. American farmers get more crop per acre than their European, South and Central American counter-parts - period.

If there was no sudsidy for wheat then less farmers would grow wheat. The world-wide price of wheat would rise and supply would fall, but only long enough till more wheat farmers got into the business. Trouble is, those new wheat farmers would be in places like Ukraine, Greenland and Canada as America's bread-basket treks north thanks to global warming. America would become like Japan, a nation that depends on other countries to feed its burgening population.

RandomGuy
09-24-2006, 09:17 AM
The developing world doesn't have the farming technology and experience to get the most out of their land like American farmers. They are inefficient, but my real point is that all the extra crops that subsidies produce every year would slowly disappear, and if countries are running at maximum efficiency like businesses, there will be shortages of certain crops during periods of long droughts or disasters.

The developing world farmer will not get the most out of it per acre.

The WOULD get the most crop per dollar cost of production.

There is a LOT of farmable land in the world, not all of which is in the US.

Actually, in some parts of the world, PER ACRE, farmers are MORE efficient than in the US. Asian rice farmers for example.

WHY?

Because mechanized capital-intensive farming requires some trade-offs. You have to plant a certain way with enough space inbetween plants to fit a machine through, among other things.

Because capital is more expensive, and labor relatively cheaper than in the US, any farming process in the developing world that is labor intensive will give the farmer using lots of labor (rice paddies) a competitive advantage.

Or so the economic theory goes.

In the end it is all about cost of production. $1000 per year farmers will beat $5,000,000 machines more often than one might think.

velik_m
09-24-2006, 03:47 PM
You just can't teach someone who refuses to believe what we know is fact. American farmers get more crop per acre than their European, South and Central American counter-parts - period.

If there was no sudsidy for wheat then less farmers would grow wheat. The world-wide price of wheat would rise and supply would fall, but only long enough till more wheat farmers got into the business. Trouble is, those new wheat farmers would be in places like Ukraine, Greenland and Canada as America's bread-basket treks north thanks to global warming. America would become like Japan, a nation that depends on other countries to feed its burgening population.

plenty of americans have enough fat to last them a few years of starving.

RandomGuy
09-24-2006, 06:28 PM
plenty of americans have enough fat to last them a few years of starving.

You got that right. I wouldn't quite last "years" but still have a bit I could lose by a stint on a deserted island...

smeagol
09-24-2006, 09:17 PM
You just can't teach someone who refuses to believe what we know is fact. American farmers get more crop per acre than their European, South and Central American counter-parts - period.

If there was no sudsidy for wheat then less farmers would grow wheat. The world-wide price of wheat would rise and supply would fall, but only long enough till more wheat farmers got into the business. Trouble is, those new wheat farmers would be in places like Ukraine, Greenland and Canada as America's bread-basket treks north thanks to global warming. America would become like Japan, a nation that depends on other countries to feed its burgening population.

SO then let's screw with the free market America claims to defend by subsidizing the hell out of the crops American farmers produce.

Fuck that!

If America has to depend on other countries to feed its population (whatever that means, given that many American agro-business, i.e. Cargill, AMD, Monsanto, are doing business overseas), so be it.

Don't contribute to the starvation of poor countries because your farmers cannot compete in a free market without the help of Uncle Sam.

RandomGuy
09-23-2008, 10:49 AM
You heard it first from me. I was reading about this for about a year before posting this.

The OP is from September of 2006.

SpursFanFirst
09-23-2008, 11:01 AM
Why would that make a differnce? You don't need to have it paid off in order to sell it and make a profit..............

I guess what he was saying is that, in places like CA, people were buying homes for say $400,000...then in 2 years, they were able to turn around and sell it for $600,000.
The prices of homes were rising so rapidly out there, people were able to make a profit in a short period of time.

RandomGuy
09-23-2008, 11:03 AM
I guess what he was saying is that, in places like CA, people were buying homes for say $400,000...then in 2 years, they were able to turn around and sell it for $600,000.
The prices of homes were rising so rapidly out there, people were able to make a profit in a short period of time.

uh, the post you are responding to is over 2 years old, and I doubt the guy still posts here.

SpursFanFirst
09-23-2008, 11:03 AM
I just hope interest rates don't go the way they were for my parents first home.. they were paying 16.9% on a VHA.

:wow WHOA!
When was this?

SpursFanFirst
09-23-2008, 11:06 AM
Renters pay property taxes too.

Not in Indiana. :(

SpursFanFirst
09-23-2008, 11:07 AM
uh, the post you are responding to is over 2 years old, and I doubt the guy still posts here.

:lol oops...I didn't look at the date obviously.
I'll stop reading this thread now.

NASCARdad
09-23-2008, 11:15 AM
ARM's are for idiots.

Lance
09-23-2008, 11:27 AM
Any vets out there that don't know about the TVLB should check it out. Lenders are falling all over themselves to loan you (technically the TVLB) money for a house.


Even if we have bad credit? you have a link?

SpursFanFirst
09-23-2008, 11:44 AM
Even if we have bad credit? you have a link?

I just did a quick google search and came up with several possibilities...

http://www.glo.state.tx.us/vlb/land/index.html

http://tvlb.tx-realty.net/?Source=TVLB-Google

http://www.texasranchland.com/TLVB-ex.htm

Hopefully this will help you out some.

Lance
09-23-2008, 01:16 PM
Thanks! I goggled TLVB and got nowhere.

RandomGuy
09-23-2008, 01:40 PM
Thanks! I goggled TLVB and got nowhere.

That is my fault.

"TLVB" is a typo.

It is the Texas Veterans Land Board. (TVLB)

There are some unique features to the loans, as you will find out.
Bear in mind that the US government also offers a SMALL loan guarantee of about $36,000 where the governmet will gaurantee that part of the loan. This is in addition to the TVLB loans.

Here is the link:


http://www.glo.state.tx.us/vlb/

RandomGuy
09-23-2008, 01:46 PM
ARM's are for idiots.

Not quite.

ARM's are for people who are REALLY rich (8 figures or more net worth) and can afford them.

Anybody else is asking for trouble, though.