All-time underachievers

[Kori Ellis]

All-time underachievers
Charley Rosen / Special to FOXSports.com
Posted: 24 minutes ago

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5948258

Hey, Charley. I'd love to get your opinion about the biggest underachievers in NBA history. — Paolo Cruz — Tempe, AZ

Thanks for your interesting request.

It should be noted, however, that I don't equate an underachieving player with one whose talents were simply inadequate. Also, the following Baker's dozen list of players is presented in no particular order.


Stromile Swift — Has all the tools to be an All-Star, but lacks an understanding of the game. As far as he's concerned, there's no reason to pay attention to what's going on out there unless he has the ball in his hands.

Rasheed Wallace — Except for the 2004 playoffs and the 22 games he played with Detroit that season, Wallace has been a model of inconsistency. Blame his failure to be an All-Star-caliber performer night in and night out on his emotional instability.

Tim Thomas — If he were tougher, both mentally and physically, he wouldn't be a chronic rider on the NBA merry-go-round.

Eddy Curry — Will he ever get into game shape? Will he ever learn how to pass? Rebound? Defend? Bounce the ball without turning it over? This guy has All-Star moves when he can catch the ball with his foot in the paint — but, after five years in the league, he still plays like a confused rookie.

Derrick Coleman — He could score from near and far. He could also rebound, pass, handle and even play a modicum of defense — whenever the spirit moved him, which it didn't do often enough.

Ralph Sampson — A lack of toughness was his main problem. And at 7-foot-4, he'd rather diddle with the ball in the backcourt than wrestle with the other bigs in the paint. With the proper coaching, the proper motivation and without any interference from the myopic media, Sampson should/could have been a premier defensive specialist.

Frankie J. Sanders — San Antonio's No. 1 draft pick out of Southern University in 1978 had the whole package. He could run, jump and shoot with any of the NBA's elite wings, and he was even capable of playing earnest defense. But Frankie J. (his self-proclaimed middle initial stands for "Jump-shot") was more interested in partying than in buckling down and taking full advantage of his incredible talents. After 69 games with the Spurs, Celtics and Kings, Sanders became a CBA lifer.

Elmore Smith — On the basis of sheer talent, Smith was a Hall-of-Famer. Too bad he really didn't like playing basketball.

Mel Davis — Too stubborn for his own good, Davis was unwilling to work on his weaknesses (defense and running plays). Instead, he relied exclusively on his outstanding hops and streaky jumper to keep him in the league. He provides an early example of the too-young-too-much-too-soon syndrome that continues to diminish the full potential of some NBA hooplings.

Cal Ramsey — He measured only 6-4 and weighed only 200 pounds, but Ramsey was a ferocious rebounder and defender at the small forward position. Despite that fact, his entire NBA career consisted of 13 games with St. Louis, New York and Syracuse from 1959-61.

Ramsey is too nice to complain about any personal injustices done to him, but the primary reason why his NBA days were so limited was the color of his skin. Simply put, Ramsey was one of the several African-American players in those days (Cleo Hill and Barry White are others) who were led out of the league due to quotas.

Jack Molinas — He played a total of only 29 games for the 1953-54 Fort Wayne Pistons, averaging 7.2 rebounds and 12.1 points per game. Molinas was good enough to have merited a rare honor — being named to participate in the All-Star game as a rookie. Too bad he'd rather gamble on hoops than play hoops.

When the NBA tapped several of his incriminating telephone conversations with a bookie, Molinas was ousted from the league just days before the All-Star game. Molinas went on to become a fixer of numerous college games in cahoots with various mobsters, a producer of porno-films, a jail bird and ultimately a shot-in-the-head victim of mob justice.

Reggie Harding — A powerhouse 7-foot, 260-pound center, Harding had the stuff to be a legendary NBA big man. Actually, he did become a legend: For covering the walls of his hotel room with his own excrement while he was on the road with the Pistons; for wearing only a flimsy mask and trying to hold up a store where he'd shopped for years in his own neighborhood; for averaging a double-double in his first two years with Detroit (1963-65) and also with Indiana in the ABA (1967-68); and for being killed in suspicious circumstances at age 30.

Joe Barry Carroll — Despite some impressive numbers — 24.1 ppg for Golden State in 1982-83, plus three more seasons averaging more than 20, Carroll sleep-walked through most of his career. Hence his nickname, Joe "Barely Cares."


Here are some others who failed to make the cut:

Carlos Arroyo — A point guard who's too reluctant to give up the ball.

Charles Barkley — A poisonous presence in the locker room, who was the source of much team-wide disharmony and who rarely played hard on defense.

Vince Carter — Despite his stupendous talents, he seems to have little understanding of how to play winning basketball.

Stephon Marbury — See Vince Carter

Tyson Chandler — Still too young and too sensitive to play at maximum effectiveness.

Baron Davis — Too self-involved to be a winner.

Zach Randolph — Overweight and lazy.

Kareem Rush — Still trying to live off the glory of several outstanding playoff games with the Lakers.

Chris Webber — Like the Cowardly Lion, he'd be a true monster if he only had a heart.

Bonzi Wells — Like the Scarecrow, he'd be an all-time high-flyer if he acted like he had a brain.

Charley Rosen is FOXSports.com's NBA analyst and author of 13 books about hoops, the current one being "The pivotal season, How the 1971-72 L.A. Lakers changed the NBA."

[strangeweather]

I don't usually care for Rosen, but that's a pretty dead on piece.


Chris Webber — Like the Cowardly Lion, he'd be a true monster if he only had a heart.
:lol

[smeagol]

I don't think Sequ agrees with what's been said about Vagina Carter.

[JMarkJohns]

Where the hell is Laettner? Proved he could his first several years in Minnesota, but never wanted to consistantly. Definately the great white hope that never lived up to expectations. Easily could have, to boot.

[Solid D]

Chris Washburn doped himself into supreme underachievement.

[Zunni]

Chris Washburn doped himself into supreme underachievement.
I remember reading that the GS front office was asking other ACC coaches about Washburn. Dean Smith said "Chris is one of the top talents I've ever seen. I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole, though." GS ignored him and drafted the druggie anyway.

[Solid D]

How about Stinka Dare? Helped Mike Jarvis' George Washington get to the NCAA tournament twice, including the Sweet 16, he signs a 6-year deal with the Nets and then _________________ (flat line).

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I always thought J R Reid should have been a much better player than he turned out...

Rod Strickland was another Bonzi, a guy with great talent and no brain.

[ShoogarBear]

Frankie J. Sanders? :lol Damn, that's a reach.

Beno is angling for a spot on this list if he doesn't pull his head out.

[orhe]

I'd put grant hill in there...

[JMarkJohns]

I'd put grant hill in there...

It was hardly Hill's fault that a half-dozen surgeries couldn't fix a simple break in his foot to the point where he could comfortably play, let alone play at the previous level.

Hill is a tragedy and shouldn't be lumped in with any underachievers.

To underachieve, one must be able to, but just not care. Hill cared, but was never able. BIG DIFFERENCE!

[polandprzem]

Where is Wilt

[texbound]

A couple of more:

Pervis Ellison
Bryant "Big Country" Reeves (not really his fault, but he was overvalued by the Grizzlies)
Alfrederick "The Ghost" Hughes (I don't think I have to say anything about him)
Harold "Don't Call me Baby Jordan" Minor
Shawn "My Baby's Daddy" Kemp (pissed his talent away)
Dennis "I Love Children" Scott (one the best outside shooters coming out of college)
Lionel "L Train" Simmons
Anfernee Hardaway
Isaiah "JR" Rider
Kenny Anderson (Some may disagree with this, but I thought he could've been one of the best PG to ever play the game)
Jim Jackson
and David Robinson (Just kidding)

[ca®lo]

no kandiman?

[V-2]

J. Mashburn comes in mind.

[samikeyp]

Alfredrick Hughes.

[ShoogarBear]

Hughes wasn't an underachiever. The guy couldn't play. To be an underachiever, you have to have talent, but not work hard at developing or utilizing it.

[samikeyp]

Ahh...very true. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

http://graphics.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline_Archives/Celtics_5.25.jpg

[He hasn't heard his name yet]

[SpursWillOwn]

underachievers are not supposed to win rings.. he won.. so he's achieving

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Antoine Walker!!!!! :lmao

[mavs>spurs2]

http://graphics.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline_Archives/Celtics_5.25.jpg

[He hasn't heard his name yet]

Makes me sick just thinking that this underachiever has a ring........

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

underachievers are not supposed to win rings.. he won.. so he's achieving
So Darko as of now isn't an underachiever because was a 2nd overall 12th man on a championship team?

[freedom&justice]

Hate to say this since Sheed is included, but...I totally agree with this piece. That Carlos Arroyo one was dead-on; watching that guy try to run the pistons' offense last year was pure torture.

[ChumpDumper]

underachievers are not supposed to win rings.. he won.. so he's achievingAre you kiding me? Dude could've been the next Magic. Instead he decided to be the archetypal chucker for generations to come.

[Zunni]

Where is Wilt
WTF?

[withcheese]

underachieving players who played for the spurs in the last ten years:

derek anderson
j.r. reid
antonio daniels
jarren jackson

[z0sa]

i agree with sheed being in there... his entire career except for 2004, its almost always been all talk.

[ambchang]

Benoit Benjamin anyone?

[RC's Boss]

It was hardly Hill's fault that a half-dozen surgeries couldn't fix a simple break in his foot to the point where he could comfortably play, let alone play at the previous level.

Hill is a tragedy and shouldn't be lumped in with any underachievers.

To underachieve, one must be able to, but just not care. Hill cared, but was never able. BIG DIFFERENCE!
Chris Webber had surgery and never was the same afterwards either. Same for Penny Hardaway. Think as you will, but w/ out having to go thru arthroscopic surgery, these guys would have put up all star caliber numbers for several years. I had the surgery, trust me, while it heals the problem you are never the same. It was a whole year b4 I could touch a rim again and I'm 6'2! :rolleyes .... They were very good players before then.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Hughes wasn't an underachiever. The guy couldn't play. To be an underachiever, you have to have talent, but not work hard at developing or utilizing it.

And you mentioned Beno...?

[ShoogarBear]

And you mentioned Beno...?Yep.

I can't think of any superhuman ability required to bring the ball up court.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Yep.

I can't think of any superhuman ability required to bring the ball up court.

But was he really overhyped in his dribbling-into-the-frountcourt ability?

[ShoogarBear]

But was he really overhyped in his dribbling-into-the-frountcourt ability?That's exactly my point. Nobody's expecting anything special in that regard. Just the minimum acceptable standards for an NBA point guard, which he would be able to achieve if he worked at it.

[phyzik]

What about the entire starting linup for the current Houston Suck-its. They are pretty underachieving.

[NBA Junkie]

no kandiman?

He gets my vote.

[NBA Junkie]

Bobby Hurley

[Melmart1]

Does Kandi count? I mean, to me the reason he is not a better player is cus he is a lazy fuck. However, even if he wasn't lazy I don't believe he has good enough skills to qualify as an underachiever. To me an underachiever is more like Marbury who has super skills but can't get it right for whatever reason.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

I cannot believe that no one has mention DARIUS MILES. He is without a doubt the most underachieving player in the NBA today.
Agreed :tu But Id also throw in his boy Q Richardson. Oh and Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury.

[mavs>spurs2]

Agreed :tu But Id also throw in his boy Q Richardson. Oh and Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury.
What do these players have in common? They are all very selfish players who like to jack alot of shots.

[DieMrBond]

Bobby Hurley

Really?


Robert Matthew Hurley (born June 28, 1971 in Jersey City, New Jersey) is a former All-American point guard for Duke University's men's basketball team, 1989-1993. Hurley became the NCAA All-Time Assist Leader, and he also led the Blue Devils to back-to back national championships. Meanwhile, he earned the Final Four MVP honors in 1992.

Hurley was selected by the Sacramento Kings as the 7th pick in the 1993 NBA Draft. While returning home following a game in December of his rookie season, Hurley's pickup truck was slammed into by a drunk driver. Having not worn a seat belt, Hurley was thrown from his truck and suffered life-threatening injuries. He returned to the NBA for the 1994-1995 season, and played four more years beyond that. After retiring, Hurley went on to become a thoroughbred racehorse owner and breeder. He was also hired as a scout by the Philadelphia 76ers in 2003, and he has mentioned aspirations to become a coach.

Does being hit by a drunk driver make you an underachiever? It might make him a bit silly for not wearing a seatbelt, but the dude came back from being practically a cripple to playing in the NBA again. Id say that makes him an overachiever.

My vote goes to one of the draft picks that went number one, and just went no where - Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi, Joe Smith, Derrick Coleman, Pervis Ellison, Danny Manning etc etc.

My other vote (jokingly) goes to Andrew Gaze, guy flat out dominated Australian basketball for years @ like 40ppg, and couldnt get much tick in the NBA :)

[trueD]

Does Kandi count? I mean, to me the reason he is not a better player is cus he is a lazy fuck. However, even if he wasn't lazy I don't believe he has good enough skills to qualify as an underachiever. To me an underachiever is more like Marbury who has super skills but can't get it right for whatever reason.Maybe what qualified Kandi is he was a #1 draft pick. edit: <<Looks like MrBond got in ahead of me with this info, I should not try and post and watch the news at the same time.

But yeah, I'd put Kandi in the same category with Greg friggin' Ostertag; real big and kinda dumb. I don't know about the Kandiman, but O-Tag is actually a likeable character. He just sucked royally.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Really?
My vote goes to one of the draft picks that went number one, and just went no where - Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi, Joe Smith, Derrick Coleman, Pervis Ellison, Danny Manning etc etc.

My other vote (jokingly) goes to Andrew Gaze, guy flat out dominated Australian basketball for years @ like 40ppg, and couldnt get much tick in the NBA :)

That's a bit harsh on Danny Manning. He was crippled by injuries for most of his NBA career, and when he wasn't he kicked arse and took names (see 92-94 for the Clips):

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/danny_manning/index.html

As for Gaze, I concede that you were joking, but he finally went to the NBA when he was 35 (except for a 7 game stint with the Bullets in 1994), and he was never quick or athletic (smart man's balla all the way), so he was never going to set the NBA on fire. On the flipside, absolutely the nicest guy you will ever meet, and one helluva player at any other level you care to name...

"Andrew Gaze has played in a record five Olympic Games, he is the highest point scorer in Olympic history, he has played in four world championships and is the second highest point scorer in world championship history."

http://www.interbasket.net/players/gaze.htm

[polandprzem]

Has KG uchieved something?

Well - he has the MVP

[DieMrBond]

That's a bit harsh on Danny Manning. He was crippled by injuries for most of his NBA career, and when he wasn't he kicked arse and took names (see 92-94 for the Clips):

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/danny_manning/index.html

As for Gaze, I concede that you were joking, but he finally went to the NBA when he was 35 (except for a 7 game stint with the Bullets in 1994), and he was never quick or athletic (smart man's balla all the way), so he was never going to set the NBA on fire. On the flipside, absolutely the nicest guy you will ever meet, and one helluva player at any other level you care to name...

"Andrew Gaze has played in a record five Olympic Games, he is the highest point scorer in Olympic history, he has played in four world championships and is the second highest point scorer in world championship history."

http://www.interbasket.net/players/gaze.htm

Good point about Danny Manning, as i was typing that i saw his name and looked twice... i think i had disappointment, not underachiever for Mr Manning. He was an 'if only he didnt get injured' player ala Grant Hill

With Gaze, i have no idea how he dominated the NBL all those years... but i wasnt trying to put him down at all - i like the dude (even tho he kept beating my home team) i just wish he had gotten a better chance when he was younger! He is Basketball Australia.

[SenorSpur]

Benoit Benjamin
Darryl Dawkins

[mathbzh]

I am french so my vote goes to Jerome Moiso.

[orhe]

now that i think about it...

underachiever
i think one underachieves when his play hints of genius but he never does it consistently... and one who does not bring it in big games...

Antoine Walker is not an underachiever he's just a chucker who plays smaller than his height... but the talent is just not there... his balance while moving sucks... his shooting sucks... he does not have great speed... etc etc

IMO in terms of results Wilt underachieved :D

[orhe]

and stromile swift i don't think the talent is there... sure he's athletic but when he gets hit his balance suffers a lot... that's why he's not as good offensively as he should be... his balance/footwork sucks

[SenorSpur]

and stromile swift i don't think the talent is there... sure he's athletic but when he gets hit his balance suffers a lot... that's why he's not as good offensively as he should be... his balance/footwork sucks

.....as Charles Barkley said about Stromile Swift

"that boy and run and jump like a deer. But, I would never put a deer in the game."

[nkdlunch]

remember laphonso ellis?

[ambchang]

remember laphonso ellis?
Guy was hurt real bad. Came back, redefined his game, and had a couple of more games. Sad story really.
Bo Kimble? Billy Owens?

[shelshor]

I still love to rag on Cherokee Parks
And I was expecting much better from Bryant "Big Country" Reeves

[wildbill2u]

what about Lloyd Whatisname. He was touted as the best player ever to come off the courts of New York, got into trouble, never went to college, but was finally brought to the Spurs under Jerry Tarkanian.

Speaking of underachievers, Tarkanian. a legendary college coach at UNLV only lasted about 6 weeks in the NBA>

[Supergirl]

underachievers are not supposed to win rings.. he won.. so he's achieving

Which is exactly my objection to including Rasheed Wallace on this list. Had he stayed in Portland and continued to spiral downwards, he would have been perfect for this list. But he moved to Detroit, and gave them that extra piece they needed to win a ring in 2004. They wouldn't have won it without him, IMO.

[Supergirl]

I still love to rag on Cherokee Parks
And I was expecting much better from Bryant "Big Country" Reeves

And if we're including Cherokee Parks, we gotta include Mikki Moore, too. Two 7 footers multiple teams expected to be great, but who were all disappointed.

[Kori Ellis]

I'd include Cherokee Parks somewhere on the list because he was a 12th overall draft pick and was a bust. But Mikki Moore was undrafted, so he can't be an underachiever. Just getting to the NBA is a great achievement by an undrafted player.

Olowokandi is high up on my list because he was a number one overall pick and he just seemed not to care enough to play hard. I know he's talented enough because I've seen him have monster games. But he's just doesn't care to try. Now it looks like he's underachieved his way right out of the NBA and will end up playing in Europe.

[JamStone]

I didn't read the whole thread, but here are a few of mine that may not have already been mentioned:

Glenn Robinson: had a solid career, even a few all-star seasons, but out of Purdue, people were calling him a future Hall of Famer.

Walt Williams: the "Magician" was one of my favorite players, he could do everything on the court and I thought he had the talent to be similar to Magic Johnson, plus he could shoot lights out. I don't know why he couldn't get to that next level of greatness.

Joe Smith: I saw Rasheed Wallace get discussed, which in some parts is fair, but Joe Smith was drafted higher than Rasheed in 1995 and was regarded as the better player by many. If Rasheed is anywhere close to being an underachiever, what is Joe Smith?

Ed O'Bannon: I'm relunctant to mention O'Bannon, because I don't really think he under-achieved as much as he over-achieved in college. I just think people, most notably the Nets, valued his talent more than they should. He just wasn't that good. He was a winner, but not very good.

Ron Mercer: I think he could have been great.

Calbert Cheaney: He could have had a career similar to what Michael Redd is starting to have.

Brad Daugherty: classic under-achieving big man.

Danny Manning: Call it the curse of the Clippers, he should have done more in his NBA career.

[samikeyp]

Ron Mercer: I think he could have been great.

a lot of Spurs fans did too.

[ducks]

lebron james

[ShoogarBear]

Brad Daugherty: classic under-achieving big man.

WTF?

He averaged 19 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3.7 apg for his career, including three straight 20-10 years. Played in 5 All-Star games, wsa third-team All-NBA in 1991-1992. The only reason he didn't make more All-NBA teams is he played during the Hakeem-DRob-Ewing heydays, and his career was abruptly cut short by back injuries.

[Supergirl]

I'd include Cherokee Parks somewhere on the list because he was a 12th overall draft pick and was a bust. But Mikki Moore was undrafted, so he can't be an underachiever. Just getting to the NBA is a great achievement by an undrafted player.

Olowokandi is high up on my list because he was a number one overall pick and he just seemed not to care enough to play hard. I know he's talented enough because I've seen him have monster games. But he's just doesn't care to try. Now it looks like he's underachieved his way right out of the NBA and will end up playing in Europe.

Good points. Cherokee Parks was the #12 pick? Wow. Yikes. Man, I hope that exec has lost his job. And Kandi was the #1 pick - I forgot that. He should be ranked the #1 underachiever, on that basis, along with Darko.

[dbestpro]

Good points. Cherokee Parks was the #12 pick? Wow. Yikes. Man, I hope that exec has lost his job. And Kandi was the #1 pick - I forgot that. He should be ranked the #1 underachiever, on that basis, along with Darko.

The jury is still out on Darko. Kandi has been tried and convicted.

[SpellCheckChic]

Stinka Dare? :lmao

Wait, is this right?

[himat]

So far Sheed should be on that list unfortunantly, but he knows he'll HAVE to play to the top of his ability for the Pistons to be Champs. If he does that he's definantly off the list, but if Sheed stays the same the Pistons will have a bumpy ride this season.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Get off the Danny Manning thing already - see my post on page 2 of this thread.

NO WAY Daugherty underachieved! He was an awesome player! Those Nance-Daugherty-Price teams were great to watch (they could really pass), and but for the fact that they were playing during the NBA's heyday, they might have won something.