WTF? Intel's killing AMD for once

[baseline bum]

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/08/02/thg_tuning_test/

I was planning to build an FX-62 based system in two weeks or so until I started studying up on Conroe. The 6800 looks freaking ridiculous. Even the $340 6600 kills the $820 FX-62. It rapes the FX-62 on integer operations and merely bends it over and DPs it in floating point. This is ridiculous how much faster it is even at stock speed in Ogg-Vorbis encoding and H.264, and it looks to be worth the extra $180 or so over the FX-62. This will be the first time I've ever built an Intel-based system. I gotta study up and see if there's any good SLI boards (I'm going for two 7950x2 graphics boards and nothing less).

The $350 6600 @ stock speed kills an $820 FX-62 in COD 2, and is (very) competitive in Unreal Tournament 2004. For the $1000 6800, it's not even a comparison when you consider it versus the FX-62 in anything.

[leemajors]

voodoo 2 sli ruled! i need to build a new system around christmas, and i haven't looked at toms hardware in forever. thanks for the link.

[mouse]

I have found 5 PC's in the Dumpter this year and all the CPU's where AMD.

They have some sort of over heating issues, When I bring them home I put my finger on the chip to see if it's getting warm and last time I could not remove my skin from the chip. Next gtg I will show you my finger.

I hate all the PC war Bullshit. I wish AMD Intel Mac and Windows could just come together and make a virus/error free PC that does not over heat. I guess I would would have a better chance getting Slomo to take BuddyHolly to dinner :lmao

[dougp]

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/08/02/thg_tuning_test/

I was planning to build an FX-62 based system in two weeks or so until I started studying up on Conroe. The 6800 looks freaking ridiculous. Even the $340 6600 kills the $820 FX-62. It rapes the FX-62 on integer operations and merely bends it over and DPs it in floating point. This is ridiculous how much faster it is even at stock speed in Ogg-Vorbis encoding and H.264, and it looks to be worth the extra $180 or so over the FX-62. This will be the first time I've ever built an Intel-based system. I gotta study up and see if there's any good SLI boards (I'm going for two 7950x2 graphics boards and nothing less).

The $350 6600 @ stock speed kills an $820 FX-62 in COD 2, and is (very) competitive in Unreal Tournament 2004. For the $1000 6800, it's not even a comparison when you consider it versus the FX-62 in anything.
The 6300 that's priced at $180ish is getting insane STOCK COOLER/OPEN AIR overclocking ... http://consumer.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTE1MCw1LCxoY29uc3VtZXI

A freakin 1GHZ OC is rather nuts, and for the low price, would be well worth it if you end up burning it up in a year or so.

[Steve Perry]

Enigma is right even though I stop listening to his music in 1998. The over clocking shit is getting out of control. It's like these kids who put Nitrous Oxide in a VW bug it just fucks things up.

[dougp]

Enigma is right even though I stop listening to his music in 1998. The over clocking shit is getting out of control. It's like these kids who put Nitrous Oxide in a VW bug it just fucks things up.
Last thing I OCed was a P4 1.6a ... that fucker got 800mhz pretty easy on stock cooling, my friend got 1.2GHZ out of it.

On a laptop now, so OCing isn't much of an option because I don't really feel like pin modding one of the 400fsb dothans.

[Fillmoe]

im rockin a a64....... never owned an intel chip in my life.....

[Slomo]

. I guess I would would have a better chance getting Slomo to take BuddyHolly to dinner :lmaoYeah, but just barely. :lol

[Guru of Nothing]

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/08/02/thg_tuning_test/

I was planning to build an FX-62 based system in two weeks or so until I started studying up on Conroe. The 6800 looks freaking ridiculous. Even the $340 6600 kills the $820 FX-62. It rapes the FX-62 on integer operations and merely bends it over and DPs it in floating point. This is ridiculous how much faster it is even at stock speed in Ogg-Vorbis encoding and H.264, and it looks to be worth the extra $180 or so over the FX-62. This will be the first time I've ever built an Intel-based system. I gotta study up and see if there's any good SLI boards (I'm going for two 7950x2 graphics boards and nothing less).

The $350 6600 @ stock speed kills an $820 FX-62 in COD 2, and is (very) competitive in Unreal Tournament 2004. For the $1000 6800, it's not even a comparison when you consider it versus the FX-62 in anything.


Some people manage their computer, some people get managed by their computer.

[baseline bum]

Sorry man, I want a system I can play every game made (except freaking Oblivion) at maxed out everything with maxed out antialiasing.

[dougp]

Sorry man, I want a system I can play every game made (except freaking Oblivion) at maxed out everything with maxed out antialiasing.
You should be more worried about getting a video card then.

[PakiDan]

Nerd Forum

[Nbadan]

This will be the first time I've ever built an Intel-based system

I think their easier to build than AMDs cause there is less chance of frying the core installing the damn heatsink. What kind of video cards you looking at BB?

[baseline bum]

You should be more worried about getting a video card then.

No.. video cards. I'm putting two 7950x2s in my new rig.

[dougp]

No.. video cards. I'm putting two 7950x2s in my new rig.
Your computer is giving me a geeky wet dream ... 6800 and two 7950s? Please dear god, tell me you're gonna put 4gigs of DDR2 in that ...

[DarkReign]

No.. video cards. I'm putting two 7950x2s in my new rig.

Youre probably rich because any PC guy who isnt knows to wait until February to upgrade/build anything.

[baseline bum]

What's up with February? I heard DirectX10 hardware is still a long way off.

[DarkReign]

What's up with February? I heard DirectX10 hardware is still a long way off.

I say February only because thats when Vista is supposed to come out. With that DX10 comes out.

The hardware is already in the works. nVidia and ATI have known all they ever needed to know for some time.

My point is, youre right. It will take a couple months for the first reliable DX10 enabled cards to hit market. But until then, to me, there is absolutely no point to buy a vga until they come out. I use a 6800 right now, and it smokes. Why would I pay $600 for a dual vga that wont be able take full advantage of dx10 in less than year?

So, we come back to, youre either rich or very impatient to waste money. Upgrading a PC is fine now, but I still wouldnt until Vista. Mark my words, Vista will come out, AMD and Intel will roll out there new processors that make the new Core2 look like a P4. nvidia and ATI will hit the market hard with their first generation vga's that will make the SLi / crossfire cards look like Ti4600s. It may not be immediately, but at least by June your new, killer PC that you spent top dollar on now will be dinosaur by then. If you just saved your money, youd be riding much higher for alot longer for the same price youre going to spend now.

Of course, unless youre building a rig without concern for being top-end. If thats the case, then this whole post is bullshit.

Side note: Vista is going to be around a very very long time. This isnt MS's new XP that will be dated in 6 years. They rewrote every piece from the ground up. No more FAT32 (it can read it, but doesnt use it by default), no more dated Windows 3.1 kernels, directx thats been added onto for a decade, networking, the whole shi-bang.

It will look and feel similar, but the engine is completely different and (supposedly) much more efficent. PhysX cards are going to be the norm allowing your vga and processor to behave and coordinate in ways never seen.

This is all future-world until I see it with my own eyes, but reading what peeps who have beta-Vista, they are all really geeked (minus the driver problems, but that is NOT MS's fault).

[dougp]

I say February only because thats when Vista is supposed to come out. With that DX10 comes out.

The hardware is already in the works. nVidia and ATI have known all they ever needed to know for some time.

My point is, youre right. It will take a couple months for the first reliable DX10 enabled cards to hit market. But until then, to me, there is absolutely no point to buy a vga until they come out. I use a 6800 right now, and it smokes. Why would I pay $600 for a dual vga that wont be able take full advantage of dx10 in less than year?

So, we come back to, youre either rich or very impatient to waste money. Upgrading a PC is fine now, but I still wouldnt until Vista. Mark my words, Vista will come out, AMD and Intel will roll out there new processors that make the new Core2 look like a P4. nvidia and ATI will hit the market hard with their first generation vga's that will make the SLi / crossfire cards look like Ti4600s. It may not be immediately, but at least by June your new, killer PC that you spent top dollar on now will be dinosaur by then. If you just saved your money, youd be riding much higher for alot longer for the same price youre going to spend now.

Of course, unless youre building a rig without concern for being top-end. If thats the case, then this whole post is bullshit.

Side note: Vista is going to be around a very very long time. This isnt MS's new XP that will be dated in 6 years. They rewrote every piece from the ground up. No more FAT32 (it can read it, but doesnt use it by default), no more dated Windows 3.1 kernels, directx thats been added onto for a decade, networking, the whole shi-bang.

It will look and feel similar, but the engine is completely different and (supposedly) much more efficent. PhysX cards are going to be the norm allowing your vga and processor to behave and coordinate in ways never seen.

This is all future-world until I see it with my own eyes, but reading what peeps who have beta-Vista, they are all really geeked (minus the driver problems, but that is NOT MS's fault).
RC1 is very, very smooth. I installed it a few days ago, after a short stint with Beta 2 a few months ago, which sucked horribly.

I'll be playing with RC1 some more, but I gotta disable the Aero crap, seems to be causing some issues with D3D games like WoW, though I'm gonna test a few more things.

[TDMVPDPOY]

you say it best wwhen you say nothin all.......

[baseline bum]

I say February only because thats when Vista is supposed to come out. With that DX10 comes out.

The hardware is already in the works. nVidia and ATI have known all they ever needed to know for some time.

My point is, youre right. It will take a couple months for the first reliable DX10 enabled cards to hit market. But until then, to me, there is absolutely no point to buy a vga until they come out. I use a 6800 right now, and it smokes. Why would I pay $600 for a dual vga that wont be able take full advantage of dx10 in less than year?

So, we come back to, youre either rich or very impatient to waste money. Upgrading a PC is fine now, but I still wouldnt until Vista. Mark my words, Vista will come out, AMD and Intel will roll out there new processors that make the new Core2 look like a P4. nvidia and ATI will hit the market hard with their first generation vga's that will make the SLi / crossfire cards look like Ti4600s. It may not be immediately, but at least by June your new, killer PC that you spent top dollar on now will be dinosaur by then. If you just saved your money, youd be riding much higher for alot longer for the same price youre going to spend now.

Of course, unless youre building a rig without concern for being top-end. If thats the case, then this whole post is bullshit.

Side note: Vista is going to be around a very very long time. This isnt MS's new XP that will be dated in 6 years. They rewrote every piece from the ground up. No more FAT32 (it can read it, but doesnt use it by default), no more dated Windows 3.1 kernels, directx thats been added onto for a decade, networking, the whole shi-bang.

It will look and feel similar, but the engine is completely different and (supposedly) much more efficent. PhysX cards are going to be the norm allowing your vga and processor to behave and coordinate in ways never seen.

This is all future-world until I see it with my own eyes, but reading what peeps who have beta-Vista, they are all really geeked (minus the driver problems, but that is NOT MS's fault).


Intel's only plan for Vista's release is the Kentsfield, which is 2 core2 duos on one chip. That's not something I'm going to pay for, because no game is currently being written or planned for a 4 cpu system. That processor is going to be insanely expensive. AMD plans to go to a 65 nm process in December or January, but that's not going to make up the huge chasm in performance between the top of the line FX series and the far cheaper Core2 series. I've heard their new core won't come out until mid to late 2007.

Of course any system I build now will be smoked by a top of the line system in 9 months. You have to realize that any time you build a system.

It's because of DirectX10 that I'm considering only buying a single GeForce 7950x2, but I still want the board for qaud SLI so I can can easily upgrade it later. I don't want to wait 7-8 months minimum to have outstanding graphics performance.

Vista will absolutely not be around a long time. Their most ambitious plan for it, WinFS, was put on hold 2 more years for their next OS.

[cheguevara]

with the money u gonna spend, and if u just want it for games. Why don't u just buy a PS3 and a 50 inch HDTV?

[dougp]

with the money u gonna spend, and if u just want it for games. Why don't u just buy a PS3 and a 50 inch HDTV?
PC games > PS3 games ...

[baseline bum]

with the money u gonna spend, and if u just want it for games. Why don't u just buy a PS3 and a 50 inch HDTV?

It's tempting. I've seen a PS3 in action recently, and it's worth every cent. I definitely don't want it just for games though. I want it also for 3dsmax, development, video editing, audio editing, and of course piracy.

[leemajors]

PC games > PS3 games ...

agreed, not even a contest.

[DarkReign]

PC games > PS3 games ...

By a very long mile.

[DarkReign]

Intel's only plan for Vista's release is the Kentsfield, which is 2 core2 duos on one chip. That's not something I'm going to pay for, because no game is currently being written or planned for a 4 cpu system. That processor is going to be insanely expensive. AMD plans to go to a 65 nm process in December or January, but that's not going to make up the huge chasm in performance between the top of the line FX series and the far cheaper Core2 series. I've heard their new core won't come out until mid to late 2007.

Of course any system I build now will be smoked by a top of the line system in 9 months. You have to realize that any time you build a system.

I know that, but my point is with the new DX10 cards youre going to last alot longer with one than without. Not top-of-line obviously, but at some point, games are only going to be compatible with dx10 (like 9.0c now). Spending $600 now only to spend another $600 in a year seems frivilous to me.


It's because of DirectX10 that I'm considering only buying a single GeForce 7950x2, but I still want the board for qaud SLI so I can can easily upgrade it later. I don't want to wait 7-8 months minimum to have outstanding graphics performance.

Youve answered my question. Thank you. Waiting for new games has put a long streak of patience in my blood.


Vista will absolutely not be around a long time. Their most ambitious plan for it, WinFS, was put on hold 2 more years for their next OS.

This sentence blew me away. Could you please expand further?

[ShoogarBear]

The very first PC I ever bought , circa 1990, was 486-66 MHz (with a gigantic 100 MB hard drive) that some guy put together in his garage, because it was the only way to get the cutting edge stuff on a student budget.

Ever since that time I've bought corporate. Just out of curiosity, how would a custom box with the latest components go for these days?

[dougp]

WinFS, the new filesystem that will be replacing NTFS, has been put on hold and removed from the Vista product.

You can read into that however you want, personally I would say they're going to follow the NT phase set of keeping a standard per system, one for home based PCs (NTFS) and one for servers/workstations (WinFS.) Though I'm probably completely wrong, bb could probably tell ya more.

[dougp]

The very first PC I ever bought , circa 1990, was 486-66 MHz (with a gigantic 100 MB hard drive) that some guy put together in his garage, because it was the only way to get the cutting edge stuff on a student budget.

Ever since that time I've bought corporate. Just out of curiosity, how would a custom box with the latest components go for these days?
Latest and greatest?

Proc - $1k
Mobo - $250-300
Vid Card - $500-600 x2
RAM - $300
HD - $300-400 (Solid State Disk or SATA Raptors)

Throw in monitor, case, cooling, etc. ... you're looking at a lot of money for the "latest" components.

[ShoogarBear]

So, in the neighborhood of $3-3.5K, plus whatever profit margin.

Way expensive by current standards, but before the big drop in prices a few years ago, that had been pretty much the same going rate for a cutting edge box.

[TDMVPDPOY]

ur better of not buyin the latest, but what fitz ur budget then overclock the sob.

[dougp]

So, in the neighborhood of $3-3.5K, plus whatever profit margin.

Way expensive by current standards, but before the big drop in prices a few years ago, that had been pretty much the same going rate for a cutting edge box.I was bored ... You can sort through this.

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Qty.Product DescriptionUnit PriceSavingsTotal Price1 Logitech MX Revolution 931689-0403 Black 7 Buttons 2x Wheels USB RF Laser Mouse - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16826104015)
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Qty.Product DescriptionUnit PriceSavingsTotal Price1 ASUS P5N32-SLI Deluxe Socket T (LGA 775) NVIDIA nForce4 SLI Intel Edition ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131564)
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Qty.Product DescriptionUnit PriceSavingsTotal Price1 Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 Conroe 2.93GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557X6800 - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819115001)
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Item #: N82E16820146093

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[leemajors]

So, in the neighborhood of $3-3.5K, plus whatever profit margin.

Way expensive by current standards, but before the big drop in prices a few years ago, that had been pretty much the same going rate for a cutting edge box.

you can still build a pretty damn good system for under 1k. may not be cutting edge, but you can still do whatever on it.

[baseline bum]

WinFS was supposed to be a filesystem that's a relational database, and was supposed to revolutionize desktop computing. It was supposed to get rid of explicit directory structure (at least through Windows main interface), and make browsing for file based on keywords through constant-time searches. It was the heart of Longhorn, and with it removed, Vista seems like Windows XP with a 3D interface and maybe better security. Certainly not something that's going to be worth the $300-$400 they'll probably charge for it.

NTFS is freaking crap. The filesystem gets so fragmented, and therefore you lose 15% of any partition's capacity because of the need to constantly defrag it.

[nkdlunch]

So, in the neighborhood of $3-3.5K, plus whatever profit margin.

Way expensive by current standards, but before the big drop in prices a few years ago, that had been pretty much the same going rate for a cutting edge box.

yes. but this 4K pc would kick the living hell out of 99% of brand pcs.

its kinda like how guys brag about their cars, nerds brag out their pcs.

but I do admit 3d games on that beast would be incredible

[baseline bum]

I was bored ... You can sort through this.

CD/DVD Burners (RW Drives) (http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/SubCategory.asp?Subcategory=5)
Qty.Product DescriptionUnit PriceSavingsTotal Price1 NEC 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE/ATAPI Model ND-3550A - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16827152058)
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Qty.Product DescriptionUnit PriceSavingsTotal Price2 Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822136012)
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$229.99 $459.98 1 HITACHI Deskstar 7K500 HDS725050KLA360 (0A31619) 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822147007)
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Qty.Product DescriptionUnit PriceSavingsTotal Price1 SCEPTRE X20G-Naga III Black 20.1" 8ms Widescreen HD Ready LCD Monitor - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16824112176)
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Qty.Product DescriptionUnit PriceSavingsTotal Price2 XFX PVT71UZDF9 Geforce 7950GX2 1GB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Xtreme Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814150160)
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Qty.Product DescriptionUnit PriceSavingsTotal Price1 Creative SOUND BLASTER X-Fi Platinum 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16829102190)
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Qty.Product DescriptionUnit PriceSavingsTotal Price1 Logitech G15 2-Tone USB Wired Standard Keyboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16823126179)
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Intel-compatible Motherboards (http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/SubCategory.asp?Subcategory=280)
Qty.Product DescriptionUnit PriceSavingsTotal Price1 ASUS P5N32-SLI Deluxe Socket T (LGA 775) NVIDIA nForce4 SLI Intel Edition ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131564)
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Processors (http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/SubCategory.asp?Subcategory=343)
Qty.Product DescriptionUnit PriceSavingsTotal Price1 Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 Conroe 2.93GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557X6800 - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819115001)
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Model #: 991512
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That's not really a top of the line system. If you really want to go all out SCSI hard-drives and DDR2 800, as well as an nForce 590 board, and a Plextor DVDRW. Also, $270 will never get a gaming monitor if you want LCD. Cheap LCDs like that have horrible tearing issues, and aren't meant for gaming.

[leemajors]

WinFS was supposed to be a filesystem that's a relational database, and was supposed to revolutionize desktop computing. It was supposed to get rid of explicit directory structure (at least through Windows main interface), and make browsing for file based on keywords through constant-time searches. It was the heart of Longhorn, and with it removed, Vista seems like Windows XP with a 3D interface and maybe better security. Certainly not something that's going to be worth the $300-$400 they'll probably charge for it.

NTFS is freaking crap. The filesystem gets so fragmented, and therefore you lose 15% of any partition's capacity because of the need to constantly defrag it.

but it's got gadgets!

[Fillmoe]

you can still build a pretty damn good system for under 1k. may not be cutting edge, but you can still do whatever on it.


yup...... i just built a bangin ass system for around 800..... then i bought a 22 inch viewsonic lcd for 350... :king

[dougp]

That's not really a top of the line system. If you really want to go all out SCSI hard-drives and DDR2 800, as well as an nForce 590 board, and a Plextor DVDRW. Also, $270 will never get a gaming monitor if you want LCD. Cheap LCDs like that have horrible tearing issues, and aren't meant for gaming.
I don't know many people who would put a SCSI drive in a gaming rig now with the Raptors out, the performance difference is really not all too high, unless perhaps someone did the SCSI over serial. I was looking for a 590 system, but eh most were sold out so I went with HardOCPs recommendation.

Also, that monitor isn't that bad ... I've seen a few and saw no tearing.

[DarkReign]

Nothing beats 10000 rpm hard drives. Nothing. Yet.

Got me the 24" widescreed Dell montior. Now, if only every game supported 1920 x 1200 resolution, I would be all set *cough*warhammer 40k*cough*.

[baseline bum]

I shouldn't bag on MS too much for skipping on WinFS in Vista. I'd rather they wait to get it working properly than just have them hack together a half-ass copy ASAP to make launch.

Anyone know much about water-cooling? This is the first computer I'll build whose cost justifies it.

Also, Raptors are loud as hell, and noise will be a huge concern with this new system. What can be done to counteract this problem (I expect to prob stick a 150GB Raptor in for Windows, and a 74GB for Linux, w/ a 750GB Seagate SATA drive for data).

I'll prob hold off at least three weeks though, because I work for a game developer that has us doing 70 hour weeks to get a title out before the Christmas shopping season starts, and hence, I'll have no time to play with my new toy until we're back on a reasonable, 50 hour schedule after code submission in a couple of weeks (assuming it passes Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo 1st party reqs, knock on wood).