What should we do?

[johnsmith]

Alright, I've been reading this political part of the website for a while now, thrown in my two cents, made fun of people, been made fun of but now I want to know, what should America's foreign policy consist of from here on out? Not what should we have done, but rather what should we do from here? How do we stop terrorism? How do we win the hearts and minds of the world? How do we become the good guys again? How do we fix our economy etc? What's done is done, now what?
I would also like to ask that no articles be copied and pasted into this thread, I want opinions of your own, not someone elses. I would also like to ask RG to wait for a few opinions before posting his own, I ask this because people like Boutons will just use someone smarter then himself and their opinions to form his own "opinion" and that is usually whatever Randomguy says (I mean this as a compliment to RG by the way).
So let's hear it. Everyone that is always so open to publicly criticize, I want to know the solution.

[JoeChalupa]

The fight against terrorism must continue.
Strengthen our borders both NORTH and South and on the Coasts.
Use our intelligence agencies to their full potentional to stop and deter future tettorist threats.
Go after the terrorists where they are...not where we want them to be. Be consistent with our policy against terrorism and place strict repercussions for ALL countries that harbor terrorism.
Keep diplomatic lines open, if at all possible, with all foreign leaders.
Will diplomacy always work? NO, but it must the first step unless we are directly attacked.
Give our intelligence agencies what they need to get the job done without giving up our civil liberties. A thin line sometimes but it must be worked out.
Have a plan for Iraq so that we know where we are headed even if it turns out not to be the correct path.
Tell the truth.

[SA210]

What should we do?
Start the impeachment process.

[samikeyp]

Fight dirty.

The people who do this kind of act do not play within the rules of civilized behavior. Why should we?

[Hook Dem]

There are a lot of people who post in here that have opinions on where we have gone wrong but how about some solutions. We all know that all of the criticism has been for political posturing, but solutions are rarely offered. I really question whether anyone cares what the solutions are so long as their political ambitions are satisfied. Politics really never change. The solution is always where the other party went wrong. WE should be in charge. Unfortunately, history will prove that both parties are not without their faults. Solution?..........elect NBA Dan as President and Boutons as Vice President. Then it will be our turn to bitch!

[ChumpDumper]

We should start a thread about how unoriginal johnsmith is.

[Mr Dio]

We should start a thread about how unoriginal johnsmith is.


FAGGOT JaneSmith is a MORON.

[johnsmith]

We should start a thread about how unoriginal johnsmith is.

Typical answer from someone who has no solution.

[johnsmith]

FAGGOT JaneSmith is a MORON.

This guy is perhaps the dumbest motherfucker on this website.

[johnsmith]

We should start a thread about how unoriginal johnsmith is.

Although clever........like I said, "been made fun of".......

[Mr Dio]

FAGGOT JaneSmith has an answer?
What is the answer oh great Sucker of Cocks???

[ChumpDumper]

Typical answer from someone who has no solution.Where's yours? Are you waiting for the sports radio guy to blog one?

[johnsmith]

Where's yours? Are you waiting for the sports radio guy to blog one?

I don't have an answer, that's why I asked the question.

[Mr Dio]

Where's yours? Are you waiting for the sports radio guy to blog one?


Exactly, FAGGOT JaneSmith has no common sense.
Where is her answer or ideas? Didn't she start this thread?

[johnsmith]

Where's yours? Are you waiting for the sports radio guy to blog one?

Also, didn't mean to come back at you like that either. I was getting all pissed off from Mr. Dio. He accomplished with me what I set out to do damn near every day on this site. Get someone angry.

[ChumpDumper]

The thing is our choices are now severly limited by our choices made in the past. As far as conventional military action goes, we are completely hamstrung by the occupation of Iraq and that won't change until we find a face saving way of getting out -- whether Iraqi forces are ready to take over or not.

As far as rehabbing our image, the detainees have to be adressed as they are a festering sore that, fairly or not, is being used as a barometer for the US views and attitudes towards Muslims everywhere. It's very important to get a real legal process going with these detainees and I fail to see why the administration can't work with congress and the Supreme Court more closely to avoid stupid delays.

[JoeChalupa]

^rack 'im!

[j-6]

Capture Osama bin Laden, for starters. Double or triple our resources in that search - I don't care. It'll still be cheaper than trying to repair both the US economy and whatever AQ blows up the next time they attack. It'll also show the world that the US is serious about finding this asshole rather than Afghanistan looking like an underfunded, understaffed sideshow of the Iraqi conflict.

The next part is up to us. We need to elect a candidate that has some international credibility (you did say foreign policy) to remove the stigma we've recieved as of late, and still have a hard line with terrorism. At least on this topic, if Giuliani could get elected, that would be great. But will the religious folks in the GOP be OK with a pro-choice, pro-gay adulterer that's determined to kick terrorist ass?

[Yonivore]

There have been no terrorists attacks on U. S. Soil in 5 years.

The despotic regime of Saddam Hussein, and all the attendant problems that came with over a dozen years of post cease fire tension, was brought to an appropriate end.

The oppressive government of the Taliban was brought to an end, uprooting and causing al Qaeda to scamper like roaches.

What's left of Al Qaeda's upper management team is on the run or in hiding -- or, possibly dead. Just when is Osama bin Laden gonna make another video??

Thousands, possibly tens of thousands, of terrorists have been killed or captured.

Dozens of terrorist plots have been thwarted due to the vigilance of our National Security Agency and the effectiveness of their intelligence gathering techniques in spite of media efforts to ruin them.

I don't remember the percentage but a poll, released this morning, show that a ridiculously high percentage of Americans have the luxury of saying September 11, 2001 did not change their life at all.

And, all this has been accomplished in the face of an enemy that wants us all dead and a opposition political party that has done its damnedest to undermine the President's foreign policy prerogatives and conduct of our response to global terrorism...without offering what they would have done differently.

I'd say, stay the course and keep doing what we're doing.

[RandomGuy]

Also, didn't mean to come back at you like that either. I was getting all pissed off from Mr. Dio. He accomplished with me what I set out to do damn near every day on this site. Get someone angry.

Har, do a "find all posts" search by that guy.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much...

He has some strange obsession with homosexuality. :lol

Still holding back my solution. Get to that tonight.

[samikeyp]

Capture Osama bin Laden, for starters. Double or triple our resources in that search - I don't care. It'll still be cheaper than trying to repair both the US economy and whatever AQ blows up the next time they attack. It'll also show the world that the US is serious about finding this asshole rather than Afghanistan looking like an underfunded, understaffed sideshow of the Iraqi conflict

Well said...and don't be polite about it. If he is in your country, we are coming in to get him whether you like it or not.

[ChumpDumper]

Well said...and don't be polite about it. If he is in your country, we are coming in to get him whether you like it or not.Seeing as he's probably in Pakistan, that could be a problem. Our polictal ally there is a military dictator whose regime could be in danger if we invaded at this time -- perhaps if we hadn't gotten sidetracked by another military dictator who used to be our boy in the mideast....We might not like the outcome of a popular uprising in Pakistan.

[DarkReign]

What should we do?

Grab a Labatt Blue, fire one up, sit back, relax and watch this whole world go to hell in a hand basket. With any luck it will all happen soon.

I say, re-elect Bush for a 3rd term and elect Republicans for both Houses. Hopefully, Bush will have his usual stranglehold over his own party (of mostly good people) and continue to abuse the hell out of said power.

With any luck, he'll institute a draft, pick a fight and send us all to oblivion. Could you imagine....I mean really imagine looking out your front window at night and seeing the flashes of war on American soil.

I am not advocating such a prospect, but I have given up on logic and reason....seems everyone else has as well. I am sick and tired of waiting for these politicians to do anything. I say take it all back. Democrap or Repuglican. Take it back. Take it back.

I mean barring Ford, I never thought we would elect a President with such an inability to publicly speek, make off-the-cuff coherent sentences, not mispronounce basic words of the English language and so on. Basically, I never thought I would see the day when a guy with a 6th grade education and mentality was elected President of the United States. Its almost as bad as Marion Barry being reelected as mayor of DC.

Big. Dumb. Americans.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, we didn't elect Ford, so barring isn't needed.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Alright, I've been reading this political part of the website for a while now, thrown in my two cents, made fun of people, been made fun of but now I want to know, what should America's foreign policy consist of from here on out? Not what should we have done, but rather what should we do from here? How do we stop terrorism? How do we win the hearts and minds of the world? How do we become the good guys again? How do we fix our economy etc? What's done is done, now what?
I would also like to ask that no articles be copied and pasted into this thread, I want opinions of your own, not someone elses. I would also like to ask RG to wait for a few opinions before posting his own, I ask this because people like Boutons will just use someone smarter then himself and their opinions to form his own "opinion" and that is usually whatever Randomguy says (I mean this as a compliment to RG by the way).
So let's hear it. Everyone that is always so open to publicly criticize, I want to know the solution.

you should volunteer to go to Iraq

[johnsmith]

you should volunteer to go to Iraq

Why?

[MannyIsGod]

There have been no terrorists attacks on U. S. Soil in 5 years.

The despotic regime of Saddam Hussein, and all the attendant problems that came with over a dozen years of post cease fire tension, was brought to an appropriate end.

The oppressive government of the Taliban was brought to an end, uprooting and causing al Qaeda to scamper like roaches.

What's left of Al Qaeda's upper management team is on the run or in hiding -- or, possibly dead. Just when is Osama bin Laden gonna make another video??

Thousands, possibly tens of thousands, of terrorists have been killed or captured.

Dozens of terrorist plots have been thwarted due to the vigilance of our National Security Agency and the effectiveness of their intelligence gathering techniques in spite of media efforts to ruin them.

I don't remember the percentage but a poll, released this morning, show that a ridiculously high percentage of Americans have the luxury of saying September 11, 2001 did not change their life at all.

And, all this has been accomplished in the face of an enemy that wants us all dead and a opposition political party that has done its damnedest to undermine the President's foreign policy prerogatives and conduct of our response to global terrorism...without offering what they would have done differently.

I'd say, stay the course and keep doing what we're doing.
If I call a pest control expert over to my house to exterminate the roaches, I don't really care if he's fixed my leaky sink, killed half the roaches in the place, and pointed out that I haven't seen a roach in a few minutes. He sure as hell hasn't done the job we needed him to do.

I'm pretty tired of hearing that we haven't had an attack since 9/11. How long had it been since we experienced an attack of that magnitude before on American Soil? Longer than 5 years, thats for sure.

The point is that no one is arguing that this country is completely safe at this time and continously pointing out that we havne't had an attack in 5 years is pretty damn irrelevant and misleading. How many people thought our terrorism security needed work on 9/10?

The important questions to ask are did something happen yesterday, but CAN something happen TOMORROW. And is there anyone here that can look me in the eye and tell me it can't?

We have a short memory. It is very clear to me that we've forgotten many of the lessons we learned right after 9/11. Our leaders are back to their ways of playing games in DC instead of getting things done. On one side you have people like Yonivore who feel that this administration has done well when it is very obvious to most that it has done very poorly. I'm fairly confident that we won't be seeing any new heads on Mt. Rushmore contrary to foolish predictions. And then you have the SA210's who are more interested in granting amnesty and impeaching Bush than realistly moving forward and fixing the damn problems.

You see the best in the people of this country after tradegys. I saw them after Katrina, and I saw them after 9/11. But people have short memories, and both have faded already. Its going to take many more tradegys before the people here learn their lessons for good.

[samikeyp]

Seeing as he's probably in Pakistan, that could be a problem. Our polictal ally there is a military dictator whose regime could be in danger if we invaded at this time -- perhaps if we hadn't gotten sidetracked by another military dictator who used to be our boy in the mideast....We might not like the outcome of a popular uprising in Pakistan.

I see your point but someone there has tipped off OBL before. Personally, I don't care what has to be done...just get it done. Maybe that is unrealistic or cruel or biased of me but this guy planned out a vicious attack on American soil. We are the most powerful nation in the world...I say we show it.

[ChumpDumper]

I see your point but someone there has tipped off OBL before.The best we can hope for is that greed for the reward will cause someone to give us the coordinates for a cruise missle strike.
Personally, I don't care what has to be done...just get it done. Maybe that is unrealistic or cruel or biased of me but this guy planned out a vicious attack on American soil. We are the most powerful nation in the world...I say we show it.We did....in Iraq....

[johnsmith]

The best we can hope for is that greed for the reward will cause someone to give us the coordinates for a cruise missle strike.

I can't resist, didn't Clinton have these coordinates once?

[samikeyp]

We did....in Iraq....

I don't think we have done enough to find OBL. Just my .02

[ChumpDumper]

I completely agree, but any chance for overt military action in Pakistan to finish off AQ was squandered when we invaded Iraq for more dubious reasons.

[samikeyp]

I agree Chump.

[ChumpDumper]

I can't resist, didn't Clinton have these coordinates once?Didn't you want to quit playing the blame game and concentrate on what to do now?

Let me know what the sports radio guy's answer is.

[johnsmith]

Didn't you want to quit playing the blame game and concentrate on what to do now?

Let me know what the sports radio guy's answer is.


You seem to have a real problem with me there little fella, how come? I know you are obviously extremely witty and intelligent what with a name like "chumpdumper" but I just don't see what your problem is. You said that the best we could do was hope for a cruise missle attack and I threw a jab out there. Are you the only one allowed to do this because if you are, let me know and I'll never say anything to you again.

[johnsmith]

Didn't you want to quit playing the blame game and concentrate on what to do now?

Let me know what the sports radio guy's answer is.

Furthermore, what's wrong with quoting a sports radio guy? This is a website dedicated to the Spurs ya jackass. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Hey, I'll point out hypocrisy when I see it. If you have a problem with that, don't be a hypocrite.

[ChumpDumper]

Furthermore, what's wrong with quoting a sports radio guy?For someone who created a thread to complain about a poster's quoting other sources, it's riotously entertaining.

[johnsmith]

Hey, I'll point out hypocrisy when I see it. If you have a problem with that, don't be a hypocrite.

Fine, but I can't sit back and let stupid things be said by you and not point it out, even if it does make me a hypocrite.
So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, you'll keep being an idiot, and I'll keep pointing it out. :lol :lol

[johnsmith]

For someone who created a thread to complain about a poster's quoting other sources, it's riotously entertaining.

I complained about a poster ONLY QUOTING OTHER SOURCES and never having a thought of his/her own. Come on Chumpdumper, you're better then that.

[ChumpDumper]

Fine, but I can't sit back and let stupid things be said by you and not point it out, even if it does make me a hypocrite.lI have no problem with that, hypocrite.

[johnsmith]

I have no problem with that, hypocrite.

Then we are through, jackass.

[ChumpDumper]

I complained about a poster ONLY QUOTING OTHER SOURCES and never having a thought of his/her own. Come on Chumpdumper, you're better then that.That's pretty much what you have done along with asking other people their opinions and offerring none of your own. What's the difference?

[ChumpDumper]

Then we are through, jackass.I seriously doubt that.

[johnsmith]

That's pretty much what you have done along with asking other people their opinions and offerring none of your own. What's the difference?

I've come up with my own opinions, and I've tried to promote healthy conversation and debate through the questions I've posted so that I can hear other people's opinions on certain subjects. I've posted two articles from Steve Czaban and thought of some other questions on my own. The difference being that people like Croutons just spew out long drawn out articles from un-reputable sources and pretend they are facts while not listening to anyone elses opinions. I've had my personal opinions on certain subjects changed just by reading others thoughts and arguments on this very website, something that I seriously doubt Croutons can say because he doesn't care what others write, just what he posts.

[ChumpDumper]

Calling him Croutons is unoriginal.

[johnsmith]

I seriously doubt that.

Ok, I've replied with dignity and no cheap shots, now can we be through? But seriously, you had to know someone was going to go and run with the cruise missle and Clinton thing, I just beat them to it.

[johnsmith]

Calling him Croutons is unoriginal.

That's true, and I never cited my source because frankly, i don't remember who the source was.

[johnsmith]

Calling him Croutons is unoriginal.

Are you and BOUTONS in love? I mean, do you like like him, like as in more then friends? :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Ok, I've replied with dignity and no cheap shots
So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, you'll keep being an idiot, and I'll keep pointing it out.
Then we are through, jackass.

[ChumpDumper]

Are you and BOUTONS in love? I mean, do you like like him, like as in more then friends? :lolI don't know him at all outside the board, but you miss the point -- the joke was about your continued hypocrisy.

[johnsmith]

I don't know him at all outside the board, but you miss the point -- the joke was about your continued hypocrisy.

No, I got the joke, you missed mine, it was about you being a jackass. You and Boutons are the same person aren't you? That would explain your undying love because you are the same person. Alright boutondumper, that is enough.

[ChumpDumper]

No, I got the joke, you missed mine, it was about you being a jackass.That's more of an indisputable truth than a joke.
You and Boutons are the same person aren't you?Nah, he's much more strident than I.
Alright boutondumper, that is enough.Feh, you were the one that said we were done before right? Why should anyone believe anything you say when all you do is contradict it in the very next post?

[johnsmith]

That's more of an indisputable truth than a joke.Nah, he's much more strident than I.Feh, you were the one that said we were done before right? Why should anyone believe anything you say when all you do is contradict it in the very next post?

And why would anyone believe what you say when you clearly post on this site through the use of two different usernames.

[Ocotillo]

More back and forth than Wimbeldon.

[ChumpDumper]

And why would anyone believe what you say when you clearly post on this site through the use of two different usernames.I'm not boutons or boutons_. That's easily proved.

[johnsmith]

I'm not boutons or boutons_. That's easily proved.

Why must you turn this into a thread of lies?

[ChumpDumper]

You can ask anyone who has been here longer than March 2006.

[johnsmith]

I see that Snake01 criticized you for opening your threads with yet another article Chumpdumper, he attacked your boutons personality and you closed it down with your chumpdumper personality, well played my friend, well played.

[johnsmith]

You can ask anyone who has been here longer than March 2006.

Why would that prove anything? I'm on to your games you cunning devil.

[ChumpDumper]

I see that Snake01 criticized you for opening your threads with yet another article Chumpdumper, he attacked your boutons personality and you closed it down with your chumpdumper personality, well played my friend, well played.You don't see the threads Mr. Dio started attacking you personally in two forums, do you?

You're welcome.

[johnsmith]

You don't see the threads Mr. Dio started attacking you personally in two forums, do you?

You're welcome.

I'll be the first to admit, Mr. Dio made me to look a fool. He attacked my beloved Broncos and then he followed it up by attacking me and ignoring my arguments. It was fantastic the way he got me all fired up, I was very proud of Mr. Dio and I have a lot to learn from someone of his skill. I didn't mind that being on display, he was the better man this morning. Hook, line, and sinker he got me.
You on the other hand just randomly decided to mock my Steve Czaban post because I was always making fun of the way your Boutons personality posted articles and passed them on as facts, my articles were strictly opinion pieces that I thought were entertaining and made one think a little.

[j-6]

:lol at Chump = boutons

[sickdsm]

I'll be the first to say CD is an ass but it still don't hide the fact that your getting pwned here by him johnsmith.............

[johnsmith]

I'll be the first to say CD is an ass but it still don't hide the fact that your getting pwned here by him johnsmith.............

How am I being owned by him? Because he called me a hypocrite? Oh man, that does sound like I'm being owned.

[ChumpDumper]

I'll be the first to say CD is an ass.I think you were like #20 or 21, but that still puts you somewhere in the top 5% or so.

[johnsmith]

I think you were like #20 or 21, but that still puts you somewhere in the top 5% or so.

ChumpDumper, is what this other jackass is saying true? Do people other then myself dislike you on this website?

[ChumpDumper]

Dozens. If we're going strictly by screen names, it's easily in the hundreds.

[johnsmith]

Dozens.

Then you're ok in my book.
Have a nice evening everyone.

[johnsmith]

I'll be the first to say CD is an ass but it still don't hide the fact that your getting pwned here by him johnsmith.............

This guys a real douche bag though.

For real now, have a nice evening.

[smeagol]

What should we do?

Grab a Labatt Blue, fire one up, sit back, relax and watch this whole world go to hell in a hand basket. With any luck it will all happen soon.

I say, re-elect Bush for a 3rd term and elect Republicans for both Houses. Hopefully, Bush will have his usual stranglehold over his own party (of mostly good people) and continue to abuse the hell out of said power.

With any luck, he'll institute a draft, pick a fight and send us all to oblivion. Could you imagine....I mean really imagine looking out your front window at night and seeing the flashes of war on American soil.

I am not advocating such a prospect, but I have given up on logic and reason....seems everyone else has as well. I am sick and tired of waiting for these politicians to do anything. I say take it all back. Democrap or Repuglican. Take it back. Take it back.

I mean barring Ford, I never thought we would elect a President with such an inability to publicly speek, make off-the-cuff coherent sentences, not mispronounce basic words of the English language and so on. Basically, I never thought I would see the day when a guy with a 6th grade education and mentality was elected President of the United States. Its almost as bad as Marion Barry being reelected as mayor of DC.

Big. Dumb. Americans.
George Carlin, is that you?

[RandomGuy]

I will have to wait until I finish my homework before weighing in on this one.

In a nutshell:

It involves spending a lot of money, and a fundamental reshaping of our nation's military.

There is of course more to it, but grandma and grampa are here, so I need to go.

[sickdsm]

Say the hell w/Israel and kissing their ass's.................

[Duff McCartney]

The people who do this kind of act do not play within the rules of civilized behavior. Why should we?

Because we're above them aren't we? Maybe not.

[samikeyp]

Because we're above them aren't we? Maybe not.

Above the people who planned and executed this attack? Absolutely.

My point was that the people who attacked 9/11 were inhuman as were the people who planned this and deserve to be treated as such.

If you are trying to infer I meant all Arabs or Muslims....I was not and nowhere did I say that.

[Duff McCartney]

Above the people who planned and executed this attack? Absolutely.

My point was that the people who attacked 9/11 were animals as were the people who planned this.

I'm not gonna argue with that....I agree with you. But us using the same barbaric tactics that they use doesn't at all make us above them.

[samikeyp]

I get what you are saying but honestly, if it means bringing Bin Laden and his cronies to justice....I really don't care about being better than them and would be willing to get dirty doing it. Probably a good thing I am not in charge. :)

[Duff McCartney]

I get what you are saying but honestly, if it means bringing Bin Laden and his cronies to justice....I really don't care about being better than them and would be willing to get dirty doing it. Probably a good thing I am not in charge. :)

You know it's not always about where you end up, it's the path you take that's also important.

Honestly, if catching Osama Bin Laden means we have to bomb 100 innocent civilians is it worth it? Not saying we do that but just a hypothetical question...where do you draw the line?

[bendmz]

well let me cranck up Jimi Hendricks up and have at it.......
first thing i would do is seperate the the military, the administration, the ACLU and all the non-profit organiszations who throw their influence around...... 1) let the military fight the damn war ! from start to finish, keep the damn politicians out the damn way. if you want to complain then pick up a piece and stand a post otherwise STFU...... the enemy kills a troop of mine, then i kill the same number of theirs..... this reduces the number in the holding pens.....2) keep all the religiuos fuckers tending their own flocks. man has been killing man since the begining of time and example of this is all in the books of faith you may want to read. don't let some little short fat fool make you believe otherwise..... edify the people of your house........3) as for the adminstration, i just got two words for you........ TERM LIMITS !!!!!! this is how you eliminate the career politician who does nothing but collect a paycheck. but you would also help prevent them from gaining so much weight... look at Ted Kennedy..... if that fucker didn't spend all his life in office, maybe he wouldn't be the oversized fat fucker that he is.......of course all the above could happen, but as long as the lifer politician is around...... forget it.......

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Here's a very interesting 4 Corners story on 9/11 - take 15 minutes out of your life and read the whole transcript, seriously. Jackson gets a little rabid at one point, but otherwise it's pretty balanced, and what Richard Clarke has to say is fascinating:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2006/s1738419.htm


I've also got a few suggestions of my own.

On one hand, stop waging war on countries like Iraq without justification (there were no WMDs, there was no link to 9/11), then on the other hand ignoring real humanitarian tragedies like Mugabe in Zimbabwe or the genocide in Sudan.

Stop sending people you SUSPECT of terrorist involvement (as yet unproven), like that poor Canadian professor, to "friendly" regimes for torture.

Stop pretending that things like "waterboarding" aren't torture.

Dismantle Guantanamo Bay and actually follow the precepts of your own legal system by trying the people you accuse of terroism.

Stop manipulating the World Bank to make even more money for you and your allies at the expense of the world's poor.

Stop tying your aid to the world to ideological furphies (like the sex education money that is only given to programs that promote abstinence, and where any mention of condoms is forbidden).

Stop using your massive market and political power to rape the third world, and start trading fairly.

In short, stop being massive freakin' hypocrites!!! Your government talks about the rule of law then ignores its own, talks about free trade then uses subsidies and other trade barriers to protect the US economy, talks about peace and democracy but kills more people than any other government on the planet.

Or you could roll out the neutron bombs and pave the Middle East. On second thoughts, that's far more likely...

(edited to add an "e" to hypocrite")

[samikeyp]

You know it's not always about where you end up, it's the path you take that's also important.

Honestly, if catching Osama Bin Laden means we have to bomb 100 innocent civilians is it worth it? Not saying we do that but just a hypothetical question...where do you draw the line?

normally I would agree....to me though, 100 is less than 3000. again....just my personal feelings...not a suggested course of action.

[samikeyp]

On one hand, stop waging war on countries like Iraq without justification (there were no WMDs, there was no link to 9/11), then on the other hand ignoring real humanitarian tragedies like Mugabe in Zimbabwe or the genocide in Sudan.

I would agree with that....I would rather see our resources going to people like this. In actuality, I would rather see our resources go to fixing our own problems first.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I would agree with that....I would rather see our resources going to people like this. In actuality, I would rather see our resources go to fixing our own problems first.

Absolutely.

How much has the US spent on this bullshiiit war? $600bil? More? Imagine what that could have done to your health and education systems, or to development of alternative fuels or renewable energy, or 100 other things...

Instead, it's gone into killing 150,000 people, producing a "new democratic state" so unstable that it is a breeding ground for the next wave of terrorists, and lining the pockets of the defence infrastructure companies. Well done indeed!

[bendmz]

yep, that's the beauty of this country...... opinions are like assholes, everyone has one......we allow people to express their opinions without fear of reprisial. we allow people to persue whatever dream they may have with support from the goverment, hell you can pretty much do what you damn well please without much hassel. in this "COUNTRY".... now you talk of being the world police... sure why not. we'll be the big boy on the block.. but that carries it's rewards as well as it's consiquences... are you prepared to do it ? how bout the Africans, or the South Americans, better yet why not the Australians........
"WMD" why do people always bring this up...... i start shooting your ass with a BB gun and you send your big brother after me, you think i will still have my BB gun here when your big brother gets here? what a dumbass you must be......talk all the recteric you want post all the articles you wish, unless you have had to defend your country or take that stand knowing you may have to give your life.... then stand tall and believe you can change the world or support your country's beliefs.......
SEMPER FI, SEMPER FI, SEMPER FI.........

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Well, I am Australian, not American, and we are involved in your sham wars, buddy boy. I am appalled that our PM has his tongue so far up GW's arse that we've wasted $8bil on your most recent military adventures, and then given you an extremely loaded free-trade agreement to boot. Hell, we aren't even cleaning up on the oil or the rebuilding contracts, so why exactly are we involved again? Why do we continue to bend over for America when even your neighbours, the Canadians, won't? I have no idea.

BTW, who are these "Africans" and "South Americans" you speak of? Oh, you mean the hundreds of diverse cultural, social and political systems that inhabit those continents! Nah, let's just pretend they are all the same

As for the rest of your post, what jingoistic claptrap. You fail to address even one of the points I make. And then you fall back on your military's slogan "semper fi". My, what an intellect you have! :rolleyes

Why do people mention WMDs? Because they were trotted out time and again by your govt., and the Brits, and my own govt., as the main reason for invading Iraq, and guess what, IT WAS ALL A LIE. There were no WMDs, and Iraq did not pose an "imminent threat" to the US or anyone else, another LIE from the vaunted "leader of the free world."

Okay, I'll just pick two points, maybe you can set me straight...
Please explain to me why you aren't trying the terrorists as is required by your hallowed legal system?
Please explain to me why your govt subsidises your farmers more than any other organisation on the planet ($24bil last year) while spewing free-trade rhetoric and punishing anyone else in the world who does what you do?

Two points that should be very easy to clear up if I am incorrect... but you see, I'm not. The world sees America as a massive hypocrite, and until you start doing what you say, rather than saying one thing and doing the complete opposite, that view won't change.

Oh, and I should point out that I am actually a FRIEND of America. A lot of wonderful people there, and what your nation has achieved in terms of progress is quite remarkable. Just realise that when your friends are pointing these things out, there can be little surprise at why the hatred of your enemies continues to build...

[NASCARdad]

We must stay the course until the job is done and we must, at all costs, keep the White House, the Senate and the House in Republican hands!!!

[bendmz]

ah, a "FRIEND" from the land down under......had to cut it off early last nite so here we go. i take it when you refer to "WE" you must be talking bout y'all down there and not include us up here.... i can not answer your questions as to why you folks do the things you do, nor will i pretend to want to try. you see when i vote for my leaders in this country i do it with a conviction that they are the people i want running my country's business. be it right in other people's eyes or not.... we as a country do not have to meet your expectations, better yey we meet our own..... you so willingly give all this feedback about how screwed up we are and how we don't do this and don't do that but fail to accept any responsibility for the action of the world and how they( other goverments) respond to actions that counter one's own belief.... how quick you point the finger..... what a shame, what a shame.....
but since you are the world's spoke person, how would you suggest we venture off into the wild blue yonder? perhaps just say the hell with everyone else and just conquer their ass and make it a state...... hey, now there's a thought, ever play the game RISK?
hey if you want to solve the world's problems and assign blame be my guess.... join the politicians of the world where all is wrong and everyone is to blame and no one has the answers... why is that?????
we don't claim to be perfect nor are our laws, but they must be better than yours.... we live in a time where one does not know who the enemy is, it could be you it could be the preacher man down the street, who do you trust...... our laws are meant to be argued, thus we have courts, and so on and so on........Terrorist, now that's a new one on us... we're working on that one and you should hear the commontion....
WMDs, now this will be the last time i comment on this issue... does the word"KURDS" mean anything to you??????
look "BUDDY BOY", you don't like how my country is behaving, that's cool, i'm not going to lose any sleep over it, better yet just stay away.....the leader of my country is a person i helped put in office and i support his actions !!!!! sadly we do have idiots in office as well, i'm working on getting them the hell out....
so you see, i trust all is well in your house and thus the reason you attack mine.... oh please, please show me the way......

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Your incredibly defensive and nonsensical posts once again fail to address anything I've said.

Here is the OP for this thread, that is, what my first post was responding to:

"Alright, I've been reading this political part of the website for a while now, thrown in my two cents, made fun of people, been made fun of but now I want to know, what should America's foreign policy consist of from here on out? Not what should we have done, but rather what should we do from here? How do we stop terrorism? How do we win the hearts and minds of the world? How do we become the good guys again?How do we fix our economy etc? What's done is done, now what?
I would also like to ask that no articles be copied and pasted into this thread, I want opinions of your own, not someone elses. I would also like to ask RG to wait for a few opinions before posting his own, I ask this because people like Boutons will just use someone smarter then himself and their opinions to form his own "opinion" and that is usually whatever Randomguy says (I mean this as a compliment to RG by the way).
So let's hear it. Everyone that is always so open to publicly criticize, I want to know the solution."

So, my solution - start behving the way your government claims it behaves rather than bullying and manipulating the world to America's advantage while claimimg to be the good guy. Stop being hypocrites. Or, stop pretending you are the good guys and just be the acknowledged bad guys - at least then your govt wouldn't be hypocritical.

This is not a blame game, this is a legitimate response to the question "what can America do to win the hearts and minds of the world?" Leadership means doing what you say, and over the last 6 years America has been particularly poor at that - no trial for the terrorists, no free trade for the world, no WMDs in Iraq, no response to the world's other tyrannical regimes...

You still haven't bothered to address even one of my points, or if you did, I couldn't understand your logic through the babble. Anyone else have a go?

[DarkReign]

How do we stop terrorism?

Short answer. You dont. Its impossible. War on Drugs = War on Terrorism. Hows the former working out in comparison to the latter?

Its all relative, really. We can pursue this course of action or another...it doesnt change the fact that this world is full of evil people who are set in their minds that Western culture must be destoyed (ie America).

With that in mind, knowing there is no quarter, no solution, no alternative, you go down the path MOST traveled....war. Do I agree? Eh, I say, does my opinion matter? It obviously doesnt.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel. There is no end to the War on Terror. It will never end. Youre fighting an idea, not a country or outfit. Everyone makes such a big deal about Al Qaeda, maybe rightfully so. But then those same people are going to be in celebration when that bastard Bin Laden is captured/killed full well knowing that there is a multitude of people to take his place.

Lets go out on a extreme limb here and say one day all of Al Qaeda will neutralized. Welcome to the forefront different-name-terrorist-organization. It never ends. Those people hate us with the true meaning of the word.

There isnt a solution. There never will be. Unless of course you think turning the Middle East into glass is a solution. Even then there will be another corner of the world that despises us and wants what we have or wants to detroy what we stand for.

All in all, my point is, we are in this for the long haul. More exactly, forever. Your country(s) either will or will not help. Me personally, I say if you dont help, then when you are inevitably attacked, dont expect any help from us. America has the luxury of being able to wage an endless war (not by current standards of course), most do not.

Notice I never mentioned Iraq. Iraq is a fucking mistake. Such a big mistake that we no longer can do anything about it. We have to stay, probably for years to come and beyond. Not to save face or "win hearts and minds" (what complete bullshit, btw), but to save the civilians who never asked us to come in the first place. If we pull out now, better get used to seeing genocide on a Darfur scale everyday on CNN/Fox. Iran will control western Iraq which means they will hold sway on world oil. The ramifications for leaving would be FAR worse than staying. So, we stay.

I dont hope or pray for anything. The machinations of a power hungry politician no longer scare me or surprise. After the past 6 years, Im not inclined to believe anyone or anything. Its all agenda and favors. If you arent in the loop, then youre just a drone, spouting whatever party-line youre beholden to. Ive always thought myself a true independant thinker. Posting here and listening to the ravings of both sides, combined with the state of the globe and the people within, I personally see no hope at all. Maybe thats just a biased, Big Dumb American opinion, but it is what it is. I dont think the USA will lose, I think the whole world will. What that means, I am not sure. But a world without America is worse than one with, that is a fact no one with half-a-fucking brain can deny.

[RandomGuy]

Arrrgh. I wish I had the time to address this one. I share DarkReign's sense of frustration, if not his pessimism.

This is a very worthwhile question to ask tho'.

[101A]

Short answer. You dont. Its impossible. War on Drugs = War on Terrorism. Hows the former working out in comparison to the latter?

Its all relative, really. We can pursue this course of action or another...it doesnt change the fact that this world is full of evil people who are set in their minds that Western culture must be destoyed (ie America).

With that in mind, knowing there is no quarter, no solution, no alternative, you go down the path MOST traveled....war. Do I agree? Eh, I say, does my opinion matter? It obviously doesnt.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel. There is no end to the War on Terror. It will never end. Youre fighting an idea, not a country or outfit. Everyone makes such a big deal about Al Qaeda, maybe rightfully so. But then those same people are going to be in celebration when that bastard Bin Laden is captured/killed full well knowing that there is a multitude of people to take his place.

Lets go out on a extreme limb here and say one day all of Al Qaeda will neutralized. Welcome to the forefront different-name-terrorist-organization. It never ends. Those people hate us with the true meaning of the word.

There isnt a solution. There never will be. Unless of course you think turning the Middle East into glass is a solution. Even then there will be another corner of the world that despises us and wants what we have or wants to detroy what we stand for.

All in all, my point is, we are in this for the long haul. More exactly, forever. Your country(s) either will or will not help. Me personally, I say if you dont help, then when you are inevitably attacked, dont expect any help from us. America has the luxury of being able to wage an endless war (not by current standards of course), most do not.

Notice I never mentioned Iraq. Iraq is a fucking mistake. Such a big mistake that we no longer can do anything about it. We have to stay, probably for years to come and beyond. Not to save face or "win hearts and minds" (what complete bullshit, btw), but to save the civilians who never asked us to come in the first place. If we pull out now, better get used to seeing genocide on a Darfur scale everyday on CNN/Fox. Iran will control western Iraq which means they will hold sway on world oil. The ramifications for leaving would be FAR worse than staying. So, we stay.

I dont hope or pray for anything. The machinations of a power hungry politician no longer scare me or surprise. After the past 6 years, Im not inclined to believe anyone or anything. Its all agenda and favors. If you arent in the loop, then youre just a drone, spouting whatever party-line youre beholden to. Ive always thought myself a true independant thinker. Posting here and listening to the ravings of both sides, combined with the state of the globe and the people within, I personally see no hope at all. Maybe thats just a biased, Big Dumb American opinion, but it is what it is. I dont think the USA will lose, I think the whole world will. What that means, I am not sure. But a world without America is worse than one with, that is a fact no one with half-a-fucking brain can deny.

Well said.

[01Snake]

This is not a blame game, this is a legitimate response to the question "what can America do to win the hearts and minds of the world?" Leadership means doing what you say, and over the last 6 years America has been particularly poor at that - no trial for the terrorists, no free trade for the world, no WMDs in Iraq, no response to the world's other tyrannical regimes...



Is the US soley responsible for dealing with these other regimes? You're bitching about the handling of Iraq but you then state we are not doing anything about Iran/NK. Why should the US do anything else? So you can have more to complain about?

[ChumpDumper]

Is the US soley responsible for dealing with these other regimes?There is a price for being the sole superpower.
You're bitching about the handling of Iraq but you then state we are not doing anything about Iran/NK. Why should the US do anything else?That is perhaps an issue of priorities. Saddam turned out to be much less of a threat than he was thought/made out to be, and everything reason given for intervening in Iraq seems to be alot more pressing in other areas. Our ability to act/react in those areas is now severely limited by the situation in Iraq.

[01Snake]

There is a price for being the sole superpower.

I see your point but its so annoying to hear people from other countries constantly badmouth the US (not just on Iraq) about EVERYTHING we do in the world then turn around and want to us get involved in every problem that comes up.

[bendmz]

and here i thought the folks from Detroit were all lame.... amillion apologies... i am impressed at your stated opinion mr. DarkReign, very impressed. i did some time in the motor city back in the 60's but that's another story......
onward to the "FRIEND's" comment.....perhaps no obviously i have not made myself clear so i'll just take one point and hope you can understand what i am saying...and if that does not work maybe i can paint you a picture..
so your solution is for my goverment to stop behaving the way it does.... hmmmmmm i thought perhaps you had something more you could own as your own thought. something that would be workable instead of placing blame, but that is okay i will relay that to my elected officials... i was thinking more in line of combining the world's resourses in an effort to "EDUCATE" on means of how to co-exsist with one another. now that would mean every country would own their part with the help of others. those that chose not to be a part of the common effort would eventually suffer the ignorance and embarassement of being left behind... i believe if we as a society can get on the same page, this would be a better place to live..... the sad thing is that we live in a country that has the responsibility to protect it's people, cover our borders and then listen to all the bs of those who question how we do what we do... you ask the impossible questions, those that had been asked the days of Cain and Able...i don't have your answers, all i can hope for is that the elected officials do what is right for this country......
one last thing there Mr. Ruff...... if you do not understand what my "MILITARY SLOGAN" signifies, then i suggest you learn before you belittle that way of life again...

[smeagol]

On one hand, stop waging war on countries like Iraq without justification (there were no WMDs, there was no link to 9/11), then on the other hand ignoring real humanitarian tragedies like Mugabe in Zimbabwe or the genocide in Sudan.

Agreed


Stop sending people you SUSPECT of terrorist involvement (as yet unproven), like that poor Canadian professor, to "friendly" regimes for torture.

Not really key for the US to be loved around the world.


Stop pretending that things like "waterboarding" aren't torture.

The US should be able to get rough when interrogating suspects.


Dismantle Guantanamo Bay and actually follow the precepts of your own legal system by trying the people you accuse of terroism.

Tough point when you prisoners are terrorists.


Stop manipulating the World Bank to make even more money for you and your allies at the expense of the world's poor.

This I don't understand. Please expand.


Stop tying your aid to the world to ideological furphies (like the sex education money that is only given to programs that promote abstinence, and where any mention of condoms is forbidden).

Is this really the case?


Stop using your massive market and political power to rape the third world, and start trading fairly.

Here we totally agree. It's so hypocritical when the US pushes the "free trade" agenda elsewhere in the world while they subsidize their inneficient farmers, steele producers and other industries which cannot compete with other countries, or they build trade barriers which are ridiculous.

[smeagol]

ah, a "FRIEND" from the land down under......had to cut it off early last nite so here we go. i take it when you refer to "WE" you must be talking bout y'all down there and not include us up here.... i can not answer your questions as to why you folks do the things you do, nor will i pretend to want to try. you see when i vote for my leaders in this country i do it with a conviction that they are the people i want running my country's business. be it right in other people's eyes or not.... we as a country do not have to meet your expectations, better yey we meet our own..... you so willingly give all this feedback about how screwed up we are and how we don't do this and don't do that but fail to accept any responsibility for the action of the world and how they( other goverments) respond to actions that counter one's own belief.... how quick you point the finger..... what a shame, what a shame.....
but since you are the world's spoke person, how would you suggest we venture off into the wild blue yonder? perhaps just say the hell with everyone else and just conquer their ass and make it a state...... hey, now there's a thought, ever play the game RISK?
hey if you want to solve the world's problems and assign blame be my guess.... join the politicians of the world where all is wrong and everyone is to blame and no one has the answers... why is that?????
we don't claim to be perfect nor are our laws, but they must be better than yours.... we live in a time where one does not know who the enemy is, it could be you it could be the preacher man down the street, who do you trust...... our laws are meant to be argued, thus we have courts, and so on and so on........Terrorist, now that's a new one on us... we're working on that one and you should hear the commontion....
WMDs, now this will be the last time i comment on this issue... does the word"KURDS" mean anything to you??????
look "BUDDY BOY", you don't like how my country is behaving, that's cool, i'm not going to lose any sleep over it, better yet just stay away.....the leader of my country is a person i helped put in office and i support his actions !!!!! sadly we do have idiots in office as well, i'm working on getting them the hell out....
so you see, i trust all is well in your house and thus the reason you attack mine.... oh please, please show me the way......

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