Stone Oak Sucks!

[01Snake]

I wish they would stop building houses out here! Can you say WAY OVER CROWDED?? Its not only homes but the commercial construction is going nuts also.

I think it might be time to move.

[Das Texan]

not to mention the roads are in no way able to handle that amount of traffic. talk about an area that grew way too fast for the infastructure in place....

[01Snake]

not to mention the roads are in no way able to handle that amount of traffic. talk about an area that grew way too fast for the infastructure in place....

Yep..I think the poor road planning is what irritates me the most. They just build and build without doing anything about the roads. They cannot handle the traffic using them day and night.

[1369]

The city and Bexar Met failed miserably to keep pace with the growth. And exactly who in thre fuck is going to lease all that strip mall space going up? Do we really need two CVS pharmacies within a mile and a half of each other? How many "sub shops" does one area need? And exactly who in the hell is going to go to the "speciality" clothes stores?

[1369]

Yep..I think the poor road planning is what irritates me the most. They just build and build without doing anything about the roads. They cannot handle the traffic using them day and night.

Try going up Stone Oak Parkway or down Blanco to Huebner after 5:00. It's worse than a fucking joke. Someone at TxDOT needs to be beat in the haed with a #3 wood and take a remedial course in synchronizing traffic lights.

[01Snake]

Good to see I am not the only one who notices all these OBVIOUS problems.

PLEASE don't get me started on BexarMet! haha

[1369]

Did you get your latest "area news" rag? Seems Bexar Met had a meeting with the folks over at Champions Ridge area to say they were going to put up a new water tower and all the golf course viewing homeowners immediately screamed foul and said it'll dick up their property values.

[Das Texan]

ya but in their defense, the growth of the area, probably was far greater than any projections they ever dreamed of.


does it excuse them fully, not at all. But still, you have to recall that htis area was mostly rural by and large and then exploded with growth...its hard to catch up and bring it up to where it should be....though they should be much further along with where they are.


you cant simply have an area absolutely exploding with growth and expect the roads to be able to handle it overnight, unless you are in a pre planned community, which you arent dealing with here.

[Das Texan]

BexarMet though is one of hte most poorly run utilities in the state.


Not shocking they are fucking around and not doing things correctly.

[1369]

ya but in their defense, the growth of the area, probably was far greater than any projections they ever dreamed of.


does it excuse them fully, not at all. But still, you have to recall that htis area was mostly rural by and large and then exploded with growth...its hard to catch up and bring it up to where it should be....though they should be much further along with where they are.


you cant simply have an area absolutely exploding with growth and expect the roads to be able to handle it overnight, unless you are in a pre planned community, which you arent dealing with here.

I'm not too sure about that Das. I grew up at Bitters/Heimer in the 70's/80's and Stone Oak was platted and roads built back in the early 80's and then the S&L crisis/oil market crash/Real Estate crash came along and everything came to a screeching halt for a while. Hell, when I was in high school, Stone Oak was one of the many drinking areas we had on the weekends.

I digress, but what I'm saying is that the city knew what was planned for Stone Oak, they just didn't act on it quick enough.

[01Snake]

There is NO reason Blanco should not be in the process of being widened right now. Hell, let the developers kick in some funds to do the roads. As for Stone Oak Parkway, thats screwed! They have build that up so much there really isn't any room to widen it.

This also leads me to another "great" idea. Lets take one of, if not the busiest highway intersection in the city and overbuild it. Forget leaving room for some type of 1604/281 interchange, we need more shopping centers and restaurants damnit!

[SpursWoman]

Hell, when I was in high school, Stone Oak was one of the many drinking areas we had on the weekends.


'dem hills were pretty fun. :angel

[1369]

There is NO reason Blanco should not be in the process of being widened right now. Hell, let the developers kick in some funds to do the roads. As for Stone Oak Parkway, thats screwed! They have build that up so much there really isn't any room to widen it.

But they just finished doing exactly that a couple of three years ago. Granted, they started back in 1986 when I graduated HS, but who's counting?

[01Snake]

But they just finished doing exactly that a couple of three years ago. Granted, they started back in 1986 when I graduated HS, but who's counting?

Simply widening Blanco to 4 lanes from 1604 to Wilderness Oak would solve most of the traffic problems on that road.

[Das Texan]

There is NO reason Blanco should not be in the process of being widened right now. Hell, let the developers kick in some funds to do the roads. As for Stone Oak Parkway, thats screwed! They have build that up so much there really isn't any room to widen it.

This also leads me to another "great" idea. Lets take one of, if not the busiest highway intersection in the city and overbuild it. Forget leaving room for some type of 1604/281 interchange, we need more shopping centers and restaurants damnit!


well thats where there is no planning done, the same shit was done at 410/281 as a prime example.

yet on the other side of town you have one of the best interchanges in the city.

[Das Texan]

I'm not too sure about that Das. I grew up at Bitters/Heimer in the 70's/80's and Stone Oak was platted and roads built back in the early 80's and then the S&L crisis/oil market crash/Real Estate crash came along and everything came to a screeching halt for a while. Hell, when I was in high school, Stone Oak was one of the many drinking areas we had on the weekends.

I digress, but what I'm saying is that the city knew what was planned for Stone Oak, they just didn't act on it quick enough.


San Antonio also wasnt going through any real explosions of growth at that time, to many this was just something to happen many years from then and something not to be worried about, you can fault them for not thinking ahead, but thats been done on virtually everything in this city, and you nailed it....Stone Oak was an area to go to get away from things out of the city where people wouldnt bother you. Why build up roads for an area that doesnt need them? The growth still came at a pace far greater than ever anticipated.

[johnsmith]

There is NO reason Blanco should not be in the process of being widened right now. Hell, let the developers kick in some funds to do the roads. As for Stone Oak Parkway, thats screwed! They have build that up so much there really isn't any room to widen it.

This also leads me to another "great" idea. Lets take one of, if not the busiest highway intersection in the city and overbuild it. Forget leaving room for some type of 1604/281 interchange, we need more shopping centers and restaurants damnit!

The interchange for 1604 and 281 was going to be built as part of the plans for a future tollway. The interchange would have been done around 2009, while the 1604 toll road was planned to finish around 2012. That means, we would have had three years (at least) of interchange on 1604 and 281 without any tolls, not to mention that the area on 281 from 1604 to Borgflield was also going to be widened and have frontage roads to get rid of the lights at Evans, Stone Oak Parkway, Encino Rio, and Borgfield respectively. However, because we have a bunch of crying pussies running around this town, construction was halted because the community came together and decided that TxDot didn't do a proper "environmental impact study", which they didn't, but still, who the fuck cares. Everyone seems fine with building malls and subdivisions (of which they have no control over) on top of the aquafer but God forbid we fix the traffic issue. Anyway, thanks to said pussies, don't plan on this stretch of highway, or 1604 and 281 interchange to be fixed until the middle of the next decade. ENJOY IT RESIDENTS.

[Das Texan]

There is NO reason Blanco should not be in the process of being widened right now. Hell, let the developers kick in some funds to do the roads. As for Stone Oak Parkway, thats screwed! They have build that up so much there really isn't any room to widen it.

This also leads me to another "great" idea. Lets take one of, if not the busiest highway intersection in the city and overbuild it. Forget leaving room for some type of 1604/281 interchange, we need more shopping centers and restaurants damnit!


Not likely to happen, especially over an existing public roadway.

The city could widen stone oak via emminent domain easily, but that would require funds, foresight and planning.

We also need to finish some other projects first.

[johnsmith]

well thats where there is no planning done, the same shit was done at 410/281 as a prime example.

yet on the other side of town you have one of the best interchanges in the city.

Which interchange?

[Das Texan]

The interchange for 1604 and 281 was going to be built as part of the plans for a future tollway. The interchange would have been done around 2009, while the 1604 toll road was planned to finish around 2012. That means, we would have had three years (at least) of interchange on 1604 and 281 without any tolls, not to mention that the area on 281 from 1604 to Borgflield was also going to be widened and have frontage roads to get rid of the lights at Evans, Stone Oak Parkway, Encino Rio, and Borgfield respectively. However, because we have a bunch of crying pussies running around this town, construction was halted because the community came together and decided that TxDot didn't do a proper "environmental impact study", which they didn't, but still, who the fuck cares. Everyone seems fine with building malls and subdivisions (of which they have no control over) on top of the aquafer but God forbid we fix the traffic issue. Anyway, thanks to said pussies, don't plan on this stretch of highway, or 1604 and 281 interchange to be fixed until the middle of the next decade. ENJOY IT RESIDENTS.


well the EIS is sorta required before doing this type of thing, you can maybe get away with not doing one on private development, not happening on public domain.

There is a reason the EIS is required you know....

[Das Texan]

Which interchange?


410/281 southside

[1369]

Simply widening Blanco to 4 lanes from 1604 to Wilderness Oak would solve most of the traffic problems on that road.

Gotta build a new bridge at Panther Springs Creek. That means an environmental impact study (creek runs when it rains enough every 100 years or so, that makes it a wetland) which will only take about three years. Then you have to build the road, which will take about 4-5 years more. Oh yea, there's cedar that'll need to be cut down meaning the golden-cheeked warbler will be displaced. Gonna have to stop the construction and fight a lawsuit which will mean another delay of a couple of years.

You're right though, going to four lanes would solve a bunch of problem, but that's a rational fix in an irrational world.

[01Snake]

The interchange for 1604 and 281 was going to be built as part of the plans for a future tollway. The interchange would have been done around 2009, while the 1604 toll road was planned to finish around 2012. That means, we would have had three years (at least) of interchange on 1604 and 281 without any tolls, not to mention that the area on 281 from 1604 to Borgflield was also going to be widened and have frontage roads to get rid of the lights at Evans, Stone Oak Parkway, Encino Rio, and Borgfield respectively. However, because we have a bunch of crying pussies running around this town, construction was halted because the community came together and decided that TxDot didn't do a proper "environmental impact study", which they didn't, but still, who the fuck cares. Everyone seems fine with building malls and subdivisions (of which they have no control over) on top of the aquafer but God forbid we fix the traffic issue. Anyway, thanks to said pussies, don't plan on this stretch of highway, or 1604 and 281 interchange to be fixed until the middle of the next decade. ENJOY IT RESIDENTS.

I saw no problem with the toll roads either. If I lived out 281, I sure as hell would have gladly paid the toll to avoid that mess.

If they won't do the toll road, why not build some damn overpasses at the intersections you mentioned? Those are the causes of the damn traffic in the first place.

[johnsmith]

well the EIS is sorta required before doing this type of thing, you can maybe get away with not doing one on private development, not happening on public domain.

There is a reason the EIS is required you know....

THey did do an EIS, just not a very good one. It was another of TXdot's lapse of judgments. TxDot is one of the dumbest organizations in the country, not to mention one of the laziest as well. Here we have a 3 mile span of road that is going to be one of the hottest subjects in town once construction starts, you'd think they'd pay attention to as many details as they could up front rather then waiting for the public, which of course they were going to find out, to notice the terrible job they did on the EIS. They nearly left out the topic of the Aquafer on it.
Having said that, you seem like a reasonable guy, you know as well as I know that construction on that road would have gotten rid of congestion in the area, thus reducing pollution from vehicles, and there would have been every single control you'd think of in order to keep ANYTHING from even potentially damaging the aquafer. Unlike the home builders in the area who I've actually seen discard "empty" paint cans into creeks and drainage ditches.

[johnsmith]

410/281 southside

Agreed, but not a whole lot of traffic in the area either.......but yes, you are right.

[1369]

Hell, I WANT a toll road there. Especially if it would have gone through as originally planned and been privately funded/operated. That means the folks who built it would have a vested interest in finishing it quickly and maintaining it properly.

[johnsmith]

I saw no problem with the toll roads either. If I lived out 281, I sure as hell would have gladly paid the toll to avoid that mess.

If they won't do the toll road, why not build some damn overpasses at the intersections you mentioned? Those are the causes of the damn traffic in the first place.

TxDot, and I know you find this hard to believe because I do too, but TxDot is financially stretched thin and say that the only expansion of north side freeways in San Antonio will be done through the use of tolls, or at least to get ready for the use of tolls.

[johnsmith]

Hell, I WANT a toll road there. Especially if it would have gone through as originally planned and been privately funded/operated. That means the folks who built it would have a vested interest in finishing it quickly and maintaining it properly.


DING DING DING. Now why couldn't every jackass petitioning against said roads on the corners of these intersections see that too?

[Das Texan]

THey did do an EIS, just not a very good one. It was another of TXdot's lapse of judgments. TxDot is one of the dumbest organizations in the country, not to mention one of the laziest as well. Here we have a 3 mile span of road that is going to be one of the hottest subjects in town once construction starts, you'd think they'd pay attention to as many details as they could up front rather then waiting for the public, which of course they were going to find out, to notice the terrible job they did on the EIS. They nearly left out the topic of the Aquafer on it.
Having said that, you seem like a reasonable guy, you know as well as I know that construction on that road would have gotten rid of congestion in the area, thus reducing pollution from vehicles, and there would have been every single control you'd think of in order to keep ANYTHING from even potentially damaging the aquafer. Unlike the home builders in the area who I've actually seen discard "empty" paint cans into creeks and drainage ditches.


Well that is only the most important part of the EIS they left out there in that area. You can't fault certain agencies for not approving it, when there are legitimate issues that have to be addressed and looked at before proceeding. The EIS largely would set out all the various controls for avoiding hte pollution, good job by TxDot not doing their job.

Most homebuilders are lazy sons of bitches that dont care about anything but maximizing profits at the lowest costs, its cheaper to ditch the paint can than to actually remove it like youa re supposed to. Or they are just lazy, probably more two than one. Blame those that are supposed to be making sure this shit doesnt happen.

[Das Texan]

TxDot, and I know you find this hard to believe because I do too, but TxDot is financially stretched thin and say that the only expansion of north side freeways in San Antonio will be done through the use of tolls, or at least to get ready for the use of tolls.



a lot of that is due to their own wastfulness, but this is true by and large.

[1369]

DING DING DING. Now why couldn't every jackass petitioning against said roads on the corners of these intersections see that too?

Because COPS/Metro Alliance/NAMBLA/PETA/Hippies For Nixon and a host of other idiots I can't remember drank the Kool-Aid and started claiming that there was tax money in place that TxDOT earmarked for the expansion and going with private enterprise would mean loss of revenue on tolls collected.

[johnsmith]

Well that is only the most important part of the EIS they left out there in that area. You can't fault certain agencies for not approving it, when there are legitimate issues that have to be addressed and looked at before proceeding. The EIS largely would set out all the various controls for avoiding hte pollution, good job by TxDot not doing their job.

Most homebuilders are lazy sons of bitches that dont care about anything but maximizing profits at the lowest costs, its cheaper to ditch the paint can than to actually remove it like youa re supposed to. Or they are just lazy, probably more two than one. Blame those that are supposed to be making sure this shit doesnt happen.

That's the worst part though, the builder had all those appropriate controls in but was powerless to do anything about the cancellation of the project. But you're right, it's TxDot's job to have that in the EIS in the first place, even if the builder is planning to take necessary control measurments to prevent this stuff anwyay. TxDot will come out even better though because of it. Once they are done with the actual study, everyone in the area will be absolutely screaming for the roads to get built because traffic is just getting worse and worse. Guess what the average speed on 281 from 1604 to Borgfield is during a 24 hour cycle................17.............Need I say more?

[johnsmith]

a lot of that is due to their own wastfulness, but this is true by and large.

Not so much there wastfulness as it is there lack of planning. They often pay a contractor based upon past estimates without ever actually really crunching the numbers for materials/labor/costs. Contractors around the state love them for it too because they make money hand over fist off of their poor planning. Unfortunately, TxDot usually slows every job down as well because of this very lack of planning and the subsequent change orders that come with every phase of every job to save the money that they should have saved in the first place.

[1369]

That's the worst part though, the builder had all those appropriate controls in but was powerless to do anything about the cancellation of the project. But you're right, it's TxDot's job to have that in the EIS in the first place, even if the builder is planning to take necessary control measurments to prevent this stuff anwyay. TxDot will come out even better though because of it. Once they are done with the actual study, everyone in the area will be absolutely screaming for the roads to get built because traffic is just getting worse and worse. Guess what the average speed on 281 from 1604 to Borgfield is during a 24 hour cycle................17.............Need I say more?

Another thing to remember (I believe I have this right), is that TxDOT is on the hook to pay off the contractor a percentage of the entire contract since they had to stop his work. Yea, that'll fill those tax coffers faster to help pay for new roads that aren't toll roads.

[Das Texan]

And thats how TxDot survives and is able to get away with it. Its the story with them throughout the entire state. They are one of the most wasteful entities in this entire state, but who is really going to put the hammer down on them to force them to get their act together?

[johnsmith]

Because COPS/Metro Alliance/NAMBLA/PETA/Hippies For Nixon and a host of other idiots I can't remember drank the Kool-Aid and started claiming that there was tax money in place that TxDOT earmarked for the expansion and going with private enterprise would mean loss of revenue on tolls collected.

This was my favorite part as well. None of these people really stopped to figure out who would/will benefit from these roads being built. They saw a foreign company step in and put up the money to build the thing and only saw that this foreign company would be the one to collect the tolls. What these jackasses didn't look at was how long they would collect these tolls. I will assure you that it wasn't all that long before an American company would begin collecting a fraction of the tolls and the state taking home the rest, thus collecting enough money to begin work on other roads that need it as well. These people didn't look at the grand scheme of things, they only looked at the tolls and how they would affect their bottom lines now.

[johnsmith]

Another thing to remember (I believe I have this right), is that TxDOT is on the hook to pay off the contractor a percentage of the entire contract since they had to stop his work. Yea, that'll fill those tax coffers faster to help pay for new roads that aren't toll roads.

You are correct sir, and I won't even tell you the amount as it will drive you insane.

[Das Texan]

Not so much there wastfulness as it is there lack of planning. They often pay a contractor based upon past estimates without ever actually really crunching the numbers for materials/labor/costs. Contractors around the state love them for it too because they make money hand over fist off of their poor planning. Unfortunately, TxDot usually slows every job down as well because of this very lack of planning and the subsequent change orders that come with every phase of every job to save the money that they should have saved in the first place.

well their lack of planning can be construed as a form of wasting public tax moneies.

[johnsmith]

And thats how TxDot survives and is able to get away with it. Its the story with them throughout the entire state. They are one of the most wasteful entities in this entire state, but who is really going to put the hammer down on them to force them to get their act together?


Kind of makes you want to go work for them doesn't it?

[johnsmith]

well their lack of planning can be construed as a form of wasting public tax moneies.

Absolutely

[1369]

Not so much there wastfulness as it is there lack of planning. They often pay a contractor based upon past estimates without ever actually really crunching the numbers for materials/labor/costs. Contractors around the state love them for it too because they make money hand over fist off of their poor planning. Unfortunately, TxDot usually slows every job down as well because of this very lack of planning and the subsequent change orders that come with every phase of every job to save the money that they should have saved in the first place.

You're right to a point John. TxDOT bids out the work and all work goes to the lowest qualified bidder. Jobs go slower beacuse they break out each project into a shitload of smaller projects which means multiple contractors/lack of coordination amongst contractors/engineer approval on things like concrete tests and such. If you look at how they did the repairs to the Queen Isabella causeway and even the 281 expansion with Zachary in the 80's, that's how to run projects right. TxDOT needs to be released from the public bidding restraints they are under now and be able to enter into risk/reward, shared savings, or other types of contracts in that exist in the real world and you'll see things built much faster.

[johnsmith]

You're right to a point John. TxDOT bids out the work and all work goes to the lowest qualified bidder. Jobs go slower beacuse they break out each project into a shitload of smaller projects which means multiple contractors/lack of coordination amongst contractors/engineer approval on things like concrete tests and such. If you look at how they did the repairs to the Queen Isabella causeway and even the 281 expansion with Zachary in the 80's, that's how to run projects right. TxDOT needs to be released from the public bidding restraints they are under now and be able to enter into risk/reward, shared savings, or other types of contracts in that exist in the real world and you'll see things built much faster.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. I was just stating one of the many issues that cause these issues within TxDot. Low-bidder is the reason 410/San Pedro right next to NorthStar mall is in the shape it's in (way to go previous estimates) as well as why 10/410 is just shy of two years behind.

[johnsmith]

Jobs go slower beacuse they break out each project into a shitload of smaller projects which means multiple contractors/lack of coordination amongst contractors/engineer approval on things like concrete tests and such.

This can just as easily be blamed on the contractor though, they are the ones that team up with other contractors to join these joint ventures and share the risk/reward for each job, when it's done that way of course. TxDot doesn't care if two, three, or even a dozen companies team up for a job, as long as that entity is the low bidder, they get the job.
Having said that, I just read your quote again, and I think you meant different sections of the same road(s) and the communication needed in order to complete, but again, this has to be done as most contractors in the business of Texas Highways would be stretched to thin to focus on one "giant" job, unless they plan well in advance, something that more often then not, TxDot doesn't grant the time or ability to do so. Furthermore, this also allows TxDot the ability to call the same job, several different names and spread the risk around to multiple contractors.........either way though, TXdot blows.

[T Park]

410/281 southside


lovely interchange going south on 281 there :)

[johnsmith]

Anyway, back to the point, yes, Stone Oak sprawl is unreal, unfortunately, TxDot didn't do anyone any favors in order to improve the situation, but neither did the tree-hugging shortsighted jackasses that petition this town for every little issue.

[01Snake]

So where to go? I'm looking at buying some land to yet again build another house on. We have been eying the Leon Springs area along with Fair Oaks. Boerne is a bit to far out for me. I'd LOVE to find some property with a nice view of the city like Crownridge has but land like this is hard to find.

[1369]

Depends Snake, where do you work and how much do you want to spend? Personally, I'd stay off 281 (unless you need to jump 46 to 35 or 10) because of the traffic and the land is overvalued IMO.

[01Snake]

Depends Snake, where do you work and how much do you want to spend? Personally, I'd stay off 281 (unless you need to jump 46 to 35 or 10) because of the traffic and the land is overvalued IMO.

I can work from anywhere so location is not too important. I do want to be close to the city. The thought of having to drive 40-50 miles to get to a shopping center, movie theater, etc doesn't interest me.

As far as price goes...looking in the $5-6 range. I'm sure if I build another home, it will end up costing me more than it would finding an already built one. I really want a nice view of the city but I'm finding that this will probably only happen if I buy a lot in a subdivision and will only have an acre or less to build on. I'm not a fan of having the neighbors house right on top of your's so 2 acres would be great. Who knows?? haha.

As you said, I will not be moving to another location in Stone Oak or anywhere out 281 for sure.

[johnsmith]

I can work from anywhere so location is not too important. I do want to be close to the city. The thought of having to drive 40-50 miles to get to a shopping center, movie theater, etc doesn't interest me.

As far as price goes...looking in the $5-6 range. I'm sure if I build another home, it will end up costing me more than it would finding an already built one. I really want a nice view of the city but I'm finding that this will probably only happen if I buy a lot in a subdivision and will only have an acre or less to build on. I'm not a fan of having the neighbors house right on top of your's so 2 acres would be great. Who knows?? haha.

As you said, I will not be moving to another location in Stone Oak or anywhere out 281 for sure.

I'm not gonna lie to you snake, you're not gonna get much for 5 to 6 bucks.

[01Snake]

I'm not gonna lie to you snake, you're not gonna get much for 5 to 6 bucks.

Damn! Ever since W got elected, I cant get jack for $6 bucks anymore.

[ashbeeigh]

So where to go? I'm looking at buying some land to yet again build another house on. We have been eying the Leon Springs area along with Fair Oaks. Boerne is a bit to far out for me. I'd LOVE to find some property with a nice view of the city like Crownridge has but land like this is hard to find.

That area is next, although it's more direct(with just 10 by it) and they have that new nature park behind it (So the view you were looking for will be preserved) to keep any development right next to Crownridge from happening. With La Cantera and the Rim soon (which is going ot be bigger then the Forum) the area between 1604/10 and Boerne is going to explode even more so then it already has in the past twenty years.

[Buddy Holly]

Plans are in place for the expansion of some of the roads in Stone Oak. For instance, Huebner is planned to expand all the way to 281. Hardy Oak is planned to be expened north all the way to Stone Oak Parkway, giving Stone Oak another north to south artery. However. even that will put a small dent in the current traffic problems.

I can show you aerials from 1995 of Stone Oak that show a church (Cornerstone) and 4-5 subdivisions. That's all it was back then. Now it's just, insane.

[johnsmith]

Plans are in place for the expansion of some of the roads in Stone Oak. For instance, Huebner is planned to expand all the way to 281. Hardy Oak is planned to be expened north all the way to Stone Oak Parkway, giving Stone Oak another north to south artery. However. even that will put a small dent in the current traffic problems.

I can show you aerials from 1995 of Stone Oak that show a church (Cornerstone) and 4-5 subdivisions. That's all it was back then. Now it's just, insane.


You don't even have to go back to 1995. When I got here in 2000 there was hardly anything out there even then.

[01Snake]

I can show you aerials from 1995 of Stone Oak that show a church (Cornerstone) and 4-5 subdivisions. That's all it was back then. Now it's just, insane.

I remeber that as well. I also remember when UTSA use to be out in the middle of nowhere. On I-10, once you got past Wurzbach heading towards Boerne, there was nothing! Those two areas, and also 1604/I-35 area have exploded over the last 10 years.

[Buddy Holly]

That area is next, although it's more direct(with just 10 by it) and they have that new nature park behind it (So the view you were looking for will be preserved) to keep any development right next to Crownridge from happening. With La Cantera and the Rim soon (which is going ot be bigger then the Forum) the area between 1604/10 and Boerne is going to explode even more so then it already has in the past twenty years.

The Rim is going to be 2 million sq. ft. of retail. Huge.

Also, recently announced was a 9,000 acre development right next to The Rim. That development will itself have a 1.4 million sq. ft. shopping center. :madrun

[Das Texan]

Plans are in place for the expansion of some of the roads in Stone Oak. For instance, Huebner is planned to expand all the way to 281. Hardy Oak is planned to be expened north all the way to Stone Oak Parkway, giving Stone Oak another north to south artery. However. even that will put a small dent in the current traffic problems.

I can show you aerials from 1995 of Stone Oak that show a church (Cornerstone) and 4-5 subdivisions. That's all it was back then. Now it's just, insane.


Kinda like I said, growth that nobody really ever predicted at the rate it has happened.

[1369]

Hardy Oak is planned to be expened north all the way to Stone Oak Parkway, giving Stone Oak another north to south artery.

How's that going to happen? Hardy Oak (on the west side of SOP) dead ends at the new "temple" already and I don't thin it can be routed anywhere else. Are there going to be two Hardy Oaks?

[Das Texan]

So where to go? I'm looking at buying some land to yet again build another house on. We have been eying the Leon Springs area along with Fair Oaks. Boerne is a bit to far out for me. I'd LOVE to find some property with a nice view of the city like Crownridge has but land like this is hard to find.

What type of view exactly are you looking for of the city?


All the places out on teh northern areas of town are going to be a bit overpriced if you ask me. The more you go out on 10 the higher its going to get due to the Hill Country views and the prices people are paying for those.

[ashbeeigh]

I remeber that as well. I also remember when UTSA use to be out in the middle of nowhere. On I-10, once you got past Wurzbach heading towards Boerne, there was nothing!

I grew up on De Zavala (we moved here in 1989) and the gas station across the street from Barnacle Bills used to be a house..no joke. ..a little farm house. And now driving to the Colonade is a pain in the ass. :lmao.

[JoePublic]

I avoid that area of town like the plague.

[Buddy Holly]

Kinda like I said, growth that nobody really ever predicted at the rate it has happened.

Oh, of course. I wasn't disagreeing, I was just saying plans are in place for road rexpansion. But the original layout was crap when it came to it being filled out. I think they thought it would grow slow enough so they could tweak road plans here and there but it just got out of hand.

[Buddy Holly]

How's that going to happen? Hardy Oak (on the west side of SOP) dead ends at the new "temple" already and I don't thin it can be routed anywhere else. Are there going to be two Hardy Oaks?

I don't understand? Sure it's dead end, that's because the north section ends there. There's a southern section of Hardy Oak. There's a mile long gap between the two ends. That is what will be linked.

Here, check out this aerial: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=San+Antonio,+TX&ie=UTF8&om=0&z=15&ll=29.619468,-98.476038&spn=0.018691,0.043259&iwloc=A

[01Snake]

What type of view exactly are you looking for of the city?


All the places out on teh northern areas of town are going to be a bit overpriced if you ask me. The more you go out on 10 the higher its going to get due to the Hill Country views and the prices people are paying for those.

Yes, land it getting crazy. We put in an offer for 2 acres of Camp Bullis (opposite side of road from Crownridge) for $190. We backed out when it was not the land we were told it was.

As for the view, I'd love a view similar to that found in Crownridge. There are a few areas in Stone Oak/Timerwood Park with such views but lands either already built on or not for sale yet.

We actually looked at The Ridge at Sonoma Verde - The Estates yesterday and they have some great views out there. I'm just not sure if I wanna be in a subdivision with homes right on top of each other.

[1369]

I don't understand? Sure it's dead end, that's because the north section ends there. There's a southern section of Hardy Oak. There's a mile long gap between the two ends. That is what will be linked.

Here, check out this aerial: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=San+Antonio,+TX&ie=UTF8&om=0&z=15&ll=29.619468,-98.476038&spn=0.018691,0.043259&iwloc=A

I thought that area at one time was going to be a park or something between the two. And looking at your map link, there's a neighborhood between the two?

You have any idea on when they plan on connecting the two? I've also heard that they are also planning on taking Wilderness Oak all the way to 281.

[Buddy Holly]

I thought that area at one time was going to be a park or something between the two. And looking at your map link, there's a neighborhood between the two?

Those subdivisions have a land gap between the two specifically for Hardy Oak Blvd.

Zoom in to see:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=San+Antonio,+TX&ie=UTF8&om=0&z=16&ll=29.635136,-98.482261&spn=0.009344,0.021629&t=k&iwloc=A



I've also heard that they are also planning on taking Wilderness Oak all the way to 281.

Yes they do. With Wilderness they just have to fill two gaps. Wilderness already hits 281 but there are two gaps between the western side and the eastern side. Funny enough, there's a Central segment built.

[Buddy Holly]

Just for reference:

This is far north Stone Oak, Overlook Parkway.

In 1995:

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=29.679272~-98.467155&style=a&lvl=15&scene=5856552

Same exact overlay in 2004:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=San+Antonio,+TX&ie=UTF8&om=0&z=15&ll=29.679142,-98.467112&spn=0.01868,0.043259&t=k&iwloc=A

[01Snake]

Thats nuts!

[Das Texan]

Thats nuts!


told you its absoltuely nutty how much the area has developed.

[Buddy Holly]

For those who are having problems with the link:

1995:
http://xs106.xs.to/xs106/06374/overlook1995.PNG

2003:
http://xs106.xs.to/xs106/06374/overlook2004.PNG

[spurschick]

There is just no easy way in to Stone Oak in the late afternoon or out in the morning. Both Blanco and Stone Oak Pkwy are completely clogged. There seems to be plenty of room to expand Blanco. The least they could do is create a right-hand turn lane at Blanco/Heubner. The folks turning right in the morning are what causes the traffic at that time.

[2Blonde]

That's a 2003 map and there are more subdivisions and housing now. I just don't see how they can link up Hardy Oak with the church and all the houses in the way. If you come up from the end that starts at 1604 there is no way to cut through the subdivisions that I can see. But it would be cool if they do it.

[Buddy Holly]

It's in the master plan for Stone Oak, Hardy Oak was always supposed to connect. City funding for roads has been slow coming.

[2Blonde]

It's in the master plan for Stone Oak, Hardy Oak was always supposed to connect. City funding for roads has been slow coming.
Ahh, the "Master Plan"

[KEDA]

Bulverde to SA every day twice a day for me!

if I have to work at 7am I have to leave the house at 6:15

if I work at 6am I leave at 5:40


If I leave work at 4 pm, I get home at 4:45

If I leave work at 5pm, I get home at 6:20

and if I close I leave at 9:30pm I get home at 9:50pm

since the assholes wont build a tollroad, overpasses need to be built at Stone Oak, Evans, and Encino Rio at the very least.



The overcrowding is fucking stupid, and its only going to get worse.

[SequSpur]

stone oak is for pussies... come live on the southside bitches.

[KEDA]

fuck the southside

if I wanted to live down there, I would have to drop 20 IQ points and learn how to not take a shower!

[KEDA]

thats right, Im representin' COMAL COUNTY!

[ashbeeigh]

Bulverde to SA every day twice a day for me!

The overcrowding is fucking stupid, and its only going to get worse.

I have no idea when my dad leaves in the morning but it's damn near the asscrack of dawn De Zavala to San Marcos and back five days a week. Now that sucks balls. Something has to be done around Stone Oak. I win the arguement. :D The end.

Only I'm kidding.

[SequSpur]

fuck the southside

if I wanted to live down there, I would have to drop 20 IQ points and learn how to not take a shower!

dude the southside is where it's at...

I went over there the other day and I actually came back clean.

[KEDA]

who invited the dirty foot queen into this?

do us a favor use that thing they call soap next time your monthly bath is due!

thx!

[ashbeeigh]

who invited the dirty foot queen into this?


:lmao I forgot about that. I think I'm going to go cry now.

[KEDA]

dude the southside is where it's at...

I went over there the other day and I actually came back clean.


I dont believe you


you must have stood out in the rain, I know there were at least 10 families with bars of Ivory soap and 7 or 8 little mijos running around in the yard while mom and grandma washed them as fast as they could.

[SequSpur]

I dont believe you


you must have stood out in the rain, I know there were at least 10 families with bars of Ivory soap and 7 or 8 little mijos running around in the yard while mom and grandma washed them as fast as they could.


Dude... you saw us in the front yard!!!

[KEDA]

of course I did, you thought I made that shit up?

[SequSpur]

dude, i got bent over again bowling last night.. that same girl...

[KEDA]

I shot fucking great tonight as well

159

159

193

fucking beautiful!!!!

[SequSpur]

I shot fucking great tonight as well

159

159

193

fucking beautiful!!!!

i think they are trying to get us to buy new shit. It's a got damn set up.

[Buddy Holly]

:lol at people that live in stone oak and think they are big shit. they just drive in big shit everyday of their miserable keep up with the jones' lives.

Who's acting like big shit?

[KEDA]

yeah, but my big shit is nice

so there!!!

[KEDA]

and I know of nobody in my 'hood by the name of Jones.

[Das Texan]

fuck the southside

if I wanted to live down there, I would have to drop 20 IQ points and learn how to not take a shower!



:rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes


so you mean if i were to move to the northside my IQ would magically rise 20 points and I would learn what a shower was?!?!?!?!

WOW!

[Kori Ellis]

KEDA is just being an ass and ruining a topic that was actually discussing something relevant, just ignore him.

[Buddy Holly]

Was KEDA being serious? I thought he was being tongue and cheek. If he isn't, what an asshole.

[KEDA]

yeah, Im an asshole

but Im not serious

[johnsmith]

:lol at people that live in stone oak and think they are big shit. they just drive in big shit everyday of their miserable keep up with the jones' lives.

Yes, we are so miserable what with our homes, jobs, ability to read........how about you just keep being an idiot and shut the fuck up.

Oh, and how are those two book stores working out for you guys down there? Out of business yet?

[johnsmith]

since the assholes wont build a tollroad, overpasses need to be built at Stone Oak, Evans, and Encino Rio at the very least.


Not gonna happen........make sure you thank the people handing out pamphlets explaining why it's wrong to build toll roads for this one. And continue to enjoy the traffic until sometime into the middle of the next decade. But hey, it could be worse, you could live on the south side.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

In my experience, toll roads are a temporary fix which CAN (but don't automatically) reduce traffic on the main roads for a few years. What has been proven to work over almost the past 100 years is public transportation alternatives like LIGHT RAIL AND SUBWAY. Too bad the exploiticans can't figure out how to fatten their pockets with a light rail plan. There's just too much money from oil co.'s and automakers to stop building roads. More roads goes hand in hand with more cars and more drivers. Once a metropolis has an extensive and efficient light rail or subway system, the system is self-sustaining and will actually cap the number of drivers or greatly reduce the growth such that roads in San Antonio will no longer need constant re-construction. I've lived in San Antonio since '87 and I can never remember 1 month when there hasn't been construction on 410. I say fucking hooray to the toll-road opponents
They understand that constant construction of new roads benefit the people only temporarily while fortifying an endless cycle of greed which will provide $$$$ to politicians and contractors for decades to come.

[ShoogarBear]

Cool. Neighborhood smack.

NORFEEEST!!! ROOLZ!!!!!

[johnsmith]

In my experience, toll roads are a temporary fix which CAN (but don't automatically) reduce traffic on the main roads for a few years. What has been proven to work over almost the past 100 years is public transportation alternatives like LIGHT RAIL AND SUBWAY. Too bad the exploiticans can't figure out how to fatten their pockets with a light rail plan. There's just too much money from oil co.'s and automakers to stop building roads. More roads goes hand in hand with more cars and more drivers. Once a metropolis has an extensive and efficient light rail or subway system, the system is self-sustaining and will actually cap the number of drivers or greatly reduce the growth such that roads in San Antonio will no longer need constant re-construction. I've lived in San Antonio since '87 and I can never remember 1 month when there hasn't been construction on 410. I say fucking hooray to the toll-road opponents
They understand that constant construction of new roads benefit the people only temporarily while fortifying an endless cycle of greed which will provide $$$$ to politicians and contractors for decades to come.

A light rail system in San Antonio was proposed to city council and was subsequently kicked out because of lack of support and funding.

The proposed toll roads would have/will fixed the traffic issues in the neighborhoods/areas being discussed because they will get rid of the street lights that cause the congestion in the first place and also more then double the amount of available lanes to the drivers currently using said roads.

You won't "cap" the population growth in San Antonio by building a light rail, the only way to do that is increase the cost of living and stop bringing in new companies to the area........that sounds like a wise decision.

Politicians would have seen no financial benefit from the toll roads and the contractor scheduled to build the toll roads is none other then Zachry construction, a San Antonio based organization that employs over 15,000 people throughout the world.......but hey, I can see why you wouldn't want them to succeed.

You've been here since 1987 huh? That sounds about right because to me you sound like the typical SA resident that fears change, doesn't want to see expansion, and would like to stay a "small town" forever. My recommendation would be to move to Corpus, I've spent quite a bit of time down there lately, they are even less progressive then SA, you'd love it.

[spurster]

Why are you blaming TXDOT? The whole area has been developed so there is no way to get anywhere except by a few major roads. WIdening them and toll roads are short-term fixes as more development will easily overload them again.

[johnsmith]

Why are you blaming TXDOT? The whole area has been developed so there is no way to get anywhere except by a few major roads. WIdening them and toll roads are short-term fixes as more development will easily overload them again.

I'm blaming TxDot for not having the foresight to create a proper environmental impact study in order to build the first phase of the entire project which was the area of 281 from 1604 to Borgfield Rd. This would have alleviated the congestion on that stretch, which as anyone who enjoys this lovely commute on a daily basis can tell you it sucks ass.
Your solution then would be to leave the roads as they are and continue with the development? Bad news, the development won't stop either way and the roads have to be expanded.
Read the entire thread if you feel the need to comment.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

You say I fear change? In fact, building toll roads IS the status quo in huge TX metropoli these days. The brilliant people supporting toll roads are saying,
"Hmm. We keep getting thousands of more residents and drivers each year. These people are are congregating in the ex-urban neighboorhoods and clogging the existing large highways that were built to relieve this congestion in the first place. I GUESS WE NEED MORE ROADS!!!! That way we ENSURE that in ten years when our ex-urban population will have at least doubled, we'l have THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM and have to build EVEN MORE ROADS! We'll even be able to make people pay to drive on them when their tax monies paid for their construction in the first place! Awesome thinking on our part!!! On top of all that, this works out great for us because sheesh, the oil and gas companies are our biggest campaign contributors, the biggest lobbyers for highway developement, AND THE STRONGEST OPPONENT OF LIGHT RAIL. We'll keep getting re-elected and the oil and gas cos. will keep greasing our palms for more and more and more and more roads."

Fear change? I say let's support RADICAL CHANGE. If the existing infrastructure is bursting at the seams, let's change the status quo. No idiot would beleive that public transport "Caps population growth." what it can cap is the number of urban AND ex-urban drivers on our existing roadways. Does anyone expect gas prices to EVER fall below 2$ again? not in my lifetime, anyway. People WILL use metro and light rail. Ask Matt Bonner. :lol the reason VIA is a joke mass-transit system is because there are too many huge highways that have caused sprawl. Visit a ANY major european city. Hell, got to San Franciso or Boston. see how traffic congestion has been under way better control for the past 25 years. Then ask yourself, "what do all of those cities have in common?

[johnsmith]

You say I fear change? In fact, building toll roads IS the status quo in huge TX metropoli these days. The brilliant people supporting toll roads are saying,
"Hmm. We keep getting thousands of more residents and drivers each year. These people are are congregating in the ex-urban neighboorhoods and clogging the existing large highways that were built to relieve this congestion in the first place. I GUESS WE NEED MORE ROADS!!!! That way we ENSURE that in ten years when our ex-urban population will have at least doubled, we'l have THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM and have to build EVEN MORE ROADS! We'll even be able to make people pay to drive on them when their tax monies paid for their construction in the first place! Awesome thinking on our part!!! On top of all that, this works out great for us because sheesh, the oil and gas companies are our biggest campaign contributors, the biggest lobbyers for highway developement, AND THE STRONGEST OPPONENT OF LIGHT RAIL. We'll keep getting re-elected and the oil and gas cos. will keep greasing our palms for more and more and more and more roads."

Fear change? I say let's support RADICAL CHANGE. If the existing infrastructure is bursting at the seams, let's change the status quo. No idiot would beleive that public transport "Caps population growth." what it can cap is the number of urban AND ex-urban drivers on our existing roadways. Does anyone expect gas prices to EVER fall below 2$ again? not in my lifetime, anyway. People WILL use metro and light rail. Ask Matt Bonner. :lol the reason VIA is a joke mass-transit system is because there are too many huge highways that have caused sprawl. Visit a ANY major european city. Hell, got to San Franciso or Boston. see how traffic congestion has been under way better control for the past 25 years. Then ask yourself, "what do all of those cities have in common?


Easy there little fella. I never said I disagree with the concept of light rail. In fact, I would whole-heartedly support it. Fact is however, that city council as well as the "brilliant" voters around town have already turned that into just what it is, nothing but a concept for San Antonio. It won't happen in the near future, which is funny seeing as how light rail actually costs less then roads nowadays.

I can see what would happen though if a light rail were to be built in SA, Southsiders would immediately complain that it doesn't go into their neighborhoods and it only supports the northern residents of the city.

I'm not really necessarily FOR toll roads either, but I would love to have them if it meant getting rid of the congestion currently being dealt with on the north side of town. I also think most of these residents would agree.

The problem here is, light rails will not be built (that is a for sure) so what is the alternative? Obviously the answer is improved roads that actually are funded by a foriegn consortium (not taxpayers money, this is often said without actually checking the facts) in which revenues brought in by tolls make way for future highway development throughout the city.
So, while you dream of a day when the voters and city council members have the intelligence to build a light rail system (won't happen) we'll go ahead and just fix what we have. By the way, these roads are inevitable, the cry baby bitches that petition against them are beating a dead horse. Unfortunately for the residents of the area, they will have to wait an extra five years now.

[2Blonde]

:lol at people that live in stone oak and think they are big shit. they just drive in big shit everyday of their miserable keep up with the jones' lives.
Why all the hate, Buck? Nobody in this topic said they were big shit, They said we're tired of driving in the increasing traffic up here. We live up here, pay our taxes, vote and have a right to bitch about it if we like. BTW, everyone in my house drives small cars. When we moved out there 6 1/2 years ago there was hardly any traffic so I think we earned the right to comment on it. Even though the traffic sucks I will be sad to move next year because it's nice area and I love the neighborhood and my neighbors. Overall it's a great community with poorly planned roads.

Most of the people that have businesses in the Stone Oak area actually live in Stone Oak so they are invested in the community. It makes for a friendly atmosphere. There are businesses here where people bring their kids and dogs to work with them on a regular basis. That's not something you see much anymore.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

It's true that the voters are to blame for not having a light rail. Shit, here in Austin, we ELECTED a city councilwoman who had already given us toll roads.

My beef with your line of thinking is that it is short-sighted to label "progressive" an expansion of the existing infrastructure. You see the benefit of a 10-15 minute reduction to your daily commute and say :"Let's PROGRESS!!" What you don't see is that adding highways to the existing infrastructure exacerbates the existing problem over the next 10-50 years. San Antonio is at a stage where L.A., Dallas and Houston were some years ago: faced with over-crowded roads because of ex-urban sprawl. My first hand experience in Dallas is that toll roads haven't eased congestion at all. They just can't keep up with the population explosion. Highways also push our communities farther and farther apart while polluting our drinking water and our air as more cars pack on to get to their new, uncrowded suburb built directly over the aquifer and 25, 50, 75 miles outside of the heart of the city.

Basically, you label the city planning model used in Los Angeles as "progressive." Irony at best. Devastating miscalculation at worst. If more people with good minds and good intentions like you really saw what increased highway construction brings in the long term, there would be AMPLE SUPPORT for a light rail. In the end, people like you are the cry baby bitches who say "let's just patch up what we have for the rest of my life and I don't care if it ruins this city because I'M PROGRESSIVE!"

[johnsmith]

It's true that the voters are to blame for not having a light rail. Shit, here in Austin, we ELECTED a city councilwoman who had already given us toll roads.

My beef with your line of thinking is that it is short-sighted to label "progressive" an expansion of the existing infrastructure. You see the benefit of a 10-15 minute reduction to your daily commute and say :"Let's PROGRESS!!" What you don't see is that adding highways to the existing infrastructure exacerbates the existing problem over the next 10-50 years. San Antonio is at a stage where L.A., Dallas and Houston were some years ago: faced with over-crowded roads because of ex-urban sprawl. My first hand experience in Dallas is that toll roads haven't eased congestion at all. They just can't keep up with the population explosion. Highways also push our communities farther and farther apart while polluting our drinking water and our air as more cars pack on to get to their new, uncrowded suburb built directly over the aquifer and 25, 50, 75 miles outside of the heart of the city.

Basically, you label the city planning model used in Los Angeles as "progressive." Irony at best. Devastating miscalculation at worst. If more people with good minds and good intentions like you really saw what increased highway construction brings in the long term, there would be AMPLE SUPPORT for a light rail. In the end, people like you are the cry baby bitches who say "let's just patch up what we have for the rest of my life and I don't care if it ruins this city because I'M PROGRESSIVE!"

We aren't talking about building any new highways, just improving the old ones that are already here. How would that promote sprawl? Furthermore, I thought I made it abundantly clear that light rail is not an option here, period. (putting a period in front of a "." seems a little redundant to me, but you get the point). The only solution is to fix the problem as it is now because we have no other options, except to do what the whiners want us to do and that is absolutely nothing. I think honestly that you and I would probably agree if we were to discuss this in person because our arguments would come out a little more clear from each of us.

[johnsmith]

Also, it's less the voters fault then it is the narrow minded jackasses that run this city. Just thought I'd throw that in there to defend my good name as a voter.

[ObiwanGinobili]

I would live in stone oak if emo worked in stone oak. then we would never have to leave.

like when we lived in Leon valley, emo worked in Leon valley - right across the street actually. And I worked in leon valley, and my dr. was there, and HEB was around the corner etc etc.
Traffic was a mother fucklign bitch. But everythign we needed for life was within a 5 block radius. We never went anywhere else in SA for 2 years.