Resolved: Tony Parker gets too much shit around here for his outside shooting

[ShoogarBear]

From the great nba.com hotzones page:

Shooting percentages during the regular season EXCLUDING the area immediately next to the hoop:

Manu Ginobili: 133 for 339, 39.2%
Tony Parker: 192 for 484, 39.7%

Discuss.

:smokin

[ShoogarBear]

Some more numbers for comparison:
Barry: 107/264 40.5%
Bowen: 179/421 42.5%
Finley: 235/601 39.1%
Udrich: 53/135 39.3%

[ShoogarBear]

And just for calibration:

Michael Redd: 403-1009, 39.9%
Ray Allen: 501-1162, 43.1%

[Nikos]

From the great nba.com hotzones page:

Shooting percentages during the regular season EXCLUDING the area immediately next to the hoop:

Manu Ginobili: 133 for 339, 39.2%
Tony Parker: 192 for 484, 39.7%

Discuss.

:smokin

The problem is Tony doesn't hit three pointers.

[Fabbs]

The problem is Tony doesn't hit three pointers.

Yep. That chart that shows how many points per shot would be more appropriate.
6 for 10 fgs (50%) = 12 pts
4 for 10 on treys = 12 pts

Darn World Games and Tonys finger. That's what he was gonna work on.
BTW Tony was great last reg season, career best. Just that adding a three would push him to the next level.

[E20]

It's his form. I mean it's so..............

[FromWayDowntown]

I think Tony Parker takes too much heat around here on every subject. Shooting, playmaking, not scoring enough, scoring too much, turning the ball over, not taking enough chances with the ball, defense -- you name it, someone has complained about Tony's shortcomings in that area.

Tony Parker is a kid and he's significantly improved some facet of his game every summer. He works his tail off; he's a ferocious competitor; he's got the respect of players and coaches across the NBA; he can be among the most dangerous players in the association. I don't really care what the numbers say. This sucker begins and ends with Tim Duncan, but the talent that Tony Parker brings to the Spurs table significantly improves this team's chances to win another title.

[RON ARTEST]

thats because he cant shoot. what do you want spurs fans to do, lie?

[Brutalis]

So what this thread has proven is not only can't Parker shoot, neither can Manu.

Nice.

[Kori Ellis]

So what this thread has proven is not only can't Parker shoot, neither can Manu.

Nice.

If those numbers mean they can't shoot, then according to this thread neither can Finley, Barry, Beno or Redd.

[mavs>spurs2]

If those numbers mean they can't shoot, then according to this thread neither can Finley, Barry, Beno or Redd.

What it means is that they can shoot, but they sometimes have poor shot selection.

[SequSpur]

Great Topic Shoog... not only can Manu not shoot, he has no brains either.

[ducks]

had tp not been hurt against mavs
spurs would have won the title



tony gets the blame for the loss
and manu always get the credit for the win here

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I think Tony Parker takes too much heat around here on every subject. Shooting, playmaking, not scoring enough, scoring too much, turning the ball over, not taking enough chances with the ball, defense -- you name it, someone has complained about Tony's shortcomings in that area.

Tony Parker is a kid and he's significantly improved some facet of his game every summer. He works his tail off; he's a ferocious competitor; he's got the respect of players and coaches across the NBA; he can be among the most dangerous players in the association. I don't really care what the numbers say. This sucker begins and ends with Tim Duncan, but the talent that Tony Parker brings to the Spurs table significantly improves this team's chances to win another title.

Amen brother. Well said.

Lay the freak off TP, please people. We are lucky to have him on our team.

[SequSpur]

Dude.. TP is the best player on the team. I've been saying this for years. One day you all are going to listen to me.

[ShoogarBear]

The numbers obviously don't mean that Parker is as good a shooter as Michael Redd, or even Manu. Clearly things like the percentage of threes and number of wide open looks play a role.

What is DOES say is given those issues and also taking into account shot selection, Tony is playing within himself. If he can't shoot as well as those guys, he's making up for it by taking smarter shots.

And it also means that people who say stupid shit like "Tony needs to get his jumper FG% up to 47%" have no idea what they're talking about. The greatest shooters in the NBA don't even hit 45% from outside the paint.

[orhe]

TP can shoot i just want it to be consistent and not disappear for a stretch... mind you last year was his best year :) and he'll just keep getting better

[nkdlunch]

"Tony Parker gets too much shit around here for his outside shooting "

as manu does for getting injured and Duncan for being so boring.

[Louis]

From the great nba.com hotzones page:

Shooting percentages during the regular season EXCLUDING the area immediately next to the hoop:

Manu Ginobili: 133 for 339, 39.2%
Tony Parker: 192 for 484, 39.7%

Discuss.

:smokin


Horrible shooters!!!

[Louis]

"Tony Parker gets too much shit around here for his outside shooting "

as manu does for getting injured and Duncan for being so boring.

The Truth hurts doesn't it?

[ObiwanGinobili]

From the great nba.com hotzones page:

Shooting percentages during the regular season EXCLUDING the area immediately next to the hoop:

Manu Ginobili: 133 for 339, 39.2%
Tony Parker: 192 for 484, 39.7%

Discuss.

:smokin

Shoog, don;t confuse people with numbers!

Don;t you understand?? TP will never be good enough! He will never measure up,. he was the biggest mistake we ever made, he's going down hill, he never reached his potential and never will... etc etc etc.

Tony was sopposed to be the Messiah and spurs fans are his Joan Collin-esque parents.

[Nikos]

Tony hasn't had very good luck in the playoffs for pretty much his entire career.

This season he did well considering his injuries -- but it seems that in almost every deciding series and in most playoff series in general he underachieves. He gets roasted at times because he is so erratic come playoff time, especially when you compare it to his regular season play.

I am not really sure why Tony is like this. It either is bad luck, or he just doesn't seem to be able to adjust or contribute when the lane is closed off?

Maybe he just had bad luck from 2003-2005? In 2006 he had an awesome regular season, not much to complain about at all. He clearly has improved since his first 3 seasons.

I am not so sure it is just his subpar long range shooting that does him in.

I really think he needs to dominate this year in the playoffs to be truly respected for the talent that he is. The criticism he gets has a lot less to do with his game stylistically and more to do with the fact that he is underachieved and played erratic in every single playoffs of his career.

[sprrs]

Tony hasn't had very good luck in the playoffs for pretty much his entire career.

This season he did well considering his injuries -- but it seems that in almost every deciding series and in most playoff series in general he underachieves. He gets roasted at times because he is so erratic come playoff time, especially when you compare it to his regular season play.

I am not really sure why Tony is like this. It either is bad luck, or he just doesn't seem to be able to adjust or contribute when the lane is closed off?

Maybe he just had bad luck from 2003-2005? In 2006 he had an awesome regular season, not much to complain about at all. He clearly has improved since his first 3 seasons.

I am not so sure it is just his subpar long range shooting that does him in.

I really think he needs to dominate this year in the playoffs to be truly respected for the talent that he is. The criticism he gets has a lot less to do with his game stylistically and more to do with the fact that he is underachieved and played erratic in every single playoffs of his career.

He had a pretty decent playoffs last year. Nothing Duncan-esque, but considering he's been known to dissapear in the playoffs, I was satisfied with his play.

[Kori Ellis]

He had a pretty decent playoffs last year. Nothing Duncan-esque, but considering he's been known to dissapear in the playoffs, I was satisfied with his play.

He actually had an awesome Kings series, but then he got hurt and didn't shoot that well or have any lift against the Mavs (though he still averaged 20ppg).

[Nikos]

He had a pretty decent playoffs last year. Nothing Duncan-esque, but considering he's been known to dissapear in the playoffs, I was satisfied with his play.

He was excellent vs the Kings. But the injuries seemed to keep him grounded in the Mavs series. He averaged 20ppg, but it was somewhat of a hollow 20 because the Mavs were so good offensively themselves -- thus he could have been more efficient. But same goes for pretty much everyone except Duncan. Manu was good vs Dallas -- better than anyone not named Dirk or Duncan -- but Manu was pretty bad in the Kings series with the exception of 1 awesome, and one good game.

What I am hoping is that if the Spurs matchup with a Dallas calibur team next season that Parker gets an efficient 20-24ppg (but the Spurs have to rebound and defend). But deep inside I am thinking if Tony played as well as he did in the regular season and was healthy -- the weaknesses would have been masked, and the Spurs would have won the series.

[nkdlunch]

The Truth hurts doesn't it?

not really. we have rings to cheer us up. How about you about your rockets and glassy Mcgrady?

[td4mvp21]

The Truth hurts doesn't it?

Where is that Irony troll?

[sprrs]

He actually had an awesome Kings series, but then he got hurt and didn't shoot that well or have any lift against the Mavs (though he still averaged 20ppg).



He was excellent vs the Kings. But the injuries seemed to keep him grounded in the Mavs series. He averaged 20ppg, but it was somewhat of a hollow 20 because the Mavs were so good offensively themselves -- thus he could have been more efficient. But same goes for pretty much everyone except Duncan. Manu was good vs Dallas -- better than anyone not named Dirk or Duncan -- but Manu was pretty bad in the Kings series with the exception of 1 awesome, and one good game.

What I am hoping is that if the Spurs matchup with a Dallas calibur team next season that Parker gets an efficient 20-24ppg (but the Spurs have to rebound and defend). But deep inside I am thinking if Tony played as well as he did in the regular season and was healthy -- the weaknesses would have been masked, and the Spurs would have won the series.

Yeah, he rocked in the Kings series.

I was takng into account the last two or so games against the Mavs, where his jumper was horrible. It's understandable, because he was injured, but I still cringed everytime he touched the ball.

[sandman]

The Truth hurts doesn't it?

And who on the Rockettes roster not named Yao grew a pair this last year?

Thought so.

Good thing you got that Greek and Coach K's b*tch now to make your team legit. :rolleyes


<"Hakeem took DRob to school in the '95 playoffs!" in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...>

[Louis]

And who on the Rockettes roster not named Yao grew a pair this last year?

Thought so.

Good thing you got that Greek and Coach K's b*tch now to make your team legit. :rolleyes


<"Hakeem took DRob to school in the '95 playoffs!" in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...>

I don't even want to go there...

[sandman]

And who on the Rockettes roster not named Yao grew a pair this last year?

Thought so.

Good thing you got that Greek and Coach K's b*tch now to make your team legit. :rolleyes


<"Hakeem took DRob to school in the '95 playoffs!" in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...>

I don't even want to go there...

You would be the first Rockette fan in the last 10 years that didn't! :lol

[dbestpro]

Outside shooting is not Tony's greatest weakness. With his ability to penetrate and score is assists per game should be off the chart, but Tony elects to always shoot. I guarantee if Tony could some how develop into a double digit per game assist point guard the Spurs will win the championship again and Tony would probably be considered the best point guard in the NBA.

[sandman]

Outside shooting is not Tony's greatest weakness. With his ability to penetrate and score is assists per game should be off the chart, but Tony elects to always shoot. I guarantee if Tony could some how develop into a double digit per game assist point guard the Spurs will win the championship again and Tony would probably be considered the best point guard in the NBA.

From what I can gather from last year's stats, there were only three guards that had better scoring AND assist stats than TP: Kobe, Dwayne and Joe Johnson. Considering that all three are the go-to guys for their respective teams, I think that TP is just where he needs to be. Not saying that any player can't improve their game, just that not having high assists does not mean he is failing in that area.

edit: there were a few players like Nash, Arenas and Billups that were almost exactly at the same level as TP in one category while being better in the other. Didn't want to split hairs over close stats.

[RC's Boss]

Outside shooting is not Tony's greatest weakness. With his ability to penetrate and score is assists per game should be off the chart, but Tony elects to always shoot. I guarantee if Tony could some how develop into a double digit per game assist point guard the Spurs will win the championship again and Tony would probably be considered the best point guard in the NBA.
1 Steve Nash , PHX 20 39.9 204 10.2 67 3.4 12.3 3.04
2 Jason Kidd , NJN 11 40.9 106 9.6 24 2.2 11.3 4.42
3 Kirk Hinrich , CHI 6 39.0 46 7.7 24 4.0 9.4 1.92
4 Andre Miller , DEN 5 36.4 36 7.2 16 3.2 9.5 2.25
5 Chauncey Billups , DET 18 39.2 117 6.5 43 2.4 8.0 2.72
6 T.J. Ford , MIL 5 32.3 32 6.4 16 3.2 9.5 2.0
7 LeBron James , CLE 13 46.5 76 5.8 65 5.0 6.0 1.17
8 Sam Cassell , LAC 12 33.7 69 5.8 28 2.3 8.2 2.46
9 Dwyane Wade , MIA 23 41.7 132 5.7 90 3.9 6.6 1.47
10 Gilbert Arenas , WAS 6 47.4 32 5.3 20 3.3 5.4 1.6
11 Vince Carter , NJN 11 40.9 58 5.3 26 2.4 6.2 2.23
12 Boris Diaw , PHX 20 39.8 104 5.2 55 2.8 6.3 1.89
13 Mike Bibby , SAC 6 42.6 31 5.2 18 3.0 5.8 1.72
13 Anthony Johnson , IND 6 40.3 31 5.2 14 2.3 6.2 2.21
15 Kobe Bryant , LAL 7 44.9 36 5.1 33 4.7 5.5 1.09
16 Lamar Odom , LAL 7 44.8 34 4.9 23 3.3 5.2 1.48
17 Shaun Livingston , LAC 12 27.6 57 4.8 23 1.9 8.3 2.48
18 Richard Jefferson , NJN 11 39.7 45 4.1 30 2.7 4.9 1.5
19 Earl Boykins , DEN 5 28.0 20 4.0 3 .6 6.9 6.67
19 Elton Brand , LAC 12 43.1 48 4.0 29 2.4 4.5 1.66
19 Larry Hughes , CLE 9 37.3 36 4.0 16 1.8 5.1 2.25
22 Jason Williams , MIA 23 29.8 90 3.9 36 1.6 6.3 2.5
23 Tony Parker , SAS 13 36.5 50 3.8 40 3.1 5.1 1.25
24 Jason Terry , DAL 22 38.4 83 3.8 44 2.0 4.7 1.89
25 * Andrew Bogut , MIL 5 34.4 17 3.4 8 1.6 4.8 2.12
26 Antonio Daniels , WAS 6 36.0 20 3.3 10 1.7 4.4 2.0
26 Stephen Jackson , IND 6 37.9 20 3.3 15 2.5 4.2 1.33
28 Tim Duncan , SAS 13 37.9 43 3.3 34 2.6 4.2 1.26
29 Ron Artest , SAC 5 39.6 15 3.0 5 1.0
How many double digit apg do you see?!?! One, DAMN ONE :madrun

[RC's Boss]

Every coach fears him, but the majority here ridicules him for not passing enough. Trust me, if he weren't playing the way POP WANTS him to play, we'd be looking for a starting pg not a backup!

[slayermin]

I thought TP shot well during the regular season with the game at Miami being his best. I was very optimistic about the playoffs. But instead of improving on his regular season accomplishments, he fell off a little.

But it's not TP's fault the Spurs lost to Dallas. If he can stay consistent and nominally improve his jumper, that might be enough for another title.

[Felonius Monk]

Horrible shooters!!!

However, both are better than Tracy McGrady at 37.3%.