Tiger Woods is the greatest athlete of our time.

[tlongII]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=2594788

Woods' greatness on display yet again at Ryder CupBy Gene Wojciechowski
ESPN.com
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STRAFFAN, Ireland -- "Tiger Woods is the greatest individual athlete of our time."

That's what I wrote Sunday, Aug. 20, the day Woods vaporized the PGA Championship field, went Tom Brady's jersey number on the majors, and then celebrated his third consecutive victory and 51st Tour win by … flying to Houston to pick up his new labradoodle puppy, Yogi! (Memo to Tiger: please tell me the labradoodle and dog name were Elin's idea.)



Andrew Redington/Getty Images
Tip of the cap: Woods is second to Sam Snead in career wins.Since then, Woods has stretched his PGA Tour win streak to five and put a choke chain around the money list lead. If he doesn't win the Tour's Player of the Year award it will only be because Pac-10 replay officials oversaw the balloting.

Now Woods is here at The K Club, site of the 2006 Ryder Cup. Not much is expected of him. Just carry the USA team against the favored Euros. You know, the usual.

Win or lose this week, Woods' golf legacy is as secure as a safety deposit box. Jack Nicklaus loyalists will argue the Golden Bear is the greatest golfer of all time until someone breaks his record of 18 major victories. Fair enough, except deep down I'm not sure even Nicklaus himself believes that.

Woods is the best the game has ever seen. He's the best any game has seen. Nothing has happened since that August day at Medinah Country Club to change my mind. If anything, I feel even better about the first line of this column, especially after he won two more tournaments after the PGA Championship (no post-major letdown for Eldrick).

Of course, back in August it took about Reggie Bush's 40-yard dash time before the e-mails began pouring into my Outlook mailbox. There were hundreds and hundreds of them. Most of the e-mailers wondered if my brain cells had been removed at birth. The angrier ones wanted to know if I'd like to chug some antifreeze, then chase it down with a shot of battery acid.

Sports fans, sports talk show hosts and sports columnists simply can't wrap their arms around the idea that a golfer -- and they say it in such a dismissive way -- can be the greatest individual athlete of our time. In fact, many of them barely consider Woods an athlete at all.

He doesn't run, jump, sweat, or even carry his own bag. That's the gist of the non-athlete argument. Of course, neither did John Kruk, but nobody seemed to mind. And don't even get me started about designated hitters.

Woods' swing speed is about 130 miles per hour. Yours isn't. Put a hockey stick in his hands and you wouldn't say a peep. But a golf club, and he's a non-athlete, eh?

You don't hit a golf ball as long and straight as Woods, who's all of 6-foot-1, 185 pounds, without being a world-class athlete. His ability to swing that hard and hit a ball that pure is as Angelina Jolie-gorgeous as Ryan Howard doing the same thing with a baseball.

On GolfDigest.com is an e-mail Q&A with Woods. A 14-year-old golfer asked Woods if he was ridiculed as a young golfer.

"Oh, yeah," wrote Woods. "They'd say, 'Golf is a wussy sport … non-athletic … takes no skill to play. The beauty of it is that I knew how difficult golf was."

It is difficult, exasperatingly so. If it wasn't, Michael Jordan would be on the PGA Tour. I'm not saying Woods could ever play another professional sport, but I am saying I don't see one former NBA, MLB, NHL, etc., star on the PGA Tour. However, I do see them shooting 91s at the Lake Tahoe celebrity tournament every year.

No, Woods doesn't jump. Neither did Larry Bird. You could barely slip a piece of typing paper under Bird's Converses when his feet left the ground. Big deal.

And, no, Woods doesn't carry his own bag. This is an issue why? When Albert Pujols hits a home run, he doesn't lug his bat around the bases with him. Baseball's equivalent of a caddie -- the bat boy -- picks it up and places it back in a container in the dugout. Hmmm.

Anybody who thinks Woods isn't an athlete probably thinks Dale Earnhardt Jr. isn't an athlete. After all, Junior just sits on his butt and people in fire suits hand him refreshments with a long pole. And then all he does is make a bunch of left turns, right?

Greatness isn't defined by how hard your sweat glands work, or whether you can run a 4.4 40. There are lots of bad football players who are fast and can soak a jersey. Greatness is about individual artistry, about separating yourself first from your peers, and then from everyone else in the sporting world.

Woods has done that. And he's done it in an individual sport that doesn't allow cheating or coaching during play. He's done it with 10-deep galleries that are close enough to tug at his shirt collar. And Woods doesn't have any teammates to bail him out when he's scuffling. There are no Tiger-aires.

What about Jim Thorpe, Dan Gable or Lance Armstrong? What about Roger Federer, Carl Lewis or Edwin Moses? Aren't they Woods' superior?

Sorry, but their level of individual dominance simply doesn't match what Woods has done, and will continue to do.

Woods is 30. You know why he's in such great shape? Weight lifting.

Lifting trophy, after trophy, after trophy.

[kobe_bryant]

nope

[ALVAREZ6]

Tiger Woods is extremely athletic.

[1Parker1]

I think it's really hard to say "who the greatest athlete of our time is." That's because it's hard to cross-compare across different sports. Jordan was Jordan. Federer is Federer. Lance is Lance. Each of those athletes were pheonomonal in their own way and in their own sport. They are amazing athletes who absolutely dominated their respective sports, the same way Woods is doing. So what makes Woods better than them exactly? Not that I'm saying they're all better than Woods either, I'm just saying I don't think you can say who the greatest athlete is, since its pretty much subjective.

[Extra Stout]

If you change the world "athlete" to "sportsman," the argument becomes a no-brainer.

"Athlete" connotes strength, speed, and stamina. Golf does not require those traits as much as other sports. It requires precision and strategy. It has a greater mental aspect than other sports. But other sports are more purely athletic endeavors, like track & field, or cross-country skiing, or basketball, or soccer.

[2centsworth]

If Tiger is the best then Willie Mosconi is second best.

[T Park]

strength, speed, and stamina. Golf does not require those traits as much as other sports


Golf doesn't require strength or stamina?

:lol

Okie doke.

[leemajors]

Golf doesn't require strength or stamina?

:lol

Okie doke.

he's not saying it doesn't at all. just not as much. golf is mostly a mental game. i think tiger is an incredible athlete, but the greatest of our time is pushing it a bit far. it wouldn't be out of the question to state that lance armstrong has more stamina and endurance than tiger woods - his sport demands more of it.

[T Park]

think tiger is an incredible athlete, but the greatest of our time is pushing it a bit far


Agreed.


it wouldn't be out of the question to state that lance armstrong has more stamina and endurance than tiger woods


Agreed.

IMO Lance Armstrong is the greatest athlete of our time.

Despite some people's silly reservations about competition and the "alleged" doping.

Amazing theres all these allegations and theres no proof.

[ShoogarBear]

Tiger IS athletic and golf IS difficult. That doesn't make Tiger the greatest athlete. People who make this argument have no logical leg to stand on. Tiddlywinks is difficult to master, too.

If you took Tiger vs. Michael in any sport besides golf or basketball, Tiger would get his clocked cleaned. Same for Tiger vs. almost any other elite player in other sports: A-Rod, Larry Bird, Ali, Armstrong, etc. etc.

I agree with ES, if "sportsman" is the term used, then there can be a good debate. Athlete? No way.

[tlongII]

I think you have to define greatest athlete as the one who has dominated his sport more than any other and also the individual's magnitude of exposure on the global stage. I think MJ, Lance, and Tiger are probably a class apart from all others, but I would give Tiger the edge. I believe he dominates golf more the MJ dominated hoops and more than Lance dominated cycling.

[Phenomanul]

He doesn't run, jump, sweat, or even carry his own bag. That's the gist of the non-athlete argument. Of course, neither did John Kruk, but nobody seemed to mind. And don't even get me started about designated hitters.

Who considers DH's athletes? Most of them are overweight and some even require pinch runners...



Woods' swing speed is about 130 miles per hour. Yours isn't. Put a hockey stick in his hands and you wouldn't say a peep. But a golf club, and he's a non-athlete, eh?
There is a difference... Hockey demands periods of all out sprints, change of directions, agility, balance (ice... hello?) coupled to the necessary skills of the sport.



You don't hit a golf ball as long and straight as Woods, who's all of 6-foot-1, 185 pounds, without being a world-class athlete. His ability to swing that hard and hit a ball that pure is as Angelina Jolie-gorgeous as Ryan Howard doing the same thing with a baseball.
Amazing skill does not equal amazing atleticism.



No, Woods doesn't jump. Neither did Larry Bird. You could barely slip a piece of typing paper under Bird's Converses when his feet left the ground. Big deal.
And yet he could rebound against more athletic players, and get by more athletic players to score... atleticism is not totally defined by one physical trait. Meaning: the fastest runner is not more athletic than the highest jumper, the longest jumper or vice versa.



And, no, Woods doesn't carry his own bag. This is an issue why? When Albert Pujols hits a home run, he doesn't lug his bat around the bases with him. Baseball's equivalent of a caddie -- the bat boy -- picks it up and places it back in a container in the dugout. Hmmm.
Not all positions in baseball require full out athleticism...

Tori Hunter > Albert Pujols (in terms of athleticism)
Albert Pujols > Tori Hunter (in terms of baseball power skill)



Anybody who thinks Woods isn't an athlete probably thinks Dale Earnhardt Jr. isn't an athlete. After all, Junior just sits on his butt and people in fire suits hand him refreshments with a long pole. And then all he does is make a bunch of left turns, right?

Umm I'm still undecided on this one... One thing I do know... the strain from fighting the wheel is harder than it appears to be.




Greatness isn't defined by how hard your sweat glands work, or whether you can run a 4.4 40. There are lots of bad football players who are fast and can soak a jersey. Greatness is about individual artistry, about separating yourself first from your peers, and then from everyone else in the sporting world.

Woods has done that. And he's done it in an individual sport that doesn't allow cheating or coaching during play. He's done it with 10-deep galleries that are close enough to tug at his shirt collar. And Woods doesn't have any teammates to bail him out when he's scuffling. There are no Tiger-aires.

But we are not defining 'Greatness' are we? With this statement the author is invariably confusing greatness with athleticism.



What about Jim Thorpe, Dan Gable or Lance Armstrong? What about Roger Federer, Carl Lewis or Edwin Moses? Aren't they Woods' superior?

Sorry, but their level of individual dominance simply doesn't match what Woods has done, and will continue to do.

Ummm Lance is up there too...



Woods is 30. You know why he's in such great shape? Weight lifting.

Lifting trophy, after trophy, after trophy.

I have upmost respect for Tiger's game. He is beyond incredible. That does not make him the best athlete in the world. I'm sorry.

[leemajors]

Babe Didrikson Zaharias is a example of an incredible athlete who utterly dominated several sports:

Between 1930 and 1932, Didrikson held American, Olympic, or world records in five different track-and-field events. She stunned the athletic world on July 16, 1932, with her performance at the national amateur track meet for women in Evanston, Illinois. Didrikson entered the meet as the sole member of the Golden Cyclone team and by herself won the national women's team championship by scoring thirty points. The Illinois Women's Athletic Club, which had more that twenty members, scored a total of twenty-two points to place second. In all, Didrikson won six gold medals and broke four world records in a single afternoon. Her performance was the most amazing feat by any individual, male or female, in the annals of track-and-field history. The outstanding performance at Evanston put Didrikson in the headlines of every sports page in the nation and made her one of the most prominent members of the United States Olympic team of 1932.
During the trip to Los Angeles for the Olympic Games, many of her teammates came to detest her, but her performance during the Olympiad made her a favorite among sportswriters and with the public. At Los Angeles, Didrikson won two gold medals and a silver medal, set a world's record, and was the co-holder of two others. She won the javelin event and the eighty-meter hurdles and came in second in the high-jump event amid a controversy which saw two rulings of the judges go against her. Didrikson came very close to winning three Olympic gold medals, which had never been accomplished before by a woman. She became the darling of the press, and her performance in Los Angeles created a springboard for Didrikson's lasting fame as an athlete.

then again, she's not from our time either.

[Extra Stout]

Golf doesn't require strength or stamina?

:lol

Okie doke.
Great reading comprehension there, Einstein.

[BeerIsGood!]

Is golf a sport? If so it's the only sport I can think of that I can play WHILE drinking beer (and not spill it or vomit).

Anyway, If you put Tiger in Football, Baseball, Basketball, Soccer, or any other sport he probably wouldn't even be college material (Not even D2). Meanwhile guys like Bo Jackson and Deon were Pro Athletes in Football and Baseball. To be among the best of the best in the world in TWO different sports is absolutely amazing. Golf is such a different animal that you can't compare it to other sports in terms of athleticism.

[Extra Stout]

I think you have to define greatest athlete as the one who has dominated his sport more than any other and also the individual's magnitude of exposure on the global stage. I think MJ, Lance, and Tiger are probably a class apart from all others, but I would give Tiger the edge. I believe he dominates golf more the MJ dominated hoops and more than Lance dominated cycling.
Again, you have just described what makes the greatest sportsman.

What would make the greatest athlete would be the sportsman whose exploits best demonstrate pure athletic ability.

[leemajors]

Is golf a sport? If so it's the only sport I can think of that I can play WHILE drinking beer (and not spill it or vomit).

Anyway, If you put Tiger in Football, Baseball, Basketball, Soccer, or any other sport he probably wouldn't even be college material (Not even D2). Meanwhile guys like Bo Jackson and Deon were Pro Athletes in Football and Baseball. To be among the best of the best in the world in TWO different sports is absolutely amazing. Golf is such a different animal that you can't compare it to other sports in terms of athleticism.

you can drink beer playing plenty of sports. rec softball leagues you can chug while on the bench, and nothing could really stop a pro baseball player drinking in the dugout between innings. you can bowl while drinking, the list goes on and on. it may not enhance your performance, but it can be done. playing golf in a cart with an ice chest is really almost playing a different game. walk 18 and you may be less inclined to drink, although they do have those handy cylindrical insulation sleeves that fit nicely in the long side pocket of a golf bag.

[tlongII]

Tiger IS athletic and golf IS difficult. That doesn't make Tiger the greatest athlete. People who make this argument have no logical leg to stand on. Tiddlywinks is difficult to master, too.

If you took Tiger vs. Michael in any sport besides golf or basketball, Tiger would get his clocked cleaned. Same for Tiger vs. almost any other elite player in other sports: A-Rod, Larry Bird, Ali, Armstrong, etc. etc.

I agree with ES, if "sportsman" is the term used, then there can be a good debate. Athlete? No way.

I don't agree with this at all. I see no evidence to indicate that Tiger would get his clock cleaned in all other sports. In fact I think Tiger would beat Michael in several such as track and field.

[BeerIsGood!]

you can drink beer playing plenty of sports. rec softball leagues you can chug while on the bench, and nothing could really stop a pro baseball player drinking in the dugout between innings. you can bowl while drinking, the list goes on and on. it may not enhance your performance, but it can be done. playing golf in a cart with an ice chest is really almost playing a different game. walk 18 and you may be less inclined to drink, although they do have those handy cylindrical insulation sleeves that fit nicely in the long side pocket of a golf bag.


Yeah, I was kind of saying that as a joke, but I agree with you. Do you agree that there is probably no way Tiger could compete on the professional level in athletic intensive sports like baseball, or very athletic intensive sports like basketball and football? Or even soccer?

[BeerIsGood!]

I don't agree with this at all. I see no evidence to indicate that Tiger would get his clock cleaned in all other sports. In fact I think Tiger would beat Michael in several such as track and field.
I've never seen Jordan sprint, but if you take them at the same age I don't think there is any way Tiger could come close in any events. Sprinting - No. Long Jump - Come on?? High Jump - No. Shot Put - Probably not. Hurdles - No. Distance running - maybe, but I've never even seen Tiger run at all, so therefore I'd be inclined to go with No. Almost every athletic endeavor involves running, jumping, or some form of intensive cardiovascular activity. Golf does not, and I've never seen any indication that Tiger can do any of these things better than me, much less a world class athlete.

[Phenomanul]

I don't agree with this at all. I see no evidence to indicate that Tiger would get his clock cleaned in all other sports. In fact I think Tiger would beat Michael in several such as track and field.


In their primes? I don't think so...

[leemajors]

In their primes? I don't think so...

maybe an event like the javelin, but it would be interesting to watch regardless.

[leemajors]

I've never seen Jordan sprint, but if you take them at the same age I don't think there is any way Tiger could come close in any events. Sprinting - No. Long Jump - Come on?? High Jump - No. Shot Put - Probably not. Hurdles - No. Distance running - maybe, but I've never even seen Tiger run at all, so therefore I'd be inclined to go with No. Almost every athletic endeavor involves running, jumping, or some form of intensive cardiovascular activity. Golf does not, and I've never seen any indication that Tiger can do any of these things better than me, much less a world class athlete.

i think what tlong is trying to say is that tiger is in world class shape - he is a workout freak and keeps himself in great shape. he could probably do well at something more cardiovascularly oriented, but to say he could beat jordan in a lot of track and field events is stretching it. michael is bigger, stronger, faster...

[BeerIsGood!]

i think what tlong is trying to say is that tiger is in world class shape - he is a workout freak and keeps himself in great shape. he could probably do well at something more cardiovascularly oriented, but to say he could beat jordan in a lot of track and field events is stretching it. michael is bigger, stronger, faster...
But remember, this Wojo...whatever guy stated that Woods is the greatest athlete PERIOD. He may be in great shape, but in sports like basketball, football, track, and soccer everyone is in great shape. To be the best of the best you have to be so much more than in great shape.

On a side note I think I recall hearing that Jackie Robinson was a National Champion sprinter, All American football player in college, and close to an All American Basketball player. I heard that baseball was his worst sport, and that he could have gone pro in 3 or 4 different sports. Not to mention he broke the color barrier and was able to perform with people yelling racial obsenities and swearing at him constantly. Tiger can't even take a damn shot if someone clicks a camera within 100 yards of the tee box. I'd take Jackie over Tiger as an athlete any day. Hell, I'd take 1/5 of Jackie's athleticism over Tiger in this regard.

[leemajors]

But remember, this Wojo...whatever guy stated that Woods is the greatest athlete PERIOD. He may be in great shape, but in sports like basketball, football, track, and soccer everyone is in great shape. To be the best of the best you have to be so much more than in great shape.

On a side note I think I recall hearing that Jackie Robinson was a National Champion sprinter, All American football player in college, and close to an All American Basketball player. I heard that baseball was his worst sport, and that he could have gone pro in 3 or 4 different sports. Not to mention he broke the color barrier and was able to perform with people yelling racial obsenities and swearing at him constantly. Tiger can't even take a damn shot if someone clicks a camera within 100 yards of the tee box. I'd take Jackie over Tiger as an athlete any day. Hell, I'd take 1/5 of Jackie's athleticism over Tiger in this regard.

wojo is a scrub, i'm definitely not trying to rationalize his wackness. :lol

[tlongII]

Earl Woods felt that Tiger would have been a world class track athlete if he chose that sport.

[BeerIsGood!]

Every pop warner dad thinks his kid could have been a world class athlete. Tiger is clearly on his way to being the greatest golfer of all time, no doubt. I just don't see world class athlete when I see him. I've seen him in person, and I just can't imagine that guy running a 5 minute mile or 100m in sub 10 seconds. If he won a National Championship as a sprinter at Stanford, then maybe.

[cherylsteele]

Is golf a sport? If so it's the only sport I can think of that I can play WHILE drinking beer (and not spill it or vomit).
I guess you have never been to the bowling alley lately huh?
:lol

[BeerIsGood!]

I guess you have never been to the bowling alley lately huh?
:lol
I go bowling occassionally, but I would never, NEVER consider bowling a sport. Bowling is a recreational activity akin to billiards.

[Phenomanul]

I go bowling occassionally, but I would never, NEVER consider bowling a sport. Bowling is a recreational activity akin to billiards.


They are games...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Its obvious that what the person who started this thread meant was "sportsman" rather than "athlete". The people who continue to argue for Tiger being the greatest "athlete" in history don't have a logical leg to stand on. First they claim Tiger is the greatest "athlete" because he dominates golf so profusely, which is obviously what makes him a great sportsman, not athlete, and then when this is pointed out to them they revert to "well... but Tiger could have been a great track athlete if he wanted to". Are we talking what he is, or what he could have been??

Tiger is on track to becoming the greatest golfer to ever play the sport, this I don't think anyone can argue with. But golf does NOT require great athletic prowess.