Beno's minutes: Will he get his shot this year?

[wildbill2u]

Let's talk about Beno's place in the rotation. Some folks like his potential and others (including POP maybe?) only seem to remember his problems facing the Detroit full-court press two years ago.

I hear rumors about his work ethic (weight problem?). Maybe Kori can fill us in about that.

This has to be his make or break year with the Spurs. Will he get enough minutes in the rotation to be a reliable and effective substitute or will the Spurs look to Vaughn or a trade?

[TDMVPDPOY]

only team he has problem against are teams that actually play defence, which is only the pistons only. He seems to do very well against other teams, and he was superb durin his rookie season, hell he outperformed brent barry. i dunno what else can you ask more of him.

last season with nve was stupid, we didnt even really need him to teach beno anything, the person he needed to teach was brent barry, scared of takin shots for sum reason.

i still want beno to take his head out his ass, shed a few kilos and get back into the rotation. what we dont need is parker increasing his minutes or barry stealin benos time.

[Zunni]

You'll have an indication by the option year pickup. The Spurs must pick up his year 4 option before his 3rd season, which will be the end of this October. If they don't, you can pretty much believe they may be going in another direction.

[boutons_]

JV has been, like Elson, invisible in his entire career:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jacque_vaughn/index.html?nav=page

If Pop doesn't give Beno development PT ahead of JV, Beno as a Spur will be finished. Beno might even be finished as an NBA player, headed back to Europe.

[ChumpDumper]

Let's talk about Beno's place in the rotation. Some folks like his potential and others (including POP maybe?) only seem to remember his problems facing the Detroit full-court press two years ago.I completely forgot about that. I only remember his problems facing the Chuck Hayes press four months ago.
I hear rumors about his work ethic (weight problem?). Maybe Kori can fill us in about that.I don't know what needs to be filled in -- Beno's conditioning leaves alot to be desired.
This has to be his make or break year with the Spurs. Will he get enough minutes in the rotation to be a reliable and effective substitute or will the Spurs look to Vaughn or a trade?Will he be a reliable and effective enough substitute to get minutes? As I said before, if he gets beat out by Vaughn, he's finished as a Spur. I do think the Spurs will exercise his option -- not much reason against it at this point. The rest is up to him.

[angel_luv]

I really hope that Coach Popovich gives Beno minutes and a legitimate chance to prove himself this year.
I'm confident Beno will make good use of the time.

[jman3000]

i'm actually a pretty big beno fan. i think he has a nice shot and his game fits the 2nd pg role pretty good. nominally i'd like to have a pure pg as a backup, but having one that can hit the 3 with regularity and provide some semblance of offense isn't too bad either.

[jman3000]

he needs to stay away from my friends though :madrun

[djohn14]

I want Beno to do great,but I think JV will beat him out.

[Bruno]

I think that Pop and FO reasoning this summer about the backup PG spot was :
- Beno is a quite talented player (just look at his rookie year). He has the level to be a good backup PG.
- We have biggest needs than a backup PG. After filling these needs, we won't have enough money to get a clearly better backup PG than Beno.
- Beno isn't a reliable player for the moment. If he becomes the main PG backup, we need to have a solid 3rd string PG who can be the main backup if Beno struggles.

=> We will sign a solid vet who agrees to sign for the min and who can play 12 solid minutes per game if Beno struggles.

Vaughn fill that description :
- He is solid on both ends of the court : good defense and take care of the ball.
- He has a lot of experience and can become the main backup PG even in the middle of a playoff serie.
- He is good enough to be the backup PG. Even if he is a limited players, he has played at least 15 mpg for 6 years.

To me the PG situation is very simple : Tony is the starter, Beno is the backup and Vaughn is the guy who will only be used if something goes wrong.

[Bruno]

You'll have an indication by the option year pickup. The Spurs must pick up his year 4 option before his 3rd season, which will be the end of this October. If they don't, you can pretty much believe they may be going in another direction.

I don't see Spurs not picking his option : It's only $1.7M.

[bdictjames]

I dont see much potential in JV. He cant shoot the three and is undersized. Plus he's not adjusted to the Spurs trademark defense. I think I'd put Beno on the 2nd pg slot

[ChumpDumper]

Are you saying Beno plays trademark Spur defense?

[midgetonadonkey]

Doesn't Beno carry a purse?

[BeerIsGood!]

When Beno sees a full court press his eyes get wide. If he's in the game other teams are gonna go old school UNLV on our ass.

[BeerIsGood!]

Are you saying Beno plays trademark Spur defense?
The trademark Spurs defense that let every Mavs guard kiss the glass as they laid the ball in - Yes, he does.

[angel_luv]

he needs to stay away from my friends though :madrun

To ask or not to ask... :lol

[withcheese]

this whole situation is weird.

jauque vaughn is definitely NOT a good #1 backup PG...but neither was NVE, and he got 15.2 mpg in 65 games compared to Beno's 11.1 in 53 games. Playoffs was even worse: NVE got 11.1 mpg in 12 games compared to Beno's 6.7 in 7 games.

lets all just agree that pop was an idiot for giving NVE beno's minutes in most situations.

whose to say that pop wont make the same mistake this year? another verteran PG in the twilite of his career...it seems like beno is getting the malik treatment, having his minutes cut drastically for some reason NOT related from his play on the court.

this is really the only beef i have with pop since '03...the beno/malik thing.

i think beno will remain in the doghouse this year, and jauque vaughn will get a ton of unproductive minutes that he doesnt deserve, to benos detriment.

if beno becomes the number 1 backup behind parker, i will be pleasantly surprised. if he doesnt, as i suspect, i will be disappointed.

[ChumpDumper]

If Beno doesn't drop his purse when Chuck Hayes looks at him, the job is his.

[Bruno]

lets all just agree that pop was an idiot for giving NVE beno's minutes in most situations.

whose to say that pop wont make the same mistake this year? another verteran PG in the twilite of his career...

Do you compare Jacque Vaughn to NVE ? :lol
NVE was a great player and that's why he gets playtime over Beno. I agree that it was a mistake because NVE was awful last year.
Jacque Vaughn has never been a great player. Pop will only use him over Beno if he is better and if Beno plays at his level, Vaughn won't be better.

[Bruno]

If Beno doesn't drop his purse when Chuck Hayes looks at him, the job is his.

I won't blame Beno for something that happened in the 05-06 year.
The situation was really unfair for him : after a very good rookie year (rookie of the month + rookie game at the AS), Spurs' FO have decided that he will be a garbage player with no hope to be a rotation player for his sophomore year.

[ducks]

is it pop's fault and company that beno has a bad work ethic?

[Bruno]

is it pop's fault and company that beno has a bad work ethic?

Why do you say that he has a bad work ethic ?

[BeerIsGood!]

I think because he came to camp overweight and out of shape. Also because he spends his free time getting lit in area bars.

[Bruno]

I won't call that "bad work ethic".
Some players have more difficulties to be in great shape. A lot of players are overweight and have a good work ethic.

If beno work ethic was bad, Spurs would have traded him during the 05 summer while he has a quite good trade value.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think it's exactly bad work ethic either. I just think that for a while (and it might be still true) he apparently wasn't in good shape. Point guards need to be really fit. He isn't/wasn't. Whether that's from overeating, overdrinking, not working out enough, or a combination of all of that, who knows.

But I don't blame Pop for not using him a lot last season. I think he would have gotten a chance in the playoffs if he would have shown in the regular season that he could handle the press. He didn't.

What's weird is ... did Beno always have problems against the press even in Europe? Because almost any point guard in the league can handle it ... even the scrubs, so I don't know why he can't.

I want him to get a shot this year and I think he will, but he needs to get in serious shape. And people shouldn't write off Vaughn as being in the "twilight of his career" or compare him to NVE. Vaughn is only 31.

[BeerIsGood!]

I don't think it's exactly bad work ethic either. I just think that for a while (and it might be still true) he apparently wasn't in good shape. Point guards need to be really fit. He isn't/wasn't. Whether that's from overeating, overdrinking, not working out enough, or a combination of all of that, who knows.

But I don't blame Pop for not using him a lot last season. I think he would have gotten a chance in the playoffs if he would have shown in the regular season that he could handle the press. He didn't.

What's weird is ... did Beno always have problems against the press even in Europe? Because almost any point guard in the league can handle it ... even the scrubs, so I don't know why he can't.

I want him to get a shot this year and I think he will, but he needs to get in serious shape. And people shouldn't write off Vaughn as being in the "twilight of his career" or compare him to NVE. Vaughn is only 31.

I have a feeling PG isn't going to be much of a problem position for the Spurs this coming year. I feel much more uneasy about the center position and depth at forward than I do at PG. Beno has the tools, he just needs to get over his mental issues with handling the press and running the offense smoothly. I think sometimes Pop's demeanor isn't too helpful with someone who is having a mental block about an area of their game. But then again, how long can they wait for him to step up and control the ball effectively??

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

C Oberto/Elson/Butler-Good
PF Duncan/Boner/Horry-Good
SF Bowen/Williams-???
SG Manu/Finley/Barry-Good with or without Brent.
PG Tony/Beno/Vaughn-Good
The only place I have problems with is at small forward. I don't feel right with Williams as our backup. We need to get rid of him and Barry. Their contracts combined is around 8.5-9 million dollars. Who can we get as a backup small forward worth 9 mil with the other team willing to have Brent and Eric?

[boutons_]

"Vaughn is only 31."

it's not his age. In 9 seasons, he hasn't run up any AST, PTS, or MPG. A non-factor. Even Rasho had more promise and better numbers coming from Min than JV.

I'm always ready to be pleasantly surprised, but this guy's career predicts poorly. At 31, will he finally make a contribution? hmmm....

[BERSERK]

I hate to say it to all the Beno fans but there is only so much time one can say about someone having potential. Beno had his chance the past three years and he has yet to deliver as being considered Spurs point guard ready starter. IF Parker got hurt, Beno would not save our season. Poppovich is better off using Beno as trade bait.

[withcheese]

I don't think it's exactly bad work ethic either. I just think that for a while (and it might be still true) he apparently wasn't in good shape. Point guards need to be really fit. He isn't/wasn't. Whether that's from overeating, overdrinking, not working out enough, or a combination of all of that, who knows.

But I don't blame Pop for not using him a lot last season. I think he would have gotten a chance in the playoffs if he would have shown in the regular season that he could handle the press. He didn't.

What's weird is ... did Beno always have problems against the press even in Europe? Because almost any point guard in the league can handle it ... even the scrubs, so I don't know why he can't.

I want him to get a shot this year and I think he will, but he needs to get in serious shape. And people shouldn't write off Vaughn as being in the "twilight of his career" or compare him to NVE. Vaughn is only 31.

that's a chicken-or-the-egg kinda thing...did he show that he couldnt handle the press in the regular season because he really can't and then his minutes got cut? or did he show that he couldnt handle getting d'ed up hard by billups and lindsey hunter and maybe once or twice during the '06 season, then got relegated to the bench because pop wouldn't give him another chance?

in other words, can we really say that he sucks at bringing the ball up the court based on the limited amount of PT he's gotten over the last year? it would be like parking bowen on the bench for half the season, then telling him to go in for one play to shoot a corner three pointer...if he missed it, you people (and pop) would be calling him a shitty three point shooter, but you haven't seen enough to really tell.

And about using Beno as trade bait...you kill his value by not playing him. Look what happened to Darko...on draft night, the #2 pick could have gotten an all-star in return. Two years of bench warming, and it turned into Kelvin fucking Cato. sticking beno in deep freeze and using him as trade bait is a horrible idea...if your going to try to get value for him, give him a ton of minutes especially against shitty defense teams so he can show off his three.

i hate to jump all over beno's jock because i don't really like him all that much and he kinda looks like a pussy, but shit, pop has given this guy a raw deal...and if he loses minutes to jacque fucking vaughn, i hope the spurs trade his ass to some team that will give him some burn and actually appreciate his skills and give him a chance to grow...just like darko. and that looks like it might work out pretty well for the magic.

[Kori Ellis]

or did he show that he couldnt handle getting d'ed up hard by billups and lindsey hunter and maybe once or twice during the '06 season, then got relegated to the bench because pop wouldn't give him another chance?

I firmly believe that if Beno didn't almost individually lose that game against the Rockets near the end of the regular season by not being able to handle the press by a scrubs in garbage time, then he would have played more in the postseason.

[withcheese]

I firmly believe that if Beno didn't almost individually lose that game against the Rockets near the end of the regular season by not being able to handle the press by a scrubs in garbage time, then he would have played more in the postseason.

i hear that, but:

1. did he play that poorly because he didnt play any meaningful minutes all season and didnt have a rythm, and:

2. would he have really gotten substantial minutes in the playoffs after a full season of van exel being the number 2 pg in the rotation, regardless of his play at the end of the season?

[Kori Ellis]

i hear that, but:

1. did he play that poorly because he didnt play any meaningful minutes all season and didnt have a rythm, and:


He shouldn't need rhythm to handle the press. It's a basic skill that any point guard who makes it all the way to the NBA should have.




2. would he have really gotten substantial minutes in the playoffs after a full season of van exel being the number 2 pg in the rotation, regardless of his play at the end of the season?

Neither one of them were going to get "substantial" minutes ... NVE only played 11 mpg in the playoffs. But I think Beno would have gotten some more minutes if he showed anything. Pop didn't really want to be using NVE ... his elbow was in bad shape.

It just would have been nice when Tony's legs were destroyed in the Mavs series if someone could have given him a little break.

Anyway, Vaughn played 15mpg last season behind Kidd. Hopefully he doesn't plays much less than that here. It's time for Beno to do something.

If he doesn't do anything the first half of the season, they should keep trying to package him with Barry and ship him off.

[withcheese]

If he doesn't do anything the first half of the season, they should keep trying to package him with Barry and ship him off.

agreed, but i think pop should give him a REAL chance to prove himself, not like what he did with malik in 04-05, which was park his ass on the bench for games at a time, then randomly put him in a game, then yank him after 30 seconds if he made one small mistake, yell at him like a red headed step child, and then not play him again for another few games.

i guarantee you if pop pulls that kind of shit with beno, he wont make positive contributions...its a self-fulfilling prophecy...

and about handling a press, when youve got so much pressure from your coach not to fuck up, and the only thing thats going through your head is that your nba career will be trash if you do fuck up, a lot of players WILL fuck up against a press since that shit does actually take nerves of steal when their really after your ass. ive seen parker throw away passes in three quarters court, and sjax used to do it CONSTANTLY...pop came down hard on them, and they produced, but maybe beno needs more of a mo cheeks approach than a bob knight approach to perform well...diffrent strokes for diffrent folks, ya know? and pop should be able to make minor adjustments in his coaching style to account for the (sometimes fragile) psyches of his players.

[ChumpDumper]

I can't think of any other NBA point guard that Chuck Hayes owned last season.

Can you?

[Bruno]

agreed, but i think pop should give him a REAL chance to prove himself, not like what he did with malik in 04-05, which was park his ass on the bench for games at a time, then randomly put him in a game, then yank him after 30 seconds if he made one small mistake, yell at him like a red headed step child, and then not play him again for another few games.


Check the facts :
- Malik played in all 50 games that Spurs played in 04-05 before they traded him.
- Malik played only 5 times under 10 min while he average 17.2min/game.

Malik wasn't really in Pop's doghouse, he gets quite consistent playtime given that he was a bench player and that Spurs signed Horry.
He only played 17.2min/game because Spurs had a lot of quality bigs (Duncan/Rasho/Horry) and because he just wasn't good enough to get more playtime.
And Pop has yelled too a lot on Parker.

[Bruno]

I can't think of any other NBA point guard that Chuck Hayes owned last season.

Can you?

Can you think at a player that when your team is up by 1 with 27 second left and 24 left on the clock (that is to say when the only thing you had to do is to take a bad shoot at the end of the clock and then defend 2 seconds), turn the ball over and allow the opposite team to win the game ?

Can you think at a player that when your team is up by 3 with 32 second left do a foul on a layup while the coach have said "NO FOUL, NO FOUL" ?

People have accepted that Manu (who is far more older than Beno) has lost last year his confidence because of nagging injuries/Artest..
People should accept that Beno has lost too his confidence in 05-06 because Spur's FO have decided that he will only be a garbage player for this year after a good rookie season.

Beno will always have some difficulties against a strong defensive pressure because he is slow, "fat", has short arms and isn't the greatest ballhandler of the world. But with some confidence, some help from his teammates, some practice and some conditioning, he will be able to handle defensive pressure.

[ChumpDumper]

People have accepted that Manu (who is far more older than Beno) has lost last year his confidence because of nagging injuries/Artest.Hmm. I never thought that at all. Manu is hard on himself. That's all I've seen.
People should accept that Beno has lost too his confidence in 05-06 because Spur's FO have decided that he will only be a garbage player for this year after a good rookie season.The Houston game was his chance. He failed. The fairness of the opportunity can be debated but it's clear he was put to the test that day, and JVG set up a defense pretty much as any coach in the playoffs would have. The results speak for themselves. I can't bring myself to think any other respectable coach would have promoted Beno in the playoffs after that debacle.
Beno will always have some difficulties against a strong defensive pressure because he is slow, "fat", has short arms and isn't the greatest ballhandler of the world. But with some confidence, some help from his teammates, some practice and some conditioning, he will be able to handle defensive pressure.I actually think he's a very good ballhandler. He can't help his short arms, but that's mostly a problem for defense. His conditioning is a point of real consternation for me -- if a guy plays the most athletically demanding position in the most athletically demanding sport around, doesn't it make sense to maximize his conditioning? I'm not expecting him to keep up with Parker or anything, I only expect him to do the best with what he's got.

[Bruno]

The Houston game was his chance. He failed. The fairness of the opportunity can be debated but it's clear he was put to the test that day, and JVG set up a defense pretty much as any coach in the playoffs would have. The results speak for themselves.

So, there is no need to explain why I think that Beno need another oportunity to show what he is able to do.



I can't bring myself to think any other respectable coach would have promoted Beno in the playoffs after that debacle.

Did I say that beno should have played in last years playoffs ?



if a guy plays the most athletically demanding position in the most athletically demanding sport around, doesn't it make sense to maximize his conditioning?

Beno has started last season knowing that he won't play. It's difficult to maximize you conditioning for not playing.
I don't say that Beno is perfect but circumstances were really hard for him last year.

[ChumpDumper]

So, there is no need to explain why I think that Beno need another oportunity to show what he is able to do.Sure. That's what this season is all about.
Did I say that beno should have played in last years playoffs ?Others have in this thread. That was for everyone.
Beno has started last season knowing that he won't play.Well, I'm not completely sold on that.
It's difficult to maximize you conditioning for not playing.Melvin Sanders was in awesome shape. Still is, last I saw him. So were Kevin Willis and Tony Massenburg and Mike Wilks when they played for that matter. I'm just from the school of thought that bench players always have to be ready. Beno would do well to follow the example of those players. It can certainly help a player stick in the league.

[Kibic]

He shouldn't need rhythm to handle the press. It's a basic skill that any point guard who makes it all the way to the NBA should have.

:)
I remember a game where 12 (top) NBA players loose the game against 12 non NBA players.
Well ...if thay "make it all the way to the NBA" how couldn't they handle 12 Greeks?

[Kori Ellis]

:)
I remember a game where 12 (top) NBA players loose the game against 12 non NBA players.
Well ...if thay "make it all the way to the NBA" how couldn't they handle 12 Greeks?

That's a bad comparison that doesn't really make sense. What does a bad team with bad coaching, no defense, no playbook, etc have to do with an individual basketball player?

I was asking a serious question about Beno. Has he always had problems with the press at all levels in Europe? Or did he just get rattled by Detroit and it become a problem from then on? It would be weird to me if he always had problems with the press and scouts didn't know it. Or did they? (I didn't pay any attention to Beno before the draft)

[Bruno]

I'm just from the school of thought that bench players always have to be ready. Beno would do well to follow the example of those players.

Who isn't from this school ?

Beno could have been in great shape and ready to play last year but he wasn't. He isn't perfect and has weaknesses like other players. In 04-05, he was in a good enough shape to be a good backup PG. Why wouldn't he be able to be again in that shape in 06-07 if circumstances are the same than in 04-05 ?

[Kibic]

That's a bad comparison that doesn't really make sense. What does a bad team with bad coaching, no defense, no playbook, etc have to do with an individual basketball player?

I was asking a serious question about Beno. Has he always had problems with the press at all levels in Europe? Or did he just get rattled by Detroit and it become a problem from then on? It would be weird to me if he always had problems with the press and scouts didn't know it. Or did they? (I didn't pay any attention to Beno before the draft)
Sorry. While in Europe and in comparation with his age (U18, U20) and later, Beno was better than TP. TP today desn't look to bad. But boy he get his chance. I don't remember nothing special regarding Beno and handeling pressure. At the begining he did not shoot to much. He is still very young an I think he is that kind of person who could use some tutoring from older players.

[Kori Ellis]

Thanks. I think Beno has great court vision and a sweet shot. I hope he develops into something special here.

When Beno was in Europe, I know he got hurt a few times but was he a player that worked hard and was in good physical shape? Did he have a reputation of a "party" guy? Because here I think he is gaining that reputation.

[Slomo]

I was asking a serious question about Beno. Has he always had problems with the press at all levels in Europe? Or did he just get rattled by Detroit and it become a problem from then on? It would be weird to me if he always had problems with the press and scouts didn't know it. Or did they? (I didn't pay any attention to Beno before the draft)I don't remember Beno having any problems with the press while playing in Europe, actually I didn't notice any problems during the WC this year, so it's something that confuses me.


When Beno was in Europe, I know he got hurt a few times but was he a player that worked hard and was in good physical shape? Did he have a reputation of a "party" guy? Because here I think he is gaining that reputation.Beno did set the record straight on his injuries and other problems he had during his professional career in Europe (combination of bad manager and not always honest clubs with some minor injuries to top it off) in an interview a while ago (I remember it was posted on ST.com too). I'm pretty sure his motivation last year wasn't very good after seeing KVE getting his playing time despite not playing well - it's not an excuse (I have very low tolerance for lazyness), I'm just pretty sure it bothered him.

As for the "party guy" reputation you know who you should ask :) - *cough*hiphoopers*cough* although I seriously doubt he'll spill the beans http://www.cikava.com/gallery/albums/Emoticons/wink.gif

[sendman]

I hate to say it to all the Beno fans but there is only so much time one can say about someone having potential. Beno had his chance the past three years and he has yet to deliver as being considered Spurs point guard ready starter. IF Parker got hurt, Beno would not save our season. Poppovich is better off using Beno as trade bait.
Dear sir!

Beno is with the Spurs for two (2) seasons, how you were able to evaluate his game with Spurs for three (3) years is beyond me. Oh, wait I know, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. :spless:
In the first season he was outstanding rookie, and last year he was benched for NVE.

And who is that Poppovich guy? :nutkick:

[Kibic]

Thanks. I think Beno has great court vision and a sweet shot. I hope he develops into something special here.

When Beno was in Europe, I know he got hurt a few times but was he a player that worked hard and was in good physical shape? Did he have a reputation of a "party" guy? Because here I think he is gaining that reputation.
As I know, he was allways a workoholic. But when you come to NBA from Europe, all skiny, they say to you you have to gain some mass. (In my opinion stupid). They have programs....food, training... I think Gino would not be better if he get another 10 kg. If speed is his best advantage.

[ShoogarBear]

Beno is getting the biggest free ride from Spur fans of any bench player in the history of the team.

He would get playing time if he worked better at dealing with pressure. There's no evidence that he's working all that hard at improving his game. Yet it's "Oh, that mean Pop, why won't he play Beno".

[gospursgojas]

Please....

Guys, give up on Beno already, like the rest of us have.

[BERSERK]

Dear sir!

Beno is with the Spurs for two (2) seasons, how you were able to evaluate his game with Spurs for three (3) years is beyond me. Oh, wait I know, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. :spless:
In the first season he was outstanding rookie, and last year he was benched for NVE.

And who is that Poppovich guy? :nutkick:

Think of that for a moment. NVE got more playing time than Beno. NVE had a bad elbow, was out of shape, and had a bad shot selection. Pop chose NVE over Beno despite all the bad characteristics of NVE. If that's not telling you that Beno sucks, I don't know what will.

[wildbill2u]

I always thought some of his strengths were court sense and passing. It's amazed me that he can't pass out of the trap press. Of course, you have to have some teammates who come back and get open.

[angel_luv]

Please....

Guys, give up on Beno already, like the rest of us have.


Never. :)

Beno rocks! :hat

[ducks]

Never. :)

Beno rocks! :hat
rocks what

[withcheese]

I didn't say Beno should be playing the playoffs
Others have in this thread. That was for everyone.

im not saying that he should have played in just the playoffs...im saying he should have been number 2 off the bench for the entire season. when youre at the end of the regular season and not let him play into the rotation all year, i agree that that is absolutely NOT the time to start giving him heavy burn. i think that pop should have done the ENTIRE SEASON differently from the pg position.

about conditioning, i dont know how much of a factor this was in pop's decision. i dont know how much of a factor this is in reality. i think maybe getting on the court and running your ass up and down for 13 minutes a night would get you in pretty good shape, especially when your only 23, but who knows.

about houston...jesus guys, your placing too much value on one performance in one game under difficult circumstances. why dont you want to bench ginobili after he fucked up and basically cost the spurs a title? that was a thousand times worse than some bullshit game against a lottery team, so why doesnt he deserve to be benched? the answer is this: you know, we ALL know, he is better than that. Well, I think the same is true with Beno...you look at his rookie year, and we know that he's better than a fuck up against that cost the spurs what turned out to be a meaningless game. its not fair to classify him as a player based on a small amount of errors when there is a much larger body of positives to balance those out...just like with manu

and bruno, fuck, i dont know what i was thinking about malik. i really thought he was a no show in that season before he got traded, but the numbers belie my contentions. i still think malik was in the doghouse and his numbers are artificially inflated because of duncan's early december ankle injury and big minutes against shitty teams (orlando 12/15, orlando 12/22, portland 1/24, washington 2/9, new orleans 2/16), but comparing him to what is happening to beno is wrong. i still think beno is getting fucked wasting away on the bench in favor of shitty veterans, but your right, pop is being MUCH worse to beno than he was to malik

[withcheese]

also about this Houston game that everyone is using to dog on beno:

yes beno travelled there near the end of that game, a costly turnover at the time. and yes, that foul on alston or whoever it was was a bad play. but shit, the guy hit like 5 of 6 free throws in the last half of the fourth, and that pass that got picked off near the end wasn't his fault, it was the inbounders (oberto? horry?). i mean, he almost coughed up that game, but part of the reason why they were in it was because of him making his FTs and finding his teammates.

i think pop was being too hard on him because he got trapped on a press. that's not all the pgs fault anyway, as anyone who has played organized ball will tell you....if you don't get support from your teammates when you get trapped, more often than not you'll cough up the ball. i dont have a photographic memory so i cant tell you if it was all of beno or not, but i think some people (cough cough kori cough) might be too quick to label beno a shitty pg against the press when in reality, he just isn't some parker or speedy who can beat a press on their quickness alone.

[angel_luv]

rocks what

My basketball world :)

[ducks]

oh

[sendman]

My basketball world :)
He,he,he! My homies are covered. They have their guardian Angel_luv! :angel :princess

[angel_luv]

He,he,he! My homies are covered. They have their guardian Angel_luv! :angel :princess

Angel patrol. :)

[BeerIsGood!]

I seriously do not think that Pop wanted to play NVE in the playoffs last year. He wanted to keep NVE on the bench, but he had:

1) A starting All-Star PG with bad wheels
2) The other PG was somewhat out of shape and never showed he could run the offense efficiently without turning the ball over.

Beno had his chance, and luckily for him he has another one this year. What will he do with it??

[withcheese]

I seriously do not think that Pop wanted to play NVE in the playoffs last year. He wanted to keep NVE on the bench, but he had:

1) A starting All-Star PG with bad wheels
2) The other PG was somewhat out of shape and never showed he could run the offense efficiently without turning the ball over.

Beno had his chance, and luckily for him he has another one this year. What will he do with it??

thats not true...he showed he could run the offense pretty well his entire rookie season, with the one exception being the nba finals against the best defensive team in the world other than the spurs.

regardless of whether or not pop wanted to, he was stuck with van exel come playoff time because he had a consistent rotation involving nve and not beno that he had been using for the entire season...

now i know pop did end up deciding to do something in the playoffs against dallas that the team wasnt accustomed to, a small ball strategy that they had only used occasionaly during the regular season. but aside from that move, which everyone agrees was completely uncharacteristic of pop, he doesnt seem like the guy to throw a wrench into the mix right at the end of the season going in to the playoffs

its not like beno and nve had been competing for minutes all year and the end of the regular season was just an audition of sorts used to see who he was going to stick with in the playoffs...pop chose nve early on in the year and stuck with him through thick and thin (but may more thick than thin). even if pop realized the error in even letting nve step foot off the bench, it was too late to change.

but whatever, beno isnt really all that great anyway, i just think hes got good potential, whereas nve (especially) and jacque vaughn (not as much) have limited potential. beno will never realize his potential though if pop doesnt give him pt

its like with tony...even though he railed on him hard when hed fuck up as a rookie (which was all the time), he was forced to stick with tony as a starter because he knew a.d. was not a serviceable starting point guard. pop should do the same with beno, but in the backup context...he shouldnt just fall back on the veteran backup because beno isnt living up to whatever unrealistic expectation pop has, he should force himself to stick with beno for a while. he had to do that with tony, and it paid off. it might pay off with beno too

[BeerIsGood!]

I guarantee you Beno's inability to run the offense in garbage time didn't lead much confidence in going with him during the playoffs. He shouldn't be given time... he should earn it by busting his ass 24-7 to get better and stay in tip top shape. That means no more excessive partying, etc...

Pop stayed with Tony because Tony busted his ass the entire time and showed that he really wanted it. If Beno busts his ass this offseason and during camp and the season he'll get more playing time. He has to earn it.

[withcheese]

I guarantee you Beno's inability to run the offense in garbage time didn't lead much confidence in going with him during the playoffs. He shouldn't be given time... he should earn it by busting his ass 24-7 to get better and stay in tip top shape. That means no more excessive partying, etc...

Pop stayed with Tony because Tony busted his ass the entire time and showed that he really wanted it. If Beno busts his ass this offseason and during camp and the season he'll get more playing time. He has to earn it.

i agree with all of that except the first line...inability to run the offense during garbage time? what are you talking about? he played well against houston except for one or two bone headed plays near the end. he had 5/6 fts and an assist and a hockey assist. THAT DOESNT TRANSLATE INTO COMPLETE INEPTITUDE ON ALL LEVELS AGAINST EVERY TEAM. what it shows is that he sometimes makes mistakes when it matters. but EVERYONE on that team makes GIGANTIC mistakes sometimes.

all of us will forgive boneheadness on huge, season-ending plays from manu, but we wont forgive it on a foul and a turnover (that probably wasnt entirely his fault) in a meaningless game? what the fuck is that?

[Kibic]

It's just ... kids. I hope for him to get into a solid team. Out off Pop and Spurs.