Bonzi To Houston...

[SKINNYPIMP210]

GREAT... :depressed
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2605639

[Louis]

Be afraid....

Be very afraid.....

We'll be back on top...

Bonzi the Spurs killer to the rescue!!!! Hell Yeah!!!

[lovespurs forever]

:lmao :lmao
Be afraid....

Be very afraid.....

We'll be back on top...

Bonzi the Spurs killer to the rescue!!!! Hell Yeah!!!
:td :spin

[icem]

the rockets could be a problem because bowen can only guard mcgrady or wells. if he is guarding one the other will probably eat the spurs alive. and dont forget how Yao was playing 2nd half of the season. if he keeps that up with a healty t-mac, bonzi wells, and shane battier, this team could do some real damage....

[ChumpDumper]

But Casey Jacobsen is the real Spur killer.

[Bruno]

Rockets is a pretty good matchup for Spurs.
Houston best lineup is Alston/Wells/TMac/Battier/Yao and they won't be able to do it against Spurs because Battier can't defend on Duncan. Rockets must use a true PF against Spurs and their PFs are a 34 years old Howard and a 6'6" Hayes. Rockets needs another bigman (like Melvin Ely) if they want to compete with teams like Spurs or Suns (Amare will give them the same problem than Duncan).
Rockets will be a very dangerous team for Mavs.

[Obstructed_View]

So how is their starting lineup going to look? I don't see where Bonzi fits unless TMac brings up the ball and they bring Skip 2 off the bench. I don't see anyone that can guard Parker either way.

[Streakyshooter08]

Well, if Houston stays healthy, they are a dangerous team. I wonder if Battier will start alongside T-Mac. A lineup of Alston/Battier/T-Mac/ Howard/ Yao with Wells as 6th man looks really good on paper. It will be interesting how the Spurs match up with them...

[George Gervin's Afro]

well if houston plans to iso wells all night long then good luck. bonzi killed us because he was allowed to pla one one one. the less shots for yao and t-mac I'm all for it.. I hope the rockets aren't expecting bonzi to do the dirty work.

[Louie Vega]

Be afraid....

Be very afraid.....

We'll be back on top...

Bonzi the Spurs killer to the rescue!!!! Hell Yeah!!!


That's the same shit you said when you all got T Mac. And you still haven't won a 2nd round series.

[carib]

Lets not forget who is the Captain, the man in charge, the one that calls all the shoots, the one that starts every night, the one that plays 40+ every game, he has won 3 Championships, all the way from Air Force Academy.

The man him self, some people call him CIA POP, He never discriminates but regulates ever night in and out, on the court and off the court.

The one and only Gregg Popovich

[theroc5]

Lets break this down to see how they match up..
Coach:JVG
Alston
Tmac
Battier
Bonzi
Yao

bench:howard,head,Vassilis Spanoulis,Sura,Deke

Spurs
Coach:POP
Parker
Manu
Bowen
Duncan
Butler(defense on Yao)

Bench: Finely,Elson,Barry,Bonner,Horry

Parker Vs Alston:Winner Spurs
Manu vs Battier:Winner Spurs
Bowen Vs Tmac : Winner Rockets
Duncan Vs Bonzi: Winner Spurs
Butler Vs Yao:Winner Rockets
Bench:Spurs Vs rockets: Winner Spurs
Coach: Pop Vs JVG Winner POP

Of Course playing together and doing a game on paper are to diffrent things but i like the looks of this match up, elson would prob be a better match up vs the mavs but against the rockets butlers defense would be more needed on yao. the X factors imo are Manu and Spanoulis. Looks to be a great and fun yr.

If these teams meet in the playoffs i have the Spurs in 5 or 6.

[JamStone]

That's the same shit you said when you all got T Mac. And you still haven't won a 2nd round series.


They still haven't won a first round series.

[JamStone]

well if houston plans to iso wells all night long then good luck. bonzi killed us because he was allowed to pla one one one. the less shots for yao and t-mac I'm all for it.. I hope the rockets aren't expecting bonzi to do the dirty work.


I suspect Bonzi will end up being a sixth man so that he can be the featured go-to perimeter guy in the second unit when McGrady takes a rest, or the second option if Yao is on the bench.

I think that will also allow T-Mac to be fresher at the end of games, and I'm sure Houston hopes it allows for T-Mac to stay healthier during the course of the season.

But, I do agree with Bruno that Houston still has a pressing need at the power positions. Ryan Bowen, Chuck Hayes, and Dikembe Mutombo are the big man reserves. That's not good, especially when one of your starting bigs is Juwan Howard.

Rockets still need a younger, more athletic reserve big man that can play either PF or C. If he's still availabe, Melvin Ely might be a nice option, as Bruno mentioned. If I were the Rockets, I'd also see what it would take to make a deal for someone like Carlos Boozer or Zach Randolph. Those two might be available.

[JamStone]

Lets break this down to see how they match up..
Coach:JVG
Alston
Tmac
Battier
Bonzi
Yao

bench:howard,head,Vassilis Spanoulis,Sura,Deke

Spurs
Coach:POP
Parker
Manu
Bowen
Duncan
Butler(defense on Yao)

Bench: Finely,Elson,Barry,Bonner,Horry

Parker Vs Alston:Winner Spurs
Manu vs Battier:Winner Spurs
Bowen Vs Tmac : Winner Rockets
Duncan Vs Bonzi: Winner Spurs
Butler Vs Yao:Winner Rockets
Bench:Spurs Vs rockets: Winner Spurs
Coach: Pop Vs JVG Winner POP

Of Course playing together and doing a game on paper are to diffrent things but i like the looks of this match up, elson would prob be a better match up vs the mavs but against the rockets butlers defense would be more needed on yao. the X factors imo are Manu and Spanoulis. Looks to be a great and fun yr.

If these teams meet in the playoffs i have the Spurs in 5 or 6.


Bonzi won't be starting at power forward when the Rockets play the Spurs.

Off the bench, Bonzi Wells alone is better than everything the Spurs have on their bench.

[ducks]

will wells be happy off the bench

[MajorMike]

Bonzi won't be starting at power forward when the Rockets play the Spurs.

Off the bench, Bonzi Wells alone is better than everything the Spurs have on their bench.


:sleep

[MI21]

Ouch.

Rockets are a tough matchup for the Spurs now. Bowen can only cover one of Bonzi and McGrady at once. No Rasho to guard Yao. Defensive stopper Battier to chuck onto Manu.

Tough team to beat if they stay healthy.

[JamStone]

will wells be happy off the bench


I think he'll be fine coming off the bench. It will be his overall minutes and getting run in the fourth quarter that could make him disgruntled. If he doesn't consistently get 25-30 mpg, he might not be happy. But, taking less money to go to Houston because of T-Mac and Yao kind of demonstrates that he's willing to make some compromises to be where he wants to be.

He should be ok coming off the bench as long as he gets his minutes and plays in crunch time.

[kobe_bryant]

you guys just took a critical hit in your division

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Given how tricky McGrady's back is there will be plenty of minutes for Bonzi, both in the eventuality that TMac misses some time or that the coaching staff tries to limit his minutes. It's still all on Yao and McGrady though. They stay healthy Bonzi could be the X-factor that can take them deep into the playoffs, and if they keep getting hurt then this signing will be a footnote to this offseason.

[theroc5]

Bonzi won't be starting at power forward when the Rockets play the Spurs.

Off the bench, Bonzi Wells alone is better than everything the Spurs have on their bench.
i'd have finely over bonzi for the spurs any day. and other then that, what play off the bench is better then elson butler horry beno extra.

[SenorSpur]

Don't understand this signing. Shane Battier is already their starting small forward. Unless, of course, they are planning to bring him off the bench.

[JamStone]

i'd have finely over bonzi for the spurs any day.


I bet that would be a minority opinion. At this point in their respective careers, Bonzi is 10 times the player Finley is.



and other then that, what play off the bench is better then elson butler horry beno extra.

I said Bonzi ALONE is better what the Spurs have on their bench.

As for the rest of the Rockets bench, I'd take Luther Head over Beno Udrih, and Dikembe is as old as dirt, but he's more proven than either Elson or Butler, whichever comes off the bench for the Spurs.

Again, my statement was that Bonzi ALONE was better than what the Spurs had on their bench.

[JamStone]

Don't understand this signing. Shane Battier is already their starting small forward. Unless, of course, they are planning to bring him off the bench.


Battier starts. Bonzi comes off the bench to be the main scoring option in the second unit. Makes sense to me.

Rockets still need help at PF and C.

[Supergirl]

Be afraid....

Be very afraid.....

We'll be back on top...

Bonzi the Spurs killer to the rescue!!!! Hell Yeah!!!

Uh - for him to be the Spurs killer, wouldn't have had to DEFEAT the Spurs?
Just having a good series, but losing, wouldn't quite cut it.

[Obstructed_View]

Ouch.

Rockets are a tough matchup for the Spurs now. Bowen can only cover one of Bonzi and McGrady at once. No Rasho to guard Yao. Defensive stopper Battier to chuck onto Manu.

Tough team to beat if they stay healthy.
If Pop makes adjustments to try to cover the Rockets, the Spurs are in trouble. If he plays his normal game and takes advantage of his own matchups, the Spurs will be fine. Parker and Ginobili will torch the Rockets' back court and Yao will now get even fewer touches than he did before, which was a big problem for them.

[Louis]

I bet that would be a minority opinion. At this point in their respective careers, Bonzi is 10 times the player Finley is.




I said Bonzi ALONE is better what the Spurs have on their bench.

As for the rest of the Rockets bench, I'd take Luther Head over Beno Udrih, and Dikembe is as old as dirt, but he's more proven than either Elson or Butler, whichever comes off the bench for the Spurs.

Again, my statement was that Bonzi ALONE was better than what the Spurs had on their bench.

Totally agree...

The Spurs bench is weak....

I wouldn't be surprised if the Rox become the second best team in Texas (after Dallas ...of course!)

[Winnipeg_Spur]

Damnit Bonzi, you were supposed to go east!!! I don't think the Spurs are doomed or anything, but I was really hoping the Spurs wouldn't see Bonzi early in the playoffs again. :madrun

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Damnit Bonzi, you were supposed to go east!!! I don't think the Spurs are doomed or anything, but I was really hoping the Spurs wouldn't see Bonzi early in the playoffs again. :madrun
If Yao and McGrady don't get healthy no one will have to worry about running into Bonzi in the playoffs. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

I bet that would be a minority opinion. At this point in their respective careers, Bonzi is 10 times the player Finley is.

Comparison of their stats doesn't indicate anything of the sort. I'd be surprised if Bonzi is 1 time the player Finley is this season since he doesn't have a contract to play for.

[icem]

actually he will be playing for a contract again. he can opt out of the 2nd year so.......BEWARE

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, the last dozen games of the season he's going to be a monster.

[MajorMike]

Won't do you no good if you don't make the playoffs.

[Ocotillo]

The lab test have come back.

Houston, we're sorry to inform you the test came back malignant, you have cancer in your locker room.

[GrandeDavid]

Great for the Rockets because you know Bonzi will bring it hard come playoff time since he plans on opting out of the second year. Hopefully the Rockets and Mavs somehow face each other earlier in the playoffs before either faces the Spurs to beat up on each other some.

[JamStone]

Comparison of their stats doesn't indicate anything of the sort. I'd be surprised if Bonzi is 1 time the player Finley is this season since he doesn't have a contract to play for.


As mentioned, he has an opt-out for the second year. I'm sure he'd rather play for more than $2.5 million the following season and lock down a long term contract.

Bonzi has always put up solid numbers. His numbers went down a little in Memphis, but so did his minutes. Per minute, he was right near where he played at in Portland, outside of his one breakout year in 2001-02.

Michael Finley is getting very close to the end.

[Nego]

I've had a wierd feeling this summer about the Spurs that I can't shake... I know what Wells is all about and stuff but ... I just can't shake this unsure feeling... I dont know if we are really better than last year...I just don't know... Houston could be pretty good...you never know...

[ducks]

could be if they ming,mcgrady and wells are healthy

[Nego]

I hear ya...Maybe thats my worry.... we'll see... I hope the front has something else other than "saving money" up their sleeve.....

[Obstructed_View]

As mentioned, he has an opt-out for the second year. I'm sure he'd rather play for more than $2.5 million the following season and lock down a long term contract.

Bonzi has always put up solid numbers. His numbers went down a little in Memphis, but so did his minutes. Per minute, he was right near where he played at in Portland, outside of his one breakout year in 2001-02.

Michael Finley is getting very close to the end.
According to my research, Finley scored more points than Wells did last year on a per minute basis. Therefore not a lot of strength in that argument.

[AdmiralMVP]

the rockets could be a problem because bowen can only guard mcgrady or wells. if he is guarding one the other will probably eat the spurs alive. and dont forget how Yao was playing 2nd half of the season. if he keeps that up with a healty t-mac, bonzi wells, and shane battier, this team could do some real damage....

And the chances that Houston can keep Yao and McGrady on the floor for more than half the season are .... ?

Realistically, Houston will not be able to play their best lineup very often. From what I understand, McGrady's back is a degenerative condition. It's unlikely he'll be able to play an entire regular and post season. Also, other than Rasho, is there a softer center in the NBA than Yao? Granted he had a good month or two last season ...

[Obstructed_View]

Also, other than Rasho, is there a softer center in the NBA than Yao? Granted he had a good month or two last season ...
He's a great scorer and a nightmare to guard. If his team ever realizes that the Rockets could become dangerous. Instead they let him fight for post position half the game while they don't pass it to him which wears him out. It doesn't make him soft.

[AdmiralMVP]

He's a great scorer and a nightmare to guard. If his team ever realizes that the Rockets could become dangerous. Instead they let him fight for post position half the game while they don't pass it to him which wears him out. It doesn't make him soft.

Soft doesn't imply he not a great scorer. However, for his career he averages less than 9 boards a game and 1.8 blocks. I would expect more from a 7 foot 5 center not named Shawn Bradley.

[icem]

And the chances that Houston can keep Yao and McGrady on the floor for more than half the season are .... ?

Realistically, Houston will not be able to play their best lineup very often. From what I understand, McGrady's back is a degenerative condition. It's unlikely he'll be able to play an entire regular and post season. Also, other than Rasho, is there a softer center in the NBA than Yao? Granted he had a good month or two last season ...

LOL @ yao being the softest center in the league. i guess you werent paying attention to yao's DOMINANCE after he came back from injury....
why do you keep thinking the rockets will be injured again and the spurs will be healthy ? keep thinking that and watch manu tear an ACL or something...

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

he owned the SPurs in the postseason, damn



Spurs better pray to God that Butler and the rest we picked up and up being good

[JamStone]

According to my research, Finley scored more points than Wells did last year on a per minute basis. Therefore not a lot of strength in that argument.


I assume your research was only on the regular season, in which Bonzi was injured for much of it.

Kings v. Spurs first round playoff series:


Bonzi Wells: 41.5 mpg, 23.2 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 1.3 apg, .609 FG%, .625 3PT%

Michael Finley: 25.3 mpg, 10.3 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 2.0 apg, .429 FG%, .400 3PT%

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

That Eason guy will shut down Yao :smokin and then call him gay :lol

[AdmiralMVP]

LOL @ yao being the softest center in the league. i guess you werent paying attention to yao's DOMINANCE after he came back from injury....
why do you keep thinking the rockets will be injured again and the spurs will be healthy ? keep thinking that and watch manu tear an ACL or something...

Looks like I upset a Rockets fan! I understand it's no longer the mid-90's and the Rockets can't seem to get things together. You have my sympathies.

[ATX Spur]

could be if they ming,mcgrady and wells are healthy

big effin "if"s

[ATX Spur]

Bonzi scrapped the barrel last year playing to the upmost of his capabilities and he still couldn't sniff a max contract. What the hell makes you think he can play outstandingly enough to merit the 8 or 9 million he desires? Does Bonzi even think he can? What's his motivation?

[bdictjames]

I still haven't forgotten T-mac's 13 points in 35 seconds against the Spurs.. but I guess it was just tough luck

[Obstructed_View]

I assume your research was only on the regular season, in which Bonzi was injured for much of it.

Kings v. Spurs first round playoff series:


Bonzi Wells: 41.5 mpg, 23.2 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 1.3 apg, .609 FG%, .625 3PT%

Michael Finley: 25.3 mpg, 10.3 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 2.0 apg, .429 FG%, .400 3PT%
So Bonzi plays out of his mind for six games and that's what you use to judge his greatness? You should be a GM for a terrible NBA team.

[JamStone]

So Bonzi plays out of his mind for six games and that's what you use to judge his greatness? You should be a GM for a terrible NBA team.


So, you'd rather have the slightly better player in the regular season who basically disappears in the playoffs over a guy who was injured most of the regular season and had unimpressive regular season stats but when it's crunch time in the playoffs goes berzerk?

You should NOT be a GM for any NBA team.

[mavsfan1000]

So, you'd rather have the slightly better player in the regular season who basically disappears in the playoffs over a guy who was injured most of the regular season and had unimpressive regular season stats but when it's crunch time in the playoffs goes berzerk?

You should NOT be a GM for any NBA team.
Everyone goes through a hot streak and they have no control of when it happens. Bonzi was lucky to get hot when it meant the most. That doesn't mean he will continue to get hot during the playoffs. Billups is an example of a player that got hot against the spurs but didn't do shit this year in the playoffs.

[JamStone]

Everyone goes through a hot streak and they have no control of when it happens. Bonzi was lucky to get hot when it meant the most. That doesn't mean he will continue to get hot during the playoffs. Billups is an example of a player that got hot against the spurs but didn't do shit this year in the playoffs.


Bonzi has had great playoffs series before, for example in 2003 against your Dallas Mavericks, where he dropped 19.0 ppg and held his own against a younger Michael Finley.

As for Chauncey not doing anything this year in the playoffs, he kept the Pistons in the Cavs series. And, he was the only guy playing in the first two games against the Heat. What are you watching?

And, look at Chauncey in 2002 with Minnesota when he as he was considered a journeyman back-up point guard at that point, he filled in for Terrell Brandon and put up 22 ppg, 6 apg, and 5 rpg.

Then the following year, he carried the Pistons passed Tracy McGrady and the Magic after being down 3-1 in that series, and even after he severely sprained his ankle, Chauncey dropped 28 pts to clinch the series.

In 2004, we all know what happened that led to Billups' Finals MVP.

And, last season, as you said, he was one of the few Pistons that played well in the NBA Finals against the Spurs.

Ever since 2002, Chauncey Billups has raised his game in the post-season. Last year, admittingly he ran out of gas by the playoffs, but since when is averagine 18 pts and 7 assists "not doing shit?"

Again, what are you watching? You make no sense.

[mavsfan1000]

Ok he shot well in the first round but after that it got ugly. Conference Semifinals
7 7 39.6 29-77 .377 13-36 .361 33-36 .917 .3 3.6 3.9 5.9 2.00 .14 3.14 2.10 14.9
Conference Finals
6 6 41.2 34-87 .391 7-27 .259 33-37 .892 .7 2.2 2.8 7.2 .83 .17 2.17 2.80 18.0
He shot 26 % from 3's and 39% from the field against the Heat. He shot 38% from the field against the Cavs. That my friend is not showing up. Also he slowed the ball down and allowed Shaq to be well rested.

[JamStone]

Ok, so he Chauncey had a poor series against the Miami Heat last post-season. You comparing him to what you called Bonzi implied that Chauncey only did well the season before against the Spurs in 2005. You ignored the 2004 Finals where he won Finals MVP. 2003, he had a few great performances against Orlando and played well in a few games even after severely spraining his ankle. Then like I said go back to 2002 when he averaged 22, 6, and 5 when he was the back-up and considered a journeyman.

Your point was already refuted as soon as you brought up Chauncey Billups, because for four straight post-seasons, Chauncey DID SHOW up.

And, look at Chauncey Billups' career stats. He's never shot a high percentage from the field. 38% is not good. But, he's almost exclusively a jumpshooter. Plus, he's the bail-out guy when the shot clock is running down.

And, as for slowing down the ball and allowing Shaq to rest. What the hell are you watching?!?!

The Pistons have been more of a half-court team the last four years. That's how they won the championship in 2004. That's how they got back to the Finals in 2005. Even under Flip, they were still more of a halfcourt team. And, it wasn't Shaq being rested that beat the Pistons. It was the fact no one could really stop Dwyane Wade. Shaq being rested wasn't why Miami beat the Pistons. It was Dwyane Wade and Antoine Walker having a couple very good games.

You're reaching right now, and it's funny.

[mavsfan1000]

Shaq played great against Detroit. Better than any other series in the playoffs for him. Billups missed a lot of open shots as I remember. I couldn't believe how he could go that cold just like I couldn't believe Bonzi could be that hot. Basketball is a game of hot and cold streaks. Billups played way below his normal game against Miami and Cleveland and Bonzi played way above his normal against the spurs. That doesn't mean you judge by that 6 or 7 games and overpay. What I'm trying to say is Bonzi isn't as good as how he played vs. the spurs. It was a hot streak.

[Obstructed_View]

So, you'd rather have the slightly better player in the regular season who basically disappears in the playoffs over a guy who was injured most of the regular season and had unimpressive regular season stats but when it's crunch time in the playoffs goes berzerk?

You should NOT be a GM for any NBA team.
I'll take the guy who isn't a locker room cancer, who has less than a 50/50 chance of sulking on the bench or of getting busted for drug possession. You can have the guy with all the potential and the attitude problems, and my team will win in a seven game series every time.

And I don't recall Finley disappearing in the playoffs. His scoring was slightly higher even though he was thrown in as the starting power forward halfway through the playoffs and asked to be a shot blocker.

[JamStone]

I'll take the guy who isn't a locker room cancer, who has less than a 50/50 chance of sulking on the bench or of getting busted for drug possession. You can have the guy with all the potential and the attitude problems, and my team will win in a seven game series every time.

So, why did you only mention how Finley had a better point per minute average than Bonzi in the regular season?

Nice way of amending your argument. :rolleyes




And I don't recall Finley disappearing in the playoffs. His scoring was slightly higher even though he was thrown in as the starting power forward halfway through the playoffs and asked to be a shot blocker.

He had one or two decent games. He was not a factor. And, you'd be kidding if you tried to argue as much.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

This is CRAP.

We could have paid him nearly 4mil for one year (E Williams' contract) to make him our 6th man, and instead we let him go to the neighbours! Sheesh.

We can only hope his cancerous ways come to the fore on a Rockets team that severely lacks leadership (although Battier may solve that for them...).

[Obstructed_View]

So, why did you only mention how Finley had a better point per minute average than Bonzi in the regular season?

Nice way of amending your argument. :rolleyes

Where, in the text that you quoted, did I do that? Just wave the white flag now. My argument hasn't changed, but yours is looking weak.

You were the one who said Bonzi is ten times the player Finley and you were able to do it ONLY by extrapolating six great playoff performances out over the rest of his career, which requires a huge leap of faith that I'm just not willing to make.

I freely acknowledge that Bonzi played great in the playoffs, but I contend that it had more to do with the fact that he was playing for a contract, and I can cite his history to support that claim. I can also cite evidence that he's a disruption, a malcontent, and has a questionable work ethic. Besides, my having taken an 82 game cross section for comparison is mathematically 13 times more accurate in judging the contribution of Finley than you wanting to have Bonzi's baby just because he put up numbers a couple of times in losing playoff efforts.

In the part of my post that you DIDN'T bother to quote, I mentioned that Finley's scoring was a couple of tenths higher in spite of the huge disadvantage he was put in against two very good teams. You obviously didn't watch the Spurs Mavs series, otherwise you wouldn't try to make such a senseless argument Finley wasn't a factor.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Where, in the text that you quoted, did I do that? Just wave the white flag now. My argument hasn't changed, but yours is looking weak.

You were the one who said Bonzi is ten times the player Finley and you were able to do it ONLY by extrapolating six great playoff performances out over the rest of his career, which requires a huge leap of faith that I'm just not willing to make.

I freely acknowledge that Bonzi played great in the playoffs, but I contend that it had more to do with the fact that he was playing for a contract, and I can cite his history to support that claim. I can also cite evidence that he's a disruption, a malcontent, and has a questionable work ethic. Besides, my having taken an 82 game cross section for comparison is mathematically 13 times more accurate in judging the contribution of Finley than you wanting to have Bonzi's baby just because he put up numbers a couple of times in losing playoff efforts.

In the part of my post that you DIDN'T bother to quote, I mentioned that Finley's scoring was a couple of tenths higher in spite of the huge disadvantage he was put in against two very good teams. You obviously didn't watch the Spurs Mavs series, otherwise you wouldn't try to make such a senseless argument Finley wasn't a factor.
:tu Good post.

[JamStone]

Where, in the text that you quoted, did I do that? Just wave the white flag now. My argument hasn't changed, but yours is looking weak.

You mentioned on page two trying to refute my claim that Bonzi is 10 times the player Michael Finley is AT THIS POINT IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CAREERS.



"According to my research, Finley scored more points than Wells did last year on a per minute basis. Therefore not a lot of strength in that argument."


Sound familiar? That's where you mentioned it.

That was your counter-argument to mine. My contention wasn't merely based on points per minute, while you refuted only saying that Finley scored more points per minute than Wells, therefore Bonzi isn't 10 times the player Finley is.




You were the one who said Bonzi is ten times the player Finley and you were able to do it ONLY by extrapolating six great playoff performances out over the rest of his career, which requires a huge leap of faith that I'm just not willing to make.


I didn't even mention the six games against the Spurs last playoffs until you tried to use a statistical argument of their regular season stats, where Bonzi was injured for much of it. Bonzi was hurt most of the season last year. And, so you wanted to compare regular seasons stats, when you know full well that the playoffs is where money players are made and proven? Come on, son.

And, AGAIN, I said AT THIS POINT IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CAREERS, Bonzi is 10 times the player Finley is. In my opinion, he is. I think he's a better scorer and rebounder and all-around player. Just because Bonzi's stats aren't 10 times the numbers Finley is, it doesn't mean Bonzi isn't 10 times the player. Tim Duncan and Zach Randolph could both average 20 ppg and 10 rpg, and I'd still think Duncan is 10 times the player of Zach.

You are the one who took an abstract comparative phrase and made it into a literal argument outside of its context.





I freely acknowledge that Bonzi played great in the playoffs, but I contend that it had more to do with the fact that he was playing for a contract, and I can cite his history to support that claim. I can also cite evidence that he's a disruption, a malcontent, and has a questionable work ethic. Besides, my having taken an 82 game cross section for comparison is mathematically 13 times more accurate in judging the contribution of Finley than you wanting to have Bonzi's baby just because he put up numbers a couple of times in losing playoff efforts.


How the hell were you taking an 82 game cross section for comparison when Bonzi Wells only played 52 games in the regular season last year? Pure buffoonery. Wells even played hurt in some of those games. It's far more accurate if you make a comparative analysis when both players are healthy too, but you appear to want to play by a certain set of rules that only helps your argument. :rolleyes




In the part of my post that you DIDN'T bother to quote, I mentioned that Finley's scoring was a couple of tenths higher in spite of the huge disadvantage he was put in against two very good teams. You obviously didn't watch the Spurs Mavs series, otherwise you wouldn't try to make such a senseless argument Finley wasn't a factor.


When I posted Finley's numbers to Bonzi's numbers, it was for the Sacramento series ONLY. It didn't include Dallas series. I watched some of the Spurs-Mavs series. Finley had one decent game against the Kings, and I'm pretty sure it was in a loss. And, Finley logged heavier minutes against the Mavs when Pop went small ball, but so what? Finley sharing the responsibility of being the person Dirk was scoring on is supposed to be being a factor? Yeah right.


AT THIS POINT IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CAREERS, Bonzi Wells is 10 times the player Michael Finley is. You have yet to make a coherent argument to refute that. My point is Bonzi is a difference maker and can be an unstoppable force in a game while Finley is at the end of his career relegated to being a fourth option at best to hit open jumpers and playing some sideshow role.

You can bring more stats if you want. You want to talk about the regular season comparison. You probably think Peja is better than Manu or Chris Webber is just as good as Duncan because stats extrapolated over an 82 game regular season proves just that.


You, sir, are a moron.

[Obstructed_View]

You mentioned on page two trying to refute my claim that Bonzi is 10 times the player Michael Finley is AT THIS POINT IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CAREERS.

"According to my research, Finley scored more points than Wells did last year on a per minute basis. Therefore not a lot of strength in that argument."


Sound familiar? That's where you mentioned it.
You posted six times since I said that. Go ahead and add up the six playoff games Wells played and recalculate the numbers. It will make a small difference, but not enough to prevent you from looking any less ignorant for making such an asinine statement in the first place.


That was your counter-argument to mine. My contention wasn't merely based on points per minute, while you refuted only saying that Finley scored more points per minute than Wells, therefore Bonzi isn't 10 times the player Finley is.
If your contention wasn't based upon points per minute, I wonder why you brought it up in the first place. Does it only count when you want to use it, or does it suddenly not count now that it completely fails to back up your point?


I didn't even mention the six games against the Spurs last playoffs until you tried to use a statistical argument of their regular season stats, where Bonzi was injured for much of it. Bonzi was hurt most of the season last year. And, so you wanted to compare regular seasons stats, when you know full well that the playoffs is where money players are made and proven? Come on, son.
So what you really meant to say is "Bonzi Wells was ten times the player Michael Finley is - for six games. And BTW, how does losing the series make him a "money player" exactly? I suppose the same way games that Bonzi missed due to injury had an effect on his per minute stats: NOT AT ALL.


And, AGAIN, I said AT THIS POINT IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CAREERS, Bonzi is 10 times the player Finley is. In my opinion, he is. I think he's a better scorer and rebounder and all-around player. Just because Bonzi's stats aren't 10 times the numbers Finley is, it doesn't mean Bonzi isn't 10 times the player. Tim Duncan and Zach Randolph could both average 20 ppg and 10 rpg, and I'd still think Duncan is 10 times the player of Zach.
At this point in their respective careers, Finley is three years older than Bonzi. Finley's stats three years ago were better than Bonzi's have ever been, unless you want to just count those six playoff games. I suppose you should probably have said, "I can't prove it or anything, I just want to believe that Bonzi's a better player."


You are the one who took an abstract comparative phrase and made it into a literal argument outside of its context.
Yeah, who'd have thought? On a discussion forum? At least it only took you two dozen posts to finally admit that it was abstract. It's the first thing you've stated in this thread that there is actually evidence to back up.


How the hell were you taking an 82 game cross section for comparison when Bonzi Wells only played 52 games in the regular season last year? Pure buffoonery. Wells even played hurt in some of those games. It's far more accurate if you make a comparative analysis when both players are healthy too, but you appear to want to play by a certain set of rules that only helps your argument. :rolleyes
Do you even understand what "per minute" means, or did you just hear it somewhere and think repeating it would make you sound smart? Certain set of rules? See "Three years older", above. Doesn't matter. Picking the best six games of the season is a MUCH more accurate way to judge a player that's been in the league for eight years. :lol


When I posted Finley's numbers to Bonzi's numbers, it was for the Sacramento series ONLY. It didn't include Dallas series. I watched some of the Spurs-Mavs series. Finley had one decent game against the Kings, and I'm pretty sure it was in a loss. And, Finley logged heavier minutes against the Mavs when Pop went small ball, but so what? Finley sharing the responsibility of being the person Dirk was scoring on is supposed to be being a factor? Yeah right.
Oh, I forgot. You can mention that Bonzi was injured for games you weren't even counting, but the mere mention that Finley was playing power forward in a playoff series can't possibly be a factor.


AT THIS POINT IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CAREERS, Bonzi Wells is 10 times the player Michael Finley is. You have yet to make a coherent argument to refute that. My point is Bonzi is a difference maker and can be an unstoppable force in a game while Finley is at the end of his career relegated to being a fourth option at best to hit open jumpers and playing some sideshow role.
I've made nothing but coherent arguments to refute it. You've already admitted it was abstract, yet you throw it out there again?

Weak. Weak. Weak. You are a buffoon posing as a basketball intellectual. At least I know that from now on.