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Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 09:28 AM
Redevelopment plans afoot for downtown mall

Web Posted: 10/04/2006 01:13 AM CDT

Amy Dorsett
Express-News Staff Writer

Hoping to convert Rivercenter mall into a luxurious destination for shoppers, diners and visitors, its owners today will unveil an aggressive redevelopment plan that would bring an old-fashioned look to the downtown landmark popular with vacationers and convention delegates.

One of the most dramatic changes would restore grandeur to one of the oldest parts of the mall's facade along Commerce Street, bringing back the windows and brick familiar to past generations of shoppers of Joske's of Texas.

The original facade was built in 1909 and has been concealed by an art deco veneer of concrete and fiberglass for decades.

New York City-based Ashkenazy Acquisition Corp., which purchased the mall in spring 2005, has made application with the city to get conceptual approval for the three-phase plan, which includes the addition of five-star restaurants and a high-end hotel.

Under a plan being unveiled today, a sight not seen in San Antonio for generations will reappear — the original facade of the Commerce Street side of the old Joske's of Texas building. It was hidden years ago by this layer of concrete and fiberglass.

City staff is recommending the high-profile project be sent for review to the commission's Architectural Committee, which would make recommendations to the full commission at a later date.

Frank Valadez, managing partner of SA Partnership Architects, which is working on the project, said he's excited about the old Joske's facade being restored on Commerce Street.

That storied department store closed about 20 years ago. A Dillard's store occupies the first two floors of the old Joske's, and the top two floors — about 200,000 square feet of retail space — remain vacant.

Valadez, a native of San Antonio who has fond memories of shopping at Joske's, said the modern facade will give way to the old storefront.

"We're going to restore the original Joske's facade," he said. "The brick and windows and doorways are on there, intact — they've been mothballed by fiberglass."

Valadez said the project would evolve over years in three phases, with the first step being complete next fall.

Phase 1 would see the addition of five-star restaurants, including more outdoor seating.

Phase 2 focuses on the redevelopment of the Joske's space, including finding tenants for the two upper floors.

Phase 3 calls for a hotel where the Commerce Street garage is now; the garage would be relocated to the northeast corner of the property.

While the deal hasn't been finalized, Valadez said the hotel would be a five-star property, such as a Four Seasons or Ritz-Carlton. The mall is within walking distance of the Convention Center and Alamodome and already includes the city's largest hotel, the San Antonio Marriott Rivercenter.

"There's a lot of interest," Valadez said of the hotel property.

Barry Lustig, senior vice president of real estate for Ashkenazy Acquisition, wouldn't reveal how much money his company plans on investing in Rivercenter, but did say the project was a high priority.

"We firmly believe in San Antonio. We believe in San Antonio's future," he said. "It could rival some of the best cities around the nation."

Though the city's shopping identity is firmly rooted in North Star Mall, and more recently in the upscale Shops at La Cantera, Valadez said Ashkenazy leaders think San Antonio needs more.

Lustig "feels San Antonio is one of the greatest cities and doesn't have the shopping that the city deserves," Valadez said.

Lustig said Ashkenazy is in negotiation with several companies to open in Rivercenter.

"San Antonio is one of those markets that is truly one of a kind. Downtown will prosper beyond people's beliefs very soon," he said.


http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/D_IMAGE.10e0dc96062.93.88.fa.d0.463d7dd.jpg

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA100406.01A.rivercenter.redo.35e79a8.html

johnsmith
10-04-2006, 09:32 AM
Good, ever since I've moved here my biggest complaint was how shitty downtown always looks. It's 70's style architecture as well as it's homeless infested bus stops is an eye sore on an otherwise beautiful area.

Now if they'd just remodel the southside, eastside, and parts of the westside it could be like a real grown up city.

Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 09:34 AM
This is the original Joske's facade that will be restored.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/Kriserik86/joskes.jpg

Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 09:38 AM
Hotel rendering submitted to historic review and design commission. Shitty quality but that's how all historic review and design pdf's are.

http://myspace-678.vo.llnwd.net/01246/87/67/1246747678_l.jpg

Mixability
10-04-2006, 09:42 AM
will this redevelopment include putting out traps for the hoodrats?

Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 09:47 AM
If you could see what they have planned, you will not have to worry about any more "hoodrats."

These new owners are serious.

I'll get the renderings up soon.

boutons_
10-04-2006, 09:51 AM
Isn't the "new hotel" currently Rivercenter parking?

Solid D
10-04-2006, 09:57 AM
http://photohome.com/pictures/texas-pictures/san-antonio/st-josephs-church-1a.jpg

There's Joske's and then there's St. Joske's.

johnsmith
10-04-2006, 09:58 AM
Isn't the "new hotel" currently Rivercenter parking?


What in the fuck are you talking about?

boutons_
10-04-2006, 09:59 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/bamboozool2/999_temp/rivercenter.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/bamboozool2/999_temp/rivercenter_close.jpg

Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 09:59 AM
Isn't the "new hotel" currently Rivercenter parking?

Yeah, that will be torn down. A new parking garage will be built at the northeast side on what is now surface parking.

Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 10:07 AM
New Rivercenter mall entrance:

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3713/rivercentermallvi1.png

katyon6th
10-04-2006, 10:08 AM
Holy fuck! We're getting a Four Seasons!

Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 10:12 AM
Now
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8706/rivercentermallentrancejz5.png

New
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2666/rivercentermallentrance2gx7.png

Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 10:16 AM
Now
http://xs107.xs.to/xs107/06403/rivercentermallleftentrance.PNG

New
http://xs107.xs.to/xs107/06403/rivercentermallleftentrance2.PNG

TheTruth
10-04-2006, 10:17 AM
Man those little thugs and hoodrats patrolling the commerce street entrance to rivercenter ruin everything. I was down there a few months ago, and a bunch of older people were there in what I am guessing were Square Dancing clothes. The damn kids kept yelling at them, and making fun of them. If I weren't such a pussy I would have told them all to shut the hell up.

TheTruth
10-04-2006, 10:19 AM
Downtown needs another Landry's Owned Resteraunt. :rolleyes

Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 10:21 AM
Now
http://xs107.xs.to/xs107/06403/rivercentermallwalk2.PNG

New
http://xs107.xs.to/xs107/06403/rivercentermallwalk.PNG

MannyIsGod
10-04-2006, 10:24 AM
My sister and I went shopping there yesterday, and one of the owners was really bummed because of the new guy who had purchased the mall. He said he was a big time real eastate developer and had raised their rent and no longer let them validate parking which was driving down business.

It kinda makes sense now, but sucks for those people.

MannyIsGod
10-04-2006, 10:24 AM
That part of the city should be much nicer than it currently is. Hopefully they get this and the damn dome situation worked out.

boutons_
10-04-2006, 10:25 AM
less foliage, more sterility, not good.

I wonder if they will cut the trees down, or try to transplant them?

Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 10:26 AM
Now
http://xs107.xs.to/xs107/06403/rivercenterwall.PNG

New
http://xs107.xs.to/xs107/06403/rivercenterwall2.PNG

MannyIsGod
10-04-2006, 10:27 AM
What trees?

Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 10:33 AM
Now
http://xs107.xs.to/xs107/06403/rivercenterdesign.PNG

New
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4731/rivercenterdesign2cx4.png

Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 10:36 AM
I see Maggiano's, Fogo de Chao, and Bar Louie.

Pretty badass for downtown and Rivercenter Mall. I told you this owner is serious.

boutons_
10-04-2006, 10:38 AM
I remember a lot of foliage and some trees in the food court outdoor dining area, river turnaround.

The huge, ancient cypress trees along the riverwalk are major focal points and contributions. (I know they aren't affected by these new developments)

In the above images, it looks like less greenery. Maybe they are showing less greenery than will be there to show more of proposed construction.

johnsmith
10-04-2006, 10:52 AM
I remember a lot of foliage and some trees in the food court outdoor dining area, river turnaround.

The huge, ancient cypress trees along the riverwalk are major focal points and contributions. (I know they aren't affected by these new developments)

In the above images, it looks like less greenery. Maybe they are showing less greenery than will be there to show more of proposed construction.


Can't you find the good in anything?

conqueso
10-04-2006, 11:03 AM
This is the original Joske's facade that will be restored.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/Kriserik86/joskes.jpg

Man, if they can make that shit look like it used to, it's going to be TIGHT!

And don't hate on the hood rats, back in '93-'95 that was me. We rolled hard, much harder than these fucking punks who infest that place now.

Mixability
10-04-2006, 11:33 AM
so THATS why they don't validate parking anymore......

If it gets the "crap" people out of downtown, I'm all for it.

Notorious H.O.P.
10-04-2006, 11:39 AM
Too clean and too modern. The parking situation will suck because you previously had two parking options at opposite sides of the mall, now both garages will be on the same side making it a longer walk to get to your car.

Also, no parking validation means that it is less likely locals will go there which will hurt all of the businesses. (of course, it really isn't a locals destination for the most part but I'm sure it is still a statistically significant part of their traffic) Granted San Antonio is a year-around tourist destination but obviously tourism numbers are better in some seasons than other which is why these businesses would rely on a local component.

Also, too much emphasis and focus on the two restaurants bordering Commerce and not enough to showcase the mall itself. The mall entrance winds up looking like an afterthought. I see some of the smaller businesses dying out, especially during the transition where foot traffic will go down during the construction process.

All in all, it just looks like the standard homogenization of what is currently a fairly unique and festive space. Granted, the glass and steel of the place didn't always completely fit with the older and historic facades that populate downtown SA, but it had it's own character, unlike the artist renditions of the redesign.

ChumpDumper
10-04-2006, 12:08 PM
So Rivercenter will look less like a 90s mall and more like a community college. Kind of a lateral move. The Back to the Future Joske's could be nice, thugh the f5act they have only been able to fill a third of it speaks volumes. Going upscale makes sense for the tourists; right now it's pretty much like any other mall with very little reason for most locals and tourists to bother making the trip.

ChumpDumper
10-04-2006, 12:47 PM
Hotel rendering submitted to historic review and design commission. Shitty quality but that's how all historic review and design pdf's are.

http://myspace-678.vo.llnwd.net/01246/87/67/1246747678_l.jpg
Why are we moving one of the Imperial Palace towers here?

Das Texan
10-04-2006, 04:43 PM
They should bring back the Christmas display at the old Joske's building.


That was utterly tight.

Slomo
10-04-2006, 04:58 PM
Why are we moving one of the Imperial Palace towers here?They got a good deal from Harrah's?

METALMiKE
10-04-2006, 05:48 PM
That part of the city should be much nicer than it currently is. Hopefully they get this and the damn dome situation worked out.
What dome situation do you speak of?

angel_luv
10-04-2006, 05:52 PM
So is the new Four Seasons hotel going to be accessible from River Center Mall like the Marriot is?

Or is it replacing the Marriot?

Das Texan
10-04-2006, 06:23 PM
So is the new Four Seasons hotel going to be accessible from River Center Mall like the Marriot is?

Or is it replacing the Marriot?



i assume its going to be in addition.


bottom line...rivercenter mall is a dump more or less. it needs this. though the parking thing is a tad gay.

Buddy Holly
10-04-2006, 07:03 PM
So is the new Four Seasons hotel going to be accessible from River Center Mall like the Marriot is?

Or is it replacing the Marriot?

It will be either Four Seasons or Ritz Carlton.

Mark in Austin
10-04-2006, 10:30 PM
I agree that the mall needs to be re-worked. I suspect that additional greenery will be added as the plans become more detailed/refined. Unless they are willing to re-work a pretty big portion of the property (moreso than already committed to), it will be hard to find a retail taker for the top two floors above Dillards, though.

I would explore the possibility of complimentary convention center uses - possibly a high-end reception space one one of the floors for instance - or a mix of professional uses (attorneys, title companies, etc) and residential lofts.

gameFACE
10-04-2006, 10:37 PM
I'm glad someone is willing to invest in Rivercenter. It needs some sprucing up. I think this is the same developer that has either bought or is trying to buy the St. Anthony hotel.

From the renderings though, it looks like a disaster. The new features over the existing glass curtain wall look like the cheap retail centers you see along the 1604 Stone Oak area. The old "perceived value" approach. I would prefer they took a more modernist approach. That would make the renovation portion look better IMO.

The suspended ring at the entry is nice. It's like the ones at street intersections in the Galleria (http://www.italconshouston.org/images/FOAR4/4oaksbig4.jpg) area of Houston.