North Korea Performs Nuclear Test

[MannyIsGod]

Per AP, CNN, whoever else is reporting it.

In other news, no WoMD found in Iraq.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Are You Shitting Me!!!??

[Bob Lanier]

No, he's not.

Or, OH NOES A NUCULAR WEEPON TEH WORLDS DOOMED :spless: :spless: :baby

[PixelPusher]

underground test? (I hope)

[CubanMustGo]

Apparently so. NK reports no radiation leaks.

[PixelPusher]

Apparently so. NK reports no radiation leaks.
taken with ginormous grain of salt. Don't we have spy planes in the area monitoring for radiation? I thought I saw Rummy talking about that 2 days ago.

[MannyIsGod]

I conceed that there's no proof yet, but if it was an underground test there should be sesmic proof soon enough.

[MannyIsGod]

taken with ginormous grain of salt. Don't we have spy planes in the area monitoring for radiation? I thought I saw Rummy talking about that 2 days ago.I doubt they're going about what planes we have where and what they are doing unless they are far dumber than I give them credit for being (which is already pretty fucking dumb).

The radiation from any type of test NK has the capicity to carry out is minimal either way. But there will be sesmic data that would have been captured had the test taken place. Japan and South Korea should both know for sure if the test took place, but South Korea had some kind of emergency meeting so I think this may hold water.

[CubanMustGo]

taken with ginormous grain of salt. Don't we have spy planes in the area monitoring for radiation? I thought I saw Rummy talking about that 2 days ago.
e
I guess the point I was trying to make was that had the explosion been above ground you wouldn't be worried about radiation leaks (that and about a bazillion spysats would have picked up an image of the explosion).

Hopefully this is just NK blowing smoke and the seismic evidence will not support their claim to have exploded a nuke. All we need is that lunatic with a nuke to (a) lob at Seoul or Tokyo the next time he gets his nose out of joint or (b) to sell for big $$ to Al-Queda.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Not good.

Will be interesting to see how the U.S. and the U.N. respond.

[B.AlMighty]

That's just fuckin' great.

[MannyIsGod]

They do have sesmic evidence to indicate a test according to the State Dept per CNN

[clambake]

Whats the big deal!!! We tested this weapon before we dropped FatMan and Little Boy! We did this to protect our troops!!!

Maybe others are testing these weapons for the same reason!!!!!

Rumor has it that an unleashed pitbull named Bush is roaming their neighborhood.


Welcome to the neighborhood America, because pitbulls don't talk.

[Marklar MM]

Was a 10-15 ton blast...equivalent of Hiroshima.

[spurster]

Another success brought to you by BushCo.

[jochhejaam]

Another success brought to you by BushCo.
Another small-minded post brought to you by Spurster.

[jochhejaam]

The U.N. Security Council last Friday urged North Korea not to carry out a test, warning Pyongyang of unspecified consequences if it did.

The U.N. has just called for an emergency Security Council meeting. Let's see what the unspecied consequences are.

[velik_m]

The U.N. has just called for an emergency Security Council meeting. Let's see what the unspecied consequences are.

probably nothing much, China will make sure of that.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Let's see what Dumbya says about it this morning. He knows ain't really shit we can do and a military response is out of the question.

[xrayzebra]

Not good.

Will be interesting to see how the U.S. and the U.N. respond.

Thank you Jimmy Carter and Ex-President Bill Clinton. You did your
job well. :depressed

[xrayzebra]

Now folks we have a real concern for our safety. Not because they may have
missiles. But because the child drunk will do anything for money and a little more
power. Wonder how long before the AQ delegation arrives to offer their
congratulations and proffer an offer for a bomb that they can smuggle in
across our borders and plant in some city here in the United States. Think they
wont, think again, think again.

I can hear some here now. Oh, they are a long ways from being able to
provide a bomb for AQ. Yeah, and they were years away from making their
own, weren't they? Now, on the other side of the world, Iran is still working
on theirs, guess where they may want to buy a little enriched goodies for
their own bomb.

Thanks again to our two ex-Presidents Carter and Clinton for their work in
helping NK get their own play pretty.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Thank you Jimmy Carter and Ex-President Bill Clinton. You did your
job well. :depressed


uh ray what about the other 16 yrs in between these 2 guys? Wasn't there a few Republican Presidents somewhere in this time frame?

[JoeChalupa]

Now folks we have a real concern for our safety. Not because they may have
missiles. But because the child drunk will do anything for money and a little more
power. Wonder how long before the AQ delegation arrives to offer their
congratulations and proffer an offer for a bomb that they can smuggle in
across our borders and plant in some city here in the United States. Think they
wont, think again, think again.

I can hear some here now. Oh, they are a long ways from being able to
provide a bomb for AQ. Yeah, and they were years away from making their
own, weren't they? Now, on the other side of the world, Iran is still working
on theirs, guess where they may want to buy a little enriched goodies for
their own bomb.

Thanks again to our two ex-Presidents Carter and Clinton for their work in
helping NK get their own play pretty.

Thanks for our current sitting president who has done nothing because he's been too pre-occupied with Iraq to pay attention to the REAL danger that is North Korea. WMD's!! WMD's!!! WMD's!!

Thanks Bush for dropping the ball that is in YOUR court.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Now folks we have a real concern for our safety. Not because they may have
missiles. But because the child drunk will do anything for money and a little more
power. Wonder how long before the AQ delegation arrives to offer their
congratulations and proffer an offer for a bomb that they can smuggle in
across our borders and plant in some city here in the United States. Think they
wont, think again, think again.

I can hear some here now. Oh, they are a long ways from being able to
provide a bomb for AQ. Yeah, and they were years away from making their
own, weren't they? Now, on the other side of the world, Iran is still working
on theirs, guess where they may want to buy a little enriched goodies for
their own bomb.


Please inform us what Ford, Reagan, Bush 1 & 2 have done to stop North Korea?
Thanks again to our two ex-Presidents Carter and Clinton for their work in
helping NK get their own play pretty.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Now folks we have a real concern for our safety. Not because they may have
missiles. But because the child drunk will do anything for money and a little more
power. Wonder how long before the AQ delegation arrives to offer their
congratulations and proffer an offer for a bomb that they can smuggle in
across our borders and plant in some city here in the United States. Think they
wont, think again, think again.

I can hear some here now. Oh, they are a long ways from being able to
provide a bomb for AQ. Yeah, and they were years away from making their
own, weren't they? Now, on the other side of the world, Iran is still working
on theirs, guess where they may want to buy a little enriched goodies for
their own bomb.

Thanks again to our two ex-Presidents Carter and Clinton for their work in
helping NK get their own play pretty.


Hey Ray let us know what Ford, Reagan and both Bushes did to stop North Korea from aquiring wmds?

[xrayzebra]

^^Hey GGA, who made the deal with NK for the nuclear power plant? And
who condoned it and let it go through?

[JoeChalupa]

Once again placing the blame on somebody else without taking any responsiblity for what is happening NOW.

[George Gervin's Afro]

^^Hey GGA, who made the deal with NK for the nuclear power plant? And
who condoned it and let it go through?



Who is allowing them to proceed today? can we talk about today ray? your unecessary war time president has tied our hands due to his liberation experiment gone awry. Are you going to answer the question as to what the other Presidents did?

[01Snake]

Who is allowing them to proceed today? can we talk about today ray? your unecessary war time president has tied our hands due to his liberation experiment gone awry. Are you going to answer the question as to what the other Presidents did?

Our hands are tied? What the hell does Iraq have to do with us dealing with NK? Are you saying we should be invading NK right now but since we are in Iraq we can't? How about bombing NK? Is that what you think Bush should do? You don't just bomb a country thats capable of leveling Seoul or possibly Tokyo if its ever attacked.

What should Bush have been doing and what should he be doing now? I'd love to hear your answer to that question.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Our hands are tied? What the hell does Iraq have to do with us dealing with NK? Are you saying we should be invading NK right now but since we are in Iraq we can't? How about bombing NK? Is that what you think Bush should do? You don't just bomb a country thats capable of leveling Seoul or possibly Tokyo if its ever attacked.

What should Bush have been doing and what should he be doing now? I'd love to hear your answer to that question.

It is clear that Bush hasn't done enough and you tell us since you've all got the answers to everything except the Foley scandal.

[johnsmith]

It is clear that Bush hasn't done enough and you tell us since you've all got the answers to everything except the Foley scandal.


Don't answer a question with another question just because you don't have any idea what to say in response to his question.

Seriously, what could we possibly do in regards to North Korea if we weren't in Iraq?

[01Snake]

Don't answer a question with another question just because you don't have any idea what to say in response to his question.



:lol

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Don't answer a question with another question just because you don't have any idea what to say in response to his question.

Seriously, what could we possibly do in regards to North Korea if we weren't in Iraq?

Well, it is apparent you don't have an answer either Mr. Smith. But it is clear to me that NK is the real threat to our security but I'm sure Dumbya and Rice-a-roni were not informed. :rolleyes

[johnsmith]

Well, it is apparent you don't have an answer either Mr. Smith. But it is clear to me that NK is the real threat to our security but I'm sure Dumbya and Rice-a-roni were not informed. :rolleyes


Oh Dear God, you are a moron. Of course I don't have an answer, that's why we are asking the question. Note to self, JohnnyMarzetti = worthless. Got it.

[RandomGuy]

Don't answer a question with another question just because you don't have any idea what to say in response to his question.

Seriously, what could we possibly do in regards to North Korea if we weren't in Iraq?

Not really much either.

Our responses are limited by their potential to put missles into Tokyo and Seoul.

I think we should just withdraw from the Korean penninsula altogether.

It would make the South Koreans happier, and they can defend themselves anyways.

[Spurminator]

I blame North Korea.

[boutons_]

"to put missles into Tokyo and Seoul"

M.A.D., which is exactly why Iran is so dangersous, since Iran's (non-nuclear) missles can reach Israel and significant parts of Western Europe, as well as rail hell down on US military installations in Iraq and other Gulf States.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Thanks for our current sitting president who has done nothing because he's been too pre-occupied with Iraq to pay attention to the REAL danger that is North Korea

I'm just curious what it is you think Bush should have done. Short of attacking their nuclear facilities and starting an all out war on the Korean Peninsula, I can't think of anything the administration should have done but didn't.

[ChumpDumper]

^^Hey GGA, who made the deal with NK for the nuclear power plant?You mean the power plant with the light water reactor that couldn't produce bomb material and was never finished being built?

[johnsmith]

You mean the power plant with the light water reactor that couldn't produce bomb material and was never finished being built?


Where did you hear that from?

[PixelPusher]

No worries. "W" is on top of it.


George W. pulled Bandar aside.
"Bandar, I guess you're the best asshole who knows about the world. Explain to me one thing."
"Governor, what is it?"
"Why should I care about North Korea?"
Bandar said he didn't really know. It was one of the few countries that he did not work on for King Fahd.
"I get these briefings on all parts of the world," Bush said, "and everybody is talking to me about North Korea."
"I'll tell you what, Governor," Bandar said. "One reason should make you care about North Korea."
"All right, smart alek," Bush said, "tell me."
"The 38,000 American troops right on the border." ..."If nothing else counts, this counts. One shot across the border and you lose half these people immediately. You lose 15,000 Americans in a chemical or biological or even regular attack. The United State of America is at war instantly."
"Hmmm," Bush said. "I wish those assholes would put things just point-blank to me. I get half a book telling me about the history of North Korea."
"Now I tell you another answer to that. You don't want to care about North Korea anymore?" Bandar asked. The Saudis wanted America to focus on the Middle East and not get drawn into a conflict in East Asia.
"I didn't say that," Bush replied.
"But if you don't, you withdrawl those troops back. Then it becomes a local conflict. Then you have the whole time to decide, 'Should I get involved? Not involved?' Etc."
At that moment, Colin Powell approached.
"Colin," Bush said, "come here. Bandar and I were shooting the bull, just two fighter pilots shooting the bull." He didn't mention the topic.
"Mr. Governor," Bandar said, "General Powell is almost a fighter pilot. He can shoot the bull almost as good as us."

Bob Woodward
State of Denial
2006

[ChumpDumper]

Where did you hear that from?It's no secret. You could Google "agreed framework" and probably find a synopsis. The light water power plant was our bribe to them to not make heavy water plants, along with fuel oil shipments. Neither side lived up to the agreement.

[johnsmith]

It's no secret. You could Google "agreed framework" and probably find a synopsis. The light water power plant was our bribe to them to not make heavy water plants, along with fuel oil shipments. Neither side lived up to the agreement.


I honestly wasn't trying to be a dick there, I was curious about it.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not saying the Agreed Framework was a great idea. I just wanted to clear up the power plant detail. Whatever fissible material that goes into NK's bombs did not and does not come from a US built or financed reactor.

[whottt]

Not really much either.

Our responses are limited by their potential to put missles into Tokyo and Seoul.

I think we should just withdraw from the Korean penninsula altogether.

It would make the South Koreans happier, and they can defend themselves anyways.


Chump, your thoughts?

[spurster]

If you read the Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.-North_Korea_relations

you would learn lots of things. In particular, that Clinton's policies were succeeding, at least keeping things from getting worse. BushCo, in his infinite wisdom, decided that Clinton's policies were not good enough and that it was better to antagonize NK ("Axis of Evil") and show little if any commitment to the 1994 agreement.

[whottt]

BTW, since we never signed a peace treaty with North Korea I am pretty sure this violated the terms of the cease fire signed over 50 years ago...


So for all you libs who don't understand how this works, see: Iraq, when we drop the hammer on their asses and poor innocent civillians start dying, and the libs whine about our unilateral policy, just know, we signed a cease fire with them, not a peace treaty. A cease fire isn't a peace treaty...and NK is in violation of the cease fire and therefore the war is ours to start at any point, if we choose to do so, just like Iraq.


And I also feel sorry for the idiots that draw moral equivalancies between us and North Korea...one country is one that people die trying to get out of, the other is one people die trying to get into...figure it out, douchebags, and develop an unretarded sense of right and wrong.

[ChumpDumper]

It would be interesting to see what the South Koreans want. They have a much different attitude towards the north, and their sympathy towards their relatives up there could lead to a certain naivete or wishful thinking about NK's government. It is noteworthy that Kim's main fear is the US, not the south. I haven't been following Kim closely, but I never hear him make declarations about taking over the south the way, say, Iran makes declarations about destroying Israel. In short, RG may be on to something here. It's not like we wouldn't be close enough to help out from the sea or Japan if it came down to it. I don't have a clear enough line on Kim's intentions to give a definitive answer, which I suppose is a vote for the status quo.

[JoeChalupa]

BTW, since we never signed a peace treaty with North Korea I am pretty sure this violated the terms of the cease fire signed over 50 years ago...


So for all you libs who don't understand how this works, see: Iraq, when we drop the hammer on their asses and poor innocent civillians start dying, and the libs whine about our unilateral policy, just know, we signed a cease fire with them, not a peace treaty. A cease fire isn't a peace treaty...and NK is in violation of the cease fire and therefore the war is ours to start at any point, if we choose to do so, just like Iraq.


And I also feel sorry for the idiots that draw moral equivalancies between us and North Korea...one country is one that people die trying to get out of, the other is one people die trying to get into...figure it out, douchebags, and develop an unretarded sense of right and wrong.

Since when did the US care so much about treaty's?
Sincerely,
Native America

What is Bush's plan? He says NK testing is unacceptable. What is the plan?
He's known for years NK was close to testing a nuclear weapon. What is his plan?
It has been said that NK has a choice of having a future or NOT having a future if they did the test. What is the plan?

[George Gervin's Afro]

BTW, since we never signed a peace treaty with North Korea I am pretty sure this violated the terms of the cease fire signed over 50 years ago...


So for all you libs who don't understand how this works, see: Iraq, when we drop the hammer on their asses and poor innocent civillians start dying, and the libs whine about our unilateral policy, just know, we signed a cease fire with them, not a peace treaty. A cease fire isn't a peace treaty...and NK is in violation of the cease fire and therefore the war is ours to start at any point, if we choose to do so, just like Iraq.


And I also feel sorry for the idiots that draw moral equivalancies between us and North Korea...one country is one that people die trying to get out of, the other is one people die trying to get into...figure it out, douchebags, and develop an unretarded sense of right and wrong.

what do the killing of innocent Iraqis have to do with North Korea and our unilateral policy? By the way you must be proud of the way things are going in Iraq.. The well thought out post war plan is what impresses me the most.

Hey whott the US isn't perfect and there are some people who share this great earth that feel they should have the right to do whatever they want within their own boundries.

I once heard that if you carry the big stick you must only use it when necessary and even then find a way of not using it.

[velik_m]

Not really much either.

Our responses are limited by their potential to put missles into Tokyo and Seoul.

I think we should just withdraw from the Korean penninsula altogether.

It would make the South Koreans happier, and they can defend themselves anyways.

sure, but not right now. It would look like a direct result of this test. maybe next xmas.

[ChumpDumper]

If you read the Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.-North_Korea_relations

you would learn lots of things. In particular, that Clinton's policies were succeeding, at least keeping things from getting worse. BushCo, in his infinite wisdom, decided that Clinton's policies were not good enough and that it was better to antagonize NK ("Axis of Evil") and show little if any commitment to the 1994 agreement.I wouldn't say they were succeeding. Unfortunately, the KEDO organization we were in with Japan and ROK missed alot of construction and fuel oil delivery deadlines -- this happened under both Clinton and Bush -- which gave Kim a reason or excuse not to trust us and continue his weapons progam and took away a little of our moral high ground in being an honest broker/negotiator internationally.

[velik_m]

BTW, since we never signed a peace treaty with North Korea I am pretty sure this violated the terms of the cease fire signed over 50 years ago...


So for all you libs who don't understand how this works, see: Iraq, when we drop the hammer on their asses and poor innocent civillians start dying, and the libs whine about our unilateral policy, just know, we signed a cease fire with them, not a peace treaty. A cease fire isn't a peace treaty...and NK is in violation of the cease fire and therefore the war is ours to start at any point, if we choose to do so, just like Iraq.


And I also feel sorry for the idiots that draw moral equivalancies between us and North Korea...one country is one that people die trying to get out of, the other is one people die trying to get into...figure it out, douchebags, and develop an unretarded sense of right and wrong.

whottt, how exactly did this violate the cease fire?

[whottt]

It would be interesting to see what the South Koreans want. They have a much different attitude towards the north, and their sympathy towards their relatives up there could lead to a certain naivete or wishful thinking about NK's government. It is noteworthy that Kim's main fear is the US, not the south. I haven't been following Kim closely, but I never hear him make declarations about taking over the south the way, say, Iran makes declarations about destroying Israel. In short, RG may be on to something here. It's not like we wouldn't be close enough to help out from the sea or Japan if it came down to it. I don't have a clear enough line on Kim's intentions to give a definitive answer, which I suppose is a vote for the status quo.


Classic

[ChumpDumper]

ClassicWell, I just wish I knew what Kim was thinking. If his main fear is an invasion by the US, and tensions there would be eased by a redeployment of US troops -- maybe.

I'm trying to be less emotional about it even though my girlfriend's parents are currently in Korea. Sue me.

[johnsmith]

Well, I just wish I knew what Kim was thinking. If his main fear is an invasion by the US, and tensions there would be eased by a redeployment of US troops -- maybe.

I'm trying to be less emotional about it even though my girlfriend's parents are currently in Korea. Sue me.


Liar.

[whottt]

Since when did the US care so much about treaty's?
Sincerely,
Native America

I love it when Mexicans try to pull the slavery, race, slaugter of native americans card...

Sincerely,

The Aztecs




What is Bush's plan? He says NK testing is unacceptable. What is the plan?

Multilateral action with the regional powers? Same thing you libs wanted in Iraq...difference is that Saddam and WMD are no longer a concern.

NK has always been included in the axis of assholes...



He's known for years NK was close to testing a nuclear weapon. What is his plan?
It has been said that NK has a choice of having a future or NOT having a future if they did the test. What is the plan?

What is your plan Joe?

You are the one condemning unilateral action in Iraq...why is NK different?

[DarkReign]

Liar.

Bullshit. I have a brother-in-law and 3 employees in S. Korea as we speak.

They said they didnt feel a thing (not that I expected them to, just thought to ask). They are right near Seoul.

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE=JoeChalupa]Since when did the US care so much about treaty's?
Sincerely,
Native America
I think everyone's aware of the broken promises Joe, but there isn't anyone living that was involved with those treaties so what's your point?


What is Bush's plan? He says NK testing is unacceptable. What is the plan?
He's known for years NK was close to testing a nuclear weapon. What is his plan?
This is hardly a just a problem for Bush and the U.S., so more than a Bush solution is needed. The better question is "What is the World's plan"?

[whottt]

whottt, how exactly did this violate the cease fire?

It's an offensive weapons build up...


And the point is...there was never a peace treaty signed with North Korea. The War never officially ended...the UN sanctioned war I might addd...then again, the original Persian Gulf War was also UN sanctioned and no peace treaty was ever signed, and Saddam violated just about every condition of the cease fire agreement...and all that still hasn't stopped morons from claiming we acted unilaterally.

[JoeChalupa]

I love it when Mexicans try to pull the slavery, race, slaugter of native americans card...

Sincerely,

The Aztecs

Just stating a fact.




Multilateral action with the regional powers? Same thing you libs wanted in Iraq...difference is that Saddam and WMD are no longer a concern.

NK has always been included in the axis of assholes...

Saddam and WMD were NEVER a concern 'cause the WMD never existed.

[/quote]




What is your plan Joe?

You are the one condemning unilateral action in Iraq...why is NK different?

Where did I ever condemn unilateral action in Iraq? Oh, that's right I didn't. Unilateral action WILL be required in NK.

[johnsmith]

Bullshit. I have a brother-in-law and 3 employees in S. Korea as we speak.

They said they didnt feel a thing (not that I expected them to, just thought to ask). They are right near Seoul.


I was calling him liar in regards to his alleged "girlfriend".

[xrayzebra]

I am just wondering. To some on this board
President Bush is the enemy. Iran, Iraq and NK
are not. Seems strange to me.

Also, seems really strange. Get out of Iraq and
get into Iran and NK.

And then you already have some on here who
just want us out of everywhere.

But I have question for all of you. Where were
we when 9/11 occurred? Where were we when
they bombed the WTC the first time.

I am not trying to blame anyone, because really
in some ways it is no Presidents fault that either
incident occurred ON OUR SOIL. It was the
terrorist fault. It is self defeating that we blame
anyone but those that committed the act.

I do blame the politicians in as much as they
want to take a damn poll and feel the public's
pulse before taking any action. I blame some
people who demonstrate the feelings displayed on
this board that they feel we are the one's wrong
because we mistreated someone, either real or
imagined. If we had just done this or that every-
thing would be peachy creamy and all would
be right with the world.

We have those right now wanting us to go into
Dafur and other regions where the Muslims are
stirring up things and protect the poor and
innocent. And I ask, do you blame the Muslims
for these problems? Or is all that our fault for
not going in and protecting them. And where do
we start blaming US for the problem. Bush,
Clinton, The Other Bush, Regan, Carter....dealers
choice.

Once again, I ask who is our enemy. Us or them?

[whottt]

Well anyone that thinks NK isn't going to at some point try to take over the Peninsula is extremely naive...even if Kim Jong Il doesn't want to(laughable, weeds always try to take over the garden), China will....the have nots are always harder to manage when the haves are in plain sight.


At least this time when we go in, we won't have to both fight both the Russians, and the Chinese. Just the Chinese...

[jochhejaam]

Kim Jong's rep says N.K. should be congratulated for the test, rather than condemned.

Okay. Congratulation Shorty, you have probably contributed to more malnutrition and starvation for your people (not that you care).

Does anyone have Shorty's fax?

[JoeChalupa]

All the talk is really nothing more than posturing because the U.S., Japan and China have to talk tough even if they don't really mean it.
Nuclear powers have to say they will do everything they can to prevent another country from gaining nuclear weapons because once another country has them, there is very little they can do about it.
The big question now is if the U.S., China, South Korea, Japan and Russia are able to convince NK that they really mean what they say. Which is easier said than done.

[whottt]

It would be interesting to see what the South Koreans want. They have a much different attitude towards the north, and their sympathy towards their relatives up there could lead to a certain naivete or wishful thinking about NK's government.


Well there's a real simple solution to that dilemma...just have them hop their asses across the DMZ and have a starve in with their kinfolk for a few weeks....

[whottt]

Why does anyone really think that China is on our side in this?

Get serious.

[whottt]

Just stating a fact.




Saddam and WMD were NEVER a concern 'cause the WMD never existed.





So we should have waited until they did?

Saddam should have thought about that before he kicked all the weapons inspectors out...


And I remain unconvinced that he did not have them...we only gave him 3 fucking months to move them...he's not freaking stupid.





Where did I ever condemn unilateral action in Iraq? Oh, that's right I didn't. Unilateral action WILL be required in NK.


It won't be as unilateral as you think....

[xrayzebra]

Here you go:

US detects second N Korea 'blast'



From correspondents in Washington

October 10, 2006 03:11am
Article from: Agence France-Presse





US intelligence has detected an explosion of less than one kilotonne in magnitude in North Korea but has not been able to determine whether it was nuclear or not, a senior intelligence official said.

The official, who asked not to be identified, said that first-time nuclear tests historically have been in the several kilotonne range.

“We are aware that there was a sub-kilotonne explosion in North Korea,” said the official. “We have not been able to determine at this point whether it was in fact nuclear.”

[DarkReign]

Why does anyone really think that China is on our side in this?

Get serious.

They are simply playing both sides. Speaking from both sides of their mouth. Their new economy is largely based on US companies. If we pull out, they are screwed.

So they appease their temporary bedfellow long enough to steal his wallet.

Why people are so afraid of China is beyond me. 100 million soldiers, sure. 100 million soldiers on foot, walking to America is a completely different analogy all together.

Let them have their moment in the sun. If its war NK wants, they will move toward their goal soon enough. When they do, they will make mistakes just like every other nation beating the drums of war.

[JoeChalupa]

Here you go:

US detects second N Korea 'blast'



From correspondents in Washington

October 10, 2006 03:11am
Article from: Agence France-Presse





US intelligence has detected an explosion of less than one kilotonne in magnitude in North Korea but has not been able to determine whether it was nuclear or not, a senior intelligence official said.

The official, who asked not to be identified, said that first-time nuclear tests historically have been in the several kilotonne range.

“We are aware that there was a sub-kilotonne explosion in North Korea,” said the official. “We have not been able to determine at this point whether it was in fact nuclear.”

That's close enough for my liberal bitching ass. :cuss

[jochhejaam]

Well there's a real simple solution to that dilemma...just have them hop their asses across the DMZ and have a starve in with their kinfolk for a few weeks....
The North Korean diet

Breakfast: Boiled rice mixed with water, kimchi (fermented cabbage), barley tea and crackers.

Lunch : Boiled rice or maize porridge, kimchi, cold noodles, beer or soju.

Evening meal : Boiled rice, kimchi, boiled/fried potato or potato cutlets, a couple of salads (cucumber, mixed vegetables), an egg and cold noodles.

Once or twice a week : There could be meat (mainly pork) – maybe 100g (three oz) per person, added in soup or mixed with vegetables.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/08/wnkorea108.xml

[ChumpDumper]

Well anyone that thinks NK is going to at some point try to take over the Peninsula is extremely naive.I take it you meant to put "isn't" between NK and going.

Long term you are probably correct, but i'm not sure if nukes would play a role in that if North Korea wishes to preserve much of the industrial base of the south. Now if a Pol Pot type wackjob was in power, it might be a different story -- but now one might conclude that NK's ultimate goal might be a China-style economy, one where a glowing, uninhabitable south might not be desirable.

Of course, once other countries get involved and the NK government is fighting for its survival, all bets are off.

So much of the current situation depends on one personality; it's troubling that we have zero contact with this person to get a read on his intentions. I suppose my overriding hope is that NK finally just collapses on itself like eastern Europe. It probably wouldn't happen until Kim is gone though. Hopefully he doesn't get more paranoid and apocalyptic as he gets older.

[whottt]

what do the killing of innocent Iraqis have to do with North Korea and our unilateral policy?

People pay the price for their governments...best to make sure that government treats you well.




By the way you must be proud of the way things are going in Iraq.. The well thought out post war plan is what impresses me the most.

It's a fucking war...and our military kicked the shit out of and continues to kick the shit out of those we fight...if you'd rather be the terrorists in this conflict you must go around punching peoples fist with your face often.



Hey whott the US isn't perfect and there are some people who share this great earth that feel they should have the right to do whatever they want within their own boundries.

Even if it means enslaving and taking away the rights of others?

If they kill the people trying to get out of their country...there's a problem with that country.





I once heard that if you carry the big stick you must only use it when necessary and even then find a way of not using it.

If everyone shared that philosophy the world would be a different place...unfortunately, everyone does not share that philosophy and these regimes you are unable to discern as different from us enslave their people and stay in power via authoritarian military rule...

[xrayzebra]

The North Korean diet

Breakfast: Boiled rice mixed with water, kimchi (fermented cabbage), barley tea and crackers.

Lunch : Boiled rice or maize porridge, kimchi, cold noodles, beer or soju.

Evening meal : Boiled rice, kimchi, boiled/fried potato or potato cutlets, a couple of salads (cucumber, mixed vegetables), an egg and cold noodles.

Once or twice a week : There could be meat (mainly pork) – maybe 100g (three oz) per person, added in soup or mixed with vegetables.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/08/wnkorea108.xml


Hey, sounds like what the anti-McDonald's crowd
want us all to eat. No fat.............

[FortuneCookie]

Good sense is the master of human life.

Lucky Numbers: 2, 7, 11, 15, 21, 33

[Ocotillo]

Well now for some good news. Seems the test was likely a dud.

Janes (http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jdw/jdw061009_2_n.shtml)

North Korea claims nuclear test

By Joseph Bermudez Jr JDW Correspondent
Colorado

Initial South Korean Ministry of Defence and National Intelligence Service reports indicated that a 3.58-3.7-magnitude blast was detected emanating from a North Korean nuclear test at 10.36 am local time (01:36 GMT). Subsequent reports from the US Geological Survey (USGS) place the magnitude of the tremor at 4.2 on the Richter scale. The difference in the reports is due to the fact that the USGS assessment, being somewhat later, was able to incorporate a larger number of sensor reports in its preparation.

The USGS data identifies the time and location of the blast as 9 October at 01:35:27 (GMT) and centred at 41.311—N, 129.114—E at a depth 0-1 km. This places the site approximately 42 km northwest of Kilchu, in the province of North Hamgyong, on the remote slopes of Mant'ap-san Mountain. This coincides with reports that first appeared during 2005 of suspicious tunnelling and construction activities in the area. Subsequent reports during the past month indicate that the North Koreans had excavated a 700 m-long horizontal tunnel under Mant'ap-san.

Although details are tentative, initial and unconfirmed South Korean reports indicate that the test was a fission device with a yield of .55 kT. By comparison the nuclear bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima yielded approximately 12.5 kT. The figure of .55 kT, however, seems too low given the 4.2 register on the Richter scale. This could suggest - depending upon the geological make-up of the test site - a yield of 2-12 kT. If, however, the lower yield is correct, it would suggest that the test had been a "pre- or post-detonation" event (ie a failure), as it had been anticipated that North Korea's first nuclear test would have a significantly higher yield.

[RandomGuy]

Well now for some good news. Seems the test was likely a dud.

Janes (http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jdw/jdw061009_2_n.shtml)

North Korea claims nuclear test

By Joseph Bermudez Jr JDW Correspondent
Colorado

Initial South Korean Ministry of Defence and National Intelligence Service reports indicated that a 3.58-3.7-magnitude blast was detected emanating from a North Korean nuclear test at 10.36 am local time (01:36 GMT). Subsequent reports from the US Geological Survey (USGS) place the magnitude of the tremor at 4.2 on the Richter scale. The difference in the reports is due to the fact that the USGS assessment, being somewhat later, was able to incorporate a larger number of sensor reports in its preparation.

The USGS data identifies the time and location of the blast as 9 October at 01:35:27 (GMT) and centred at 41.311—N, 129.114—E at a depth 0-1 km. This places the site approximately 42 km northwest of Kilchu, in the province of North Hamgyong, on the remote slopes of Mant'ap-san Mountain. This coincides with reports that first appeared during 2005 of suspicious tunnelling and construction activities in the area. Subsequent reports during the past month indicate that the North Koreans had excavated a 700 m-long horizontal tunnel under Mant'ap-san.

Although details are tentative, initial and unconfirmed South Korean reports indicate that the test was a fission device with a yield of .55 kT. By comparison the nuclear bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima yielded approximately 12.5 kT. The figure of .55 kT, however, seems too low given the 4.2 register on the Richter scale. This could suggest - depending upon the geological make-up of the test site - a yield of 2-12 kT. If, however, the lower yield is correct, it would suggest that the test had been a "pre- or post-detonation" event (ie a failure), as it had been anticipated that North Korea's first nuclear test would have a significantly higher yield.


Whadya expect? It was made in North Korea after all. :lol

Based on the performance of their recent missle launches, I would not expect much from their nuclear "arsenal" (emphasis on the word "arse")

[PixelPusher]

Considering uranium is North Korea's only trump card, it's understandable they would spend it sparingly.

[Guru of Nothing]

Hey, sounds like what the anti-McDonald's crowd
want us all to eat.

There's a pro-McDonald's crowd? ... should I assume they are Republican?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Here's the irony - no WMDs in Iraq, yet everyone knows that North Korea has been working up to this, and now they've done it. Not only that, but Kim Jong Il and family are just crazy enough to use what they've made.

23,000,000 people run by a truly nasty authoritarian regime which starves its people. Anyone think that maybe North Korea should have been the country invaded in 2003? It would've still been an economic boon to the arms manufacturers/logistics companies, and I doubt there'd be a civil war once those people were freed from the hell of their dictator! Win-win as far as I can see. Might've cost you a few more troops though, and who knows what biological/chemical nightmares they have stockpiled to unleash on the south...

[boutons_]

Iran is learning the lesson of the USA "Macho Men" wimping out vs. NK.

You don't even need nuclear capability, just a huge, well-equipped, paid, and motivated army with lots of munitions, rockets, etc and deep, hardened fortifications and the USA will decide an invasion would be too damn costly.

Russia collapsed due to starvation of hard petro-dollars when the price of oil collapsed in the mid-80s, and Russia's thin, old industry was simpley exhausted trying to support the Russians in Afghanistan.

NK has even a weaker industrial base to support an army and war. Who would supply NK with oil during a war? Chavez? No oil, no diesel, no tanks, no trucks, no logistics. NK is easy to blockade for oil and other raw materials.

Remember, even the British Navy couldn't make it to the Falklands in 1982 without the USA supplying diesel all along the way.

So the question really is whether China would support NK logistically against the USA? or would China stand by and just let that pesky, unpredictable NK be neutralized by the USA?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

[quo]You don't even need nuclear capability, just a huge, well-equipped, paid, and motivated army with lots of munitions, rockets, etc and deep, hardened fortifications and the USA will decide an invasion would be too damn costly.[/quote]

That's right, it's called the Red Army of the People's Republic of China, you fucking idiot.

[01Snake]

GERTZ: U.S. doubts Korean test was nuclear; Readings fall short of atomic explosion... MORE...

U.S. intelligence agencies say, based on preliminary indications, that North Korea did not produce its first nuclear blast yesterday, WASHINGTON TIMES star reporter Bill Gertz is set to report in Tuesday editions.

U.S. officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that seismic readings show that the conventional high explosives used to create a chain reaction in a plutonium-based device went off, but that the blast's readings were shy of a typical nuclear detonation.

The underground explosion, which Pyongyang dubbed a historic nuclear test, is thought to have been the equivalent of several hundred tons of TNT, far short of the several thousand tons of TNT, or kilotons, that are signs of a nuclear blast, the official said. Developing...

[PixelPusher]

lol at the new avatar, 01Snake.

"Aw, Mrax Brix!"

[01Snake]

lol at the new avatar, 01Snake.

"Aw, Mrax Brix!"

:lol

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/paramount_pictures/team_america__world_police/adversary.jpg

[PixelPusher]

GERTZ: U.S. doubts Korean test was nuclear; Readings fall short of atomic explosion... MORE...

U.S. intelligence agencies say, based on preliminary indications, that North Korea did not produce its first nuclear blast yesterday, WASHINGTON TIMES star reporter Bill Gertz is set to report in Tuesday editions.

U.S. officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that seismic readings show that the conventional high explosives used to create a chain reaction in a plutonium-based device went off, but that the blast's readings were shy of a typical nuclear detonation.

The underground explosion, which Pyongyang dubbed a historic nuclear test, is thought to have been the equivalent of several hundred tons of TNT, far short of the several thousand tons of TNT, or kilotons, that are signs of a nuclear blast, the official said. Developing...

that in itself is pretty odd, since you don't need hundreds of tons of explosives to trigger a nuclear reaction. It's either a deliberate hoax, or a teeny, tiny nuclear warhead.

[boutons_]

"People's Republic of China"

ah! Long before you were born, we heard this canard about PRC wanting to invade VN if and when the American quit VN. It just was just as true as the domino theory.

The US underestimated the NVN desire for its own VN nation, aka, nationalism, NOT to be PRC-occupied serf colony.

Similiarly, Iraqis, no matter how divided, now see the USA invaders and long-term US miltary bases as an insult to their nationalism, an impediment to peace, an incitement to more violence, not less.

With the way the economy is going in PRC, and the corrupt (non-Communist) power structure enriching itself by many $Bs, and total suppression of dissent (even in the USA), I doubt PRC would bother to interfere if the USA reduced NK to rubble.

The question the PRC has would the USA also stand-by as PRC took over Taiwan?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol Where did you steal that post from croutons? Before you were born. :lol

You don't think the PRC would be concerned with having US troops in its backyard, particularly if the confrontation went nuclear?

You're dumber than I thought.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't get it. If the bomb was a fizzle, its not going to produce a 4.0 quake. Also, the US is gioing to act as if the blast actualy occured because that gives them the most leverage in the UN.

[boutons_]

No matter whait it was, nuclar or tnt, pop or fizzle, NK announced it as a nuclear "fuck you".

dubya response is "ok, you've fucked me. I be stayin the course"

[RandomGuy]

NK has even a weaker industrial base to support an army and war. Who would supply NK with oil during a war? Chavez? No oil, no diesel, no tanks, no trucks, no logistics. NK is easy to blockade for oil and other raw materials.

Remember, even the British Navy couldn't make it to the Falklands in 1982 without the USA supplying diesel all along the way.

So the question really is whether China would support NK logistically against the USA? or would China stand by and just let that pesky, unpredictable NK be neutralized by the USA?

The North Koreans have a very weak industrial base, but even that weak industrial base has had 50 years to prepare, with no small amount of Chinese support.

China sees the PDRK as a buffer between them and South Korea, who has been regarded as a puppet of the US.

I think this is a case where the presence of American troops actually accomplishes the opposite of what we intended to do.

South Koreas military is more than sufficient to stop North Korea, and is supported by a well-developed industrial base.

The need for US troops here is 10 years gone.

As for what to do about NK:

Nuthin. Let them have their happy fun bomb. It will be unreliable and crappy, as will the "missles" they try to put them on.

North Korea probably has a few prototype weapons, but nothing really credible. If NK ever does decide to go bonkers, let the Chinese deal with it. They want a buffer, let them pay the price. A billion Chinese can *probably* handle a country 2% their size on their border.

The funny thing about China's recent industrialization and joining of the global community, is that their economic interests and the US's have more in common than you might think.

Just my stream of consciousness thinking on the subject.

[Spurminator]

lol @ Drudge...

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/606/drudgekimjongilki8.jpg

[Ozzman]

Here's the irony - no WMDs in Iraq, yet everyone knows that North Korea has been working up to this, and now they've done it. Not only that, but Kim Jong Il and family are just crazy enough to use what they've made.

23,000,000 people run by a truly nasty authoritarian regime which starves its people. Anyone think that maybe North Korea should have been the country invaded in 2003? It would've still been an economic boon to the arms manufacturers/logistics companies, and I doubt there'd be a civil war once those people were freed from the hell of their dictator! Win-win as far as I can see. Might've cost you a few more troops though, and who knows what biological/chemical nightmares they have stockpiled to unleash on the south...


:clap :clap :clap

[CubanMustGo]

:clap :clap :clap

Well, trying to invade NK (even with full US armed forces) ain't that easy. The NKs have a whole shitload of stuff aimed at Seoul which is just 60 miles from the border. US tries anything and bang there go a couple hundred thousand ROK citizens. Also, the military is much better fed and supplied than you might think thanks to Kim-Il's "military first" policy. There are something like a million troops in the NK army, most of whom are within 30 miles of the border. The NKs have been preparing for an invasion for 50 years and things are scattered, hardened, and hidden. They have huge empty highways (only the party faithful have cars) which can be used to rapidly move materiel around, and which also can be sabotaged to present a formidable barrier to invading forces.

Pyongyang, 200 miles from the DMZ, is largely a Potemkin village. The NKs probably have removed key military infrastructure from the area since it is such a blindingly obvious target. Either that, or buried it deep in their underground Metro which is widely believed to hardened enough to survive nuclear impacts.

And let's don't forget that the PRC got involved the LAST time US forces got anywhere near the border. They wouldn't just sit by if we invaded unless there was some incredibly serious quid-pro-quo going on behind the scenes.

All that said, hell yeah I wish we weren't so invested in Iraq so our options were still all available.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Well, trying to invade NK (even with full US armed forces) ain't that easy. The NKs have a whole shitload of stuff aimed at Seoul which is just 60 miles from the border. US tries anything and bang there go a couple hundred thousand ROK citizens.

You're absolutely right, I was being a bit flippant. I'd say more like a couple of million ROK citizens, because I'm sure NK has stockpiles of alll sorts of chemical and biological weapons they'd use without hestitation.

It's far more likely that the Japanese and South Koreans will now develop their own bombs and we have another MAD little playground to add to India-Pakistan-Iran, and of course the global superpowers (although I don't worry about their using nukes so much as they have reasonably stable govts and tight command and control procedures).

[jochhejaam]

It's far more likely that the Japanese and South Koreans will now develop their own bombs and we have another MAD little playground to add to India-Pakistan-Iran, and of course the global superpowers
Aren't they signatories of the Non-Proliferation Treaty?

[RandomGuy]

Well, trying to invade NK (even with full US armed forces) ain't that easy. The NKs have a whole shitload of stuff aimed at Seoul which is just 60 miles from the border. US tries anything and bang there go a couple hundred thousand ROK citizens. Also, the military is much better fed and supplied than you might think thanks to Kim-Il's "military first" policy. There are something like a million troops in the NK army, most of whom are within 30 miles of the border. The NKs have been preparing for an invasion for 50 years and things are scattered, hardened, and hidden. They have huge empty highways (only the party faithful have cars) which can be used to rapidly move materiel around, and which also can be sabotaged to present a formidable barrier to invading forces.

Pyongyang, 200 miles from the DMZ, is largely a Potemkin village. The NKs probably have removed key military infrastructure from the area since it is such a blindingly obvious target. Either that, or buried it deep in their underground Metro which is widely believed to hardened enough to survive nuclear impacts.

And let's don't forget that the PRC got involved the LAST time US forces got anywhere near the border. They wouldn't just sit by if we invaded unless there was some incredibly serious quid-pro-quo going on behind the scenes.

All that said, hell yeah I wish we weren't so invested in Iraq so our options were still all available.

Why should we bother sending in our army?

Let NK do what it wants, and let China handle their "little brother".

If NK goes nuts on anybody, the Chinese will be the first ones in there, AFTER they have cut off the massive aid that is propping up the NK government now.

SK is becoming a big trading partner with China, and China needs all the investment it can get to deal with its rapid industrialization.

[RandomGuy]

Looking at any military situation without the corresponding economic and political background limits one's thinking.

[RandomGuy]

Here's a thought:

Tell China that if they don't reign in their puppet, we stop buying Chinese goods.

Not that I think we should do this, or that it is a good thing to do, but it is a way to leverage NK that they can't do anything about.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Aren't they signatories of the Non-Proliferation Treaty?

I think they are, but I'm not sure. Either way, it doesn't take much to back out of a treaty, especially one your neighbours are violating.

Having lived for two years in Japan, I would not be surprised to see a major internal political push towards reforming their constitution to allow for nuclear weapons, even though most Japanese abhor them... how that will play with the US is the $64,000 question. Maybe it will fracture the relationship, but more likely the US will station some nukes in Japan as a deterent to NK.

The next decade on the Korean peninsula will be a very dicey indeed.