Another one (mvp)for Nash?

[ducks]

Another one for Nash?

By Steve Kerr, Yahoo! Sports
October 7, 2006





ROME – Steve Nash's performance in the Phoenix Suns' preseason opener Friday night – a 100-93 victory over the Italian team Lottomatica Roma – was not exactly the stuff that MVPs are made of.

The man who has won the league's top individual award two consecutive years appeared rather mortal playing against a host of obscure Italian guards. Nash's line, in fact, is only worth mentioning because it was so un-Nash-like: five points on five shots, nine assists and six turnovers in 31 minutes of action.

Still, ask any of the Suns' coaches why the team was able to win, despite the jet lag, overall lack of team conditioning this early in the preseason and the unfamiliarity with the opponent, and all would point to Nash. He sets the tone for Phoenix with his constant pushing of the ball, his penetration and his knack for creating easy shots for his teammates. Even on his worst days, Nash still is the motor that keeps the Suns running.

But if you hadn't seen Steve Nash play a basketball game, you might have left the Rome arena Friday night thinking, "Does this guy really have a chance to join Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell and Larry Bird as the only players in NBA history to win three MVPs in a row?" Sometimes it boggles the mind that a player so physically underwhelming – Nash is 6-foot-2, 180 pounds and not particularly explosive – could be one of the top players in a league of thoroughbred athletes who run so fast and jump so high.

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But when you watch him closely, you realize just how good he is in so many areas. The ball handling – both dribbling and passing – is amazing. His use of the left hand creates more passing angles than most players have in their sights. His change of pace and deception allows Nash to get past bigger, stronger defenders, and his shooting is exceptional. Last season he became one of the only NBA players in history to shoot better than 50 percent from the field, 40 percent from the three-point line and 90 percent on his free throws.

Perhaps most importantly, Nash seems to know the right play to make on every possession because he constantly is assessing the defense and making the choice whether to shoot or pass. Plus, his understanding of angles and ability to keep shotblockers off guard allows him to do what most small guards can't do: finish at the rim.

But even if you watch Nash and pick up on all of the physical qualities he offers his team, it’s the intangible ones that elevate him a step higher. He takes the blame on turnovers, pointing to his chest and making sure he lets his teammates off the hook even when they’re at fault. He listens to his coaches, encourages his team and plays through mistakes, generating positive energy in the process.

And he always seems to be in the right position defensively, plugging holes in the lane and helping stop penetration. In fact, against Lottomatica on Friday, Nash took a couple of charges and had six steals, many while stepping into passing lanes. And when the game is on the line, and other players are shrinking at the thought of taking the big shot, Nash is the one who steps up for Phoenix and demands the ball.

Is Nash really capable of etching his name next to three NBA immortals by winning the MVP award for a third consecutive season? It will be difficult, but then again, nobody expected him to be in the running the first two times. Nash was able to win the award twice because his stellar play and leadership led Phoenix to a couple of startling seasons.
In 2004-05, Phoenix came out of nowhere and won 62 games with Nash directing a fast-paced, entertaining team. As an encore, Nash led the Suns to 54 wins last season, despite most experts predicting about a .500 mark with the absence of the injured Amare Stoudemire. In other words, the two awards came in large part because of Phoenix exceeding expectations.

This season, with Stoudemire back in the fold, the Suns are one of the favorites to win the NBA title, and exceeding expectations isn't possible. They're supposed to be great, and Nash is one of the main reasons why. He won't sneak up on anyone.

Not that he'd want to. Nash has only one goal remaining in his NBA career, and that's to win a ring. Placing another MVP trophy on his mantle doesn't even enter his mind. Winning a title is what it's about for him, and in order to do so he will need more rest during the regular season. Last season, Nash played in 81 games and averaged a career-high 35.4 minutes a game. That's one reason the Suns signed Marcus Banks to a free-agent contract in the offseason. They would like for Banks to provide Nash with quality backup minutes so that Nash will be better rested and healthier for the playoffs.

For his part, Nash is as healthy as ever. His back, which has caused problems over the years, is fine due to continued work with his physical therapist. Nash spent the summer playing soccer in New York, maintaining his conditioning while refreshing his mind playing his "other" favorite sport. He seems as energized and physically prepared as ever, as does his team. The Suns are getting ready to take a run at a championship, and Nash is at the controls. He couldn't be happier.

Still, even if Phoenix wins its first title in franchise history, it's tough to see the names Chamberlain, Bird, Russell and Nash on a list of all-time greats next to each other. The most unassuming MVP in the history of the NBA couldn't possibly win another one … or could he?


Steve Kerr is Yahoo! Sports' NBA analyst. Send Steve a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

[JMarkJohns]

No...

[Zunni]

Nope. A lot of people didn't want to vote for him the first time. A WHOLE lot of people held their noses last year. Steve Nash just isn't an immortal, and that's what voters would be saying if they gave him #3 in a row.

[RogerIsEatingASandwich]

No. No way he gets three in a row.

[Texas_Ranger]

No.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Hell no, He's a top 5 pg but no way in hell he gets it a third year in a row.

[ShoogarBear]

Sure, he'll win three in a row, and DPOY, too.

[mavsfan1000]

Nash is on the decline. His back will start to give out on him and he will be injured more this upcoming year.

[The_Game]

Nash is on the decline. His back will start to give out on him and he will be injured more this upcoming year.

Thats what mavs fan have been hoping for the past two years :lol just simply isn't going to happen

[1Parker1]

It'll be a joke if he wins it again...

[Obstructed_View]

It'll be a joke if he wins it again...
It was a joke that he won it at all. Why shouldn't he win it again? Magic won MVP 3 times, doesn't Nash deserve to be right next to him?

[101A]

Amazingly, not only do I not consider Nash all that, but there are THREE players on his OWN team (if Amare is healthy) who I'd take in silver & black before him!

[LilMissSPURfect]

immortal......nah...

[nkdlunch]

why not, weirder things have happened, like the Heat winning last year...

a lot of hate for Nash here but I'd take him over parker in a millisecond

[bdictjames]

Three words for MVP folks:

"No.24"

[mavsfan1000]

Amazingly, not only do I not consider Nash all that, but there are THREE players on his OWN team (if Amare is healthy) who I'd take in silver & black before him!
I agree totally. Nash is overrated big time. Marion would be a great player for Dallas to have.

[cheguevara]

you guys are funny. Do you know what kind of a team the Suns would be without Nash?? they would be worse than the Grizzlies. that's what MVP is all about, making your team better. He makes the Suns a top 5 team in the league

[ShoogarBear]

The Suns without Nash might end up the same dismal failures the Mavs ended up without him.

[sa_butta]

Nash is valuable to his team, but three in a row to guy that hasnt seen the finals yet??

[spursfaninla]

I think its sad that he got it this year at all. Dragging a mediocre team into the good category is not worthy of MVP'ness...

[mavsfan1000]

you guys are funny. Do you know what kind of a team the Suns would be without Nash?? they would be worse than the Grizzlies. that's what MVP is all about, making your team better. He makes the Suns a top 5 team in the league
bullshit. They didn't have Diaw, Bell, Kurt Thomas, and some other players before Nash. Nash came to the suns on the rise. The reason the suns didn't make the playoffs the year before is because of Marbury getting traded and Amare going down with an ankle injury.

[resistanze]

After his second MVP, anything is possible. Maybe this year he'll win for integrating Amare back into the team.

[mavsfan1000]

The suns with Marbury gave the spurs a tougher series than the suns with Nash. :lol

[JMarkJohns]

There's a lot of BS being passed of as fact amongst these opinions.

I've hashed and rehashed this and really do not care to do so again, but it takes a lot to even be considered for an MVP. A LOT. So for a player to have won it two years in a row, he had to have done A LOT of things right.

They aren't going to award it to some schlup even once, let alone twice, let alone twice in a row.

Certainly he wasn't the only factor in Phoenix' success or rise, but you'll be hardpressed to convince me he wasn't more of a factor than inexperience (Diaw, Barbosa, Jones), journeymen (Bell, House, Jackson, TThomas) and solid contributors (KThomas, Richardson, Johnson).

Marion and Amare each hold a key, but last year Amare was out and they still won over 50 games, winning their division and advancing to the Conference Finals.

A Nash-led offense has ranked as the best all-arounf offense for the last five years. Last year the Suns led in every offensive category save for assist/turnover ratio, in which case they were second.

The team is built around his specific skills, so without someone of comparable skills themselves, I don't see the Suns having the staying power of the Mavericks the way ShoogarBear alluded to. In fact, if you look at the numbers, you'll see the Suns have won just once or twice in the nearly dozen games Nash has missed, going from the League's best offense to middle-of-the-pack while not even improving in team defense.

For all his flaws, for all the Suns talent, Nash is the engine that makes everything go and rank amongst the League's best - now, hold up... hold up... It's coming... - for all time. The Suns offensive efficiency numbers are top-5 all-time an breaking NBA records left and right.

Something must have been going great at an all-time level and all arrows point to Nash being why.

So please, stop with the hate. It's quite pathetic. He may not have been the most deserving, but he was certainly amongst them both years. First year Suns were the toast of the League, second year they were the scrappy underdog perservering through injury after injury while still breakin' record after record. He happened to have his two best years each year while being the focus off the record-breaking offense.

Again, and hopefully for the last time from me, he had to have done far more right to even be considered. It's not like they pulled his name out of a rabbit's ass or anything...

You can disagree with him winning without sounding like whiny bitches about it. You should learn to appreciate him as a player because they truly don't make PG's like that anymore. Pass-first with a great offensive arsenal, 50% FG, 40% 3-pt, 90% FT... The likes of which is very, very rare.

I get he's not even as good as Stockton whom never won the award, but you can't base the vote on Nash vs. Stockton in the course of NBA history, but rather said player's impact on said player's team vs. the rest of the League for that specific year.

That's it. For that, I think Nash was amongst the deserving both years. Not the most deserving, but most here claim he shouldn't even have been considered.

Please...

[mavsfan1000]

He's deserving of being in the right system for his game. He gets to play with Dirk and Finley and now he gets to play with Amare and Marion. Sure he is deserved to be considered an MVP candidate but no way I pick him over Dirk, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Duncan, KG, and etc.

[lrrr]

Since when does fact have anything to do with the MVP award?

The FACT that Nash has more MVP's than Shaq (he of the 6 finals and 4 rings) makes the MVP award a joke in my book.

What would you expect from a bunch of 'journalists' anyway? The only individual award that matters is finals MVP.

By "value", doesn't that mean a player can carry his team to wins that really matter? 'Journalists' refer to stats. Well, stats don't win games. Just cause PHX scores more than anyone else, doesn't mean they can BEAT everyone else.

[Obstructed_View]

Steve Nash has benefitted from the fact that the media members have predicted that the Suns would suck two years in a row, and then gave Nash credit for the fact that they are lousy at predicting. They basically voted for him a second time to justify the previous year's mistake as much as anything.

Nash deserves a lot of credit for improving the Suns, but he's nothing more than a good player who made a suddenly healthy team with developing talent and a new style better, but he isn't anything approaching an MVP, IMO. Period. Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, Mark Jackson and John Stockton were all FAR better point guards in their prime and didn't even get a sniff of the MVP.

This is all just idle debate of opinions, anyway. Since MVP is a media award, Nash "deserves it" simply by virtue of the fact that he was elected to receive it just like any other MVP was. They've given the award to the wrong guy enough times over the years that Nash certainly has no reason to feel that he's particularly undeserving of the award.

[ShoogarBear]

I've never disputed that Nash is the best point guard in the game right now, or that he doesn't deserve to be recognized for what he contributes.

But his winning the MVP the past two years redefines the term "overrated" henceforth and for all time. He's been rewarded because he's been put in a system designed to generate stats, not to win championship.

You can quibble over what the definition of MVP means. My definition is easy: look at the list of who has won the award before. If you know anything about basketball, that should give you all you need to know about the historical standards applied to winning the MVP:


Maurice Podoloff Trophy
2005-06 - Steve Nash, Phoenix
2004-05 - Steve Nash, Phoenix
2003-04 - Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
2002-03 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio
2001-02 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio
2000-01 - Allen Iverson, Philadelphia
1999-00 - Shaquille O'Neal, Los Angeles Lakers
1998-99 - Karl Malone, Utah
1997-98 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1996-97 - Karl Malone, Utah
1995-96 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1994-95 - David Robinson, San Antonio
1993-94 - Hakeem Olajuwon, Houston
1992-93 - Charles Barkley, Phoenix
1991-92 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1990-91 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1989-90 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1988-89 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1987-88 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1986-87 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1985-86 - Larry Bird, Boston
1984-85 - Larry Bird, Boston
1983-84 - Larry Bird, Boston
1982-83 - Moses Malone, Philadelphia
1981-82 - Moses Malone, Houston
1980-81 - Julius Erving, Philadelphia
1979-80 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1978-79 - Moses Malone, Houston
1977-78 - Bill Walton, Portland
1976-77 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1975-76 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1974-75 - Bob McAdoo, Buffalo
1973-74 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1972-73 - Dave Cowens, Boston
1971-72 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1970-71 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1969-70 - Willis Reed, New York
1968-69 - Wes Unseld, Baltimore
1967-68 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1966-67 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1965-66 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1964-65 - Bill Russell, Boston
1963-64 - Oscar Robertson, Cincinnati
1962-63 - Bill Russell, Boston
1961-62 - Bill Russell, Boston
1960-61 - Bill Russell, Boston
1959-60 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1958-59 - Bob Pettit, St. Louis
1957-58 - Bill Russell, Boston
1956-57 - Bob Cousy, Boston
1955-56 - Bob Pettit, St. Louis Prior to the last two years, Unseld and McAdoo were clearly the most questionable winners (McAdoo was the Steve Nash of centers), but the bar has now been lowered. Winning it once was cute, but winning it back-to-back is a travesty.

[JMarkJohns]

Kidd was second in MVP voting in a similar situation with the Nets, but with far inferior stats and in a far inferior conference.

I'd call second-place a sniff. Also, defense aside, I'll take Nash over Kidd. This from a Suns fan who's seen plenty of both. Kidd's weakness' on offense (shooting, turnovers, halfcourt offense) far outweigh Nash' weakness on defense in my opinion.

I won't argue that Nash is not in Stockton's, Payton's or even Kevin Johnson's League, but I still don't think you can use a litmus test of history to judge a current players importance to his currect team. I just don't think it's fair. Not that it has to be, but I'm not certain there were players in the League the last two years terribly more deserving of the award by defining what "valuable" was meant to be. Nash is the director of the Suns record-breaking offense, the one thing that enables them to win 50+ games and adance to the Conference Finals the past two years. Just like a QB in football, that's probably lent itself to an overvaluing of his talent, but I think he was deserving for more than mere talent.

No doubt he's the least talented MVP. But his value went beyond that. He played a career high in minutes on a team that depended solely on his ability to break down a defense and find the open man. No post game. No rebounding. No defense. Just buckets and he's the catalyst. He's got his hands on the ball ever 90% of the possessions the Suns have in a game and there isn't a player in the League who shoots better or passes better as a package. He does so much offensively and takes a physical beating doing so.

I'm not saying you can't disagree. Obviously you can and it doesn't mean you're wrong.

Thing is, Nash has been one of the most important players in the League the last two years. Far and away the most important on his team and one of the few truly indispensible to his specific team.

Dallas survived, but having seen Phoenix without Nash for a solid amount of games, I can confidently say that I doubt the Suns would break .500 without him.

Lots has contributed to Nash's perceived value. The likes of which include media expectations, injury and his own play. Still, I'm sure similar circumstances surrounded several of the previous winners, who they, themselves, don't measure up to the likes of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt or Russell.

[JMarkJohns]

Since when does fact have anything to do with the MVP award?

The FACT that Nash has more MVP's than Shaq (he of the 6 finals and 4 rings) makes the MVP award a joke in my book.

What would you expect from a bunch of 'journalists' anyway? The only individual award that matters is finals MVP.

By "value", doesn't that mean a player can carry his team to wins that really matter? 'Journalists' refer to stats. Well, stats don't win games. Just cause PHX scores more than anyone else, doesn't mean they can BEAT everyone else.

This Logic says that every MVP should have gone to Kareem, Magic, Larry or Jordan from 1970 through 1993 and to Jordan exclusively from 1996 to 1998. This would totally exclude players like M. Malone, Erving, Hakeem, Barkley, Robinson, K.Malone... the best or most talented player isn't always going to get it. He doesn't even always deserve it. Take Shaq off the Lakers in 2001, sure, they don't make the Finals, but they win 40+ games and compete for the playoffs. Take off Iverson from the 76ers and they win 20 games rather than reach the Finals.

Value. Not talent, nor best statistical season.

Specific player on a specific team in that specific year. Does Shaq deserve more than one MVP? Yes. Did Iverson or Nash deserve theirs over Shaq? Obviously those who are paid to cover the games and who have covered those we speak of over the course of history, deemed so.

Mavsfan... Nash was handpicked for the system. True. But why... perhaps the answer will enlighten you to Nash's importance to the offense. No other player could do what he does for that team. No current player, anyways.

Again, this is mere opinion vs. opinion. One man's definition of value or importance against another's and opinions are inherantly unique to each person because of personal bias.

Nash is a very good player who's played a greatly important role on a team who's offense is rewriting the record books and by being the catalyst for said offense, the same offense that allows his team with compete and win, he's received the lions share of the credit. Does said role within an All-Time offense make up for the lack of talent? Does his importance within the offense define his value to the team? Do these last two questions better help us who see his inferior talent understand that without him, the Suns probably don't win 50 games combined the last two years?

I hope, but I'm a realist and understand most don't care enough to look beyong the stats, or the names...

[cheguevara]

this gets discussed every so often and gets old.

the key is how you define MVP, is it best player in the league, or most valuable to the league, or most valuable to their team, or what?

so if the definition is not clear, how can people dispute who won? I'm sure Stern has influence on these voting and just wanted a clean player who can be a posterboy for the league. I'm 100% sure next seasons it's Lebronze's turn. So it's all going as Stern planned.

Last season it could only have gone to either Kobe, Lebron or Nash. Stern said,
"Kobe is too unpopular, Lebron is too young, hell, let's give it to the white boy. it's not like another white boy will have a chance anytime soon..."

[Obstructed_View]

Personally, I liked Nash's statement when he received the second MVP to end the debate: "I'm not giving it back."

[DallasFan]

Where are those pictures of "freak Nash", where he looks like he came out of the movie "The Ring"?

[AFBlue]

Nash is actually pretty underrated. The fact that some in this post would take Amare and Marion over him is an illustration of that fact. Nash may not have athleticism, but he's got the wits to score in bunches, using the three and body position when he drives the lane. Obviously what's most important is that he consistently puts the ball in the right player's hand at the right time. He realizes he's no low post threat or even the greatest 3pt shooter, though he's not shabby, and he puts the ball in those players' hands. The Phoenix Suns had Starbury and were god-awful, then they completely turned their game around when Nashty came to town...the definition of a valuable player.

I think he was the most deserving candidate last year because it was a regular season award. If it included post-season I would've given it to D-Wade in a heartbeat.

[mavsfan1000]

I would take both Amare and Marion over Nash on the mavs because Nash is such a defensive liability. Especially against the spurs and kings of the past. Bibby and Parker constantly destroyed Nash. Marion is an all around player and Amare is the inside prescence that Dallas would love to have.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

I would take both Amare and Marion over Nash on the mavs because Nash is such a defensive liability. Especially against the spurs and kings of the past. Bibby and Parker constantly destroyed Nash. Marion is an all around player and Amare is the inside prescence that Dallas would love to have.

No Nash on the Suns with Amare and Marion=lottery bound. I so agree that his D is a joke but regardless he is the glue to that team. Marion/Amare's game would suffer without a pg like Nash.

[mavsfan1000]

No Nash on the Suns with Amare and Marion=lottery bound. I so agree that his D is a joke but regardless he is the glue to that team. Marion/Amare's game would suffer without a pg like Nash.
Marion was the same with Nash as before Nash. Just look at his stats and Amare was bound to have a breakout year based on his athleticism. Maybe not as big without Nash but still he is huge. Also Barbosa has no point guard skills at all so the point guard position couldn't be any worse without Nash. Put Terry or Harris on the suns and I bet the suns are looking pretty good as well.

[ducks]

mj never won three in a row nash win three in a row you might as well throw this award out the window

[Nashfan]

Mavsfan1000,

You have got to be kidding about putting Terry or Harris on the Sun's team and them winning as much as they have in the past two year's. :wow Nash is the glue as a few people in here have said. Terry plays one on one much like Stephon and Harris is just too out of control to run the Sun's team. :lol

[DallasFan]

Mavsfan1000,

You have got to be kidding about putting Terry or Harris on the Sun's team and them winning as much as they have in the past two year's. :wow Nash is the glue as a few people in here have said. Terry plays one on one much like Stephon and Harris is just too out of control to run the Sun's team. :lol

Mavsfan did not say that...just mentioned they would be looking pretty good, which they would. They certainly looked good in the Western Conference Finals :lol

[Nashfan]

Dallasfan,

Just barely beating the Phoenix Sun's with Raja Bell injured, and two of our front court guy's injured (Amare and Kurt Thomas) isn't all the much to be proud of. :rolleyes If Amare comes back to at least eighty-five to ninety percent of what he was then you don't stand a chance against the Sun's. :lol You barely beat the Spurs and they were banged up badly (but their player's could still play). :rolleyes So I wouldn't go tooting your horn too soon! :nope As to what Mavsfan1000 said, I don't think either Terry or Harris could have gotten the Sun's to the Western Conference Finals at all. :lol

[DallasFan]

Dallasfan,

Just barely beating the Phoenix Sun's with Raja Bell injured, and two of our front court guy's injured (Amare and Kurt Thomas) isn't all the much to be proud of. :rolleyes If Amare comes back to at least eighty-five to ninety percent of what he was then you don't stand a chance against the Sun's. :lol You barely beat the Spurs and they were banged up badly (but their player's could still play). :rolleyes So I wouldn't go tooting your horn too soon! :nope As to what Mavsfan1000 said, I don't think either Terry or Harris could have gotten the Sun's to the Western Conference Finals at all. :lol

W'ell see...we had our share of injuries as well..Howard, Harris, etc. Getting to the Finals is an accomplishment for any team, so don't downplay our feat. Saying we don't stand a chance against Amare is rediculous. It will be a very close matchup if anything. We also have the 3-headed monster, along with our other weapons. Also, Terry or Harris couldn't get the Suns to the Finals, but they helped the Mavs get there? That's saying something how you feel about your team.

Remember this: Amare is great, and who wouldn't want to have him. If he stays healthy, and a big "if"..you guys will be great. But, on the other hand, your high-flying offense will not be as high-flying with him in there, and will be more post-up.

The western conference will be very interesting this year. I'm going to the opener on Nov.2 against the Spurs. Should be a lot of fun.

[Brutalis]

It was a joke he has won it to begin with..

[Nashfan]

Dallasfan,

I said you did not stand a chance against the Sun's with Amare healthy not just Amare. Plus it is not a knock on my team saying Terry or Harris would not have gotten us to the WCF, Dirk and Howard is who got your team there. Nash got us there without Amare who is our dominant player like Dirk. Your team would not have made it there without Dirk. Also Amare is not a post up player as you indicated and we were high flying as you put it, with him there in the past and still will be with him in there this year. He can do other things beside dunk you know. I think he is progressing pretty well considering what he has went through. He is dunking pretty well considering the surgeries in the two preseason games he played in so far. Our team has a lot of heart and did very well last year with the injuries that would cripple most teams. Don't forget about Diaw either, he is looking like an Amare clone of late on his dunks. Don't know if you saw the preseason game they played in Germany but if you have NBA League Pass try watching and see Amare and Diaw both have great dunks. We also play as a team and Dallas seems to play a lot of one on one which is one of the reasons I think you got beat by Miami. You needed to run against them to wear Shaq and Mourning out. Oh well, we will see soon enough how both teams do this year.

[mavsfan1000]

Terry and Harris are big upgrades to Barbosa at point guard and the suns would win 50 games I would say with those players instead of Nash. You are underestimating Dallas's point guards. Both were very important to Dallas getting to the finals. Howard doesn't carry enough of the offense. Especially Terry is important. Harris is getting there.

[Nashfan]

Mavsfan1000,

Barbosa is not our back up point guard, Marcus Banks is. Barbosa is better suited as a shooting guard. Don't know why the coaches tried to make him a point guard except for maybe his size. Also Diaw handles the ball a lot. Most of our players are able to do a lot of different things on the court. It is the only way our coach likes it. That is why you won't see players like Diop and Dampier on a Sun's team because they can't shoot well enough to stay on the court for him. Still don't think Terry is a good enough point guard to get any team to 50 wins by himself, he played in Atlanta before and was not outstanding and did not get them to 50 wins. Harris is a better prospect but still too out of control to take over a team yet. Wasn't Howard your second best scorer last year? Still the Sun's need a pass first point guard with all our shooter's and Terry doesn't fit that at all. As I said before he plays more like Stephon.

[DallasFan]

Dallasfan,

I said you did not stand a chance against the Sun's with Amare healthy not just Amare. Plus it is not a knock on my team saying Terry or Harris would not have gotten us to the WCF, Dirk and Howard is who got your team there. Nash got us there without Amare who is our dominant player like Dirk. Your team would not have made it there without Dirk. Also Amare is not a post up player as you indicated and we were high flying as you put it, with him there in the past and still will be with him in there this year. He can do other things beside dunk you know. I think he is progressing pretty well considering what he has went through. He is dunking pretty well considering the surgeries in the two preseason games he played in so far. Our team has a lot of heart and did very well last year with the injuries that would cripple most teams. Don't forget about Diaw either, he is looking like an Amare clone of late on his dunks. Don't know if you saw the preseason game they played in Germany but if you have NBA League Pass try watching and see Amare and Diaw both have great dunks. We also play as a team and Dallas seems to play a lot of one on one which is one of the reasons I think you got beat by Miami. You needed to run against them to wear Shaq and Mourning out. Oh well, we will see soon enough how both teams do this year.

We stand a chance against any team in the league, regard less of who's playing. So do you guys.

Here's to a great NBA season coming up :jekka

[Obstructed_View]

The Phoenix Suns had Starbury and were god-awful, then they completely turned their game around when Nashty came to town...the definition of a valuable player.
Marbury only played 34 games for the Suns in 2004, and Frank Johnson was replaced with D'Antoni 20 games in. After trading Marbury and Hardaway for basically nothing, the Suns had Joe Johnson as the only point guard with any experience, Amare out for 30 games, and a new coaching staff. They still won 29 games. D'Antoni had a .525 record in 2003 which would be good for a 43-39 record for a full season. Given the break out season by Amare, the development of their shooters and a complete season with D'Antoni, It's foolish to think the 2004 Suns wouldn't have won at least 50 games if they had signed any other point guard instead of Nash. Nash fit great in that system and was a big reason they were the number one seed, but let's not get carried away.

It's funny that those that give Nash all the credit for the Suns' improvement are so quick to give excuses when one points out, correctly, that the Mavericks improved after he left.

[mavsfan1000]

Mavsfan1000,

Barbosa is not our back up point guard, Marcus Banks is. Barbosa is better suited as a shooting guard. Don't know why the coaches tried to make him a point guard except for maybe his size. Also Diaw handles the ball a lot. Most of our players are able to do a lot of different things on the court. It is the only way our coach likes it. That is why you won't see players like Diop and Dampier on a Sun's team because they can't shoot well enough to stay on the court for him. Still don't think Terry is a good enough point guard to get any team to 50 wins by himself, he played in Atlanta before and was not outstanding and did not get them to 50 wins. Harris is a better prospect but still too out of control to take over a team yet. Wasn't Howard your second best scorer last year? Still the Sun's need a pass first point guard with all our shooter's and Terry doesn't fit that at all. As I said before he plays more like Stephon.
Put Nash on that pathetic hawks team and they would struggle. You can't go by what happened with Terry in Atlanta. He was asked to be the go to guy in Atlanta and he isn't that. Joe Johnson sucks in Atlanta as well. Phoenix though has Marion and Amare and Terry would fit right in with their offense imo.

[Fabbs]

mj never won three in a row nash win three in a row you might as well throw this award out the window

:clap MJ not getting MVP and instead Karl Malone and Magic Marketer in seperate years was a joke.

[san antonio spurs]

Since when does fact have anything to do with the MVP award?

The FACT that Nash has more MVP's than Shaq (he of the 6 finals and 4 rings) makes the MVP award a joke in my book.

What would you expect from a bunch of 'journalists' anyway? The only individual award that matters is finals MVP.
By "value", doesn't that mean a player can carry his team to wins that really matter? 'Journalists' refer to stats. Well, stats don't win games. Just cause PHX scores more than anyone else, doesn't mean they can BEAT everyone else.

I can't believe ya'll let this go.
MVP finals is not the individual award by excellence and never will
________
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[Nashfan]

Mavsfan1000,

The only way Terry would fit in with Amare and Marion would be as a small shooting guard. He is not a very good point guard (You know, distributes the ball and gets assists). And yes, I think Nash would have done much better with that Atlanta team than Terry. Just my opinion. :)

[mavsfan1000]

Terry is a decent point guard but yeah his shooting is what makes him a good point guard. Marbury imo isn't as good as Terry because he ball hogs it and doesn't shoot as high of a percentage as Terry. Also Marbury is terrible on defense. Terry is about average on defense. Harris though I guess would fit in better since he plays more like a point guard. Diaw or Joe Johnson could've shared the point guard duties with Terry though so it's not like no one else in the suns lineup has passing skills.

[ploto]

How is this Spurs related??

[ducks]

look duncan could win the mvp
if nash wins it then duncan can not
then that makes it spurs related mrs mod

[Obstructed_View]

MVP finals is not the individual award by excellence and never will
What language is this? There seem to be some words missing. Did you have to pee while you were typing it?