UFC 64: Unstoppable

[IX_Equilibrium]

Official Card:

Rich Franklin vs. Anderson Silva

Kenny Florian vs. Sean Sherk

Jon Fitch vs. Kuniyoshi Hironaka

Spencer Fisher vs. Dan Lauzon

Kalib Starnes vs. Yushin Okami

Cheick Kongo vs. Carmelo Marrero

Keith Jardine vs. Mike Nickels

Clay Guida vs. Justin James

Kurt Pellegrino vs. Cleuder Assuncao

[IX_Equilibrium]

My picks are in bold



Rich Franklin vs. Anderson Silva

Kenny Florian vs. Sean Sherk

Jon Fitch vs. Kuniyoshi Hironaka

Spencer Fisher vs. Dan Lauzon

Kalib Starnes vs. Yushin Okami

Cheick Kongo vs. Carmelo Marrero

Keith Jardine vs. Mike Nickels

Clay Guida vs. Justin James

Kurt Pellegrino vs. Cleuder Assuncao

[Mr Dio]

My freakin' service doesn't let me lay anything til the day before.
FUCK!!!

[IX_Equilibrium]

I never bet on MMA. Not real money, anyway.

[LEONARD]

I like this card a lot, but probably won't get to order it due to a birthday party. I'll start DL'ing the fights around midnight though :fro

These are the only lines on pinnaclesports right now...

Sean Sherk -292
Kenny Florian +262

Rich Franklin -194
Anderson Silva +181

I think Sherk is a lock but Silva has a chance...I'd probably still put my money on Franklin though given that line...


I never bet on MMA. Not real money, anyway.

My last real bet was $100 on Penn (underdog) in the GSP fight...it sure looked like easy money after Rd 1!! :drunk

[desflood]

Why do we keep seeing Mike Nickels? Frankly, he's not that impressive.

On a different note, one of these nights we're going to have to put together an mma get-together just for those in this forum :spin

[IX_Equilibrium]

My last real bet was $100 on Penn (underdog) in the GSP fight...it sure looked like easy money after Rd 1!! :drunk


A buddy of mine who bets had his money on Trigg during the Hughes vs Trigg II fight. After he saw Matt slam and choke out Trigg after Matt seemed all but done when he was in trouble due to the illegal groin shot, he said, "I am never going to bet against Matt Hughes again."

[IX_Equilibrium]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/toetags/KURT.jpg

http://www.bloodyknux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21265

[LEONARD]

Odds:

Rich Franklin -200
Anderson Silva +160

Sean Sherk -325
Kenny Florian +250

Jon Fitch -325
Kuniyoshi Hironaka +250

Cheick Kongo -525
Carmelo Marrero +375

Spencer Fisher -450
Dan Lauzon +300

Keith Jardine -500
Mike Nickels +350

Yushin Okami -115
Kalib Starnes -115

Justin James +200
Clay Guida -260

Kurt Pellegrino -280
Junior Assuncao +220

Underdog: Silva, Lauzon, Hironaka
Favorite: Guida, Pellegrino
Lock: Sherk, Jardine, Kongo
Pick-em: Okami


A buddy of mine who bets had his money on Trigg during the Hughes vs Trigg II fight. After he saw Matt slam and choke out Trigg after Matt seemed all but done when he was in trouble due to the illegal groin shot, he said, "I am never going to bet against Matt Hughes again."

Hahaha...I'm sure he went from cloud nine to hating life in about 5 seconds when Hughes turned it around. I thought I had easy money after Rd 1 of Penn / GSP... :lol

[NorCal510]

wow who watches wrestling now a days losers L 7 weenies

[IX_Equilibrium]

wow who watches wrestling now a days losers L 7 weenies


I agree...

But what does that have to do with this thread?

[spurs=bling]

what is norcal doing here????

[LEONARD]

wow who watches wrestling now a days losers L 7 weenies

I totally agree...wrestling is absolutely the worst thing on TV. It's good to see a bunch of MMA fans in here... :ihit

[desflood]

:fight



Love all the new little toys.

[LEONARD]

what is norcal doing here????

Spamming every forum...

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1232720

He obviously doesn't even know what MMA is... :lol

[spurs=bling]

Spamming every forum...

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1232720

He obviously doesn't even know what MMA is... :lol
i can tell.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

little blingy gets excited when she watches ufc

[spurs=bling]

little blingy gets excited when she watches ufc
shut up CBF.

[IX_Equilibrium]

UNSTOPPABLE Weigh-In

Replay Link

http://video.ufc.com/Content.aspx?cbid=9066

[LEONARD]

How does Kongo weigh in at 226 lbs? The dude is massive and he's 6'5"!!

http://www.sherdog.com/_images/pictures/33158.jpg

Something doesn't add up there...either that or my scales are completely F'd!! :lol

Pre-Fight videos...
http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=MultiMedia.video#

I hope Spencer fisher loses...I'm so tired of most of the MFS guys. He's insulted that someone as young an inexperienced as Lauzon took a fight with him?? And how is beating Dan going to prove that Joe knocking out Pulver was a fluke? That makes a lot of sense...

Dan Lauzon fight from Aug...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CDclix4jw_o

Hughes, once again, showed what a dick he is on the most recent episode of TUF 4. I'm officially pulling for GSP when they fight...

[IX_Equilibrium]

Fisher is an asshole. I pick him to win, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see Lauzon humble him.

Regarding the way Matt acted on TUF, he was sort of a dick. But I think he took offense at GSP avoiding him. I don't think he would have done that had GSP acted normal and hung around with the other trainers. GSP was being anti-social and Matt called him out on it. But I like GSP, and he is a good guy. Matt should have just let him be.

As far as Serra, what a hypocrite. Serra is guilty of everything he said about Matt, and more. At least Matt has the balls to say things to people's face. Serra acts nice to Rich and Matt while they are in front of him, and then badmouths them to everyone while they are away. It was funny how he freaked whenever he found out Charles McCarthy let Rich in on the fact that they were laughing at his advice.

[IX_Equilibrium]

How does Kongo weigh in at 226 lbs? The dude is massive and he's 6'5"!!




I think his walk around weight is about 20 lbs. heavier.

[LEONARD]

Fisher is an asshole. I pick him to win, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see Lauzon humble him.

Regarding the way Matt acted on TUF, he was sort of a dick. But I think he took offense at GSP avoiding him. I don't think he would have done that had GSP acted normal and hung around with the other trainers. GSP was being anti-social and Matt called him out on it. But I like GSP, and he is a good guy. Matt should have just let him be.

As far as Serra, what a hypocrite. Serra is guilty of everything he said about Matt, and more. At least Matt has the balls to say things to people's face. Serra acts nice to Rich and Matt while they are in front of him, and then badmouths them to everyone while they are away. It was funny how he freaked whenever he found out Charles McCarthy let Rich in on the fact that they were laughing at his advice.

I can understand GSP not wanting to hang around him though since they had a fight coming up. Hughes is just WAY too cocky for me...most of MFS comes off that way. I thought Matt's comments about Din's lips were a bit uncalled for too...

Maybe this incident was the reason for GSP's comments to Matt after his fight with Penn? Who knows.

Serra is definitely annoying, and a hypocrite. He might get his shot at Hughes if he can get past Chris Lidle in the finals...


I think his walk around weight is about 20 lbs. heavier.

Probably so, but the dude on the scale yesterday looked more than 226 lbs to me...

http://media.ufc.tv/i.cfc?method=get&cs=1&s=4492B71A-1422-0E8C-9AF34C85D95BD453.jpg
http://media.ufc.tv/i.cfc?method=get&cs=1&s=4491CFC8-1422-0E8C-9A294AD08FFA76D9.jpg

I'm 6' avg build in decent shape and I'm 215-218 lbs... :wtf

[Mr Dio]

Probably so, but the dude on the scale yesterday looked more than 226 lbs to me...

http://media.ufc.tv/i.cfc?method=get&cs=1&s=4492B71A-1422-0E8C-9AF34C85D95BD453.jpg
http://media.ufc.tv/i.cfc?method=get&cs=1&s=4491CFC8-1422-0E8C-9A294AD08FFA76D9.jpg



Is that Lexington Steele?

[LEONARD]

Is that Lexington Steele?

:wtf

[Horry For 3!]

I am assuming this is on PPV, or will it be on Spike?

[IX_Equilibrium]

I am assuming this is on PPV, or will it be on Spike?

PPV

[IX_Equilibrium]

From UFC.tv:

Due to a late back injury, Mike Nickels has been forced to withdraw from his light heavyweight preliminary bout tonight at UFC 64 against Keith Jardine. There will be no replacement bout and UFC 64 will go on with eight fights.

[desflood]

Keith Jardine's gotta be ticked about that. All that time training and mental preparation down the tubes. They'll pay him, though, so not all was lost.

[spurs=bling]

Rich Franklin Vs. Anderson Silva
Jon Fitch Vs. Kuniyoshi Hironaka
Cheick Kongo Vs. Carmelo Marrero






* the ones is in bold are the ones i think will win, but then again that is just me.

Sean Sherk Vs. Kenny Florian

Sean weighs a little bit more and has more wins 29-2-1, Ken is a few inches taller. but anything can happen, for now i'm leaning towards Sean.

Damn i got 3 in a row. just the Rich Franklin Vs. Anderson Silva left.

[spurs=bling]

Rich got owned.

[desflood]

Oh...My...God...Rich Franklin...Holy Cow. There's a curve the shape of a knee in his nose. Oh my God.

[spurs=bling]

Oh...My...God...Rich Franklin...Holy Cow. There's a curve the shape of a knee in his nose. Oh my God.
:fight < Rich Franklin.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

damn silva is for real lol i wasn't sure if he could stand with him because nate quarry couldn't and he was heavy handed aswell, we'll just have to wait for the rematch

[spurs=bling]

uh.... are desflood and i the only ones who watched the fight?

[IX_Equilibrium]

Fucking Hell, I cannot believe Rich got schooled like that. He must have thought his Muay Thai was on the same level as Silva's because he said (after the fight) he thought the clinch would be his "sweet spot". Rich getting into a Muay Thai contest with Silva is no smarter than him putting on boxing gloves and fighting Klitschko. Anyway, I can't believe he couldn't break out of Silva's clinch. I was yelling, "Get out of that clinch and take him to the ground!" Silva must be deceptively strong, and Rich even commented on how his strength in the clinch surprised him.


Sherk won in the manner I thought he would.

Lauzon needs to learn some damn stand up. He was controlling Fisher on the ground very well, and then his world fell apart after they stood up.

Kongo losing was a surprise to many. He is a one dimensional fighter, as is Marrero. But Marrero's strength was take downs, so that's why he controlled and won.


I was 5-3 with my predictions.

[spurs=bling]

i thought that Rich would win that fight...what a let down he didn't even try to break out of the clinch.

[IX_Equilibrium]

i thought that Rich would win that fight...what a let down he didn't even try to break out of the clinch.


He did try, but couldn't.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

i was hoping silva won and he did lol, i don't think rich deserves a rematch right away maybe rich vs swick for a title shot

[LEONARD]

Dana probably didn't sleep at all Saturday night...he has a lot invested in Franklin and he was destroyed like he was a TUF reject. Franklin hasn't gotten his big contract yet though (still fighting on a 9 fight deal at about $30k/fight!). It's definitely not good when a 2nd tier Pride MW comes over and does that to your posterboy, but at least Silva is with the UFC now (upgrade for the org). He's still under contract with Cage Rage too I believe...

This picture captures the fight nicely...
http://www.ufcfightnews.com/ufc64-report/images/cozzone-franklin-silva0078.jpg

and this of course...
http://www.filelodge.com/files/room36/1008329/Silva-knee_Franklin-nose.gif

"It's F'd. I'm alright." Can't tell what he said after that. I feel bad for Rich because I like him, and he never got his big contract really (although he gets plenty from sponsors). I hope he comes back strong.

I was happy with the result for the fact that it gives UFC fans more exposure to international fighters. Maybe somebody they'll stop booing them (ie, at the weigh-in, intro, and after the fight). I'm sure Fedor will get boo'd at Pride Real Deal this Saturday (I'll see first hand since I'm going).

So much for any Kongo hype...

Florian had no shot.
http://www.sherdog.com/_images/pictures/37090.jpg

And elbows still suck IMO...

Fitch looked good...as did the LW Guida...

Lauzon had nothing on his feet and appeared to gas hard in the 1st? Was looking good briefly though. Sucks that we missed the first min plus of the fight due to technical problems...


damn silva is for real lol i wasn't sure if he could stand with him because nate quarry couldn't and he was heavy handed aswell, we'll just have to wait for the rematch

Mentioning Nate Freakin' Quarry and Anderson Silva in the same sentence is a joke...seriously...

I'm sure Franklin will get his rematch after a few fights....assuming he doesn't lose again.


Fucking Hell, I cannot believe Rich got schooled like that. He must have thought his Muay Thai was on the same level as Silva's because he said (after the fight) he thought the clinch would be his "sweet spot". Rich getting into a Muay Thai contest with Silva is no smarter than him putting on boxing gloves and fighting Klitschko.

Very surprising indeed!! He should've bailed on that clench at all cost...bad gameplan on his part, or a bad decision if he decided on the fly to do that. You'd think that after the 10th knee to the ribs he would've gotten away...


i was hoping silva won and he did lol, i don't think rich deserves a rematch right away maybe rich vs swick for a title shot

Lots of guys in line...and potentially in line if the UFC should sign them...

winner of TUF 4 (Cote/Lutter) is guaranteed a shot soon
Marquardt is the most deserving IMO.
Swick...would be interested to see that one.
The Crow (bottom of the list)
Return of Horn? (since he left because Franklin was locked in and they're friends)
Return of Lindland??
Return of Frank Shamrock??
Another Pride MW?

What about Hughes?? Will he backup his talk??
http://www.matt-hughes.com/blog.html

Sunday, October 8, 2006
Tomorrow I'm going to New York, Chuck and I will be on ESPN. Fly back tomorrow night. This week I'll spend Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday morning with my brother getting crops out and also trying to spend as much time with my family as I can. Thursday night, my wife and I leave for Las Vegas for the UFC. I hope Rich wins, but if Anderson wins I would consider bumping up to 185 and fighting him. I'll fly home Sunday. -Matt

Dana White wouldn't risk putting his man-crush in against Silva. After Hughes beat Penn he was dry-humping his leg. But Saturday night him, Hughes, Sylvia (wearing his belt of course!), etc all looked pretty defeated...I was LOVING that!!

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/1076/1495/109549.jpg
http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/1076/1495/109550.jpg

Up next...Pride Real Deal this Saturday...and I'll be there :fro

[IX_Equilibrium]

What exactly is the connection between Franklin to Slyvia and Hughes? Does Rich go to MFS to train sometimes?

As far as who beats Silva, it won't be Swick. The Crow would be an interesting matchup if his gameplan is smarter than Rich (which wouldn't be hard to top) , but I think Loiseau has taken one too many blows to the head.

There is so much buzz right now about Lindland coming back. He is not the same fighter now as when he left, and I think he would definately dominate Silva on the ground. Dana would have to swallow his huge amount of pride to ask Lindland back, though.

[IX_Equilibrium]

Florian had no shot.

And elbows still suck IMO...



I think its a bitch move of Florian to always try to get fights stopped because of cuts. You could even hear his corner saying "work that cut".

It's well within his right, but I think it's shitty to rely on that.

[LEONARD]

What exactly is the connection between Franklin to Slyvia and Hughes? Does Rich go to MFS to train sometimes?

As far as who beats Silva, it won't be Swick. The Crow would be an interesting matchup if his gameplan is smarter than Rich (which wouldn't be hard to top) , but I think Loiseau has taken one too many blows to the head.

There is so much buzz right now about Lindland coming back. He is not the same fighter now as when he left, and I think he would definately dominate Silva on the ground. Dana would have to swallow his huge amount of pride to ask Lindland back, though.

Yea, he's trained with them some, but isn't officially a member of their team. I didn't expect to see them all in his corner. And Hughes comforting Rich's wife... :dramaquee

The Crow seemed out of it in his last fight. Maybe there IS something wrong with him?

I think Dana would swallow that pride if it meant getting the non-English speaking Silva out as champ. It'll be easy to tell how bad he wants him out based on who he brings in to fight him. This definitely shook things up a bit...


I think its a bitch move of Florian to always try to get fights stopped because of cuts. You could even hear his corner saying "work that cut".

It's well within his right, but I think it's shitty to rely on that.

No kidding...that was his only shot and he knew it. What if it had worked?? :oops

[IX_Equilibrium]

Did anyone get to see Pellegrino vs. Assuncao? Damn impressive performance by Pellegrino. He made Assuncao look like a whitebelt.

[LEONARD]

That's the one fight I haven't seen yet...DL'd it today but haven't watched it yet...

[desflood]

Hughes comforting Rich's wife... :dramaqueen

If I were Franklin, I'd keep my wife away from Matt Hughes. There are some rumors going around that Hughes was recently involved with an alleged sexual assault involving the girlfriend of a teammate.

Boy, and I had such high hopes for Kongo too. But, maybe he just had an off day.

Give Lauzon a little break guys. He's all of 18 years old and has a long way to go yet.

[LEONARD]

If I were Franklin, I'd keep my wife away from Matt Hughes. There are some rumors going around that Hughes was recently involved with an alleged sexual assault involving the girlfriend of a teammate.

Boy, and I had such high hopes for Kongo too. But, maybe he just had an off day.

Give Lauzon a little break guys. He's all of 18 years old and has a long way to go yet.

Huh?? (Hughes)

I give Lauzon all the credit in the world for taking that fight. 18 yrs old with only 3 MMA fights under his belt, stepping in with one of the better WW's in the UFC that also happens to be a terrible matchup for him (style-wise).

[Mr Dio]

Boy, and I had such high hopes for Kongo too. But, maybe he just had an off day.

How many fighters in the past 2 yrs that are at or near the top of their weight class are undefeated?
Don't think Kongo will go away.
Don't see how anyone thinks Kongo can't comeback later.
One loss does not a career make.

===
===

Give Lauzon a little break guys. He's all of 18 years old and has a long way to go yet.

Yeah.
2 weeks notice.
Not bad. Not that impressive but hey, 18yrs old.

[tlongII]

I saw the Silva vs Franklin fight and was not that surprised. Pride fighters are much better than UFC fighters. UFC needs to put up more money to get the best fighters to come over.

[desflood]

How many fighters in the past 2 yrs that are at or near the top of their weight class are undefeated?
Don't think Kongo will go away.
Don't see how anyone thinks Kongo can't comeback later.
One loss does not a career make.
It's not that he lost - it's that it was such an abysmally boring loss that could have been so much more impressive had he actually done some fighting.

But like I said before, maybe he just had an off day.

[LEONARD]

I saw the Silva vs Franklin fight and was not that surprised. Pride fighters are much better than UFC fighters. UFC needs to put up more money to get the best fighters to come over.

Oh no!! You'll need to post some real proof of this for Mr Dio because he brings some serious facts in that argument...

[tlongII]

Oh no!! You'll need to post some real proof of this for Mr Dio because he brings some serious facts in that argument...

I've seen Mr Dio arguments before and I'm not worried. :lol

[Mr Dio]

Oh no!! You'll need to post some real proof of this for Mr Dio because he brings some serious facts in that argument

LEONARD: " :blah :blah :blah And in my opinion :blah :blah :blah "

Leonard still thinks his opinion is the end all be all. :lol :lol
Wow, I could only hope to be in love with PRIDE so much & be the board MMA expert. :lol :lol

...

[Mr Dio]

I've seen Mr Dio arguments before and I'm not worried. :lol


I guess if I were to say "I'd hit it" that'd be an amazing argument. :lol
The board Beast Master wins all arguments.

[LEONARD]

I certainly don't think that my opinion is the "be all end all" and while I like Pride better than the UFC overall, there are plenty of fighters in the UFC that I'm a fan of and I order almost every UFC PPV...

I DO think that your opinions are severely flawed and you've provided no backing for them to show me otherwise...here's a few of my favorites...


I like UFC better.

Pride is more of a slugfest & from the dozen or so matches I've seen the action can tend to slow too much. Sure the ref says to fight but in UFC the ref will break-up the fighters & stand them up if it gets boring/slow.

UFC has much more skill on the ground. Not enough action on the ground in Pride. Rules are probably the reason, I dont know? Like I said, in UFC the ref will stand them up if neither fighter trys to advance their position.

I like both but I will take a UFC fight over Pride when the fighters in UFC/Pride are of belt quality.

This proved that you have VERY LITTLE knowledge of Pride since in Pride they yellow card (10% purse FINE) for stalling, which they don't do in the UFC. Nevermind the fact that you said you had seen a dozen matches, but you said that meant "events" which you called "90 min thingy's" :lol .


You can download a ton of highlights from Pride/UFC/whatever from Limewire & UFC's always looks better.

Solid argument there...how could I argue with that?? :lol


Wanderlei Silva now moves up to top comp & joins the UFC.
Silva v Chuck in Nov.

You've never explained how the UFC LHW division would be "top comp" for Silva to "move up" to?? Considering Pride has Silva, Shogun, Arona, and Little Nog that could all give Chuck a fight. And the UFC has....Tito?? Or maybe Forrest or Rashad will save the division?? Please explain to me how Silva fighting in the UFC is "moving up?" Chuck is the only guy in the UFC that would be worthy of a fight with Silva...yet there are at least 4 guys in Pride that are worthy of fighting Chuck (and that's AFTER Rampage left Pride for the WFA). Maybe there are some UFC LHW's that I don't know about? Please enlighten me...

All you do is rip me for my opinions which I've backed up with fight history, top 10 rankings, etc. I'm waiting for you to back your opinions with something other than cut-downs towards me...

[desflood]

Let's settle this somewhat more objectively

HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION (over 205 pounds)

#1 Heavyweight Fighter in the World: Fedor Emelianenko
2. Mirko Cro Cop
3. Josh Barnett
4. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
5. Tim Sylvia
6. Andrei Arlovski
7. Aleksander Emelianenko
8. Fabricio Werdum
9. Mark Hunt
10. Sergei Kharitonov

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION (205-pound limit)

#1 Light Heavyweight Fighter in the World: Chuck Liddell
2. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
3. Wanderlei Silva
4. Ricardo Arona
5. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
6. Renato "Babalu" Sobral
7. Tito Ortiz
8. Quinton Jackson
9. Alistair Overeem
10. Kazuhiro Nakamura

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

MIDDLEWEIGHT DIVISION (185-pound limit)

#1 Middleweight Fighter in the World: Matt Lindland
2. Anderson Silva
3. Rich Franklin
4. Paulo Filho
5. Dan Henderson
6. Denis Kang
7. Jeremy Horn
8. Kazuo Misaki
9. Nathan Marquardt
10. Amar Suloev

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

WELTERWEIGHT DIVISION (170-pound limit)

#1 Welterweight Fighter in the World: Matt Hughes
2. Georges St. Pierre
3. BJ Penn
4. Diego Sanchez
5. Karo Parisyan
6. Jake Shields
7. Jon Fitch
8. Akira Kikuchi
9. Nick Diaz
10. Joe Riggs

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

LIGHTWEIGHT DIVISION (160 pounds and lower)

#1 Lightweight Fighter in the World: Takanori Gomi
2. Hayato Sakurai
3. Tatsuya Kawajiri
4. Joachim Hansen
5. Norifumi "Kid" Yamamoto
6. Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro
7. Marcus Aurelio
8. Mitsuhiro Ishida
9. Sean Sherk
10. Gilbert Melendez

Judging by the majority of the rankings (the welterweight division being a notable exception), I would have to say that the Pride org. definitely tops the UFC as far as skill level, quality of matches, etc. That being said, I still prefer to watch the UFC.

[Mr Dio]

I certainly don't think that my opinion is the "be all end all" and while I like Pride better than the UFC overall, there are plenty of fighters in the UFC that I'm a fan of and I order almost every UFC PPV...

If it helps you sleep at night & you want to be known as the MMA expert ( :lol ) then yeah, sure, uh huh….
No one can match your knowledge or opinion on MMA, you are indeed a legend in your own mind. Ooops, I meant legend in your own time. :lol

===
===

This proved that you have VERY LITTLE knowledge of Pride since in Pride they yellow card (10% purse FINE) for stalling, which they don't do in the UFC. Nevermind the fact that you said you had seen a dozen matches, but you said that meant "events" which you called "90 min thingy's" :lol .

That shows how much respect I had/have for pride & it pissed you off. I mention Sherdog by the name SherPuppy or something like that & it pisses you off as well. That is obvious & only an idiot would deny it. Still pissed I see leo. Yeah, those pride thingys are the best!!! :lol

===
===

[Mr Dio]

Let's settle this somewhat more objectively
LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION (205-pound limit)

#1 Light Heavyweight Fighter in the World: Chuck Liddell
2. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
3. Wanderlei Silva
4. Ricardo Arona
5. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
6. Renato "Babalu" Sobral
7. Tito Ortiz
8. Quinton Jackson
9. Alistair Overeem
10. Kazuhiro Nakamura

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Oh NO!!!
Don't put Chuck above Silva or Leo will prove will his opinion that you're wrong! :lol :lol

[desflood]

lol - but he's right about that. silva should definitely be above chuck.

[Mr Dio]

Let's settle this somewhat more objectively
LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION (205-pound limit)

#1 Light Heavyweight Fighter in the World: Chuck Liddell
2. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
3. Wanderlei Silva
4. Ricardo Arona
5. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
6. Renato "Babalu" Sobral
7. Tito Ortiz
8. Quinton Jackson
9. Alistair Overeem
10. Kazuhiro Nakamura

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Easy way to get leo all upset is to downgrade Silva below Tito. Who is better leo, Silva or Tito. leo states that he puts fight history & fact :blah :blah :blah , OK, Who won the Tito vs Silva fight?............Yeah, that what I thought. :lol :lol

[Mr Dio]

lol - but he's right about that. silva should definitely be above chuck.

Oh yes!
Without question!! :lol

[Mr Dio]

I like watching all good fights.
I'd mention how boring some pride stuff thingys were & someone loses it.
Oh well, what do I care.
It's my opinion BUT, I can admit so.

[Mr Dio]

This is one of my fav "Legend in His own Mind" posts of all-time.


The consensus is that Pride is better overal...

WOW! Solid argument here again! :lol
I guess you’ve polled everyone that watches MMA show you definitely know the consensus. Yeah, leo the great knows all! :lol

===
===

Pride's weight classes are a little different, so it's hard to make some of the comparisons fairly. But overall, most MMA fans agree that Pride is stronger overall...

So leo knows most MMA fans huh?
OMG, that is so hilarious for someone to even claim that! :lol
It was so funny I almost sharted when I read it! :lol

[desflood]

Honestly, I have seen more boring fights in Pride than UFC. But I think the skill level is so much higher it's worth having to watch a few more snoozefests to see it.

[Mr Dio]

Honestly, I have seen more boring fights in Pride than UFC. But I think the skill level is so much higher it's worth having to watch a few more snoozefests to see it.


pride does have some good fights.
I've seen good fights in a few organizations on some HD channels, online, PPV, etc.......
BUT, I can't show an obvious love affair for pride (or any org) & get pissed when someone else disagrees.
If someone doesn't like something that I do, so what????
I just don't give an org alot of cred when it still has freak fights to draw attention to itself. :lol

[Mr Dio]

I still state the best way to determine the best fighter in a weight div/class/area is head-to-head.

[desflood]

ha ha ha ha ha - yes, let's talk Giant Silva for a second... that's not really about attention, though. it's more about putting on a show that the japanese fans will be entertained by.

[Mr Dio]

ha ha ha ha ha - yes, let's talk Giant Silva for a second... that's not really about attention, though. it's more about putting on a show that the japanese fans will be entertained by.

:lol

What about Verne Troyer vs "Insert pride guy here"??????????
I'd surely pay for that!!! :lol :lol :lol

[tlongII]

IMO, UFC puts more emphasis on promoting their brand than Pride. I think they end up with better produced shows that often are more entertaining than the Pride shows. However, Pride offers larger purses to their fighters and therefore gets the top bad-asses from around the globe. UFC seems a little more focused on American fighters.

[LEONARD]

I knew that would get some replies... :lol


Let's settle this somewhat more objectively

Judging by the majority of the rankings (the welterweight division being a notable exception), I would have to say that the Pride org. definitely tops the UFC as far as skill level, quality of matches, etc. That being said, I still prefer to watch the UFC.

Pride doesn't have a WW division... ;)


Oh NO!!!
Don't put Chuck above Silva or Leo will prove will his opinion that you're wrong!

I have no problem with most of the rankings having Chuck ahead of the Pride guys. That's why I wanted the Silva-Liddell fight to happen!!! The point I made above is that the Pride LHW division is MUCH better overall than the UFC's. You said that Silva would be "moving up" when there is only one guy to fight in that org. You didn't counter that point with anything though, as expected...

Last week they had Franklin #1 and you saw what a 2nd tier Pride MW did to him... :ihit

Same thing would happen to Tim Sylvia (take your pick from about 5 or 6 HW's in Pride)...

Gomi (among others) would destroy Sherk...he couldn't even finish Kenny F'n Florian in 25 min's!!! WTF??

and in MY OPINION, Wand Silva would beat Chuck. I'm not alone in that OPINION...


Easy way to get leo all upset is to downgrade Silva below Tito. Who is better leo, Silva or Tito. leo states that he puts fight history & fact, OK, Who won the Tito vs Silva fight?............Yeah, that what I thought

I said fight history, not MMA math. Tito beat Silva 6 years ago! Silva has gotten much better since then. What has Tito done? Lost to Couture and Chuck, and beaten Shamrock 3 times :lol He's fought 12 times to Silva's 25. And the level of competition that Silva has fought since then is so much higher (surely you can agree on that?!)...HW's like Crocop (twice - draw and a loss), Hunt (lost split decision), & Fujita...he split 2 fights with Arona...crushed Rampage twice...beat Dan Henderson...and beat Sakuraba 3 times (who you said was one of the few exciting fighters in Pride).

Anybody that would consider Tito above Silva is clueless...


pride does have some good fights.
I've seen good fights in a few organizations on some HD channels, online, PPV, etc.......
BUT, I can't show an obvious love affair for pride (or any org) & get pissed when someone else disagrees.
If someone doesn't like something that I do, so what????
I just don't give an org alot of cred when it still has freak fights to draw attention to itself. :lol

I'm not pissed that you don't agree...just baffled at the things you say and the reasoning you give for your opinions.

Pride has SOME good fights? :lol Like I said...you just haven't watched much Pride. If Pride has "some" then the UFC has "none"...

LMAO...Pride certainly doesn't need "freak fights" to draw attention to itself. The fact that they have many more top 10 fighters in the world than any other org does that. Who gives a flying f about the occasional freak fight?? :lol Are they filling 50k+ seat stadiums because of a freak fight a few times a year? Don't think so...


I still state the best way to determine the best fighter in a weight div/class/area is head-to-head.

Captain Obvious to the rescue...do ya think so?? :lol

The problem is that the UFC is a business. Does Dana White want to risk having all of his posterboys get smashed by guys that don't speak English and who most of the current fanbase doesn't know? Anderson Silva cost him millions...he probably won't be too motivated to bring over more Pride fighters, or ex-Pride fighters. There isn't a WW division in Pride so Hughes is safe from that unless a guy moves up or down (go GSP go!). Except for Sylvia...I don't think Dana likes him. He'd probably like to see him get smashed in order to have a respectable HW division...

[LEONARD]

IMO, UFC puts more emphasis on promoting their brand than Pride. I think they end up with better produced shows that often are more entertaining than the Pride shows. However, Pride offers larger purses to their fighters and therefore gets the top bad-asses from around the globe. UFC seems a little more focused on American fighters.

The UFC is definitely more focused on American fighters, but according to Dana White they're going international (UK, Mexico, etc).

What about the UFC shows is better produced or more entertaining? I've always found the Pride intros to be extremely well done, not that I care much about the intros. I'll see for myself this weekend in Vegas though...

[Mr Dio]

Anybody that would consider Tito above Silva is clueless...

:lmao I knew that would get a reply ASAP! :lol
Another Leonism?
If someone disagrees with leo they're "clueless" because The Legend in His Own Mind says so! :lol :lol :lol

[LEONARD]

I knew that would get a reply ASAP!
Another Leonism? If someone disagrees with leo they're "clueless" because The Legend in His Own Mind says so!

LMAO...here's a thought. Tell me why my statement is wrong in your OPINION?? Maybe even try backing it with some facts like I did... (referring to Tito over Silva)

[tlongII]

The UFC is definitely more focused on American fighters, but according to Dana White they're going international (UK, Mexico, etc).

What about the UFC shows is better produced or more entertaining? I've always found the Pride intros to be extremely well done, not that I care much about the intros. I'll see for myself this weekend in Vegas though...

I don't care about intros. I like the cage better than a ring. I also think you get excellent camera shots with UFC since they have to get high over the top of the cage. Just my opinion.

[LEONARD]

I don't care about intros. I like the cage better than a ring. I also think you get excellent camera shots with UFC since they have to get high over the top of the cage. Just my opinion.

That's cool...that's all I was asking for :fro

I think it's easier to see into the ring, but prefer the cage to prevent re-setting and guys using the ring (ie, leaving it) to buy time. Not a huge deal for me either way. I like Pride's rules a little better...especially the 10 min 1st round...

[Mr Dio]

Tell me why my statement is wrong in your OPINION?? Maybe even try backing it with some facts like I did... (referring to Tito over Silva)

That was too easy for me! :lol :lol
I've once again shown how your bias for pride clouds what little common sense you've shown on this board.
Your argument is that Silva has gotten better but not Tito? :lmao
And who would think that you're not a Legend in Your Own Mind? :rollin

I thought head-to-head was obvious??? :lol
Sorry to use your own argument to own you son.
It is tooooo easy. :lmao

[LEONARD]

That was too easy for me! I've once again shown how your bias for pride clouds what little common sense you've shown on this board.
Your argument is that Silva has gotten better but not Tito? And who would think that you're not a Legend in Your Own Mind?

I thought head-to-head was obvious??? Sorry to use your own argument to own you son. It is tooooo easy

Reply #398 by Mr Dio that makes no sense and is not even relevant to what he's responding to. Congrats!! :smokin

Seriously...WTF are you talking about?

[Mr Dio]

Reply #398 by Mr Dio that makes no sense and is not even relevant to what he's responding to. Congrats!!

Wow!
Now that's a SOLID argument.
A true Leo-nism!
Yet another one of your SENSELESS posts. :lol :lol

[LEONARD]

Wow...

[tlongII]

That's cool...that's all I was asking for :fro

I think it's easier to see into the ring, but prefer the cage to prevent re-setting and guys using the ring (ie, leaving it) to buy time. Not a huge deal for me either way. I like Pride's rules a little better...especially the 10 min 1st round...

I think you're right about the visibility if you're actually at the fight. I haven't attended an MMA fight so all I see is camera shots.

I think I like UFC rules better. Pride lets guys kick their opponent in the head when they're down. I think that's bullshit.

[LEONARD]

I think you're right about the visibility if you're actually at the fight. I haven't attended an MMA fight so all I see is camera shots.

I think I like UFC rules better. Pride lets guys kick their opponent in the head when they're down. I think that's bullshit.

I have no problem with soccer kicks really...not everybody can do it (risk of injuriing your foot) and it provides excellent motivation for the opponent to get back up against certain fighters (ie, W Silva, Shogun, Crocop). I could do without stomps though...just like I could do without elbows in the UFC. Two reasons for that: 1. Too easy to cut and end a fight when the fighter isn't even hurt (what if Sherk would've lost because of that? KenFlo as the champ??!! :drunk ) or turn it into a bloodbath, which isn't good for the sport. 2. I don't care for that style of fighting (ie, Tito, Hughes, etc)...pin them down and elbow.

[IX_Equilibrium]

The "What is better, Pride or UFC?" argument is fucking lame and pointless.

MMA has come very far in the last 6 or 7 years, and both organizations are responsible for its success. If there were only one organization with no competition, the sport would become stagnant. That is why I welcome ventures such as IFL.

We all have our preferences of Pride or UFC, but entirely too much time and energy are spent by many on trying to defame one promotion or another. When all is said and done, both promotions are great and have much to offer in the future.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

I have no problem with soccer kicks really...not everybody can do it (risk of injuriing your foot) and it provides excellent motivation for the opponent to get back up against certain fighters (ie, W Silva, Shogun, Crocop). I could do without stomps though...just like I could do without elbows in the UFC. Two reasons for that: 1. Too easy to cut and end a fight when the fighter isn't even hurt (what if Sherk would've lost because of that? KenFlo as the champ??!! :drunk ) or turn it into a bloodbath, which isn't good for the sport. 2. I don't care for that style of fighting (ie, Tito, Hughes, etc)...pin them down and elbow.

i disagree the soccer kick is stupid kicking someone when they are down..and tito and hughes don't rely on elbows to fight tito just punched ken into retirment in his last fight..imo elbows are fine and if you place an elbow right and it ends the fight then thats that but kicking someone in the face while they are on the ground is just stupid

[LEONARD]

The "What is better, Pride or UFC?" argument is fucking lame and pointless.

MMA has come very far in the last 6 or 7 years, and both organizations are responsible for its success. If there were only one organization with no competition, the sport would become stagnant. That is why I welcome ventures such as IFL.

We all have our preferences of Pride or UFC, but entirely too much time and energy are spent by many on trying to defame one promotion or another. When all is said and done, both promotions are great and have much to offer in the future.

I agree that it's lame to sit around and argue about it, but that's what message boards are usually for :lol Ford or Chevy? UT or OU? etc etc There are plenty of UFC fighters that I like. Most of the ones I don't like is because of their attitude and not their abilities...

I love the sport...it's surpassed the NFL and NBA for me, which is crazy. If you'd have told me that a few years ago I would've told you you were nuts...

I too welcome more org's. I've seen every IFL event and the last WFA event...I'll watch just about anything that's on or can be downloaded...


i disagree the soccer kick is stupid kicking someone when they are down..and tito and hughes don't rely on elbows to fight tito just punched ken into retirment in his last fight..imo elbows are fine and if you place an elbow right and it ends the fight then thats that but kicking someone in the face while they are on the ground is just stupid

You're entitled to your opinion...

but Tito doesn't rely on elbows because of of his 3rd fight with Ken? wtf?

Ken 2 - nothing but elbows
Forrest - hammered with elbows for most of the 1st round
Cote - survived the elbows for 3 rds

Not going back any further than that...

[Rip-Hamilton32]

tito uses the ground and pound which includes elbows but i don't think he needs them to win, but i think the forrest fight was rigged forrest stopped most of his take downs and was the only 1 of the 2 to actually do damage

[Rip-Hamilton32]

i can't wait for ufc 65 when jeff monson finally gets his title shot, i think jeff will win this one in a decision because tims last fight was a pillow fight and jeff has great take down and submission, and then theres the gsp vs hughes i don't see hughes coming out on top of this one he barley got past penn and thats because he was drained but gsp is in better shape and imo is a much better fighter

[LEONARD]

tito uses the ground and pound which includes elbows but i don't think he needs them to win, but i think the forrest fight was rigged forrest stopped most of his take downs and was the only 1 of the 2 to actually do damage

Rigged?? There is no way Forrest won that fight...you got caught up in the Forrest hype...

and damage???

Forrest near the end of the fight
http://www.sherdog.com/_images/pictures/27973.jpg

Tito post-fight
http://www.sherdog.com/_images/pictures/27974.jpg

Maybe you need to re-watch that one :dizzy


i don't see hughes coming out on top of this one he barley got past penn and thats because he was drained but gsp is in better shape and imo is a much better fighter

Penn wasn't drained. He's separated his ribs while twisting around for Matt's back.
http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=2800
http://www.bjpenn.com/images/other/BJ%20Report.pdf

He gas'd in his fight with GSP last spring...

I hope GSP beats Hughes...and I think he CAN beat Hughes. I think Penn can beat them both if he's in shape and doesn't have a freak injury...

[Rip-Hamilton32]

neither fighter was actually hurt in the forrest and tito fight and im not caught up in the forrest hype your just caught up in the tito hype and forrest won that fight on 2 cards then was fucked over on the 3rd card so maybe you should re watch it

[LEONARD]

neither fighter was actually hurt in the forrest and tito fight and im not caught up in the forrest hype your just caught up in the tito hype and forrest won that fight on 2 cards then was fucked over on the 3rd card so maybe you should re watch it

I'm actually caught up in the "reality" hype and the reality is that there is no way in hell that Forrest won round 3. And if even if you gave him round 3 it'd be 28-28 because the 1st was a 10-8 round if I've ever seen one. Take a poll on ANY MMA site and I think you'll see that most agree that Tito won...

Forrest wasn't hurt at all in the 1st round?? :dizzy

Try This thread (http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=365651)...one of about 100 you'll find if you search "tito forrest" there...this guy broke it down punch by punch in slow motion.

No way Forrest won the 3rd...

I know damage isn't a factor in scoring the fight like in Pride, but Forrest was hammered in the 1st, edged Tito out in the 2nd with good takedown defense, and while the 3rd was close, he didn't really do anything but was taken down by Tito. Forrest throws lots of sloppy punches and the fans actually think he's doing something.

Forrest - Bonnar 1 was an entertaining fight, but it was extremely sloppy. So far from the top of the list of "great" fights it's not even funny. Lots of hype with Forrest because of that. With that said, I still like him and pull for him. I wanted him to beat Tito but thought the results were correct...

[cornbread]

[QUOTE=LEONARD]I'm actually caught up in the "reality" hype and the reality is that there is no way in hell that Forrest won round 3. And if even if you gave him round 3 it'd be 28-28 because the 1st was a 10-8 round if I've ever seen one. Take a poll on ANY MMA site and I think you'll see that most agree that Tito won...

You're absolutely right. Tito clearly won based on the scoring system. I remember watching that fight with a bunch of people who didn't know who Tito was but oh how they LOVED Forrest. Of course they all screamed and cried that the decision was wrong.
Then Wandy walked up to the Octagon to meet Chuck. The same folks who told me I was an idiot because I thought the decision was right had no idea who The Axe Murderer was.
It seems these days that everybody has an opinion on MMA but few know what they're talking about.

[cornbread]

neither fighter was actually hurt in the forrest and tito fight and im not caught up in the forrest hype your just caught up in the tito hype and forrest won that fight on 2 cards then was fucked over on the 3rd card so maybe you should re watch it

You're half right. Tito didn't get hurt at all. But Forrest did get f*cked up by those elbows!

Stop making excuses. Forrest even admitted that Tito rightfully won that fight.

It was pretty awesome to see Forrest surive the 3 rounds though. A rematch in a couple of years could go the other way.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

i believe the score cards were 2 in favor of forrest but tito got the last one 30-27 which gave him the fight and forrest stopped almost all of tito's takedowns which is hard to do with tito's power and he did better in the stand up

[LEONARD]

i believe the score cards were 2 in favor of forrest but tito got the last one 30-27 which gave him the fight and forrest stopped almost all of tito's takedowns which is hard to do with tito's power and he did better in the stand up

Seriously dude...

If Forrest would've won on 2 judge's cards, he would've won the decision. Do you even understand the scoring system?

2 judges had Tito and 1 had Forrest...that's all that matters. Doesn't matter if the judges had them 29-28 or 30-27...