Bush requesting assistance from James Baker II

[JoeChalupa]

I don't have a link but I heard that Bush is putting together a task force to research other options for dealing with the Iraq War and has asked James Baker II to head to force.
Finally Bush is opening up to other options other than just "stay the course".
Good for him.

[101A]

James Baker is one of few Republicans left whom the public doesn't have a bad view of. Hopefully this is a real commission, and will not just be a spin machine. (hope they decide we need more troops).

[boutons_]

Too late.

Iraq is lost, irretrievably lost.

A majority of Iraqis, including Shiites, now supports attacks on the US military.

A larger majority of Iraqis want the US totally out of Iraq (no permanent bases) by end of 2007, convinced that the US military presence is continuing and provoking the violence.

aka, "their hearts and minds" of Iraqis are NOT following the Repugs.

The Iraqis just voted yesterday to break up Iraq into 3 states in a "federal" system. GMAFB They fiddle while Iraq burns.

While probably a majority of Iraqis were on the US military side vs Saddam and were believing the promises of peace, reconstruction, and democracy in 2003, the Iraqis NOW are hiding, supporting, feeding, aiding the insurgents, militia, al-Qaida AGAINST the US military, much like the Vietnamese "hearts and minds" supported the VC and NVA against the US military.

The majority of Americans don't support the war, sees it as unjustifiable and not part of the war on terror. ie, they think the WH has been lying to them on both counts.

And above all, even the red-state Americans won't volunteer in suffiicient numbers to go fight the Repugs' phony war. And the Repugs aren't even asking the rest of the country to share the mortal sacrifice the Repugs have forced onto the military.

Rummy still doesn't support more troops, and he "washed his hands" of the military request for just 30K more troops, and made the military, for the time first ever, take their budget request for 30K more troops directly to HW/OMB. ie, Rummy and his civilian desk-jockeys wouldn't even support that request themselves.

The Repugs weren't serious and competent enough in 02/03, having lied their way into Iraq, to plan and execute the war.

When controlling and winning Iraq 3 years ago was so much easier, even "slam dunk" easier, the Repugs failed miserably on every single count. Humongous mistakes now impossibly more difficult to overcome, just to get back to where Iraq was 3 years ago.

Now, with the Iraq situation 10 times worse than in May 03 and worsening daily, there is no motherfucking way that the Repugs, or the next administration, will succeed.

Anything from the WH just 3 weeks before the elections is done purely for domestic, partisan reasons, NOT to actually change anything in Iraq, especially from a WH that has been, by all accounts, but 100% politics for 6 1/2 years, while doing nothing about policy nor about truly running the government.

dubya/dickhead have absolutely no credibility, their ratings are in the toilet, and they have no good faith from the majority of Americans.

Both of them absolutely suck donkey dick as "leaders".

[JoeChalupa]

It is never too late.

[DFW Spurs]

Too late.

Iraq is lost, irretrievably lost.

A majority of Iraqis, including Shiites, now supports attacks on the US military.


How do you know? Have you been to Iraq?

My brother is a week removed from being in Iraq and said that the only fucked up places in Iraq are the areas around Bagdad and Anbar. So what about the other providences? You don't know because the news doesn't report it and your not there. He was stationed just outside of Mosul (Al Mawsil) for a year and saw limited combat with insurgents. It’s no Pleasantville, but it’s not the end of the world either.

It just goes to show that Dems are pessimists hoping America fails and repubs are trying to blow sunshine up everyone’s ass that all is ok in Iraq.

It far from being a lost cause and the Iraqis do want us there. Lets all form our own opinions with out carrying your party’s flag... :worthy: Go Dems Go Repubs... Retards...

[boutons_]

"How do you know? Have you been to Iraq?"

Of course not, nor has anybody else in this forum. Is having been to Iraq a requirement to post in this forum? If so, then you STFU.

The polls of Iraqis, difficult as they are to conduct in the absence of public security, have been reported in the press recently.

"the Iraqis do want us there"

How do you know? Have you been there? Why don't a majority Iraqis says in polls that they want us there? 60% - 40% Iraqis against the USA, a percentage that would be a landslide victory in any political election. dubya won in 2004 with 50.73% to Kerry's 48.27% of votes.

I absolutely want Iraq and Afghanistan to be "won", neither country can be lost (at least in the short term. They will both go Muslim theorcracy later if not sooner), I don't want another life wasted for the Repugs phony war, but the Repugs have fucked up both countires so badly, the situation is so much more difficult now that 3 years ago, that the Repugs are so far in over their heads by "staying the course" that they don't have clue how to proceed to turn the situation around, never mind actually prevail

[clambake]

So, he's going to listen to Baker?

He better run it past Laura and that fucking dog first.

[JoeChalupa]

It is NOT only "Dems" that are pessimistic about Iraq. I get tired of that crap. There are many "Dems" fighting in Iraq right now and I personally know quite a few. Of course Iraq is not a totall quagmire and I as a "Dems" know and acknowledge all the good that has been done after the "Mission Accomplished" celebration but we must also face the facts that the small part of Iraq that is not stable is also costing many lives on a daily basis and that is not a stretch of the truth.

[DFW Spurs]

How do you know? Have you been to Iraq?

Of course not, nor has anybody else in this forum. Is having been to Iraq a requirement to post in this forum? If so, then you STFU.

The polls, the press, the problem with this country is they have too much faith in the media. I have not been to Iraq but have served my country in Kuwait and have first hand experiance. I was right there when Saddam was shooting at our Aircraft in the No Fly zone and thumbing his nose at us and Clinton was spouting his Iraqi Regime change banter... As for me STFU, its easy to talk big on a fourm, its also easy to play couch commando. I'll just leave it at that.

[boutons_]

"too much faith in the media."

who else to believe? the spin the from the WH? Rummy? Condi? The Army? (Rummy trashing Shinsheki shut up all dissent in the military). Fox News?

The Woodward book has confirmed what a lot of people, even inside the Beltway, already believed: the WH has been lying to us, they can't be trusted, they have no credibility.

"thumbing his nose at us"

So your fucking macho pride was insulted? So you grab your crotch and go start a war?

Saddam was no risk to USA or anybody else. He wasn't part of the war on terror, that was just another lie from dubya/dickhead.

For 12 years, Saddam couldn't shoot any coalition planes, and every time he shot at us, the coaltion planes took out the A-A installations, reducing the low risk even more.

Since you didn't serve in Iraq, you don't have to STFU anymore that I do. :)

And do we believe the soldiers in Iraq? Of course there are Iraqis who believe in the US and express that to the US soldiers, but are they offset by many more Iraqis who help the insurgents, militia, and al Qaida?

The military MUST believe in their mission, or they'd be insane to be over there.

But do they really see their mission being accomplished?

Is the majority of Iraqi hearts and minds supporting the US military?

Is construction and repair of infrastructure progressing to convince those hearts and minds that the US is serious and will really "stay the course"?

Are the Iraqi military and police, known widely to be infiltrated by militia, capable of standing up?

Sure, there are spots of success, but do they come anywhere near, after 3+ years, of offsetting all the failures in Iraq?

The WH isn't even trying to refute all the bad news.
There's not even any debate that the situation is Iraq is deteriorating.

[01Snake]

The Woodward book has confirmed what a lot of people, even inside the Beltway, already believed: the WH has been lying to us, they can't be trusted, they have no credibility.

If its in his book...it must be true. :rolleyes





Saddam was no risk to USA or anybody else. He wasn't part of the war on terror, that was just another lie from dubya/dickhead.

Nobody else though he was a threat right? (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/16/transcripts/clinton.html)

[johnsmith]

I have Boutons on ignore and I can still tell he's getting his ass handed to him in this thread.

[JoeChalupa]

I wouldn't say that at all.

[Zunni]

I have Boutons on ignore and I can still tell he's getting his ass handed to him in this thread.
I'll bet you open every single message of his and read it.

[boutons_]

JS is one of these faith-based assholes.

He "believes" I'm getting my ass handed to me without any evidence. :lol

He's hoping somebody hands my ass to me, since he, or she, couldn't do it him/herself.

[PixelPusher]

...faith-based assholes....

Quoting Karl Rove is very unbecoming of you, boutons.

[boutons_]

unbecoming? since when is a political forum a beauty/popularity contest? :lol

[01Snake]

unbecoming? since when is a political forum a beauty/popularity contest? :lol

Lucky for you its not...otherwise you would be on everyones ignore list. :lol

[Ozzman]

"too much faith in the media."

who else to believe? the spin the from the WH? Rummy? Condi? The Army? (Rummy trashing Shinsheki shut up all dissent in the military). Fox News?

The Woodward book has confirmed what a lot of people, even inside the Beltway, already believed: the WH has been lying to us, they can't be trusted, they have no credibility.

"thumbing his nose at us"

So your fucking macho pride was insulted? So you grab your crotch and go start a war?

Saddam was no risk to USA or anybody else. He wasn't part of the war on terror, that was just another lie from dubya/dickhead.

For 12 years, Saddam couldn't shoot any coalition planes, and every time he shot at us, the coaltion planes took out the A-A installations, reducing the low risk even more.

Since you didn't serve in Iraq, you don't have to STFU anymore that I do. :)

And do we believe the soldiers in Iraq? Of course there are Iraqis who believe in the US and express that to the US soldiers, but are they offset by many more Iraqis who help the insurgents, militia, and al Qaida?

The military MUST believe in their mission, or they'd be insane to be over there.

But do they really see their mission being accomplished?

Is the majority of Iraqi hearts and minds supporting the US military?

Is construction and repair of infrastructure progressing to convince those hearts and minds that the US is serious and will really "stay the course"?

Are the Iraqi military and police, known widely to be infiltrated by militia, capable of standing up?

Sure, there are spots of success, but do they come anywhere near, after 3+ years, of offsetting all the failures in Iraq?

The WH isn't even trying to refute all the bad news.
There's not even any debate that the situation is Iraq is deteriorating.


I don't listen to Fox news...they suck, but I SURE AS HELL's ASS am NOT going to watch/read/listen to THE WASH-FUCKING-TON POST.

I rely On my Native papers...I find there to be MUCH less bias on those. There's an Obvious Left Wing bias in the Washington Post, and there sure as hell is a Right wing, republican view in Fox News. Therefore they are BOTH unreliable. to say this, journalists and news corporations RARELY know WHO TO CONTACT and HOW to contact them when it comes to science and other various Expertise-led fields. the people they usually contact are anything BUT experts.

[Ozzman]

*by native, I mean Canadien papers.

[PixelPusher]

I don't listen to Fox news...they suck, but I SURE AS HELL's ASS am NOT going to watch/read/listen to THE WASH-FUCKING-TON POST.

I rely On my Native papers...I find there to be MUCH less bias on those. There's an Obvious Left Wing bias in the Washington Post, and there sure as hell is a Right wing, republican view in Fox News. Therefore they are BOTH unreliable. to say this, journalists and news corporations RARELY know WHO TO CONTACT and HOW to contact them when it comes to science and other various Expertise-led fields. the people they usually contact are anything BUT experts.

*by native, I mean Canadien papers.

passionate cursing..."ALL CAPS" shouting...are you sure you're a Canadian? I think your time spent in Alaska has "Americanized" you a bit. :lol

[Ozzman]

Yes....I am sure I am canadien. I don't know about americanized, but it would seem the only way to get people on this decrepid forum's attention is by All caps and swearing. Still not sure about americanized....I sure as hell hope not...hehe.

Of course I must say that the drug culture here is not as....accepted as it is where I live in canada (cept for here in Alaska lol)...quite interesting to me.

The only reason I am here anyway is just to get an education, then I am OUT of here...

[JoeChalupa]

"In my view, it is not appeasement to talk to your enemies," James Baker, secretary of State for the former President Bush, said this week.

[clambake]

Baker is a self-described stick and carrot man.

I wouldn't put much faith in him getting through to that dipshit.

[Yonivore]

passionate cursing..."ALL CAPS" shouting...are you sure you're a Canadian? I think your time spent in Alaska has "Americanized" you a bit. :lol
And, I believe "WASH-FUCK-INGTON POST" is more accurate.

[boutons_]

Forget Jim "over and over and over and over and over" Baker and his black suits and gay ties.

Baker is a cynical Repug election tactic. dickhead and rummy will never support real dialog. Rummy wants NK to collapse with a severe embargo, while dickhead very probably wants to "shock and awe" NK.

The port security bill is more Repug electrioneering. This bill may be worthless as shit in improving port security, but why a couple weeks before an election, 5+ years after 9/11 ? :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/13/AR2006101300147.html

The gambling tack-on is a bone towards "Christians" who want to legislate their specific sect's "morality".