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boutons
10-29-2004, 08:06 PM
Iraq death toll 'soared post-war'

Poor planning, air strikes by coalition forces and a "climate of violence" have led to more than 100,000 extra deaths in Iraq, scientists claim.

A study published by the Lancet says the risk of death by violence for civilians in Iraq is now 58 times higher than before the US-led invasion.

Unofficial estimates of civilian deaths had varied from 10,000 to over 37,000.

The Lancet admits the research is based on a small sample - under 1,000 homes - but says the findings are "convincing".

Responding to the Lancet article, a Pentagon spokesman defended coalition action in Iraq.

'Precise fashion'

"This conflict has been prosecuted in the most precise fashion of any conflict in the history of modern warfare", he said.

UK foreign secretary Jack Straw said his government would examine the findings "with very great care".

But he told BBC's Today that another independent estimate of civilian deaths was around 15,000.

The Iraq Body Count, a respected database run by a group of academics and peace activists, has put the number of reported civilian deaths at between 14,000-16,000.

HAVE YOUR SAY
It's going to be very hard for the US and UK authorities to ignore this report
John, Canada

The Lancet published research by scientists from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in the US city of Baltimore.

They gathered data on births and deaths since January 2002 from 33 clusters of 30 households each across Iraq.

They found the relative risk, the risk of deaths from any cause, was two-and-a-half times higher for Iraqi civilians after the 2003 invasion than in the preceding 15 months.

'Conservative assumptions'

That figure drops to one-and-a-half times higher if data from Falluja - the scene of repeated heavy fighting - is excluded.

Before the invasion, most people died as a result of heart attack, stroke and chronic illness, the report says, whereas after the invasion, "violence was the primary cause of death".

Violent deaths were mainly attributed to coalition forces - and most individuals reportedly killed were women and children.

Dr Les Roberts, who led the study, said: "Making conservative assumptions we think that about 100,000 excess deaths, or more, have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

"Violence accounted for most of the excess deaths and air strikes from coalition forces accounted for most of the violent deaths."

He said his team's work proved it was possible to compile data on public health "even during periods of extreme violence".

The sample included randomly selected households in Baghdad, Basra, Arbil, Najaf and Karbala, as well as Falluja.

Lancet editor Richard Horton said: "With the admitted benefit of hindsight and from a purely public health perspective, it is clear that whatever planning did take place was grievously in error."

Civilian toll estimates at 10/04
Iraq Body Count: 14-16,000
Brookings Inst: 10-27,000
UK foreign secretary: >10,000
People's Kifah >37,000
Lancet: >100,000

Mr Horton concluded: "For the sake of a country in crisis and for a people under daily threat of violence, the evidence we publish today must change heads as well as pierce hearts."

No official estimate

There is no official estimate of the number of Iraqi civilians who have died since the outbreak of the war in Iraq.

Human rights groups say the occupying powers have failed in their duty to catalogue the deaths, giving the impression that ordinary Iraqis' lives are worth less than those of their soldiers for whom detailed statistics are available.

However, the Pentagon spokesman said "there is no accurate way to validate the estimates of civilian casualties by this or any other organisation".

He added: The loss of any innocent lives is a tragedy, something Iraqi security forces and the Multi-National Force painstakingly work to avoid.

"Former regime elements and insurgents have made it a practice of using civilians as human shields, operating and conducting attacks against coalition forces from within areas inhabited by civilians."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm

Published: 2004/10/29 16:09:11 GMT

© BBC MMIV

whottt
10-29-2004, 08:53 PM
If you want the death toll to stop rising you should ask the Iraqis to stop fighting us.

Nbadan
10-29-2004, 09:22 PM
If you want the death toll to stop rising you should ask the Iraqis to stop fighting us.

I thought the position has always been that it was fighters from other countries fighting us in Iraq? Have you conceded that we are fighting the Iraqi people themselves? Is this any way to 'liberate' a country?

Don't get me wrong, Saddam was a SOB, and sooner rather than later he needed to be gone, but the angst with which the adminstration went into Iraq, without the proper heavy armor, without the necessary number of troops, without proper body armour for some of our troops, without a plan for securing weapons sites like Al Qa Qaa, or even the Iraqi National Museum which housed irreplaceable artifacts that only through the smart thinking of the curators wasn't completely decimated, I mean all this just screams of incompetence. How can anyone continue to defend this administration on Iraq?

whottt
10-29-2004, 09:29 PM
Yeah we are and have been fighting some Iraqis. I nevewr said we weren't...I question how many of the suicide bombers are Iraqi though.

Still...
Al-Sadr is an Iraqi.

The foreign terrorists are obviously allied with the Baathists. But I still believe the majority of the Iraqis are on our side.

boutons
10-30-2004, 11:00 AM
shrub/dickhead have the blood of 1000's of Iraqi innocents, and the blood of 1000+ wasted lives of US troops on their hands.

The insurgents, joined by newly recruited terrorists, wouldn't be fighting us in Iraq, if shrub/dickhead hadn't lied the USA into Iraq in the first place, but rather fought the war on terror on terrrorists, which excludes Saddam/Iraq.

Clandestino
10-30-2004, 12:30 PM
the war lasted 2 months. not much time to die in that war. plus the iraqi army didn't want to fight. they wanted to be liberated...and those are part of the brave 100 thousands signing up to protect their country and rid it of the terrorists...

ChumpDumper
10-30-2004, 12:33 PM
not much time to die in that war.How much time does one need to die?

Clandestino
10-30-2004, 12:38 PM
How much time does one need to die?

you can't compare the number of deaths that occur in two months to the amount that occur in 12+months.

ChumpDumper
10-30-2004, 12:42 PM
you can't compare the number of deaths that occur in two months to the amount that occur in 12+months.Sure you can, considering the scope of operations in both time periods.

The big news is we aren't even bothering to estimate casualties -- the last time we had someone do that, she got fired for releasing a number the first Bush asministration thought was too high.

Clandestino
10-30-2004, 12:45 PM
Sure you can, considering the scope of operations in both time periods.

The big news is we aren't even bothering to estimate casualties -- the last time we had someone do that, she got fired for releasing a number the first Bush asministration thought was too high.

okay, you're correct... you CAN compare the numbers..BUT whatever you deduce will mean nothing...

ChumpDumper
10-30-2004, 12:46 PM
whatever you deduce will mean nothing.The fact that thousands have died after "major military operations" have ceased speaks for itself.

whottt
10-30-2004, 01:40 PM
shrub/dickhead have the blood of 1000's of Iraqi innocents, and the blood of 1000+ wasted lives of US troops on their hands.




So, Traitor Kerry and his pro terrorist/communist followers have the deaths of about 4 million South VietNamese and Cambodians on their hands...plus wasting the life of every troop who died in Vietnam.

boutons
10-30-2004, 01:48 PM
"4 million South VietNamese and Cambodians"

Kerry didn't start the war in VN, shrub started Iraq, Kerry wasn't commander-in-chief then, shrub is now, how is Kerry responsible for 4 millions deaths?

shrub and his bogus war have now replaced Saddam as the biggest killer of innocent Iraqis, aka, "freedom is on the march".

boutons
10-30-2004, 01:51 PM
"the war lasted 2 months"

yes, yes, the faux flyboy's "Mission Accomplished" in June 03?? ah, yes, lest we forget the photo op standing ..... in a pool of US military blood.

Tell the poor military suckers in Iraq the war is over, eg, the 8 killed today.

Winehole23
10-17-2013, 02:31 AM
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/study-iraq-war-resulted-in-461000-iraqi-deaths/

The Reckoning
10-17-2013, 03:12 AM
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/study-iraq-war-resulted-in-461000-iraqi-deaths/


cardiovascular? people having heart attacks from stress or what?

Winehole23
10-17-2013, 11:00 AM
war is hell; stress kills.