Buck Harvey: No whine, no backlash for Duncan

[TMTTRIO]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA101506.01W.COL.BKNharvey.spurs.3679b3b.html
Buck Harvey: No whine, no backlash for Duncan

Web Posted: 10/15/2006 12:23 AM CDT


San Antonio Express-News

Manu Ginobili missed. And Tim Duncan, in ideal position for the rebound, stood poised to break the tie. Dirk Nowitzki would admit later, and replays verified it, he altered everything by whacking one of Duncan's arms.
No whistle followed. The Mavericks and Spurs went to overtime. And afterward, eliminated but calm, Duncan said he understood.

"I'd love to have a foul," Duncan said that night of the play. "But in that situation, they're not gonna make the call."

That's one explanation. Another is that the referees simply missed the play.

But there's also something else that could have been going on. Over the years Duncan has become more and more animated and persistent with officials, so much that some in his organization think the refs have tired of his act.

Given that, did the NBA's latest no-whine directive come a few years too late for Duncan?

Duncan returned to the AT&T Center on Saturday night for the first time since Game 7 against the Mavericks, and the league greeted him with a more tangible change. Then, in place of the traditional leather basketball, Duncan played with a micro-fiber creation.

Duncan repeated what his peers have said. "It's not good. Sometimes it's super sticky or super slick or super wet," he said Saturday. "It's got its own extremes."

David Stern defends changing the game's singular piece of equipment, as does Spalding. Then again, Stern and the Spalding salesmen don't play the game. They don't know what it takes to one-hand a rebound or finger-roll a drive, and that means they might as well tell a concert pianist that a plastic keyboard will work just as well.

But Duncan knows logic won't bring back the old ball. "Money doesn't allow it to go back," he said. And so Saturday, out for the tip, he grabbed the new ball as he always did the old one, wrapping his arms around it for a quick hug.

That image has been one of Duncan's identifiable ones. Another has come when he would widen his eyes and appear astonished a referee could differ with him.

He denies he gets too caught up with officiating, and he also says he was this way as a rookie, too. Most disagree with both statements. As Duncan grew as a player, he grew more adamant when calls went against him.

He rarely went Rasheed on anyone, and his reaction to the NBA's recent decision to lower its tolerance to complaining fits with his personality, too. Duncan shrugs and thinks things will eventually return to normal.

(Kevin Garnett, in contrast, claims the league mandate is "almost like communism, like Castro." Garnett is wrong, of course. Few in Cuba who earn $21 million this year will have to put up with the injustice of additional technical fouls.)

Stars of previous generations also worked the refs and for good reason. It worked. Stern said this month he's never "seen a call, or a non-call, reversed because a player complained." But how many times was the next call affected?

That, and frustration, drives Duncan. But too often this has morphed into harping, and it's a trait that sticks with Duncan. His post-call reaction has become as much his trademark as his smooth gifts.

Ever challenged — ever weary of the exercise — are officials whose union has wanted more support from the league office. As the refs compared notes, did they begin to see Duncan differently?

The non-call in Game 7 is just part of that. There was a sense throughout the Dallas series — especially when Duncan fouled out after Nowitzki stepped on his foot — that Duncan no longer had the status of an MVP.

The league now wants to cut out precisely what Duncan needs to cut out. He will argue again, but he will also counter as he did Saturday. Then, after a call he didn't like, he reacted with a smile and a clap of the hands.

Granted, it's only preseason. But he would have tamped down his complaints years ago if forced to.

And had he?

[T Park]

Ever challenged — ever weary of the exercise — are officials whose union has wanted more support from the league office

Players cant critique officiating, nor players or management for fear of a large fine.


This just will make the officiating even worse.

DONT YOU DARE QUESTION THE OFFICIATING ITS NEVER WRONG!!!!!


Pathetic.

[ATX Spur]

Players cant critique officiating, nor players or management for fear of a large fine.


This just will make the officiating even worse.

DONT YOU DARE QUESTION THE OFFICIATING ITS NEVER WRONG!!!!!


Pathetic.

Doesn't say they can't complain. They just can't degrade the game by whining.

By the by, I don't think any players fear the fine of a technical foul.

[Obstructed_View]

Doesn't say they can't complain. They just can't degrade the game by whining.
I agree. It's this that the league is getting tired of:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/05-06/0514timduncan.jpg
http://www.marca.es/marca_usa/nba/fotos0102/san_antonio_spurs/tim_duncan_020419.jpg
http://herbie.mlblogs.com/photos/geoffs_gooey_photos/duncan_complain.jpg
http://cdn.channel.aol.com/channels/05/00/44620ea4-00140-043da-400cb8e1

[George Gervin's Afro]

That image has been one of Duncan's identifiable ones. Another has come when he would widen his eyes and appear astonished a referee could differ with him.



I've never seen this before? :dramaquee :dramaquee :dramaquee

[ducks]

after so many t's
they have to sit out a game
that is what players fear

[1Parker1]

Kevin Garnett, in contrast, claims the league mandate is "almost like communism, like Castro." Garnett is wrong, of course. Few in Cuba who earn $21 million this year will have to put up with the injustice of additional technical fouls.)

:lol


The league now wants to cut out precisely what Duncan needs to cut out. He will argue again, but he will also counter as he did Saturday. Then, after a call he didn't like, he reacted with a smile and a clap of the hands.

Actually, I've seen Duncan do that before in earlier seasons with some calls he didn't like...

[boutons_]

"a smile and a clap of the hands."

ridicule and sarcasm will make him popular with the refs.

Grow up, Tim, they NEVER change a call, STFU, cut the melodrama, and play ball.
You can be a referee after you retire.

[wildbill2u]

The non-call in Game 7 is just part of that. There was a sense throughout the Dallas series — especially when Duncan fouled out after Nowitzki stepped on his foot — that Duncan no longer had the status of an MVP."

Forget about the refs reaction to whining. There is a difference in the way they make calls for superstars and for everybody else. If Duncan appears to the refs to be on his way down in terms of superstardom, he also wont get as many calls FOR him where he gets to make free throws as well as avoiding tickytacky fouls.

If you don't believe the above, go look at the final few seconds of the Chicago Utah game sometime where Jordan won the game by a shot in the last seconds. How did he get the shot off? He pushed the Utah player (Hornacek?) guarding him off balance and as he stumbled back out of the way Jordan put up his shot.

[Kori Ellis]

"a smile and a clap of the hands."

ridicule and sarcasm will make him popular with the refs.

Grow up, Tim, they NEVER change a call, STFU, cut the melodrama, and play ball.
You can be a referee after you retire.

It wasn't really ridicule and sarcasm. Duncan started to react how he normally would and caught himself, quickly changing it to clapping and smiling so that he wouldn't get in trouble. Give him a break. It's going to take players time to adjust.

[FromWayDowntown]

If you don't believe the above, go look at the final few seconds of the Chicago Utah game sometime where Jordan won the game by a shot in the last seconds. How did he get the shot off? He pushed the Utah player (Hornacek?) guarding him off balance and as he stumbled back out of the way Jordan put up his shot.

Really? I've never noticed that.

By the way, it was Bryon Russell. Had it been Hornacek, Jordan would have blown by for a dunk.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think the whole Spurs team would do well to ignore officiating and just play. I thought that in Games 3 and 4 of the Dallas series, the Spurs let the officiating become a distraction for periods of time and, instead of just playing through the things they couldn't control, the Spurs let it get to them.

Just play, baby. Just play.

[ShoogarBear]

Really? I've never noticed that.
Yeah, you think if there had been a pushoff, somebody might have mentioned it at least once before.

[BERSERK]

Yeah, you think if there had been a pushoff, somebody might have mentioned it at least once before.

Ask any basketball fan that, they'll see it as a push-off.

If you ask any Michael Jordan fan, they'll say "What push-off?".

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah, you think if there had been a pushoff, somebody might have mentioned it at least once before.
Fixed. Sigh.

[angel_luv]

It wasn't really ridicule and sarcasm. Duncan started to react how he normally would and caught himself, quickly changing it to clapping and smiling so that he wouldn't get in trouble. Give him a break. It's going to take players time to adjust.


:lol

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

Fucking noobs.

[boutons_]

"It's going to take players time to adjust."

If he can catch himself to clap and smile, he can catch him and not to clap and smile. It's not like they're kicking heroin or cigarettes.

[LilMissSPURfect]

I think the whole Spurs team would do well to ignore officiating and just play. I thought that in Games 3 and 4 of the Dallas series, the Spurs let the officiating become a distraction for periods of time and, instead of just playing through the things they couldn't control, the Spurs let it get to them.

Just play, baby. Just play.

sometime you can't ingore YOU getting stepped on for a FOUL!! :dizzy

and NOT just the SPURS but the whole league.

[Solid D]

A few years back, didn't Samuel L. Jackson do some spots around the All Star Game and one of the spots he said something about Timmy Duncan quit whinin' about every call...or something like that? It's kind of fuzzy in my mind, but I think I remember it went down like that.

[E20]

Why the hell does Duncan hug the ball? I know players have rituals, but what the fuck?

[Obstructed_View]

Someone was interviewing him in the offseason and asked some fluff question about if he could change any one thing about the NBA, expecting something joking like "let me dunk free throws" and he paused for a long time and then implied how unfair the officiating is and how something could be done. I thought that someone needed to tell Timmy to get the fuck over the olympics, already. It'd be nice to see him regain his focus and not let things out of his control take him out of his game.

[FromWayDowntown]

sometime you can't ingore YOU getting stepped on for a FOUL!! :dizzy

and NOT just the SPURS but the whole league.

The point is that even if the call is wrong, you can't let it get under your skin and affect your game. I understand that Tim fouled out because of the call that you cite, but that wasn't the only call that Spurs' players let bother them during that series. I think there were stretches of those games in which the Spurs were almost as concerned with the officiating as they were with the Mavericks. When you're playing someone who is as good as you are, you can't allow that sort of distraction to occur.

One of the great hallmarks of the 1999 and 2003 Spurs was that they didn't get rattled, even when they were taking bad calls on the road during the playoffs. They just kept going and found a way to overcome it. That's what the 2006-07 Spurs need to do, too.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Let's see - in last year's semis he fouled out at a crucial point of one game when someone LANDED ON HIS FOOT, and he was clearly HACKED on probably THE MOST IMPORTANT PLAY OF LAST YEAR FOR THE SPURS. Hmmmm... maybe it's just me, but when two poor decisions in the playoffs effectively decide your team's season, I think you should be able to be a bit demonstrative about it!

Some of these new policies are a freakin joke! No talking back. A slippery ball. No armbands or elastic bands on the wrist!?

Heck, we all know the NBA is full of gangstas, gagging them and and making sure they don't wear anything on their arms isn't changing a thing. I know that Stern is trying to make the game more "family friendly", but pulease, these changes are cosmetic horsesheeit. :rolleyes

Give the players the ball they want, let them wear armbands if they want, and recruit some referees who don't fvck up my team's season on bad calls. Seriously.

[Brutalis]

I feel bad for the way the game has changed. But TD knows he just has to roll with the punches. An NBA legend, a warrior.

[my2sons]

sterns just trying to top the no fun league

[freemeat]

That image has been one of Duncan's identifiable ones. Another has come when he would widen his eyes and appear astonished a referee could differ with him.



I've never seen this before? :dramaquee :dramaquee :dramaquee

Pre-game ritual.
http://herbie.mlblogs.com/photos/geoffs_gooey_photos/duncan_complain2.jpg

I was just wondering if we'll see the "half-fro" return this season. That was a good look, and I wish he went all the way with it.

[Tek_XX]

Can the league guarantee that the officiating will get better, seems like that would be a good trade off for this micromanaging

[Obstructed_View]

sterns just trying to top the no fun league
Yeah. Having all the pussies crying about every whistle, from both on AND OFF the court, is a fucking blast.

[Obstructed_View]

Can the league guarantee that the officiating will get better, seems like that would be a good trade off for this micromanaging
Do you think free throw percentage could go up if the fans weren't allowed to move or make noise? If officials can do their jobs without having to defend themselves from five whining players and coaches after every play, it doesn't seem like it could hurt their job performance.

[bdictjames]

Do you think free throw percentage could go up if the fans weren't allowed to move or make noise? If officials can do their jobs without having to defend themselves from five whining players and coaches after every play, it doesn't seem like it could hurt their job performance.
Stern's for the fans, he would never do that

[easjer]

Well, given how subjective the officiating is, it is entirely clear how the culture of 'whining' grew up. Refs would not change calls, but they would in fact alter their perspective on subsequent calls, and players would be rewarded for their 'whining' to the refs. If the officiating weren't so frequently off or bad, then the whining would not occur. Given some of the egregious examples of officiating displayed on a regular basis, I think the NBA should be doing their best to lessen the subjective nature of the calls if they are going to take one of the tools away from the players/coaches.

There is no reason that teams shouldn't be allowed to challenge calls or require official videotape reviews. Not every call (which would makes games unwatchable), but akin to the NFL system. A certain number of challenges per quarter/half/game and wasted timeouts if the challenge goes against you. But come on. You can bet your ass I'd complain too if I was fouled out because of another player's actions and no rule violation on my part.

I would like to see Tim and co. play through and not let it rattle them, but it has become clear that with certain officials especially, games will not be called evenly or fairly. If anything, given last year's playoffs, the NBA office should be taking steps to fix the officiating, not solidify the omnipotence of the officials.

[byrontx]

If Tim could hit from the Foul Line he would not be on the recieving end of so many fouls. Then the drama would not have to be such a part of his game. He is such a great player you would think he get that working.

[wildbill2u]

Really? I've never noticed that.

By the way, it was Bryon Russell. Had it been Hornacek, Jordan would have blown by for a dunk.
Thanks, I have CRS syndrome. Anyway, Jordan made a clever move on it. He caught Russell on his right hip with Jordan's left hand as he moved to drive right. Russell stumbled backward and out of the play. Jump shot. Swish for the game winner.

The refs may have seen it, but when it's the last second and the Legend has the ball against Byron Russell, who you gonna call? :dizzy

[Obstructed_View]

I liked Tom Arnold's quote on Best Damn Sports Show: "Hey Michael, Bryon Russel's car broke down, can you give him a push?" :lol

[Dirk41MVP]

DO they mention anything about having to give back championship trophies due to these enforced rules now ?... just wondering

[Obstructed_View]

DO they mention anything about having to give back championship trophies due to these enforced rules now ?... just wondering
Well, it IS the only way the Mavericks will ever get closer to the Spurs' championship total. :lol