Ludden: Houston's Yao provides test for Spurs' big men

[DieMrBond]

Houston's Yao provides test for Spurs' big men

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA102306.04D.BKNspurs.rockets.gamer.3572dac.html
Johnny Ludden
Express-News Staff Writer

HOUSTON — As the Spurs begin their final full week of preparation before the start of the season, coach Gregg Popovich remains undecided on how to fill the only hole in the team's starting lineup.

After discussing the situation with his staff Sunday morning, Popovich said he's still debating which approach will best suit the team.

"Should we just experiment?" Popovich said. "Or should we just pick a guy, somebody we feel might be best for the club in the long run, throw him into the fire like Tony Parker when he was 19, and help him grow?

"Or should we go the more steady route, and as the season goes on see if we want to change it?"

Fabricio Oberto and Francisco Elson, the two leading candidates for the role, both started Sunday night's 93-72 loss to Houston while Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Bruce Bowen and Parker remained in San Antonio to rest. After facing Shaquille O'Neal on Saturday, the Spurs' big men were tested against another All-Star center in the Rockets' 7-foot-6 Yao Ming.

Yao totaled 24 points and 10 rebounds, but Oberto and Elson were both effective for short stretches. Elson, who had seven points on 3-of-10 shooting and eight rebounds in 21 minutes, helped draw three fouls on Yao in the first quarter. Oberto continued to show confidence in his midrange shot, scoring six points in 18 minutes.

Facing O'Neal and Yao on back-to-back nights gave the Spurs' centers a "reality check," Robert Horry said.

"Those two are the biggest guys in the league," Horry said. "If they can get their shots off against those two guys, when they play other centers it should be a little bit easier."

Jackie Butler couldn't duplicate his impressive performance from the previous night, finishing with no points, four rebounds, four fouls and four turnovers in 16 minutes. Yao threw down a vicious dunk on Butler's head and also spun by him for another basket.

Horry said he wouldn't be surprised to see Popovich change the fifth starter from game to game depending on matchups.

"Until one of those guys steps up and establishes themselves in that role, you'll probably see (Michael Finley) there, me there, Fabricio there, Francisco there," Horry said. "We're probably going to have more lineup changes this season than ever."

Van Gundy can only hope: After hearing the Spurs didn't bring their four regular starters, Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy had one request.

"I just hope Pop does the same thing Nov. 14," Van Gundy said of the Spurs' first regular-season visit to Houston. "We'll be good then."

Van Gundy said he didn't have any problem with the Spurs resting their regulars.

"Every coach has to do it his own way in preseason," he said. Popovich "is doing what he thinks is best playing back-to-back.

"They play so well together they can just skip the preseason."

Popovich likes the Spurs' preseason schedule this season because it has afforded the team four stretches of at least four days without exhibition games. After their final preseason game Friday against Dallas, the Spurs will have another five days off before opening the season Nov. 2 against the Mavericks.

The Spurs have seven exhibition games this season, two fewer than last year. After six, Popovich said, it "starts to get real old."

"Coaches like practice," Popovich said. "We wish we had 30 days of practice. Jeff and I would probably come back and forth and scrimmage each other with our teams and say we're going to press today or we're going to zone today, we're going to double-team all the pick and rolls.

"And probably get a lot done. But that's not realistic in the world with the way everything works."

Udrih dresses for game: Beno Udrih was in uniform for the first time this preseason. He said he could have played, but the coaches want him to practice first.

Sidelined since the start of training camp because of a sore right hamstring, Udrih cleared the team's fitness test and is expected to participate in his first contact workout Tuesday.

Eric Williams played for the first time since the team's preseason opener. He made only one of six shots and had two points, three assists and two rebounds in 27 minutes.

Williams, who had been sidelined with a bruised right Achilles' tendon, also clearly needs to get in better shape.

"We played him to get him some minutes and see how he recovers from that," Popovich said. "We've got a good week in practice, so that will give him a much better idea of where he's at.

[gospursgojas]

"Or should we just pick a guy, somebody we feel might be best for the club in the long run, throw him into the fire like Tony Parker when he was 19, and help him grow?

Sounds like he's talking about Butler.... Maybe he knows that he's the best choice, just doesn't know if he is ready

[Kori Ellis]

"Should we just experiment?" Popovich said. "Or should we just pick a guy, somebody we feel might be best for the club in the long run, throw him into the fire like Tony Parker when he was 19, and help him grow?

"Or should we go the more steady route, and as the season goes on see if we want to change it?"



Horry said he wouldn't be surprised to see Popovich change the fifth starter from game to game depending on matchups.

"Until one of those guys steps up and establishes themselves in that role, you'll probably see (Michael Finley) there, me there, Fabricio there, Francisco there," Horry said. "We're probably going to have more lineup changes this season than ever."

It will be interesting to see what happens. I don't thing Pop will do what he's hinting to do in the first quote -- play Butler -- that would be too risky. I also don't think he'll have a rotating center spot. I think he's going to pick someone and ride him til someone else improves. Who knows though. It's very interesting.

[timvp]

"Should we just experiment?" Popovich said. "Or should we just pick a guy, somebody we feel might be best for the club in the long run, throw him into the fire like Tony Parker when he was 19, and help him grow?

"Or should we go the more steady route, and as the season goes on see if we want to change it?"

Come on Pop ... start Jackie Butler http://www.dozleng.com/updates/style_emoticons/default/PRAY.GIF

He's the best option for now and the future. If you start him now, he'll be ready to produce in the playoffs. Sure you can go with Oberto or Elson and get a placeholder for the time being ... or you can start the best option.

It's on you now, Pop.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Can anyone tell me who #1 is?

[Kori Ellis]

Can anyone tell me who #1 is?
Jersey number?
Jamar Smith.

[Solid D]

Pop is so matchups oriented, I would be surprised to see him have only one, set guy in the post next to Timmy....that is, with the options he has to work with this year.

The Spurs seem to have better ball movement with Fabio in there. He's not a guy you can jump center with but jump balls only happen once or twice per game. Oberto may end up earning the most minutes if he continues to knock down the elbow jumper. The threat of that shot changes everything.

If Butler wants to get major minutes, he'll need to show better discipline on defense, tidy up his game a bit (moving screens and shuffling), rebound better and SCORE. I'd love to see how Jackie performs against Dallas and Phoenix. I think he can put some hurt on them but that remains to be seen.

Elson is the least productive with his minutes of the three Centers. That will need to change if Francisco is to become Pop's default choice alongside Duncan. Oberto is most likely the "default" choice right now.

[Doug Collins]

Sounds like he's talking about Butler.... Maybe he knows that he's the best choice, just doesn't know if he is ready


Did you watch the game? Butler played like garbage. I love his potential and what he represents, but for now it's gonna be between Elson and Oberto. Personally, I was pleasantly surprised by Elson's play last night. I went to the game and he's not bad, of course he's not the defensive presence we're looking for either. Oberto played well too and he actually hit a couple mid-range jumpshots which surprised me. I look to see Elson starting at the beginning of the season like a lot of the posters here seem to think. Butler will get some minutes as the season progresses and depending on how he does I think Pop will adjust that accordingly. Jackie just seemed to be forcing too many things on offense and then was getting beat consistently on D.

[ploto]

Pop has his own inclinations but he always listens to and considers the input of the entire coaching staff. It was some of them who were so sure that moving Nazr into the starting line-up in February would be necessary as he would be needed in the playoffs against the teams the Spurs expected to play- see how that turned out.

Pop loves Oberto and he has wanted to give him the chance, but does he want another season of trying someone new at the All-Star break and going into the playoffs without any of them in a good rhythm. I do agree, though, that the Manu from the bench experiment is to look at the idea of Oberto off the bench with Manu.

I also think there is some pressure- so to speak- to justify the signing of Elson and give him minutes. Plus, the whole point was smaller, quicker line-ups and that is what Elson is for.

Butler has the most potential, but is he really best paired with Duncan- or when Duncan comes out of the game?

What I expect: Musical chairs, and I hate the musical chairs. Pick someone and give him the opportunity to perform without pulling hm every time he makes a mistake because you have a cast of others sitting on the bench.

[ploto]

"You'll probably see (Michael Finley) there, me there, Fabricio there, Francisco there," Horry said. "We're probably going to have more lineup changes this season than ever."
I noticed no one mentioned this-- Michael Finley is the first name Rob mentioned. Small ball here we come! Does the v-bookie include a bet for Finley at center on opening night? :lol



Oberto played well too and he actually hit a couple mid-range jumpshots which surprised me.
He worked a lot with Chip last year because the Spurs want a big man who can hit a mid-range jump shot in there with Duncan.

[Solid D]

He worked a lot with Chip last year because the Spurs want a big man who can hit a mid-range jump shot in there with Duncan.

Or without Duncan. Pick and Rolls are fine but with the Big as an outside threat, the Pick and Pop changes the way the defense is played.

[BERSERK]

Pop should just put Butler in the startling line-up. As long as bigger starting centers are out there, why should Pop sacrifice size for speed. It's like the playoffs all over again. Small ball don't mean jack!

Butler should play period! Don't get me wrong, Oberto can contribute but I still doubt he'll make an effect against the Shaqs, Yaos, and Dampiers. Butler, at least, can bang against the bigger centers with no problem.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Jersey number?
Jamar Smith.


He look pretty good from what I saw. He seems to fit the mold of the long 3.. Any chance the guy makes the roster? Is he younger than 35?

[ploto]

Or without Duncan. Pick and Rolls are fine but with the Big as an outside threat, the Pick and Pop changes the way the defense is played.
True- I always wanted to see more Pick and Pop with Rasho- which was part of the reason I supported playing him without Duncan.

I still like Oberto as the choice- I predicted it the day Rasho got traded.

[Solid D]

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/tdog231x/motivator122475-1.jpg

http://www.orlyowl.com/orly4.jpg

[BERSERK]

True- I always wanted to see more Pick and Pop with Rasho- which was part of the reason I supported playing him without Duncan.

I still like Oberto as the choice- I predicted it the day Rasho got traded.

Running the pick n roll usually is a good offense when Duncan and Parker are playing it. Not with Rasho nor Oberto. Both were too slow to run the offense (and defend it too)!

[BERSERK]

http://www.orlyowl.com/orly4.jpg

What is that supposed to mean? :blah

[ploto]

Not with Rasho nor Oberto. Both were too slow to run the offense (and defend it too)!
Not that it matters now- but Rasho was the best big the Spurs had last season at guarding the pick and roll- slow and all.

[BERSERK]

Not that it matters now- but Rasho was the best big the Spurs had last season at guarding the pick and roll- slow and all.

Best big? Yeah that's why he was good enough to be traded. :wakeup

[Solid D]

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/tdog231x/motivator122475-1.jpg


What is that supposed to mean? :blah

"Ability, realize right now that you will never be this good."

Ability and good are used loosely.

[BERSERK]

"Ability, realize right now that you will never be this good."

Ability and good are used loosely.

That is why I like this pic. It sends the cocky but feel good message of it. Hey when you're the champ, it feels great.

I bet anyone didn't know Ultimo Dragon (wrestler) had ten championship belts (let alone who is Ultimo Dragon).

[angel_luv]

Udrih dresses for game: Beno Udrih was in uniform for the first time this preseason. He said he could have played, but the coaches want him to practice first.

Sidelined since the start of training camp because of a sore right hamstring, Udrih cleared the team's fitness test and is expected to participate in his first contact workout Tuesday.

Good. Time for Beno to show what he can do.

[ChumpDumper]

Butler, at least, can bang against the bigger centers with no problem.If you heard or saw the game, you'd know he had a problem.

[LilMissSPURfect]

Good. Time for Beno to show what he can do.


can he eat :spam:
can he :cheer

i know he can :danceclub and take the honeys on a ride with his :convertib

he can show pop how to peel a :sequ

i think he loves :fishing

sometimes i think he just hangs around to :downspin:

oh i know he'll just :smchode:

he can :baby suck


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sorry just bored as heck!! Is it November yet..... :wakeup

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Good. Time for Beno to show what he can do.

I think he's already established that at this point.

[Kori Ellis]

He look pretty good from what I saw. He seems to fit the mold of the long 3.. Any chance the guy makes the roster? Is he younger than 35?

He's a power forward who is a littlle small. I think they are looking at him to play that long 3/athletic 4 type of role. He's 25:)

It's down to him, Charles Lee and Melvin Sanders for the possible last spot. I don't know if they are leaning toward keeping him.

[fred33]

hey kori for info did you see eva at saturday game?

[Kori Ellis]

Did you watch the game? Butler played like garbage. I love his potential and what he represents, but for now it's gonna be between Elson and Oberto. Personally, I was pleasantly surprised by Elson's play last night. I went to the game and he's not bad, of course he's not the defensive presence we're looking for either. Oberto played well too and he actually hit a couple mid-range jumpshots which surprised me. I look to see Elson starting at the beginning of the season like a lot of the posters here seem to think. Butler will get some minutes as the season progresses and depending on how he does I think Pop will adjust that accordingly. Jackie just seemed to be forcing too many things on offense and then was getting beat consistently on D.

Butler sucked last night but he played better than Elson/Oberto in the other preseason games. I don't think you should judge him just by last night's game.

I think Pop is considering throwing Butler into the fire but I don't think he'll do it. Too risky and his development might be served best in a more limited role to start the season.

[Kori Ellis]

hey kori for info did you see eva at saturday game?

Yes.

[fred33]

BECAUSE THERE ARE RUMORS she's dating lance armstrong

[Kori Ellis]

BECAUSE THERE ARE RUMORS she's dating lance armstrong

:lmao

She's been at a few of the games so far. Anyway, let's keep this thread to talking about the Spurs on the court.

[fred33]

but she was at the arena saturdaY?

[Kori Ellis]

but she was at the arena saturdaY? Yes.

[Ocotillo]

but she was at the arena saturdaY?

any chance she'll wrest the back up point guard role from Beno?

[timvp]

Butler got dominated by Yao but at this stage of each of their careers, that's to be expected. In Butler's defense, he was getting no weak side help and no double teams. Elson and Oberto played him a little better, but then again those guys have gone up against Yao dozens of times.

Judging by the whole preseason, Oberto is probably the best choice as of this second. He's smart, he can rebound some and he's happy doing the dirty work. I could see Elson as a stop gap option because he runs the court well and that could get him a couple easy buckets.

But long term, it's not even close that Butler is the best option. He can really score the ball around the basket. He has good instincts. He still needs to work on his defense and his team play overall, but this is a guy that if you give him 28-30 minutes a game, he could get you 10 points and 8 boards pretty easily.

You'd still go with a player like Horry down the stretch of big games to spread the floor. But the best thing for the future of this franchise is to start Butler.

This decision is a lot like when Pop put Tony Parker and Stephen Jackson in the starting lineups. Parker had some bad games in that preseason and early in the year, but it was obvious that he had the most potential of any point guard on the roster. Stephen Jackson was HORRIBLE in preseason and was bad early on but Pop went with him over the "safer" choice of Steve Smith. Without making that change, the Spurs don't win the championship.

Now comes another time that Pop needs to forget about playing it safe. Moves like those have made him a Hall of Fame coach. Let's see if he has one more in him.

:smokin

[Mr. Body]

The problem with starting Butler at this point is the fouls. Starting an unseasoned guard or wing is one thing - they'll get killed on defense from time to time - but an unseasoned big will pick up lots of fouls, due to the physical nature of interior play. Can we afford to stack up the bonus early in each quarter?

I'd also like to start Butler sooner than later, if just because Duncan can erase a lot of mistakes, but at least not until the New Year. Oberto can do fine until then. But I'd like 30-40 games as a starter for Butler before the playoffs come.

And when is Elson's ability to run the floor such a great boon? When did we ever need bigs to run the floor? So he gets 2-6 ppg running the floor. Is that so valuable in and of itself?

[T Park]

And when is Elson's ability to run the floor such a great boon? When did we ever need bigs to run the floor? So he gets 2-6 ppg running the floor. Is that so valuable in and of itself?

When do we need bigs to run the floor?

Dallas? Phoenix? Alot of the rest of the NBA?

Thats the way the game is heading, adjust accordingly.

[Mr. Body]

We don't need a big who can offensively run the floor. On defensive transition, that helps. Most helpful would be a big who can rotate quickly on defense in half-court sets.

What irks about Elson is this is the only thing exceptional about him. The only thing good people can come up with about him is that he can get easy baskets in transition, just about the last thing on the list we need a big man to excel at.

[ploto]

Unless he could guard Dirk or Amare- I don't get it either. I still don't see how he will any more useful than Nazr against those teams and he will surely be less useful than Rasho against teams with a traditional center.

My prediction-- Elson will be the next big man the Spurs get rid of for not being able to do something that everyone knew he couldn't do in the first place- too bad he bought a house and all.

[leemajors]

Unless he could guard Dirk or Amare- I don't get it either. I still don't see how he will any more useful than Nazr against those teams and he will surely be less useful than Rasho against teams with a traditional center.

My prediction-- Elson will be the next big man the Spurs get rid of for not being able to do something that everyone knew he couldn't do in the first place- too bad he bought a house and all.

it will be bearable with his price tag - he's making signifigantly less than the two jettisoned.

[ChumpDumper]

No shit. I was heartened when Elson got Yao into foul trouble early. If he can do that with any consistency, that's worth $3 million.

The best thing any team can do against Houston is make Yao run -- since that's the only thing Elson really does, we should do that while he's out there.