Once again... the most overrated player in the NFL

[MajorMike]

is non other than Roy Williams. All hit and no cover. Nice coverage on Shockey. Way to run over the ref. Way hit Jacobs at the line for no gain and let him carry you 5 yards for a critical 1st down late in the game (ala Bo Jackson on the Boz). Also see the coverage that led to the Eagles' 50 yarder, the 2 TDs against Moss last yearto let the Skins beat them,

Its a good thing he can hit a WR after he catches, because he sure can't stop him from catching it. Even Cowboy fans agree:

You're going to blame the rookie Watkins for a corner blitz called at the wrong time. What did you expect him to do. That is a high risk play and only works when you actually get pressure on the quarterback. As for ROY don't get me started on the most OVER-RATED defensive player in the NFL. He is supposed to be the leader of this defense and he just let LJ Smith run right on by like he was jogging through the park. I'm surprised L.J didn't wave as he passed him. Another thing don't give me that crap that the defense was confused, when a tight end runs straight up the field who else is going to cover him. There is no excuse and I think we made a big mistake with that contract of his. He will always look for the big hit first and cover second. Sure he will have one or two spectacular tackles a game but how many times is he caught looking in the backfield when he should be paying attention to his assignment. Now go ahead, defend him and give him the PASS he always gets from the fans and the media and vote him to the Pro Bowl.


saying that roy williams is the best safety in the league is really stretching it. The guy cannot cover. He made one play in college, against TEXAS, and he has been living off that ever since. By chance, any one see the play polamalu made in the playoffs where he was blocked , and still made the play. Roy Williams isn't in Polamalu or Reed's class. Dawkins is a step below them, then Sean Taylor and maybe Williams. He is not even the best Roy Williams in the NFL. I would take Huff from Oakland right now over Roy Williams (S from Dallas)

CBS Sportsline:

So who's the league's most overrated? There are a lot of name players to choose from, but the winner is Dallas Cowboys safety Roy Williams. He isn't nearly as good as his reputation, which is Lone Star big. Williams played in his third consecutive Pro Bowl after the 2005 season, but he certainly hasn't performed to that level. Williams is a good hitter when in the box, but he struggles in coverage, which is why teams were able to exploit the Cowboys with some big plays last season. Anyone who saw the Cowboys blow that Monday night game to the Redskins saw that Williams can be trouble in coverage. The Redskins twice threw over the top of him for fourth-quarter touchdowns. Sure, he makes those highlight hits. But for every one of those, there's two misses in coverage. That's not good enough.

[johnsmith]

Furthermore, why wasn't there a flag thrown when Roy Williams, the guy they invented the rule for and even included jersey collars into it, tackled Tiki Barber from behind by the neck?

Also, even if he hadn't run into the ref, past evidence would indicate that there is a 99% chance that he wouldn't have broken up the pass anyway.

Roy fucking sucks.

[leemajors]

Furthermore, why wasn't there a flag thrown when Roy Williams, the guy they invented the rule for and even included jersey collars into it, tackled Tiki Barber from behind by the neck?

Also, even if he hadn't run into the ref, past evidence would indicate that there is a 99% chance that he wouldn't have broken up the pass anyway.

Roy fucking sucks.

he may not have deflected the pass, but he could have put a lick on plaxico to jar the ball loose before he touched down. roy williams isn't the greatest pass coverage safety but he's also not the reason the boys lost by any stretch of the imagination.

[samikeyp]

CaptMike...is it because he is a Sooner or a Cowboy....or both? :lol

Roy Williams is not a good one on one cover guy...that is why he is a safety and not a CB and is in no way the best at his position in the NFL. Lee is right though...this loss was not on Williams.

[kskonn]

Furthermore, why wasn't there a flag thrown when Roy Williams, the guy they invented the rule for and even included jersey collars into it, tackled Tiki Barber from behind by the neck?

Also, even if he hadn't run into the ref, past evidence would indicate that there is a 99% chance that he wouldn't have broken up the pass anyway.

Roy fucking sucks.


I don't remember the particular play but if he was not the last defender it is not a horse collar. If you do it at the line or in the middle of a bunch of players I do not believe it is considered a horse collar. I would look it up but I don't have time.

[samikeyp]

Actually I don't think jersey collars are included (don't know for sure..if anyone has a link to the rule would help) but I have seen a few players around the league do the horse collar and not get called. The enforcement of the rule has not been very consistent.

[MajorMike]

CaptMike...is it because he is a Sooner or a Cowboy....or both? :lol

Not a factor, but both.

[samikeyp]

Its all in fun brah...that is why I had the :lol there!

If I can ask, who is your team?

[MajorMike]

I am a fan, rain or shine. See below.


Ooops didn't show. See 1st post.

[samikeyp]

My bad...should have looked at the flags....been a tough season for you I bet. Its easy for people to be fans when a team is winning...takes a real fan to stick with it when times are tough. Props to you.

[johnsmith]

Actually I don't think jersey collars are included (don't know for sure..if anyone has a link to the rule would help) but I have seen a few players around the league do the horse collar and not get called. The enforcement of the rule has not been very consistent.


They included jersey collars at the beginning of this season.

[johnsmith]

I don't remember the particular play but if he was not the last defender it is not a horse collar. If you do it at the line or in the middle of a bunch of players I do not believe it is considered a horse collar. I would look it up but I don't have time.

I'm looking this one up.

[johnsmith]

The ban states that a horse-collar tackle is an open-field tackle in which a defender uses the shoulder pads to immediately bring a ballcarrier down. The term "open field" means that horse-collar tackles committed near the line of scrimmage will be allowed; in addition, the stipulation of "immediately bringing the ballcarrier down" means that, if a defender begins to bring a player down by the shoulder pads but lets go before the tackle is completed, he will not be penalized.

I know that jersey collars were added just prior to the season as well. As for the tackle in question, it was a good five to seven yards downfield, however, my blinding hatred of the Cowboys could be changing my memory.

[King]

He didn't use it to bring them down. He grabs it, and then grabs their legs. In years past, he would grab the collar and hang from it. That's what was banned. Not merely grabbing the collar.

[johnsmith]

He didn't use it to bring them down. He grabs it, and then grabs their legs. In years past, he would grab the collar and hang from it. That's what was banned. Not merely grabbing the collar.


You know, you are right, now that I'm thinking about it, I did notice it even at the time that he used his other hand to trip up Tiki.

However, that was still after he pulled backwards on the collar...........alright, I'm reaching now.

[ducks]

I thought it was john the great elway

[samikeyp]

johnsmith....I am guessing you are a Broncos fan?

[NorCal510]

roy willaims went to my high school

[TheTruth]

I thought it was john the great elway
I think that you have reached the highest of retarted heights with this one. John Elway is the single greatest quarterback to every put on a pair of hightops. John Elway owns you, your mom, your mom's mom, and your grandma too. Learn to respect those that have achieved the ultimate levels of awesomeness. JOHN ELWAY = THE GREATEST QUARTERBACK TO HAVE EVERY PLAYED!!!

No contest.

[leemajors]

I think that you have reached the highest of retarted heights with this one. John Elway is the single greatest quarterback to every put on a pair of hightops. John Elway owns you, your mom, your mom's mom, and your grandma too. Learn to respect those that have achieved the ultimate levels of awesomeness. JOHN ELWAY = THE GREATEST QUARTERBACK TO HAVE EVERY PLAYED!!!

No contest.

replace Elway with Joe Montana and more people would agree. i like Elway a lot, but Montana was perfect in super bowls. it's a toss up between the two imo, slight edge to montana. elway had more talent though.

[scott]

Replace Elway/Montana with Romo and you'll have my vote.

PS: Romo > Montana > Brady > Elway

[ducks]

I lived 4 hours away from denver
announcers would say he could never get sacked because he was so good
then when he did it was never his fault


I do not think he is overrated unless someone says john elway is the best ever
I said what I did to get a reactionout of johnsmith

[Obstructed_View]

I'll take Roy on my team any day. Glad he's already on my team.

[johnsmith]

I lived 4 hours away from denver
announcers would say he could never get sacked because he was so good
then when he did it was never his fault


I do not think he is overrated unless someone says john elway is the best ever
I said what I did to get a reactionout of johnsmith

:lol
Ducks already learned long ago how to get under my skin. Just say something about John Elway, anything, it doesn't matter, because if it's not "John Elway is the greatest quarterback ever", then it makes me mad.

Good for you Ducks.

[johnsmith]

I'll take Roy on my team any day. Glad he's already on my team.


I'm glad he's on your team as well, guy gives up easy touchdown after easy touchdown.

Here's a question for you, how come for three seasons in a row I've heard the argument mid-season from Cowboys fans, "they could easily be undefeated right now"...........if it's so easy, why aren't they? Ever?

[MajorMike]

I'll take Roy on my team any day. Glad he's already on my team.


I bet you were real glad last year against the Skins.

[samikeyp]

Here's a question for you, how come for three seasons in a row I've heard the argument mid-season from Cowboys fans, "they could easily be undefeated right now"...........if it's so easy, why aren't they? Ever?

You should stay away from those who smoke weed.

Sadly, you will find "woulda, coulda, shoulda's" on every team...best to ignore them and talk to those who are grounded in reality.

[johnsmith]

You should stay away from those who smoke weed.

Sadly, you will find "woulda, coulda, shoulda's" on every team...best to ignore them and talk to those who are grounded in reality.


Yeah, but these are people calling in on nationally syndicated radio talk shows.

[samikeyp]

well then they are fools.

I am as big of a Cowboy fan as you will find and I never drop the "well, if we woulda done this..blah, blah, blah" card. The fans I hang out with are the same....guess we are the sane ones. :)

johnsmith....I have a question.....I am guessing you are a Broncos fan?

[TheTruth]

Replace Elway/Montana with Romo and you'll have my vote.

PS: Romo > Montana > Brady > Elway
I'm just glad that one person realized that I was overexagerating the greatness that is Mr. John Elway. Though he is top 3 for sure.

[johnsmith]

well then they are fools.

I am as big of a Cowboy fan as you will find and I never drop the "well, if we woulda done this..blah, blah, blah" card. The fans I hang out with are the same....guess we are the sane ones. :)

johnsmith....I have a question.....I am guessing you are a Broncos fan?


Yeah, I love me some Denver Broncos.

Also, I too hate the would of, could of, should of takes.

[johnsmith]

I'm just glad that one person realized that I was overexagerating the greatness that is Mr. John Elway. Though he is top 3 for sure.


TheTruth, what kind of Broncos fan are you? Go say that in the parking lot of Invesco on game day and you'd be labeled a blasphemous fool and shunned from future tailgating.

I never want to hear you say something like that again, for shame, for shame indeed.

[samikeyp]

Yeah, I love me some Denver Broncos.

Cool....now being a Bronco fan, I would get the Charger hate, Chief hate and especially the Raider hate (you must be loving it this year) but why the Cowboy hate? Not dogging you...just curious.


Elway is in my top 3 also.

[johnsmith]

Cool....now being a Bronco fan, I would get the Charger hate, Chief hate and especially the Raider hate (you must be loving it this year) but why the Cowboy hate? Not dogging you...just curious.


Elway is in my top 3 also.


I will address all three of these. Chargers, you'd be surprised in regards to the rivalry between the Chargers and Broncos, there really isn't much of one. SannityAnnex will back me up on this one, these two teams seem to have a respect for eachother that I can't really explain, as do their fans (for the most part). Just good, hard nosed football between these teams, nothing dirty.

Chiefs, I fucking hate the Chiefs, having said that though, it's pretty much a lock that the Chiefs will go 1-1 against the Broncos every season. The home team always seems to win this game, so it takes some of the drama out of the whole deal.

Raiders.........I hate them with every fiber of my being.........plus we fucking own them over the last 10 years, so what do you really say to a poor Raiders fan. This rivalry was much more intense in the 80's and early 90's.

Cowboys, I never liked the Cowboys. Now, I've never had the hatred towards them that I have now and I know exactly why I do, it's because I moved to Texas. You get surrounded by fans of a particular team that you don't really care for in the first place and your hatred grows into passion. Nothing makes me happier then a Sunday in which the Broncos win and the Cowboys lose. Plus, (present company excluded), their fans only know what's going on in "Cowboys world" for the most part, that bothers me.

Having said that, I was talking to a Cowboys fan the other day and he was naming some of the players that were on the team, and it dawned on me, there really isn't anyone on that team that I don't like (except of course for TO), it's the owner. I want to punch Jerry Jones as hard as I can, square in his plastic face. Dude bugs me.

[johnsmith]

Elway is in my top 3 also.


I understand this from a Non-Broncos fan, but I never like to hear a Broncos fan not calling Elway #1.

[samikeyp]

Fair enough....I understand totally. I imagine a similar thing could happen to me later this year being a Spurs fan in the middle of Pistons country...although I do have a healthy respect for that team.


My top 3 QB's:

Otto Graham
John Elway
Dan Marino

[johnsmith]

Fair enough....I understand totally. I imagine a similar thing could happen to me later this year being a Spurs fan in the middle of Pistons country...although I do have a healthy respect for that team.


My top 3 QB's:

Otto Graham
John Elway
Dan Marino


I will say this, I'll be the first to acknowledge when any team is playing well, including the Cowboys.

I never saw Otto Graham play, I wish I was around for old school NFL.

[TheTruth]

I don't get people listing players that they have never seen play. Otto Graham was probably one hell of a QB, but I've never even seen the dude throw a pass. Not saying that Mikey hasn't, so I'm not questioning his rankings.

My top 3...

1. John Elway
2. Smokin Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning

[johnsmith]

I don't get people listing players that they have never seen play. Otto Graham was probably one hell of a QB, but I've never even seen the dude throw a pass. Not saying that Mikey hasn't, so I'm not questioning his rankings.

My top 3...

1. John Elway
2. Smokin Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning


Manning number 3, wow. I don't think I've ever seen anyone put him up there that high, but now that I'm thinking about it, you could make that argument.

Personally, I have to go with Marino at number 3..........that's just me though.

I think 1 & 2 can be argued, but you can't replace the players name in that argument, it's either Elway or Montana. With me leaning towards Elway obviously.

[samikeyp]

I will say this, I'll be the first to acknowledge when any team is playing well, including the Cowboys.

As will I.

I didn't see Otto Graham play (geez Truth...how old do you think I am! :lol) but I based that on 10 years, 10 title appearances, 7 titles...that is crazy. When the Browns merged into the NFL, their first game was against the two time defending champion Eagles (shows you how long ago THAT was :) ) and it was scheduled that way on purpose...Browns won that game 35-10.

I put Elway ahead of Marino because I believe championships do matter. That doesn't say I think Marino sucks and he had better stats but Elway had comparable stats and two titles.

[samikeyp]

For me, right now, that is too high for Peyton....I do think though if he continues his career they way its going, it very well could happen.

[TheTruth]

I know that Peyton has choked every season that he's been in the playoffs, but I probably won't see a QB run an offense the way that he does. Name another quarterback that calls every play they run. The dude is amazing. Elway hadn't one anything his first decade in the league. I'm giving Peyton the benefit of the doubt right now. He'll win some superbowls. He's too good not to.

[johnsmith]

As will I.

I didn't see Otto Graham play (geez Truth...how old do you think I am! :lol) but I based that on 10 years, 10 title appearances, 7 titles...that is crazy. When the Browns merged into the NFL, their first game was against the two time defending champion Eagles (shows you how long ago THAT was :) ) and it was scheduled that way on purpose...Browns won that game 35-10.

I put Elway ahead of Marino because I believe championships do matter. That doesn't say I think Marino sucks and he had better stats but Elway had comparable stats and two titles.


Plus, Elway is the most sacked quarterback of all time. Anyone who saw him play knows that it wasn't because he wasn't mobile, in fact, he was an outstanding scrambler that improvised all the damn time (enough to nearly give me a heart attack every fucking Sunday), but it was because his offensive line was always piss poor and his receivers had trouble getting open for much of his career. Elway was a one man show for a majority of his career.

Now no one come out and say that it wasn't until Elway got talent around him that he won the super bowl because well, no shit. No one can win a Superbowl on their own.

[samikeyp]

Elway was a one man show for a majority of his career.

and still went to three SB's.

[johnsmith]

and still went to three SB's.


Yep, five super bowls in a 15 year career. That's not bad to play 1/3 of your career on championship teams.

[Obstructed_View]

I bet you were real glad last year against the Skins.
I was glad that he was there to make the sack and the forced fumble in that game. I guess you would have cut him or traded him, so Brandon Jacobs would have scored for the Giants at the end of regulation and the Cowboys would have lost that game, too. He also wouldn't have been there to make the interception against the Seahawks, the red zone forced fumble against the Broncos, and the game winning touchdown against the Eagles.

The only thing stupider than a Cowboys fan bitching about their pro bowl safety is non Cowboys fans doing it.

[MajorMike]

They pay him to be a DB, not an LB.

[Melmart1]

Funny I thought they paid him to be a safety?

[johnsmith]

Funny I thought they paid him to be a safety?


A DB is a safety. Come on now, get your shit straight then run smack in the NFL forum.

[johnsmith]

The only thing stupider than a Cowboys fan bitching about their pro bowl safety is non Cowboys fans doing it.


What non Cowboy fan is bitching? We couldn't be happier that you have a worthless cover man playing center field for your team..........GO ROY WILLIAMS.

[Obstructed_View]

If they paid him to be second on the team in tackles, first in forced fumbles, third in interceptions, third in passes defensed, and fourth in sacks, he'd probably be a sort of decent player. But they pay him to be a DB apparently so all the other stuff I mentioned only matters to pro bowl voters and the win-loss record.

[Obstructed_View]

What non Cowboy fan is bitching? We couldn't be happier that you have a worthless cover man playing center field for your team..........GO ROY WILLIAMS.Yeah, I'm sure you were saying that on thanksgiving last year. :rolleyes

[johnsmith]

Yeah, I'm sure you were saying that on thanksgiving last year. :rolleyes


I only remember one thing from that game............the final score.

[johnsmith]

If they paid him to be second on the team in tackles, first in forced fumbles, third in interceptions, third in passes defensed, and fourth in sacks, he'd probably be a sort of decent player. But they pay him to be a DB apparently so all the other stuff I mentioned only matters to pro bowl voters and the win-loss record.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pro bowl's are over rated......................and, there win-loss record, let's see.........
Dallas Cowboys record since Roy Williams rookie year..............wait for it...........33-37.

Quite an impact.

[johnsmith]

33 and 37.


Oh man, can't get over that one.

[samikeyp]

If Roy was the only factor in that record...that would be one thing. That is a product of team incompetence.

[samikeyp]

I only remember one thing from that game............the final score.

I will give you that one......the "Ryan Leaf" game I give your team no credit for. :lmao

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Roy's problem is that he can't cover anybody. Other than that, he's a good safety.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

BTW, the most overrated player is Vick.

[johnsmith]

If Roy was the only factor in that record...that would be one thing. That is a product of team incompetence.


I agree, but the guy I was arguing with was implying that the win/loss record was/is a direct result of Roy Williams playing for the Cowboys.

[johnsmith]

I will give you that one......the "Ryan Leaf" game I give your team no credit for. :lmao


Refresh my memory, I tend to block things like this out and I'm having difficulty recalling this..........plus that was during college so there was a good chance I was drunk.

[johnsmith]

BTW, the most overrated player is Vick.


I agree, he's highly overrated.........now someone will point out how they only win when Vick is playing.........then I point out that the Broncos win a lot with Plummer, and is he a good quarterback? (No need to answer that by the way).

[samikeyp]

john...it was the turkey day game 2001 when Leaf QB'ed the Cowboys and lost by 2 to Denver.

[ShoogarBear]

Otto Graham was a good QB, but was more a product of Paul Brown's system, which was about 10 years ahead of the rest of pro football. No way is he in the top 3.

(No I never saw him play, either.)

I did see Johnny Unitas, but only towards the end of his career. A lot of knowledgable people will still tell you he is the best to ever play. My sense is that those of us who got to see Montana at his peak experienced the same thing as those who saw Johnny U in his prime.

I would go: Unitas, Montana, Elway. The order could be argued.

[samikeyp]

I could agree with Unitas. I totally forgot about him. I would put him, Graham and Elway ahead of Montana. The order, as shoog said...could be argued.

[johnsmith]

john...it was the turkey day game 2001 when Leaf QB'ed the Cowboys and lost by 2 to Denver.


Yep, I was drunk.

Although the Broncos had a few good seasons with Griese, it's still something I try to block out of my head.

[samikeyp]

It was a Bronco win over Dallas....I wouldn't think there would be enough alcohol to make you forget that! :)

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

http://www.iphotocentral.com/Photos/martingordon_Images/Full/2240.jpg

One of my favorite NFL pics

[ShoogarBear]

Y. A. Tittle.

I think that photo may have won a Pulitzer.

Probably the least remembered two-time MVP/Hall of Famer.

[Trainwreck2100]

Y. A. Tittle.

I think that photo may have won a Pulitzer.

Probably the least remembered two-time MVP/Hall of Famer.


It didn't, I was wastching ESPN's outside the lines one day and they were talking about this picture how back then Sports photography wasn't respected.

[TheTruth]

The only reason I put John Elway ahead of Joe Montana is Dan Reeves. His offense for years held John and the Broncos offense back. When paired with a real offensive mind (and a hall of fame caliber RB) Mr. Elway had one of the great 5 year stretches in NFL history. Give Elway 10 years with Shanny and Mr. Elway has more rings the Montana (who had Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Walsh etc etc).

[Obstructed_View]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pro bowl's are over rated......................and, there win-loss record, let's see.........
Dallas Cowboys record since Roy Williams rookie year..............wait for it...........33-37.

Quite an impact.
Wow. Picking one thing out of the seven I mentioned to refute. What an argument. So a pro bowl player on a losing team automatically sucks. I'll keep that in mind.

[johnsmith]

Wow. Picking one thing out of the seven I mentioned to refute. What an argument. So a pro bowl player on a losing team automatically sucks. I'll keep that in mind.


Hey, I can't refute statistics, but you plainly said that Roy Williams matters when it comes to the win-loss column, and clearly, he doesn't matter all that much.

So you're a retard, I'll keep that in mind.

[samikeyp]

Give Elway 10 years with Shanny and Mr. Elway has more rings the Montana (who had Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Walsh etc etc).


I could see that.

Too bad Al Davis could never see that.

[ShoogarBear]

The only reason I put John Elway ahead of Joe Montana is Dan Reeves. His offense for years held John and the Broncos offense back. When paired with a real offensive mind (and a hall of fame caliber RB) Mr. Elway had one of the great 5 year stretches in NFL history. Give Elway 10 years with Shanny and Mr. Elway has more rings the Montana (who had Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Walsh etc etc).I'll mostly agree with you on this. The Broncos' offense under Reeves was a couple of line plunges, followed by Elway scrambling to buy time so he could fire a 60 yard pass crossfield off the wrong foot.

On the other hand, I can't penalize Montana just because he played on a good team, because lots of QBs played on good times but never came through when it counted (see Manning, Peyton). So while it's true that Montana would never have been able to take the Broncos as far as Elway did, it's not necessarily true that the Niners would have won as many times with Elway as they did with Montana.

[johnsmith]

I'll mostly agree with you on this. The Broncos' offense under Reeves was a couple of line plunges, followed by Elway scrambling to buy time so he could fire a 60 yard pass crossfield off the wrong foot.

On the other hand, I can't penalize Montana just because he played on a good team, because lots of QBs played on good times but never came through when it counted (see Manning, Peyton). So while it's true that Montana would never have been able to take the Broncos as far as Elway did, it's not necessarily true that the Niners would have won as many times with Elway as they did with Montana.


See, I totally agree with this, you can't penalize Montana. I still think Elway is the best qb of all time, but you CANNOT blame Montana for the team he was on. Plus, that's what makes the great ones great, surround them with talent and they win super bowls (see Broncos 1997-1999).

[samikeyp]

Well said....although apparently Capt.Mike can. :)

[MajorMike]

Plus, that's what makes the great ones great, surround them with talent and they win super bowls (see Broncos 1997-1999).

Actually... that's exactly what I am saying.

Emmitt Smith behind Barry Sanders' O-Line does not get Barry Sanders' numbers.

Barry Sanders behind Emmitt's O-Line and Barry gets multiple 2,000 yard seasons instead of just one.

[samikeyp]

so then you can penalize a player for being on a good team.

there is no proof that Emmitt Smith could not have got the same numbers behind a different line. opinions, yes but no facts.

[ShoogarBear]

Well, you might say that if a good running back goes to a worse team he might get more carries, but it's hard to argue that in Emmitt's case.

It's also hard to imagine that he would have gotten more yards with a worse offensive line (and a worse defense supporting him).

So in Emmitt's case, he was a workhorse on a good team, I could see that his stats would get worse.

Aikman, on the other hand, would probably have been forced to pass more on a worse team, so maybe his yards, TDs, etc might have been more.

I think we can all agree that guys like Sanders, Payton (pre-Ditka), and Gale Sayers were freaking amazing in that they were able to do what they did with the Little Sisters of the Poor blocking for them.

[samikeyp]

I think we can all agree that guys like Sanders, Payton (pre-Ditka), and Gale Sayers were freaking amazing in that they were able to do what they did with the Little Sisters of the Poor blocking for them.

Definetly....not to mention Jim Brown....I am not sure he even needed a line in front of him.

I would have liked to see what Sayers could have done with a full career....we might not even be having this discussion.

[johnsmith]

Does Terrell Davis deserve to get in the hall of fame? I could go either way on this argument............much like ObstructedView could go both ways in his sexuality.

[samikeyp]

Good question...I would like to see the other Bronco fans weigh in on this.

[ShoogarBear]

Not a Bronco fan, but . . .

I wouldn't necessarily hold Terrell's lack of longevity against him, however, I think Terrell's argument is weakened by the fact that just about every other back who came through Denver after him gained a shitload of yards. So he was clearly good, but it's unclear if he was really better than everyone else.

[johnsmith]

Not a Bronco fan, but . . .

I wouldn't necessarily hold Terrell's lack of longevity against him, however, I think Terrell's argument is weakened by the fact that just about every other back who came through Denver after him gained a shitload of yards. So he was clearly good, but it's unclear if he was really better than everyone else.


Trust me, he was much better then all of them, even Clinton Portis........having said that, you are absolutely correct.

[samikeyp]

He was fun to watch. Sucks how his career ended.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Does Terrell Davis deserve to get in the hall of fame? I could go either way on this argument............much like ObstructedView could go both ways in his sexuality.


Nope, not a chance. Two really good/great years does not make a HOFer. Unless, of course, you think Kurt Warner is HOF material...

[ShoogarBear]

Terrell led the AFC in rushing three straight years, and the NFL in one.

I wouldn't be upset if he got in, but it would have been "better" if Denver's running game had really suffered without him.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Christian Okoye.

[ShoogarBear]

Actually, Priest Holmes would be a better comparison.

[johnsmith]

Or Gale Sayers.

[Obstructed_View]

Hey, I can't refute statistics, but you plainly said that Roy Williams matters when it comes to the win-loss column, and clearly, he doesn't matter all that much.

So you're a retard, I'll keep that in mind.
So getting game winning touchdowns, fumble recoveries and interceptions doesn't count in his favor, but not making a play to stop a touchdown counts against him. Good logic. Fortunately Steve Atwater had TD or he'd be as big a loser as Williams.

[ShoogarBear]

I put Sayers on a pedestal. His line sucked, his QB sucked, his receivers sucked, his defense sucked except for Butkus.

And oh, by the way, he holds the NFL record for lifetime kick return average.

[johnsmith]

So getting game winning touchdowns, fumble recoveries and interceptions doesn't count in his favor, but not making a play to stop a touchdown counts against him. Good logic. Fortunately Steve Atwater had TD or he'd be as big a loser as Williams.


Ummm, Ok, yes, that is fortunate.

[johnsmith]

I put Sayers on a pedestal. His line sucked, his QB sucked, his receivers sucked, his defense sucked except for Butkus.

And oh, by the way, he holds the NFL record for lifetime kick return average.


I know, me too, but it's my only defense on why TD should be in the Hall.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Holmes has better credentials than TD.

[leemajors]

Holmes has better credentials than TD.

td has the jewelry though. that does play a role in the decision a lot of he time.

[ShoogarBear]

Holmes does have one ring with the Ravens, though he was backing up Lewis at the time.

[johnsmith]

Holmes does have one ring with the Ravens, though he was backing up Lewis at the time.


I did not know that.

[MajorMike]

Nice pass interference on a ball that no way in hell would have been caught that led to the equalizer.

[TheTruth]

Roy Williams needs to switch positions already.