Nope we don't need a fence on the border

[BIG IRISH]

We need a flipping wall and a guard every 50 yards.

A Line in the Sand -- Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border,” the just-released report confirms what many have long known.


Last year, in little noticed congressional testimony, FBI director Robert Mueller, Jr. revealed that “individuals from countries with known al Qaeda connections have attempted to enter the United States illegally using alien smuggling rings and assuming Hispanic appearances.”

Digest a new staff report prepared by the House Committee on Homeland Security. It ought to be required reading for every liberal, we need them for our economy dumbsmucks!




Titled, “A Line in the Sand -- Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border,” the just-released report confirms what many have long suspected: our border is a sieve, not a barrier, for radical Islamic terrorists transiting into the United States. The Investigations Subcommittee charges that from September 11, 2001, to the present, hundreds of illegal aliens from countries “such as Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Pakistan,…and Afghanistan” were apprehended crossing into the United States.

But that’s not all the bad news. Investigators also found:

* In June 2006, seven Iraqis were caught in Brownsville, TX;

* In August, an Afghani man was caught crossing the Rio Grande into Texas;

* FBI Director Mueller, Jr. has testified that a Hezbollah cell had been “dismantled” after discovering that the terror organization was smuggling operatives across the U.S. -Mexico border to carry out terror attacks inside the United States

According to the congressional report, “Venezuela is providing support -- including identity documents --that could prove useful to radical Islamic groups…The Venezuelan government has issued thousands of cédulas, the equivalent of Social Security cards, to people from places such as Cuba, Colombia, and Middle Eastern nations that host foreign terrorist organizations.” These documents can be used to obtain Venezuelan passports and American visas, which in turn allow the holder to elude immigration checks and enter the United States.

Let's hear it for the Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez :bang

Read the report for yourself folks.http://www.tancredo.house.gov/irc/Investigaions%20Subcommittee%20report.pdf


Doubters who cannot accept how essential it is to plug the holes in our southern frontier should read this report and wake up :madrun

For those who still have trouble understanding, the concluding lines of Section III on page 32 should suffice: “Given the ever-present threat posed by al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations -- a threat that has been underscored by the recent events in London and the vulnerability of our borders -- the need for immediate action to enforce our borders could not be more apparent.” :bang :bang

[01Snake]

:clap

Get ready to be labeled a racist. :rolleyes

[DFW Spurs]

Where there's a will there's a way. Fence, Wall, etc... They'll get in regardless. Lets spend our money else where like education or more law enforcement officers on the border or more border patrol agents or insert your opinion here...

[Crookshanks]

Where there's a will there's a way. Fence, Wall, etc... They'll get in regardless. Lets spend our money else where like education or more law enforcement officers on the border or more border patrol agents or insert your opinion here...

That's so silly. That's like saying, well, they're going to steal cars and break into houses anyway, so I won't lock them! We have to make it as difficult as possible for them - yea, some will still get in, but many more won't.

[JoeChalupa]

Build it and they will come.

[clambake]

Invest your money in pole vault instructors.

[01Snake]

Why not just start shooting them when they come across? I'm sure the message will come across loud and clear and only cost us a few bucks. :lol

[SA210]

Why not just start shooting them when they come across? I'm sure the message will come across loud and clear and only cost us a few bucks. :lol
Xray, is that you?

[DFW Spurs]

That's so silly. That's like saying, well, they're going to steal cars and break into houses anyway, so I won't lock them! We have to make it as difficult as possible for them - yea, some will still get in, but many more won't.

Silly no, it’s a friggin fence... Your back yard is fenced, but if someone wants to trespass on your property all they have to do is climb it. So how effective is that. Put some barbwire on that sucker and all the illegals need is a pair of fence cutters. I want my tax money back…

BTW who’s going to work the fields for less than minimum wage? Not you or I. If illegal aliens want to contribute to our country, I’m all for it. After all this country was founded on immigration.

[Extra Stout]

Never mind.

[01Snake]

If illegal aliens want to mooch off our country, I’m all for it.

[clambake]

What would that North Korean guy do?

[DFW Spurs]

Americans mooch off of America also...

[Nbadan]

Meanwhile, employers in the U.S. are complaining that crops are rotting in the fields because there aren't enough agricultural workers to do all the work. The drug problem along the Southwest border is a different issue altogether that deserves it's own thread. Hezbollah and other M.E. agents crossing over the U.S. southwest border and it hasn't been politically exploited by Trancredo and the other Republican vultures? Don't bet on it.

[01Snake]

Americans mooch off of America also...

So its a free-for-all then? Its bad enough we have to support our own. Do I really need to help support the fucking millions that are here illegally?

[Nbadan]

Over the last two decades illegal aliens have made contributions totaling into the billions in a Social Security system in which they will never see a penny in return. Every study I've seen proves that immigrants contribute more to the GDP of the nation that they take away. Immigrants help keep wages low, not only in Agriculture, by in retail, manufacturing and the all important home construction industry.

[BIG IRISH]

Meanwhile, employers in the U.S. are complaining that crops are rotting in the fields because there aren't enough agricultural workers to do all the work.....

Maybe that is why we need a Guest worker Program. The employers
pay to transport them to the job, house them and put them on a plane to return after the crops have been picked, I'm sure they would just pass on any additional cost to the consumer.



Over the last two decades illegal aliens have made contributions totaling into the billions in a Social Security system in which they will never see a penny in return. Every study I've seen proves that immigrants contribute more to the GDP of the nation that they take away. Immigrants help keep wages low, not only in Agriculture, by in retail, manufacturing and the all important home construction industry.

Many American Citizens have contributed to SS and may not see 1 penny
in return. The aliens contribute more to the GNP of Mexico and the countries they send the money home to than they do the our GNP.



I would like to see all immigration stopped for a few years, except those
joining a Parent or Child, already in the the US.
Maybe programmers could get that $42,000 job, instead of the Indian
getting it for $26,500

[AFE7FATMAN]

posted for historical or is that hysterical reasons :rolleyes


WASHINGTON – George W. Bush isn't the first Republican president to face a full-blown immigration crisis on the US-Mexican border.
Fifty-three years ago, when newly elected Dwight Eisenhower moved into the White House, America's southern frontier was as porous as a spaghetti sieve. As many as 3 million illegal migrants had walked and waded northward over a period of several years for jobs in California, Arizona, Texas, and points beyond.

President Eisenhower cut off this illegal traffic. He did it quickly and decisively with only 1,075 United States Border Patrol agents - less than one-tenth of today's force. The operation is still highly praised among veterans of the Border Patrol.

Although there is little to no record of this operation in Ike's official papers, one piece of historic evidence indicates how he felt. In 1951, Ike wrote a letter to Sen. William Fulbright (D) of Arkansas. The senator had just proposed that a special commission be created by Congress to examine unethical conduct by government officials who accepted gifts and favors in exchange for special treatment of private individuals. :rolleyes

General Eisenhower, who was gearing up for his run for the presidency, said "Amen" to Senator Fulbright's proposal. He then quoted a report in The New York Times, highlighting one paragraph that said: "The rise in illegal border-crossing by Mexican 'wetbacks' to a current rate of more than 1,000,000 cases a year has been accompanied by a curious relaxation in ethical standards extending all the way from the farmer-exploiters of this contraband labor to the highest levels of the Federal Government."


Years later, the late Herbert Brownell Jr., Eisenhower's first attorney general, said in an interview with this writer that the president had a sense of urgency about illegal immigration when he took office.

America "was faced with a breakdown in law enforcement on a very large scale," Mr. Brownell said. "When I say large scale, I mean hundreds of thousands were coming in from Mexico [every year] without restraint."

Although an on-and-off guest-worker program for Mexicans was operating at the time, farmers and ranchers in the Southwest had become dependent on an additional low-cost, docile, illegal labor force of up to 3 million, mostly Mexican, laborers.

According to the Handbook of Texas Online, published by the University of Texas at Austin and the Texas State Historical Association, this illegal workforce had a severe impact on the wages of ordinary working Americans.

The Handbook Online reports that a study by the President's Commission on Migratory Labor in Texas in 1950 found that cotton growers in the Rio Grande Valley, where most illegal aliens in Texas worked, paid wages that were "approximately half" the farm wages paid elsewhere in the state.

Profits from illegal labor led to the kind of corruption that apparently worried Eisenhower. Joseph White, a retired 21-year veteran of the Border Patrol, says that in the early 1950s, some senior US officials overseeing immigration enforcement "had friends among the ranchers," and agents "did not dare" arrest their illegal workers.

Walt Edwards, who joined the Border Patrol in 1951, tells a similar story. He says: "When we caught illegal aliens on farms and ranches, the farmer or rancher would often call and complain [to officials in El Paso]. And depending on how politically connected they were, there would be political intervention. That is how we got into this mess we are in now."

Bill Chambers, who worked for a combined 33 years for the Border Patrol and the then-called US Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), says politically powerful people are still fueling the flow of illegals. :oops

During the 1950s, however, this "Good Old Boy" system changed under Eisenhower - if only for about 10 years.

In 1954, Ike appointed retired Gen. Joseph "Jumpin' Joe" Swing, a former West Point classmate and veteran of the 101st Airborne, as the new INS commissioner.

Influential politicians, including Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson (D) of Texas and Sen. Pat McCarran (D) of Nevada, favored open borders, and were dead set against strong border enforcement, Brownell said. But General Swing's close connections to the president shielded him - and the Border Patrol - from meddling by powerful political and corporate interests.

One of Swing's first decisive acts was to transfer certain entrenched immigration officials out of the border area to other regions of the country where their political connections with people such as Senator Johnson would have no effect.

Then on June 17, 1954, what was called "Operation Wetback" began. Because political resistance was lower in California and Arizona, the roundup of aliens began there. Some 750 agents swept northward through agricultural areas with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions a day. By the end of July, over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states. Another 488,000, fearing arrest, had fled the country.

By mid-July, the crackdown extended northward into Utah, Nevada, and Idaho, and eastward to Texas.

By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 illegals had left the Lone Star State voluntarily.

Unlike today, Mexicans caught in the roundup were not simply released at the border, where they could easily reenter the US. To discourage their return, Swing arranged for buses and trains to take many aliens deep within Mexico before being set free.

Tens of thousands more were put aboard two hired ships, the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried the aliens from Port Isabel, Texas, to Vera Cruz, Mexico, more than 500 miles south.

The sea voyage was "a rough trip, and they did not like it," says Don Coppock, who worked his way up from Border Patrolman in 1941 to eventually head the Border Patrol from 1960 to 1973.

Mr. Coppock says he "cannot understand why [President] Bush let [today's] problem get away from him as it has. I guess it was his compassionate conservatism, and trying to please [Mexican President] Vincente Fox."

There are now said to be 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens in the US.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html

Bet Ray would like this, and does History repeat itself?

Make that rehtorical.

[ducks]

we do not need a fence we just need bullets

[SA210]

we do not need a fence we just need bullets
Are you a "Christian"?

[01Snake]

Are you a "Christian"?

Who cares. He's a taxpayer. If you wanna support illegals, be my guest. I'm getting tired of it.

[xrayzebra]

Silly no, it’s a friggin fence... Your back yard is fenced, but if someone wants to trespass on your property all they have to do is climb it. So how effective is that. Put some barbwire on that sucker and all the illegals need is a pair of fence cutters. I want my tax money back…

BTW who’s going to work the fields for less than minimum wage? Not you or I. If illegal aliens want to contribute to our country, I’m all for it. After all this country was founded on immigration.

They may dig under or go over, but not by the millions that walk over
now. It will at least slow them down.

Everyone knows what the answer is. You don't hire them, illegals, they
wont come. You fire those that are working and they can find a job, they
go home.

Have a guest worker program that furnishes enough manpower that
companies say they need and it will solve the problem. And I don't
mean a program to legalize those already here. There are thousands
that are trying to come into the country in a legal manner who get
first crack and those that "jumped" the line can go home and wait
their turn. It separates families, sorry, we didn't cause the problem,
the illegals did. Take them home with you and come back the right way.

In other words, lets get the borders under control and then lets go
to work on those that hire the illegals and put a few in jail or fine
the fire out of them. Including Iowa meat packing and some of the
other big employers as well as more than half the roofing companies
and landscaping companies.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Silly no, it’s a friggin fence... Your back yard is fenced, but if someone wants to trespass on your property all they have to do is climb it. So how effective is that. Put some barbwire on that sucker and all the illegals need is a pair of fence cutters. I want my tax money back…


Who said it would be a cyclone fence (chain link)? Put up a double concrete wall 20 feet high with razor wire on top sensors along the way and Border Patrol stations every 20 miles or so, with enough room between the walls for National Guard units to patrol.

Saying they'll find a way is so myopic and ignorant it's not even funny.

The problem right now is there's so much length of the border where they can just walk across no problem. The wall builds a barrier that all but the most determined will look at and say fuck it and go back home when seeing.

Then you've got the existing Border Patrol resources and NG units to deal with the ones who really are determined to get a cross, which will more than likely be the most dangerous.

Unfortunately for some of you cynics it's going to take schools, shopping malls, etc. blowing up when all the AQ types spring into action, or maybe a couple of dirty bombs or God forbid a nuke, to get the message.

And it will be too late at that point. Not securing our borders is a gross error that endangers the future of our country, and everyone (especially those on Capitol Hill in D.C.) need to wake the fuck up before it's too late.

[BIG IRISH]

The elections are over and it is looking like I was right :lol :lol :lol

We don't need a fence on the border(Sarcasm)

I'll bet it will not be built, no 700 miles of it. I bet GW gets his guest worker program and everthing else he wants on the immirgation issue.

[xrayzebra]

The elections are over and it is looking like I was right :lol :lol :lol

We don't need a fence on the border(Sarcasm)

I'll bet it will not be built, no 700 miles of it. I bet GW gets his guest worker program and everthing else he wants on the immirgation issue.

Well you got to remember Pelosi needs her hired help and Kennedy needs
to feel like he is the man again and Bush needs to keep his promise to
the Presidente of Mexico.

But you are right, bring on the illegals. Let the feast begin, again. Or should
I say still.

What the hell, let's just open all our borders, sea ports, and airports to
all who want to come. Have more social programs, raise the minimum
wage of all those working, pull all our troops from overseas and raise
taxes to pay off the national debt. Double Social Security payments,
free medical care for all, lower higher education fees, establish hate crime
laws for everyone, especially gays. Have special recruiting efforts to
get homosexuals into the military, since they were discriminated against
for some many years. Have special promotion quotas for them, hold
special marriage ceremonies or better yet, ban marriage for heterosexuals.
Only same sex marriages would be allowed. Allow abortions up until the
ninth month. Have condoms, birth control pills at all schools and
available for all students at all grades. Dummy stuff for pre-K and K
to get them used to using them. Provide a clean safe environment so
kids can have sex and experiment in the schools.

Now wont this just make everyone feel better, knowing we are taking
care of all the important stuff in our part of the world.

Oh, Yes. Don't forget. Cars will be banned. Bicycles will be made
available to all who want them. Buses and trains will be available at
no cost to any citizen or non-citizen or at a very low cost.
All homes must be equipped with solar systems for heat, electricity
and heating of water, that is when water is available, because animals
get first crack at all water, it is only fair. We must not allow any
spring, river, creek or lake to go dry. No tree cutting will be allowed,
without special permission from the environmental agency.

Have I left anything out? Well global warming, but since no cars will
be allowed that should cut down on using bad old oil. Oh, did I mention
we will also ban the generation of electricity by any means except the
solar panels installed on your roof. All this at government expense you
understand. Oh, and everyone must work, to pay taxes, all your
money will be sent to the government and you will be given an allowance
for things the government deems necessary.

:dizzy :drunk :hat

Oh, I know what I have said is ridiculous, but all the above have been
proposed or being proposed.

[gtownspur]

By christian do you mean,


As one who has a provacative bikini clad woman in my avatar and love to call everyone a hypocrite for not living up to my standards of a true christian, by calling them murderers for supporting a party that endorses a war, and being against forced government charity.

Because afterall, even though my party is pro abortion, the slaughtering of children, and against having to live up to one's consequences, we are better than you republican tahoe driving hypocrites. Although my party loves to take money from filth rags and host fundraisers at porn mansions, God loves the democrat party becuase we admit and willfully disobey his commands, while you hypocritical republicans try to live up to your morality that you claim to keep.

Oh yeah, and Mark foley, Mark FOley, and Mark Foley,.........


But see in the bible it says "Thou can blindly curse and slander people, so long as you help hobos who live under a bridge!"- The epistle of SA210 chp 1 vs 4.


I know you are but what am I?

[Hook Dem]

Well you got to remember Pelosi needs her hired help and Kennedy needs
to feel like he is the man again and Bush needs to keep his promise to
the Presidente of Mexico.

But you are right, bring on the illegals. Let the feast begin, again. Or should
I say still.

What the hell, let's just open all our borders, sea ports, and airports to
all who want to come. Have more social programs, raise the minimum
wage of all those working, pull all our troops from overseas and raise
taxes to pay off the national debt. Double Social Security payments,
free medical care for all, lower higher education fees, establish hate crime
laws for everyone, especially gays. Have special recruiting efforts to
get homosexuals into the military, since they were discriminated against
for some many years. Have special promotion quotas for them, hold
special marriage ceremonies or better yet, ban marriage for heterosexuals.
Only same sex marriages would be allowed. Allow abortions up until the
ninth month. Have condoms, birth control pills at all schools and
available for all students at all grades. Dummy stuff for pre-K and K
to get them used to using them. Provide a clean safe environment so
kids can have sex and experiment in the schools.

Now wont this just make everyone feel better, knowing we are taking
care of all the important stuff in our part of the world.

Oh, Yes. Don't forget. Cars will be banned. Bicycles will be made
available to all who want them. Buses and trains will be available at
no cost to any citizen or non-citizen or at a very low cost.
All homes must be equipped with solar systems for heat, electricity
and heating of water, that is when water is available, because animals
get first crack at all water, it is only fair. We must not allow any
spring, river, creek or lake to go dry. No tree cutting will be allowed,
without special permission from the environmental agency.

Have I left anything out? Well global warming, but since no cars will
be allowed that should cut down on using bad old oil. Oh, did I mention
we will also ban the generation of electricity by any means except the
solar panels installed on your roof. All this at government expense you
understand. Oh, and everyone must work, to pay taxes, all your
money will be sent to the government and you will be given an allowance
for things the government deems necessary.

:dizzy :drunk :hat

Oh, I know what I have said is ridiculous, but all the above have been
proposed or being proposed.
Sometimes, the truth looks ridiculous but you are right on!

[ATX Spur]

Who cares. He's a taxpayer. If you wanna support illegals, be my guest. I'm getting tired of it.

Getting tired of it? What exactly are you doing that's making you tired of it?

[gtownspur]

Getting tired of it? What exactly are you doing that's making you tired of it?

Why, it's obvious if you live in the Atx when you get your breckenridge hospital bill.

[smeagol]

Sons of immigrants fighting to stop immigration.

[jochhejaam]

Sons of immigrants fighting to stop immigration.
Correction, illegal immigration. I imagine most Countries have laws on the books regarding immigration.

Immigration is fine, they just need to respect the laws when doing so.

[xrayzebra]

Correction, illegal immigration. I imagine most Countries have laws on the books regarding immigration.

Immigration is fine, they just need to respect the laws when doing so.

Dammit, quite clouding the issue with facts. Stop it, do you hear. For the
sake of humanity. Or human rights, whatever rings their bell. :spin

[smeagol]

Correction, illegal immigration. I imagine most Countries have laws on the books regarding immigration.

Immigration is fine, they just need to respect the laws when doing so.
Agreed.

I just find it odd how many people in this forum, who live in Texas and are clearly sons of Latino immigrants, are so hardliners on this issue.

'Cause the discussion is not about making it more flexible to come into the US and work, knowing the US has a defecit when it comes to certain type of labourers. It's all about building a fence, calling the army to secure the borders, or simply shooting people (ducks).

[smeagol]

raise the minimum wage of all those working, pull all our troops from overseas and raise taxes to pay off the national debt. Double Social Security payments,
free medical care for all, lower higher education fees, establish hate crime
laws for everyone, especially gays.


Hey Ray, very revealing to know you are against (i) raising the minimum wage (how the fuck can people be against allowing the less fortunate to make a little more money :wtf ), (ii) pay the national debt, (iii) free medical care,l (iv) lower education fees, and (v) establishing hate crimes as law for gay people.

You sure are a very charitable human being :rolleyes

[xrayzebra]

Hey Ray, very revealing to know you are against (i) raising the minimum wage (how the fuck can people be against allowing the less fortunate to make a little more money :wtf ), (ii) pay the national debt, (iii) free medical care,l (iv) lower education fees, and (v) establishing hate crimes as law for gay people.

You sure are a very charitable human being :rolleyes

Aren't I though. Very nice of you to notice.

And quit calling them "gay" people. Call them what they are "homosexuals".

Some people used to be gay without being a homosexual. But they ruined a
very useful word. Why do they not want to be called what they are?

Lesbians have no problem in being called what they are.

And answer me another question. Isn't murder, robbery, assault, etc all
hate crimes to begin with? Or should we abolish those titles and call
everything hate. And would you please define hate to me. Hate to
me is a thought process and can be as subtle as turning your back on
someone who you dislike (hate). Or will not associate with. Should
you and I be prosecuted for that, since we acted on our hate? Think
about what you are asking for.

[01Snake]

Getting tired of it? What exactly are you doing that's making you tired of it?

I'm tired of supporting illegals (and other lazy white, black, yellow blue people who don't work) by paying taxes.

Perhaps if you actually had a job and made some money, you might start to get a little pissed when you see all the fucking money you pay out in taxes.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sons of immigrants fighting to stop *illegal* immigration.

FIFY.

[smeagol]

Aren't I though. Very nice of you to notice.

And quit calling them "gay" people. Call them what they are "homosexuals".

Gays . . . homosexuals . . . you know what I mean. Quit playing dumb.



Some people used to be gay without being a homosexual. But they ruined a very useful word. Why do they not want to be called what they are?


"They"? Who is "they"? At the end of the day, who cares? CHristian used to mean something too, and now it means close to nothing.



And answer me another question. Isn't murder, robbery, assault, etc all hate crimes to begin with?


No, they are not.

You are suppose to be old and wise. You are not.



Or should we abolish those titles and call everything hate.

Tell me how the killing of a man by a robber who is trying to steal money because he needs food, or a drug-related murder, equates to the killing of a homosexual by a gang of four neo-nazis simply becasue of the poor guys sexual orientation?



And would you please define hate to me. Hate to me is a thought process and can be as subtle as turning your back on someone who you dislike (hate). Or will not associate with. Should you and I be prosecuted for that, since we acted on our hate? Think about what you are asking for.

Ok viejo. How do you want to label the killing of blacks by white supremacists or the killing of Mathew Shepard?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Aren't I though. Very nice of you to notice.

And quit calling them "gay" people. Call them what they are "homosexuals".

Some people used to be gay without being a homosexual. But they ruined a
very useful word. Why do they not want to be called what they are?

Lesbians have no problem in being called what they are.

And answer me another question. Isn't murder, robbery, assault, etc all
hate crimes to begin with? Or should we abolish those titles and call
everything hate. And would you please define hate to me. Hate to
me is a thought process and can be as subtle as turning your back on
someone who you dislike (hate). Or will not associate with. Should
you and I be prosecuted for that, since we acted on our hate? Think
about what you are asking for.

I think you can rob, beat, or even murder a person without hating them. Some people do those things simply for monetary gain. The hate crime is the act of commiting the murder or heinous act not because you personally hate the victim, but because you hate their religion, ethnicity, race, color, sexual orientation, nationality, etc. The government shouldn't (I hope) get so involved in our personal lives as to make crimes of being rude, ignoring people, or simply not liking someone. The crime is the illegal act (murder, assault, rape) plus the reason (hatred, prejudice, bias) for the act.