Some residents want SAHA to stay out of Stone Oak

[JoeChalupa]

Stone Oak Residents Say stay out SAHA. (http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/realestate/stories/MYSA103006.SAHAstoneoak.KENS.211f2a0.html)

Some residents want SAHA to stay out of Stone Oak

Web Posted: 10/31/2006 12:46 AM CST

Krace Grace
KENS 5 Eyewitness News

Stone Oak residents packed a meeting Monday night to speak out against a proposal by the San Antonio Housing Authority to turn two upscale apartment complexes into low-income housing.

SAHA wants to buy the TalaVera Apartments and the Marquis at the Legends Apartments off of Loop 1604 and Blanco Road, and offer some units as subsidized housing.

For most residents who attended the meeting at Stone Oak Elementary School, the idea just didn't sit well.

"We need to put an end to this once and for all. You want to ruin some parts of San Antonio? Get the hell out of Stone Oak," said Terri Hunlee to applause at the meeting. "No, it's not fair. It's not fair that people are buying houses for $400,000 and you (SAHA) want to come in and bring in people who might be paying $5, $10, $30 rent."

"I want to know what I can do to stop you from doing this," said Alicia Stoball, fighting back tears.

Residents confronted the housing authority about the proposal to add mixed income housing to the two apartment complexes, worth $50 million. The proposal would make both complexes completely tax exempt.

"It doesn't take 100 percent tax exemption on a $50 million piece of property to do affordable housing for 64 families," District 9 Councilman Kevin Wolff said.

However, SAHA officials defended the proposal.

"We have a responsibility to further fair housing in the city of San Antonio," said Henry Alvarez, president and CEO of SAHA.

But at what cost to the children? Northeast Independent School District officials say they would lose $200,000 in tax money.

"(I'm) frustrated we don't have a say in this," said Dr. Richard Middleton, the superintendent of NEISD.

Middleton isn't the only one.

"I guarantee you're going to affect my property values, and I'm not at all pleased about it," Stone Oak resident Cindy Tramontan said.

"I can't change any of that. There's nothing absolutely any of us can do to change your emotions, your fears, your prejudices, your concerns. We can't," said Danielle Hargrove, vice-chair of SAHA's Board of Commissioners. The statement drew boos from the crowd.

This is not a done deal. SAHA said it is only in the letter of intent phase. It also said it will do criminal background checks on all of these families, and it said this will not adversely affect the school district or property values.



What say you?

I can see both sides to this but those homes are way out of my league.

[1369]

All the elementary schools and Reagan are capped and SAHA wants to move more families there?

Not smart. Plus, there's enough cash in the surrounding neighborhoods to hire high-speed legal help to bog this down for a long time.

[JoeChalupa]

I agree. Money will do the talking and SAHA will do the walking.

[johnsmith]

This absolute garbage. I moved out of that area based on traffic and congestion but even no longer living there, I still say this is garbage.

I've never lived in a city where the government decided to put low income housing in a middle to upper class area. What the fuck is the point of this? There are plenty of shitty ass areas in SA that they could do the same thing with, plus they'd all be living in similar housing situations.

[JoeChalupa]

So keep the classes separated is a good idea?

Is that why some bitched when the New Arena was built on the East Side?

Just asking.

[johnsmith]

So keep the classes separated is a good idea?

Is that why some bitched when the New Arena was built on the East Side?

Just asking.


Hey, build an arena wherever the hell you want, but what is the point of doing this? Give me a valid reason for it on why it's necessary to build low income, tax exempt housing in a predominately upper class area.

[1369]

John, SAHA isn't going to build anything, they're going to "take over" two existing apartment complexes.

A government (they are part of the city government, aren't they?) agency taking over and running a private enterprise, what could go wrong?

[PM5K]

"I want to know what I can do to stop you from doing this," said Alicia Stoball, fighting back tears.

L O Motherfucking L...

[CharlieMac]

"I want to know what I can do to stop you from doing this," said Alicia Stoball, fighting back tears.

I have no idea why the kids on that side of town cry when they dont get their way.

What a bunch of assholes. 2 housing complexes are not going to change a thing in that Reagan High School area.

[johnsmith]

San Antonio is a dirtbag town with the north, northeast, and northwest being the only inhabitable areas that are lacking views of news stations coming over on a nightly basis to report on a person shot in the area. Let's eliminate it and continue to drive the middle to upper class folks farther north until they are well outside of bexar county, then the local government can collect taxes from all of those people bringing in the second lowest average income for a "major" city in the United States.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i thought this thread was about manutd luis saha :D

[johnsmith]

I have no idea why the kids on that side of town cry when they dont get their way.

What a bunch of assholes. 2 housing complexes are not going to change a thing in that Reagan High School area.


2 housing complexes in a different part of town sure as hell won't change a thing in those areas, so why mess with a good thing?

[johnsmith]

Sure it will one low income ignorant piece of garbage will get made fun of because of his afro and he'll take Daddy's illegal sawed off shotgun to school and take whitey out. Then the boy and the Dad will be sent to prison and then his cousin his uncle his bothers will form a new gang and take out all the whitey's that got their boy sent away and it will end a murderous spree that never should have happened because well off people can afford to have a home away from crime ridden poor people.

These people didn't bust their collective asses to earn a solid income only to have poor trash invest their schools and neighborhoods bringing down the value of everything because their too fucking lazy to get out and get a real job and stop popping out kids for all of us to support and house.


Thank you.

[johnsmith]

Just call it like I see it. If that was my neighborhood and this happened I'd burn it down. Not to mention I lived in Talavera for 4 years its nice there right on the golf course. I'd like to see all the blue hairs on the 7th hole react to a bunch of dudes sucking down 40's near the fence line. Its rediculous to house these people in such a nice place.


Those are the apartments on Sonterra right?

[SpursWoman]

So keep the classes separated is a good idea?



Would you be happy buying a $500,000 home and face a very realistic possibility that you are going to lose major money on your investment?

But hey ... at least their property taxes will go down.

We just bought a house in an area where the appreciation rate over the last three years has been a steady 9% ... meaning that within a couple of years we will have a substantial amount of equity in our home...which will help considerably if we ever decide to sell or improve or refinance. That had no small influence on our decision to move there.

Go put in low-income housing right next door and we'd lose a lot, if not all of that...not to mention with poverty comes more crime.

To say that I'd be pissed would be an understatement.

[johnsmith]

Talavera is over looking the South Couse of Sonterra you can see it from 1604 on the hill across from the HEB. I payed 575 to 750 a month for a one bedroom. I don't think underachievers deserve such a nice place.


Now I'm even more angry because I love playing that course. God help me if anyone says a word in my back swing.........I'm suing the SAHA.

[JoeChalupa]

Just call it like I see it. If that was my neighborhood and this happened I'd burn it down. Not to mention I lived in Talavera for 4 years its nice there right on the golf course. I'd like to see all the blue hairs on the 7th hole react to a bunch of dudes sucking down 40's near the fence line. Its rediculous to house these people in such a nice place.

KEDA was calling it like he saw it and you attacked him. Listen, there are a lot of low-life, drug taking, crime doing people in the Upper Class neighborhoods too you know. Just because people are down on their luck or whatever does NOT make them scumbags.
I understand working hard and wanting a nice home but that shouldn't give you the right to say that just because someone isn't in your tax bracket that they are beneath you. That is just plain BS and you know it.

[spurschick]

As a homeowner in Stone Oak, I am a bit perplexed as to why they chose these two complexes for low-income housing. For an area that is known for it's higher priced housing, it seems like an odd choice. Unfortunately, it would have an effect on property values.

That being said, I don't think it's fair to say that low income = dirtbags. While there are some people in the world who are lazy and have no ambition, there are many who have simply been dealt a weird hand and they're doing the best they can.

[1369]

Reading the article again, neither one of these complexes are in Stone Oak. I don't know how "far" the impact on property values would reach, but I can't see it affecting Stone Oak.

[JoeChalupa]

Would you be happy buying a $500,000 home and face a very realistic possibility that you are going to lose major money on your investment?

But hey ... at least their property taxes will go down.

We just bought a house in an area where the appreciation rate over the last three years has been a steady 9% ... meaning that within a couple of years we will have a substantial amount of equity in our home...which will help considerably if we ever decide to sell or improve or refinance. That had no small influence on our decision to move there.

Go put in low-income housing right next door and we'd lose a lot, if not all of that...not to mention with poverty comes more crime.

To say that I'd be pissed would be an understatement.

Good points. I knew this would strike a nerve with some. But liike I said, those homes are WAY out of my league. The lower class is more my league and I'm not ashamed to say so.

[JoeChalupa]

Now I'll shut my scumbag pie-hole and read.

[CharlieMac]

Reading the article again, neither one of these complexes are in Stone Oak. I don't know how "far" the impact on property values would reach, but I can't see it affecting Stone Oak.

I also don't see these complexes dropping property values to below 150k in that area either.

[KEDA]

Dammit

Im moving into the Stone Oak area in March, I dont want to see this happen.

I have worked in low income areas, and needless to say, it wasnt a good thing.

it was so bad where I was we had Windcrest P.D. escort us to our cars every night when we closed the store.

I dont want that kind of stuff happening to me where I live (or going to live)

[IX_Equilibrium]

So keep the classes separated is a good idea?




Nobody is "keeping" the lower socioeconomic class anywhere. SAHA wants to enable that lower class to live in an area that they could not otherwise afford. That is unfair to the people who live there that can actually afford it. These people live in that area and pay more because they want a higher standard of living. For SAHA to come in and give handouts in that area would completely contraindicate that higher standard they have sought and paid for.

[SpursWoman]

The lower class is more my league and I'm not ashamed to say so.


And you shouldn't be ... but I do also think it's weird that they would consider that area as a suitable place for low-income housing when everything around there is so expensive.

I'm not buying $500,000 houses, either ... but it would just seem to me that if I were low-income and put in that area that it would just emphasize my monetary deficiencies and I'd feel waaaaay out of place.

[PM5K]

Reading the article again, neither one of these complexes are in Stone Oak. I don't know how "far" the impact on property values would reach, but I can't see it affecting Stone Oak.

I agree, if you live next door your fucked, otherwise......

[SA210]

So keep the classes separated is a good idea? Exactly. Let's just keep all the low income or as many people see them, "low life scumbags" on one section of town.

Keep them all together in one area so that we can continue living comfortably and not worry that there is a problem with poverty. Sweep them under a rug.

Don't worry though, the holdays are coming, that's when people will act like they care about poor people, around the holidays, then it'll all go back to the same in January. Same ol same ol. :rolleyes

Not to mention if you are under SAHA, unless you fall under a certain category (disabled, mentally ill, going to school) you MUST work, Those are the rules.

So people need to stop stereotyping and learn something about what they are trying to talk about. And in alot of cases, if you fall under one of those categories, you have to complete a certain amount of community service "volunteer hours" to a non-profit organization per month.

And these people whom Are working, pay at Least 1/3 of their income for rent. So we need to stop it with the "5 dollar rent" nonsense.

I understand the negative with certain people in poverty (crime, drug use, etc.). I just think it's an easy label to throw around for people if you don't like them. Since most people are selfish on this subject, most will agree with those labels. Poverty is always a touchy subject, and I'll be damned if I don't speak up when people are throwing garbage out and don't even know what they are talking about when it comes to this subject.

I'll be back on later tonight, because I know people will hate what I said. :hungry:

[JoeChalupa]

I agree with those who don't want this in their neighborhood. I just get a hair up my ass when people start downgrading people simply because of where they live. But that is just me.
I too moved out of the East Side of town and granted, I ain't living in Stone Oak but I didn't want my kids growing up where the crime rate is higher.
If I lived there I would bitch too.
But I also know very good people in the lower income areas of the city.

[MoSpur]

As a homeowner in Stone Oak, I am a bit perplexed as to why they chose these two complexes for low-income housing. For an area that is known for it's higher priced housing, it seems like an odd choice. Unfortunately, it would have an effect on property values.

That being said, I don't think it's fair to say that low income = dirtbags. While there are some people in the world who are lazy and have no ambition, there are many who have simply been dealt a weird hand and they're doing the best they can.

I agree with you. I am building a home right now outside of city limits. The area is very nice and the property value is going up. I would be very upset, if they decided to put low-income housing in that area because of the property, but I would not call those people who moved into that housing project garbage or anything like that.

I don't believe that all people who can't afford to buy a $250K house and up are trash, criminals, or the like.

[JoeChalupa]

Well said SA210.

[JoeChalupa]

^I concur. I just don't want any criminals setting up illegal gambling rings in my neighborhood. :spin


No, I don't blame you at all. I guess it is just a fact that society will alway be separated by class no matter how much Kumba Ya would be a good thing.

[PM5K]

To say something like you won't shop at the same stores as them is totally fucking stupid....

Sixty four families isn't going to change a fucking thing, especially with the population in that area already....

[JoeChalupa]

Maybe that is why I won't shop at the shops at La Cantera?

[PM5K]

Maybe that is why I won't shop at the shops at La Cantera?

?

[Melmart1]

How can 64 families make that much of an impact. This is all much ado about nothing. That area is so fucking overcrowded that I doubt anyone would have noticed if it hadn't been announced. I just find it hard to believe that a couple hundred people could affect an ENTIRE area so badly that everyone's property value is going down.

[PM5K]

I didn't say I won't I said I wouldn't want to. Even if it was 20 families it would have a financial impact. You really think I'm the only that wouldn't want to shop in this area knowing they reside there? Lots of people will want to go elsewhere....would we notice on the surface, probably not but if you owned one of those small business or shops there I bet you'd notice after half a year to a year once they are there.

I think the Katrina thread is an example of what happens when you bring low income people into areas that are middle class. A blown up version YES but the numbers don't lie.

People have moved and not shopped at places for far less reasons.

I'd rather live near those sixty-four families than next door to you...

[JoeChalupa]

?

They are way out of my league is my point. Have no desire to shop there. But not because of the people but because of the prices.
I guess it depends on where you've lived. I go to the southside and eastside all the time and won't think twice to go into a store. But I'm comfortable and I actually feel out of place in the more upper class areas.

[Melmart1]

You really think I'm the only that wouldn't want to shop in this area knowing they reside there?
So just because an area has low income housing, you wont patronize the shops in that area? Dude, where the fuck do you shop? Even Beverly Hills has low income housing. Seriously, do you eat?

[Melmart1]

There is no such thing as a risk-free area.

[1369]

You're crazy to think your typical white breed fake tittied Prada wearing do nothing housewife won't crusade over this.

Hey, I live in Stone Oak, where do I get one of those?

[ChumpDumper]

Remember they have a Target an HEB a Walmart. Well off or rich people are terrified of this stuff.Yeah, they're terrified of the people who work at those places. :lol

[JoeChalupa]

Damn, Dirties is making me uncomfortable. :lmao

The world is a funny thing. When I worked at an upper class HEB it surprised me how many "bad checks" came in and cars got broken into and the shoplifting. And writing bad checks is a crime damnit!!

But I'm sure it is just lower income families that are shopping where they don't belong.

[ashbeeigh]

What I'm seeing here are the things the city would need to bring in to the Stone Oak area to please the people living there. It's already a very over crowded area with people who already have the ability to povide for themsleves. On WOAI Aubrey Mika spoke of the presentation where SAHA presented a single mother going to school, a disabled man, and an elderly woman living in these apartments. I'm being partial, in my bias being a complete northsider from the time I moved here at the age of 4, but wouldn't the city then need to provide buses, and clinics, and tutors, etc to please a new demographic in an already overcrowded area?

Is this also the way SAHA usually goes about proposing a new housing area? Or are they just stepping in saying they're going to buy these apartments?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I'm just throwing random thoughts on here - and maybe I missed it with other reports: Exactly how much is this going to cost SAHA to purchase these two complexes?

I would venture a guess that it would be fairly expensive and would argue along the point that the money could be better used to either upgrade, offer more services or if they're trying to get people out of directly-affected areas of crime, a less-expensive, but nicer area of town.

But, with things like this, it's always NIMBY.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

It's the perfect plan. Move in low income housing into an overcrowded area, wait for the white flight, and problem solved. CIA SAHA?

Seriously, this sounds like a rather poorly thought out plan. I can see 100 ways this could turn into a logistical and PR nightmare in a hurry.

[leemajors]

How can 64 families make that much of an impact. This is all much ado about nothing. That area is so fucking overcrowded that I doubt anyone would have noticed if it hadn't been announced. I just find it hard to believe that a couple hundred people could affect an ENTIRE area so badly that everyone's property value is going down.

it's probably not whether they make an impact, it's the perceived impact, which will be worse with all the hue and cry over this - people will panic and the value will nosedive.

[DoubtingThomas]

Should Stone Oak residents build a fence around their neighborhood to keep to undesireables out?

[johnsmith]

Should Stone Oak residents build a fence around their neighborhood to keep to undesireables out?


We already do, they're called gated communities.

[DoubtingThomas]

We already do, they're called gated communities.

I think those apartments are gated too but I'm not sure.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm just throwing random thoughts on here - and maybe I missed it with other reports: Exactly how much is this going to cost SAHA to purchase these two complexes?

I would venture a guess that it would be fairly expensive and would argue along the point that the money could be better used to either upgrade, offer more services or if they're trying to get people out of directly-affected areas of crime, a less-expensive, but nicer area of town.

But, with things like this, it's always NIMBY.This is the only issue in my mind. If this is the best deal available to SAHA or it makes financial sense, then by all means they should follow through with it. However, if it is simply someone on a crusade to move poor family's to the Stone Oak area then I believe it is foolish and the city better find a better use for tax dollars and spend them far more wisely.

People are fucking irritating. You put them in the same room, and they'll likely get along but if you tell them first that they are from different classes they come in with all kinds of predispositions and stereotypes waiting to be filled.

People have rights to a certain extent to protect their property values, but I'm not so that should be the city's main interest. If it makes fiscal sense for the city to make this move, then fuck the property values.

Shit, I want to see proff that this would lower them to begin with. Its such xenophobic bullshit.

[Spam]

This idea sucks ass.

[CosmicCowboy]

Thats over 3/4 million per family to be relocated. SAHA is soooooo fucked up. I do business with them and they can't take care of the property they already have.

[Trainwreck2100]

They move out ther to get away from those people/

[MannyIsGod]

I doubt its fiscally better for the city these are luxury apartments not fixer uppers. So fuck the property values.....so piss off a good portion of the strongest financial zip codes in your city for 100 families. Even more so to put poor people up in luxury apartment surrounding their private country clubs golf course. Sounds fucking a bit outlandish to me.

Remeber kids if you use the word xenophobic it makes you look smart. I'm not even so sure its xenophobic BS matter of fact I totally disagree with you and I think you just wanted to use a big word because those people chose their neighborhoods with the intent to put themselves in a poor free upscale neighborhood they fully know what they are not wanting in their communities and its poor low class people good or bad they don't want it. So in sum they aren't fearing something foreign they are fearing what they know and thats poor people live in clusters and within those clusters there is crime and they don't want it.Hey dude, I'm sorry I'd rather build my vocabulary than flop my penis around on Spurstalk, but thats the way it is. I used that word specificaly because I knew you'd go to your tired "Manny uses words with more than 3 syllables to look smart" schtick. I guarntee you that I don't need long words to feel smart when I'm up against you.

It absolutely is forgien to them and they display complete fucking ignorance. If you show me proof that a few hundred people is going to cause a noticeable change in crime rates and property values then you might have a case but the fact these residents are in an uproar over a few people that are different makes it TEXTBOOK xenophobia. It is stereotypical nonsense.

Oh and asshole, if you're going to try to keep your words simple then mix in a period ever now and again. That last paragraph was a bitch to read.

For the record, I have my doubts on whether or not this is the better financial move for SAHA, but thats the only consideration there is for me. I couldn't care less if some schmucks are afraid of having someone wearing Pay Less shoes walking on their nice Stone Oak sidewalks.


Edit: :lmao again at "its not xenophobia its just rich people fearing poor people"

[Kori Ellis]

Its a reality that people act this way in that neighborhood and if I paid that kind of money I'd probably only want to roll with my kind, that is the idea of the "community" they are trying to have.

Hey I'm normal I'm just a realist when it comes to this stuff. I live in a 120k home nothing special surrounded by 60k to 150k homes its a pretty diverse neighborhood I live in. There is a halfway house 5 miles from me and the house accross the street takes in upwards of 20 abused kids weekly not to mention the drug rehab 2 blocks over so I get what the real world is about and I can tell you when I move it'll be away from the cop cars dropping off abused kids and vagrants walking the streets. The HEB I go to has employeed some of these formerly addicted drug users staying in the halfway house and that rehab I'm sure they're clean but it makes me uncomfortable, I want away from it all. Do they bother me NO but sorry it just makes me uncomfortable so I can see how these people feel about injecting the potential bad in there neighborhoods.

Have any of these people bothered me NO but could they one day YES. People don't like the risk behind it.


:lol Is this just a shock value post or what?


I'd probably only want to roll with my kind

What's "your kind"? Assholes?

You are afraid that people that are in drug rehab might eventually do something to you?

What about the rich people that have all the drugs they want and aren't in rehab? Those people are cool because they have money?

Senseless.

I get most people's point (on both sides) in this thread. But your posts are funny.

[johnsmith]

Hey dude, I'm sorry I'd rather build my vocabulary than flop my penis around on Spurstalk, but thats the way it is. I used that word specificaly because I knew you'd go to your tired "Manny uses words with more than 3 syllables to look smart" schtick. I guarntee you that I don't need long words to feel smart when I'm up against you.

It absolutely is forgien to them and they display complete fucking ignorance. If you show me proof that a few hundred people is going to cause a noticeable change in crime rates and property values then you might have a case but the fact these residents are in an uproar over a few people that are different makes it TEXTBOOK xenophobia. It is stereotypical nonsense.

Oh and asshole, if you're going to try to keep your words simple then mix in a period ever now and again. That last paragraph was a bitch to read.

For the record, I have my doubts on whether or not this is the better financial move for SAHA, but thats the only consideration there is for me. I couldn't care less if some schmucks are afraid of having someone wearing Pay Less shoes walking on their nice Stone Oak sidewalks.


Edit: :lmao again at "its not xenophobia its just rich people fearing poor people"

A fucked up front yard next door to your house can lower your property value, what the hell do you think low income housing next door would do to it?

Since Katrina, crime rates have gone up by 55% in SA, I know that the population didn't increase by 55%.........oh, and guess what, these people live in low income housing.

Property values in the immediate are will lower, that's a fact........I'm not sure about crime increasing in the area but if I'm a prospective buyer, I'm sure as hell not buying a house next door to that.......Rich people, and I use that term as loosely as possible because you don't have to be rich to live in the area, but they don't fear poor people, they just don't want to live next door to them, that's why they buy houses way up north, to get away from it.

[Kori Ellis]

The funny thing about this is that they picked apartment complexes on the golf course. Marquis at Legends, I believe the cheapest one bedroom apartment goes for around $850. It's an odd choice.

[ShoogarBear]

Personally, I think that everyone who makes less money than me is a worthless piece of shit.

[johnsmith]

The funny thing about this is that they picked apartment complexes on the golf course. Marquis at Legends, I believe the cheapest one bedroom apartment goes for around $850. It's an odd choice.


Every time you play the south course during the summer, after the 10th and 17th hole you get to see hot chicks hanging out in the pool, now I'll have to see some poor shmoe who doesn't pay taxes lounging around in his Under Armor shirt yelling, "we will protect this house".

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

now I'll have to see some poor shmoe who doesn't pay taxes lounging around in his Under Armor shirt yelling, "we will protect this house".

NorCal's moving to San Antonio?

[johnsmith]

NorCal's moving to San Antonio?


:lmao :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

Every time you play the south course during the summer, after the 10th and 17th hole you get to see hot chicks hanging out in the pool, now I'll have to see some poor shmoe who doesn't pay taxes lounging around in his Under Armor shirt yelling, "we will protect this house".Damn dude, I'm just overflowing with sympathy for you.

[Trainwreck2100]

White collar crime>>>Blue collar crime

[1369]

People have rights to a certain extent to protect their property values, but I'm not so that should be the city's main interest. If it makes fiscal sense for the city to make this move, then fuck the property values.

Well, I own a house in Stone Oak and if this is going to fuck with my property value, I will do everything in my power to stop it.

Own a house Manny, then you'll understand.

[johnsmith]

Damn dude, I'm just overflowing with sympathy for you.


Funny, judging by your argument on why this is ok with you, it seemed like you were overflowing with something else.........

[Trainwreck2100]

Well, I own a house in Stone Oak and if this is going to fuck with my property value, I will do everything in my power to stop it.

Own a house Manny, then you'll understand.


There is no if

[JoeChalupa]

I love my lower class neighborhood because while my neighbors may not have a lot of money they more than make up for it with class.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, I own a house in Stone Oak and if this is going to fuck with my property value, I will do everything in my power to stop it.

Own a house Manny, then you'll understand.Feel free, I never said you shouldn't. But why should the city value your concerns more than the poor mans or the rest of the tax payers? As I said, if it makes fiscan sense for the city then thats more important than the property values of a select few. (And if your property values are going to start moving down based on a few hundred people then I really wonder what the hell is actually driving them up to begin with? Is Stone Oak really such a marginal place to own a home that such a small thing would impact property values so much?) Where do you draw the line? No one wants to deal with the unpleasent aspects of our society and usually the people that get their way are the people with the type of money that buys a house out in Stone Oak. Thats why there are no power plants in Stone Oak. Thats why there are no landfills in Stone Oak. Thats why the property values of Stone Oak residents are more important than any other consideations.

Be in a position where you need section 8 housing because owning a house is out of your readch, then you'll understand.

[johnsmith]

I love my lower class neighborhood because while my neighbors may not have a lot of money they more than make up for it with class.


See, call the SAHA and tell them that these folks need to stay in the classy areas then.

[JoeChalupa]

I remember the looks our family got when we were the first non-white family to move into the neighborhood back in the 60's. I'm sure people were thinking that WE were going to make their property values go down and it NEVER happened.
I guess the more things change the more they stay the same.
I know this isn't about race but it hurts just the same when you are the ones not welcome.

[MannyIsGod]

I remember the looks our family got when we were the first non-white family to move into the neighborhood back in the 60's. I'm sure people were thinking that WE were going to make their property values go down and it NEVER happened.
I guess the more things change the more they stay the same.
I know this isn't about race but it hurts just the same when you are the ones not welcome.Classism is the new racisim. Its not really about the browns/whites anymore, its more aobut the haves and have nots.

[johnsmith]

Feel free, I never said you shouldn't. But why should the city value your concerns more than the poor mans or the rest of the tax payers? Where do you draw the line? No one wants to deal with the unpleasent aspects of our society and usually the people that get their way are the people with the type of money that buys a house out in Stone Oak. Thats why there are no power plants in Stone Oak. Thats why there are no landfills in Stone Oak. Thats why the property values of Stone Oak residents are more important than any other consideations.

Be in a position where you need section 8 housing because owning a house is out of your readch, then you'll understand.


They shouldn't value anyone's opinion more then others. However, if they were to build these things say in a different area of town, then no one would complain, however, by starting this process, they have upset a large demographic, a large TAX PAYING demographic in fact. So if you were in SAHA's shoes, would you want to upset no one, or rather a large group of people like this is doing?
Last I looked, there aren't any power plants in much of San Antonio unless you count Calaveras, and that is pretty far removed from everyone. There are no landfills because the aquafer is right under stone oak, God knows you can't dump trash into the ground right over the aquafer.

Your arguments for this are weak.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

They shouldn't value anyone's opinion more then others. However, if they were to build these things say in a different area of town, then no one would complain, however, by starting this process, they have upset a large demographic, a large TAX PAYING demographic in fact. So if you were in SAHA's shoes, would you want to upset no one, or rather a large group of people like this is doing?
Last I looked, there aren't any power plants in much of San Antonio unless you count Calaveras, and that is pretty far removed from everyone. There are no landfills because the aquafer is right under stone oak, God knows you can't dump trash into the ground right over the aquafer.

Your arguments for this are weak.

As far as nobody complaining if it were in another part of town, I would say wherever they decided to put it, the people there would complain.

Wasn't there a similar issue with a new SAMM shelter somewhere along 1604 on the Northside that got people upset (I want to say Huebner-area, maybe inside the loop)?

[Kori Ellis]

The choice of Marquis at Legends is making more sense now. Though it's on the golf course, it's infested with mold and has 31% recommended rate (http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/TX-San-Antonio-Marquis-at-Legends.html) from tenants and they are having a hard time renting out the units.

But if they are only putting 64 families there, what do they need two buildings with 350+ units each for?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

The choice of Marquis at Legends is making more sense now. Though it's on the golf course, it's infested with mold and

I think I would be more upset at SAHA now. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

They shouldn't value anyone's opinion more then others. However, if they were to build these things say in a different area of town, then no one would complain, however, by starting this process, they have upset a large demographic, a large TAX PAYING demographic in fact. So if you were in SAHA's shoes, would you want to upset no one, or rather a large group of people like this is doing?
Last I looked, there aren't any power plants in much of San Antonio unless you count Calaveras, and that is pretty far removed from everyone. There are no landfills because the aquafer is right under stone oak, God knows you can't dump trash into the ground right over the aquafer.

Your arguments for this are weak.My arguements are weak? I'm advocating that SAHA do the fiscaly responsible thing and you're advocating they decide where to do place facilities based on who they pisses off. MY arguement is weak?

JB is the only one who has pointed out how this is NIMBY. That was the point I was making with my refrence to landfills and powerplants. I'm not reffering specificaly to those items and specificaly to Stone Oak but rather how people who can afford live in places like Stone Oak can afford to carry on NIMBY fights. Thats why you you're never going to see unpleasent aspects of society in their neighborhoods.

[ShoogarBear]

Note to self: don't ever have a car break down in Stone Oak.

[johnsmith]

As far as nobody complaining if it were in another part of town, I would say wherever they decided to put it, the people there would complain.

Wasn't there a similar issue with a new SAMM shelter somewhere along 1604 on the Northside that got people upset (I want to say Huebner-area, maybe inside the loop)?


I never heard about that one. What I meant though is that if you build low income housing in low income areas, then would people still complain?

My long term outlook on this is that once this is done once, the flood gates are opened. People will begin to look outside of Bexar county for lower taxes as well as further away from the lower class areas of San Antonio. Then everyone can be happy that they will overcome Detroit as the poorest city in America because all the middle to upper class left.

Just my opinion though.

[MannyIsGod]

The choice of Marquis at Legends is making more sense now. Though it's on the golf course, it's infested with mold and has 31% recommended rate (http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/TX-San-Antonio-Marquis-at-Legends.html) from tenants and they are having a hard time renting out the units.

But if they are only putting 64 families there, what do they need two buildings with 350+ units each for?The other apartments have a 25% reccomended rating as well. There's more than meets the eye here but people are just ready to oppose things based on bullshit.

[braeden0613]

this is one of the worst ideas ever..its not about class or race, its about property values and crime. I wouldnt buy a $500000 home next to one of these apartment complexes. Theres a lot of crappy places in town to put one of these, go there.

[braeden0613]

I never heard about that one. What I meant though is that if you build low income housing in low income areas, then would people still complain?

My long term outlook on this is that once this is done once, the flood gates are opened. People will begin to look outside of Bexar county for lower taxes as well as further away from the lower class areas of San Antonio. Then everyone can be happy that they will overcome Detroit as the poorest city in America because all the middle to upper class left.

Just my opinion though.
I agree completely...look for the population of far north bexar county, bulverde, boerne, helotes, etc. to increase dramatically.

[Kori Ellis]

The other apartments have a 25% reccomended rating as well. There's more than meets the eye here but people are just ready to oppose things based on bullshit.

Yeah there's some weirdness. A $40 million loan was taken out to re-finance these two complexes in December 2004.

[MannyIsGod]

I never heard about that one. What I meant though is that if you build low income housing in low income areas, then would people still complain?

My long term outlook on this is that once this is done once, the flood gates are opened. People will begin to look outside of Bexar county for lower taxes as well as further away from the lower class areas of San Antonio. Then everyone can be happy that they will overcome Detroit as the poorest city in America because all the middle to upper class left.

Just my opinion though.:lol @ the thought that 64 families are going to start a mass exodous out of Bexar county.

You're right. My arguments are really weak.

[SpursWoman]

then fuck the property values





Fuck the high valued properties that the people who own them pay the high property taxes on that fund the public school systems! We don't need schools systems afterall ... we can all just get government subsidized housing and live in luxury apartments. :lol

[johnsmith]

My arguements are weak? I'm advocating that SAHA do the fiscaly responsible thing and you're advocating they decide where to do place facilities based on who they pisses off. MY arguement is weak?

JB is the only one who has pointed out how this is NIMBY. That was the point I was making with my refrence to landfills and powerplants. I'm not reffering specificaly to those items and specificaly to Stone Oak but rather how people who can afford live in places like Stone Oak can afford to carry on NIMBY fights. Thats why you you're never going to see unpleasent aspects of society in their neighborhoods.


Your argument has been regarding classism.


Classism is the new racisim. Its not really about the browns/whites anymore, its more aobut the haves and have nots.


Feel free, I never said you shouldn't. But why should the city value your concerns more than the poor mans or the rest of the tax payers?


Where do you draw the line? No one wants to deal with the unpleasent aspects of our society and usually the people that get their way are the people with the type of money that buys a house out in Stone Oak. Thats why there are no power plants in Stone Oak. Thats why there are no landfills in Stone Oak. Thats why the property values of Stone Oak residents are more important than any other consideations.


I couldn't care less if some schmucks are afraid of having someone wearing Pay Less shoes walking on their nice Stone Oak sidewalks.


Edit: again at "its not xenophobia its just rich people fearing poor people"



People are fucking irritating. You put them in the same room, and they'll likely get along but if you tell them first that they are from different classes they come in with all kinds of predispositions and stereotypes waiting to be filled.


Shit, I want to see proff that this would lower them to begin with. Its such xenophobic bullshit.

So spare me from acting as though you arguing something your not. You throw around this nonsense constantly and then mix in one comment regarding fiscal responsibility as if to justify that you are discussing something you are not.

[ShoogarBear]

Hey Manny,

Good to see I got a rise out of you I feel better now. Maybe you can learn to spell while you're building that vocabulary too.

Its not stereotypical nonsense you are a big fucking ape and if I saw you at the mall I'd run. Why you might ask, not because you are different than me but because big ass monkeys jump around and yell and throw shit on the wall so I'd go to where the non Mannyapes are and hope you don't ask for free housing in my area to infect me with your shit throwing lifestyle. I don't fear the fact that you are different than me or I'm a racist I fear your behavior.Way to articulate your position in a manner that everyone can see where you're coming from.

[MannyIsGod]

Could you be anymore ignorant.You're saying we don't live in a classist society? Where do you want me to start on how wrong you are? Do you want me to quote you higher life expectancy for people with more money? Do you want me to talk about how the poor recieve much worse education? Do you want me to talk about how the poor eat much worse nutrion wise? Do you want me to talk about how the poor live in the worst parts of the country?

Are you sure I'm the ignorant one?

[Kori Ellis]

Way to articulate your position in a manner that everyone can see where you're coming from.

:lmao

[midgetonadonkey]

It kicks ass to be poor.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I never heard about that one. What I meant though is that if you build low income housing in low income areas, then would people still complain?

My long term outlook on this is that once this is done once, the flood gates are opened. People will begin to look outside of Bexar county for lower taxes as well as further away from the lower class areas of San Antonio. Then everyone can be happy that they will overcome Detroit as the poorest city in America because all the middle to upper class left.

Just my opinion though.

Let me do some searching for the SAMM one.

Okay, here's an example. The area I live in (Northwest Crossing) is a very nice area (at least in my eyes), but what has pissed me off is we're on the north edge of the subdivision (I don't know if there's another subdivision between here and 1604) and the one directly north (two or three streets) has no subdivision standards like in ours.

I see broken down cars, boats, unkempt lawns, etc. when driving from here to 1604 and back. I bet if they tried to open one in the middle of NW Crossing, there would be people upset (it's not Stone Oak, but it's not a lower-income area).

Over the past few years, there's been an increase of property crime in our area of the subdivision. Not so much my block, since it's at a 4-way stop that's fairly well-lit near a school, but around, I've seen graffiti, vandalism, et al., but our neighbors pretty much watch out for each other in this small section of our block.

Now, that's not to say it's all bad around us (for example, I know Dio's told me he has a friend in that area I'm talking about, and while Dio is a degenerate sexual deviant online, he's not a criminal - except massive gambling).

Truthfully, I know I'd like to say that I wouldn't mind if something like that came to this area, but once presented with it, I might think differently. I do know that I'd take the time to ask questions and insure that SAHA or whomever was coming in would respect our neighborhood with the tenants they bring in. Contribute to the well-being of our neighborhood and I have no problem.

And by the way, even with that jump in crime (simply observing, no numbers to back it up), the value of our home has jumped significantly, though I believe that's simply because the Bexar County Apparaisal people have their heads up their asses.

[JoeChalupa]

See, call the SAHA and tell them that these folks need to stay in the classy areas then.

I've never been one to tell anyone where or where they cannot live.

[MannyIsGod]

John, the first paragraph in my first post in this thread:


This is the only issue in my mind. If this is the best deal available to SAHA or it makes financial sense, then by all means they should follow through with it. However, if it is simply someone on a crusade to move poor family's to the Stone Oak area then I believe it is foolish and the city better find a better use for tax dollars and spend them far more wisely.

Learn to read.

[MannyIsGod]

Hey Manny,

Good to see I got a rise out of you I feel better now. Maybe you can learn to spell while you're building that vocabulary too.

Its not stereotypical nonsense you are a big fucking ape and if I saw you at the mall I'd run. Why you might ask, not because you are different than me but because big ass monkeys jump around and yell and throw shit on the wall so I'd go to where the non Mannyapes are and hope you don't ask for free housing in my area to infect me with your shit throwing lifestyle. I don't fear the fact that you are different than me or I'm a racist I fear your behavior.Thats ok because I have a bigger dick than you.

[midgetonadonkey]

Thats ok because I have a bigger dick than you.

:lmao

[Buddy Holly]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but its 65 out of 600 plus apartment units that will be turned into low cost housing. Not the entire complexes.

[SpursWoman]

And by the way, even with that jump in crime (simply observing, no numbers to back it up), the value of our home has jumped significantly, though I believe that's simply because the Bexar County Apparaisal people have their heads up their asses.

Bexar County Appraisal District will jack up the value of your home to get more property tax money out of you so should take with a grain of salt...that's not the true market value. Any increase or decrease in your home's value will be based on what homes in your area have recently sold for/how long they were listed before they sold/etc., if you ever try to sell or refinance.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but its 65 out of 600 plus apartment units that will be turned into low cost housing. Not the entire complexes.

I don't think specifically, but thanks...you brought up something in my mind.

The complex my friend works at is being forced (I'm not sure if by their management company or some authority) to file low-income housing paperwork on every resident (even if their income levels are more than enough to pay for the apartment).

Also, hers is a FEMA complex for about 3-5 families/units.

Don't know if that helps, but I'll see if I can find more information to decipher what that first comment means exactly.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Bexar County Appraisal District will jack up the value of your home to get more property tax money out of you so should take with a grain of salt...that's not the true market value. Any increase or decrease in your home's value will be based on what homes in your area have recently sold for/how long they were listed before they sold/etc., if you ever try to sell or refinance.

Yeah, we've figured that with sale prices in the area (this is something my parents look at religiously), the true value of our home has increased about 10K since we bought it, not the 20-25K more our house is valued at by BCAD.

And then we've made upgrades to the home and the lot, so that's included, too.

[MannyIsGod]

Fuck the high valued properties that the people who own them pay the high property taxes on that fund the public school systems! We don't need schools systems afterall ... we can all just get government subsidized housing and live in luxury apartments. :lolIts good to see we're still making coherent arguments in this thread. Now 64 families are not only goig to drive people from Bexar county but they're going to drive us all into subsidized housing too.

[JoeChalupa]

Well, I guess a GTG at my place is out of the question. :lmao

[johnsmith]

John, the first paragraph in my first post in this thread:



Learn to read.


This is the only issue in my mind. If this is the best deal available to SAHA or it makes financial sense, then by all means they should follow through with it. However, if it is simply someone on a crusade to move poor family's to the Stone Oak area then I believe it is foolish and the city better find a better use for tax dollars and spend them far more wisely.

So then what's your argument. You are against classism, but you are also against moving poor people to Stone Oak. Since there is no possible way this makes financial sense, how can you be against both of these things?

[JoeChalupa]

But one day.....one day. Peace.

[johnsmith]

Its good to see we're still making coherent arguments in this thread. Now 64 families are not only goig to drive people from Bexar county but they're going to drive us all into subsidized housing too.


She was implying that why should the Stone Oak residents bother with taxes anymore if the city is just going to move non tax paying citizens into the area without anyone being able to say anything about it.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

So then what's your argument. You are against classism, but you are also against moving poor people to Stone Oak. Since there is no possible way this makes financial sense, how can you be against both of these things?

Well, there is a chance this makes financial sense for SAHA.

Likely, no.

A chance, yes.

[johnsmith]

Well, there is a chance this makes financial sense for SAHA.

Likely, no.

A chance, yes.


Ok, then on the slim to zero far outside chance that this is the most economically responsible thing for the city to do, then he's alright with it? :rolleyes

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Ok, then on the slim to zero far outside chance that this is the most economically responsible thing for the city to do, then he's alright with it? :rolleyes

I think so. I can't speak for Manny, but I really think that's what he said initially.

I just seriously doubt that this makes (and solely on financial sense for SAHA...forgo the socio-economic sense for a minute) sense for SAHA. Even if the units were dilapidated and infested with mold, I doubt the cost of subsidzing those homes would be worth it when they could probably get double or triple the amount of families in a different part of town.

And when I say different part of town, let's just say my area (NW Crossing-area). Again, not Stone Oak, but not lower income by any means.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm just glad we can all get along and still be friends even though our opinions differ and we come from different styles of life 'cause I'll be the first to shake Dirties and John Smith's hand at a GTG and offer them a bean & cheese taco and a Big Red.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I'm just glad we can all get along and still be friends even though our opinions differ and we come from different styles of life 'cause I'll be the first to shake Dirties and John Smith's hand at a GTG and offer them a bean & cheese taco and a Big Red.

I don't think you'll have any left if you offer it to me first. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I'm for SAHA doing what makes most sense financially. I don't think the concerns of a few Stone Oak residents matter more than the concerns of an entire city.

[ShoogarBear]

I'm just glad we can all get along and still be friends even though our opinions differ and we come from different styles of life 'cause I'll be the first to shake Dirties and John Smith's hand at a GTG and offer them a bean & cheese taco and a Big Red.You can stick your hand out. What you would get back is a matter of conjecture.

[SpursWoman]

Its good to see we're still making coherent arguments in this thread. Now 64 families are not only goig to drive people from Bexar county but they're going to drive us all into subsidized housing too.



Wow ... I guess the " :lol " has lost all meaning. :depressed

[MannyIsGod]

Did you not read the initial post you fucking moron. Its already started an uproar over just the initial phase. I doubt it will but if it does happen it will create a huge wave of pissed off wealthy people. Are you really so arrogant to see that most of the time you pull shit out of you ass with no meaning and value just to play devils advocate and feel like you know something that you really don't.I have a HUGE dick.

[johnsmith]

I'm for SAHA doing what makes most sense financially. I don't think the concerns of a few Stone Oak residents matter more than the concerns of an entire city.


You for or against the toll roads?

[MannyIsGod]

I doubt that and we all know you're too scared to pull it out and tarnish you political career as a memeber of the monkey family.I don't have a wide angle lense for my camera so I can't take a picture of it for you to drool over. However meet me at the Stone Oak HEB meat counter and we'll measure there. Loser gets it chopped off by the butcher. Deal?

[MannyIsGod]

You for or against the toll roads?For.

[SA210]

now I'll have to see some poor shmoe who doesn't pay taxes lounging around in his Under Armor shirt yelling, "we will protect this house".
:rolleyes Educate yourself sir. Please. For your sake.

[MannyIsGod]

Wow ... I guess the " :lol " has lost all meaning. :depressedSorry, I'm just being a dick.

[johnsmith]

:rolleyes Educate yourslef sir. Please. For your sake.


Hey dumbass, it was a joke.

[johnsmith]

For.


why?

[SpursWoman]

Sorry, I'm just being a dick.


A big one. :lol :lol

[MannyIsGod]

And yeah, its amazing how all of a sudden being poor equates to not paying taxes. WTF?

[MannyIsGod]

A big one. :lol :lolHuuuuuuuuuuuge.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

:rolleyes Educate yourslef sir. Please. For your sake.

Today's Unintentional Comedy Award.

[MannyIsGod]

why?Because we can't afford to build new roads otherwise. When managed correctly they pay themselves off faster and they reduce traffic congestion. WTF does this have to do with this thread?

[johnsmith]

Today's Unintentional Comedy Award.


:lmao :lmao :lmao

[braeden0613]

And yeah, its amazing how all of a sudden being poor equates to not paying taxes. WTF?
maybe thats because most "poor" people dont pay taxes

[johnsmith]

Because we can't afford to build new roads otherwise. When managed correctly they pay themselves off faster and they reduce traffic congestion. WTF does this have to do with this thread?


Nothing, just trying to bait you into something that you didn't fall for. Well played Manny, well played indeed.


Look, I have to be done with this argument as I have some actual work to do. Bottom line for me though is that the people that live in the Stone Oak area (of which I'm no longer one) work hard to get where they are at (besides those in credit debt) and do so in order to live that sort of lifestyle. If they wanted to live within an area of low income demographics, then they would, God knows it would be cheaper.

This cannot make financial sense and it sure as hell doesn't make common sense for that matter. If you want to alienate your highest tax paying citizens and drive them away from the area, continue on with this trend, it happened along 410 and it will happen along 1604 next, the only other places to move are out of the county.

But hey, at least then San Antonio can finally overtake Detroit as the poorest major city in America.

Oh, and Manny indeed has a huge wang.........errrrrrrrr.........I've heard.

[SA210]

this is one of the worst ideas ever..its not about class or race, its about property values and crime. I wouldnt buy a $500000 home next to one of these apartment complexes. Theres a lot of crappy places in town to put one of these, go there.
crappy places = crappy people

[MannyIsGod]

Why am I not shocked you said that. I know you've never done anything wrong or ever made a mistake. You're a fucking know-nothing tool that gets off on trying to make people feels stupid by using big words. YOUR THE FUCKING VOCAB BULLY. I'd kick you ass if we were in highschool but your parents might scream for an "improve diversity" program and then I might have to hike 35 miles to a different school because I'm white. You know because its the neuvo racist.Anytime you want to go to a GTG, I'll be there. You can kick my ass there.

Its not that I try to make people feel stupid, its that you have an inferiority complex. Thats why you felt the need to bust out your dick and thats why you feel threatened by my larger vocabulary.

It must suck to feel like you have a smaller dick and a smaller brain than me.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't go to that side of town ever since "Manny's Law" the crime there is outragious.

Manny I give you 5 inches at best. You stink of small dick syndrome.:lol

Well if anyone would know...

[johnsmith]

crappy places = crappy people


But according to people like you, white collar areas have more crime anyway, so what does it matter?

Ok, seriously, I'm leaving now.

[braeden0613]

crappy places = crappy people
thats not always true

[MannyIsGod]

Hey Bishop,

I have a big http://www.fahrneyspens.com/ImageGallery/Products/BigThumbnails/p24670b.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

Wait, 5 inches isn't big?

[JoeChalupa]

I don't think you'll have any left if you offer it to me first. :lol

Okay, then make it an eggroll and a Big Red. :spin

[MannyIsGod]

Wait, you were talking thickness right?

My my you're an expert on dicks. Thats pretty ironic on a lot of different levels. Ok, Madden seems like it would be more entertaining now, peace.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Okay, then make it an eggroll and a Big Red. :spin

Et tu, Chalupa?

[Kori Ellis]

How did a low income housing thread turn into a dick contest? :lmao

Manny has Jekka.

Dirties has his white-woman hating wife.

I don't think anyone outside those two women care about your dicks.

:lmao

[PDBM2]

Man, fuck that.

There's other areas in SA they can build "low income housing". Why did they pick Stone Oak? I want to drive from my house to 1604 without getting shot, if that isn't too much to ask for.

[ShoogarBear]

How did a low income housing thread turn into a dick contest? :lmao
Everything is a dick contest.

You wouldn't understand.

[JoeChalupa]

When is GIG going to get in on this?

[johnsmith]

Have you ever seen the movie Congo? Not a very good movie, but Manny sort of resembles the Ape that can sign.........google, do your work........Amy was her name.........from here on out, I will only refer to Manny as "Amy".

[JoeChalupa]

Hell, you can get shot anytime around that area since it takes 45 minutes to drive 5 miles.

[PDBM2]

Hell, you can get shot anytime around that area since it takes 45 minutes to drive 5 miles.

^ This is true.

Whose genius idea was it to put up a traffic light everhy effing two blocks.

[1369]

Hell, you can get shot anytime around that area since it takes 45 minutes to drive 5 miles.

Yea, but we can't get carjacked all that easily since we've got gridlock.

[Spam]

I think we should call Dirties "pee wee" and he, and GIG, know why.

[johnsmith]

:lmao @ Amy.

Dude is just bitter because he looks like a hairy primate. I feel bad for him I wonder if he sends out some grunting moans before he mates. Thank god I'm not that ugly, no wonder he tries to sound smart.......its all he's got. Vocab rules.

Rack Amy and his know it all ways.


Do you think he's the silver back of the group?

[Spam]

Yeah bro you much have seen the pics :rolleyes

No need, 2Blonde said it all. :lmao

[Spam]

All she said was GiG beat me. Size didn't come into the statement. Nice try though.

Hey, don't blame me for your short comings.

[Spam]

Rounding up doesn't count.

[Melmart1]

How do these people not pay taxes if THEY HAVE TO WORK TO GET SAHA HOUSING?!?!?!

Seriously, some people only read what they want to. They are not getting FREE rent, they are paying 1/3 of their monthly salary to be there. Maybe its not what the rest of us would pay in total, but its the same percentage.

And the person afraid of getting shot driving through Stone Oak just because 64 families moved in near a golf course that you likely don't even play at is one of the dumbest of all.

When my mom got cancer and had to quit her job when I was 12, we were in low-income housing and on food stamps and all that other good stuff. Would you have been scared of me, or my cancer-ridden mother? Seriously, most of these families are single-mother families that are the result of divorce or deadbeat dads, and there is nothing to be afraid of- except ignorant fear itself.

[Spam]

Okay this thread has been officially hijacked.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

And the person afraid of getting shot driving through Stone Oak just because 64 families moved in near a golf course that you likely don't even play at is one of the dumbest of all.

Getting shot was an exaggeration .

My point is simply, why bring 'low income housing' to one of the most expensive parts of San Antonio to live in? There has to be other areas they can build in.

[Trainwreck2100]

Its easy math

poverty = higher probability of crime
.


Higher prob of blue collar crime, aint no minority convicted of fraud, they go away for armed robbery and things of that nature

[SA210]

How do these people not pay taxes if THEY HAVE TO WORK TO GET SAHA HOUSING?!?!?!

Seriously, some people only read what they want to. They are not getting FREE rent, they are paying 1/3 of their monthly salary to be there. Maybe its not what the rest of us would pay in total, but its the same percentage.

And the person afraid of getting shot driving through Stone Oak just because 64 families moved in near a golf course that you likely don't even play at is one of the dumbest of all.

When my mom got cancer and had to quit her job when I was 12, we were in low-income housing and on food stamps and all that other good stuff. Would you have been scared of me, or my cancer-ridden mother? Seriously, most of these families are single-mother families that are the result of divorce or deadbeat dads, and there is nothing to be afraid of- except ignorant fear itself.
Good post.

This is the same point I brought up earlier, but as you said, some people read what they want to.

Alot of times, some people just have no clue whatsoever what it's really like to be part of the working poor, absolutely no idea at all, even though many times they actually really think they do.

[MannyIsGod]

So we have 2 apartment complexes that are not well run, are infested with mold, and are generally undesirable at this time. If SAHA can get them cheap and this is a better investment for their money at this time, wtf are people going to bitch about? Because thats the bottom line. If its a good fiscal move, then its going to be done. People can bitch and moan all they want, but no judge is going to rule in favor of pissed off Stone Oak residents over 64 low income tenants.

[1369]

So we have 2 apartment complexes that are not well run, are infested with mold, and are generally undesirable at this time. If SAHA can get them cheap and this is a better investment for their money at this time, wtf are people going to bitch about? Because thats the bottom line. If its a good fiscal move, then its going to be done. People can bitch and moan all they want, but no judge is going to rule in favor of pissed off Stone Oak residents over 64 low income tenants.

But can they buy/operate them legally?

From Councilman Wolff:

Link (http://www.stoneoakinfo.com/soi/?q=node/629)


Real estate speculation is risky, and while I have confidence in SAHA’s ability to build and maintain affordable housing, I’m just as certain they should not be in the business of real estate speculation. This point is further illustrated by Texas Local Government Code 392.004 which states, “It is the policy of the state that a housing authority manage and operate its housing projects in an efficient manner to enable it to set rentals at the lowest possible rates consistent with providing decent, safe and sanitary housing and that a housing authority may not construct or operate a project for profit or as a source of revenue to a municipality or county.”

Emphasis mine

[Please_dont_ban_me]

So we have 2 apartment complexes that are not well run, are infested with mold, and are generally undesirable at this time. If SAHA can get them cheap and this is a better investment for their money at this time, wtf are people going to bitch about? Because thats the bottom line. If its a good fiscal move, then its going to be done. People can bitch and moan all they want, but no judge is going to rule in favor of pissed off Stone Oak residents over 64 low income tenants.


How is putting low income tennants in a high income neighborhood fiscally responsible?

If anything it'll drive down the property value of neighboring structures and hurt the bottom line at the neighboring businesses. Maybe not a lot, but I doubt it will HELP them. It's not fiscally responsible, it's charity.



Charity which can still be given...just not in the middle of Stone Oak.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Let me explain it to you another way.

ooh ooh ahhh ahhh eh ohh ohh *pounds chest*

Lmao.

That's so fucked up.

[MannyIsGod]

But can they buy/operate them legally?

From Councilman Wolff:

Link (http://www.stoneoakinfo.com/soi/?q=node/629)



Emphasis mineThats a good question. I'm not familliar with the legalities involved with SAHA taking over this type of property and what they would have to prove in order to do so legally. Speculation wouldn't be the case here, however, because it isn't as though SAHA would be planning on flipping the property in order to make a profit.

I guess it depends on whether or not profit would be defined as the facility making more money than it costs to operate or if they define it in a system wide manner. In otherwords, can this complex be used to subsidize other complexes SAHA may have that are losing money?

[MannyIsGod]

I just read this from a Stone Oak resident.

SIT REP: The grapevine is that this is all pre-election bullshit to get people fired up so chill it'll never happen. I was told in the remote possibility it would the schools would be immediately capped-Reagan already is- (because SAHA can't control what we do within our districts ), the job market on that side of town would become *ahem* limited to old applicants and of course they will learn the golden rule of life outside the ghetto: White people are nosy and call the cops- A LOT! and of course in dire emergency the ultimate trump card- Stone Oak will become another Shavano Park, Hollywood Park, etc.

Thought it was interesting.Yeah, that doesn't sound xenophobic at all. Good thing there is no racial stereotyping going on there. White people are nosy and call the cops eh? I guess Stone Oak has no hispanics and I guess all the new tenants would be brown or black because there are no poor white people. Nice.

[1369]

Thats a good question. I'm not familliar with the legalities involved with SAHA taking over this type of property and what they would have to prove in order to do so legally. Speculation wouldn't be the case here, however, because it isn't as though SAHA would be planning on flipping the property in order to make a profit.

I guess it depends on whether or not profit would be defined as the facility making more money than it costs to operate or if they define it in a system wide manner. In otherwords, can this complex be used to subsidize other complexes SAHA may have that are losing money?

What I believe he means by "speculation" is this


Alvarez explained that the revenue generated from the 577 market-rate leases will subsidize the 65 public housing units.

[MannyIsGod]

You know, if people want to have a legitimate beef with this situation, it should be along the lines of the tax exemption SAHA would get on the entire complexes which would cost NEISD money. Bitching about a handful of people moving in is fucking silly.

[MannyIsGod]

What I believe he means by "speculation" is thisThat can't be the case because thats how SAHA does business everywhere.

[Trainwreck2100]

Yeah, that doesn't sound xenophobic at all. Good thing there is no racial stereotyping going on there. White people are nosy and call the cops eh? I guess Stone Oak has no hispanics and I guess all the new tenants would be brown or black because there are no poor white people. Nice.


Of couse there are poor white people, turn on Springer for proof

[1369]

You know, if people want to have a legitimate beef with this situation, it should be along the lines of the tax exemption SAHA would get on the entire complexes which would cost NEISD money. Bitching about a handful of people moving in is fucking silly.

It's already started, Commissioner Larson weighed in with that fact in a letter to SAHA.

[MannyIsGod]

It's already started, Commissioner Larson weighed in with that fact in a letter to SAHA.If anyone knows how to use the tax codes to their benefit its rich people. Thats the biggest objection anyone can laydown right there. 200k a year is a lot of money to a school district and theres no way NEISD lets it go without a fight.

[Trainwreck2100]

You gotta think of the kids here, it's a better story if their projects are in the ghetto and they crawl out, so for them and their future rap career they're better off somewhere else.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Our lack of understanding about other classes, cultures and people reinforce our stereotypes every day about folks whom we know little about. We live in a culture of fear and it's pretty pathetic...


What most people don't realize is that the people who move into low-income housing are already in their communities.

And I have never seen a study that proves low-income housing drives down property values. I'm not saying there isn't one out there, but I have yet to read one.

[2centsworth]

I'm a long time Sonterra Resident who was at yesterdays meeting. Here are some highlights of what was discussed broken down in financial and emotional.


FINANCIAL
- The properties will cost SAHA $58 million
- The entire property will receive a tax abatement costing the state millions in loss tax revenues.
- The cost to NEISD will be $300k per year
- There were hard facts presented that showed other housing complexes that allowed subsidized housing saw considerable drops in occupancy and an overall deterioration of the property.

EMOTIONAL

- There were countless stories of people who worked their way up from poverty without public assistance and now live in stone oak. I'm one of those people.

- Most in stone oak want diversification but believe earning the American dream is better than welfare.

- HOWEVER, this is my personal opinion. Most people in that meeting yesterday need to look themselves in the mirror, because many of them receive welfare in the form of Medicare and Social Security on the backs of their children and grandchildren


There's a ton more to consider but those are some of the highlights.

[johnsmith]

I'm a long time Sonterra Resident who was at yesterdays meeting. Here are some highlights of what was discussed broken down in financial and emotional.


FINANCIAL
- The properties will cost SAHA $58 million
- The entire property will receive a tax abatement costing the state millions in loss tax revenues.
- The cost to NEISD will be $300k per year
- There were hard facts presented that showed other housing complexes that allowed subsidized housing saw considerable drops in occupancy and an overall deterioration of the property.

EMOTIONAL

- There were countless stories of people who worked their way up from poverty without public assistance and now live in stone oak. I'm one of those people.

- Most in stone oak want diversification but believe earning the American dream is better than welfare.

- HOWEVER, this is my personal opinion. Most people in that meeting yesterday need to look themselves in the mirror, because many of them receive welfare in the form of Medicare and Social Security on the backs of their children and grandchildren


There's a ton more to consider but those are some of the highlights.


Well then, looks like it won't make financial sense, what say you Amy?

[2centsworth]

Well then, looks like it won't make financial sense, what say you Amy?
Does it have to make financial sense or is it a social experiment?

Almost anything can be manipulated to make sense financially. You could argue the low income person would become higher income and would contribute more to society in the future.

[Das Texan]

I'm a long time Sonterra Resident who was at yesterdays meeting. Here are some highlights of what was discussed broken down in financial and emotional.


FINANCIAL
- The properties will cost SAHA $58 million
- The entire property will receive a tax abatement costing the state millions in loss tax revenues.
- The cost to NEISD will be $300k per year
- There were hard facts presented that showed other housing complexes that allowed subsidized housing saw considerable drops in occupancy and an overall deterioration of the property.

EMOTIONAL

- There were countless stories of people who worked their way up from poverty without public assistance and now live in stone oak. I'm one of those people.

- Most in stone oak want diversification but believe earning the American dream is better than welfare.

- HOWEVER, this is my personal opinion. Most people in that meeting yesterday need to look themselves in the mirror, because many of them receive welfare in the form of Medicare and Social Security on the backs of their children and grandchildren


There's a ton more to consider but those are some of the highlights.



Most in Stone Oak dont want diversification, unless its of their portfolios. See others can play the stereotype game also!

The vast majority of people in this nation recieve some type of public assistance of some type, as twocentsworth pointed out, or will recieve some type of public assistance.

If we are talking a grand total of 64 units in these two complexes then who cares? The application process will most likely be long and there will be many checks done to ensure there is no criminal risk in the people being placed. (Go ahead and go play stereotypes again, because you cannot predict crime in people just based on race and class and not call yourself sterotypical on these issues)

I've seen this done in other places in regards to public assistance and it runs fairly smoothly and there isnt really a problem anywhere.

Its all about NIMBYism as pointed out long ago and a classism that many have toward others.

As I think Manny pointed out, classism is the new racism.

If all these families were white nobody would have a problem until they found out they were also poor, then the whole charade would begin and this is essentially what this all is.

Regarding the tax abatements, its something that has long been done in this city, not exactly a new thing, and why the huge outrage now over this is beyond me.

NEISD would lose the tax monies, and thats something they will fight tooth and nail until their dying day.

Regarding the last point about occupancy rates going down and a property deteroiating...these two properties are going to have these same two issues regardless of SAHA buying the properties as things stand now. Sure rents are high, but I know that they were both having problems filling the units. When you dont have that rent coming in, you have to cut costs and its often on non essential maintenance.

[2centsworth]

Most in Stone Oak dont want diversification, unless its of their portfolios. See others can play the stereotype game also!

The vast majority of people in this nation recieve some type of public assistance of some type, as twocentsworth pointed out, or will recieve some type of public assistance.

If we are talking a grand total of 64 units in these two complexes then who cares? The application process will most likely be long and there will be many checks done to ensure there is no criminal risk in the people being placed. (Go ahead and go play stereotypes again, because you cannot predict crime in people just based on race and class and not call yourself sterotypical on these issues)

I've seen this done in other places in regards to public assistance and it runs fairly smoothly and there isnt really a problem anywhere.

Its all about NIMBYism as pointed out long ago and a classism that many have toward others.

As I think Manny pointed out, classism is the new racism.

If all these families were white nobody would have a problem until they found out they were also poor, then the whole charade would begin and this is essentially what this all is.

Regarding the tax abatements, its something that has long been done in this city, not exactly a new thing, and why the huge outrage now over this is beyond me.

NEISD would lose the tax monies, and thats something they will fight tooth and nail until their dying day.

Regarding the last point about occupancy rates going down and a property deteroiating...these two properties are going to have these same two issues regardless of SAHA buying the properties as things stand now. Sure rents are high, but I know that they were both having problems filling the units. When you dont have that rent coming in, you have to cut costs and its often on non essential maintenance.

you need to look in the mirror when calling other people racist because you're pretty hard core. btw, 64 to start when occupancy rates fall and the property starts to deteriorate 64 will turn into a whole lot more. It makes sense because the city won't have to advertise or worry about people not paying rent. They can put a low income tenant and get the tax payers to pay most of the rent.

[Buddy Holly]

Why would occupancy rates fall and why the fuck would the property start to deteriorate? Because 64 units will house lower income families? The same kind of lower income family you came from? What if one of them worked in Stone Oak but can't afford to live there, this is a great opportunity for them. This is definitely classism which is just an extension of racism.

[johnsmith]

Why would occupancy rates fall and why the fuck would the property start to deteriorate? Because 64 units will house lower income families? The same kind of lower income family you came from? What if one of them worked in Stone Oak but can't afford to live there, this is a great opportunity for them. This is definitely classism which is just an extension of racism.


I'm surprised that this is your stance on this issue BH.

[2centsworth]

Why would occupancy rates fall and why the fuck would the property start to deteriorate? Because 64 units will house lower income families? The same kind of lower income family you came from? What if one of them worked in Stone Oak but can't afford to live there, this is a great opportunity for them. This is definitely classism which is just an extension of racism.
Look at the facts/stats. I'm not telling you how I feel but what has happened in the past to other properties. If you would like to argue facts am in and I'm not predesposed to any one position.

[ploto]

I will admit that I did not read every post in this thread because it got so long, but do people have no clue of all the places where subsidized housing ALREADY exists in affluent areas of San Antonio. Someone said they would not shop in that area because of it- so I guess you have never been to Huebner Oaks. I even think there may be some subsidized housing in some of the apartments near UTSA and La Cantera. The stupidest part of the whole complaint is that the apartments are not even in Stone Oak and yet they are the people complaining. The mere existence of apartments at all impacts property values more than converting some of the units already there to subsidized housing.

As for crime- ask anyone who has ever lived in Elm Creek. The rich kids commit crime within their own gated community.

[2centsworth]

I will admit that I did not read every post in this thread because it got so long, but do people have no clue of all the places where subsidized housing ALREADY exists in affluent areas of San Antonio. less than 2% which is the argument for the purchase.




The stupidest part of the whole complaint is that the apartments are not even in Stone Oak and yet they are the people complaining. they overlook the Sonterra Golf Course. The Sonterra Country Club is the centerpiece of our community


The mere existence of apartments at all impacts property values more than converting some of the units already there to subsidized housing.These are high end luxury apartments. It's my understanding Steve Kerr lived there while he was building his house.



As for crime- ask anyone who has ever lived in Elm Creek. The rich kids commit crime within their own gated community.yes there is crime everywhere, but the areas that are densely populated with subsidized housing have exorbitantly higher crime rates.

[MannyIsGod]

Pete, I think the level of the apartments is debatable given the ratings they have on internet sites.

[ploto]

These are high end luxury apartments.
Sorry- Not THAT luxury. There are alot of new apartments in San Antonio that are much higher end than Talavera.

[2centsworth]

Pete, I think the level of the apartments is debatable given the ratings they have on internet sites.
they look absolutely beautiful from the exterior. The rents range from $800-$1800. I'm sure there are better apartments but these are going for $58 million bucks!

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

you need to look in the mirror when calling other people racist because you're pretty hard core. btw, 64 to start when occupancy rates fall and the property starts to deteriorate 64 will turn into a whole lot more. It makes sense because the city won't have to advertise or worry about people not paying rent. They can put a low income tenant and get the tax payers to pay most of the rent.


Why do you assume it will deteriorate? Just because they are poor?

It can and has worked in much, much more affluent neighborhoods(Highland Park, IL).

[2centsworth]

Why do you assume it will deteriorate? Just because they poor?

It can and has worked in much, much more affluent neighborhoods(Highland Park, IL).
we have Camelot and Sunburst apartments. Nevertheless, it's welfare out of countrol and it doesn't make fiscal sense.

[MannyIsGod]

If it doesn't make fiscal sense then I don't think they should do it.

:lol Btw Pete, it looks like you have choosen a side buddy.

[2centsworth]

If it doesn't make fiscal sense then I don't think they should do it.

:lol Btw Pete, it looks like you have choosen a side buddy.Given the facts, I'm against this idea. However, I have lots of ideas that do make fiscal sense and that would have 100 times the impact.

[scott]

If the Southside has some bookstores, this wouldn't be an issue.

[scott]

How about this for a stance: people shouldn't be given the opportunity to live outside of their means as some form of social welfare. What is the incremental social value created by putting people in high-end apartments in an upper-class section of town (by incremental, I mean versus putting them in less fancy apartments in some other part of town).

Then, let's compare that marginal benefit versus the marginal costs to taxpayers and the deadweight loss created by this silly idea. Methinks it'll be MC > MB.

[Economics professor mode deactivated.]

[Das Texan]

you need to look in the mirror when calling other people racist because you're pretty hard core. btw, 64 to start when occupancy rates fall and the property starts to deteriorate 64 will turn into a whole lot more. It makes sense because the city won't have to advertise or worry about people not paying rent. They can put a low income tenant and get the tax payers to pay most of the rent.


how am i being racist?

i dont think i ever called anyone racist, unless you are talking about discrimination of people based on class, which doesnt take skin tone into account, then sure.

[SequSpur]

None of this shit makes fiscal sense. It never has and it never will. The only reason Stone Oak doesn't want low or no income apartments in their neighborhood is because they think their crime will go up and their property value will go down. It's stupid, in the overall picture, it doesn't mean shit and it won't make a difference. They have domestic crime, robberies, theft and other shit just as much as anybody else.

[PM5K]

I think Dirties Robbed Me has said more ignorant shit in this thread alone than I've ever read in my entire lifetime...

[johnsmith]

I would venture to guess that most people that approve of this move don't live in Stone Oak and most people that are against it, do live in Stone Oak. So everyone that is for it, call it like it is, jealousy. You're pissed that your employers are all living the good life and you're stuck in other parts of this shitty town. That's all it is.

[JoeChalupa]

Jealousy probably does come into the issue and you can call it like it is.
But you can also call it prejudice by class from those who are against it.
But I could be wrong. The wife and I had a nice discussion about this issue yesterday evening. Again, good points from both sides.

[Das Texan]

I would venture to guess that most people that approve of this move don't live in Stone Oak and most people that are against it, do live in Stone Oak. So everyone that is for it, call it like it is, jealousy. You're pissed that your employers are all living the good life and you're stuck in other parts of this shitty town. That's all it is.


not at all.


my employer lives off 90 and even then, I'm an Independent Contractor so its not like he is my employer in the strictist sense of the word, but I digress there.


good job buying into more stereotypes. Stone Oak isnt the only area in this city with money. They like most others though, do their fair share of whining though about NIMBYISM, but its not mutually exclusive.

[johnsmith]

not at all.


my employer lives off 90 and even then, I'm an Independent Contractor so its not like he is my employer in the strictist sense of the word, but I digress there.


good job buying into more stereotypes. Stone Oak isnt the only area in this city with money. They like most others though, do their fair share of whining though about NIMBYISM, but its not mutually exclusive.


Eh, stereotypes have to come from somewhere.

[Dr.Phil]

Eh, stereotypes have to come from somewhere.

They come from within. You really need to ask yourself, "Self, why do I have these stereotypes?". Could be from your upbringing or the fact that in today's society the "material wealth" of a person means more than it should.

[Dr.Phil]

Like what. Low income = crime

Rich people don't want poor people living with them

Stop giving free shit to the poor

Manny is a monkey

Whats ignorant? Why don't you quote me or something before just saying stupid shit.

Feel free to give me a call. You've got some major issues that you really need to confront. 1-800-DUMBASS.

[Louae]

As a homeowner in Stone Oak, I am a bit perplexed as to why they chose these two complexes for low-income housing. For an area that is known for it's higher priced housing, it seems like an odd choice. Unfortunately, it would have an effect on property values.

That being said, I don't think it's fair to say that low income = dirtbags. While there are some people in the world who are lazy and have no ambition, there are many who have simply been dealt a weird hand and they're doing the best they can.

I don't think anybody would mind the low-income housing if all the people living there were law abiding, hardworking people. Unfortunately, that isn't reality.

[Phil E.Buster]

I don't think anybody would mind the low-income housing if all the people living there were law abiding, hardworking people. Unfortunately, that isn't reality.

That goes for the residents of Stone Oak as well.

[2centsworth]

They have domestic crime, robberies, theft and other shit just as much as anybody else.
check the crime statistics for the city for the past month... http://www.sanantonio.gov/sapd/DATA/pt20906.htm

I only found one for the 78258 (Sonterra) zip code.

[CyberBob]

I'm trying to drum up support in the newsroom to do more stories on this topic. You can help by adding a comment here... (http://community.woai.com/blogs/bth/archive/2006/11/01/1021774.aspx#comments)

You can also email our newsroom and let us know what you think - and also let us know if you'd like us to do more in-depth reporting on this issue. You can contact the newsdesk at [email protected].

Thanks!

[johnsmith]

and broke down el camino's and garage parties too.


.....and people that look like Amy from Congo, they are the worst type of low income residents............damn dirty apes.

[AmyIsGod]

Thats xenophobic BS

[johnsmith]

Thats xenophobic BS
:lol :lol :lol


I gotta hand it to Manny, he is one of the few that can take it just as well as he can dish it out.

[Crookshanks]

This little social project has already been tried in Castle Hills. Many years ago, the powers that be decided that the poor people should be moved into a richer area of town so they built a whole street of subdsidized duplexes just off Larkspur. You should see that area now - it's a slum. There are boarded up windows, broken down cars, and trash all over the place. It's a huge eyesore and a haven for criminal activity.

I can certainly understand the residents of Stone Oak using any means necessary (legally) to keep this from happening there.

[AmyIsGod]

Its just not right I believe the rich people should be forced to give their car to the poor for a portion of their paycheck, of course it'll be scale sensitive, and the rich people can hitchhike or prostitute their way to work. Just to see how racist they are. Don't worry though the poor people will take extra special care of the rich mans car. Definately no philly blunt scars on the leather upholstery. Black and Milds for everyone hooray!

Matter of fact the value of that car should and will rise.

[Kori Ellis]

This little social project has already been tried in Castle Hills. Many years ago, the powers that be decided that the poor people should be moved into a richer area of town so they built a whole street of subdsidized duplexes just off Larkspur. You should see that area now - it's a slum. There are boarded up windows, broken down cars, and trash all over the place. It's a huge eyesore and a haven for criminal activity.



That area is horrible.

Everytime we drive by there (which is often because someone we know well lives nearby) I can't believe how bad it is, so near to nice homes. It's really a true slum. There's so much trash piled outside in people's yards. There's board up houses and obvious drug use/selling going on. It's crazy.

[SpursWoman]

That area is horrible.

Everytime we drive by there (which is often because someone we know well lives nearby) I can't believe how bad it is, so near to nice homes. It's really a true slum. There's so much trash piled outside in people's yards. There's board up houses and obvious drug use/selling going on. It's crazy.


Eh, you're just being racist and stereo-typing those hard-working single mothers down on their luck. :spin

[AmyIsGod]

I'm offended by that last statement. Are you saying if you're down on your luck and a single hard working mom you don't deserve massive amounts of hand outs and a nice luxury apartment. Thats sooo fucked up. We are all equal, even the missing links of this world.

[SpursWoman]

Yes, I know. And they have strict screening processes for subsidized housing, so the residents of Castle Hills can rest easy.

[AmyIsGod]

Remember there is crime everywhere. One of those screening questions should have been.

Do you have inclinations to park non-running vehicles under the oak tree in your front yard?

1. Yes it looks nice thats my ride baby
2. No only really poor people do that.
3. Whats inclination?

[desflood]

Classic thread.

[AmyIsGod]

If poverty was mahjongg I'd have it cleared in no time. I rule.

[xrayzebra]

A little question: has anyone bothered to read the articles on Katrina folks that
moved into San Antonio? Just checking.

[Sigmund Freud]

You all are living in a dream world.

[Al Sharpton]

classism was here long before racisim.

Damn right it was and this shit just proves it ain't getting no better.

[bendmz]

I say ship them all the the damn north side... I am sick and damn tired of seeing them shit, piss, beg, and trash up the downtown area. Patty Raddle couldn't do shit with them, let Chip have a damn turn with them.....
Maybe he can surf the web durning the next meeting and get some answers :ihit

[braeden0613]

I say ship them all the the damn north side... I am sick and damn tired of seeing them shit, piss, beg, and trash up the downtown area. Patty Raddle couldn't do shit with them, let Chip have a damn turn with them.....
Maybe he can surf the web durning the next meeting and get some answers :ihit
good rational solution...send to the part of town thats actually nice...that will make the city look better

[bendmz]

good rational solution...send to the part of town thats actually nice...that will make the city look better

if I may ask, just what tourist attraction do we have on the north side ?
outside of Six Flags, but that's not really the north side..... how bout Rolling Oaks, oops, that's northeast..... hey I got it !!!!! US 281... :lmao :lmao

[Mark in Austin]

Wow. Where oh where will the wasps flee to next now that the colored people are coming to the suburbs?

All this over 64 apartments? Women crying? You would think they wanted to reserve 64 units for known sex offenders just released from prison based on the reaction.
__________________________________________________ ____________


All that being said, it doesn't make much financial sense, which leaves me with this conclusion: The owners of these complexes are going to make a mint off the sale. If I were a reporter, I would be investigating the link between the apartment owners, the housing authority, and the agency the housing authority reports to. Who did the owners contribute campaign cash to? Are there links between that cash and the housing authority? etc.

If people want to get all emotional, do it because the authority is at best wasting money, and at worst are incompetant or corrupt; not because 64 units in an area of well over 50,000 people will be subsidized.

[ChumpDumper]

All that being said, it doesn't make much financial sense, which leaves me with this conclusion: The owners of these complexes are going to make a mint off the sale.Getting out just as the real estate bubble is bursting is mighty convenient as well.

[gameFACE]

No offense to any Stone Oakers but they're worrying about the wrong thing. Instead of focusing on a small amount of SAHA housing they should worry about inadequate infrastructure and crappy decorated strip centers that merely give a "perceived" (as someone mentioned earlier) impression of a ritzy neighborhood.

Give Stone Oak ten years and it's going to look like like the shithole that was once known as The Great Northwest in the 80's. When I think upscale or upper class Stone Oak is not the first thing that comes to mind.

If you truly believe that SAHA residents are all jobless, criminal and non tax paying low lifes you better also believe that "rich" Stone Oakers are stuck up, racist and greedy fat fucks.

Personally, the Stone Oak area could use a few Taqueria Jalisco's. :hat

[Buddy Holly]

One of the apartment complexes in question:

http://xs208.xs.to/xs208/06444/apartmentcomplex-.PNG

BTW, both apartment complexes are outside of Stone Oak. So why is Stone Oak being mentioned with this argument so much?

[Buddy Holly]

Give Stone Oak ten years and it's going to look like like the shithole that was once known as The Great Northwest in the 80's.

That's like comparing apples with rocks.

One is an area of the city the other is a throughly masterplanned community.


When I think upscale or upper class Stone Oak is not the first thing that comes to mind.

The median househole income in Stone Oak is over 100,000 dollars. How is that not upper class?

[PM5K]

That's like comparing apples with rocks.

One is an area of the city the other is a throughly masterplanned community.



The median househole income in Stone Oak is over 100,000 dollars. How is that not upper class?

100K dollars a year isn't that much...

[Richard Cranium]

100K dollars a year isn't that much...

Huh?? Damn, I didn't realize 100K was low income these days.

[01Snake]

Huh?? Damn, I didn't realize 100K was low income these days.

If that $100k is the total income of both parents working than no, thats not a lot of money.

[Buddy Holly]

Newport Beach in California has a MHI of $83,109.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't care how its earned 100k is a lot of money now it may not amount to much in disposible income with 8 kids but it is what it is. Fucking 100 dollars is a lot of money. I love how people just talk out there asses about money here. How fucking unbelievably gay it is to say 100k isn't a lot of money.I hate agreeing with this fucker but he's right.

[gameFACE]

One is an area of the city the other is a throughly masterplanned community.
That sounds like a brochure.................


The median househole income in Stone Oak is over 100,000 dollars. How is that not upper class?
Didn't say it wasn't upper class. It's just not the first thing that comes to mind. If I made $100K i'd prefer to buy a bungalow in Monte Vista and renovate it than a house with masonry on three sides out on 1604.

[PM5K]

Well 100K dollars probably is a lot of money, but I doubt the median income in the area I live in is that low, and I don't know that I'd consider 100K a year to be upper class..

What's above upper class?

[MannyIsGod]

Well 100K dollars probably is a lot of money, but I doubt the median income in the area I live in is that low, and I don't know that I'd consider 100K a year to be upper class..

What's above upper class?Its definetly upper class. Only 2% of the people in this country make that much. I'm not sure what percentage of the households make that much, but I'm sure its not extremely high by any means.

[Buddy Holly]

That sounds like a brochure.................

Oh fuck you. It's the truth.



Didn't say it wasn't upper class. It's just not the first thing that comes to mind.

Nice contradiction.


If I made $100K i'd prefer to buy a bungalow in Monte Vista and renovate it than a house with masonry on three sides out on 1604.

Than do so. Others would rather buy a home in Stone Oak.

[desflood]

Well 100K dollars probably is a lot of money, but I doubt the median income in the area I live in is that low, and I don't know that I'd consider 100K a year to be upper class..

What's above upper class?
You're one of those rich brats I tried to avoid my whole childhood because they always had a way of making the rest of us feel like dirt-poor scum without even really trying...

:greedy :lol

[Buddy Holly]

What's above upper class?

The Dominion, Elm Creek, Olmos Park, Alamo Heights, Terrell Hills, Shavano Park.

[Jekka]

That sounds like a brochure.................


Didn't say it wasn't upper class. It's just not the first thing that comes to mind. If I made $100K i'd prefer to buy a bungalow in Monte Vista and renovate it than a house with masonry on three sides out on 1604.
Stone Oak is upper class any way you look at it - just because it isn't necessarily old money like some of Monte Vista doesn't mean it isn't upper class.

[gameFACE]

Oh fuck you. It's the truth.
:lmao You can take the boy out of the Soufside but you can't take the Soufside out of the boy........


Than do so. Others would rather buy a home in Stone Oak.
I can't I only make $99K..................

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah, 100K with wife and kids is probably not gonna get you into Stone Oak unless you lie on your mortgage application.

[gameFACE]

Stone Oak is upper class any way you look at it - just because it isn't necessarily old money like some of Monte Vista doesn't mean it isn't upper class. I already addressed that.

[CosmicCowboy]

back to the original topic...SAHA could take that same $50 million and buy a shitload of FEMA trailers after they finally clean up the Katrina mess...

http://www.ecoenquirer.com/fema-trailers.jpg

[Ginofan]

I don't see how any of this could be sensible...finance-wise. You could obtain more units at a even a middle-class area of town for less than the 58 million they want to use to buy just 65 units in the "upper-class" (is that what we're calling it?) area of town.

Just what kind of geniuses are running SAHA?

[MannyIsGod]

Well, if they use the revenue generated from the other units and use it to subsidize other SAHA projects then it would make sense. If you spend more and make more, then it makes sense so just because they are spending a lot wouldn't necessarily mean it wasn't the right thing to do.

In the end, I don't know what makes sense and I don't care enough to research it.

[Jekka]

Just what kind of geniuses are running SAHA?
If they are anything comparable to the people running HUD then I'd say that they most certainly are not geniuses.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

If I was playing a detective I'd see who on SAHA owns a sizeable interest in those two apartment complexes. Sounds like someone is cashing their chips.

[SpursWoman]

And was that 64 people? Or 64 families? Because if it's families damn ... that's like 500 people right there. :wow :lol

[MannyIsGod]

And was that 64 people? Or 64 families? Because if it's families damn ... that's like 500 people right there. :wow :lol:lol

I think it was 64 units. Some will be famlies, some not. But you know what poor people do for entertainment: They fuck. So families can be huuuuuuuuuuge.

[SpursWoman]

:lmao :lmao

[HoratioCain]

If I was playing a detective I'd see who on SAHA owns a sizeable interest in those two apartment complexes. Sounds like someone is cashing their chips.

They.....just made their first mistake.

[bendmz]

Hell Kevin Wolff is on it as of today. He'll put a stop to this shit !!!!! :ihit

[01Snake]

There are absolute SHIT houses in some areas of Stone Oak. Don't act like all the houses are $300K and up. Same goes with all those other neighbohoods mentioned earlier with the exception of Dominion. However, there are definately waaay more cheap ass, just-add-water houses in Stone Oak than the likes of Elm Creelk, Shavano Park, etc.