View Full Version : Chris Wilcox
Plays for the sonics and is exactly what we need. Make it happen!
timvp
11-04-2006, 12:29 AM
Plays no defense and is an average to below average rebounder.
Kori Ellis
11-04-2006, 12:30 AM
We need a guy who doesn't play any defense, doesn't work on his game in the offseason, and blocks less than 1/2 a shot a game for his career?
gospursgojas
11-04-2006, 12:32 AM
We had an over-paid, non-rebounding powderpuff last year.... We sent him to Toronto
He's a great rebounder for a long 3 (yeah, I know you're going to say he's a PF, but he can hang with perimeter guys kind of like Elson).I don't think pepole on here realize that the reason behind 9/10 of our losses is lack of rebounding and that Bowen is the WORST rebounding SF in the L (a role wilcox can fill), Manu is below average for a SG, and TD is not a monster in that dept anymore. We have to play extremely good offense to beat teams.
TDMVPDPOY
11-04-2006, 12:34 AM
seriously it doesnt matter if we get the best center in the nba on the team, his stats will decline to 5 5.
look at rasho n nazr who are prospering on other teams atm
4-1 downcourt is for ballhogs, fuck it.....
T Park
11-04-2006, 12:35 AM
I don't think pepole on here realize that the reason behind 9/10 of our losses is lack of rebounding and that Bowen is the WORST rebounding SF in the L,
They've only played 2 games....
Wilcox sucks. Move on.
Kori Ellis
11-04-2006, 12:36 AM
You have repeated in 3 threads now that you think Bowen is a horrible rebounder. So I think we know by now :lol But replacing him with Chris Wilcox, who isn't a small forward, doesn't defend, doesn't block shots, doesn't play team basketball, doesn't work out in the offseason isn't the answer.
T Park
11-04-2006, 12:38 AM
look at rasho n nazr who are prospering on other teams atm
They are propsering cause they have no pressure.
You have repeated in 3 threads now that you think Bowen is a horrible rebounder. So I think we know by now :lol But replacing him with Chris Wilcox, who isn't a small forward, doesn't defend, doesn't block shots, doesn't play team basketball, doesn't work out in the offseason isn't the answer.
You're too hung up on positions. He's agile enough to play on the wings and inside. His lack of D is just a matter of effort, but forget Wilcox.
The problem is that no team with subpar rebounding has ever won a championship. We got away with playing 3 very poor rebounders during the last 2 championships because we always had 2 monsters in the middle. Now, we don't even have one (TD is not grabbing them like he used to). If we're going to succeed, we either have to snatch another elite rebounder (and pop doesn't want to play 2 interior bangers anymore) or increase rebounding at all positions -- like most teams in the L have.
There's no problem with our offense or defense. It's just the rebounding.
Kori Ellis
11-04-2006, 12:50 AM
I'm not hung up on anything. You are repeating yourself in multiple threads, so I guess you are hung up on something. :lol
He's a power forward.
Yes, the Spurs need better rebounders. Hopefully one of the three centers will emerge and be a decent rebounder (7-8 rpg). Tim is going to get his 11-12 a game. Manu, Tim and Bowen all need to do more in that area.
Kori Ellis
11-04-2006, 12:52 AM
during the last 2 championships because we always had 2 monsters in the middle.
In the 2005 playoffs, Nazr averaged about 7 boards. Not exactly a monster.
RuffnReadyOzStyle
11-04-2006, 01:01 AM
He's a great rebounder for a long 3 (yeah, I know you're going to say he's a PF, but he can hang with perimeter guys kind of like Elson).I don't think pepole on here realize that the reason behind 9/10 of our losses is lack of rebounding and that Bowen is the WORST rebounding SF in the L (a role wilcox can fill), Manu is below average for a SG, and TD is not a monster in that dept anymore. We have to play extremely good offense to beat teams.
You just lost your credibility.
Duncan has averaged over 11rpg every season of his career, and over 12 in 5 seasons out of 9, which would put him in the top 10 rebounders in the league every season he has played.
Manu is an average rebounder at worst.
Bowen is a poor rebounder for his position, agreed.
Oh, and around here WE DO KNOW that rebounding and FT shooting are responsible for most of our losses.
BTW, Wilcox is a PF/C and far too slow to play on any SFs other than the big ones.
We don't need Chris Wilcox for 8mil per!
The way he's playing on Wilcox, give me Ronny Turiaf instead! :lol
Yes, I am hung up on this, because I'm pretty sure it's by far the biggest problem.
Rebounding is the most steady stat in basketball. You can either do it or you can't. It's wishful thinking to think that Bowen and Manu will improve, and I expect TD's numbers to decline slightly due to his decreased athletiscm. Elson, won't be enough to make up for our 3 poor rebounders. Butler might do it, but I haven't seen enough of him to determine if he can play 30+min. If the problem isn't solved, there's no way the Spurs are going to win a ring.
Assuming TD, Gino, TP are imovable, our options are A) get an elite rb -- maybe Butler, maybe a trade B) play Elson/Oberto with a perimeter player(mostly on d) who can board pretty well.
Bowen can still get plenty of minutes behind Manu and when matchups are favorable.
T Park
11-04-2006, 01:03 AM
Benching Bowen aint happenin so get over it quickly sparky.
SilverPlayer
11-04-2006, 01:03 AM
Bob hill just ran the Sean Elliot play against LAL. It got stuffed.
Kori Ellis
11-04-2006, 01:03 AM
Well Bowen will not be pulled out of the starting lineup, so one of your other options will have to work. Nazr wasn't a monster rebounder in 2005, and the Spurs won a title. Whoever starts at center needs to average 7-8 boards.
In the 2005 playoffs, Nazr averaged about 7 boards. Not exactly a monster.
Look at that number per minutes played. He can be considered an elite rebounder.
Kori Ellis
11-04-2006, 01:04 AM
Look at that number per minutes played. He can be considered an elite rebounder.
Number of minutes, stats per 48 doesn't matter for your comparison. You are saying that we need the amount of boards we had in 2005. His amount was 7 per game.
T Park
11-04-2006, 01:05 AM
Look at that number per minutes played
contort stuff to fit your arguement.
Hey folks, we have a politician on our hands.... :elephant
RuffnReadyOzStyle
11-04-2006, 01:06 AM
We need to bench stiffs like Oberto who seems to love to tap the ball to the other team, and put Butler in place behind Elson so he can learn on the fly.
Duncan has averaged over 11rpg every season of his career, and over 12 in 5 seasons out of 9, which would put him in the top 10 rebounders in the league every season he has played.
Yes, but he struggled in the playoffs last year and based on what I've seen so far this year, IMO he will be slightly less effective
RuffnReadyOzStyle
11-04-2006, 01:07 AM
I'd like Nero to retract his assertion that Timmy isn't an elite rebounder. He clearly still is.
T Park
11-04-2006, 01:08 AM
Wilcox sucks.
End of story.
Move on.
T Park
11-04-2006, 01:09 AM
Didn't Duncan have like 15 or more rebounds tonight or somethin?
RuffnReadyOzStyle
11-04-2006, 01:09 AM
The team struggled, and maybe Tim did a little with his plantar fascitis, but somehow he still grabbed 11 boards a game! Clearly, you are incorrect.
Kori Ellis
11-04-2006, 01:09 AM
Yes, but he struggled in the playoffs last year and based on what I've seen so far this year, IMO he will be slightly less effective
He averaged 11.7 boards last year against the Mavs in the playoffs. No exactly a struggle.
Number of minutes, stats per 48 doesn't matter for your comparison. You are saying that we need the amount of boards we had in 2005. His amount was 7 per game.
The combo of Nazr/Rasho which we played 90% of the time was elite in rebounding sense. That means that at any given time we had 2 great rebounders on the floor to make up for the 3 poor ones. Often, we had Horry in there too at the same time, giving us a good reb/min team. We no longer have that and it shows in the boxscores every night. We simply can't put a good rebounding team on the floor and we must if we want to win. What ideas do you have?
RuffnReadyOzStyle
11-04-2006, 01:10 AM
I think he had 12 tonight.
Kori Ellis
11-04-2006, 01:11 AM
The combo of Nazr/Rasho which we played 90% of the time was elite in rebounding sense
Rasho averaged 1.7 rebounds in the 2005 playoffs. Nazr averaged 6.7.
The combination was not elite in the rebounding sense.
My idea is that the combination of Oberto/Elson and Butler will probably average double that by season's end.
T Park
11-04-2006, 01:11 AM
What ideas do you have?
Leaving lazy piles of crap like Wilcox off the team is a start.
RuffnReadyOzStyle
11-04-2006, 01:12 AM
Rasho was a good rebounder? Not from where I'm sitting. Nazr was a good offensive rebounder, but not so hot defensively. What to do?
Make do and win games in other ways just as we did last year, I guess, and wait until we can put James White on the floor! :D
RuffnReadyOzStyle
11-04-2006, 01:13 AM
I think Butler can be a good rebounder, and Elson on his night. I'm still not sold on Oberto though - the guy has no lift.
T Park
11-04-2006, 01:14 AM
Rasho's 4 rebounds a game last year were steller, what you talkin bout willis!!
He averaged 11.7 boards last year against the Mavs in the playoffs. No exactly a struggle.
Reb/min is a better stat. TD always averages more rebounds in the playoffs because he gets more minutes.
He averaged 10.5 reb/38 minutes, which was subpar compared to previous years and we got killed in both series on the board. TD's my favorite player, but I just think he's lost a step.
T Park
11-04-2006, 01:15 AM
Reb/min is a better stat.
Says who, YOU?
Give me a break.
Rasho averaged 1.7 rebounds in the 2005 playoffs. Nazr averaged 6.7.
The combination was not elite in the rebounding sense.
My idea is that the combination of Oberto/Elson and Butler will probably average double that by season's end.
Rasho was barely used in the PO. We're talking about the reg season too. Bottom line, is our team went from being one of the best rebounding teams to one of the worst. If you don't think our loss at the 4 had something to do with that, then I dont' know what to say.
Elson is not a good rebounder compared to Nazr and Rasho. I don't think Oberto is a good enough defensive player to play. Butler might work, I dont' know.
RuffnReadyOzStyle
11-04-2006, 01:17 AM
He didn't rebound as well last year because he had PLANTAR FASCIITIS! SHeesh.
You just watch him average over 12 again this year, on about 36mins a game.
Kori Ellis
11-04-2006, 01:17 AM
Reb/min is a better stat. TD always averages more rebounds in the playoffs because he gets more minutes.
He averaged 10.5 reb/38 minutes, which was subpar compared to previous years and we got killed in both series on the board. TD's my favorite player, but I just think he's lost a step.
Go back to your other argument. You said Nazr/Rasho were elite in 2005 playoffs, when Rasho averaged less than 2 boards a game and Nazr averaged 6.7. So you are meaning to tell me that you don't think the Spurs three centers will top 8.5 rebounds per game this season?? Of course they will.
It's an issue. That's why the Spurs went out and upgraded at the center spot. So let the centers get acclimated to the system and see what they do. I imagine by season's end that the combo of Oberto/Butler/Elson will average about 15 boards a game. That's almost double your elite Nazr/Rasho combo from 2005 postseason.
Says who, YOU?
Give me a break.
Says Larry Brown, says Pop. It tells us a lot more about a players ability to rebound than rebound/game.
RuffnReadyOzStyle
11-04-2006, 01:18 AM
Yes we have a problem with rebounding.
No, Wilcox at 8mil a season is not the answer.
Kori Ellis
11-04-2006, 01:18 AM
Elson is not a good rebounder compared to Nazr and Rasho. I don't think Oberto is a good enough defensive player to play. Butler might work, I dont' know.
Elson is a much better rebounder than Rasho. Rasho sucked as a rebounder. Nazr was a solid rebounder. Elson isn't incredible but he's already better than Rasho.
Go back to your other argument. You said Nazr/Rasho were elite in 2005 playoffs, when Rasho averaged less than 2 boards a game and Nazr averaged 6.7. So you are meaning to tell me that you don't think the Spurs three centers will top 8.5 rebounds per game this season?? Of course they will.
It's an issue. That's why the Spurs went out and upgraded at the center spot. So let the centers get acclimated to the system and see what they do. I imagine by season's end that the combo of Oberto/Butler/Elson will average about 15 boards a game. That's double your elite Nazr/Rasho combo from 2005 postseason.
No, I don't think they will because only one of them will play at a time. Oberto and Elson are both worse than either Rasho/Nazr, and again, I think with Oberto's poor D he isn't even worth playing. Butler could pan out, but if he doesn't we need to increase rebounding at the other positions and Bowen is the one to go. He should still get 25min/game behind Manu/Park and sometimes playing with both of them when the matchups are favorable.
Kori Ellis
11-04-2006, 01:25 AM
Bowen is the one to go. He should still get 25min/game behind Manu/Park and sometimes playing with both of them when the matchups are favorable.
Well that won't happen. Bowen is going to start.
The rebounding is going to come from the center spot, not by picking up a guy that's a power forward and plugging him in Bruce's place at SF.
T Park
11-04-2006, 01:25 AM
Good god.
Bowen is not getting benched.
MOVE ON.
Zunni
11-04-2006, 01:28 AM
Dude, put down the pipe. Wilcox is incredibly lazy and can't even be bothered to defend in the post. He will NEVER chase a small man through screens and all around the court. If you plug Wilcox into Bowen's spot, the Spurs might win 45 games. Every team with even a decent wing scorer would positively ass-rape SA.
Elson is a much better rebounder than Rasho. Rasho sucked as a rebounder. Nazr was a solid rebounder. Elson isn't incredible but he's already better than Rasho.
Well, the stats don't support that. Rasho was a 1rb/4.2min, whereas Elson is abbout a 1/4.6 min.
I imagine by season's end that the combo of Oberto/Butler/Elson will average about 15 boards a game.
No way.
Kori Ellis
11-04-2006, 01:35 AM
No way.
6+5+4 (not in any order) It's not too difficult.
Okay, forget Wilcox. I didn't know he was lazy and had a bad attitude.
How about Reggie Evans? Possibly the best rebounder in the L and Nuggets barely play him, having Kmart, Nene, Camby there. Even Najera's getting more minutes than him. Has no offense and I'm not too sure about his defense.
We should definitely first give Butler lot's of minutes to see if he's going to fit and if not make a move before the deadline.
i'm just happy you guys don't run spurs team...by now we would be worst than thne knicks or at the wolves level maybe...
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