Todays Trivia Question:

[whottt]

Who is the Spurs All Time Leader in Post Season 3pt FG%?


Question?

[FromWayDowntown]

Among qualifiers? And who qualifies?

[4001 STEREO SPUR]

Maybe Elliott

[AOMrep]

Steve Kerr

[ChumpDumper]

Agendas rule.

[whottt]

Minimum of 40 made.

[whottt]

Agendas rule.


We'll see.

[FromWayDowntown]

if you're limiting it to players who have as many made 3pt FG as they do playoff games played, the leader is Brent Barry, who's percentage is around 45%.

If you're not limiting it that way, Charlie Ward has made the most 3pt FG without a miss (3) in Spurs playoff history.

[FromWayDowntown]

Barry is 45-100, 45%.

of course, if he misses his first two 3's in his next playoff appearance for the Spurs, he'll fall percentage points behind Vinny Del Negro

[whottt]

We'll go with the player listed in the Spurs media guide...

Wouldn't want to be accused of having an agenda...so I'll just let that be Pop's agenda.

[ChumpDumper]

Pop asked this question?

[FromWayDowntown]

Here's one for you: among Spurs with at least 40 playoff appearances, how many have averaged 20+ ppg for their playoff careers with the Spurs?

[Quasar]

Brent Barry 3pt master!

Hope he play a vital part in the championship this year, be it with his passing/playmaking or by his shooting!

[whottt]

Barry is 45-100, 45%.

of course, if he misses his first two 3's in his next playoff appearance for the Spurs, he'll fall percentage points behind Vinny Del Negro





minimum 40 made


Nice to see Brent, who as many pointed out, has no balls and refuses to shoot, has made more 3 pointers in 2 years than Vinny made in 6 or 7...

And keep in mind...Vinny was the prolific 3 shooter of our 2 starting guards.

[FromWayDowntown]

My bad on the 40 minimum and including Vinny.

I'm actually glad that Brent Barry makes his 3's at playoff time.

edit: curious that whottt chooses the 40 made minimum, though, since the Spurs media guide makes 10 made the minimum.

[SANANTOJAMES]

chuck person

[Leetonidas]

Here's one for you: among Spurs with at least 40 playoff appearances, how many have averaged 20+ ppg for their playoff careers with the Spurs?

I would have to say Tim Duncan and David Robinson only, but I'd probably be wrong. The Iceman too?

[FromWayDowntown]

I would have to say Tim Duncan and David Robinson only, but I'd probably be wrong. The Iceman too?

Yeah -- you'd be wrong, but you're close.

[whottt]

Here's one for you: among Spurs with at least 40 playoff appearances, how many have averaged 20+ ppg for their playoff careers with the Spurs?


2

Probably some guy who played in less than half of 123 games and another guy with over 400 more FGA than 1604 in 5 less than 123 games.

[whottt]

edit: curious that whottt chooses the 40 made minimum, though, since the Spurs media guide makes 10 made the minimum.


Well 10 seemed kind of cheap....

So I raised the standard, and low and behold....

[FromWayDowntown]

If I make the standard 9 made 3pt FG, the leader is (lo and behold) Devin Brown (9-17, .529) -- for whatever that's worth.

[whottt]

Pop asked this question?



So anyone asking a question has an agenda?

And you wonder why I call you a douchebag....

I'm going to remember you saying this.

[timvp]

Here is another trivia question:

Who had the lowest +/- of any Spur in last season's playoffs?

[ChumpDumper]

So anyone asking a question has an agenda? No.

Just you.

[timvp]

If I make the standard 9 made 3pt FG, the leader is (lo and behold) Devin Brown (9-17, .529) -- for whatever that's worth.

whatttt????

[whottt]

If I make the standard 9 made 3pt FG, the leader is (lo and behold) Devin Brown (9-17, .529) -- for whatever that's worth.

Well...if you want to get cheap about it...

[FromWayDowntown]

2

Probably some guy who played in less than half of 123 games and another guy with over 400 more FGA than 1604 in 5 less than 123 games.

Of course . . .

[whottt]

whatttt????


Hey...he's going below the media guide total to do that.

[FromWayDowntown]

Hey...he's going below the media guide total to do that.

Reducing by one, as opposed to multiplying the media guide standard by 4?

[Quasar]

Here's one for you: among Spurs with at least 40 playoff appearances, how many have averaged 20+ ppg for their playoff careers with the Spurs?2 - David Robinson & Duncan :D

Heh... haven't checked any stats

[timvp]

Here is another trivia question:

Who had the lowest +/- of any Spur in last season's playoffs?

Bump.

[whottt]

Of course . . .


Just out of curiosity...

If you were to take oh say...some player that had 123 games and look at his scoring average through his first, oh say, 57 games(still an official tally)...how many players do you think there would be?

And what do you think his average might be?

[timvp]

Reducing by one, as opposed to multiplying the media guide standard by 4?

:lol

Props to owning whottt in his own thread. That's classic :rollin

[Solid D]

Here is another trivia question:

Who had the lowest +/- of any Spur in last season's playoffs?

Big Shot Rob?

[Quasar]

Bump.Those not playing have a +/- of 0, right?

If so, then the worse +/- should be Nazr?

[whottt]

Bump.


Um...you do realize that no one takes +/- playoff stats very seriously due to the small sample size...particularly if the sample size doesn't even get you past the second round...

But even in a championship run...+/- figures are enormously misleading...

Case in point...the guy who had the lowest +/- total during our championship season was also the guy who made the winning block.

What have you proved?

[whottt]

:lol

Props to owning whottt in his own thread. That's classic :rollin



How did he own me in my own thread?

I asked a trivia question putting no one down...he turned it into a Drob hateathon..and a Devin Brown stretchathon.

[FromWayDowntown]

2 - David Robinson & Duncan :D

Heh... haven't checked any stats

whottt, in his own special way, already got the answer correct:

Probably some guy who played in less than half of 123 games -- aka George Gervin

and another guy with over 400 more FGA than 1604 in 5 less than 123 games -- aka Tim Duncan

David's career playoff scoring average was 18.1 ppg -- a number arbitrarily reduced by the changed emphasis of the Spurs' offense after 1998. David's average before 1999 was 23.4 ppg (1448 pts/62 games) -- slightly below Duncan's career 24.1 ppg and Gervin's 27.9 ppg.

[whottt]

Reducing by one, as opposed to multiplying the media guide standard by 4?


I raised the bar...to keep it from being cheap.

I am fully willing to use the official media guide...

Even though 10 is cheap...

By all means make it cheaper if you want.

[timvp]

Um...you do realize that no one takes +/- playoff stats very seriously due to the small sample size...particularly if the sample size doesn't even get you past the second round...

But even in a championship run...+/- figures are enormously misleading...

Case in point...the guy who had the lowest +/- total during our championship season was also the guy who made the winning block.

What have you proved?

:blah

Just say that it's Brent Barry. -32. Per minute, it was twice as bad as the great Nick Van Exel.

-32

[FromWayDowntown]

Just out of curiosity...

If you were to take oh say...some player that had 123 games and look at his scoring average through his first, oh say, 57 games(still an official tally)...how many players do you think there would be?

And what do you think his average might be?

I'm not sure why you arbitrarily draw a line in the middle of the 1998 playoff run. Take it through to the end of that run -- 62 games -- and then see my post above.

Even if I just counted the first 57 games that "some player that had 123 games" played and averaged his points, I'd still get 23.8, which would still be less than Tim Duncan's career scoring average in the playoffs.

[timvp]

And we both know that Bowen's +/- numbers are always going to be low because he comes out of the game when the other team's best perimeter player comes out of the game.

[SequSpur]

next trivia question..........

WGAF?

[Solid D]

Just for my own edification, what was Robert Horry's playoff +/- ?

[Quasar]

:blah

Just say that it's Brent Barry. -32. Per minute, it was twice as bad as the great Nick Van Exel.

-32Is the main component of the -32 cause by the stretch of games vs Sacramento?

Could be due to Bonzi - he killed all our guards. I guess that the +/- of all our SG/SF suffered in that period :D

[whottt]

Yeah? And Brent Barry got little or no run except when the Mavs were blowing our asses off the court...which was rare.

I'd be willing to be that many of our players had negative +/- figures for that playoffs...if only because the Mavs blew us out of the water and we trailed for virtually the entire series.

[timvp]

Just for my own edification, what was Robert Horry's playoff +/- ?

-6

Which is pretty logical seeing as he pretty much sucked throughout the playoffs. Luckily for him, he does enough little things to stay out of the Brent Barry range.

[whottt]

I'm not sure why you arbitrarily draw a line in the middle of the 1998 playoff run. Take it through to the end of that run -- 62 games -- and then see my post above.

Even if I just counted the first 57 games that "some player that had 123 games" played and averaged his points, I'd still get 23.8, which would still be less than Tim Duncan's career scoring average in the playoffs.


Yeah well...DRob didn't have Drob manning the paint with him...


Interstingly enough...prior to last seasons domination against the Mavs...Duncan's post season numbers had dropped lower than his regular season numbers in many categories.

[timvp]

Yeah? And Brent Barry got little or no run except when the Mavs were blowing our asses off the court...which was rare.

I'd be willing to be that many of our players had negative +/- figures for that playoffs...if only because the Mavs blew us out of the water and we trailed for virtually the entire series.

Uh Brent Barry started two games against the Mavs. He played 28 minutes in game three and 38 minutes in game four. He had plenty of time to show what he could do.

Well, I guess he did.

-32

[timvp]

Just for my own edification, what was Robert Horry's playoff +/- ?

In the 2005 players, Horry was a +112. That was second on the team. And again, that makes sense seeing as how well Horry played in the playoffs.

Barry in 2005? +17 ... behind the likes of Glenn Robinson and Beno Udrih :lol

"But he won the championship for us." -- whottt

[whottt]

-6

Which is pretty logical seeing as he pretty much sucked throughout the playoffs. Luckily for him, he does enough little things to stay out of the Brent Barry range.


Are you sure you got the right number?

I show Bowen, Oberto and Nick the Quick as all having a worse +/- than Barry.


Not that it matter with that small of a sample size.

[whottt]

Uh Brent Barry started two games against the Mavs. He played 28 minutes in game three and 38 minutes in game four. He had plenty of time to show what he could do.

Well, I guess he did.

-32


Pshaaaw... so did the rest of the team.

Maybe we should have put him on Dirk...

Couldn't have hurt worse could it?

[timvp]

Barry in 2005? +17 ... behind the likes of Glenn Robinson and Beno Udrih :lol


If you extrapolate Glenn Robinson's minutes to that of Barry's, he would have been a +170. Do the same to Beno and he was +80.

[whottt]

I literally have no clue why you are emphasizing +/- over such a small sample size....


Just the fact that Glenn Robinson ranks high in it should tell you something is screwed up...he played in one damn game.

[timvp]

Are you sure you got the right number?

I show Bowen, Oberto and Nick the Quick as all having a worse +/- than Barry.


Not that it matter with that small of a sample size.

http://www.82games.com/0506/playoffs/0506SAS1.HTM

-32 clear as day.

[timvp]

I literally have no clue why you are emphasizing +/- over such a small sample size....


Just the fact that Glenn Robinson ranks high in it should tell you something is screwed up...he played in one damn game.

Small sample size in a championship run?

[timvp]

I literally have no clue why you are emphasizing +/- over such a small sample size....


Just the fact that Glenn Robinson ranks high in it should tell you something is screwed up...he played in one damn game.

What's the excuse for Beno?

[whottt]

http://www.82games.com/0506/playoffs/0506SAS1.HTM

-32 clear as day.


Interesting...it seems you've also discovered that Manu>Duncan

Props :tu

[timvp]

Other than Bowen, +/- is a pretty damn good indication of the true value of a player. Barry has had two sub par playoff +/- years. It can't just all be a coincidence.

[FromWayDowntown]

To add a little fuel to the oven. . . .

Spurs +/- for 2006 WCSF v. Dallas

+16 Ginobili
+10 Duncan
+4 Finley
EVEN Udrih
-6 Nesterovic
-11 Van Exel
-12 Oberto
-15 Parker
-19 Mohammed
-27 Bowen
-39 Horry
-41 Barry

[timvp]

Interesting...it seems you've also discovered that Manu>Duncan

Props :tu

Manu had a higher +/- in the 2005 championship run and last year in the playoffs. Manu plays limited minutes (at least compared to Duncan), so it's to be suspected that his energy bursts give him great +/- numbers. That and Manu is a killer playoff player.

[whottt]

Well I know something right now....I know Manu can tear it up...

But don't even try and say he played better than Duncan against the Mavs...

Duncan dominated the Mavs and was pretty much the only thing keeping us in that game.

[timvp]

To add a little fuel to the oven. . . .

Spurs +/- for 2006 WCSF v. Dallas

+16 Ginobili
+10 Duncan
+4 Finley
EVEN Udrih
-6 Nesterovic
-11 Van Exel
-12 Oberto
-15 Parker
-19 Mohammed
-27 Bowen
-39 Horry
-41 Barry

FromWayDowntown, I demand you to stop shading the truth. Brent Barry only played 38 minutes in Game 4. That is why he kept throwing the ball away and sucked late in the game. How is a player supposed to produce with such limited minutes?

[timvp]

Well I know something right now....I know Manu can tear it up...

But don't even try and say he played better than Duncan against the Mavs...

Duncan dominated the Mavs and was pretty much the only thing keeping us in that game.

Again, Duncan had to play 41 minutes per game. Manu could only man up 34 minutes. Manu can light it up when he's out there. That's always been the case.

Plus, Duncan had to play with Manu's backup so his +/- numbers got lowered :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

FromWayDowntown, I demand you to stop shading the truth. Brent Barry only played 38 minutes in Game 4. That is why he kept throwing the ball away and sucked late in the game. How is a player supposed to produce with such limited minutes?

timvp, do you mean that game in which he played at -16?

source: Popcorn Machine Game Flows (http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20060515&game=SASDAL)

[whottt]

It's too small of a sample size because the rotation, especially the way Pop coaches in the playoffs...are way out of whack.

Secondly....

I never claimed Barry played good against the Mavs...in fact I said he sucked in that series bad and I ripped him for it...but he never got on the court to close out games in that series.

And the funny thing is...you guys were the ones saying he turned the corner after he was nearly traded...I said I didn't like his play as much, particularly against the Mavs.

[whottt]

FromWayDowntown, I demand you to stop shading the truth. Brent Barry only played 38 minutes in Game 4. That is why he kept throwing the ball away and sucked late in the game. How is a player supposed to produce with such limited minutes?

C'mon...Pop hadn't used him except as a backups backups and then he throws him out there to the Pirrahnas that are tearing our whole team a new hole.

It was a feeding frenzy against our D...

[timvp]

C'mon...Pop hadn't used him except as a backups backups and then he throws him out there to the Pirrahnas that are tearing our whole team a new hole.

It was a feeding frenzy against our D...

Barry played 25 minutes in Game 2 and 27 minutes in Game 3. Backups backups?

[FromWayDowntown]

Barry played 25 minutes in Game 2 and 27 minutes in Game 3. Backups backups?

He also started Game 3 (as was previously mentioned, IIRC).

I suppose that a backup's backup could, in some twisted way, be a starter.

[Mr. Body]

Wow, this debate is as fascinating as watching midgets wrestle.

[FromWayDowntown]

Yeah, in the distorted world that is this forum, I'm now fueling arguments against Brent Barry when, in real life, I've wholly supported him and think (on the whole) that he's been a positive addition to this team.

In the end, I'm pretty sure the Spurs still lost to the Mavs in 7 games.

The trivia question drew me in.

[timvp]

It's too small of a sample size because the rotation, especially the way Pop coaches in the playoffs...are way out of whack.

A championship run is 1200 minutes. That's plenty of time to get a good read on +/- numbers.

In the 2005 playoffs, the +/- order was Ginobili, Horry, Duncan, Parker, Udirh. In the 2006 playoffs, the +/- order was Ginobili, Duncan, Parker, Udrih.

It can't be coincidence that the order comes out exactly the same except for the fact that Horry fell off. I'd say even two rounds is plenty of time to figure out who was good and who wasn't by looking at the +/- stats.


Secondly....

I never claimed Barry played good against the Mavs...in fact I said he sucked in that series bad and I ripped him for it...but he never got on the court to close out games in that series.

Did you watch Game 3? Barry played the final 9 minutes of the game. Did you watch Game 4? Barry played the entire overtime.

Whottt are you talking about?

[FromWayDowntown]

In the 2005 playoffs, the +/- order was Ginobili, Horry, Duncan, Parker, Udirh. In the 2006 playoffs, the +/- order was Ginobili, Duncan, Parker, Udrih.

It can't be coincidence that the order comes out exactly the same except for the fact that Horry fell off. I'd say even two rounds is plenty of time to figure out who was good and who wasn't by looking at the +/- stats.

Not to oversimplify things, but perhaps one could argue that Horry's fall off is the ultimate difference between 2005 and 2006.

Just a thought.

[whottt]

Backups backups..during the latter half of the regular season...


All Barry would have had to have done to get a really shitty +/- was to have been on the court for the early part of game 7 when the Mavs blew us the fuck out...


The funny thing is...I am not defending his play against the Mavs...but he didn't get court time during the late part of that game.

[whottt]

A championship run is 1200 minutes. That's plenty of time to get a good read on +/- numbers.

In the 2005 playoffs, the +/- order was Ginobili, Horry, Duncan, Parker, Udirh. In the 2006 playoffs, the +/- order was Ginobili, Duncan, Parker, Udrih.

It can't be coincidence that the order comes out exactly the same except for the fact that Horry fell off. I'd say even two rounds is plenty of time to figure out who was good and who wasn't by looking at the +/- stats.



Did you watch Game 3? Barry played the final 9 minutes of the game. Did you watch Game 4? Barry played the entire overtime.

Whottt are you talking about?


Ok well one of those was a close loss and the other was OT loss....

And he choked in that OT game....I readily admit it. Passingwise.

What is your problem? You blaming him for a win?

Did he get to do it in game 7?

Again...I am not defending his play against the Mavs.

[Obstructed_View]

And what does any of this have to do with Barry passing up wide open threes during his shooting slump?

[whottt]

C'mon...Pop hadn't used him except as a backups backups


This really isn't that hard to understand....I am not talking about the playoffs, I am talking about the regular season.

[Kori Ellis]

If the Spurs played everyday, then we wouldn't get to see these great debates on the off days. :drunk

[whottt]

I see what screwed TimVP and FWDT up...

This quote right here:


Yeah? And Brent Barry got little or no run except when the Mavs were blowing our asses off the court...which was rare.

That was sarcasm....I guess ya'll watched a diff series though. To me it was either getting blown off the court by the Mavs or barely beating them. Never us blowing them out.


That doesn't change the fact that it is a small sample size...

Go ahead and but Beno and Bigg Dogg over Barry in 05...be my guest.

[whottt]

And what does any of this have to do with Barry passing up wide open threes during his shooting slump?



Not shooting when you suck = having no balls[/Spurfan]

Shooting like Jordan when you suck = Spurs hero 4eva

[timvp]

Not to oversimplify things, but perhaps one could argue that Horry's fall off is the ultimate difference between 2005 and 2006.

Just a thought.

I think that is a very safe thing to say. If Horry played like he did in 2005 in last year's run, the Spurs easily win the championship. People blame small ball but Pop tried to use Horry against the Mavs. Horry just sucked and Pop had to go somewhere else.

Phoenix without Amare and that Heat team would have been an eaiser path than the Suns with Amare and the returning champion Pistons the year before.

[timvp]

Backups backups..during the latter half of the regular season...

So he played poorly in the playoffs because he didn't play enough in the regular season? Got it :dizzy


All Barry would have had to have done to get a really shitty +/- was to have been on the court for the early part of game 7 when the Mavs blew us the fuck out...

Yet, that wasn't the case.


The funny thing is...I am not defending his play against the Mavs...but he didn't get court time during the late part of that game.

You mean when the Spurs were playing near perfect basketball to come back from a 20 point deficit? You wanted Mr. -32 out there?

[whottt]

Bah...

Horry sucked the first half of game 5 VS Detroit...Sucked bad.

Horry also didn't get rested as much that season as he did his first year and last year...Horry had to play because of Duncan and Rasho being injured.

I see nothing to indicate that over-resting him helps.

And if Horry wasn't on the court for the final 5 minutes of playoff games like last year his career would look much different...as that is the period where just about all of his greatest moments have come.

In 95 against us, he only scored one basket...just so happened to be the game winner.

[whottt]

So he played poorly in the playoffs because he didn't play enough in the regular season? Got it :dizzy

Pop switched his role....




Yet, that wasn't the case.




You mean when the Spurs were playing near perfect basketball to come back from a 20 point deficit? You wanted Mr. -32 out there?


Might have been nice to try and get him some shots in the OT since he has never missed a big one like that yet in his Spurs career.

[whottt]

Ok TimVP...you convinced me...Barry sucked against the Mavs.

Props :tu

:smokin

[timvp]

Ok well one of those was a close loss and the other was OT loss....

And he choked in that OT game....I readily admit it. Passingwise.

What is your problem?

What is my problem? You just said Barry didn't get to play late in games. I was just pointing out that your statement was wrong. Don't get mad at me ... get mad at your Tivo.


Did he get to do it in game 7?

He played 17 minutes in Game 7. He was 0-for-2 with a turnover. You wanted Pop to keep going back to that dried up well? :lol

[timvp]

Might have been nice to try and get him some shots in the OT since he has never missed a big one like that yet in his Spurs career.

Um ... Barry missed all his shots in the Game 4 overtime. Missed that, too?

[whottt]

What is my problem? You just said Barry didn't get to play late in games. I was just pointing out that your statement was wrong. Don't get mad at me ... get mad at your Tivo.

Actually lmao...I didn't save any of those games. I deleted all of them after that series was over and have no intention of ever watching them again.




He played 17 minutes in Game 7. He was 0-for-2 with a turnover. You wanted Pop to keep going back to that dried up well? :lol


What had Brent Barry shot through the early part of that game against Phoenix?

What had Robert Horry shot through the first 17 minutes of game 5 Detroit?

And what were Stephen Jackson's numbers though the first 17 minutes of game 6 Nets?


Just tell me when Barry has missed those kinds of shots...then tell me how many Finley missed in that OT.

[whottt]

Um ... Barry missed all his shots in the Game 4 overtime. Missed that, too?

Were we eliminated after game 4?

No we were not.

[timvp]

Actually lmao...I didn't save any of those games. I deleted all of them after that series was over and have no intention of ever watching them again.

Did you watch them in the first place?



Just tell me when Barry has missed those kinds of shots...then tell me how many Finley missed in that OT.

Finley missed one shot in overtime in Game 7.

Oops.

[whottt]

I just can't believe you wouldn't want the greatest post season 3 shooter in Spurs history getting some shots in that situation....or at least being on the court to help Duncan.

[whottt]

Did you watch them in the first place?




Finley missed one shot in overtime in Game 7.

Oops.


And it was an important one wasn't it?

I still call BS...I remember Finley going cold at the end of that game and picking up an assload of fouls.

[timvp]

Were we eliminated after game 4?

No we were not.

What elimination game did Barry ever hit a shot in the fourth quarter? Or the second half?

Question.

[timvp]

I still call BS...I remember Finley going cold at the end of that game and picking up an assload of fouls.

Finley didn't have a foul in overtime. :lol

Need me to send you the DVDs so you can start over in this thread?

[whottt]

What elimination game did Barry ever hit a shot in the fourth quarter? Or the second half?

Question.


That's too much work....

Edit: Right now

[whottt]

Finley didn't have a foul in overtime. :lol

Need me to send you the DVDs so you can start over in this thread?


If he didn't get any fouls in OT then he got an assload of them in the 4th...

[timvp]

I just can't believe you wouldn't want the greatest post season 3 shooter in Spurs history getting some shots in that situation....or at least being on the court to help Duncan.

Hey, I'm all for the return of Devin Brown.

:smokin

[whottt]

Now come on Devin never did shit. Except that fucking choke against the Rockets.

[whottt]

How about we put a wager on this?

Say...Chris Paul, Greg Oden and Ian Mahnimi VS Adrew Bynum?

That I can find Barry hitting a shot in an elimination game 4th quarter or second half?

[timvp]

If he didn't get any fouls in OT then he got an assload of them in the 4th...

I'm not going to rewatch the whole game to look for personal fouls on Michael Finley :lol

Who hit the shot with the Spurs down four with 1:45 to go in the fourth?

Question.

[timvp]

Now come on Devin never did shit. Except that fucking choke against the Rockets.

Spurs vs. Lakers in the 2004 playoffs. Don't worry, I'll send you that DVD too.

[whottt]

That's AJ type clutch...lame.

[whottt]

Spurs vs. Lakers in the 2004 playoffs. Don't worry, I'll send you that DVD too.



Yeah when we were getting blown out by 30.

You are a masochist for saving any of those games...

[timvp]

How about we put a wager on this?

Say...Chris Paul, Greg Oden and Ian Mahnimi VS Adrew Bynum?

That I can find Barry hitting a shot in an elimination game 4th quarter or second half?
I'm not talking about his Sonics days.

[timvp]

That's AJ type clutch...lame.

Championship shot clutch?

Hang that number 6.

:fro

[whottt]

Lame...

Edit Lame about the Sonics days.

Ok Clippers and Spurs days then.

[whottt]

Ok...Barry hit shots in the second half in 05 in games to eliminate the Nuggets and Suns.

And in 06 to eliminate the Kings.

I belive Messers Paul, Oden and Mahimi like to fly first class :smokin

[timvp]

But why didn't Barry ever get to finish a game against the Mavs? And how come Finley kept fouling people in overtime?

[whottt]

But why didn't Barry ever get to finish a game against the Mavs? And how come Finley kept fouling people in overtime?


I still don't get what you are arguing...I said he sucked against the Mavs...I said it at the time, and you have criticized me for it...That one pass he made in one of those games killed us. But that has happened to other guys too...

As for whether or not he could have made a difference in game 7?

Well it'll always be speculation won't it? His Spurs history shows he probably would have.

But what can be confirmed is that not giving him that chance was a loss.

[ChumpDumper]

Did this thread postpone the grades from the Knicks game?

Way to go, hootie.

[T Park]

As for whether or not he could have made a difference in game 7?



He sucked in game 7 too, give me a Break....

[polandprzem]

What is the question?

[Jimcs50]

What former Washington Redskin number 1 draft pick just won a seat in the US Congress from the state of North Carolina?

[Obstructed_View]

Not shooting when you suck = having no balls[/Spurfan]

Shooting like Jordan when you suck = Spurs hero 4eva
First of all, "when you suck" to you apparently means when shots don't go in. You obviously don't think Barry sucks now, since he's making shots. How exactly is a shooter supposed to know if a shot is going to go in before he takes it, Kreskin?

How does a shot that isn't taken even have a chance to go in? The Spurs' motion offense means five guys working to get open opportunities for the shooters when the defense breaks down. Not taking the open shot is a much bigger sin than taking it and missing it.

When you are a free agent acquisition who was perennially at the top of the league in three point percentage, "when you suck" ACTUALLY means when you pass up a three pointer in the flow of the offense. If you miss it, the defenders still have to respect that you are going to pull the trigger. Once you start passing them up, they know they can collapse down on the post.

Finley takes a lot of shots, some downright Maverickian bad shots, and currently misses, but he's trying to shoot his way out of a slump. I have no problem with that, and neither should you.

Barry was in a shooting slump, too, and didn't take a lot of shots, and passed up lots of good shots. Trying to perimeter pass your way out of a shooting slump when you were signed as a sharpshooter is stupid. You typically tell a shooter to shoot when he's open, even if he's not shooting well because it's a mathematical certainty that high percentage shooters taking wide open in-the-flow shots are going to score so long as they KEEP TAKING THE SHOTS. Barry didn't, and it took him an offseason to get out of it.

How do you think Barry spent the offseason: Taking a lot of shots, or making a lot of passes?

How many open three opportunities has Barry passed up so far? I'd bet the answer is close to zero. As long as he KEEPS TAKING THEM even if they don't go in, he'll be fine.

[Obstructed_View]

What former Washington Redskin number 1 draft pick just won a seat in the US Congress from the state of North Carolina?
Heath Shuler

[Jimcs50]

Heath Shuler


:smokin

[1Parker1]

:lol Damn that was an entertaining read. Props to Whott and Timvp.

Should this be considered a battle blog, Kori?? :smokin

[whottt]

First of all, "when you suck" to you apparently means when shots don't go in. You obviously don't think Barry sucks now, since he's making shots. How exactly is a shooter supposed to know if a shot is going to go in before he takes it, Kreskin?

How does a shot that isn't taken even have a chance to go in? The Spurs' motion offense means five guys working to get open opportunities for the shooters when the defense breaks down. Not taking the open shot is a much bigger sin than taking it and missing it.

When you are a free agent acquisition who was perennially at the top of the league in three point percentage, "when you suck" ACTUALLY means when you pass up a three pointer in the flow of the offense. If you miss it, the defenders still have to respect that you are going to pull the trigger. Once you start passing them up, they know they can collapse down on the post.

Finley takes a lot of shots, some downright Maverickian bad shots, and currently misses, but he's trying to shoot his way out of a slump. I have no problem with that, and neither should you.

Barry was in a shooting slump, too, and didn't take a lot of shots, and passed up lots of good shots. Trying to perimeter pass your way out of a shooting slump when you were signed as a sharpshooter is stupid. You typically tell a shooter to shoot when he's open, even if he's not shooting well because it's a mathematical certainty that high percentage shooters taking wide open in-the-flow shots are going to score so long as they KEEP TAKING THE SHOTS. Barry didn't, and it took him an offseason to get out of it.

How do you think Barry spent the offseason: Taking a lot of shots, or making a lot of passes?

How many open three opportunities has Barry passed up so far? I'd bet the answer is close to zero. As long as he KEEPS TAKING THEM even if they don't go in, he'll be fine.


Um...there's no denying he shot at a disappointing PCT(for him) but I'd point out he was just 4 or 5 3 pointers short of being a 40% 3 shooter that year.

Furthermore...it's typical for guys not used to playing D to struggle their first season here...Barry's not the first.


Additionally, the guy had never been used exclusively as a spot up shooter before, always as a combo guard, almost asways on uptempo teams that requires snappy passing even in their half court sets to get open.

It was just an adjustment...I saw Barry's struggles being when his role was reduced to just spot up shooter, due to the better than expected performance of Beno.

Point is...he did still help the team.

And lastly...yes, he still makes those WTF passes that catch his teamates off guard, in fact he made one to Elson against the Knicks...and he still looks most comfortable shooting transition threes and playing uptempo.

You notice Pop usually plays him when he's wanting to get up and down the court.

[FromWayDowntown]

Alright, here's some actual trivia:

There were 12 Spurs on the active roster for the 1999 NBA Finals. Eleven of those Spurs played at least 1 minute in the Finals series. One did not. Who was he?

[whottt]

Steve Kerr?

[Obstructed_View]

Um...there's no denying he shot at a disappointing PCT(for him) but I'd point out he was just 4 or 5 3 pointers short of being a 40% 3 shooter that year.

Furthermore...it's typical for guys not used to playing D to struggle their first season here...Barry's not the first.


Additionally, the guy had never been used exclusively as a spot up shooter before, always as a combo guard, almost asways on uptempo teams that requires snappy passing even in their half court sets to get open.

It was just an adjustment...I saw Barry's struggles being when his role was reduced to just spot up shooter, due to the better than expected performance of Beno.

Point is...he did still help the team.

And lastly...yes, he still makes those WTF passes that catch his teamates off guard, in fact he made one to Elson against the Knicks...and he still looks most comfortable shooting transition threes and playing uptempo.

You notice Pop usually plays him when he's wanting to get up and down the court.

I can't disagree with any of that. I don't even mind the WTF passes on occasion, but I will NEVER get angry at Barry for taking a wide open shot, even if it doesn't go in. That was my point. He's not apples for apples with Finley on that front.

Your point about percentage is exactly right on. He was a few passed up wide open threes from being a 40% shooter, but it's a far cry from the 45% he shot his last year in Seattle. Ray Allen, on his best day, doesn't give Brent Barry as many wide open looks as Tim Duncan does. We all knew Barry could fill it up from outside. You need only look at his percentage this year to see how damn good he is when he just lets it go!

I thought Barry played good defense, hustled and improved the team every time he was on the floor. He's also been MORE likely to hit a shot in the clutch, which is a great thing to have. The only complaint I ever had of him is that he didn't always pull the trigger, and that's only because I believe that it was due to lack of confidence.

[Obstructed_View]

Rasho Nesterovic :)

[Texas_Ranger]

Kerr

[polandprzem]

Alright, here's some actual trivia:

There were 12 Spurs on the active roster for the 1999 NBA Finals. Eleven of those Spurs played at least 1 minute in the Finals series. One did not. Who was he?

Perdue

[polandprzem]

Steve Kerr?

Kerr was a backup

[whottt]

Gerard King?

[polandprzem]

Gerard King?
was playing


It was Will :rolleyes

[polandprzem]

Yes it was will.

Why are you surprized that I answered correctly?

[FromWayDowntown]

Yes, it was Will Perdue.

[wildbill2u]

Who is the Spurs All Time Leader in Post Season 3pt FG%?


Question?
I'm gonna say Duncan because I remember he shot one once and made it.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm gonna say Duncan because I remember he shot one once and made it.

Good guess. He's made 2 others in fact. Of course, he's also missed 20 of the 23 playoff 3's that he's taken.

[ShoogarBear]

Before I even opened this thread, I knew the answer to the question was going to be either David Robinson, Brent Barry, or Avery Johnson.

[whottt]

Before I even opened this thread, I knew the answer to the question was going to be either David Robinson, Brent Barry, or Avery Johnson.


You're smart like that ShoogarBear. :tu


Did also you forsee the brutal and biased assault that TimVP and FWDT would attempt on me for merely asking a harmless trivia question? *sniff*

[ShoogarBear]

You're smart like that ShoogarBear. :tu


Did also you forsee the brutal and biased assault that TimVP and FWDT would attempt on me for merely asking a harmless trivia question? *sniff*If the answer was DRob: minimal controversy.

If the answer was Barry: timvp would jump in.

If the answer was AJ: I would have to play, probably timvp, too.

The fact that you got FWD up against you should be a clue that you broke some basic tenet of logic.

[whottt]

False...FWDT think he's logical...I am logical.

[polandprzem]

Arguing based on +/- was realy funny

[whottt]

Besides...FWDT and I have some pre-existing general emnity just on the basis of his incorrect stance towards David Robinson V Hakeem.

[whottt]

Arguing based on +/- was realy funny


If I didn't think TimVP was still a little bit gunshy from the Elson fiasco I would have taken his argument apart as it deserved to be....

But right now we are all trying to restore TimVP's confidence and I am just doing my part.

[timvp]

If I didn't think TimVP was still a little bit gunshy from the Elson fiasco I would have taken his argument apart as it deserved to be....

But right now we are all trying to restore TimVP's confidence and I am just doing my part.


http://drudgereport.com/siren.gif I have just unearthed a quote that will be the downfall of whottt.http://drudgereport.com/siren.gif


they're blowing over half the fucking MLE on Francisco Elson...shit, I rather Sean Marks.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46031


Now I have been known to be hard on Elson here and there, but to compare him to Sean Marks is way worse than anything timvp ever did. I may have said a lot of unflattering comments, but whottt pulled the atomic bomb of all smack talk by pulling out the YOU < SEAN MARKS card.

Even at Elson's worst, I'd rather have him than Sean Marks. That is just a low blow.

[Solid D]

Awaiting "The Coyote is better than" reference in 3.....2.....1

[FromWayDowntown]

Besides...FWDT and I have some pre-existing general emnity just on the basis of his incorrect stance towards David Robinson V Hakeem.

Speak for yourself. I appreciate all opinions, even those that are wholly indefensible (or based on wholly arbitrary line drawing).

That's how I roll.

[FromWayDowntown]

Awaiting "The Coyote is better than" reference in 3.....2.....1

You know, when timvp proposed the Avatar unity thing, I very nearly went with the Coyote for that specific reason.

[ShoogarBear]

I tried the Coyote avatar.

LeBron > Coyote avatar.

[FromWayDowntown]

I tried the Coyote avatar.

LeBron > Coyote avatar.

BTW -- I like the "Mike" Turkoglu reference. Everytime I see Hedo or hear his name, I think of PJ referring to him as "Mike," and just how, um, unfitting that seems.

[ShoogarBear]

I'm thinking of changing my title to "Be Like Mike" as long as I'm using this avatar. :lol

[whottt]

http://drudgereport.com/siren.gif I have just unearthed a quote that will be the downfall of whottt.http://drudgereport.com/siren.gif



Now I have been known to be hard on Elson here and there, but to compare him to Sean Marks is way worse than anything timvp ever did. I may have said a lot of unflattering comments, but whottt pulled the atomic bomb of all smack talk by pulling out the YOU < SEAN MARKS card.

Even at Elson's worst, I'd rather have him than Sean Marks. That is just a low blow.


Whatever makes you feel better....

Psss: When a nation is overthrown, it's always the leader of that nation that gets the worst execution. Take it like a man.

[Kori Ellis]

Whatever makes you feel better....

Psss: When a nation is overthrown, it's always the leader of that nation that gets the worst execution. Take it like a man.

A man doesn't lead the nation of SpursTalk. So don't worry y'all are safe.

[polandprzem]

If I didn't think TimVP was still a little bit gunshy from the Elson fiasco I would have taken his argument apart as it deserved to be....

But right now we are all trying to restore TimVP's confidence and I am just doing my part.


:D

:tu

[timvp]

Whatever makes you feel better....

Psss: When a nation is overthrown, it's always the leader of that nation that gets the worst execution. Take it like a man.

I've already taken the bullet, ignoring 90% of the posters agreed with what I was saying. The only hold outs were the homers and the Nugget fans.

But you have to admit, that was a harsh Sean Marks blast.

[Obstructed_View]

The only hold outs were the homers and the Nugget fans.
Don't forget those of us who'd never seen him, didn't pretend to know whether he sucked or not and didn't spout out a bunch of half-assed predictions of doom just becuase the Spurs didn't sign hall-of-famer Joel Pryzbilla.