Numbers I want to share.

[MannyIsGod]

I think these speak largely for themselves.

VOTE BY EDUCATION

Without a College Degree - 57%

Bush - 50%
Kerry - 49%
Nader - 1%

With a College Degree - 43%

Bush - 46%
Kerry - 52%
Nader - 1%

No High School - 4%

Bush - 46%
Kerry - 53%
Nader - 1%

High School Graduate - 22%

Bush - 48%
Kerry - 50%
Nader - 1%

Some College - 31%

Bush - 51%
Kerry - 48%
Nader - 1%

College Grad - 26%

Bush - 50%
Kerry - 49%
Nader - 1%

Postgrad Study - 17%

Bush - 41%
Kerry - 57%
Nader - 1%

The last one is the one that stands out for me. The most educated people in America have a clear cut decision.

These are just exit poll numbers, but I do think the last item is very telling.

[T Park]

I think the people voting for kerry with no high school at all is more telling to me.

[Kori Ellis]

I think these numbers are a bunch of crap.

But I guess we'll just disagree. :lol

[Uncle Donnie]

I think these speak largely for themselves.

Big deal. I'm smarter than you and I voted for Bush so that's all that matters. :lol

[SpursWoman]

Really telling, though, Manny? I've a degree & some post-grad work, and Kori has a graduate degree and we support Bush. Where do you fit in those numbers?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Hey Manny, maybe you can send Kerry a consolation trophy because upper academia thinks he's so great.

I call BS on your numbers.

[MannyIsGod]

Yes, well Tpark, Democrats always apeal to those who are going to benifit from entiltlement programs, so it's expected they're going to get the ultra dumb vote.

However, the PostGrad Study group doesn't regularly vote one way or another as far as I know.

Hey, if people want to discount this as simply exit poll BS, feel free. The exit polls have been wrong a lot tonight, but the margin in itself doesn't lend itself to belive that this is a huge error.

I think saying the the most educated section of america went with Kerry hands down, is not going out on a limb.

But, if the rest of America were as educated as that top 17 percent we woudln't have to choose between these 2 to begin with.

[Kori Ellis]

These are just exit poll numbers

That's why they are crap. As proven for the last eight hours, exit polls don't mean anything.

Look at the electoral vote. Look at the popular vote. The majority of Americans -- fat, skinny, educated, uneducated, short, tall, black, white, hispanic, or whatever want Bush for four more years.

[ducks]

give me a link

[Brodels]

What does this really have to do with anything? Are you implying that educated people somehow have better judgement when it comes to political matters?

I really don't know what you're trying to show. Please explain.


I think these speak largely for themselves.

VOTE BY EDUCATION

Without a College Degree - 57%

Bush - 50%
Kerry - 49%
Nader - 1%

With a College Degree - 43%

Bush - 46%
Kerry - 52%
Nader - 1%

No High School - 4%

Bush - 46%
Kerry - 53%
Nader - 1%

High School Graduate - 22%

Bush - 48%
Kerry - 50%
Nader - 1%

Some College - 31%

Bush - 51%
Kerry - 48%
Nader - 1%

College Grad - 26%

Bush - 50%
Kerry - 49%
Nader - 1%

Postgrad Study - 17%

Bush - 41%
Kerry - 57%
Nader - 1%

The last one is the one that stands out for me. The most educated people in America have a clear cut decision.

These are just exit poll numbers, but I do think the last item is very telling.

[MannyIsGod]

and so did 41% of people in that catagory SW.

I fit in the some college, FOR NOW.

Like I said AHF, call BS if you want, I don't expect the majority of people in here to lend any credence to the numbers. Just something I wanted to share.

[blackbucket]

It is no secret academia are ultra libs.

[MannyIsGod]

Brodels, Yes I feel educated peolple have better judgement on political matters.

ducks, http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

Kori, yes they are exit polls and you can discount them because they failed earlier tonight. However, I think that you'll find that the times they failed earlier tonight was because the margins were within the margins of error. Now, if there's a 17% margin of error on the polls, this one is likely BS as well. I don't think so though.

[MannyIsGod]

This is not academia blackbucket, that group includes Doctors, lawyers, anyone who went to anytype of grad school.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If they're exit polls I do definitely callbullshit.

Hell, the exit polls had Kerry winning Florida by 4, Virginia by 6, NC by 2.

Go take a look at where those states ended up and get back to me.

[Clandestino]

here's a number i wanna share... bush wins ohio and its 20 votes!

[Brodels]

I think that's bullshit. What does a recipient of a graduate degree, in say, music necessarily know about politics more than anyone else? Why would that lead to better judgement on political matters?




Brodels, Yes I feel educated peolple have better judgement on political matters.

ducks, http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

Kori, yes they are exit polls and you can discount them because they failed earlier tonight. However, I think that you'll find that the times they failed earlier tonight was because the margins were within the margins of error. Now, if there's a 17% margin of error on the polls, this one is likely BS as well. I don't think so though.

[MannyIsGod]

like i said, within the margins of error.

Believe them if you want, discredit them ifyou want. They mean nothing either way, you have four more years of your man.

[MannyIsGod]

You're right brodels, all those years of school mean nothing.

[whottt]

<<<Has a degree...knows that Kerry is more full of shit than Bush by own research.

Also...what pct of whackjobs are voting for Kerry? 99%?

Most post grads are probably silver spoons whrere it's chic to pretend to care about the poor and underprivleged....yet when it comes to giving women the right to vote in Afghanistan, or freeing Iraqis from a dictator, they suddenly lose their concern for the underprivleged.

Instead they say that those people are too "savage" for self governance.

That liberals are smarter is a stereotype and the fact that so many of them buy into Michael Moore's BS, and fail to see that liberal politicians are essentially a bunch of yes men, proves it.

[Brodels]

You're right brodels, all those years of school mean nothing.

They mean something. But they don't translate to political smarts, especially if those people didn't study politics.

Being a medical doctor doesn't make you more qualified to make political decisions. Being a medical doctor makes you more qualfied to practice medicine. What does that have to do with politics?

[SpursWoman]

and so did 41% of people in that catagory SW.

I fit in the some college, FOR NOW.


My point was I know and you know that you're not stupid and uninformed just because you don't have a post-graduate degree YET.

So it's absolutely ridiculous to assume that everyone else that doesn't have one is either. So how can that really be "telling"?

Are post-graduate degrees in say, art history, really relevant to a particular person's grasp of economics and political science?

[Brodels]

<<<Has a degree...knows that Kerry is more full of shit than Bush by own research.

Also...what pct of whackjobs are voting for Kerry? 99%?

Most post grads are probably silver spoons whrere it's chic to pretend to care about the poor and underprivlieged....yet when it comes to giving women the right to vote in Afghanistan, or freeing Iraqis froma a dictator, they suddenly lose their concern for the underprivliged.

Instead they say that those people are too "savage" for self governance.

That's the case with some, but in my experience, it certainly isn't the case with all or even most.

[MannyIsGod]

So, are you trying to argue that the portion of the population with Graduate school experience is on average equal in intelligence to the nation that does not?

Because I think that's bullshit.

[whottt]

That's the case with some, but in my experience, it certainly isn't the case with all or even most.

Sure, that isn't the case with the poor and uneducated ones....their beliefs are sincere...but that doesn't carry over to their politicians, at least not now.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think this says it all:


No High School - 4%

Bush - 46%
Kerry - 53%
Nader - 1%

So basically those who are pompous enough to believe they can run our lives due to their self-assumed intellectual superiority and those who are stupid enough to trust them vote Democrat. Thanks for reminding me.

I would also like to point out that if you feel that those with a postgraduate education possess worthy opinions why are so many of them are stuck in low paying academic employment? Surely their great intellectual ability would allow them to attain great financial success.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm tired, disapointed, and just spent after tonight. Oh and my ass is numb because this chair sucks, so let me just sum it up here.

I basically think that the portion of the american population that has gone to grad school is on average more intelligent than the portion that has not. Not in every case, but overall I think they are.

I think most polls are crap, including exit polls but when there are large margins, they are usually more accurate than when there are smaller margins.

Put those two together, and I think that these numbers tell us something.

Now, I'm going to go pass out. Night bitches.

[Brodels]

So, are you trying to argue that the portion of the population with Graduate school experience is on average equal in intelligence to the nation that does not?

Because I think that's bullshit.

I'm arguing that those with graduate school experience are equally qualified to make judgements on political matters. Please explain to me how a history graduate student in a non-political field, for instance, learns anything more about politics than a barber.

Those without graduate degrees generally have more real world working experience. Given that, it's aguable that those without graduate degrees live under the conditions that teach them the things they need to make proper political decisions.

You have to look at individual situations.

And by the way, being trained in a certain area in graduate school does not necessarily make you more intelligent than anyone else. It simply isn't the case.

[Brodels]

I'm tired, disapointed, and just spent after tonight. Oh and my ass is numb because this chair sucks, so let me just sum it up here.

I basically think that the portion of the american population that has gone to grad school is on average more intelligent than the portion that has not. Not in every case, but overall I think they are.

I think most polls are crap, including exit polls but when there are large margins, they are usually more accurate than when there are smaller margins.

Put those two together, and I think that these numbers tell us something.

Now, I'm going to go pass out. Night bitches.

Even if you think that, how does intelligence make one a better judge on political matters?

[whottt]

MB gets it.

Plus, I think the majority of Americans vote for the candidate not by party affiliation. History shows America does a pretty good job of picking the right guy.

Besides, who says smarter and higher education is always better?

Sometimes you just need a guy that has balls and common sense...specifically in a war.

And I know a lot of very intelligent people that are fucking whackos that would never get my vote in a million years. I'd say that some of the craziest people I know are also some of the smartest.

[MannyIsGod]

or you know, maybe just sometime you want the intelligent person who can keep you OUT of wars.

fuck, I'm really going to bed now, REALLY.

[Brodels]

or you know, maybe just sometime you want the intelligent person who can keep you OUT of wars.

fuck, I'm really going to bed now, REALLY.

?

Huh?

[whottt]

or you know, maybe just sometime you want the intelligent person who can keep you OUT of wars.

fuck, I'm really going to bed now, REALLY.

Sometimes you have no choice?

Besides...who you want on your side in a fight Manny? The bookworm or the hick?

In a fight, I'll take the hick....like Audie Murphy or Alvin York.

We're in a fight and there's no going back. Going back will only encourage more terrorism.

[MannyIsGod]

really? I think without those german bookworms in WWII we don't win. Or it at least costs us a hell of a lot more lives.

Seriously, there are times when you need balls, and I understand that. But I don't chalk up Bush's arrogance as balls. I just don't.

[Brodels]

really? I think without those german bookworms in WWII we don't win. Or it at least costs us a hell of a lot more lives.

Seriously, there are times when you need balls, and I understand that. But I don't chalk up Bush's arrogance as balls. I just don't.

If you don't have a graduate degree, how do you know that people with graduate degrees make better political decisions? If you really think that people with graduate degrees are smarter, you can't possibly be qualified to speak on this matter if you're not at their level of intelligence.

[MannyIsGod]

You have problems with the phrase on average.

I've forgotten how special of a skill reading comprehension is.

[Spurminator]

Some people are smart enough to make a good living without 12 years of school.

[Brodels]

You have problems with the phrase on average.

I've forgotten how special of a skill reading comprehension is.

So you're telling me that you're above average? You still haven't explained how intelligence in a certain of area translates to an ability to make better political decisions.

Where in graduate school do you learn about politics? If you aren't a political science major, you don't. And even if graduate school makes people more intelligent, which it doesn't necessarily do, how does general intelligence lead to political savvy?

[IcemanCometh]

Really telling, though, Manny? I've a degree & some post-grad work, and Kori has a graduate degree and we support Bush. Where do you fit in those numbers?

you're women tho so its expected

[SpursWoman]

What? Supporting Bush? :lol


Of course. It's in the Secret Circle of Sisterhood handbook. ;)

[CrazyOne]

I can tell you from experience that greater intelligence is closer to madness... but that's just us. :spin

[Jimcs50]

It is widely accepted that in the world of acedemia, liberals are in the majority. Just look at our professors in our colleges.....this is not news, Manny.

More telling, are the numbers of the really uneduacated, they voted for Kerry in much larger numbers, because they think they will get govt handouts. These are truly the moronic people in the country. These are the ones that tried to elect Kerry....are you proud of that???

[Shelly]

Well, my husband with his post graduate always voted Republican.

[Jimcs50]

[
Well, my husband with his post graduate always voted Republican.

Me too, but I will not always vote Republican, I will look at both candidates very closely before just blindly voting GOP. I came very close to voting for Clinton against Dole. If the Dems give us a viable candidate that seems like he has a clear vision for this country and has a congressional record that is exemplary, un-like Kerry's, then I would vote for him over a weak GOP candidate. (Bush)

[CosmicCowboy]

The last one is the one that stands out for me. The most educated people in America have a clear cut decision.

:lmao

I observed a clear cut difference in grad students when I was in college that in my experience tracked those numbers...

about 40% were hard working, motivated people typically putting themselves through grad school to better themselves...forum dwellers that I know that fall into this category would be Kori, SpursWoman, Travis, SamuraiJane, and Marcus to name a few...I apologize if I missed anyone...

The rest were what we used to call "professional students"...they didn't know what they wanted to do, didn't want to work, and the only reason they stayed in school is because their parents were paying for them to stay in school and it was a much easier track than gettting out and taking care of themselves...many of these professional students were so enamored with the insulated university lifestyle that they just stayed on after graduation and went into academia...creating a whole campus culture of worthless piece of shit "intelligencia" professors...these leeches live off of grants and endowments etc. and couldn't make a living in the real world to literally save their life.


Theres your 57%...

[Brodels]

So nobody has really come up with an answer to this question yet:

How does intelligence in a certain area translate to an ability to make better political decisions?

Where in graduate school do you learn about politics? If you aren't a political science major, you don't. And even if graduate school makes people more intelligent, which it doesn't necessarily do, how does general intelligence lead to political savvy?

[CommanderMcBragg]

I don't think a degree is any indication of a person's intelligence.
I've known some pretty dumb people with degrees and some pretty smart ones without degrees.
Also some dumb people with no education.
Common sense is where it's at.
While the majority may have wanted Bush there were quite a few that wanted Kerry and that says a lot.

[Samurai Jane]

So nobody has really come up with an answer to this question yet:

How does intelligence in a certain area translate to an ability to make better political decisions?

Where in graduate school do you learn about politics? If you aren't a political science major, you don't. And even if graduate school makes people more intelligent, which it doesn't necessarily do, how does general intelligence lead to political savvy?

You don't.. in grad school you aren't even forced to take the required government & history classes like you are as an undergrad.

[Shelly]

link (http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/gop.asp)


Claim: Study finds that persons of lower intelligence are more likely to support President George W. Bush.

Status: False.

Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2004]

"Stupid people love Bush" new study proves

According to the prestigious Southern California think tank, The Gluton Group, stupid people prefer President George W Bush over Senator John Kerry by a 4-to-1 margin. As Chief Resident Dr. Louis Friend characterized the results of the research, "the less intelligent you are, the more you like Bush." This landmark study, conducted over a 5 month period, involved 2400 likely voters bridging all economic stratas in the 17 states generally considered up for grabs on November 2nd. Participants were tested for intelligence, then asked to fill out a 12 page series of questions involving the Presidential candidates with results released earlier this week.

Article link (http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=17627)


Origins: Every election cycle brings its share of subtle (and not-so-subtle) humor pieces proclaiming that measurements have determined one candidate's intelligence to be much higher than another's, or George W. Bush that studies have found supporters of a particular candidate or party are, in general, significantly smarter as a group than supporters of the opposite party. It seems no satirical article that makes reference to a "study" (usually conducted by a fictitious academic or political group), no matter how broadly written, won't be mistaken by some readers for a valid news report. (A similar item from 2001 fooled many a news publication and is still occasionally cited as a genuine by gullible reporters.)

The item excerpted above provides plenty of clues that it is satirical in nature (and about whom it's satirizing): Besides its general premise regarding a supposedly inverse relationship between intelligence and support for President Bush, it also notes that persons with IQs in the 60-80 range are more likely to support Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (a NASCAR driver) than Senator John Kerry in the presidential election, that there is a "direct correlation between the number of preset Country Western stations on car radios and Bush's approval rating," and that "Bush supporters argue against [polls predicting an Electoral College tie] because the word College angers them."

This article is in fact the work of politic satirist Will Durst, a 9 September 2004 example of one of the columns he publishes on a semi-weekly basis.

Last updated: 1 November 2004

[MannyIsGod]

for the record, I didn't reference that article or any other false articles or studies in this thread. I used exit polls.

[2pac]

Having an MBA, being an MD or having some other upperlevel degree doesnt mean you know a thing about politics or that you know what would be best for the country.

What I find interesting is when large groups of the top economists in the nation come together to endorse Bush, because his plans would better suit growth in the nation.

Just because someone has a PhD in Biology doesnt mean they know more than Michael Moore or ALec Baldwin - it just means they are freakin awesome at biology.

[Marcus Bryant]

Listen to me, I have a grad degree and my mystical powers confirm that Bush was the right choice for you. Honest.

[dcole50]

They mean something. But they don't translate to political smarts, especially if those people didn't study politics.Exactly. Why should I care if someone with a doctorate in chemistry supports Kerry over Bush.

And it wasn't by that big of a margin either. It's irrelevant.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm going to give you all the benefit of the doubt and assume that I just simply wasn't clear enough.

Yes, having a degree doesn't mean you know anything at all.

HOWEVER, on average, people who have gone to grad school are more intelligent thatn those who haven't.

EXAMPLE. Take 200 people, 100 with post grad studies and 100 without. Administer a test about politics and I will wager that the 100 with post grad studies will have a higher average score.

Why? Because people who gain more education not only seek to further their level of knowledge in the area of study but tend to branch out and gain more intelligence overall. There are many reasons for this, but I don't think it's very debateable.

So yes, while on a one on one comparison between 2 people ANYTHING can occour, but on the whole people with post grad studies are going to be of a higher intelligence than those who don't have prost grad studies.

[Marcus Bryant]

Hmmm...should I? Oh well, why the fuck not? It's only the internets....

According to one recent observer (in the 90's) intelligence did in fact vary among racial groups in the United States. Seeing as how certain racial groups have exhibited certain strong political preferences in this and previous federal elections, if one wanted to make judgements about the fitness of those particular racial groups en masse to function in our society as well as the quality of their political bias based on their "intelligence" then that would be possible.


EXAMPLE. Take 200 people, 100 with post grad studies and 100 without. Administer a test about politics and I will wager that the 100 with post grad studies will have a higher average score.


How would the test be structured? What material would it cover, exactly?

Also, again, you fail to account for the fact that those without a high school diploma preferred, as a group, the same candidate as the group with the graduate level education. Surely if we can infer something based on the educational level of the one group, we can do the same for the other.