Parker: You're not elite, pass the ball

[Walton Buys Off Me]

4 turnovers in the fourth quarter, 0-2 in OT and his counterpart is lighting him up. Not to mention 3 assists to 6 turnovers. Yeah he's an all-star the same way Shaquille O'Neal is worth 20 million.

This after playing for Jeff Van Gundy last night.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Yet another wide open shot given up by Parker.

[Zunni]

Walton - you're not elite. Stop posting.

[21Spurs20]

Tony Parker sucks ass. Most overrated Spur ever. He had 4 TOs in like 2 mins and he was taking 22 ft Js like he's Kobe or something. Manu>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TP.

[MannyIsGod]

Walton - you're not elite. Stop posting.QFT

[Dre_7]

Do I gotta bust this out again??

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=746145&postcount=127

[ducks]

tp was 1-1 from downtown
the rest of the team 1-16

[IceColdBrewski]

6 turnovers. Not good.

[ducks]

B. Bowen 39 2-8 0-3 2-3 0 1 1 3 0 1 0 6
T. Duncan 40 10-20 0-0 4-6 5 13 2 2 0 0 3 24
F. Oberto 17 0-4 0-0 0-0 5 10 3 2 0 1 2 0
T. Parker 40 11-22 1-1 2-2 2 5 3 6 2 0 2 25
M. Ginobili 39 3-14 0-3 6-6 5 12 7 1 1 1 2 12
M. Finley 32 7-13 0-3 3-3 1 7 1 1 0 1 5 17
F. Elson 15 1-5 0-0 0-0 4 6 2 1 1 0 3 2
B. Udrih 12 0-4 0-2 0-0 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 0
B. Barry 8 0-1 0-1 0-0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0
R. Horry 18 2-5
as you can see tp shot better then any player then mike finley
he shot the same as duncan

[ducks]

Tony Parker sucks ass. Most overrated Spur ever. He had 4 TOs in like 2 mins and he was taking 22 ft Js like he's Kobe or something. Manu>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TP.

not this year

[Zunni]

Tony might easily have had a dozen assists tonight, if the perimeter guys had hit anything. When they don't, the other teams pack the lane, which really limits what both Tim and Tony can do. The mad bombers were a total of 2-17 from outside the arc, and one of those was Tony at the buzzer.

[ducks]

6 turnovers. Not good.

tp's turnovers are down this year to last
so his lack of turnovers have improved

[TDfan2007]

I don't completely agree with Walton but he has a good point. Tony seems to forget that he's a point gaurd and falls in love with shooting the ball. He seems to have fallen in love w/ the mid range jumper this year and is penetrating less. He shouldn't be taking over 20 shots and handing out only 3 assists.

[ducks]

spurs shot 37% for the game
how many assist do you think tp will get

[Zunni]

Tony Parker sucks ass. Most overrated Spur ever. He had 4 TOs in like 2 mins and he was taking 22 ft Js like he's Kobe or something. Manu>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TP.
parker 11-22
Manu 3-14


NEXT

[ChumpDumper]

I don't completely agree with Walton but he has a good point. Tony seems to forget that he's a point gaurd and falls in love with shooting the ball. He seems to have fallen in love w/ the mid range jumper this year and is penetrating less. He shouldn't be taking over 20 shots and handing out only 3 assists.You just completely agreed with Walton.

[Man Mountain]

Tony might easily have had a dozen assists tonight, if the perimeter guys had hit anything. When they don't, the other teams pack the lane, which really limits what both Tim and Tony can do. The mad bombers were a total of 2-17 from outside the arc, and one of those was Tony at the buzzer.

Yeah the 3 point misses and the layup misses killed Tony's assists. I'm not saying he had an incredible game, but you can't complain about his assists when the team shoots like crap. He made some good passes but the other guys shots didn't go down.

[ducks]

I don't completely agree with Walton but he has a good point. Tony seems to forget that he's a point gaurd and falls in love with shooting the ball. He seems to have fallen in love w/ the mid range jumper this year and is penetrating less. He shouldn't be taking over 20 shots and handing out only 3 assists.


blame pop
pop has told him in playoffs to shot 25 shots

[MannyIsGod]

Heh.

[21Spurs20]

parker 11-22
Manu 3-14


NEXT

Manu 3-14....12 points, 12 rebound, 7 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 1 TO
TP 11-22.... 25 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 6 TOs

NEXT

[ChumpDumper]

Manu 3-14....12 points, 12 rebound, 7 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 1 TO
TP 11-22.... 25 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists 2 steals, 6 TOs
NEXTSo Manu should have passed to Tony more?

[21Spurs20]

So Manu should have passed to Tony more?

Huh? Why would he do that? so TP can jack up more shots?

[ducks]

because tp can hit half his shots and manu can not
and tp can hit threes and manu can not

[ChumpDumper]

Huh? Why would he do that? so TP can jack up more shots?Why not? You've proven he was shooting better.

[timvp]

Tony sucked but it looked like he was trying to take a bigger role in crunch time and I think that was by design. People always complain that Tony disappears in the fourth, but that's mostly due to no play calls coming his way. This time Pop went to him in the fourth and Parker had his ups and downs (mostly downs).

However, if you want Parker to come up big in big games, you have to get his feet wet. I'd like to see the Spurs use him more in the fourth in close games as an offensive option so he's ready for that in the playoffs. It'd be nice to have another play at the end of games other than a clear out for Manu.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Tony might easily have had a dozen assists tonight, if the perimeter guys had hit anything.

This isn't about Tony's near misses on assists because of other guys hitting. It's about him dishing out turnover after turnover in the fourth and OT while trying to force the issue.

[ducks]

tp was averaging 1.9 turnovers a game
last year 3.1 last year

I think his turnovers are going down!

[GrandeDavid]

I thought Parker was awesome. I thought it was ballsy how he stuck that three at the OT buzzer. Made the final score more respectable, so I'll sleep better tonight. :p

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Both sides come off fucking retarded in this thread.

[ducks]

and manu is averaging 2.3 turnovers a game

[IceColdBrewski]

tp's turnovers are down this year to last
so his lack of turnovers have improved


Who gives a shit about last year? The only thing I care about is what happened tonight. Bottom line. TP was the turnover leader for the Spurs. No matter how you slice it, it isn't good dipshit.

[Dre_7]

I am not worried about either Tony or Manu. People need to chill, its a B2B and its NOV-FREAKIN-VEMBER!!!

Spurs win it all this year!!

[Zunni]

Manu 3-14....12 points, 12 rebound, 7 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 1 TO
TP 11-22.... 25 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 6 TOs

NEXT
You would have ripped Parker for shooting 3-14, no matter what the other numbers were.

You haters need to recognize: Tony Parker will be a Spur for about 5-6 years after Manu is gone and retired. You'd better get used to him playing a big role on this team, or find another team. I don't think I've ever seen a group of fans absolutely HATE an All Star player from their team. It's just sad.

[ducks]

Tony sucked but it looked like he was trying to take a bigger role in crunch time and I think that was by design. People always complain that Tony disappears in the fourth, but that's mostly due to no play calls coming his way. This time Pop went to him in the fourth and Parker had his ups and downs (mostly downs).

However, if you want Parker to come up big in big games, you have to get his feet wet. I'd like to see the Spurs use him more in the fourth in close games as an offensive option so he's ready for that in the playoffs. It'd be nice to have another play at the end of games other than a clear out for Manu.

I agree
they need to go to him more why
because you never know in playoffs if everyone is going to be healthy

[21Spurs20]

Why not? You've proven he was shooting better.

So? It's not about shooting. Did Manu have 4 TO's in the 4th Q? All im saying is Manu's a better player and he understands the game wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than TP.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I don't get the mentalities of some of these board people.

[ducks]

Who gives a shit about last year? The only thing I care about is what happened tonight. Bottom line. TP was the turnover leader for the Spurs. No matter how you slice it, it isn't good dipshit.
did I say it was good
he has less turnovers then manu though THIS YEAR
manu has had games where has had more turnovers then 6

[ChumpDumper]

All im saying isYou're angry because they lost.

[lefty]

Manu is the 2nd best player
When TP starts playing well, he thinks he is unstoppable and starts turning the ball over ; no wonder why Pop yells at him on occasion
TP is at his best when he is the 3rd option

[ducks]

Manu is the 2nd best player
When TP starts playing well, he thinks he is unstoppable and starts turning the ball over ; no wonder why Pop yells at him on occasion
TP is at his best when he is the 3rd option
manu has not been the 2 best player for 2 years

[21Spurs20]

You're angry because they lost.

No, im not angry. I'm just surprised at the Tony Parker d*ckriding in this board. He's a selfish player who only cares about his stats and Manu is wayyy better than him.

[ducks]

tp would be benched if he did not obey pop

he has been and will be benched in the future
pop benches everyone even duncan

[JGrice02]

You guys are the biggest bunch of whiners I have ever seen! Quit your crying. It is pathetic.

Parker is learning how to play with a jumper in his game for the first time. As the season progresses he will learn to mix it with his penetrations. Meanwhile, this has been a terrible start to the season for both Finley and Manu.

Thru seven games Ginobili has averaged a career low FG%, 3 pt %, and steals. Parker's assit-to-turnover ratio is MUCH better than Manu's, as are his FG% and 3 pt %. The kid is still 24 while Manu is pushing 30 and looking 40.

What I don't understand is why this surprises anyone who claims to be a Spurs fan? If you were a fan then you would be able to recognize the obvious.

Last night the Spurs won because of their bench. Tonight that same bench shot 35% for the game, and that with Finley's BEST game of the season. What's sad is that is pretty good compared to Manu, Bowen, and Oberto who went a combined 5/26 for just 19% shooting. Duncan and Parker were 21/42, 50%. Not bad for the guys being blamed for this loss.

Its a long season and the Spurs biggest challenge will be the mental hurdle of winning the second game of a back-to-back. I expect them to lose 50% of their second games this season until they can prove otherwise. This loss does not surprise me in the least. If you were a fan, if you understood this team, it would not surprise you either.

[Zunni]

No, im not angry. I'm just surprised at the Tony Parker d*ckriding in this board. He's a selfish player who only cares about his stats and Manu is wayyy better than him.
Pop would have benched or traded him a LONG time ago if that were true. You just hate his ass. Admit it.

[IceColdBrewski]

Manu is the 2nd best player
When TP starts playing well, he thinks he is unstoppable and starts turning the ball over ; no wonder why Pop yells at him on occasion
TP is at his best when he is the 3rd option

Quoted for truth.

[ducks]

Quoted for truth.
wrong
tp was allstar manu was not last year :ihit

[ChumpDumper]

No, im not angry. I'm just surprised at the Tony Parker d*ckriding in this board. He's a selfish player who only cares about his stats and Manu is wayyy better than him.Nah, Tony does whatever Pop tells him to do. You have a poor understanding of this team.

[Man Mountain]

When TP starts playing well, he thinks he is unstoppable and starts turning the ball over

If that was true, how could be averaging less than 2 turnovers and over 20 points. That would seem to mean that he was playing well and NOT turning the ball over. (I'm not talking about tonight, the prior six games).

[lefty]

manu has not been the 2 best player for 2 years

That's because unlike Parker he is a total team player ; who was the 2nd option when we won in 2005 ???

[Lady M]

ho yesterday i was afraid : TP make a bad game and noone open a thread
but now i can see all the haters are always here and always stupid.
nothing change

[Man Mountain]

That's because unlike Parker he is a total team player ; who was the 2nd option when we won in 2005 ???

That was two years ago. Manu isn't that player anymore and neither is Tony. Tony is much improved and Manu isn't at the level he was in the 2005 playoffs.

[lefty]

wrong
tp was allstar manu was not last year :ihit

Manu was not 100% and Tony was a bit overrated, because he was leading the league in points in the paint (which was due to his quickness, not high bball IQ)

[Amuseddaysleeper]

if there's anything to blame TP for it's his dumb fuck technical fouls

had he not mouthed off to the refs, we wouldn't have given the bobcats extra free throws and woulda stolen the game in regulation

[lefty]

ho yesterday i was afraid : TP make a bad game and noone open a thread
but now i can see all the haters are always here and always stupid.
nothing change

Even when we win, I'm not satisfied with TP ; I'm afraid his mistakes become costly comes June

[T Park]

Tony was a bit overrated, because he was leading the league in points in the paint (which was due to his quickness, not high bball IQ)

:lmao


So is this the official, "Trade Parker" thread then?


Id like to know from the Manu homers, if the 3-14 he chunked up there wasn't as big a reason for the loss as the 6 TOs from Parker.


Of course they won't answer that.

[lefty]

:lmao


So is this the official, "Trade Parker" thread then?


Id like to know from the Manu homers, if the 3-14 he chunked up there wasn't as big a reason for the loss as the 6 TOs from Parker.


Of course they won't answer that.


:sleep

[IceColdBrewski]

if there's anything to blame TP for it's his dumb fuck technical fouls

had he not mouthed off to the refs, we wouldn't have given the bobcats extra free throws and woulda stolen the game in regulation

Damn, I forgot about that one. Hounding the refs after scoring 2 is unheard of, but TP made it a point to give the ref an earfull all the way down the court. Looked like he was begging for a T. Stupid. Very stupid.

[ducks]

to get respect you have to give the refs an earfully as long as you do not pick a t
smart very smart

[1Parker1]

:lol Damn, the annual Parker vs. Manu debate came out a little earlier than I expected this season....


:smokin

[Man Mountain]

:lol Damn, the annual Parker vs. Manu debate came out a little earlier than I expected this season....


:smokin

The Haters on both sides hate all year round :lol

[T Park]

if there's anything to blame TP for it's his dumb fuck technical fouls

had he not mouthed off to the refs, we wouldn't have given the bobcats extra free throws and woulda stolen the game in regulation

So you hate it when the team DOESNT show emotion, but hate it when Parker showed emotion?

At least your consistent :lmao

[ducks]

the manu vs tp debate happens when tp is clearly outplaying manu right now
and when tp makes to many turnovers they want to stir the pot

and when the church of manu is nervous that pop is wanting to go to tp now in the fourth and manu fans do not like that

[T Park]

Damn, I forgot about that one. Hounding the refs after scoring 2 is unheard of, but TP made it a point to give the ref an earfull all the way down the court. Looked like he was begging for a T. Stupid. Very stupid.

Too bad beno didn't play eh?

Since

Beno > Parker

[Zunni]

Manu was not 100% and Tony was a bit overrated, because he was leading the league in points in the paint (which was due to his quickness, not high bball IQ)
There are PLENTY of uber-quick guards in the NBA that don't shoot anywhere NEAR his paint percentage. You know DAMN well that it's more than just quickness.

[zero signal]

Manu was not 100% and Tony was a bit overrated, because he was leading the league in points in the paint (which was due to his quickness, not high bball IQ)
A point guard who led the league in points in the paint is overrated? :dizzy

[1Parker1]

People need to realize that Manu and Tony are on the same team...they aren't competing for anything. And aside from that, who gives a f^&k if they have a good game or an off game. This is Tim Duncan's team, as long as everyone else does their part, Spurs will be good to go. Where was all the bitching the first 5 games of the season when Tony was tearing it up against the Mavs, Knicks, and Company and Manu was in a shooting slump?

Parker's going to have off games, just like Manu is going to have off games. People need to stop trying to compare them, they're teammates and more than that they play different positions and bring different values to the team. Get over it, already. The Church stuff is all in jest, but some of you guys are taking it a little too far...

[lefty]

A point guard who led the league in points in the paint is overrated? :dizzy

why not?

[Man Mountain]

People need to realize that Manu and Tony are on the same team...they aren't competing for anything. And aside from that, who gives a f^&k if they have a good game or an off game. This is Tim Duncan's team, as long as everyone else does their part, Spurs will be good to go. Where was all the bitching the first 5 games of the season when Tony was tearing it up against the Mavs, Knicks, and Company and Manu was in a shooting slump?

Parker's going to have off games, just like Manu is going to have off games. People need to stop trying to compare them, they're teammates and more than that they play different positions and bring different values to the team. Get over it, already. The Church stuff is all in jest, but some of you guys are taking it a little too far...


:clap :clap :clap

[IceColdBrewski]

Too bad beno didn't play eh?

Since

Beno > Parker

Still trying to spin my old comments eh? Give it up already. :lmao

[lefty]

:downspin:

[SequSpur]

Oberto got used.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

So you hate it when the team DOESNT show emotion, but hate it when Parker showed emotion?

At least your consistent :lmao


i love emotion, but everyone on the board can admit getting a T after YOU SCORE TWO POINTS is a dumbass move. it wasn't like hounding the ref the length of the court was justified.

it was a dumb move and cost us the game, plain and simple.


there was no need for that


having said that, the TP hate is a bit overdone tonight, and he played well in spurts

[spurschick]

It was a pseudo-collective sucking of ass. While I wasn't happy with Manu's 3/14, I was still impressed to see him get a double-double and be 3 assists shy of a triple-double.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

People need to realize that Manu and Tony are on the same team...they aren't competing for anything. And aside from that, who gives a f^&k if they have a good game or an off game. This is Tim Duncan's team, as long as everyone else does their part, Spurs will be good to go. Where was all the bitching the first 5 games of the season when Tony was tearing it up against the Mavs, Knicks, and Company and Manu was in a shooting slump?

Parker's going to have off games, just like Manu is going to have off games. People need to stop trying to compare them, they're teammates and more than that they play different positions and bring different values to the team. Get over it, already. The Church stuff is all in jest, but some of you guys are taking it a little too far...
Finally... I mean it's ok to have a favorite Spur, but to put them against each other?? WhyYYY? I don't care about stats, I just want everyone to do what they can to win and play to their potential. FG Percentages don't matter to me and TO ratios between players. Only the TEAM W.

I don't get why the insane church members get hard-ons when Manu or Tony does poorly, while the other one has a great game. *COUGH, Ducks

[SequSpur]

It was a pseudo-collective sucking of ass. While I wasn't happy with Manu's 3/14, I was still impressed to see him get a double-double and be 3 assists shy of a triple-double.

impressed with a little ray of sunshine against the fukkin bobcats...

and you call yourself spurschick?

What a waste of a username.

[ChumpDumper]

It was a pseudo-collective sucking of ass.I take issue with the "pseudo" modifier.

[SilverPlayer]

A night where we lost because the spurs could not buy a bucket and who do people turn on? The one who was hitting his shots.

The entire team played sloppy as hell. Nobody could make a shot or even an entry pass. This loss is in the entire team. period.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

It was a pseudo-collective sucking of ass. While I wasn't happy with Manu's 3/14, I was still impressed to see him get a double-double and be 3 assists shy of a triple-double.
Yeah somethings wrong with his Shooting game this start...but he'll adjust his offensive game and improve. He's due. The rest he's been pretty much the same ol' Manu with the hustle plays and charges ...and flopping.

[spurschick]

impressed with a little ray of sunshine against the fukkin bobcats...

and you call yourself spurschick?

What a waste of a username.

Lick me.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

A night where we lost because the spurs could not buy a bucket and who do people turn on? The one who was hitting his shots.

The entire team played sloppy as hell. Nobody could make a shot or even an entry pass. This loss is in the entire team. period.
Yeah, they had their chance in OT and the Fourth, and just couldn't make anything. All of them sucked. The 50 percent field goal is deceiving when it comes to hitting shots. You'd think Duncan had a good game, but he missed easy lay ups apparently. And a DUNK?

[SilverPlayer]

Lick me.
O shit. :hungry:

:lol

[nkdlunch]

Dumbass thread. Parker has been the best Spur up to now. He is gonna carry the SPurs on his back this regular season. Of course come playoffs,he's gonna hand the team over to the big boys, DUncan, Manu and grandpa Horry

[TDMVPDPOY]

Lick me.

ive been waitin far so long....i luv u long time


anyway....


now you all know why i hate tp, and some of you clowns calling me out last time....

[Lady M]

when TP was on the floor tonight he makes 11-22 FG
Tim 7/15 and TP makes 2 assists for him
Finley 1/7
the other 5/27 with 1 assist for Manu
3 assists is very good with only 13 possibilities (and you know how many times with Tim we can't see an assists)

[SequSpur]

ive been waitin far so long....i luv u long time
....

:lol

[George Gervin's Afro]

I have long been a Tony basher and it boils down to his decision making and forcing shots. When he cannot penetrate he never seems to catch his rythym. When he is in his groove his shooting seems to be more smooth and in the flow of the game.If he does not get involved then he looks like he has in the last couple of games. I think one thing that Tony REALLY needs to work on is to find ways to help the team when he cannot penetrate or when his shot is off. I have been HAMMERED in the past for making this comment but TP seems to sulk when he is not invloved in the game and making plays. TP is a good player but in order to be a great player he must find ways to help the team when he cannot offensively.

[SAGambler]

He shouldn't be taking over 20 shots and handing out only 3 assists.


Here is the problem with Tony's assists......The guy he passes it to....HAS TO HIT THE SHOT.....

He could have had ten last night, easily.

And yes, he had more than his share of turnovers last night... After watching the way the Bobcats claw constantly at the ball, I suspect a lot of teams are going to suffer more than a few turnovers against this team.

[Spurminator]

TP is a good player but in order to be a great player he must find ways to help the team when he cannot offensively.


For Parker to be considered great around here, the Spurs would have to go 96-0. He's the easiest and most convenient target ever. It's as though we only have one player on this team who takes some ill-advised shots or commits turnovers during a game.

[coopdogg3]

For Parker to be considered great around here, the Spurs would have to go 96-0. He's the easiest and most convenient target ever. It's as though we only have one player on this team who takes some ill-advised shots or commits turnovers during a game.

Well that kinda comes with the territory when you're a PG. Like a QB - get all the blame and all the credit. Is it fair? Nope. Just seems to be the way it is. Duncan is completely off-limits (as he should be) - leaves Pop, Parker and Holt. All 3 have been called out for this loss. Kinda crazy, and it doesn't make sense. The problem is, I don't think Parker gets his share of the credit when the Spurs win.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Demand A Fuckn Trade!

[Spurminator]

Well that kinda comes with the territory when you're a PG. Like a QB - get all the blame and all the credit. Is it fair? Nope. Just seems to be the way it is. Duncan is completely off-limits (as he should be) - leaves Pop, Parker and Holt. All 3 have been called out for this loss. Kinda crazy, and it doesn't make sense. The problem is, I don't think Parker gets his share of the credit when the Spurs win.

Most definitely.

For me, Parker's earned the benefit of the doubt. A "careful" Tony Parker is not as good for this team as an aggressive, take-some-chances, perhaps overconfident Tony Parker. If that means he bricks a few outside shots or commits some turnovers, I'll take it. Overall, he's still the best offensive option we've got.

[xapatan2]

For Parker to be considered great around here, the Spurs would have to go 96-0. He's the easiest and most convenient target ever. It's as though we only have one player on this team who takes some ill-advised shots or commits turnovers during a game.

Bravo ! Bravo ! Bravo !

Thank god you wrote this !

Xap'

[coopdogg3]

For me, it's also how we lost. I'm used to celebrating victories eaked out in the end. I'm used to one of those Manu 3's going down. Having a rookie (who has not been particularly sharp offensively) light up Bowen is just unacceptable for me (I'm a Bruce Homer.)

If I had to choose between losing to Houston and beating Charlotte, or beating Houston and losing to Charlotte. I'd take the latter in a heartbeat. But this was just a frustrating loss with HOW the Spurs lost for me.

[ginobili fan]

I really don't understand the haters since they are all spurs player
And do you think that tony is as stupid as you imagine? If he really is how can you explain that POP put him in the starting five when he was only 19? and it wasn't atlanta or New york...but san antonio. Find me all the PG at this age that we could put in a system like the spurs...And seriously,I don't see the spurs winning with other PG than TP moreover,I think TP will Lead this team this season and the playoffs and more , the next years,with gino going 30,Duncan who for me, isn't clearly the same of 2003,2005 and he's going down little by little(Even though he still have great stats)

[ginobili fan]

Here is the problem with Tony's assists......The guy he passes it to....HAS TO HIT THE SHOT.....

He could have had ten last night, easily.

And yes, he had more than his share of turnovers last night... After watching the way the Bobcats claw constantly at the ball, I suspect a lot of teams are going to suffer more than a few turnovers against this team.

Yeah it's obvious
Imagine the SUNS with the SPURS 3points% i think nash would have maybe 2 assists :lol

[14dave]

Hey Tony haters, I'm so tired to always hear your bullshit. Tony do only the things Pop ask him to do. He makes his job and do it well!
If you want some assists, the guy who shot the ball need to score if you want it! And in the SPURS system when Tony gives the ball, it goes to Manu who give it to Bruce and goes to Tim. The ball goes to 2-3 or 4 players before a shot. whit this kind of play you can't have some assists.
A guy like Steve Nash each time he give the ball the guy shot directly. With that you can make a lot of assist. But in the SPURS system you go in the bench with to fast shot!
Each year Tony improve his game and you are never satisfied.
An other thing I don't understand is why you always compare him to Manu???
It's crazy, it's a team, the guys don't play at the same position and you always compare them! We need both of them. I always liked Manu, but because of guys like you who always says bullshit on tony and compare him to Manu and says One is better than the other and blabla bla!
Open your eyes man, Manu was awesome in 2005, surrely one of the best player in the planet but after... Where is this incredible Manu???
He's still a good player but not the same he was in 2005 and he probably never play at this level again.
Tony improve each year and he is still young! Without him I don't know how many games we won last year??

[ginobili fan]

Hey Tony haters, I'm so tired to always hear your bullshit. Tony do only the things Pop ask him to do. He makes his job and do it well!
If you want some assists, the guy who shot the ball need to score if you want it! And in the SPURS system when Tony gives the ball, it goes to Manu who give it to Bruce and goes to Tim. The ball goes to 2-3 or 4 players before a shot. whit this kind of play you can't have some assists.
A guy like Steve Nash each time he give the ball the guy shot directly. With that you can make a lot of assist. But in the SPURS system you go in the bench with to fast shot!
Each year Tony improve his game and you are never satisfied.
An other thing I don't understand is why you always compare him to Manu???
It's crazy, it's a team, the guys don't play at the same position and you always compare them! We need both of them. I always liked Manu, but because of guys like you who always says bullshit on tony and compare him to Manu and says One is better than the other and blabla bla!
Open your eyes man, Manu was awesome in 2005, surrely one of the best player in the planet but after... Where is this incredible Manu???
He's still a good player but not the same he was in 2005 and he probably never play at this level again.
Tony improve each year and he is still young! Without him I don't know how many games we won last year??

:clap :clap

[z0sa]

anybody who thinks parker is the number one offensive option right now... is wrong. Parker needs to learn how to distribute when hes off.

[ginobili fan]

anybody who thinks parker is the number one offensive option right now... is wrong. Parker needs to learn how to distribute when hes off.

OK I totally agree but tony is neeeeeeeeeeever off :spin
:lol
there are his stats this season:
Nov 15 vs. CHA L 92-95 40 11-22 1-1 2-2 2 3 5 3 2 0 6 2 25 points
Nov 14 @ HOU W 84-92 30 4-13 0-1 0-0 0 4 4 5 0 0 1 0 8 points(this confirm that Tony is a HUMAN)
Nov 11 vs. NYK W 100-92 36 12-17 0-0 9-12 0 0 0 6 0 0 2 1 33 points
Nov 8 vs. PHX W 111-106 41 11-22 2-3 5-5 0 2 2 6 4 0 1 2 29 points
Nov 6 @ NYK W 93-105 35 11-16 2-2 0-2 0 3 3 10 0 0 3 3 24 points
Nov 5 @ TOR W 94-103 33 8-17 0-0 3-4 1 3 4 2 1 1 2 2 19 points
Nov 3 vs. CLE L 81-88 35 8-16 0-0 5-8 0 5 5 5 0 0 3 0 21 points
Nov 2 @ DAL W 91-97 34 5-11 0-1 9-12 0 2 2 3 1 0 1 3 19 points

[Spurminator]

anybody who thinks parker is the number one offensive option right now... is wrong. Parker needs to learn how to distribute when hes off.

Who is the number one offensive option on this team?

Obviously Duncan is best if all things are equal, but they don't play in a vacuum. If I have one play, I'd rather have Parker driving to the basket or shooting off a screen than Duncan posting up two defenders. Particularly given Parker's FT advantage.

[George Gervin's Afro]

OK I totally agree but tony is neeeeeeeeeeever off :spin
:lol
there are his stats this season:
Nov 15 vs. CHA L 92-95 40 11-22 1-1 2-2 2 3 5 3 2 0 6 2 25 points
Nov 14 @ HOU W 84-92 30 4-13 0-1 0-0 0 4 4 5 0 0 1 0 8 points(this confirm that Tony is a HUMAN)
Nov 11 vs. NYK W 100-92 36 12-17 0-0 9-12 0 0 0 6 0 0 2 1 33 points
Nov 8 vs. PHX W 111-106 41 11-22 2-3 5-5 0 2 2 6 4 0 1 2 29 points
Nov 6 @ NYK W 93-105 35 11-16 2-2 0-2 0 3 3 10 0 0 3 3 24 points
Nov 5 @ TOR W 94-103 33 8-17 0-0 3-4 1 3 4 2 1 1 2 2 19 points
Nov 3 vs. CLE L 81-88 35 8-16 0-0 5-8 0 5 5 5 0 0 3 0 21 points
Nov 2 @ DAL W 91-97 34 5-11 0-1 9-12 0 2 2 3 1 0 1 3 19 points


22 shots to score 25 points? for a point guard? Tony is a GREAT player when he can penetrate and score/dish but when he cannot he looks lost. In the playoffs other teams will back off of him and not allow him to penetrate. So then what? Do we want him taking 25% of the shots still?

[Lady M]

22 shots to score 25 points? for a point guard? Tony is a GREAT player when he can penetrate and score/dish but when he cannot he looks lost. In the playoffs other teams will back off of him and not allow him to penetrate. So then what? Do we want him taking 25% of the shots still?
off course he shoot only one 3pts but he can shoot only 2 FT so it's good

if TP make 2/6 for 3 you will cry if he make 1/1 you cry
you never be happy with him :depressed

[George Gervin's Afro]

off course he shoot only one 3pts but he can shoot only 2 FT so it's good

if TP make 2/6 for 3 you will cry if he make 1/1 you cry
you never be happy with him :depressed


I want TP to be a smart player and recognize what is happening. When teams back off of him he needs to adjust his game. I will give him credit this year because I have not seen him take on 5 guys or force himself into the lane and throw up wild shots. Since Tony has the ball in his hands the majority of the time it's imperitive that he be smart with it.

[ginobili fan]

22 shots to score 25 points? for a point guard? Tony is a GREAT player when he can penetrate and score/dish but when he cannot he looks lost. In the playoffs other teams will back off of him and not allow him to penetrate. So then what? Do we want him taking 25% of the shots still?

So what?!!!!?? :oops what do you want him to do more with 22 shots??
Because do you think that "11 from 22 "(= 50% i'm afraid that you cannot calculate but I think this is the case :lol :spin :lol )
Because when you see it(can you see?):
15/54 in FG % for the rest of the team(Except TIM who is also at 50%)
that is to say that the rest of the team(Except TIM who is also at 50%) is at 28% of success :bang
So when you see this,I really want TP taking 25% of the shoot still :smokin

[VP5]

off course he shoot only one 3pts but he can shoot only 2 FT so it's good

if TP make 2/6 for 3 you will cry if he make 1/1 you cry
you never be happy with him :depressed

YES
Tony made a lot of good matchs.
But, 6 TOs is verry bad for you.

TONY PARKER will go to LAS VEGAS

(i'm not english or american, sorry for the mistakes in this post :depressed )

[Spurminator]

22 shots to score 25 points? for a point guard? Tony is a GREAT player when he can penetrate and score/dish but when he cannot he looks lost. In the playoffs other teams will back off of him and not allow him to penetrate. So then what? Do we want him taking 25% of the shots still?


If they leave him open, he'll need to take shots to keep them honest. Not every time up the floor obviously, but he doesn't do that anyway...

[George Gervin's Afro]

So what?!!!!?? :oops what do you want him to do more with 22 shots??
Because do you think that "11 from 22 "(= 50% i'm afraid that you cannot calculate but I think this is the case :lol :spin :lol )
Because when you see it(can you see?):
15/54 in FG % for the rest of the team(Except TIM who is also at 50%)
that is to say that the rest of the team(Except TIM who is also at 50%) is at 28% of success :bang
So when you see this,I really want TP taking 25% of the shoot still :smokin


Is he the point guard or the 'man' on this team? Do you want him to get others involved in the game or just chuck shots up? Is he going to shoot us into the playoffs? Do you want marbury or stockton running your team?

[Spurminator]

Stockton would average 7 apg on this team.

[ginobili fan]

Is he the point guard or the 'man' on this team? Do you want him to get others involved in the game or just chuck shots up? Is he going to shoot us into the playoffs? Do you want marbury or stockton running your team?

I don't want neither marbury nor stockton running my team but Tony Parker :ihit

[cherylsteele]

This after playing for Jeff Van Gundy last night.
TP NEVER played for JVG......he played against him. :rolleyes

[smeagol]

the manu vs tp debate happens when tp is clearly outplaying manu right now
and when tp makes to many turnovers they want to stir the pot

and when the church of manu is nervous that pop is wanting to go to tp now in the fourth and manu fans do not like that

ducks, you are a member of honor in every Manu vs Tony debate.

And if there is no debate going on, you are the one who always stirrs the pot with anti-Manu comments. If you wantme to, I can retrieve dozens of anti-Manu posts from you on threads that weren't about Manu vs Tony.

STFU for once, please.

[bdictjames]

Give Tony a break. He's probably training hard at this very moment to get his shot up.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Give Tony a break. He's probably training hard at this very moment to get his shot up.

what shot are you talkin about? ive been waitin for this for the last few seasons ever since he started to bring this up about shooting, thats what he said last season, the season b4, the season b4 that.........only shots his practicing is bukake shots...

[ducks]

you do realize he was shooting over 50% from outside of 17 right
I would have to look to see what he is shooting right now

[z0sa]

Parker is a scoring point guard, we all understand and love him for that. He's done well and vastly improved his jumpshot.

When scoring point guards are off, however, they let the others get into the game - but Tony just can't get that part. He continues throwing up shots, penetrating to the paint but getting scared and stuck and forcing us to take bad shots when he passes out after seconds have ticked off the clock, or even worse like last night, where he was getting stripped every time he got into the paint.

[ducks]

team shot 37% last night
had they made their shots tp would have had atleast 10 assist last night

[ducks]

http://www.nba.com/hotzones/
I dare anyone to go here to check tp's outside shooting touch
and start comparing them to other players

[Dartherus]

For the ones saying TP > Manu....

It's simple, during regular season, Tony will do a lot better than Manu, but during playoffs (when defense gets more serious) Manu will always be better than Tony (a so one-dimensional player as Tony won't be as good with intense defense).

Besides, Manu cares more about the playoff and earning a ring than being nominated to ASG, that's why during REGULAR SEASON you'll likely only will see him at near full-throttle in closed games or against traditional rivals.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

wow... one loss after going 6-1 in NOVEMBER!! and everyone is jumping off cliffs. I CAN'T BELIEVE WE'RE BACK TO THIS TONY vs MANU BULLSHIT AGAIN!! I'm not surprised to see ducks and his moronic comments in here, but the people who keep saying Manu is better than Tony... WHERE IS THE PROOF?? I'm about the biggest Manu fan in here, with a few exceptions, and its freaking obvious that Tony is the better player right now, and just because he had ONE turnover prone game doesn't change a damn thing.

I can't believe Tony hasn't proven himself in the your eyes people!! What the hell does he have to do? average 30pts per game?? Sure, he could improve his assists per game, but damn! its not like the dude isn't playing out of his mind as of late!

[SenorSpur]

I have long been a Tony basher and it boils down to his decision making and forcing shots. When he cannot penetrate he never seems to catch his rythym. When he is in his groove his shooting seems to be more smooth and in the flow of the game.If he does not get involved then he looks like he has in the last couple of games. I think one thing that Tony REALLY needs to work on is to find ways to help the team when he cannot penetrate or when his shot is off. I have been HAMMERED in the past for making this comment but TP seems to sulk when he is not invloved in the game and making plays. TP is a good player but in order to be a great player he must find ways to help the team when he cannot offensively.

That's a Touchdown!. Exactly the point I was making in a similar thread, following Monday's Rockets game.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53812

Many thought it was a "bashing" of TP. Quite the contrary. He's a fantastic player for only 24 years of age. He carried the team all season last year. The fact is he's still young, still developing and still has a great deal sto learn about the PG position. By no means is he a finished product or an elite PG yet.

Look at the legacy of the NBA's great PGs and you'll find that they could all beat teams in a variety of ways. Big O, Magic Stockton, Isaiah, JKidd and hell, even Michael "Sugar Ray" Richardson were all multi-dimensional.

The goal of every opponent is to try and taking away a player's strength. To be a truly effective and dangerous player, you've got to have a few more tools in your kit. At this point, Tony is primarily reliant on his scoring. Which renders him invisible when teams pack the lane and his outside shot is off.

The bottom line is he's got to figure out other ways to have an impact when he cannot score.

[Dartherus]

wow... one loss after going 6-1 in NOVEMBER!! and everyone is jumping off cliffs. I CAN'T BELIEVE WE'RE BACK TO THIS TONY vs MANU BULLSHIT AGAIN!! I'm not surprised to see ducks and his moronic comments in here, but the people who keep saying Manu is better than Tony... WHERE IS THE PROOF?? I'm about the biggest Manu fan in here, with a few exceptions, and its freaking obvious that Tony is the better player right now, and just because he had ONE turnover prone game doesn't change a damn thing.

I can't believe Tony hasn't proven himself in the your eyes people!! What the hell does he have to do? average 30pts per game?? Sure, he could improve his assists per game, but damn! its not like the dude isn't playing out of his mind as of late!

Again, it's simple, in REGULAR SEASON, Tony will be better (being so one-dimensional won't hurt in loose defense during regular season), in playoff, his one-dimensional play isn't as effective against harder D.

OTOH, Manu cares more about playoff and getting a ring, even if it means sacrifizing the ASG. So in regular season, you'll only see the best manu only in very closes games or against direct rivals for the ring. His game (with one of the best Basketball IQ of the whole league) is also more likely to be noticed against strong D, against soft D not so high IQ is needed, just athleticism and shooting a lot.

I think it's a fair trade for the Spurs, Tony can contribute during regular season to help spurs get a nice record and home court advantage, from playoff on, it will be mostly a job for Tim and Manu.

[stéphane]

sad sad thread
nothing much to discuss about...
but the point is : the better the player is the higher your expectations are...
when TD post 20 and 10 but not playing great D and failing to be clutch you're disappointed... the same goes with manu or tony even the haters knows he can be the key to a victory and when he is they are simply happy and shut their mouths ^^
but when he's not as good as he's most of the time their pissed and they come on ST to have an argument coz they simply don't like him...
I don't even think it'll change no matter how much he improves... you want an argument you got it... enjoy
I just wonder how many of you just dont like the fact that he's young, good looking, rich, talented, has the opportunity to play as a spur alongside TD and manu and the worst that he's just french...

[SenorSpur]

sad sad thread
nothing much to discuss about...
but the point is : the better the player is the higher your expectations are...
when TD post 20 and 10 but not playing great D and failing to be clutch you're disappointed... the same goes with manu or tony even the haters knows he can be the key to a victory and when he is they are simply happy and shut their mouths ^^
but when he's not as good as he's most of the time their pissed and they come on ST to have an argument coz they simply don't like him...
I don't even think it'll change no matter how much he improves... you want an argument you got it... enjoy
I just wonder how many of you just dont like the fact that he's young, good looking, rich, talented, has the opportunity to play as a spur alongside TD and manu and the worst that he's just french...

Now that's a sad, sad post :smokin

[George Gervin's Afro]

sad sad thread
nothing much to discuss about...
but the point is : the better the player is the higher your expectations are...
when TD post 20 and 10 but not playing great D and failing to be clutch you're disappointed... the same goes with manu or tony even the haters knows he can be the key to a victory and when he is they are simply happy and shut their mouths ^^
but when he's not as good as he's most of the time their pissed and they come on ST to have an argument coz they simply don't like him...
I don't even think it'll change no matter how much he improves... you want an argument you got it... enjoy
I just wonder how many of you just dont like the fact that he's young, good looking, rich, talented, has the opportunity to play as a spur alongside TD and manu and the worst that he's just french...


uh..No. :sleep

[spurs_in_7]

4 turnovers in the fourth quarter, 0-2 in OT and his counterpart is lighting him up. Not to mention 3 assists to 6 turnovers. Yeah he's an all-star the same way Shaquille O'Neal is worth 20 million.

This after playing for Jeff Van Gundy last night.
:tu

yes, that egoist beatch want to be the hero of team but is not more than undersized sg, streaky shooter, w/o court vision, w/o 3 pt range, TO prone (specially in critical moments), average defender (at best) and CLUTCHLESS

[stéphane]

sad cause do you honestly think his performance in the last two games is worth such a debate?
I'm aware of tony ups and downs but who would you honestly want in the team in his place? Tim, manu and tony are very different player and that's three different kind of weapons... The only thing they have in common is following the game plan, willing to win, and playing as a team... the ones that still think he's a ballhog are just dumb...
when i read that tony think about the asg more than the ring have to play teamsport before posting...

[George Gervin's Afro]

sad cause do you honestly think his performance in the last two games is worth such a debate?
I'm aware of tony ups and downs but who would you honestly want in the team in his place? Tim, manu and tony are very different player and that's three different kind of weapons... The only thing they have in common is following the game plan, willing to win, and playing as a team... the ones that still think he's a ballhog are just dumb...
when i read that tony think about the asg more than the ring have to play teamsport before posting...


I'm sorry but have you seen him in the playoffs that last few years? He struggles when defenses gear to stop him. This is not uniqe to TP but to deny that he struggles when this happens is :dizzy

[Kori Ellis]

I'm sorry but have you seen him in the playoffs that last few years? He struggles when defenses gear to stop him. This is not uniqe to TP but to deny that he struggles when this happens is :dizzy

When he didn't have a jumpshot, he struggled. And yes, he had tunnel vision at times. But honestly the bashing in this thread is out of control.

Up until last night, he was averaging very very few turnovers this season. Last night, he DID actually pass very well and his teammates missed a lot of layups and 3 pointers. Did he fuck up in the 4th quarter? Yes a couple times. But the Bobcats were also clawing the ball from his hands.

I just don't get when people will be satisfied. You guys are acting like it's the norm that Tony puts his head down and ignores everyone on the team while shooting a sub par percentage and committing a ton of turnovers. And that's crap. People calling him an overrated All-Star in this thread and saying "so what" about his shooting percentage is stupid.

He was the most consistent Spur all last season. He has been the most consistent Spurs so far in this short season. What he's done in the paint has been simply amazing. And his jump shot is looking increasingly better all the time. Last year when he was "chucking" 20 shots a game, Pop said he wanted him to shoot 25.

I just don't get why he gets thrown under the bus so easily. Manu could shoot under 40% for 10 games, make crucial turnovers late in the games, and then have one big 4th quarter and he's annoited. Barry can act passive, 0-for-whatever, and then he knocks down a couple 3's and the people that doubted him are told by the masses to eat crow. Elson can miss rotation after rotation and be constantly pulled aside by teammates and coaches, but Spurs fans think it's cool because he dunks.

But God forbid, Tony have a bad game.

Trade him. :downspin:

[George Gervin's Afro]

When he didn't have a jumpshot, he struggled. And yes, he had tunnel vision at times. But honestly the bashing in this thread is out of control.

Up until last night, he was averaging very very few turnovers this season. Last night, he DID actually pass very well and his teammates missed a lot of layups and 3 pointers. Did he fuck up in the 4th quarter? Yes a couple times. But the Bobcats were also clawing the ball from his hands.

I just don't get when people will be satisfied. You guys are acting like it's the norm that Tony puts his head down and ignores everyone on the team while shooting a sub par percentage and committing a ton of turnovers. And that's crap. People calling him an overrated All-Star in this thread and saying "so what" about his shooting percentage is stupid.

He was the most consistent Spur all last season. He has been the most consistent Spurs so far in this short season. What he's done in the paint has been simply amazing. And his jump shot is looking increasingly better all the time. Last year when he was "chucking" 20 shots a game, Pop said he wanted him to shoot 25.

I just don't get why he gets thrown under the bus so easily. Manu could shoot under 40% for 10 games, make crucial turnovers late in the games, and then have one big 4th quarter and he's annoited. Barry can act passive, 0-for-whatever, and then he knocks down a couple 3's and the people that doubted him are told by the masses to eat crow. Elson can miss rotation after rotation and be constantly pulled aside by teammates and coaches, but Spurs fans think it's cool because he dunks.

But God forbid, Tony have a bad game.

Trade him. :downspin:


Kori expectations are high for Tony. I want him to get better when he cannot drive/dish/and penetrate.. if you notice I have not totally dogged him because I think he is improving. We all know he will see defenses geared to stop in when it counts the most and we all want him to be ready for it and to be able to affect the game without the ball in his hands... Personally I don't like seeing him take 3 pointers but he will and I will have to live with it.. I don't harass anybody else because Tony is the QB and along with that he gets praise when he doesn't deserve it and blame when he does not deserve it either..

[TMTTRIO]

Tony's been playing great this season. Yeah he's had some mistakes but he's the only one who's been consistently playing good and with Manu shooting at a career low % so far (I know it's still really early) I'd rather have Tony with the ball.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Everyone in this forum, especially in this thread needs to grab a copy of Walt Frazier's The Game Within The Game.

Walt's mentality and approach to the game are excatly what Mr. Parker needs. Losing matters especially senseless losses that could easily have been avoided. The only guy on this team that really looks depressed and bothered after a loss is Manu Ginobili (sometimes Tim Duncan).

[Kori Ellis]

The only guy on this team that really looks depressed and bothered after a loss is Manu Ginobili (sometimes Tim Duncan).

If you don't think every Spurs player (except maybe Beno) gets very mad and bothered about losses, you are crazy. They are more hungry and driven to win then anybody posting in the forum about it. Sometimes the players can see the big picture better than fans can, but they definitely get pissed off when they lose.

[cherylsteele]

Everyone in this forum, especially in this thread needs to grab a copy of Walt Frazier's The Game Within The Game.

Walt's mentality and approach to the game are excatly what Mr. Parker needs. Losing matters especially senseless losses that could easily have been avoided. The only guy on this team that really looks depressed and bothered after a loss is Manu Ginobili (sometimes Tim Duncan).
People show disappointment in different ways. Unless you can actually read someone's mind, then you have no room to talk.

I remember seeing many players who never won in their career look disappointed after losing.....didn't do them any good.

[phxspurfan]

If you don't think every Spurs player (except maybe Beno) gets very mad and bothered about losses, you are crazy. They are more hungry and driven to win then anybody posting in the forum about it. Sometimes the players can see the big picture better than fans can, but they definitely get pissed off when they lose.


I'm pretty sure Tony's fine about a close game against an underrated team on the second night of a back-to-back in November. And the reason why:

a. He knows Pop will have extra practice reps for the whole team to make up for this lapse
b. He will have to put in extra time in practice because he is basically a captain and role model
c. Since it's a home game he probably went home with Eva

[ginobili fan]

ok ok o k....
THE GOAL IS SIMPLE:WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP
and to win this year we need:
-Tony keeping his current level and he will have 80% at FT for sure and probably the best FT shooter,the best perimeter shooter, 50% and + at FG % ...Then he will be the most consistent player on playoffs(you will see).Plus, POP give him now total trust
-we need Tim stoping shooting mid-range jumper and pass more the ball when there are 2 or 3 defenders on him instead of trying to finishing because either he will score 1/2 time or having FT but he sucks on the FT line.
-we need ginobili keeping his good defense and his vision of court but I don't see him as explosive as 2005(he's simply getting old)
-we need finley shooting at 50%

[TwoHandJam]

Tony sucked but it looked like he was trying to take a bigger role in crunch time and I think that was by design. People always complain that Tony disappears in the fourth, but that's mostly due to no play calls coming his way. This time Pop went to him in the fourth and Parker had his ups and downs (mostly downs).

However, if you want Parker to come up big in big games, you have to get his feet wet. I'd like to see the Spurs use him more in the fourth in close games as an offensive option so he's ready for that in the playoffs. It'd be nice to have another play at the end of games other than a clear out for Manu.
timvp gets it. That's exactly what I saw last night. Tony was trying to take on a bigger role in crunch time but he blew it. I love Tony and I think he's made tremendous strides but sometimes I wonder if he'll ever really be clutch.

Clutchness seems to be a quality that you either have or you don't. I think it's very difficult to become clutch. Tony seems to make more bad decisions when the pressure is really on than not. Manu may shoot 3-14 on a given night but when he needs to perform in the crunch he usually does, as he did last night. Tony is usually the opposite. The box score will show that he shot 50% but it doesn't show that most of his misses and bad decisions came at crucial times in the game.

Bottom line, we need both Tony and Manu but it would be nice as timvp said to have more guys we can count on in high pressure situations than just Manu and Horry. (Yes, even Timmy isn't highly clutch).

[Kori Ellis]

Manu may shoot 3-14 on a given night but when he needs to perform in the crunch he usually does, as he did last night.

Like missing that WIDE open 3?

[Kori Ellis]

By the way, I'm not saying Manu isn't clutch. But Manu has had more than his fair share of boneheaded turnovers and missed shots in the clutch. Manu has had a lot more chances to be clutch than Tony (which is what LJ is saying).

And now that Tony has a decent jumpshot, Pop will be giving him more chances.

He didn't play well last night by turning over the ball late. But actually the majority of his misses were early in the game (I think he started out 1-for-6). He played well for a good stretch but didn't have it in the end.

Next time he will (or not:lol).

[TwoHandJam]

Like missing that WIDE open 3?
C'mon Kori, you know he clawed us back into that game in the 4th. Missing one clutch shot doesn't make you unclutch. Tony missed several, in a short span. Manu missed that big shot but we wouldn't have been in that position at the end without his playmaking.

[Kori Ellis]

C'mon Kori, you know he clawed us back into that game in the 4th. Missing one clutch shot doesn't make you unclutch. Tony missed several, in a short span. Manu missed that big shot but we wouldn't have been in that position at the end without his playmaking.

Did you read what I wrote in the next post?

[ShoogarBear]

I just don't get why he gets thrown under the bus so easily. Manu could shoot under 40% for 10 games, make crucial turnovers late in the games, and then have one big 4th quarter and he's annoited. Barry can act passive, 0-for-whatever, and then he knocks down a couple 3's and the people that doubted him are told by the masses to eat crow. Elson can miss rotation after rotation and be constantly pulled aside by teammates and coaches, but Spurs fans think it's cool because he dunks.
I've given up on ever believing most people around here will apply equal standards of evaluation to Manu vs. any other Spur. He is the Teflon King.

[TwoHandJam]

By the way, I'm not saying Manu isn't clutch. But Manu has had more than his fair share of boneheaded turnovers and missed shots in the clutch. Manu has had a lot more chances to be clutch than Tony (which is what LJ is saying).
True, but there's a reason Pop gives Manu more chances. He has proven himself to be more reliable than Tony in the crunch.


He didn't play well last night by turning over the ball late. But actually the majority of his misses were early in the game (I think he started out 1-for-6). He played well for a good stretch but didn't have it in the end.

Next time he will (or not:lol).

I hope he gets better under pressure. It's tough to learn how to do this without dropping some tough games, like last night.

[TwoHandJam]

Did you read what I wrote in the next post?
Ok, just did. I hear ya.

[Zunni]

I've given up on ever believing most people around here will apply equal standards of evaluation to Manu vs. any other Spur. He is the Teflon King.
The Teflon Juan. :hat

[SequSpur]

Manu is the reason we lost last year. Take him out of the equation and the spurs have another ring.

[pppp]

sad sad thread
nothing much to discuss about...
but the point is : the better the player is the higher your expectations are...
when TD post 20 and 10 but not playing great D and failing to be clutch you're disappointed... the same goes with manu or tony even the haters knows he can be the key to a victory and when he is they are simply happy and shut their mouths ^^
but when he's not as good as he's most of the time their pissed and they come on ST to have an argument coz they simply don't like him...
I don't even think it'll change no matter how much he improves... you want an argument you got it... enjoy
I just wonder how many of you just dont like the fact that he's young, good looking, rich, talented, has the opportunity to play as a spur alongside TD and manu and the worst that he's just french...

Yeah, I don't get why he is so much hated. I really don't.

It's beyond logic. It's like actual facts (FG%, stats, etc.), common sense or objectivity don't matter anymore.

I thought the basis for all the hate was just the anti-french sentiment that some people had during the preparation of the iraq war....But now it's been proven that the decision was indeed a mistake and the whole thing was a fiasco..I really don't know anymore....

But the one thing I know is that haterz will always hate, whatever he does. Now that's really sad....

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Manu is the reason we lost last year. Take him out of the equation and the spurs have another ring.
Yeah right. Take him out of the equation and Spurs get swept by the Mavs.
Remember how Manu won game 1 on that final defensive play?

and game 5 with his crucial steals?

Without Manu Game 7 equals Spurs getting their asses handed to them by 20 + Points and never getting the lead without Manu to spark that surge. Tim would have been the only one carrying the team while Tony was struggling that series due to his injury during the Kings series.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Yeah, I don't get why he is so much hated. I really don't.

It's beyond logic. It's like actual facts (FG%, stats, etc.), common sense or objectivity don't matter anymore.

I thought the basis for all the hate was just the anti-french sentiment that some people had during the preparation of the iraq war....But now it's been proven that the decision was indeed a mistake and the whole thing was a fiasco..I really don't know anymore....

But the one thing I know is that haterz will always hate, whatever he does. Now that's really sad....
Uh, I thought the French ribbing was in jest. Let's not make a big deal out of this "hate" thing by losing perspective that Spurs fans are spoiled and show bias against Tony since he's came in as that young 19 year old unproven rookie. It's not "real Hate" it's just stupidity. Tony Parker is essential to Spurs success and we take for granted that we NEED him to emerge into his own and he can't do what Tim does, or what Manu does, and no one's being replaced because they all play DIFFERENT POSITIONS. He just has to keep improving, with him gaining a larger role and maturing, so that we have a good chance of winning it all every year for the next three years.

[stéphane]

while we're at it, I was wondering something...
what is the average number of passes the spurs do on O before attempting a shot compared to other teams.
what about the lenght of attacks compared to other teams as well as % of time tony has the ball in his hands per offense...
could illustrate difference between nash role and tp role...

[pppp]

Uh, I thought the French ribbing was in jest. Let's not make a big deal out of this "hate" thing by losing perspective that Spurs fans are spoiled and show bias against Tony since he's came in as that young 19 year old unproven rookie. It's not "real Hate" it's just stupidity. Tony Parker is essential to Spurs success and we take for granted that we NEED him to emerge into his own and he can't do what Tim does, or what Manu does, and no one's being replaced because they all play DIFFERENT POSITIONS. He just has to keep improving, with him gaining a larger role and maturing, so that we have a good chance of winning it all every year for the next three years.
I see your point and I mostly agree. But I'm afraid there's people out there who just hate the guy....


No, im not angry. I'm just surprised at the Tony Parker d*ckriding in this board. He's a selfish player who only cares about his stats and Manu is wayyy better than him.

Yeah he's an all-star the same way Shaquille O'Neal is worth 20 million.

Even when we win, I'm not satisfied with TP

...Tony was a bit overrated, because he was leading the league in points in the paint (which was due to his quickness, not high bball IQ)

what shot are you talkin about? ive been waitin for this for the last few seasons ever since he started to bring this up about shooting, thats what he said last season, the season b4, the season b4 that.........only shots his practicing is bukake shots...

now you all know why i hate tp, and some of you clowns calling me out last time....

[cherylsteele]

Manu is the reason we lost last year. Take him out of the equation and the spurs have another ring.
Take him out of the equation and we don't win in 2005...and probably 2003.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I see your point and I mostly agree. But I'm afraid there's people out there who just hate the guy....
Ahh, yeah. I think they're deluded. I never heard of "hating" a player on your own team, unless it was the Lakers--or if someone's a cancer and contributing to a loss. Tony Parker is a good team guy and only follows Pop's orders, he has questionable leadership skills, but that's Horry, Finley, and Timmy's job currently. I think criticism was welcome in the past, because he just kind of lacked that maturity--and being around Tim and Spurs veterans who bring so much expectation, and the emergence of Manu in 2005--there's been this unfortunate precedent against Tony since 2003, where any mental mistake is scrutinized while Tim and Manu get off the hook.

As for those quotes, Heh, I've only been posting earlier this year, but I think only on here have I realized that there's actual "contempt" for our own players. I mean, as a fan, it's ok, to question the play of some players like Beno, or a hesitance on Barry's part throughout the season. Or at times to call even our favorite players a bum in the heat of the moment. (Like Tim :lol)Let's not be blind homers--but to root against players? and wait for them to fail to gloat? It's a weird, new concept to me. This board has mental issues! :lol

[BigVee]

Most fans expect perfection which is unrealistic. They want Manu to bring the team back from a huge deficit by himself, expend all the energy and then be perfect in the last 10 seconds. Or, they want Tony to make all the spectacular moves to the basket, but never screw up while doing what most players can't do. If Tony is given more "clutch time" opportunities, he will learn what Manu and Tim already know. The more chances you have to be clutch, the more chances you have to fail. If the effort is there, they cannot do more.

[pppp]

Ahh, yeah. I think they're deluded. I never heard of "hating" a player on your own team, unless it was the Lakers--or if someone's a cancer and contributing to a loss. Tony Parker is a good team guy and only follows Pop's orders, he has questionable leadership skills, but that's Horry, Finley, and Timmy's job currently. I think criticism was welcome in the past, because he just kind of lacked that maturity--and being around Tim and Spurs veterans who bring so much expectation, and the emergence of Manu in 2005--there's been this unfortunate precedent against Tony since 2003, where any mental mistake is scrutinized while Tim and Manu get off the hook.

As for those quotes, Heh, I've only been posting earlier this year, but I think only on here have I realized that there's actual "contempt" for our own players. I mean, as a fan, it's ok, to question the play of some players like Beno, or a hesitance on Barry's part throughout the season. Or at times to call even our favorite players a bum in the heat of the moment. (Like Tim :lol)Let's not be blind homers--but to root against players? and wait for them to fail to gloat? It's a weird, new concept to me. This board has mental issues! :lol
:tu

[pichichi63]

shame on you to always criticize tony parker!!!! if the spurs win and tony make a big game, it's thanks to defense and bench production! If the spurs lose it's because of tony who dont' pass the ball at Maaaaannnnuuuuuuuu!!!!!

You don't have objective viewpoint!!!!!!

Tony Parker
06-07 SAS 8 8 35.5 .522 .625 .733 0.4 2.8 3.1 5.0 1.0 0.1 2.38 1.60 22.3

Manu Ginobili
06-07 SAS 8 8 32.0 .385 .313 .829 1.0 4.6 5.6 4.0 0.9 0.5 2.13 2.30 13.6

[George Gervin's Afro]

Love all of the holier than thou rhetoric but is it to much to ask for that our point guard make better decisions late in the game? Is it to much to ask for that if he cannot contribute offensively he find another way to help the team? I guess it's the 'haters' like me that expect 'perfection' but in all honesty when a pattern emerges can we at least debate it without the condescencion? The last time I checked we can all disgree and be correct at the same time.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Most fans expect perfection which is unrealistic. They want Manu to bring the team back from a huge deficit by himself, expend all the energy and then be perfect in the last 10 seconds. Or, they want Tony to make all the spectacular moves to the basket, but never screw up while doing what most players can't do. If Tony is given more "clutch time" opportunities, he will learn what Manu and Tim already know. The more chances you have to be clutch, the more chances you have to fail. If the effort is there, they cannot do more.



Perfection? No better decision making? You bet. TP has actually improved in his decision making from last year however his penchant for turning the ball over late in the game is still there.. No hating on TP but some of us are concerned

[pichichi63]

Remenber game 7 of the 2006 Playoffs???

Who sucked??? Tony or Maaannnnnnnnnuuuuuuuuuu???????

[stéphane]

Remenber game 7 of the 2006 Playoffs???

Who sucked??? Tony or Maaannnnnnnnnuuuuuuuuuu???????

pichichi you scored too many goals with your head... as a result you're as smart as pig...
your statements aren't any better than tp's haters ones...
go to bed

[pppp]

Perfection? No better decision making? You bet. TP has actually improved in his decision making from last year however his penchant for turning the ball over late in the game is still there.. No hating on TP but some of us are concerned

It's still early in the season so it's a little too early to conclude anything. let's wait & see. So far TP has been (way) more an asset than a liability.

However, criticism for his TOs late in the 4th is justified for this game. He did turn the ball over. He still has lots of things to learn and needs to develop his decision making ability in theses circumstances.

But the thing is that he just can't have a break, no matter has good he has been playing lately. No other spurs player gets this kind of treatment. You people will never get satisfied. :rolleyes

[smeagol]

Hatng on TP because his play was subpar in ONE FREIKING game is stupid.

Hating on Manu to defend TP (what ducks does all the time) or hating on TP to defend Manu (what many Argies do) is also stupid.

[ducks]

wow... one loss after going 6-1 in NOVEMBER!! and everyone is jumping off cliffs. I CAN'T BELIEVE WE'RE BACK TO THIS TONY vs MANU BULLSHIT AGAIN!! I'm not surprised to see ducks and his moronic comments in here, but the people who keep saying Manu is better than Tony... WHERE IS THE PROOF?? I'm about the biggest Manu fan in here, with a few exceptions, and its freaking obvious that Tony is the better player right now, and just because he had ONE turnover prone game doesn't change a damn thing.

I can't believe Tony hasn't proven himself in the your eyes people!! What the hell does he have to do? average 30pts per game?? Sure, he could improve his assists per game, but damn! its not like the dude isn't playing out of his mind as of late!
good post :fro

[hitmanyr2k]

When he didn't have a jumpshot, he struggled. And yes, he had tunnel vision at times. But honestly the bashing in this thread is out of control.

Up until last night, he was averaging very very few turnovers this season. Last night, he DID actually pass very well and his teammates missed a lot of layups and 3 pointers. Did he fuck up in the 4th quarter? Yes a couple times. But the Bobcats were also clawing the ball from his hands.

I just don't get when people will be satisfied. You guys are acting like it's the norm that Tony puts his head down and ignores everyone on the team while shooting a sub par percentage and committing a ton of turnovers. And that's crap. People calling him an overrated All-Star in this thread and saying "so what" about his shooting percentage is stupid.

He was the most consistent Spur all last season. He has been the most consistent Spurs so far in this short season. What he's done in the paint has been simply amazing. And his jump shot is looking increasingly better all the time. Last year when he was "chucking" 20 shots a game, Pop said he wanted him to shoot 25.

I just don't get why he gets thrown under the bus so easily. Manu could shoot under 40% for 10 games, make crucial turnovers late in the games, and then have one big 4th quarter and he's annoited. Barry can act passive, 0-for-whatever, and then he knocks down a couple 3's and the people that doubted him are told by the masses to eat crow. Elson can miss rotation after rotation and be constantly pulled aside by teammates and coaches, but Spurs fans think it's cool because he dunks.

But God forbid, Tony have a bad game.

Trade him. :downspin:

I think people will only be satisfied with Tony Parker when he's completely proven. When the day comes where Tony Parker can get through a championship run without having his duties thrust on someone else because he's choking all the criticisms and second guessing will stop. When you're proven you tend to get that "teflon" shield. Ask Robert Horry. He can suck all year long but as long as he's hitting those big shots in May and June with the world watching all those crap games November through March are forgotten.

That's the difference between Ginobili and Parker....

When Parker has a bad game it drudges up memories of his past failures and disappearing acts during the title runs. The critics will always have the questions in the back of their minds. Will he still be turnover prone when the pressure is on? Will that jumpshot (or free throw) go in when the game is hanging in the balance? Regardless of the regular season those questions are valid.

Contrast to that, Ginobili gets annointed every 4th quarter comeback because it brings back memories of big games in April-June where he's proven. He's now the Argentine version of Robert Horry with the teflon shield. He can have sub-par games in November because everyone expects him to step it up come playoff time and repeat past success.

It's not fair but that's the way it is.

[itzsoweezee]

he had three assists b/c noone else coudl make a freaking basket.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I think people will only be satisfied with Tony Parker when he's completely proven. When the day comes where Tony Parker can get through a championship run without having his duties thrust on someone else because he's choking all the criticisms and second guessing will stop. When you're proven you tend to get that "teflon" shield. Ask Robert Horry. He can suck all year long but as long as he's hitting those big shots in May and June with the world watching all those crap games November through March are forgotten.

That's the difference between Ginobili and Parker....

When Parker has a bad game it drudges up memories of his past failures and disappearing acts during the title runs. The critics will always have the questions in the back of their minds. Will he still be turnover prone when the pressure is on? Will that jumpshot (or free throw) go in when the game is hanging in the balance? Regardless of the regular season those questions are valid.

Contrast to that, Ginobili gets annointed every 4th quarter comeback because it brings back memories of big games in April-June where he's proven. He's now the Argentine version of Robert Horry with the teflon shield. He can have sub-par games in November because everyone expects him to step it up come playoff time and repeat past success.

It's not fair but that's the way it is.


It's not just this seaon that people are referring to when mentioning their frustrations with TP. You can look back through the playoffs starting in 03 when TP didn't play in the 4th qtr of Game 6 or last year in game 4 when he had 5 turnovers in the first half..and we lost by one point.. I can think back to one particular sequence in game 4 last year..

2 minutes left in tbe 3rd qtr and the Spurs are up by 10.... I notice that TP is the only starter on the floor.. I think to myself "Tony don't do anything stupid we need to keep this lead:

the next 3 possessions..TP dribbles into the lane 1 on 5 turnover that leads to a fast break and a layup..

next possession TP dribbles the ball for about 20 seconds then takes an off balance 20+ footer.. miss fast break layup..

very next possession TP dribble into the lane again 1 on 5 shot is blocked ..fast break the other way ..Dirk for 3...

end of qtr lead for Spurs..3 points...

I was livid but I also could sense what was going to happen...

[z0sa]

^ Exactly my point. TP doesn't have the feel for it yet, no matter how good he is, he's still just too young. You've got to know when to get your teammates involved cause your struggling. That means, letting them dribble the ball, and pass it around when Parker might not even get a touch except to throw it in to Duncan, etc. The argument that people are missing is a good one, but when TP is dominating the ball and not trying to get Finley more involved since he was so hot, for example, should be a good enough counter argument. TP's 20 footer isn't THAT good yet. Sadly, hes going to be a ballhog and we're just going to have to live with that.

[ginobili fan]

^ Exactly my point. TP doesn't have the feel for it yet, no matter how good he is, he's still just too young. You've got to know when to get your teammates involved cause your struggling. That means, letting them dribble the ball, and pass it around when Parker might not even get a touch except to throw it in to Duncan, etc. The argument that people are missing is a good one, but when TP is dominating the ball and not trying to get Finley more involved since he was so hot, for example, should be a good enough counter argument. TP's 20 footer isn't THAT good yet. Sadly, hes going to be a ballhog and we're just going to have to live with that.

But the problem is that the hog is you because you don't understand that tony is just doing what POP ask kim to do:sometimes he is successful(most of the time) and sometimes he fails like last night.That's all!!!!! there is no question to debate like f**king stupid HOG or as though it was a philosophy exam :ihit :hungry: :greedy :downspin: :bang :bang :bang :bang

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Love all of the holier than thou rhetoric but is it to much to ask for that our point guard make better decisions late in the game? Is it to much to ask for that if he cannot contribute offensively he find another way to help the team? I guess it's the 'haters' like me that expect 'perfection' but in all honesty when a pattern emerges can we at least debate it without the condescencion? The last time I checked we can all disgree and be correct at the same time.
Eh, I've been on Parker's case for a while. I'm not calling anyone out specifically for being haters, but it was one frickin' game! Tony's been fine so far and his TO's have been down. And all the Spurs played shitty that night, so why single Tony out, when you already know he had a bad night, and wasn't exactly making the best decisions.
I doubt the expectations we put on Parker will ever be fully met, (some things can't be taught--like clutchness) and I really blame Pop for all the mess that happens with Tony chucking 25 shots, and the other teams capitalizing on his misses. We know the future is Tony, and maybe that's why Pop is using, nay, exploiting Parker's youth as if he were able to carry the Spurs in the regular season already.
The problem I have had with Tony in the past was how the stronger defenses know his game and read it nine times out of ten to frustrate him. He can be shut down offensively. With Manu and Tim, their games aren't see easy to eliminate as Tony's has been. He can have good, decent stat lines in games we lose, which I think the Tony Homers fail to see as evident of Tony lacking that gamechanger quality.
I have no problem with criticizing Tony, or any other players, but like someone said earlier, one measly sign of a weakness on Tony's part coupled with a Spurs regular loss--and we get thread that overblow the whole "problem with Tony" thing. He's reaching the point where he's doing more good than bad, especially now that he's becoming a consistent FT shooter.

[ginobili fan]

And I'm pretty sure that if POP ask him to just pass the ball all the time, TP will all the same hane just 5 assists/game because with spurs system, it's IMPOSSIBLE to make 10assist/game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK?????? do you understand?????? IF you're not happy,support the SUNS!!!!! :ihit :bang :bang

[ducks]

It's not just this seaon that people are referring to when mentioning their frustrations with TP. You can look back through the playoffs starting in 03 when TP didn't play in the 4th qtr of Game 6 or last year in game 4 when he had 5 turnovers in the first half..and we lost by one point.. I can think back to one particular sequence in game 4 last year..

2 minutes left in tbe 3rd qtr and the Spurs are up by 10.... I notice that TP is the only starter on the floor.. I think to myself "Tony don't do anything stupid we need to keep this lead:

the next 3 possessions..TP dribbles into the lane 1 on 5 turnover that leads to a fast break and a layup..

next possession TP dribbles the ball for about 20 seconds then takes an off balance 20+ footer.. miss fast break layup..

very next possession TP dribble into the lane again 1 on 5 shot is blocked ..fast break the other way ..Dirk for 3...

end of qtr lead for Spurs..3 points...

I was livid but I also could sense what was going to happen...


did you watch kidd at that age :ihit

[Texas_Ranger]

Tony will never be the best point guard, if he don`t start making more assists. Until then Kidd, Baron Davis... are better.

[ducks]

duncan said they missed to many layups last game
but i GUESS IF KIDD PASSED THEM THE BALL INSTEAD THEY WOULD HAVE WENT IN

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

duncan said they missed to many layups last game
but i GUESS IF KIDD PASSED THEM THE BALL INSTEAD THEY WOULD HAVE WENT IN
You can't blame assists on the players who don't make their shots all the time, take Steve Nash out of the suns everyone starts clunking their shots and they become a 20 win team again. I mean, Manu got in 7 assists that game when they were shooting piss poor. Sometimes other players are better at seeing a play and getting the ball to their teammates at the right time. I think Parker is getting flak for missing opportunities when there'd be a wide open player. Not just in this game, but during many stretches each game.

[Lady M]

Manu got in 7 assists that game when they were shooting piss poor.
how many passes for TP?

[Mavs<Spurs]

this is kind of gay to have to do our annual tony vs manu and bash tony parker.

I have some criticisms of Tony Parker, but he is about as good a point guard as there is in the league and is only 24.

My biggest criticism of Tony now is when he plays like Allen Iverson, but at least his field goal percentage is vastly better than AI.

I wish that Tony would create more for others. I do think that when Tony is not scoring, he is not really helping the team. Manu does create more opportunities for others and can help the team without having to score.

Nevertheless, defenses do have to set out to stop Tony's penetration, he is shooting around 50 percent for the year, as he did last year. Therefore, it is ridiculous to jump all over Tony. After all, if Tony shoots 50 % from the field and the others shoot 35%, then the numbers suggest Tony should shoot more than the others.

Tony has greatly improved his perimeter jumpshot and I am now comfortable when he is shooting free throws or taking outside jumpshots. That was his single biggest weakness and in one year, it is now a strength. Combine that with his tear dropper and his general ability to get into the lane and score or collapse the defense and you have a player who is almost unguardable.

There is no other point guard in the league that is playing much better than Tony. Tony has earned the right to be in the conversation when we are talking about the best point guards in the game. He is only 24. Considering all of this and what he has accomplished, there is no one out there who we would or should trade Tony Parker for who plays point guard. That should end the debate and stop the people from throwing Tony under the bus. Tony was an all star last year, will be an all star this year and for many years to come.
He is a terrific point guard, just not perfected.

For all the Tony haters, what other point guard would you trade for Tony Parker? Nash- age? Kidd- outside shot, age ?


Finally, hopefully, Kori, you were not saying that you think that Tony has outplayed Tim Duncan this year, because I think that it is fairly obvious that this is not the case. Not only do I prefer Tim's numbers, but lest we forget, there are two sides to play, offense and defense, not to mention that the very first thing that teams must try to stop is not Tony Parker, it is Tim Duncan. A healthy Tim Duncan is always the best player for the Spurs.

[SenorSpur]

Pop just "torn Tony a new one" for doing the very thing that he's been getting criticized for - putting his head down and barreling into traffic when he's got open shooters on the wings.

It must've worked because the next three possessions, he's consciously looked for the open shooters of his drive.

[SequSpur]

parker > avery johnson