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tekdragon
11-16-2006, 01:38 PM
SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/marty_burns/11/15/bowen.reputation/)

The Dirt on Bowen
Does Spurs stopper cross the line with feisty defense?

Posted: Thursday November 16, 2006 11:15AM; Updated: Thursday November 16, 2006 1:21PM

Last Saturday's on-court confrontation between Knicks coach Isiah Thomas and Spurs forward Bruce Bowen renewed an old question about a three-time member of the NBA All-Defensive first team:

Is Bowen a dirty player?

To be specific, is Bowen's habit of sticking his wingtips under his man when he's attempting a jumper intentional? Or is it merely the byproduct of a hard-nosed defender giving his all to contest a shot?

A sampling of former players turned NBA executives produced generally favorable views of Bowen's play. Yet while acknowledging that Bowen might come close to crossing the line, no one was willing to completely condemn "Eddie Scissorhands" (as Phil Jackson once dubbed Bowen) for his questionable tactics.

"He's a very tough, hard-nosed defender who crowds you and tries to get under your skin," said an Eastern Conference general manager who spoke on condition of anonymity. "He's basically a pest.

"[But] I don't think he's sticking his foot out intentionally. He's a defensive player. He does what he can to bother you and throw you off your game. But knowing him and knowing his character, I don't think he'd go out there and intentionally try to hurt somebody."

Said another East executive: "I see it as just a guy playing hard defense. Does he grab, hold and play physically? Yeah. But is he perceived around the league as a guy who goes out to hurt people? I don't think so."

Bowen's defensive tactics came to light again after Knicks guard Steve Francis landed on the defensive ace's foot while attempting a jump shot in a game at Madison Square Garden on Nov. 6. Francis sprained his ankle and missed three games.

Bowen has been accused before, most notably by Vince Carter and Ray Allen, of sticking his foot underneath shooters, and his reputation apparently wasn't lost on Thomas. When asked the day after the game what he would have done as a player had an opponent stuck his foot underneath his when attempting a shot, the Knicks' coach/GM said: "I'd beat the --- out of somebody. Really, I would --- murder them. ... There's certain things you don't do."

So perhaps it wasn't surprising that five nights later, in the team's rematch at San Antonio, Thomas went ballistic when he thought he saw Bowen stick his Nikes under Knicks guard Jamal Crawford on a jumper. An irate Thomas immediately pointed at Bowen on the court. The two exchanged words, with Bowen later accusing Thomas of having threatened to "break his neck." (Thomas denies having said that, though he acknowledges he told his players, "Next time he does that, break his ------- foot.")

Thomas also exchanged angry words with Spurs coach Gregg Popovich, though after the game the two met at midcourt and shook hands.

Bowen, who would rather drink Clorox than talk about the subject, downplayed the incident. Still, temperatures in the AT&T Center were raised high enough that even Tim Duncan felt compelled to criticize Thomas for having created a scene.

"It's a bad situation when a coach puts himself in that position and goes after a player," Duncan said. "It's very uncalled for. I don't know what his intentions were with that and we have bigger plans than trying to hurt somebody. I would hope that people would understand and respect that and obviously they don't."

While the incident itself has blown over (the NBA reviewed the play and determined no penalties were in order), the larger issue about Bowen -- and what constitutes good defense as opposed to dirty play -- remains.

There is no doubt that a player sticking his foot under another player is a good way to throw off a shooter -- and potentially wreck a career. As one Western Conference executive who played in the NBA said: "If you think you're going to land on a [defender's] foot, you're not going to be able to shoot the ball in rhythm. It takes you right out of your follow-through. ... But it's a dangerous play. You can easily get hurt."

Yet the executive refused to say Bowen was doing it intentionally. "I really couldn't say," he said. "I don't know him. I don't know if he was taught or coached or drilled [on how to defend]. But there's no evidence he's doing it intentionally so you have to give him the benefit of the doubt."

Those who do know Bowen say there is no way he would ever try to hurt an opponent. They point to his incredible rags-to-riches tale of a disadvantaged kid who went undrafted out of Cal State Fullerton making it as a key contributor for an NBA champion. They cite his sparkling reputation off the court, his long list of charitable deeds in the community. They also say the Spurs' organization would not tolerate it.

"If anything Bruce is too nice," said a close friend and former NBA teammate of Bowen's who also wished to remain anonymous. "If he were an a------, nobody would say anything about him. They'd be afraid he'd punch them in the face. ... But Bruce isn't like that, so Vince Carter and Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton feel they can say what they want about him.

"But, trust me, I've known Bruce for a long time. There's not a dirty bone in his body."

In some ways Bowen might be a victim of his own success. As one GM pointed out, there are other players who push the envelope defensively -- such as Eric Snow, Raja Bell and Ruben Patterson -- but don't get the same scrutiny. The GM also noted that Bowen defends the other team's top scorer every night, making it more likely he'll be involved in confrontations with high-profile players like Carter or Allen.

The GM went on to raise an interesting statistical argument: Let's say Bowen defends the other team's top scorer each night, and that the scorer attempts 20 shots per game. If Bowen actively contests half those shots, he's looking at 820 times per season (10 shots x 82 games) where he's flying out at his man trying to get a hand in his face. Over the span of five years, that's 4,100 plays.

"How many times has he been accused of [sticking his foot underneath] over that time span? Four or five? Out of [4,000] plays?," the GM notes. "When you look at it like that, it doesn't seem like it's intentional."

Perhaps the best argument in Bowen's defense, however, is that the NBA has never seen fit to punish him. The league has cracked down hard in recent years on fighting and flagrant fouls in a clear effort to eliminate the old justice system in which players took matters into their own hands on the court. Yet so far discipline czar Stu Jackson has seen nothing to warrant any penalty -- though he did phone Bowen on Sunday to warn him to watch his feet in the future.

Chris Childs
11-16-2006, 01:43 PM
I think Bowens defense reflects his personality as well. I really think he's a sloppy dirty human being. Thats just my opinion.

lefty
11-16-2006, 01:59 PM
I think Bowens defense reflects his personality as well. I really think he's a sloppy dirty human being. Thats just my opinion.

Yeah, just by looking at your signature, I can tell you are a good person ; always talking about hitting players, about punching Kobe...
Knicks are just a bunch of losers and whiners ; and Isiah should take a look back on some dirty tricks he used as a player before opening his mouth ; he wasn't an angel

Phenomanul
11-16-2006, 02:18 PM
The numbers at the end of the article pretty much summarize what most of us have been saying... the probabilies that players get hurt while being guarded by Bowen is approximately 0.12%... Hardly numbers that suggest Bowen is hurting people on purpose.

Chris Childs
11-16-2006, 02:23 PM
Yeah, just by looking at your signature, I can tell you are a good person ; always talking about hitting players, about punching Kobe...
Knicks are just a bunch of losers and whiners ; and Isiah should take a look back on some dirty tricks he used as a player before opening his mouth ; he wasn't an angel

Actually I am a good person. It's just when somebody tries to provoke me, they get the same treatment that I gave Kobe.....
How can you say the knicks are a bunch of whiners and losers when you have somebody name Tim Duncan on your boring squad? And Isiah was never a dirty player it just seem like that because he was on that dirty bad boy team with laimbeer mahorn rodman and other dirty flucks.

ObiwanGinobili
11-16-2006, 02:37 PM
I think Bowens defense reflects his personality as well. He is a hard worker, determined, focused, and a decent respectable human being. Thats just my opinion.


there. thats better and makes much more sense given the article we all just read. :fro

Bruno
11-16-2006, 02:49 PM
Bowen a "sloppy dirty human being" ? :lmao

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA122505.1C.BKNspurs.bowen.2a96a10.html


The NBA requires each player to make 12 community appearances each season. With a week left in 2005, Bowen has made 44.

Chris Childs
11-16-2006, 02:51 PM
there. thats better and makes much more sense given the article we all just read. :fro

This is what I should of said:
I think Bowens defense reflects his personality as well. I really think he's a sloppy dirty human being. THATS A FACT!!!!!!!!!!!

2Cleva
11-16-2006, 03:00 PM
Bowen a "sloppy dirty human being" ? :lmao

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA122505.1C.BKNspurs.bowen.2a96a10.html

Props to Bowen for that.

:clap

lefty
11-16-2006, 03:22 PM
How can you say the knicks are a bunch of whiners and losers when you have somebody name Tim Duncan on your boring squad? And Isiah was never a dirty player it just seem like that because he was on that dirty bad boy team with laimbeer mahorn rodman and other dirty flucks.

Because Tim Duncan is not a loser ; he led that "boring squad" to 3 titles

How many Pistons games did u watch? Isiah was not an angel ; Alvin Robertson, a good guy, almost punched him if it wasn't for the refs restraining him

cornbread
11-16-2006, 03:40 PM
"Other players, like Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade and Peja Stojakovic, appear to enjoy the challenge of going against Bowen." Johnny Luden

The national media does not like to give attention to this side of the story. They see no compelling storylines if great players show respect for Bruce's playing.

island_dude
11-16-2006, 06:19 PM
And Isiah was never a dirty player it just seem like that because he was on that dirty bad boy team with laimbeer mahorn rodman and other dirty flucks.

I'm no fan of some of Bowens' tactics either, but don't kid yourself, Isiah was no choir boy himself during his playing days. Don't let his clean cut baby faced looks fool you, he was just as dirty as the other bad boys. Just ask some of the players who played against him during that era.

Notorious H.O.P.
11-16-2006, 07:05 PM
How many Pistons games did u watch? Isiah was not an angel ; Alvin Robertson, a good guy, almost punched him if it wasn't for the refs restraining him

I loved Alvin Robertson as a player. One of my favorite Spurs at that time. But I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't consider him a good guy.

He's done time on multiple occasions for beating up women. That doesn't fit my definition of a good guy. Great player but poor human being.

Bruce is a good player but a great person. He knows his role, both on and off the court and he executes it with excellence.

lefty
11-16-2006, 08:31 PM
Wow, I was unaware of the wife beating

samikeyp
11-16-2006, 09:19 PM
A former player and current exec says he can't determine intent by watching Bowen yet there are a number of "experts" who post here and just know Bowen is doing it intentionally just by watching and also not knowing Bowen.

Interesting.

ShoogarBear
11-16-2006, 09:25 PM
Weak. You can find "former players and execs" who didn't think Karl Malone did anything intentionally, too.

ShoogarBear
11-16-2006, 09:33 PM
Oh, and before somebody says it, nowhere did I say that Bowen is comparable to Malone. Just that you can always find somebody to rationalize just about anything.

samikeyp
11-16-2006, 09:35 PM
Agreed. But I will still have more faith in the opinion of someone like that who has been there as opposed who those who haven't.




Except for you Shoog....your knowledge is the stuff of legend. :)

ShoogarBear
11-16-2006, 09:37 PM
Except for you Shoog....your knowledge is the stuff of sarcasm. :)Fixed.

samikeyp
11-16-2006, 09:40 PM
:lol

jmard5
11-16-2006, 09:41 PM
Actually I am a good person. It's just when somebody tries to provoke me, they get the same treatment that I gave Kobe.....
How can you say the knicks are a bunch of whiners and losers when you have somebody name Tim Duncan on your boring squad? And Isiah was never a dirty player it just seem like that because he was on that dirty bad boy team with laimbeer mahorn rodman and other dirty flucks.

Nah. Childs and Thomas were just protecting themselves. Right? :lol

PM5K
11-16-2006, 09:42 PM
I just don't understand how Thomas didn't get in any trouble for the things he said, but guys are getting fined for wearing their wrist bands too high....

ShoogarBear
11-16-2006, 09:43 PM
I just don't understand how Thomas didn't get in any trouble for the things he said, but guys are getting fined for wearing their wrist bands too high....Agreed. With all the cracking down Stern is trying to do, he risks creating even more problems if he's not consistent.

jmard5
11-16-2006, 09:47 PM
Agreed. With all the cracking down Stern is trying to do, he risks creating even more problems if he's not consistent.

Agree. With all the attention focused by the league at Cuban for his blogs, I was expecting the league had to do something with Thomas' tirade on the court.