To get the #2 spot, does USC have to...

[samikeyp]

win big or just win against ND?

I think they will have no problem with UCLA but ND could give them a game. Personally I don't think margin of victory should count and technically its not supposed to but pollsters tend to throw it in there.

I think if SC wins out...they should be #2.

[johngateswhiteley]

...all they have to do is win, margin does not matter. look at the numbers.

[samikeyp]

You always here from the pollsters and BCS people that "margin of victory doesn't matter" yet they always vote as if it does.

Yet another reason a playoff is needed.

[NoMoneyDown]

Just win. Beating the #5 team will give them more than enough points to take over Michigan, IMHO, regardless of how much they win by.

[JoeChalupa]

Even if they beat ND I still say Michigan is better than USC.

[JamStone]

I'm a Michigan fan, but I'll be as impartial as I can be.

I think USC has to win decisively over Notre Dame to take the #2 spot from Michigan.

Michigan beat Notre Dame 47-21 AT SOUTH BEND. So, now USC faces an common opponent with Michigan. It might be at different points in the season, but still, some coaches will look at how well USC plays against a team that Michigan destroyed on the road.

If USC barely beats Notre Dame at home, I think some coaches might take that into consideration.

You also have to look at a couple of USC close wins against Arizona and Washington at home, particularly the win over Washington. Washington is a 5-7 team, and USC beat them by 6 at home.

Michigan lost to the best team in the country on the road by 3 points. And, that was their only loss.

Now, personally, even as a Michigan alum and fan, I don't believe Michigan should go to the National Championship game. They had their chance in Columbus and didn't get it done. But, that doesn't mean the coaches won't think differently.

Especially being at home, I think USC should beat Notre Dame by 10 pts to make a stronger argument for being the second best team in the country and merit an invitation to Glendale.

Actually, I think Arkansas might be the the most deserving team to face Ohio State as long as they beat Florida. But, I still think Michigan is a better team than Arkansas.

Yes, I am a little biased, but that's how I view it. USC needs to have a decisive win.

[NoMoneyDown]

Even if they beat ND I still say Michigan is better than USC.

I agree. Actually, I think there are several teams better than USC, regardless of what happens vs. Notre Dame (who I feel isn't that good, either).

[tlongII]

I think both USC and Michigan are deserving of a shot at the BCS Championship provided USC wins out. I wouldn't have a problem with either team getting into the game.

[johngateswhiteley]

I'm a Michigan fan, but I'll be as impartial as I can be.

I think USC has to win decisively over Notre Dame to take the #2 spot from Michigan.

Michigan beat Notre Dame 47-21 AT SOUTH BEND. So, now USC faces an common opponent with Michigan. It might be at different points in the season, but still, some coaches will look at how well USC plays against a team that Michigan destroyed on the road.

If USC barely beats Notre Dame at home, I think some coaches might take that into consideration.

You also have to look at a couple of USC close wins against Arizona and Washington at home, particularly the win over Washington. Washington is a 5-7 team, and USC beat them by 6 at home.

Michigan lost to the best team in the country on the road by 3 points. And, that was their only loss.

Now, personally, even as a Michigan alum and fan, I don't believe Michigan should go to the National Championship game. They had their chance in Columbus and didn't get it done. But, that doesn't mean the coaches won't think differently.

Especially being at home, I think USC should beat Notre Dame by 10 pts to make a stronger argument for being the second best team in the country and merit an invitation to Glendale.

Actually, I think Arkansas might be the the most deserving team to face Ohio State as long as they beat Florida. But, I still think Michigan is a better team than Arkansas.

Yes, I am a little biased, but that's how I view it. USC needs to have a decisive win.


...i just don't see it that way.

1. its different match ups
2. its different points in the season
3. its a much bigger game for both teams, USC vs. ND is much bigger than Michigan vs. ND

that being said, i truly believe a 1 point win would elevate USC past Michigan...a win is a win is a win.

btw, you haven't blown through your season either. closer than should have been games against: Ball State, Penn State, & Northwestern. WASHINGTON LOST THEIR STARTING QB, so their season has taken a tumble. AND ARIZONA JUST BEAT CAL AND OREGON.

you can say whatever you want, but michigan will be in the rose bowl with two 1 point wins by USC to close out the season.

[JamStone]

Notre Dame was ranked #2 in the nation when Michigan beat Notre Dame AT SOUTH BEND.

Arizona beat Cal at ARIZONA.

Michigan was beating Ball State by 19 points when they put their second and third string defenses in that made it a close game.

Penn State was AT PENN STATE. Penn State is still a good team.

The Northwestern game was a bad game. It was raining, and neither team could get the passing game going.


Again, I don't think Michigan should be in the National Championship game. I'm just saying if USC only beats Notre Dame by a touchdown or less, I don't think they will be ranked higher than Michigan.

[johngateswhiteley]

Notre Dame was ranked #2 in the nation when Michigan beat Notre Dame AT SOUTH BEND.

Arizona beat Cal at ARIZONA.

Michigan was beating Ball State by 19 points when they put their second and third string defenses in that made it a close game.

Penn State was AT PENN STATE. Penn State is still a good team.

The Northwestern game was a bad game. It was raining, and neither team could get the passing game going.


Again, I don't think Michigan should be in the National Championship game. I'm just saying if USC only beats Notre Dame by a touchdown or less, I don't think they will be ranked higher than Michigan.

1. notre dame was overrated
2. arizona still beat Cal, who cares where it was at
3. its still Ball State
4. penn state is a good team, but only beating them by 7 is nothing to brag about...no matter where the game was played
5. its northwestern

...look all i am saying is that you have had your games where you were not great either, big deal. i'll take a healthy Washington, Oregon State, and Washington State team over Ball State, Penn State, and Northwestern ANYDAY! the only team that MIGHT be able to win against those pac-10 teams is Penn State....maybe.

[JamStone]

If Notre Dame is overrated and if USC is better than Michigan, then blow Notre Dame out. It's as simple as that. Common opponent. And, Michigan beat Notre Dame AT SOUTH BEND when they were ranked no. 2 in the nation.

You believe USC is better than Michigan, fine. Beat Notre Dame by 10+ points at home. Heck, I'm not even asking for a 2 TD+ win. Just beat them by more than a touchdown and a half and prove that USC deserves to be in the NC game.

It's not that hard.

By the way, you're crazy if you don't think Penn State at home isn't tough. Happy Valley is a crazy place to play. Any road game in the Big Ten is tough.

Ball State game was bad. I understand that. They should have blown them out. Up 19 points midway through the third quarter is well on the way to a blowout. Second string and third string defensive guys let up. There were other circumstances to that game as well, but it will sound like more excuses. Michigan should have won by a greater margin.

As for Northwestern, I know sunny California doesn't have the weather problems the midwest does in October and November, so you probably don't understand what a serious downpour can do to affect a game. But, it basically eliminated the air game for both schools.

We can argue about the close wins all we want. The better gauge are the losses. Michigan lost to the no. 1 team in the country by 3 points on the road. USC lost to an unranked Oregon State team. Therein lies the greatest difference.

So, just beat Notre Dame big. It's simple as that. Make my argument moot by pounding on the Domers. When it was Michigan at Notre Dame, Michigan laid down the lumber, crushed Brady Quinn, caused turnovers and threw all over their pourous secondary. Do the same. USC is at home. For allegedly the second best team in the country against what you call an "overrated" team, it should be no problem.

If USC buries Notre Dame, it most likely seals the deal. If it's only a close win, then don't feel slighted if USC doesn't get that no. 2 spot.

[JoeChalupa]

All I know is that Ohio State beat two #2 ranked teams this year so it don't matter because they are already the National Champions in my book.

[johngateswhiteley]

If Notre Dame is overrated and if USC is better than Michigan, then blow Notre Dame out. It's as simple as that. Common opponent. And, Michigan beat Notre Dame AT SOUTH BEND when they were ranked no. 2 in the nation.

You believe USC is better than Michigan, fine. Beat Notre Dame by 10+ points at home. Heck, I'm not even asking for a 2 TD+ win. Just beat them by more than a touchdown and a half and prove that USC deserves to be in the NC game.

It's not that hard.

By the way, you're crazy if you don't think Penn State at home isn't tough. Happy Valley is a crazy place to play. Any road game in the Big Ten is tough.

Ball State game was bad. I understand that. They should have blown them out. Up 19 points midway through the third quarter is well on the way to a blowout. Second string and third string defensive guys let up. There were other circumstances to that game as well, but it will sound like more excuses. Michigan should have won by a greater margin.

As for Northwestern, I know sunny California doesn't have the weather problems the midwest does in October and November, so you probably don't understand what a serious downpour can do to affect a game. But, it basically eliminated the air game for both schools.

We can argue about the close wins all we want. The better gauge are the losses. Michigan lost to the no. 1 team in the country by 3 points on the road. USC lost to an unranked Oregon State team. Therein lies the greatest difference.

So, just beat Notre Dame big. It's simple as that. Make my argument moot by pounding on the Domers. When it was Michigan at Notre Dame, Michigan laid down the lumber, crushed Brady Quinn, caused turnovers and threw all over their pourous secondary. Do the same. USC is at home. For allegedly the second best team in the country against what you call an "overrated" team, it should be no problem.

If USC buries Notre Dame, it most likely seals the deal. If it's only a close win, then don't feel slighted if USC doesn't get that no. 2 spot.

i don't see it that way. USC has to do nothing, except win. these are different points in the season and wins are all that matters. maybe SC will blow notre dame out and maybe they won't...but it doesn't matter and i could care less if you think they should.

...i guarantee you if USC wins their last two, they are in the title game. spread won't matter, not when the difference is 0.007 and USC only needs to reverse 1 or 2 of the computers which they will with strength of schedule...EASILY.

now if you wanted to argue who's better...michigan or USC, well thats a completely different argument and one, it appears, you are trying to bring into this thread. that has nothing to do with it, cause we will never know unless they play each other. but to say USC has to blow out notre dame to make the title game is not only wrong, it tells me you don't know much about CFB. cause:

1. sometimes teams show up sometimes they don't
2. sometimes teams get better throughout the course of the season (arkansas comes to mind)
3. rivalries are usually tougher games
4. the way SC beat nd last year still lingers in their mind, i'm sure
5. USC has sustained more injuries and is just starting to get it together

and while i understand you are michigan fan and thats your team, great. but you had your chance and lost...you gave up 42 points. i'd be surprised if USC gave up more than 28. so say whatever you will, but all USC has to do is win...and thats pretty damn close to fact if you read most BCS experts articles.

[JamStone]

All of those things you bring up in the above post could be used in evaluating a couple of those close wins by Michigan. Penn State would have been in the National Championship game last year if Michigan didn't beat them in the final second of the game at Ann Arbor for their only loss. Ball State is a former assistant coach at Michigan. He was on the staff in 1997 when Michigan won a share in the national championship. He was very familiar with Lloyd Carr and Mike DaBorg's gameplans and styles. Lloyd Carr not want to embarrass his old friend and assistant coach.

After USC, Notre Dame's biggest rival is most likely Michigan. Last year, Notre Dame beat Michigan. There is a storied rivalry between the two schools just like there is between ND and SC. It should have been about as tough a rivalry as USC should be, and Michigan pounded them AT NOTRE DAME.

I'm not saying USC won't deserve to go to the National Championship game if they win out. I'm not saying they won't go if they just skate by ND. I'm just saying if they really are the no. 2 team in the nation and better than Michigan, then blow out Notre Dame. And, there will be dissenters if USC only beats ND by something like 3-6 points. I guarantee you there will be.

And, I understand that you are a USC fan and your team is very good. But, you had a chance for there not to be any argument, and you lost that when your team LOST TO AN UNRANKED OREGON STATE TEAM.

USC may go on to the NC game. But, if they don't win convincingly the next two games, there will be plenty of discussion if they're really deserving over Michigan.

[Beaverfuzz]

And, I understand that you are a USC fan and your team is very good. But, you had a chance for there not to be any argument, and you lost that when your team LOST TO AN UNRANKED OREGON STATE TEAM.

USC may go on to the NC game. But, if they don't win convincingly the next two games, there will be plenty of discussion if they're really deserving over Michigan.


USC wins out, they're in over Michigan. You'd be surprised at how many people outside of the Big-10+1 land don't want to see a rematch. The voters have spoken.


A fan of that unranked Oregon State team.

[JamStone]

I understand not wanting to see a rematch. Even as a Michigan fan, I'm not claiming there should be. But, not wanting to see a rematch doesn't mean USC deserves it over Michigan. The voters are the college coaches. It's not the fans. And, what they're asked to do is rank the college football teams in the order they think each team deserves.

Now, if you want to argue people, even coaches, don't want to see a rematch, that's fine. But, if the coaches vote based on not wanting a rematch over who they really believe deserves to be no. 2, then, I think that's wrong.

Again, if SC pounds Notre Dame and pounds UCLA, there isn't much of an argument. If they don't, I think there will be a lot of discussion and a lot of arguments for who should be ranked no. 2, and not just from Michigan but from the winner of Arkansas and Florida.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

i don't see it that way. USC has to do nothing, except win. these are different points in the season and wins are all that matters. maybe SC will blow notre dame out and maybe they won't...but it doesn't matter and i could care less if you think they should.

...i guarantee you if USC wins their last two, they are in the title game. spread won't matter, not when the difference is 0.007 and USC only needs to reverse 1 or 2 of the computers which they will with strength of schedule...EASILY.

now if you wanted to argue who's better...michigan or USC, well thats a completely different argument and one, it appears, you are trying to bring into this thread. that has nothing to do with it, cause we will never know unless they play each other. but to say USC has to blow out notre dame to make the title game is not only wrong, it tells me you don't know much about CFB. cause:

1. sometimes teams show up sometimes they don't
2. sometimes teams get better throughout the course of the season (arkansas comes to mind)
3. rivalries are usually tougher games
4. the way SC beat nd last year still lingers in their mind, i'm sure
5. USC has sustained more injuries and is just starting to get it together

and while i understand you are michigan fan and thats your team, great. but you had your chance and lost...you gave up 42 points. i'd be surprised if USC gave up more than 28. so say whatever you will, but all USC has to do is win...and thats pretty damn close to fact if you read most BCS experts articles.



USC gave up 33 points to the 50th best scoring O in the country. Why would you bring up points scored or defense? You'd lose both those arguments.

They also put up 39 on the #1 scoring D in the nation.

On the other points, you're right, but only because it's a flawed system. USC and Notre Dame were a little overrated(ranked too high) while teams like Michigan and Arkansas were underrated(ranked too low) to start off the season. If USC was ranked where UM was to start off the season and lost to an unranked team, they'd have no shot at the NCG.


The only reason I want to see a rematch is to bring us that much closer to a playoff.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

And the BCS is supposed to be about the two best teams in the country fighting for the mythical NC. Nowhere does it state no rematches, no teams from the same conference, etc.


If that isn't going to happen, why even have it all?

[johngateswhiteley]

USC gave up 33 points to the 50th best scoring O in the country. Why would you bring up points scored or defense? You'd lose both those arguments.

They also put up 39 on the #1 scoring D in the nation.

On the other points, you're right, but only because it's a flawed system. USC and Notre Dame were a little overrated(ranked too high) while teams like Michigan and Arkansas were underrated(ranked too low) to start off the season. If USC was ranked where UM was to start off the season and lost to an unranked team, they'd have no shot at the NCG.


The only reason I want to see a rematch is to bring us that much closer to a playoff.

we didn't give up 33 points. turnovers compromised the defense...it was the offense that gave up those points. so you can stop right there...

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Oh, so those points don't count, eh?

Gotcha.

[johngateswhiteley]

Oh, so those points don't count, eh?

Gotcha.

not what i said. but i think i made my point....

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Not really.

[JamStone]

we didn't give up 33 points. turnovers compromised the defense...it was the offense that gave up those points. so you can stop right there...

If that's the case, I find it pretty hard to believe SC would be able to hold the no. 1 scoring defense of OSU enough to allow only 28 points by the Buckeyes.

[johngateswhiteley]

If that's the case, I find it pretty hard to believe SC would be able to hold the no. 1 scoring defense of OSU enough to allow only 28 points by the Buckeyes.

:lol ...i'll give you credit here, thats pretty funny.

[johngateswhiteley]

Not really.

go look at the drive summary for that game. Oregon State had 2 drives the ENTIRE game...thats good defense. they scored on a long punt return, and then had 4 field goals b/c USC defense stopped them when the Beavers had SHORT fields b/c of turnovers. thats pretty good defense. So, while i am not taking anything away from Oregon State, they had 14 offensive points for the entire game...not bad.

...think i made my point? it's b/c of our defense that we even had a chance.

[Marklar MM]

go look at the drive summary for that game. Oregon State had 2 drives the ENTIRE game...thats good defense. they scored on a long punt return, and then had 4 field goals b/c USC defense stopped them when the Beavers had SHORT fields b/c of turnovers. thats pretty good defense. So, while i am not taking anything away from Oregon State, they had 14 offensive points for the entire game...not bad.

...think i made my point? it's b/c of our defense that we even had a chance.


You do realize that Oregon State is ranked like 70 in 3rd down coversion percentage.

[johngateswhiteley]

You do realize that Oregon State is ranked like 70 in 3rd down coversion percentage.

no, i did not, :lol . but i think my point still stands and i am pretty sure Oregon State was tired of us ruling the Pacific 10.