Horry is the new Nazr [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

greens

11-26-2006, 10:02 PM

But you see, regular season is not Horry time...Horry usually is amazing during the Finals, or playoffs...We need the big shots at the right time from him, that's all...He doesn't need to play his best during the regular season. We just need him right at the crucial time during the Finals...

Remember, without his big shot in Game 5, we would NOT have won the championship...For that reason alone, Horry is always valuable...you never know when we'll need another big shot...

Zunni

11-26-2006, 10:03 PM

To me, Horry always gets a free pass until like February. He can't possibly be the next Nazr unless he suffers a brain injury.

MannyIsGod

11-26-2006, 10:04 PM

T Park

11-26-2006, 10:04 PM

Horry isn't pumpfaking and missing defensive rotations.

hes rebounding and what not.

I wouldn't ever insult Robert Horry like that.

T Park

11-26-2006, 10:06 PM

How long will we give Horry a pass for ONE awesome game?

Uhh, he had a pretty good series vs Phoenix too.......

whottt

11-26-2006, 10:07 PM

You are looking for numbers or something from Horry...check his career averages both postseason and regular season, they are very similar and there is nothing amazing about any of them....it's not what numbers he puts up, it's when he puts them up.

And Horry didn't get any PT in the Mavs series so I don't know how anyone can say he sucked....we never got a game 5 from him because he wasn't on the court to give it to us.

Horry will retire when he can no longer do what he does, you won't have to force him out....he's not about ego and getting the ball. He's about the ring.

Keep in mind...that game 5 VS the Pistons Horry did absolutely nothing prior to 1 minute left in the 3rd...nothing. Nada, zilch, squat.

He's been that way his entire career....

Zunni

11-26-2006, 10:08 PM

Horry will retire after this year.

whottt

11-26-2006, 10:11 PM

Game 1 1995 WCF Rockets VS Spurs - Horry only scored one basket in that game.

It was the winning shot.

A similar game happened against Philly in the finals...he did absolutely nothing for the entire game until the final 5 minutes of the 4th when he ended up blocking some shots, getting some steals and scoring like the final 7 points to ice the game.

Nothing new here except a chance for Horry to make fools of people yet again...best to move along now.

spurschick

11-26-2006, 10:14 PM

I wish he would dunk the ball! He's been missing these pussy layups when he's had the opportunity to just put it in the damn basket. And that lazy shovel pass was bullshit.

Tek_XX

11-26-2006, 10:21 PM

I would like to believe his head just isn't in it yet but he's getting up there in age so who knows

SenorSpur

11-26-2006, 10:45 PM

Like others, I've tried to be careful about criticizing Horry because of the "skins" he has on the wall. However, he's clearly struggling - even with simple tasks such as making passes, setting picks and hitting "bunny" shots.

Anyone remember giving NVE the same pass last season? "Wait until the playoffs" was the motto for many. Well, he didn't do squat in the playoffs and clearly looked old, worn out, and exposed versus the Mavs.

I'm sorry. In this league, it's all about "what have you done for me lately?" And lately, Horry hasn't done squat. Until he does, he deserves the criticism.

1Parker1

11-26-2006, 10:51 PM

:lmao I think he heard you Manny.

SenorSpur

11-26-2006, 10:53 PM

It figures. As soon as I criticize Horry, he's just nailed to threes versus the Sonics. But, he's got to do more than that to get over this slump. I wouldn't dare compare him to Nazr.

T Park

11-26-2006, 10:54 PM

just like against Houston, HOrry spurs a run.

Robert Horry can play on my team any day of the week.

E20

11-26-2006, 10:57 PM

Nazr wasn't that bad for us. 2004-2005 run. And he was doing swell in 2005-2006 run until he took that three pointer against Sacramento.

ducks

11-26-2006, 11:12 PM

someone got owned tonight
oh that would be the starter of this thread

dav4463

11-26-2006, 11:16 PM

After what that man did in the finals against Detroit, he can stay as long as he wants in my opiniion! When he retires, I hope he stays on as a coach.

I also loved his hustle in the Dallas game. When he skied for that big offensive rebound and the Spurs went up by two, it should have spurred the team to victory. He does a lot of little things that go unnoticed and he is a smart player.

baseline bum

11-26-2006, 11:16 PM

How long will we give Horry a pass for ONE awesome game? He had a decent showing in the playoffs in 05, with one incredible game, but 2 out of his 3 years here he has completely sucked in the playoffs and in the regular season.

There is nothing that is being shown out there that leads me to believe that this season will be different.

Man, Rob could pull his shorts down and start jerking off at center court of the AT&T Center in the middle of a game and he'd still be a Spurs legend.

One incredible game? How about when he hit a dagger three in Denver in game 3, stole the inbounds pass, immediately hit another dagger 3, and made sure Denver never threatened again the entire series. That game was ridiculously close, and Rob broke it wide open in a span of about 10 seconds.

How about game 2 of the WCF vs Phoenix? Nash had just come and hit a three with like a minute and a half left to give Phoenix their first lead in ages, and Rob went down and buried a demoralizing three on the very next possession.

What about game 7 of the Finals? It was like a two point game with maybe 6 minutes left, and Rob ran a pick and roll and put up a dagger three from the baseline to put the Spurs up 5, giving them their first two possession lead in ages, and maybe the entire game. He carried the Spurs through a dismal first half in that game, and was the Spurs' high-point man at halftime... not to mention the charge he drew on Hamilton with like 1:30 left that ended Detroit's comeback.

Kori Ellis

11-26-2006, 11:17 PM

http://www.spurstalk.com/horry07.jpg

T Park

11-26-2006, 11:18 PM

Bum makes the points.

I agree, Horry could do whatever he wants, but his contriubutions during that 05 run were things of legend.

Big Shot Bob can stay as long as he wants.

Chris

11-26-2006, 11:18 PM

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/1671/joeeatingcrowjb6.th.jpg (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=joeeatingcrowjb6.jpg)

timvp

11-26-2006, 11:19 PM

He had a decent showing in the playoffs in 05, with one incredible game

Decent? Horry was awesome in that playoff run. Without him the Spurs might not even get by the Nuggets. His +/- for the playoffs was +112, second highest on the team.

And that "one incredible game" was a game where he played the worst I've ever seen in the first half. He just kept at it. I've made the mistake of counting Horry out before. Until I see a decline in his ability, I'll support him being on the floor.

This season, I've actually liked everything about his play other than his shooting. He's playing good defense, he's rebounding, passing and blocking shots better than any time in his Spur history. The only thing he's not doing is knocking down shots.

Horry will be done when he can no longer rebound or defend. Up until this point, I see nothing to indicate he's finished.

T Park

11-26-2006, 11:20 PM

arent his rebounding and block shot numbers up from last year?

1Parker1

11-26-2006, 11:21 PM

http://www.spurstalk.com/horry07.jpg

:lol

:flipoff

:lol J/K Manny, you know I'm just messing :)

whottt

11-26-2006, 11:23 PM

Let's remember....if Horry is considered any kind of a threat by the other team they usually can shut him down...he does what he does when the other team forgets about him and think he's under control.

Best just to let Big Shot Rob suck until the other team forgets about him, so he can knife them in the back and steal their rings in the most gutwrenching and surprising fashion humanly possible....

The secret is, Horry can defend, pass, block shots, steal, dunk, jump shoot, post someone up, sky for a rebound, and of course, hit clutch shots and FT's, backed up with one of the best basketball IQ to ever play the game...there is literally nothing he can't do...

...he just doesn't do it until the pressure is at it's highest and he is left for dead.

EG: Oh shit, I didn't know he could do that/could still do that. How the hell did we forget about him? I hate Horry.

That's his career summed up in three sentences.

It's what he does.

greens

11-26-2006, 11:25 PM

How long will we give Horry a pass for ONE awesome game? He had a decent showing in the playoffs in 05, with one incredible game, but 2 out of his 3 years here he has completely sucked in the playoffs and in the regular season.

There is nothing that is being shown out there that leads me to believe that this season will be different.

A decent showing in the 05 playoffs? what? lol...He literally took over the Game 5, fourth quarter and the overtime. And in Game 7, fourth quarter, he was phenomenal...He was what you call, the "intangible" man...doing all the small things...scoring the 3 pointer, rebounding, defending, free throws, etc...That's not just Game 5...it's also Game 7 that was great due to Horry's efforts...

And my point is that Horry is known for truly showing up at the Finals...that's his reputation...You never hear how great he is during regular games...It's like what Tim Duncan has said after the Game 5 thing, he said that he doesn't "really show up" during the regular season, and then when it's an "important" game, he just "turns it on"...

We have Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, Bowen, now Oberto, Barry to handle the regular season phenomenally...We need to save Horry for the Finals...

dknights411

11-26-2006, 11:32 PM

All it will take is ONE clutch 3, and all this will be forgotten.

SequSpur

11-26-2006, 11:34 PM

If Horry played like this the other night, Dallas would've been smoked. Man f... dallas.

timvp

11-26-2006, 11:34 PM

Horry's numbers:

Rebounds Per 40 Minutes
2003-04: 8.4
2004-05: 7.7
2005-06: 8.2
2006-07: 9.2

Blocks Per 40 Minutes
2003-04: 1.5
2004-05: 1.7
2005-06: 1.7
2006-07: 1.7

Assists Per 40 Minutes
2003-04: 3.1
2004-05: 2.3
2005-06: 2.7
2006-07: 3.5

Defensively, he's been off the charts good. Per 48 minutes with Horry on the court, teams average 93.3 points on 43.4% shooting against the Spurs. With Horry off the court, teams average 103.9 points on 50.9%.

Add in the fact that he has by far the highest basketball IQ on the team and I can live with it even if he's not yet knocking down shots at a high rate. I've been hard on Horry in the past for not rebounding and not playing defense, but you can't say that this year. He's doing his part outside of his shooting.

MannyIsGod

11-26-2006, 11:48 PM

http://www.spurstalk.com/horry07.jpg:lmao

I have no problem eating crow, and if Horry comes up big later on this season, then I'll be just as happy as anyone else. I'm not a Horry hater, I just think the dude is running on fumes.

I don't want a NVE repeat this year. I don't want him to take away from playing time that can go do Elson or Bonner; especially early in the year when we need to see what we have in those 2.

MannyIsGod

11-26-2006, 11:49 PM

Kori Ellis

11-26-2006, 11:50 PM

You and I both know that per 40/48 minute stats are useless.

So you think Horry is rebounding less, blocking less shots and playing worse defense than in past years?

whottt

11-26-2006, 11:51 PM

NVE = O Rings(and he played with Shaq)

Horry = 6 Rings

Horry always sucks statistically....

NVE never sucked in the regular season like he did last year. WE hoped he was saving it for when it mattered...

Horry's just being Horry. If Horry thought he was finished he'd let Pop know IMO.

Horry>NVE

Aggie Hoopsfan

11-26-2006, 11:56 PM

whottt

11-26-2006, 11:57 PM

People can kiss Horry's ass all they want right now. The problem is the last two times that coaches used Horry this much we were treated to his performance in the post-season last year and the last year of him as a Laker, when he had nothing left for the playoffs.

Everyone who is beating off to Horry right now just better not be crying when the guy does nothing for us in the post-season this year.

Pop needs to put Horry on the bench and leave him there until mid-March.

Spoken like a true Aggie...

The fact is Horry got more minutes the year we won the title than he did the other two years...

Remember? Duncan and Rasho were injured?

Now STFU and go compare Nazr to Hakeem or something.

timvp

11-26-2006, 11:58 PM

You and I both know that per 40/48 minute stats are useless.

Alright, straight up it's the same ish.

Horry's numbers:

Rebounds
2003-04: 3.4
2004-05: 3.6
2005-06: 3.8
2006-07: 4.1

Blocks
2003-04: 0.6
2004-05: 0.8
2005-06: 0.8
2006-07: 0.8

Assists
2003-04: 1.2
2004-05: 1.1
2005-06: 1.3
2006-07: 1.6

timvp

11-27-2006, 12:00 AM

People can kiss Horry's ass all they want right now. The problem is the last two times that coaches used Horry this much we were treated to his performance in the post-season last year and the last year of him as a Laker, when he had nothing left for the playoffs.

Everyone who is beating off to Horry right now just better not be crying when the guy does nothing for us in the post-season this year.

Pop needs to put Horry on the bench and leave him there until mid-March.

Horry is playing less minutes than he did the last two years.

Kori Ellis

11-27-2006, 12:01 AM

The problem is the last two times that coaches used Horry this much we were treated to his performance in the post-season last year and the last year of him as a Laker, when he had nothing left for the playoffs.

Umm .. He's playing less minutes this year than he did in 2004-05 when he had a lot left in the post season. Don't compare the last year of the Lakers to any time as a Spur.

He played 30 mpg in that season. And he's averaged 16/19/19/17 minutes in his 3+ years as a Spur.

ducks

11-27-2006, 12:02 AM

people like to get owned in this thread

timvp

11-27-2006, 12:03 AM

Overall, the good news is the Spurs have three bigs that Pop has had confidence in ending games with so far. Pop NEVER let Nazr or Rasho end games. He's already gone with Horry, Oberto and Elson at different times in the fourth.

So if Horry gets injured or still can't shoot come playoff time, at least the Spurs have options.

whottt

11-27-2006, 12:03 AM

Horry's minutes during his Spurs career:

Yr G GS MPG
03-04 Sas 81 1 15.9
04-05 Sas 75 16 18.6*
05-06 Sas 63 3 18.8

* won NBA Championship

He played the most minutes and made the most starts the year we won the championship....except for when he was injured.

And he started to find his groove when Duncan and Rasho were injured....

Last year he was DNP'ed on back to back and stuff like that all season and never found his game.

I think he needs a good 17 minutes per game PT and to be played in a lot of games, perhaps some games give him some 30-35 minute burn even.

Aggie Hoopsfan

11-27-2006, 12:04 AM

Spoken like a true Aggie...

The fact is Horry got more minutes the year we won the title than he did the other two years...

Remember? Duncan and Rasho were injured?

Now STFU and go compare Nazr to Hakeem or something.

Horry was playing 30 minutes a game his last year in LA.

As for his time with the Spurs...

First year here he played 16 MPG.
Second year he played 18.5 MPG.
Last year he played 19 MPG, and in the playoffs it went up over 20 MPG.

Care to revise?

And I guess you all watched him play against Dallas and thought he looked like he was 25 again, right?

I'm sorry, as old as he is, it's stupid to play him as much as we are right now (25 minutes tonight) for two reasons:

1. He doesn't have much left in the tank

2. He knows how our system works, Elson and Oberto need the run.

Kori Ellis

11-27-2006, 12:04 AM

Horry's minutes during his Spurs career:

Yr G GS MPG
03-04 Sas 81 1 15.9
04-05 Sas 75 16 18.6*
05-06 Sas 63 3 18.8

* won NBA Championship

He played the most minutes and made the most starts the year we won the championship....except for when he was injured.

and he's only play 17 mpg this year. AHF is acting like he's playing 30 for some reason.

whottt

11-27-2006, 12:07 AM

Care to revise?

^^^^^Look up...

Would you?

I know one ever mentions this...but his hand was hurt the year we played LA in the playoffs and he sucked. He hurt it towards the end of the season.

Kori Ellis

11-27-2006, 12:07 AM

Horry was playing 30 minutes a game his last year in LA.

As for his time with the Spurs...

First year here he played 16 MPG.
Second year he played 18.5 MPG.
Last year he played 19 MPG, and in the playoffs it went up over 20 MPG.

Care to revise?

How the fuck are you calling Whottt out? You are the one who said something grossly inaccurate.

The problem is the last two times that coaches used Horry this much we were treated to his performance in the post-season last year and the last year of him as a Laker, when he had nothing left for the playoffs.

"This much" is 17 mpg, which is relatively the same he's been playing since he was a Spur. There's no correlation to what you are saying.

03-04 - 16+mpg - no title
04-05 - 18.6 mpg - Title - 20+mpg in playoffs
05-06 - 18.8 mpg - no title - ~25mpg in playoffs

The Spurs have always played Horry about this much and it has had no correlation to him being ready for the playoffs or not.

timvp

11-27-2006, 12:08 AM

Last year he played 19 MPG, and in the playoffs it went up over 20 MPG.

And Horry played 27 MPG in 2004-05 playoffs.

Part of the problem last year is the Spurs never got Horry in rhythm. If you remember the 2004-05 regular season, he had some huge games down the stretch and that carried into the playoffs.

I'd actually like to see Horry's minutes go above 20 MPG after the All-Star break to keep him in shape and get him going. At worst, Oberto can finish games in the playoffs.

But a healthy and on target Horry >>>>>>>>> any other option next to Tim.

Aggie Hoopsfan

11-27-2006, 12:08 AM

and he's only play 17 mpg this year. AHF is acting like he's playing 30 for some reason.

He's up to 19 minutes a game over the last 10, and if tonight's any indication he's going to be playing 20+ a night.

whottt

11-27-2006, 12:09 AM

Kori Ellis

11-27-2006, 12:10 AM

He's up to 19 minutes a game over the last 10, and if tonight's any indication he's going to be playing 20+ a night.

So if he plays around 19, then we should win a title because that's what happened in 2005 :drunk

Aggie Hoopsfan

11-27-2006, 12:10 AM

Kori Ellis

11-27-2006, 12:11 AM

Whott, I'll stand by what I said. Against Dallas he didn't even have enough spring in his legs to make a layup at one point. Dude just doesn't have a ton left in the tank.

Time will tell if I'm right or wrong as the season and playoffs come around, but I just don't like where it's headed...

Back out of the thread now because you were owned. The Spurs never used Horry even close to the amount the Lakers did in his last season there.

Aggie Hoopsfan

11-27-2006, 12:11 AM

And I might add...in 03-04...asking him to guard Shaq may have had something to do with it....guy is a SF puffed up to the max to defend someone Duncan's size...asking him to guard Shaq was insane. It's like trying to stop a bullet with a piece of paper.

So, if we end up playing the Heat in the Finals, are you expecting Tim to guard Shaq? Because I think Pop would pull the same shit as then - Oberto gets into foul trouble and it's Horry's turn to fight the big man.

Aggie Hoopsfan

11-27-2006, 12:12 AM

Back out of the thread now because you were owned. The Spurs never used Horry even close to the amount the Lakers did in his last season there.

Do you have his playoff MPG? I can't find them on the Spurs site. I'd like to see them for the last 4 years.

Kori Ellis

11-27-2006, 12:14 AM

Do you have his playoff MPG? I can't find them on the Spurs site. I'd like to see them for the last 4 years.

In 2004-05 playoffs he played 27 mpg and the Spurs won a title. Is that the stat you are looking for?

04-05 - 18.8mpg regular season/27mpg playoffs - TITLE
05-06 - 18.6mpg regular season/17mpg playoffs - NO TITLE

No logic to your conclusions.

Mixability

11-27-2006, 12:15 AM

no wonder we never know when its gonna rain either.

Aggie Hoopsfan

11-27-2006, 12:16 AM

It seemed like he played more minutes last year against Sacto and Dallas, guess I was wrong.

whottt

11-27-2006, 12:16 AM

Shaq aint the same Shaq anymore....

But should push come to shove, and should Shaq have turned the clock back, well hopefully Butler will have something to offer by then...because I don't really want to see Elson or Horry on him.

But I'd much rather see Duncan and his 8-9 All NBA D Teams on him in a pinch over Horry or Elson.

Duncan and Shaq went Manu A Manu during the 03 title run at the end of several games remember?

I watched Shaq and Zo guard Dirk in stretches last season, and they put him on his ass...sometimes stars have to go Manu a Manu...

Kori Ellis

11-27-2006, 12:17 AM

It seemed like he played more minutes last year against Sacto and Dallas, guess I was wrong.

Good job. :downspin:

E20

11-27-2006, 12:17 AM

Pop last year went incredibly small. Tim was the only big man on the court, it was 4 guards and Tim for all the playoffs after Game 2 against Sac. I guess I understand why Horry didn't get more minutes cause of his age and the speed which all the games were being played at.

MannyIsGod

11-27-2006, 12:25 AM

:lol

Horry isn't rebounding more or blocking more shots to make a significant difference. Thats difference in those stats is a few rebounds and a few blocks. I would say he's playing at the same level with the exception that his offense is absolutely horrible at the moment.

I think for most of his career, Horry has been an underrated defender especially off the ball, so I'm not surprised that he's still doing that. But we can't make it seem as though he's playing much better in those regards because of what could turn out to be little more than a statistical anomaly.

If he starts hitting shots - and more importantly layups - then it'll all be moot. BUt right now he's putting up what are basically the same stats on defense/rebounding but shooting way worse and putting up about half the PPG he put up last year.

Kori Ellis

11-27-2006, 12:27 AM

If he starts hitting shots ....

Did you watch the game tonight? Maybe he started.

jcrod

11-27-2006, 12:30 AM

:lmao

I have no problem eating crow, and if Horry comes up big later on this season, then I'll be just as happy as anyone else. I'm not a Horry hater, I just think the dude is running on fumes.

I don't want a NVE repeat this year. I don't want him to take away from playing time that can go do Elson or Bonner; especially early in the year when we need to see what we have in those 2.

Exactly, totally agree.

MannyIsGod

11-27-2006, 12:33 AM

Did you watch the game tonight? Maybe he started.One game doesn't make a trend. Hopefully it continues though.

You know if it does, I'm gonna take credit because of this thread.

:lol

I'll call out Finley next.

T Park

11-27-2006, 01:30 AM

He made some shots vs Houston to bring em back in that game too.....

T Park

11-27-2006, 01:30 AM

BTW, from what I've seen of Bonner, Horry can go ahead and take his time.

Bonner is Brad Lohaus all over again.

lefty

11-27-2006, 01:59 AM

Horry looked motivated against Seattle, he must have been pissed off by the way he played against Dallas

whottt

11-27-2006, 04:07 AM

Horry was due!

twincam

11-27-2006, 10:22 AM

The man can shoot when he's feeling it...but cannot pivot for crapp. He's got now coordination when dribbling.

Mavs<Spurs

11-27-2006, 02:12 PM

One game doesn't make a trend. Hopefully it continues though.

You know if it does, I'm gonna take credit because of this thread.

:lol

I'll call out Finley next.

:stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot:

timvp

11-28-2006, 01:08 AM

It was awesome that Horry didn't play in the fourth quarter tonight. His defense and rebounding wouldn't have helped. Small ball rules.

:elephant

ShoogarBear

11-28-2006, 01:17 AM

I'm not sure what Pop was trying to accomplish, unless he's getting a cut of Mike Dunleavy's next contract.

IceColdBrewski

11-28-2006, 01:21 AM

It was awesome that Horry didn't play in the fourth quarter tonight. His defense and rebounding wouldn't have helped.

Maybe he wouldn't be riding the pine if he wasn't such a scrub this season. Wake me up when he finally does something worthy of crunchtime minutes in a close game.

timvp

11-28-2006, 01:23 AM

Maybe he wouldn't be riding the pine if he wasn't such a scrub this season. Wake me up when he finally does something worthy of crunchtime minutes in a close game.

Think all the way back to that game yesterday.

IceColdBrewski

11-28-2006, 01:30 AM

Think all the way back to that game yesterday.

With or without Horry, the Sonics game was never in doubt.

MannyIsGod

11-28-2006, 03:06 AM

It was awesome that Horry didn't play in the fourth quarter tonight. His defense and rebounding wouldn't have helped. Small ball rules.

:elephantBiggest reach of the thread.

Explain to me how Horry would have made a difference tonight?

Kori Ellis

11-28-2006, 03:07 AM

Biggest reach of the thread.

Explain to me how Horry would have made a difference tonight?

Horry, Oberto or Elson probably would have made a difference.

The Spurs played Duncan + four smalls for long stretches.

ata

11-28-2006, 03:12 AM

It was awesome that Horry didn't play in the fourth quarter tonight. His defense and rebounding wouldn't have helped. Small ball rules.

:elephant
FUCK SMALL BALL

whottt

11-28-2006, 04:11 AM

Horry, Oberto or Elson probably would have made a difference.

The Spurs played Duncan + four smalls for long stretches.

So is Dunleavy the new Dirk or something?

Why Pop why?

Who was on him?

Was probably Barry lol....

At least with Horry in there we can still run our set D because Horry can block and alter shots.

Small Ball is never going to work against the Mavs and Warriors...because they aren't small teams lol.

The Suns are the only small running team....Mayb e the Kings, but they don't run like they used too.

ShoogarBear

11-28-2006, 07:03 AM

Yeah, it was Barry on Dunleavy. He was horrible, just overmatched.

Aggie Hoopsfan

11-28-2006, 08:32 AM

The decision to put Barry on Dunleavy cost us the game. Dunleavy took him into the post repeatedly for easy buckets.

FUCK SMALL BALL.

Bruno

11-28-2006, 08:55 AM

Spurs with Finley at PF : 17 min => +2 for Spurs

Spurs with Eric Williams at PF : 5 min => -2 for Spurs

Spurs with 2 true bigs : 26 min => -9 for Spurs

G-Nob

11-28-2006, 09:05 AM

Spurs with Finley at PF : 17 min => +2 for Spurs

Spurs with Eric Williams at PF : 5 min => -2 for Spurs

Spurs with 2 true bigs : 26 min => -9 for Spurs

I don't get it. What happened to when our guards funneled the other team into our centers? Where has our freakin defense gone? Are we too old? Too fat and happy?

boutons_

11-28-2006, 09:26 AM

"Where has our freakin defense gone? "

I think Pop, with his 3 rings and dreaming about wealthy retirement when Tim quits, has mellowed and just doesn't have the energy to "Pop the whip" constantly to get the Spurs to play defense. It takes effort by Pop to elicit the defensive effort.

Pop may also figure that the Spurs have enough offense now that the high level defense he insisted on earlier (when he knew the Spurs' offense was unreliable) is no longer so necessary. But last night, when the Spurs offense is shooting 41%, the Spurs defense can't allow 49% and win.

Pop may also think he will wait until the end of the season and playoffs to raise his personal effort needed to raise the Spurs' defensive effort.

The Spurs defense is obviously not much to crow about now, eg, Spurs allowed 9 3Gs and 53% on 3Gs whereas in earlier years the Spurs 3G defense allowed the fewest 3Gs in the league. Perimeter defense sucks, paint defense sucks, etc.

RandomGuy

11-28-2006, 09:32 AM

I gave him a free pass last year and he sucked it up the entire playoffs. I wanted him to retire for this very reason. I really don't think this guy has anything left in the tank.

Hmm... Got stats?

z0sa

11-28-2006, 09:54 AM

small ball sucks.

Barry on Dunleavy was unimaginably horrible - Pop has never been a great coach, lets be honest, letting Barry guard Dunleavy. We needed a STOP to cut into the lead. Barry on Dunleavy is the practical opposite of that. Horrible decision by Pop. Horrible.

Pop's entire offensive playbook consists of a postup, a pick and roll, and a set motion play. I guess he can keep riding Tim's coattails all the way to retirement - just like he planned from the first championship.

And how about Parker? Anytime the shotclock is running down, its a close game and hes got the ball - you guessed it, a badly timed jumpshot that doesnt go in. The only Spur player or coach doing shit right now is Tim Duncan and maybe Brent Barry - but mainly Tim. Sure, all the Parker lovers are going to point to his PPG, FG%, etc - but hes falling in love with that jumpshot far too much, especially at the end of games.

z0sa

11-28-2006, 09:56 AM

And on the subject of Horry, leave the man alone, he's just waiting for playoff time - if Pop will even play him.

Bruno

11-28-2006, 10:21 AM

So Spurs lost a b2b game on the road against a playoff team and it's the end of the world (Pop sucks, Spurs' D sucks...) ? :lol

LEONARD

11-28-2006, 10:28 AM

And on the subject of Horry, leave the man alone, he's just waiting for playoff time - if Pop will even play him.

True...he was huge in the Mavs series last year...

:dizzy

z0sa

11-28-2006, 11:24 AM

- if Pop will even play him.

True...he was huge in the Mavs series last year...

:dizzy

Feeling stupid yet?

ShoogarBear

11-28-2006, 01:28 PM

Yeah, it was Barry on Dunleavy. He was horrible, just overmatched.

Actually, what I meant to write was "he wasn't horrible, just overmatched".

Bremt was hustling, but the Spurs needed more height on him.

z0sa

11-28-2006, 02:39 PM

Barry might hustle, but on the block, there is no hustle. Its just power, strength, and height.

So I think your original statement was correct.

LEONARD

11-28-2006, 03:42 PM

Feeling stupid yet?

Mavs 7 game series...

32 min's...5 pts, 1/4 shooting (all 3's), 9 reb's
19 min's...3 pts, 1/2 shooting, 3 reb's
11 min's...2 pts, 0/5 shooring, 4 reb's
9 min's...2 pts, 0 shots and reb's
10 min's...0 pts, 0/1 shooting, 4 reb's
17 min's...6 pts, 1/2 shooting, 4 reb's
9 min's...2 pts, 1/2 shooting, 2 reb's

4/16 shooting...he definitely needed more PT...

He should've retired before LAST season...his bag is EMPTY...

angel_luv

11-28-2006, 04:06 PM

Horry is quickly becoming a bad player for us. The comparison to Nazr may be a bit unfair, but he's blowing inside scores, he's missing shots, and he's generally not doing very much well right now.

Understatement of the year. :lol

MannyIsGod

11-28-2006, 07:54 PM

timvp

11-28-2006, 08:27 PM

I don't think the problem was Elson/Oberto/Horry last night all. More of an issue was Monte Ellis and Biedrins getting everything they wanted inside. Ellis made Parker look silly in the fourth, and thats a damn shame. Many people here rag on Tony's offense, which I don't think is even an issue in the least, but no one gives him shit for his defense which I feel has regressed to a large degree.

When Finley wasn't the power forward, Parker held Ellis to like three points or whatever. He was dominating him.

But then when the Spurs went small, Ellis had layups all day. There was no one at the rim to challenge him. I blame Parker some, but hard to blame him too much with no help at all coming his way. Imagine how many points Parker would score if he ever went up against a team with Michael Finley at power forward :rollin

Plus, it's tough to hold an Ellis down for long.

:smokin

carib

11-28-2006, 08:48 PM

That's why Robert is my number one pick in this poll,

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54619

he is in the dog house for me this year, it will be nice if he just bow down gracefully.

MannyIsGod

11-28-2006, 09:38 PM

When Finley wasn't the power forward, Parker held Ellis to like three points or whatever. He was dominating him.

But then when the Spurs went small, Ellis had layups all day. There was no one at the rim to challenge him. I blame Parker some, but hard to blame him too much with no help at all coming his way. Imagine how many points Parker would score if he ever went up against a team with Michael Finley at power forward :rollin

Plus, it's tough to hold an Ellis down for long.

:smokinFair enough point. I'm not defending small ball. You know I hate that shit.

I thought Elson played well last night when given minutes, I don't know why Pop refuses to play him more.

Mavs<Spurs

11-28-2006, 10:18 PM

Understatement of the year. :lol

thank you, AngelLuv.

That's a succinct way of saying what I tried unsuccessfully to say in way too many words.

:tu

Mavs<Spurs

11-28-2006, 10:19 PM

I forgot since I'm a dense idiot according to the author of the thread, I probably should not post in this thread.

:depressed

Cant_Be_Faded

11-28-2006, 11:53 PM

rack the ducks

SCdac

11-29-2006, 11:03 PM

I'm starting to wonder, is Horry the new Nick Van Exel?

The NVE that never really had to "earn" minutes on the Spurs. Pop, and crew, were so intent on giving him minutes, even at the expense of younger guys who could be developed.

Even NVE was capable of hot night every now and then, showing glimpses of his old self (or younger self I suppose), but as whole wasn't very productive. Hopefully that doesn't become the description of Horry.

Horry has more intangibles to his game than Van Exel though, I'll give him that. He rebounds some, steals some, blocks every now and then. He's not "NVE done" yet, just seems like he's getting alot of minutes that could just as easily be going to other players. I wish Pop would budge, and play the younger bigs already, at least while it's still early in the season.

MannyIsGod

12-06-2006, 08:59 PM

Give props where props are due. After a slow and ugly start, Horry is easily pulling ahead of Elson and Oberto as the best option next to Duncan. He's active and his shot is starting to fall. With Oberto holding down the fort as the starter and playing a very solid game, Horry is a good option off the bench. When Elson starts grasping the system better, this team's frontcourt will be far better than it was at any point in the previous 2 years.

whottt

12-06-2006, 09:20 PM

Congrats Manny...you've gotten Horry to play better in the early part of the regular season. Horry problem solved :tu

ducks

12-07-2006, 12:12 AM

I think pop went off on horry and horry has stepped up..........................

timvp

12-07-2006, 12:17 AM

Horry in the last six games:

53% from the field
50% on three-pointers

If Horry shoots that well, it'd be almost impossible to beat the Spurs in a seven game series.

:smokin

FromWayDowntown

12-07-2006, 11:05 AM

Horry in the last six games:

53% from the field
50% on three-pointers

If Horry shoots that well, it'd be almost impossible to beat the Spurs in a seven game series.

:smokin

True, because if Robert Horry had shot even slightly better than 25% from the field and 14.3% from three against the Mavericks last season (though I'm not saying the outcome of that series was his fault), we're probably bumping around here talking about the impending three-peat, laughing at Mavs fans flailing around for chances to puff their chests out, and lamenting .4 as the hiccup separating the Spurs from a chance at 5 straight.