I'm going to call out Pop again.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't know if its his stubbornness, or just because he thinks its the most effective strategy, but at some point you need to make an adjustment when you see Duncan has not been effective when guarded by Boozer the entire evening. And I understand that your options are limited when your shooters are missing, but he didn't give Parker a chance to be effective in the fourth quater.

It was the same play over and over again: 4 down and wait for the double to swing it to Bruce. Bruce had a great night, but he's going to make far more 3s off of Tony's penetration because he can setup in the corner that way.

Also, we were lucky to be so close after the lineup he trotted out to start the fourth with again. If not for a lucky bounce to Beno for a layup and a shot clock beating 3 by Horry, they would have been down by double digits with 10 to go.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

By the way guys, speaking of 4th qtr lineup fuck ups

what lineup would you like to see kick off the 4th? (minus Manu)

I actually wouldn't mind trying Elson and Oberto together

good post Manny

[1Parker1]

What I don't get is what Pop has against Elson? I didn't get to see the game, but going by the boxscore it still looks like Horry is given way more time and opportunity. Doesn't make sense.

[timvp]

Eh, I don't agree this one is on Pop. The Spurs aren't a very good rebounding team. The Jazz are the best in the business.

And going to Tim was the right move. Parker wasn't aggressive at all until after the game was over. No one else was doing anything, so of course you go to Tim downlow. The problem was Tim was going for the foul more than he was trying to just score the ball.

Pop coached a decent game. Getting outrebounded and not being able to knock down open outside shots will lose you more games than not.

[angel_luv]

What I don't get is what Pop has against Elson? I didn't get to see the game, but going by the boxscore it still looks like Horry is given way more time and opportunity. Doesn't make sense.

I think Pop must know Elson is on my fantasy team. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, if Beno can shoot the ball once every 1.5 minutes, Tony can shoot more often than every 2 and a third minutes.

[timvp]

What I don't get is what Pop has against Elson? I didn't get to see the game, but going by the boxscore it still looks like Horry is given way more time and opportunity. Doesn't make sense.

Elson got plenty of minutes in the fourth. Horry was playing because he was the only Spur coming up with rebounds in traffic.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think the loss is on Pop. I think the loss is on the players who let Harpring kill them on the boards.

I definetly think going to Duncan was horrible though. Over and over and he couldn't get a shot up over Boozer half the time.

[timvp]

Yeah, if Beno can shoot the ball once every 1.5 minutes, Tony can shoot more often than every 2 and a third minutes.

I'm still trying to figure out when Beno Udrih turned into Eddie House.

[MannyIsGod]

Beno was pretty horrible aside for a 2 possesion stretch tonight. What did he shoot?

[dimsah]

How are the Jazz such a good rebounding team? How does their sixth man small forward get more boards than our starting power forward? They're active, we're not. I see Spurs standing around all the time waiting for someone else to pick up the ball. You don't see Jazz players doing that shit.

[MannyIsGod]

Timvp should bump his Reggie Evans thread.

[ChumpDumper]

4-11

[timvp]

Beno was pretty horrible aside for a 2 possesion stretch tonight. What did he shoot?

4-for-11 in 16 minutes. I miss the Beno Udrih who used to pass.

[angel_luv]

Beno was 4- 11 from the field 2-6 from the 3 point line

[ChumpDumper]

How are the Jazz such a good rebounding team?They run a Boozer/AK/Harpring frontline quite a bit. That'll do it.

[angel_luv]

4-for-11 in 16 minutes. I miss the Beno Udrih who used to pass.


Are you going by his assists? How often do you want to see Beno shoot a game? Or do you want him to only shoot when wide open?

[IceColdBrewski]

Sorry, but this one isn't on Pop. The shots just weren't falling and every late rebound seemed to fall right into the hands of the Jazz.

Somebody call me when Manu is back in the lineup. This team is painfull to watch in the 4th quarter without him.

[pjjrfan]

I'm thinking it's lack of focus. Tim kept showing the ball which resulted in steals, blocked shots. Guy's weren't boxing out, and everyone was looking at the ball instead of reacting to it. Utah missed a lot of shots but they worked hard to get rebounds. At the end there they were doing a good job of making it hard for TD to score, no one seemed to be able to make them pay. And Finley keeps getting smaller and smaller. I would say that it was total team effort.

[timvp]

How are the Jazz such a good rebounding team? How does their sixth man small forward get more boards than our starting power forward? They're active, we're not. I see Spurs standing around all the time waiting for someone else to pick up the ball. You don't see Jazz players doing that shit.

The Jazz are a good rebounding team because they have three very good rebounders in their starting lineup and about three more very good rebounders coming off the bench.

The Spurs have like one and a half very good rebounders total.

[Kori Ellis]

This team is painfull to watch in the 4th quarter without him.

Especially in the beginning of the 4th when they were running the Elson, Finley, Barry, Bowen and Beno or whatever lineup.

[timvp]

They run a Boozer/AK/Harpring frontline quite a bit. That'll do it.

Not to mention Okur/Boozer/AK. And if they really want to rebound, they run Okur/Boozer/AK/Harpring.

:dizzy

[Cant_Be_Faded]

How do the spurs expect to win a title when we cannot rebound and our trademark defense is gone and Pop insists on not playing our two centers hardcore minutes?

[Budkin]

Ok, in the playoffs last season, especially against the Mavs, our biggest problem was rebounding. I still don't get why we didn't get anyone who could rebound. Gee Pop, our rebounding still blows!

[td4mvp21]

How is this not on Pop? Did you guys not see the lineup he put in at the start of the fourth? He is not smart with lineups the majority of the time. A few certain times he finds a good one but other times he's just stupid and stubborn. The rebounds hurt but we've been outrebounded before and won. I think if we had good lineups the shots would have fallen more.

[ChumpDumper]

I thought our D was pretty good save the three pointers.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It was the same play over and over again: 4 down and wait for the double to swing it to Bruce. Bruce had a great night, but he's going to make far more 3s off of Tony's penetration because he can setup in the corner that way.

Also, we were lucky to be so close after the lineup he trotted out to start the fourth with again. If not for a lucky bounce to Beno for a layup and a shot clock beating 3 by Horry, they would have been down by double digits with 10 to go.

You're an asshole. How many NBA championship teams have you coached for? Show me some credentials or shut the fuck up. All you ever do is bitch about 4down. Pop knows what he's doing, nevermind the losing streak. Small ball wins championships.

I think that about covers the common responses :spin

Seriously though, that fourth quarter lineup is total shit. At least one of Tony, Tim, or Manu needs to be on the floor at all times.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Ok, in the playoffs last season, especially against the Mavs, our biggest problem was rebounding. I still don't get why we didn't get anyone who could rebound. Gee Pop, our rebounding still blows!


I've been watching mavericks games here and there. Know your enemy. They not only dominate spurs at offensive rebounds, they're doing that to alot of teams. Does not look good if we end up playing them again.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I've been watching mavericks games here and there. Know your enemy. They not only dominate spurs at offensive rebounds, they're doing that to alot of teams. Does not look good if we end up playing them again.

Of course, Elson doesn't even get the run to do some damage...

[MannyIsGod]

I understand Manu is out, and he'd probably be in there with that lineup if he wasn't, but fucking ADAPT. You can afford to change things up a bit so that you give yourself a better shot to win these games.

[T Park]

holding a team 21 points under what they average and low 40s is good D.

[ChumpDumper]

I thought the Jazz pulled away after the shitty lineup went out. It was flukey but that's all I remember. I guess in game rest doesn't help our guys.

[MannyIsGod]

Elson got some run tonight, and he was good but inconsistent. He would get a few rebounds in a row, then he'd give up a few. I know that one person can't do it all, and I much prefer his "activeness" to Horry's lethargy, but he didn't really tear it up tonight either.

And Oberto has been MIA the past 2 games. I really hope his early season play doesn't turn out to be fool's gold.

[T Park]

but fucking ADAPT. You can afford to change things up a bit so that you give yourself a better shot to win these games

adapt to what?

Play Parker 44 minutes a night?

run Eric Williams out there?

Ginobili not being there just makes the team's guards that much worse.

[Kori Ellis]

I thought the Jazz pulled away after the shitty lineup went out.

They did. When Duncan came back in, then they pulled away ironically. But I still don't like a lineup of a confused Elson and four smalls.

[MannyIsGod]

I thought the Jazz pulled away after the shitty lineup went out. It was flukey but that's all I remember. I guess in game rest doesn't help our guys.They did, because thats when Boozer came back in. Pop brought Duncan back in at that point and proceeded to try to go through Boozer each and every play. Boozer just flat out owned TD tonight. TD killed every other big they put on him, but when Boozer was on him it was the exact opposite.

[MannyIsGod]

adapt to what?

Play Parker 44 minutes a night?

run Eric Williams out there?

Ginobili not being there just makes the team's guards that much worse.You find better times to rest Tim and Tony and you keep at least one of them on the court at all times for starters. That doesn't mean you have to play Tony the entire game.

Pop hates to change his rotations. Thats why he won't start Barry and insists on starting Finley. THats why he keeps trotting out these useless lineups at the start of the fourth.

If Horry misses that 3 and if Beno doesn't get that lucky bounce on his near TO, then there are a lot more pissed off Spurs fans about that lineup.

[timvp]

I'm just hoping the Spurs don't play the Jazz in the playoffs. The Spurs have gotten outrebounded by the Mavs like 9 or 10 games in a row. And the Mavs aren't even that good of a rebounding team.

This Jazz team is the best rebounding team of the last four or five years. If they stay healthy, they are going to be impossible to keep off the glass.

Manu is the team's best perimeter rebounder so without him the Spurs were lucky to only get outrebounded by 16 or whatever it ended up as. Oberto's one rebound in 20 minutes was pathetic. Elson is a pretty good rebounder, but he can be pushed off of his position.

Duncan is the Spurs only good rebounder.

Scary.

[MannyIsGod]

Say it:

Reggie Evans

[MannyIsGod]

I didn't really want him, but god damn if I don't wish he was a Spur now.

[ShoogarBear]

I didn't get to see the game, but it looks like Finley gets one of these for the night:

:guin

[timvp]

Say it:

Reggie Evans


Hell, at this point I'd settle for Linton Johnson. Getting no rebounding out of your small forward position hurts.

[Budkin]

Hopefully we pick up a couple decent rebounders before the trade deadline. If we could just get boards we'd be good to go.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I think elson can rebound decently

pop just refuses to play him

[MannyIsGod]

I really don't understand why Finley is missing so badly. His shot LOOKS very good. Hopefully he comes out of the slump soon, but he's really really off right now.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

trade beno for evans

[timvp]

Stat of the night:

Carlos Boozer had as many rebounds as the Spurs' starting linuep.

[Que Gee]

Eh, I don't agree this one is on Pop. The Spurs aren't a very good rebounding team. The Jazz are the best in the business.

And going to Tim was the right move. Parker wasn't aggressive at all until after the game was over. No one else was doing anything, so of course you go to Tim downlow. The problem was Tim was going for the foul more than he was trying to just score the ball.

Pop coached a decent game. Getting outrebounded and not being able to knock down open outside shots will lose you more games than not.

He didn't have much of a choice either. Fin, Beno, Horry, a combined 6 for 24...where was he going to go? And why Beno is getting 11 shots a game is beyond me.

[Que Gee]

I understand Manu is out, and he'd probably be in there with that lineup if he wasn't, but fucking ADAPT. You can afford to change things up a bit so that you give yourself a better shot to win these games.

AGREED. Its not like Manu has been lighting it up anyway.

[ShoogarBear]

Well, at least Oberto didn't hurt his FG% much. So the guys who said he'd continue to shoot 70% for the year may be right.

[Kori Ellis]

He didn't have much of a choice. Fin, Beno, Horry, a combined 6 for 24...where was he going to go? And why Beno is getting 11 shots a game is beyond me.

Beno is a chucker now. I don't know when that transformation happened, but he really just chucks it up there the majority of the time he's on the floor. I don't know if he's desperate to perform now or what.

[T Park]

I wonder if hes standing next to Parker when Pop looks Tony's way and says "Shoot more" and hes misinterpreting.

[Que Gee]

Beno is a chucker now. I don't know when that transformation happened, but he really just chucks it up there the majority of the time he's on the floor. I don't know if he's desperate to perform now or what.

Since the Dallas game, Beno has crumbled.

[ChumpDumper]

I think Beno must have the green light to chuck it -- he doesn't get yanked for it, he gets yanked for defensive lapses. I'm trying to look up a FGA/48 stat -- he must be close to leading the team.

[leemajors]

it looked like tim was waiting a bit long for the doubles to come late in the game. too much 4 down and parker trying to do everything himself. i would like to have seen some more movement in the second half, but it i imagine that would have happened if more shots were falling anyway. i didn't see the first half, was the ball movement a lot better?

[Solid D]

Believe it or not, tonight Pop went small (Elson, Finley, Bowen, Udrih and Parker) in the 4th quarter and parlayed a deficit into a 3 point lead. Unfortunately, Boozer came in so Pop put Timmy back in and the rest was history.

Rebounding and a big differential at the FT line (9 points more) spelled the difference in the game. Down the stretch - the Spurs wilted and the Jazz ran strong through the tape.

Sad as it seems, Udrih scored 11 of the bench's 20 points.

[whottt]

Tony and Tim didn't do a very good job of finding the open men in the second half...that's what Duncan did so well in the first half.

You know...I don't think the Spurs are as bad of a rebounding team as they were last year, I actually think they can be pretty decent on the board if they actually attempt it. Boozer flat out out hustled Duncan for some boards tonight.


Anyway...I don't really think this one was on Pop, and the 4th quarter lineup with Beno and Barry was better than Vaughn and Finley...at least Barry can serve as a PG and will find the open guy...and did.

We do need one of Manu, Tim or Tony on there but I understand why it didn't happen with Manu out.



In closing I'd just like to say....Suprise....the Spurs need a long SF. I know, revelation.

We need a guy that's capable of handling SF's and 2 guards that go 235+.....our SF rotation of 35 year old, 6-,6 200lb shooting guards can't work miracles and that is a weakness that will continue to be exploited until we fix it. Fix that and we also solve the position where the rebounding disparity lies.


I don't have a doubt that if someone wants to go look at 82 games.com where they rate the Spurs statistically by position, there will be a huge disparity in boards at the SF position moreso than any other position.

For 2 guards Barry, Finley and Manu are all above average as rebounders IMO, as SF's they are well below average.

[T Park]

too much 4 down and parker trying to do everything himself

more Bowen or Horry running off picks?

[freemeat]

I somewhat agree that Pop is to "blame" for this, but there were some bold moves that I really appreciated on his part. Around the 10-9 minute mark remaining on the clock in the fourth, with the Spurs down 5 or 7, he made the lineup look like this: Tony, Beno, Finley, Bowen and Elson. Elson was the obvious center, but all other positions were up for grabs. They worked a great inside-outside strategy for a few minutes trying to feed Elson and get him double-teamed in order to kick the ball out for a quick shot (or, of course, pass to the nearest quick shot).

I can't fault Pop on this other than NOT trying out the same strategy with Timmy instead of Elson. His main problem is that he is too passive with subs, but is too active with changing the game plan. I loved the "1 big man, 4 guard" strat in order to get either the big or any number of shooters into the flow, as well as being able to pick up the pace for some quick scoring. I think the ideal situation, though, is having that strategy with Timmy, Tony, Manu, Barry and Bowen. It would be deadly.

Expect it come playoff time. I think it's too early in the season to give Pop any blame for anything. It's basically still "pre-season" to him.

[SlovenianGuy]

Beno is a chucker now. I don't know when that transformation happened, but he really just chucks it up there the majority of the time he's on the floor. I don't know if he's desperate to perform now or what.

But he was still one of only two players with a positive point differential. The other one was Horry.

Horry +5
Udrih +4
Barry -3
Finley -6
Bowen -6
Elson -6
Oberto -7
Parker -10
Duncan -11

[TDMVPDPOY]

time for a new coach!!!

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

time for a new coach!!!
Pop and Timmy are in it together. Pop fits in too well with the Spurs, I can't imagine what it'd be like for the Spurs to be under someone else.

Besides I think Pop is using these games as a "lab" :lol

This year there doesn't look to be any particular regular season race like last year. Pistons aren't looming, you can't predict the winner, etc. Better we just take it easy and tinker around and lose a few battles. (Hence the Mavs could keep their stinkin W from last week. And Pop didn't argue in a classy way) Though I was really confused with that 4th quarter line-up he started when we were right there with the Mavs... and apparently he's still having strange 4th quarter squads at the beginning of these last three games as well.

[Solid D]

I somewhat agree that Pop is to "blame" for this, but there were some bold moves that I really appreciated on his part. Around the 10-9 minute mark remaining on the clock in the fourth, with the Spurs down 5 or 7, he made the lineup look like this: Tony, Beno, Finley, Bowen and Elson. Elson was the obvious center, but all other positions were up for grabs. They worked a great inside-outside strategy for a few minutes trying to feed Elson and get him double-teamed in order to kick the ball out for a quick shot (or, of course, pass to the nearest quick shot).

I can't fault Pop on this other than NOT trying out the same strategy with Timmy instead of Elson. His main problem is that he is too passive with subs, but is too active with changing the game plan. I loved the "1 big man, 4 guard" strat in order to get either the big or any number of shooters into the flow, as well as being able to pick up the pace for some quick scoring. I think the ideal situation, though, is having that strategy with Timmy, Tony, Manu, Barry and Bowen. It would be deadly.

Expect it come playoff time. I think it's too early in the season to give Pop any blame for anything. It's basically still "pre-season" to him.

You've just described going "small", or "small-ball" as some in here would say lovingly. Pop went away from it when Boozer came back in.

[2centsworth]

Spurs perimeter players just don't block out.

[Spurminator]

I absolutely think Beno's chucking is a Pop directive. I think Pop is trying to maintain a consistent offensive approach from his point guards throughout the game in order to avoid a lapse. In the past, Beno's been a decent shooter, but that may be because he was more selective with his shots...

[tlongII]

The Spurs need their Big 3 to all be healthy. Their complimentary players suck ass, but if they have Ginobili, Parker, and Duncan all in good shape they can beat anybody. Ginobili is hurting right now. That's why you lost.

[SuperManu!!!]

But he was still one of only two players with a positive point differential. The other one was Horry.

Horry +5
Udrih +4
Barry -3
Finley -6
Bowen -6
Elson -6
Oberto -7
Parker -10
Duncan -11


Those numbers can't be right...they should be the other way

[Bruno]

Pop ask Beno and Tony to shot a lot and he is right.

Spurs need some scoring from their PG spot because Spurs' scoring from SG/SF/PF/C isn't enough. Just look at who plays at these spots for Spurs :
- 3 weak offensive players : Elson, Oberto and Bowen.
- 3 old shooters who can't create their own shot : Barry, Finley and Horry.
- Ginobili : who isn't a lot of the court because he is often injured and because he only plays 30 mpg when he is healthy. Scoring isn't too Ginobili main quality : he has "only" scored 16 ppg in his best season.
- Duncan : he is a great player but he isn't a scoring machine.

With Manu out, Finley and Horry cold : Beno has to shot a lot. People should realize that with Manu out Beno is the Spurs biggest perimeter thread when Tony is on the bench. We all have witnessed during the Mavs game at the start of the 4th quarter what happened when the PG isn't aggresive on the offensive end : Spurs offense is atrocious because nobody can create something. Beno shooting at a low FG% isn't a good thing for Spurs but it's better that Beno not shooting at all. Beno is too a good shooter, his FG% will likely soon raise, it's just a bod shooting streak.

[2centsworth]

Pop ask Beno and Tony to shot a lot and he is right.

Spurs need some scoring from their PG spot because Spurs' scoring from SG/SF/PF/C isn't enough. Just look at who plays at these spots for Spurs :
- 3 weak offensive players : Elson, Oberto and Bowen.
- 3 old shooters who can't create their own shot : Barry, Finley and Horry.
- Ginobili : who isn't a lot of the court because he is often injured and because he only plays 30 mpg when he is healthy. Scoring isn't too Ginobili main quality : he has "only" scored 16 ppg in his best season.
- Duncan : he is a great player but he isn't a scoring machine.

With Manu out, Finley and Horry cold : Beno has to shot a lot. People should realize that with Manu out Beno is the Spurs biggest perimeter thread when Tony is on the bench. We all have witnessed during the Mavs game at the start of the 4th quarter what happened when the PG isn't aggresive on the offensive end : Spurs offense is atrocious because nobody can create something. Beno shooting at a low FG% isn't a good thing for Spurs but it's better that Beno not shooting at all. Beno is too a good shooter, his FG% will likely soon raise, it's just a bod shooting streak.
you make sense but the Spurs are in trouble if Beno is there best hope.


Spurs need another player who can create, what's Allen Iverson doing these days?

[MannyIsGod]

I think the assertion that Barry and Finley can't create shots is completely false. The difference being that right now Finley can't make a shot to save his life.

[Mr. Body]

Beno was instructed to shoot more. The Spurs desperately need scoring on the floor, especially since the bench is filled with guys who can score only in static sets, beyond the blue moon forays into the paint by Barry or Finley. We badly miss another player who can get points on his own and that lack of dynamism hurts us. Beno likely isn't that player, since he fails to be consistent, but that's what we need.

[2centsworth]

I think the assertion that Barry and Finley can't create shots is completely false. The difference being that right now Finley can't make a shot to save his life.I was more talking about guys who finsih at the rim. We need another guy who can attack the basket.

someone like Allen Iverson or Richard Jefferson. What would Caron Butler cost the Spurs?

[Bruno]

I think the assertion that Barry and Finley can't create shots is completely false.

This year :
95% of Barry's shots are assisted
76% of Finley's shots are assisted

Last year :
78% of Barry's shots are assisted
79% of Finley's shots are assisted

[Bruno]

you make sense but the Spurs are in trouble if Beno is there best hope.


It will be quite different for the playoffs. The big 3 (especially Duncan and Manu) will play more and shot more.

[MannyIsGod]

This year :
95% of Barry's shots are assisted
76% of Finley's shots are assisted

Last year :
78% of Barry's shots are assisted
79% of Finley's shots are assistedNaturally thats going to be the case when both are the 3rd option at best in most scenarios. There are 3 players on this team that get isolation plays and the rest play within the offense. Thats not to say that Finely and Barry are not capable penatrators.

[2centsworth]

Thats not to say that Finely and Barry are not capable penatrators.that's not their strength. Otherwise, Pop would use them as penetrators. If Fin was Richard Jefferson the spurs would run isos for him and very little spot up jump shots though he is a capable jump shooter.

[MannyIsGod]

You don't need to run isos to get scoring from these guys going to the paint. You can run them off screens and open up other options as well. Isolation basketball is what gets this team into trouble, its not a solution.

When we stagnate this offense sucks, and thats exactly what happens when you sit around and watch. It happend last night as they tried to dump it down into TIm time and time again. This team has the tools to be the best screen and roll team since Stockton and Malone and they go away from it so damn much.

[Bruno]

Thats not to say that Finely and Barry are not capable penatrators.

I don't find that Finley and Barry are capable penatrators. Finley has shown some post skills this year but it works well only when the matchup is very favourable.
To me, Beno is the best of the rest (Spur minus the big 3) to disrupt a defense.

[2centsworth]

You don't need to run isos to get scoring from these guys going to the paint. You can run them off screens and open up other options as well. Isolation basketball is what gets this team into trouble, its not a solution.

When we stagnate this offense sucks, and thats exactly what happens when you sit around and watch. It happend last night as they tried to dump it down into TIm time and time again. This team has the tools to be the best screen and roll team since Stockton and Malone and they go away from it so damn much.
noted, but who are they going to screen with? To be a great screen and roll team the screener has to be a pretty darn good roll/finisher, like Malone was. I've seen Elson trying to set screens and that certainly is not his stregth. I guess we can screen and roll with Tim and Barry but that would require taking the ball out of Tony's hands which I'm all for if Tony continues to take quick jumpers.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't find that Finley and Barry are capable penatrators. Finley has shown some post skills this year but it works well only when the matchup is very favourable.
To me, Beno is the best of the rest (Spur minus the big 3) to disrupt a defense.Beno has the ability to get free for a shot at any point, but the problem is he's never been a capable scorer off of those shots. Beno's best atribute has always been his ability to pass and that goes right down the tubes when you turn him into a scoring first guard.

Beno as a scorer is a far worse option than Barry or Finley as a scorer.

[Bruno]

Beno has the ability to get free for a shot at any point, but the problem is he's never been a capable scorer off of those shots. Beno's best atribute has always been his ability to pass and that goes right down the tubes when you turn him into a scoring first guard.

Beno as a scorer is a far worse option than Barry or Finley as a scorer.

I quite disagree with that.
I don't find that Barry and Finley are better scoring option than beno. Finley is colder than Beno and Barry isn't aggresive enough.
If you want to disrupt a defense well, passing isn't enough. You had to be aggressive and to take some shots.
Since Beno is with Spurs, he has always shot a lot and everybody has said that he was a good point guard on the offensive end. This year, he is just in a bad shooting streak and people call him a chucker. :spin

[2centsworth]

I quite disagree with that.
I don't find that Barry and Finley are better scoring option than beno. Finley is colder than Beno and Barry isn't aggresive enough.
If you want to disrupt a defense well, passing isn't enough. You had to be aggressive and to take some shots.
Since Beno is with Spurs, he has always shot a lot and everybody has said that he was a good point guard on the offensive end. This year, he is just in a bad shooting streak and people call him a chucker. :spin
Beno is slow and can't finish around the rim. He needs to be more consistent with his jumper if he wants to continue playing in the NBA.

[VaSpursFan]

beno is forcing the issue now with his shot selection. IMO, these aren't smart shots taken within the flow of the offense. there were several times last night when he took shots that the extra pass would have led to a better shot. he's a skilled passer but he's chucking away right now. his shot off the dribble is horrible. i think he's a better spot up shooter so curling off screens would be better for him.

[Kori Ellis]

Since Beno is with Spurs, he has always shot a lot and everybody has said that he was a good point guard on the offensive end. This year, he is just in a bad shooting streak and people call him a chucker. :spin

Are you watching the games and seeing his shot selection?

If so, you'd call him a chucker. It's not even close to how he played basketball last year.

[timvp]

If the Spurs wanted their backup point guard to play the role Beno is playing this year, they should have seriously gone after someone like Eddie House, Troy Hudson, Jeff McInnis or any other scoring backup point guard.

Beno is a pass-first point guard that goes out there playing like he's Gilbert Arenas's long lost brother. Problem is that he's been shooting poorly this year and he's too out of shape to finish at the rim.

I miss the Beno who would come in and pass-first and then wait for an open shot. He'd still get a lot of shots up but the shots were in the offense. Now a lot of his shots are just him bringing the ball up and shooting it. You take away his fluke game of nine assists and Robert Horry has as many assists as Beno. That's not right.

But the Utah game, Beno wasn't one of the main problems. Problem 1A was rebounding. 1B was players like Michael Finley not being able to hit a mormon if he threw the ball into the stands. I'm getting sick of Finley charity minutes.

Right now Eric Williams should get some looks because if Finley can't hit shots, he's worthless.

[Bruno]

Are you watching the games and seeing his shot selection?

If so, you'd call him a chucker. It's not even close to how he played basketball last year.

Yes I've watched Spurs games and Beno take some bad shots but I've noticed too that Spurs offense is pathetic when both Duncan and Tony are on the bench. Spurs have a lot of difficulties to get a good shot in this case and I won't blame Beno (or Finley) for taking a quite bad shot because someone has to shot.
And it's even worse now that Manu is out.

[VaSpursFan]

Yes I've watched Spurs games and Beno take some bad shots but I've noticed too that Spurs offense is pathetic when both Duncan and Tony are on the bench. Spurs have a lot of difficulties to get a good shot in this case and I won't blame Beno (or Finley) for taking a quite bad shot because someone has to shot.
And it's even worse now that Manu is out.

the past 2 games have been chuck city for beno. he's coming in the game like he's vinnie "the microwave" johnson. 2 to 3 dribbles past half court and let her rip.

the spurs are having difficulties getting shots because of 4 down. there is very little cutting and movement after the dump down to tim. it's back to where we pass the ball and watch him. if you don't cut, it leads to him getting doubled. and for the life of me, i cannot figure out why none of the spurs players cut to the rim when there man leaves to double. that's how you get the defense rotating. cutting will suck in the defense, shift it and lead to an open shot somewhere. it seems like we're content standing around the 3 pt line; esentially falling back into old bad habits. hopefully some practices and a few good film sessions will rememedy this. earlier in the season, the ball movement was much crisper.

[objective]

Beno's shoot first mentality started IMO after the Houston game where he got hot and got credit for saving the day and shot 3-3 from 3.

After the Houston game he started taking some wild, quick shots, a lot of them off balance. And after the Houston game in his next 10 3-point attempts he was 1-10. Now he's slightly better at 4-18.

All of a sudden he's turned into Vinnie Johnson except for the making shots part.