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Nbadan
11-04-2004, 01:48 PM
Kerry Won

Greg Palast
November 04, 2004


Bush won Ohio by 136,483 votes. Typically in the United States, about 3 percent of votes cast are voided—known as “spoilage” in election jargon—because the ballots cast are inconclusive. Palast’s investigation suggests that if Ohio’s discarded ballots were counted, Kerry would have won the state. Today, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports there are a total of 247,672 votes not counted in Ohio, if you add the 92,672 discarded votes plus the 155,000 provisional ballots.

Greg Palast, contributing editor to Harper's magazine, investigated the manipulation of the vote for BBC Television's Newsnight. The documentary, "Bush Family Fortunes," based on his New York Times bestseller, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, has been released this month on DVD .

Kerry won. Here's the facts.

I know you don't want to hear it. You can't face one more hung chad. But I don't have a choice. As a journalist examining that messy sausage called American democracy, it's my job to tell you who got the most votes in the deciding states. Tuesday, in Ohio and New Mexico, it was John Kerry.

Most voters in Ohio thought they were voting for Kerry. CNN's exit poll showed Kerry beating Bush among Ohio women by 53 percent to 47 percent. Kerry also defeated Bush among Ohio's male voters 51 percent to 49 percent. Unless a third gender voted in Ohio, Kerry took the state.

So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate. Pollsters ask, "Who did you vote for?" Unfortunately, they don't ask the crucial, question, "Was your vote counted?" The voters don't know.

Here's why. Although the exit polls show that most voters in Ohio punched cards for Kerry-Edwards, thousands of these votes were simply not recorded. This was predictable and it was predicted.

Once again, at the heart of the Ohio uncounted vote game are, I'm sorry to report, hanging chads and pregnant chads, plus some other ballot tricks old and new.

The election in Ohio was not decided by the voters but by something called "spoilage." Typically in the United States, about 3 percent of the vote is voided, just thrown away, not recorded. When the bobble-head boobs on the tube tell you Ohio or any state was won by 51 percent to 49 percent, don't you believe it ... it has never happened in the United States, because the total never reaches a neat 100 percent. The television totals simply subtract out the spoiled vote.

And not all vote spoil equally. Most of those votes, say every official report, come from African American and minority precincts. (To learn more, click here.)

We saw this in Florida in 2000. Exit polls showed Gore with a plurality of at least 50,000, but it didn't match the official count. That's because the official, Secretary of State Katherine Harris, excluded 179,855 spoiled votes. In Florida, as in Ohio, most of these votes lost were cast on punch cards where the hole wasn't punched through completely—leaving a 'hanging chad,'—or was punched extra times. Whose cards were discarded? Expert statisticians investigating spoilage for the government calculated that 54 percent of the ballots thrown in the dumpster were cast by black folks. (To read the report from the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, click here .)

And here's the key: Florida is terribly typical. The majority of ballots thrown out (there will be nearly 2 million tossed out from Tuesday's election) will have been cast by African American and other minority citizens.

So here we go again. Or, here we don't go again. Because unlike last time, Democrats aren't even asking Ohio to count these cards with the not-quite-punched holes (called "undervotes" in the voting biz).

Ohio is one of the last states in America to still use the vote-spoiling punch-card machines. And the Secretary of State of Ohio, J. Kenneth Blackwell, wrote before the election, “the possibility of a close election with punch cards as the state’s primary voting device invites a Florida-like calamity.”

But this week, Blackwell, a rabidly partisan Republican, has warmed up to the result of sticking with machines that have a habit of eating Democratic votes. When asked if he feared being this year's Katherine Harris, Blackwell noted that Ms. Fix-it's efforts landed her a seat in Congress.

Exactly how many votes were lost to spoilage this time? Blackwell's office, notably, won't say, though the law requires it be reported. Hmm. But we know that last time, the total of Ohio votes discarded reached a democracy-damaging 1.96 percent. The machines produced their typical loss—that's 110,000 votes—overwhelmingly Democratic.

The Impact Of Challenges

First and foremost, Kerry was had by chads. But the Democrat wasn't punched out by punch cards alone. There were also the 'challenges.' That's a polite word for the Republican Party of Ohio's use of an old Ku Klux Klan technique: the attempt to block thousands of voters of color at the polls. In Ohio, Wisconsin and Florida, the GOP laid plans for poll workers to ambush citizens under arcane laws—almost never used—allowing party-designated poll watchers to finger individual voters and demand they be denied a ballot. The Ohio courts were horrified and federal law prohibits targeting of voters where race is a factor in the challenge. But our Supreme Court was prepared to let Republicans stand in the voting booth door.

In the end, the challenges were not overwhelming, but they were there. Many apparently resulted in voters getting these funky "provisional" ballots—a kind of voting placebo—which may or may not be counted. Blackwell estimates there were 175,000; Democrats say 250,000. Pick your number. But as challenges were aimed at minorities, no one doubts these are, again, overwhelmingly Democratic. Count them up, add in the spoiled punch cards (easy to tally with the human eye in a recount), and the totals begin to match the exit polls; and, golly, you've got yourself a new president. Remember, Bush won by 136,483 votes in Ohio.

Enchanted State's Enchanted Vote

Now, on to New Mexico, where a Kerry plurality—if all votes are counted—is more obvious still. Before the election, in TomPaine.com, I wrote, "John Kerry is down by several thousand votes in New Mexico, though not one ballot has yet been counted."

How did that happen? It's the spoilage, stupid; and the provisional ballots.

CNN said George Bush took New Mexico by 11,620 votes. Again, the network total added up to that miraculous, and non-existent, '100 percent' of ballots cast.

New Mexico reported in the last race a spoilage rate of 2.68 percent, votes lost almost entirely in Hispanic, Native American and poor precincts—Democratic turf. From Tuesday's vote, assuming the same ballot-loss rate, we can expect to see 18,000 ballots in the spoilage bin.

Spoilage has a very Democratic look in New Mexico. Hispanic voters in the Enchanted State, who voted more than two to one for Kerry, are five times as likely to have their vote spoil as a white voter. Counting these uncounted votes would easily overtake the Bush 'plurality.'

Already, the election-bending effects of spoilage are popping up in the election stats, exactly where we'd expect them: in heavily Hispanic areas controlled by Republican elections officials. Chaves County, in the "Little Texas" area of New Mexico, has a 44 percent Hispanic population, plus African Americans and Native Americans, yet George Bush "won" there 68 percent to 31 percent.

I spoke with Chaves' Republican county clerk before the election, and he told me that this huge spoilage rate among Hispanics simply indicated that such people simply can't make up their minds on the choice of candidate for president. Oddly, these brown people drive across the desert to register their indecision in a voting booth.

Now, let's add in the effect on the New Mexico tally of provisional ballots.

"They were handing them out like candy," Albuquerque journalist Renee Blake reported of provisional ballots. About 20,000 were given out. Who got them?

Santiago Juarez who ran the "Faithful Citizenship" program for the Catholic Archdiocese in New Mexico, told me that "his" voters, poor Hispanics, whom he identified as solid Kerry supporters, were handed the iffy provisional ballots. Hispanics were given provisional ballots, rather than the countable kind "almost religiously," he said, at polling stations when there was the least question about a voter's identification. Some voters, Santiago said, were simply turned away.

Your Kerry Victory Party

So we can call Ohio and New Mexico for John Kerry—if we count all the votes.

But that won't happen. Despite the Democratic Party's pledge, the leadership this time gave in to racial disenfranchisement once again. Why? No doubt, the Democrats know darn well that counting all the spoiled and provisional ballots will require the cooperation of Ohio's Secretary of State, Blackwell. He will ultimately decide which spoiled and provisional ballots get tallied. Blackwell, hankering to step into Kate Harris' political pumps, is unlikely to permit anything close to a full count. Also, Democratic leadership knows darn well the media would punish the party for demanding a full count.

What now? Kerry won, so hold your victory party. But make sure the shades are down: it may be become illegal to demand a full vote count under PATRIOT Act III.

I used to write a column for the Guardian papers in London. Several friends have asked me if I will again leave the country. In light of the failure—a second time—to count all the votes, that won't be necessary. My country has left me.

Marcus Bryant
11-04-2004, 01:51 PM
It was only a matter of time. So much for the 'GOP won by scaring people' angle.

danny boy has finally returned to his bread and butter and pinned the sweeping GOP victory on a grand conspiracy.

bigzak25
11-04-2004, 01:53 PM
I like this line in your article Dan. I think you should take it to heart.



Remember, Bush won by 136,483 votes in Ohio.

I'd like to commend you on your iraqi prime minister imitations though....i think you are a comic genius... :smokin

1369
11-04-2004, 01:53 PM
I'm just suprised it took him this long...

Spurminator
11-04-2004, 01:55 PM
As a journalist

:lmao

Thanks for fulfilling your journalistic obligation to write a seethingly bitter, conjecture-soaked rant.

Nbadan
11-04-2004, 01:58 PM
Of course, facts are beyond most of the right-wingers in this forum. Kerry won the vote, get over it.

Aggie Hoopsfan
11-04-2004, 01:58 PM
Exit polls <> actual votes.

Unless every single person at every single poll is asked, there is significant error built into exit polling.

Of course, leave it to a dumbass liberal conspiracy whacko to argue that an exit poll with sampling errors should trump actual votes cast.

bigzak25
11-04-2004, 02:01 PM
and if people asked me who i voted for in the swing states, i'd lie and say kerry so that his supporters could think there guy was ahead, and stay home.....

Spurminator
11-04-2004, 02:03 PM
These are not "facts":


Answer: the exit polls are accurate.


Blackwell, a rabidly partisan Republican


the GOP laid plans for poll workers to ambush citizens under arcane laws


no one doubts these are, again, overwhelmingly Democratic


So we can call Ohio and New Mexico for John Kerry—if we count all the votes.

Nbadan
11-04-2004, 02:09 PM
His research is not based on exit polls, but on actual votes placed. We'll keep all this buried though because we wouldn't want the 'darkies' knowing that their votes didn't count as much as caucasion votes counted.

Maybe that's what Kerry meant by a divided country?

2pac
11-04-2004, 02:11 PM
What rag was this published in?


Kerry Won

Greg Palast
November 04, 2004


Bush won Ohio by 136,483 votes. Typically in the United States, about 3 percent of votes cast are voided—known as “spoilage” in election jargon—because the ballots cast are inconclusive. Palast’s investigation suggests that if Ohio’s discarded ballots were counted, Kerry would have won the state. Today, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports there are a total of 247,672 votes not counted in Ohio, if you add the 92,672 discarded votes plus the 155,000 provisional ballots.

Assuming 100% of them voted for Kerry, he would have a slim margin.



Greg Palast, contributing editor to Harper's magazine, investigated the manipulation of the vote for BBC Television's Newsnight. The documentary, "Bush Family Fortunes," based on his New York Times bestseller, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, has been released this month on DVD .

Kerry won. Here's the facts.

I know you don't want to hear it. You can't face one more hung chad. But I don't have a choice. As a journalist examining that messy sausage called American democracy, it's my job to tell you who got the most votes in the deciding states. Tuesday, in Ohio and New Mexico, it was John Kerry.

Most voters in Ohio thought they were voting for Kerry. CNN's exit poll showed Kerry beating Bush among Ohio women by 53 percent to 47 percent. Kerry also defeated Bush among Ohio's male voters 51 percent to 49 percent. Unless a third gender voted in Ohio, Kerry took the state.


Exit polls are notoriously unreliable.
First - scientific polls are not based voluntary responses. ESPN.com poll of the day is not scientific, and that is basically what exit polls are.

This is the main point he has for Kerry - and it is made in a complete absence of logic.



So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate. Pollsters ask, "Who did you vote for?" Unfortunately, they don't ask the crucial, question, "Was your vote counted?" The voters don't know.

Exit polls are not accurate. How the question was asked is a minor part of the reliability of the poll.



Here's why. Although the exit polls show that most voters in Ohio punched cards for Kerry-Edwards, thousands of these votes were simply not recorded. This was predictable and it was predicted.

He is grasping at straws. He has no reason to believe and no way to show that this is the case.



Once again, at the heart of the Ohio uncounted vote game are, I'm sorry to report, hanging chads and pregnant chads, plus some other ballot tricks old and new.

The election in Ohio was not decided by the voters but by something called "spoilage." Typically in the United States, about 3 percent of the vote is voided, just thrown away, not recorded. When the bobble-head boobs on the tube tell you Ohio or any state was won by 51 percent to 49 percent, don't you believe it ... it has never happened in the United States, because the total never reaches a neat 100 percent. The television totals simply subtract out the spoiled vote.

It does reach a neat 100%. 100% of the votes that count. Votes dont count if the person made a mistake, was no eligable, voted multiple times, etc.



And not all vote spoil equally. Most of those votes, say every official report, come from African American and minority precincts. (To learn more, click here.)

No link, smart guy.



We saw this in Florida in 2000. Exit polls showed Gore with a plurality of at least 50,000, but it didn't match the official count. That's because the official, Secretary of State Katherine Harris, excluded 179,855 spoiled votes. In Florida, as in Ohio, most of these votes lost were cast on punch cards where the hole wasn't punched through completely—leaving a 'hanging chad,'—or was punched extra times. Whose cards were discarded? Expert statisticians investigating spoilage for the government calculated that 54 percent of the ballots thrown in the dumpster were cast by black folks. (To read the report from the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, click here .)

Yes - read this as - if you voted for multiple people for President, no one gets the vote. If you vote but dont push the deal all the way through, it doesnt count.


And here's the key: Florida is terribly typical. The majority of ballots thrown out (there will be nearly 2 million tossed out from Tuesday's election) will have been cast by African American and other minority citizens.

Scare tactics. He has no proof as to who's vote was throw out.



So here we go again. Or, here we don't go again. Because unlike last time, Democrats aren't even asking Ohio to count these cards with the not-quite-punched holes (called "undervotes" in the voting biz).

Ohio is one of the last states in America to still use the vote-spoiling punch-card machines. And the Secretary of State of Ohio, J. Kenneth Blackwell, wrote before the election, “the possibility of a close election with punch cards as the state’s primary voting device invites a Florida-like calamity.”

But this week, Blackwell, a rabidly partisan Republican, has warmed up to the result of sticking with machines that have a habit of eating Democratic votes. When asked if he feared being this year's Katherine Harris, Blackwell noted that Ms. Fix-it's efforts landed her a seat in Congress.

So much inflammatory language. Good thing it isnt a real news article.



Exactly how many votes were lost to spoilage this time? Blackwell's office, notably, won't say, though the law requires it be reported. Hmm. But we know that last time, the total of Ohio votes discarded reached a democracy-damaging 1.96 percent. The machines produced their typical loss—that's 110,000 votes—overwhelmingly Democratic.

Guess what - counting thousands of of these deals takes time. The votes were cast two days ago. Again - when Ohio doesnt even know how many there are, this fool is saying they are all democrats.



The Impact Of Challenges

First and foremost, Kerry was had by chads. But the Democrat wasn't punched out by punch cards alone. There were also the 'challenges.' That's a polite word for the Republican Party of Ohio's use of an old Ku Klux Klan technique: the attempt to block thousands of voters of color at the polls.

Not only did this not happen, the people blocking people at the polls were democrats - slashing tires, burning offices, etc.


In Ohio, Wisconsin and Florida, the GOP laid plans for poll workers to ambush citizens under arcane laws—almost never used—allowing party-designated poll watchers to finger individual voters and demand they be denied a ballot. The Ohio courts were horrified and federal law prohibits targeting of voters where race is a factor in the challenge. But our Supreme Court was prepared to let Republicans stand in the voting booth door.

Huge rhetoric with zero proof. Throw out the KKK and racism and claim the Repubs are evil without proof. Solid reporting.



In the end, the challenges were not overwhelming, but they were there. Many apparently resulted in voters getting these funky "provisional" ballots—a kind of voting placebo—which may or may not be counted. Blackwell estimates there were 175,000; Democrats say 250,000. Pick your number. But as challenges were aimed at minorities, no one doubts these are, again, overwhelmingly Democratic. Count them up, add in the spoiled punch cards (easy to tally with the human eye in a recount), and the totals begin to match the exit polls; and, golly, you've got yourself a new president. Remember, Bush won by 136,483 votes in Ohio.

So weak - claims with zero evidence.



Enchanted State's Enchanted Vote

Now, on to New Mexico, where a Kerry plurality—if all votes are counted—is more obvious still. Before the election, in TomPaine.com, I wrote, "John Kerry is down by several thousand votes in New Mexico, though not one ballot has yet been counted."

How did that happen? It's the spoilage, stupid; and the provisional ballots.

The respected and well known tompaine.com? TP.com is nothing more than a DEM blog. Great source.



CNN said George Bush took New Mexico by 11,620 votes. Again, the network total added up to that miraculous, and non-existent, '100 percent' of ballots cast.

New Mexico reported in the last race a spoilage rate of 2.68 percent, votes lost almost entirely in Hispanic, Native American and poor precincts—Democratic turf. From Tuesday's vote, assuming the same ballot-loss rate, we can expect to see 18,000 ballots in the spoilage bin.

Again - assuming they are 100% kerry, assuming it disenfranchised minorities.

Just another example of Dems trying to break up the nation.



Spoilage has a very Democratic look in New Mexico. Hispanic voters in the Enchanted State, who voted more than two to one for Kerry, are five times as likely to have their vote spoil as a white voter. Counting these uncounted votes would easily overtake the Bush 'plurality.'

Guess what - they dont know the race of the vote cards. It is not a factor and this idiot is pulling numbers out of the air with no source.


Already, the election-bending effects of spoilage are popping up in the election stats, exactly where we'd expect them: in heavily Hispanic areas controlled by Republican elections officials. Chaves County, in the "Little Texas" area of New Mexico, has a 44 percent Hispanic population, plus African Americans and Native Americans, yet George Bush "won" there 68 percent to 31 percent.
AND? There are Republican minorities.




I spoke with Chaves' Republican county clerk before the election, and he told me that this huge spoilage rate among Hispanics simply indicated that such people simply can't make up their minds on the choice of candidate for president. Oddly, these brown people drive across the desert to register their indecision in a voting booth.

Now, let's add in the effect on the New Mexico tally of provisional ballots.

"They were handing them out like candy," Albuquerque journalist Renee Blake reported of provisional ballots. About 20,000 were given out. Who got them?

Santiago Juarez who ran the "Faithful Citizenship" program for the Catholic Archdiocese in New Mexico, told me that "his" voters, poor Hispanics, whom he identified as solid Kerry supporters, were handed the iffy provisional ballots. Hispanics were given provisional ballots, rather than the countable kind "almost religiously," he said, at polling stations when there was the least question about a voter's identification. Some voters, Santiago said, were simply turned away.

Right - some voters turned away. More unfounded accounts of disenfranchisement.

If you want NM's electoral votes - take them, Bush wins without them.



Your Kerry Victory Party

So we can call Ohio and New Mexico for John Kerry—if we count all the votes.

But that won't happen. Despite the Democratic Party's pledge, the leadership this time gave in to racial disenfranchisement once again. Why? No doubt, the Democrats know darn well that counting all the spoiled and provisional ballots will require the cooperation of Ohio's Secretary of State, Blackwell. He will ultimately decide which spoiled and provisional ballots get tallied. Blackwell, hankering to step into Kate Harris' political pumps, is unlikely to permit anything close to a full count. Also, Democratic leadership knows darn well the media would punish the party for demanding a full count.

What now? Kerry won, so hold your victory party. But make sure the shades are down: it may be become illegal to demand a full vote count under PATRIOT Act III.

I used to write a column for the Guardian papers in London. Several friends have asked me if I will again leave the country. In light of the failure—a second time—to count all the votes, that won't be necessary. My country has left me.

This guy is really an idiot. Lots of unfounded and uncited claims. Its shame that democrats can win, so they have to lie.

Spurminator
11-04-2004, 02:12 PM
His research is not based on exit polls, but on actual votes placed.

No, they are based on his assumptions of actual votes placed.

Nbadan
11-04-2004, 02:15 PM
No, they are based on his assumptions of actual votes placed.

These 'assumptions' are supported by historical data. It's not hard to believe that hispanic by and large received a majority of the states provisional ballots nor that minority districts receive less than adaquate voting machines, either in reliability or quantity.

Marcus Bryant
11-04-2004, 02:20 PM
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005NNML.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[/Nbadan]

Aggie Hoopsfan
11-04-2004, 02:21 PM
Holy shit, well in that case "historical data" + exit polls with a margin of error > counting the actual votes cast.

2pac
11-04-2004, 02:26 PM
Not only that, but Kerry would have had to get ~95% of those votes to tie.

Guess what, the military gets provo ballots. But, probably only the liberal military, huh?

Spurminator
11-04-2004, 02:26 PM
They're still assumptions.

Unless you've got proof, this is nothing more than an emotional rant meant to keep the Denialcrat wing of the Democratic Party warm and cozy while Big Bad Bush approaches another term in the White House.

Marcus Bryant
11-04-2004, 02:32 PM
That great conservative columnist David Broder lays it all out...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23928-2004Nov3.html

An Old-Fashioned Win

By David S. Broder
Washington Post
Thursday, November 4, 2004; Page A25

Never shy about its claims, the Bush White House sent Chief of Staff Andrew Card out at the ungodly hour of 5:39 a.m. yesterday to assert that President Bush had won reelection by cinching the 20 electoral votes of Ohio.

This time the boast was better-founded than was the similar claim four years ago, when Florida was still locked in a dispute that was to last 36 days and wind up in the Supreme Court.

Within hours, John F. Kerry placed the phone call to the president conceding that Ohio would be in the Republican column again -- and Bush could stay in the White House.

This time, unlike 2000, Bush bested the Democratic nominee in the national popular vote, the standard most Americans tell pollsters that they believe should determine who sits in the Oval Office. He leads Kerry by 3 1/2 million votes.

And he did it the right way -- the old-fashioned way -- by galvanizing more of his supporters than Kerry managed to. This was not, as some embittered Democrats had forecast, the result of voter intimidation or suppression. Democrats and their allies in labor and liberal organizations did their best job ever of mobilizing their base, only to see the Republicans match and exceed that effort.

What happened this year was foreshadowed by the Republican success in the midterm elections of 2002. Much as it may pain them to admit it, Democrats have to realize that the combination of Bush's appeal to conservatives and the organizational techniques developed under the direction of Karl Rove are beating them at their own game.

This was another top-to-bottom Republican victory, one that expanded GOP majorities in the House and Senate, just as the 2002 election had done, and defeated the Democrats' skillful Senate leader, Tom Daschle, in the process. Bush strategist Rove and his partner, Ken Mehlman, the manager of the president's campaign, devoted an unprecedented $125 million or more and years of work to identifying potential Bush supporters in battleground states such as Ohio -- and then getting them to the polls.

They applied on a national scale the tools Rove developed with Bush's encouragement in converting Texas into a one-party Republican state during the six years of Bush's governorship.

A crucial element of the strategy is the mobilization of religious conservatives, those who are normally more conscientious about going to church than about voting. Exit polls showed more than one in five voters Tuesday named moral values as the most important issue determining their vote -- more than cited terrorism, the economy or Iraq. More than three-quarters of them supported Bush.

Terrorism was Bush's trump card in this political game, a high card he had picked up with his stalwart performance after the Sept. 11 attacks and the emotional bond he formed with millions of Americans at that time.

But the economy and Iraq had disappointed or dismayed most of those who went to the polls, and it was remarkable that Bush could overcome the issues of war and jobs that would have sunk most other candidates.

It may well turn out, once the returns are analyzed in detail, that the supreme court of Kerry's own Massachusetts helped the mobilization of these traditionalist and fundamentalist religious voters by its decision last year approving gay marriage.

That decision spurred the submission of initiatives against gay marriage that were passed on Tuesday in all 11 states where they made the ballot -- including Ohio. Phil Burress, who ran the Ohio initiative campaign, told me last week that the volunteers who collected the signatures to qualify it for the ballot also registered 54,000 new voters. The Massachusetts court decision was "a lightning bolt that hit right in the pulpit and ignited the whole congregation," he said.

That will no doubt cross Bush's mind when he contemplates choices for the Supreme Court -- a process whose imminence was dramatized on election eve by the disclosure of Chief Justice William Rehnquist's serious illness.

Democrats were well aware that the future of the judiciary was only one of the prizes at stake in this year's election. They came close to winning, and they can point to the frailty of the mandate that Bush received from a nation still deeply divided, one where most women, city dwellers and minorities voted against the president.

But the democratic process -- in an election that fulfilled all of its most important requirements -- endorsed the Bush presidency. And if we know anything about him, we know he will exercise the full powers of his office.

[email protected]

Useruser666
11-04-2004, 02:48 PM
Dan, when I read your posts I feel like I should check my forehead for those brain wave monitor/sensors.

http://img122.exs.cx/img122/7715/Mindreader.jpg

Or maybe.....



http://www.celebritypicturesarchive.com/pics/c/christopher-lloyd/christopher-lloyd-005.jpg


1.21 giggowatts! Danny do you know what that means! Kerry won't win!

Yonivore
11-04-2004, 03:46 PM
Of course, facts are beyond most of the right-wingers in this forum. Kerry won the vote, get over it.
Yeah, and who, exactly, is going to be inaugurated in January?

Get over it, indeed...

Hook Dem
11-04-2004, 03:58 PM
Have youever seen a raving lunatic such as Dan? He even surpasses Dachelle, Ted Kennedy & Al Gore. Now thats a vote for the looney bin. :lol

Aggie Hoopsfan
11-04-2004, 04:25 PM
You forgot about Howard Dean raging about going to DC.

"AWHEORIJEOHREWORH!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

PeterBurns
11-04-2004, 04:44 PM
http://auctioniraq.com/photo_gallery/baghdad_bob-002-.jpg

SpursWoman
11-04-2004, 04:56 PM
:lol

Kori Ellis
11-04-2004, 05:09 PM
Today, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports there are a total of 247,672 votes not counted in Ohio, if you add the 92,672 discarded votes plus the 155,000 provisional ballots.

How would you assume that of those 247K that enough of them would vote for Kerry for him to win?

:wtf

Marcus Bryant
11-04-2004, 05:26 PM
Assuming that all 247,672 were valid which of course is a leftist nutjob wet dream but for the sake of argument we will assume that then in order for those votes to cause a statewide tie they would have to break roughly 190,000 for Kerry and 57,000 for Bush, or 77% to 23%. Considering that those votes came from all around the state then this seems highly unlikely, unless danny wants to argue that Democrat voters are disproportionately stupid and lazy.

2pac
11-04-2004, 05:37 PM
Don't forget about the disenfranchised voters who were help up in their welfare lines all day and unable to vote.

dcole50
11-04-2004, 07:09 PM
Just stop it, dude.

Kerry conceded. Bush is the president. He won the popular vote. Just stop it. Please.

Johnny_Blaze_47
11-04-2004, 08:45 PM
Does anybody have that "Geez, Not This Shit Again" picture?

Dan, did it occur to you that some people may have LIED in their exit polling? Have you heard of something called the "Halo Effect" in which people give an answer to a question that they think may make them look better to the person asking the question.

If you asked everybody in the US if they voted, you'd probably have 200,000,000 say yes.

You could get me thinking with your argument if the difference were around 20,000 votes, but when you're closer to 200,000, I think it's just sour grapes.

3M+ people voted for the President. America has spoken and America shall have their wish. I pray that the President makes the right decisions, but I will continue to question where I think questions are necessary.

That doesn't mean I accept the President's policies, but I accept that this is the President.