Ginobili Has found his place, coming off the bench

[carib]

Lets keep him there please, its working and we need the energy, from a player like him off the bench.

[spurschick]

And thus opens the can of worms...

[ChumpDumper]

Does Argentina have any historical claim to the Bahamas?

[Cherry]

Lets keep him there please, its working and we need the energy, from a player like him off the bench.

:tu











































for now :downspin:

[beirmeistr]

it's hard to justify a $52 million contract for someone coming off the bench. those bif bucks are for starters.

[MannyIsGod]

it's hard to justify a $52 million contract for someone coming off the bench. those bif bucks are for starters.So we should make decisions based on payroll as opposed to how well it works basketball wise? Thats ridiculous.

[Kori Ellis]

The Spurs don't care about the money when it comes to playing time. What did Steve Smith make $12M? What about Mercer when he got waived? $7M?

That being said. Once Manu gets all the way back, I think he should start.

[ChumpDumper]

Eric Williams needs to play more than Bowen, Horry, Elson and Oberto.

[v2freak]

Malik Rose was making a lot too. Ginobili has so much energy that I think Barry and Finley would be better starting, as they're spot up shooters that would benefit from playing with Duncan. Ginobili can create his shot at any time, and he can create shots for others. The Spurs starters don't need more help creating shots.

No need to let blatant pride get in the way of logic, IMO. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I think it's at least worth trying for a while. Props to Pop for not rushing a comeback, and Ginobili for being so professional about it. Just my 2 cents

[timvp]

Ginobili coming off the bench would be turn him into the biggest bench weapon in the league. I've long been for the move.

Manu coming off the bench makes the Spurs deadly for 48 minutes a night.

[carib]

Ginobili do not rush it back, do it for the team, its working great. Its about the lineup that works.

Pop keep doing what you are doing, its about the ring. I am sure that we have a team of professional players.

[Fillmoe]

the title should read like this

Ginobili Has found his place, on the bench

[picnroll]

One thing for sure, whenever Beno's on the floor Ginobili should be on the floor too.

[timvp]

One thing for sure, whenever Beno's on the floor Ginobili should be on the floor too.

Pretty good point. Manu is the better ballhandler and it'd free up Beno to be more of a spot up shooter and off the ball slasher.

That's how the Slovenian national team uses Beno -- as a combo guard paired with another combo guard (in their case it's Sani Becirovic). Unless one day Beno wakes up more athletic, I don't think Beno will ever become the classic point guard Spurs fans thought he'd become.

But really, if Beno is a scorer coming off the bench, that's fine as long as he limits his mistakes and plays decent defense.

[MmP]

Same old story.

Every year the same.

[The Truth #6]

These are good points. When Manu is in the game with Tony and Tim he can get lost in the shuffle.

What Pop did tonight with the rotations was a good thing i think. He seemed to bring in a large group at once for the second unit. Beno, Manu, Brent, and Elson seemed to do pretty well together. The white guys really play well together.

I think we should stick with this. The only downside is that Finley gets too many minutes in general, and when he's out there with with Tony there is very little ball movement. Still, I like the idea of a whole new second unit coming in to give a different look.

[angel_luv]

Both Sean Elliot ( during the broadcast) and Coach Newman ( post game radio show) said Beno played well.

[aaronstampler]

As long as he gets 30 minutes at the end of the day, I don't really care if he starts or not. But the less he plays with Tony, the better it seems.

[CharlieMac]

Yeah, he should be starting. Save the brilliant move of bringing him off the bench for the day we lose a playoff game.

[SequSpur]

Pretty good point. Manu is the better ballhandler and it'd free up Beno to be more of a spot up shooter and off the ball slasher.

That's how the Slovenian national team uses Beno -- as a combo guard paired with another combo guard (in their case it's Sani Becirovic). Unless one day Beno wakes up more athletic, I don't think Beno will ever become the classic point guard Spurs fans thought he'd become.

But really, if Beno is a scorer coming off the bench, that's fine as long as he limits his mistakes and plays decent defense.


There you go again, mixing the words, good, fine, defense and Beno within the same post.

:dizzy

[TMTTRIO]

I don't mind him coming off the bench. It seems like he has a lot more room to play like himself instead of giving it all to Tim and Tony when he starts. Beno, Barry, and Manu all seem to play well with each other anyway. As long as he gets the same minutes he usually gets (once he gets healthy) then I'm fine with it.

[ATX Spur]

We have all seen that Manu has started the season slowly. He can come off the bench and still get 28-32 minutes a game. If he comes off the bench, he's out there more time without Tim and Tony, which means he gets more shots and maybe he gets going quicker.

He can still end the game with Duncan and Parker, even if he comes off the bench. It's a little funny to me how many Manu fanatics care a bit too much about him starting when I'm sure he cares much more that he plays well and the Spurs win.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

If only we found a decent shooting guard we could make play D and start, then we'd have the greatest bench player in the league. He'd be like Van Exel of Mavericks 2003.

[MannyIsGod]

He could be our Stackhouse. As much as I hate Stack, when he comes off the bench he's deadly because he's matched up with the other teams bench players who aren't as good and he gets more touches against them and it works out well for him.

Its just a way to make our 2nd team that much more deadly while not really harming the first team. I hadn't even though of the benefit to Beno PNR mentioned but that makes perfect sense. Beno looked good tonight shooting spot up jumpers as opposed to trying to be Parker Jr. and chucking up runners.

[ducks]

I thought manu had to play with oberta since he was from his country
but manu playing with beno is smart
or beno playing with barry to is smart

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

As long as he gets 30 minutes at the end of the day, I don't really care if he starts or not.

Exactly! Wherever he fits in the rotation, it doesn't matter, as long as he plays 25-35 mins a night.

He could score 18-20 off the bench if we pitted him against the other teams' second units, and when we need him in with the starters, use him there.

And yes, now that he's in shape, Eric Williams should play 15 minutes a night behind Bruce, or even more if Bruce is having a tough night.

[Kermit]

it should be obvious to anyone who has watched the spurs the last 4 years that the team is much more dangerous and deadly with manu coming off the bench. there is a dominace to that substitution unlike like any other, harkening back to the days of mchale. when he is subbed into the game, it's a tidal wave of energy and offense. i don't know why they won't make this move permanent. some players are bench players and manu fits that role to a tee. this is not a knock on the man, just an observation of his talents. like the old adage goes, it's not who starts the game, but who finishes.

[T Park]

Cousey never started.

Shit, does this really come up every year :lol

[phxspurfan]

when he is subbed into the game, it's a tidal wave of energy and offense


oooh a tidal wave of offense!!!



:downspin: :downspin:
:downspin:
:downspin:
:downspin: :downspin:
:downspin: :downspin: :downspin:
:downspin: :downspin: :downspin: :downspin:

[Kermit]

pretend that bill walton saying that and it makes perfect sense.

[T Park]

do you also accuse champagne of being apple cider?

[timvp]

If only we found a decent shooting guard we could make play D and start, then we'd have the greatest bench player in the league.

My pipe dream is to get a good rebounding small forward and start him in place of Manu and slide Bowen to shooting guard ... much like the Spurs did when they had Hedo.

Not only does that solve the rebounding problem (that 2003-04 team was the best rebounding team in modern Spurs history), it allows Bowen to avoid the matchups that most trouble him (Artest, LeBron, etc).

The reason it works so well is Manu plays as well, if not better, off the bench. He comes in and attacks right away. It's such an advantage to have a guy come in and dominate the way Manu does.

One problem with this theory is that as it stands, the Spurs have no one to really fill that rebounding small forward role. Finley and Barry aren't good enough defenders or rebounders. Oddly enough, the player this strategy would work best with is Eric Williams. But I don't see him starting anytime soon :drunk

[T Park]

Oddly enough, the player this strategy would work best with is Eric Williams. But I don't see him starting anytime soon

Don't know why not.

After he gets into shape, go ahead and put him in there.

Hes long, rebounds, defends, and seems to have his shot coming around.

Don't know why it wouldn't work.

[Solid D]

Cousey never started.

S***, does this really come up every year :lol

Cousy started.

[timvp]

Cousy started.

By Bob Cousy, I think T Park meant John Havlicek.

:hat

[T Park]

sorry got Cousey and Havilcek confused.

The memory gets fuzzy pre 75...

[Solid D]

No problem, although Havlicek did start during the back half of his career.

[milkyway21]

it should be obvious to anyone who has watched the spurs the last 4 years that the team is much more dangerous and deadly with manu coming off the bench. there is a dominace to that substitution unlike like any other, harkening back to the days of mchale. when he is subbed into the game, it's a tidal wave of energy and offense. i don't know why they won't make this move permanent. some players are bench players and manu fits that role to a tee. this is not a knock on the man, just an observation of his talents. like the old adage goes, it's not who starts the game, but who finishes.

i don't think Manu is 100% okay at all. Lower back injuries take longer to heal. He's just eager to go back and play, you can see his eyes while watching from the bench before playing against the Warriors. He can't stay long sitting & just watching from the sides:D

They are about to go to Lala Land w/ 1 B2B. I hope he can sustain his stamina & strength. He shld play in limited minutes or must come from the bench. It's December and the Spurs are the BEST team during this time.

[Emanuel20]

when ginobili comes off the bench, it DOES hurt his confidence...and he attacks the basket right away because he wants to prove that he should start.....i mean there was an article where Oberto said that he really worked hard so he would start this season and oberto said that manu told him to practice a lot and have patience and Pop will start him...Well Manu has proven himself to Pop and when Finley come to SA...pop told him that the starting position is taken...

I do agree that when tony and tim are on the floor there is little shots manu could take...
Hey y'll may be pop can bench tony .....and play manu the first 5 minutes and then put tony may be he has some kind of Energy he can bring.

But either way, gino is making $52 million so I don't think Pop will bench him....not after 2005 playoffs...

[Kermit]

$52 million for this season? damn.

i think you meant $8,250,000. pop sit that much and not feel bad about it. hell, mike finley is making $19,000,000 this year. think pop thought twice about bringing him off the bench as it benefited the team?

if it hurts his confidence to come off the bench, then he's a pussy.

[Emanuel20]

$52 million for this season? damn.

i think you meant $8,250,000. pop sit that much and not feel bad about it. hell, mike finley is making $19,000,000 this year. think pop thought twice about bringing him off the bench as it benefited the team?

if it hurts his confidence to come off the bench, then he's a pussy.

well, think about it, gino has 2 rings, gold medal blah blah blah.....some europian stuff also....he is 29 (the years when he can play 27-30 minutes) the years when he can be effective as a starter and then when he is 32-....then he can off the bench....of course it's going to hurt his confidence...he is a human being
(don't you think that tony's confidece will be hurt if he is benched or whoever)

[easjer]

I think a real professional shouldn't get caught up in who starts the game. It should come down to who is getting the crunch time minutes. If Manu is playing better off the bench, then that should be taken into consideration in the lineups. Right now it's happening because of injury. If the ego starts getting in the way, that's when I've got an issue with things.

Hopefully, all the decisions will be based solely on what is best for the team.

[Phenomanul]

Coming off the bench should not be seen as a demotion as long as it helps the team, and as long as Manu is there when it matters most... in 4th quarter crunch time.

He will still see the same amount of minutes....

Gee people... this isn't soccer. On a loaded team like the Spurs, being the sixth man does not mean that Manu <<< whomever the starting two guard happens to be. He is the Man. Which means that when Manu subs in - he immediately becomes the focal point of offense; whereas when he starts alongside Tony and Duncan they are the focal points of offense. It really diminishes our effectiveness when our three main offensive weapons are all on the floor at the same time with the limited number of shots that our system produces.

Granted if Pop ever changed the style to an up and down "small ball" style of play where the offense would generate about 10-15 more shots per game then and only then does a maximation of the overlapping minutes of the team's best offensive combination make sense. Otherwise the offensive focus needs to be staggered by subbing in Ginobili.

This should boost his confidence, not hurt it.

[diego]

Im a manu homer and i prefer he comes off the bench. mostly because it allows him more time with the ball. of course, to finish games its best to have the big 3 out there together.

[Cherry]

well, think about it, gino has 2 rings, gold medal blah blah blah.....some europian stuff also....he is 29 (the years when he can play 27-30 minutes) the years when he can be effective as a starter and then when he is 32-....then he can off the bench....of course it's going to hurt his confidence...he is a human being
(don't you think that tony's confidece will be hurt if he is benched or whoever)

Who told you that? :huh
Manu´s professional too. He will be hurt if he can´t help his teamates.
anyway, Manu will be starter again but he can be effective off the bench.

[VaSpursFan]

i say leave manu on the bench. pop's rotations have been outstanding and very successful for the past 2 games. if it ain't broke don't fix it. plus this allows one of the big 3 to be scorers to be on the floor for the entire 48 minutes. and, dare i say it, manu is a better facilitator of the offense than either of tony's backup's.

by the way that crossover on hermann and layup over Omeka was just sick :downspin: :clap :hungry: :elephant

[nkdlunch]

why waste the time on this? Manu will obviously be starting soon.

[AFBlue]

It's a good idea for many of the reasons already stated.

ESPN showed a stat line last night for Ben Gordon. He's averaging a couple more minutes a game coming off the bench, with more points and a higher FG %. Some players are just better in certain roles, and I think Manu is one of those 6th Man spark-type players.

Having said that, it won't happen, unless it's a temporary situation (i.e. Playoffs)

[2centsworth]

title of the thread should read when Manu plays spurs win. in the past i was never for him coming of the bench because the strategy only worked a few times and failed most others. However, this year playing him limited minutes seems reasonable, say 15-20 minutes night.

[MoSpur]

I think it has to do with "touches." Manu is more effective it seems like off the bench because he becomes the focal point on offense. When he is in the w/Tim and Tony, he doesn't get as many shots for him to be really effective. When he starts, the Spurs run 4 down and that ends up with Tim taking the shot or him passing out when opposing teams double team. This prevents Manu from taking to the basket because the paint area is clogged up.

Manu off the bench opens up that paint area because Tim's not in there and opposing teams aren't double teaming. I think a second unit w/Manu, Elson, Barry, Udrih, and Horry is great. You can even have Finley in there instead of Barry.

[wildbill2u]

Cousey never started.... :lol
Where did you come up with that?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I think its a good idea. Manu doesn't mind coming off the bench, and anybody who claims he does, does so because of emotion rather than logic. Not only would the Spurs benefit from the added energy off the bench, but as many have already stated, Manu would be the focus of the offense this way.

It amazes me how people still haven't gotten over the whole "bench = demotion" crap after all that has happened between 2004-2005 playoffs and now.

[wildbill2u]

sorry got Cousey and Havilcek confused.

The memory gets fuzzy pre 75...
Wrong again. Havilicek didn't start in his first few years in the league and was the 6th man. But after the retirement of some guard (Sam Jones comes to mind for some reason) Havilicek moved into the starting lineup

[wildbill2u]

I hear good arguments from both sides: He should start; He should come off the bench.

How about this: Play that fool all 48 minutes or until he drops. Ride the strong horse.

[ChumpDumper]

He would drop in a week.

[Mr. Body]

Manu against another team's bench is a terror. It would put a lot of pressure on their squad. This also alleviates Parker's tendency to dominate the ball, which he can go ahead and do, with Finley more of a spot shooter.

First line (hockey style): establish Duncan and Parker.

Second line: bring in Barry, Udrih, Horry and Ginobili, get ball working around.

It puts a slasher into each unit.

[2centsworth]

I think its a good idea. Manu doesn't mind coming off the bench, and anybody who claims he does, does so because of emotion rather than logic. Not only would the Spurs benefit from the added energy off the bench, but as many have already stated, Manu would be the focus of the offense this way.

It amazes me how people still haven't gotten over the whole "bench = demotion" crap after all that has happened between 2004-2005 playoffs and now.
'05 Manu was a starter in the playoffs and ended as a starter. Him coming off the bench worked maybe twice. Two other times it was a disaster.

However, this year I'm all for it.

[vanvannen]

How about bringing Tony off the bench? He would be a good energizer and we could gave a strong scorer/slasher that can create his own shot. And we would have Manu playing with Beno as some posters suggested.

[MoSpur]

How about bringing Tony off the bench? He would be a good energizer and we could gave a strong scorer/slasher that can create his own shot. And we would have Manu playing with Beno as some posters suggested.

Tony isn't anything w/out Tim in the lineup.

[Solid D]

Tony isn't anything w/out Tim in the lineup.

Whoa. I disagree with that one big time. Remember how Tony stepped up last year when Timmy sprained his ankle in Detroit? Remember those 2 OT b2b wins last season? (edit) Actually 2 seasons ago.

[Nikos]

It would be nice if the team still had a Hedo/SJax type of SF. Hedo was a very good rebounder -- that season the Spurs were an elite rebounding team.

I don't really know if it matters much if Manu comes off the bench or not. His confidence is usually pretty high in both situations. Not sure it would make a huge difference, unless they could replace him with a good SF who can rebound. Barry and Finley don't exactly fit the bill.

Speaking of rebounding Manu has been great so far this season in that regard. Could be a little flukish though.

[Borosai]

I like Manu off the bench because, as others have said, he would play against the other team's bench to start off, which works in favor of the Spurs. Of course, he would play his 25-35 mins a game as usual, and would definitely be in at the end. The biggest advantage would be that the Spurs wouldn't fall behind in the first half like they have been doing recently. A spark off the bench that the other team has to worry about, and that can help eliminate a deficit or extend a lead.

[ShoogarBear]

Borosai, give us a break. Dump either the sig or the avatar. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

'05 Manu was a starter in the playoffs and ended as a starter. Him coming off the bench worked maybe twice. Two other times it was a disaster.

However, this year I'm all for it.We've seen Manu at the 05 level for maybe 3 collective quaters since 05. Its safe to say things are different now.

[MannyIsGod]

How about bringing Tony off the bench? He would be a good energizer and we could gave a strong scorer/slasher that can create his own shot. And we would have Manu playing with Beno as some posters suggested.Tony can safely handle playing 40 minute. Manu can not.

[Kori Ellis]

I think its a good idea. Manu doesn't mind coming off the bench, and anybody who claims he does, does so because of emotion rather than logic. Not only would the Spurs benefit from the added energy off the bench, but as many have already stated, Manu would be the focus of the offense this way.

It amazes me how people still haven't gotten over the whole "bench = demotion" crap after all that has happened between 2004-2005 playoffs and now.

Last time he was coming off the bench he said he didn't like it but that he would deal with it and that it wasn't his decision.

So what makes you so sure he doesn't mind. :lol

[ShoogarBear]

He would drop in a week.A week? Try two games.

[MannyIsGod]

well, think about it, gino has 2 rings, gold medal blah blah blah.....some europian stuff also....he is 29 (the years when he can play 27-30 minutes) the years when he can be effective as a starter and then when he is 32-....then he can off the bench....of course it's going to hurt his confidence...he is a human being
(don't you think that tony's confidece will be hurt if he is benched or whoever)Here's the thing. An Average 29 year old starter should be playing more like 35-40 minutes on any given night.

[Nikos]

To be fair TP or Duncan are not playing close to 40 minutes. Actually neither of them is playing 35 minutes.

[Kori Ellis]

To be fair TP or Duncan are not playing close to 40 minutes. Actually neither of them is playing 35 minutes.

True, but likely TP/Duncan/Bowen will end up averaging 34-35 mpg, while Manu averages 27-28. I think that was Manny's point. That Ginobili never averages starter type minutes.

[2centsworth]

We've seen Manu at the 05 level for maybe 3 collective quaters since 05. Its safe to say things are different now.


you're exagerating. last year he willed the '05 level through injuries when the spurs absolutely had to have it.

This year is too early, but him coming off the bench will save him come playoff time.

[MannyIsGod]

I just don't see what advantages there are to the team to have him starting. He doesn't play a large amount of minutes so its not like we need him in there for the first 5-7 minutes of a game. He changes the game far more when he comes off of the bench, he plays the same amount of minutes against lesser competition and lesser defense, and he works with the 2nd unit much more efficiently because they all pass well and he's the center of the offense. He finishes out the games, so he's in there at the most crucial point.

Now, give me the advantages to having him as a starter?

[2centsworth]

Now, give me the advantages to having him as a starter?.

he's the leader of the team and as he goes so does the team.

[MannyIsGod]

you're exagerating. last year he willed the '05 level through injuries when the spurs absolutely had to have it.

This year is too early, but him coming off the bench will save him come playoff time.True, it is an exageration, but the fact is that Manu did not play at the same level last year that he did in 05. If anyone thinks that he did, they are either underrating his 05 year or overrating his 06 year. Even this past summer he didn't have his best WC. The man has mentoined that he's trying to change his game and that he's lost a bit of confidence.

I LOVE Manu. I'm not knocking him. I just think he has physical limitations which do not go well with his wreckless abandon and because of that we should try to reserve him as much as possible.

[ShoogarBear]

The leader?

Gee, guess Duncan should go to the bench then.

[2centsworth]

The leader?

Gee, guess Duncan should go to the bench then.
you're overly dramatic. Down the stretch of the biggest games the guy who has the ball and the offense starts through is Manu. There is a reason for that.

[Borosai]

Borosai, give us a break. Dump either the sig or the avatar. :lol

Oh snap! I've been called out on my man-ass fetish! :dramaquee

As soon as I install gimp, I will work some magic. :spin

[smeagol]

Do whatever works.

[MannyIsGod]

you're overly dramatic. Down the stretch of the biggest games the guy who has the ball and the offense starts through is Manu. There is a reason for that.So it really doesn't matter if he starts then?

[MannyIsGod]

.

he's the leader of the team and as he goes so does the team.And this changes if he doesn't start? On the contrary I think Manu taking a bench role would be showing a lot of leadership.

[ShoogarBear]

you're overly dramatic. Come again?


he's the leader of the team and as he goes so does the team.

[smeagol]

I would not mind seeing Manu off the bench and playing 28-30 minutes for a couple more games.

[ShoogarBear]

He's going to be playing 28-30 minutes a game all season whether he starts or comes off the bench.

[gilmor]

I think people need to NOT think that if you are not a starter, then you are lesser of a player. Starter or Bench are equally important. Manu has always played better off the bench and this DOES NOT implicate that he is lesser of a player than Parker. In fact, I think Manu has far more significant impact in a game than Parker. But then, it is probably better if he can start on the bench.

[Phenomanul]

It all goes back to the fact that Manu's most loyal supporters will usually hail from Argentina, and in Argentina the ruling sport is soccer... and in soccer the bench role is usually reserved for less talented players...

The disconnect is that they (those taking exception to the notion of Manu coming off the bench) don't realize that the concept is not translative.

Granted this is not meant to deride Argentineans... I'm just writing this to show that perhaps this is where they are coming from.

[InAmerica]

I really don’t care, if Manu keeps playing this way and gets in good shape for the playoffs it’s all good in the hood.

[z0sa]

Manu off the bench is my vote - but none of our votes matter :lol

[2centsworth]

And this changes if he doesn't start? On the contrary I think Manu taking a bench role would be showing a lot of leadership.
you just ask for a reason in support of him starting. Early momentum and confidence is very important. Have you ever noticed how people play much better when they have early game success. Getting off to the right start is important.

However, I'm in favor of Manu going to the bench and playing limited minutes because the Spurs are a more veteran team.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

The leader?

Gee, guess Duncan should go to the bench then.
There can be more than one leader :lol

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I don't know, whatever works best for the Spurs. I don't really care as long as Manu gets enough playing time, although two games shouldn't be a glaring indicator. If Finley is stinking it up, then put Manu back in the starting role. Before he got that back contusion, we were winning games WITH Manu starting too, you know.

[v2freak]

Before that contusion...

[carib]

If Manu had to play off the bench for the rest of the year and next year, he would always win the six man award, there is no better six man in the NBA.

[carib]

He would be the best six man in the NBA !

[Nikos]

I just don't see what advantages there are to the team to have him starting. He doesn't play a large amount of minutes so its not like we need him in there for the first 5-7 minutes of a game. He changes the game far more when he comes off of the bench, he plays the same amount of minutes against lesser competition and lesser defense, and he works with the 2nd unit much more efficiently because they all pass well and he's the center of the offense. He finishes out the games, so he's in there at the most crucial point.

Now, give me the advantages to having him as a starter?

Advantages are when he finds his groove the team will start games stronger on average. Having your three best offensive players on the floor can only help, not hurt. It sounds like a fresh idea -- Manu coming off the bench and all, but is it really any different then just saying "Manu your going play 3-4 minutes less than your usual 30?".

To me it doesn't really make a difference where he plays. I don't think it helps or hurts very much. Maybe the label of a bench player would annoy Manu a little bit -- but I doubt it will rattle his game nor do wonders for it. The guy when he is playing well is a very good player who is prone to having some bad games where he appears lethargic (namely back to backs). Making him a bench player isn't going to make the team better or worse.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I doubt Manu is interested in that award. Where's the glory in torching bench players, when Manu's proven to be starter material?

It's like celebrating being overqualified.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Before that contusion...
That kind of injury just takes a couple weeks. It just hurts and hampers you for a bit. He'll be fine when he gets over it.
.

[ducks]

I think he should like being the 6 man
why he would be the go to guy with the other subs
play 30 minuts a game
help beno with the bringing the ball up
it would actually be a promation not demotion

[carib]

will Manu start against LA

[TMTTRIO]

They have Finley in the starting lineup so I would say no

[LaMarcus Bryant]

What I dont understand is why Pop can't make an educated decision of whether or not manu will start based on our opponent's lineup and past performances against them.

Its clear sometimes he is best off the bench but also clear that sometimes he is best to start the game. Why does it have to be black and white?

[carib]

What I dont understand is why Pop can't make an educated decision of whether or not manu will start based on our opponent's lineup and past performances against them.

Its clear sometimes he is best off the bench but also clear that sometimes he is best to start the game. Why does it have to be black and white?


Do you think it's the front office and the money they are paying Manu

[ShoogarBear]

Moving a player to the bench = castration.

:dramaquee

[MmP]

As long as it doesn't hurts Manu's confidence. His game is based on confidence...

[LaMarcus Bryant]

They should be able to use him both ways, i've seen him destroy teams as a starter like phoenix and destroy teams as a bench player

This is why the 2003 spurs team was probably the best ever imo....we had a tall lanky sg who could be motivated to rebound on a given night, a center who was a natural rebounder, and manu coming off the freakin bench

it was 3lit3

[carib]

Its clear when Manu comes of the bench the team flow is better, just look at the Clippers game, and he still gets his minutes. It also looks like Michael Finley plays better when he starts, and Manu comes of the bench.

[beirmeistr]

I for one am glad that Manu was a starter in the NBA finals in 2005. It's always a good idea to use your best players at the start of the game so you don't fall behind. I also like Pop's idea earlier this season of starting Ginobili, resting him after about 5 minutes, and then reinserting him in the game during the period when Beno, Barry, Horry, and Elson were on the floor. This is perhaps the most diplomatic way to go because you retain him as the starter but you also get to use him with Barry, Beno, and Horry.

[carib]

Manu is a beast off the bench, I am going to ride with this one.

This is the formula that works

[Shaolin-Style]

Best 6th man I'm convinced. It's a great strategy.

[dimsah]

This team is looking so much better with Manu off the bench.
3 games back, 3 blowouts.

[timvp]

But Manu off the bench is disrespect :madrun

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Heh heh he's looking super-efficient though 22 Points in 20 Minutes? The announcers said the moment he came in the 5 minute mark, the game just went in favor of the Spurs.

I think Pop dangling Playing Time in front of Ginobili is making him work harder though. Holding over the day-to-day thing.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Ginobili coming off the bench would be turn him into the biggest bench weapon in the league. I've long been for the move.

Manu coming off the bench makes the Spurs deadly for 48 minutes a night.

thank you!

few yrs back when he was coming off the bench most of the season his performance was INSANE!
and he doesn't have this ego liek he "needs" to be starting.
Manu comes off the bench fresh and raises the level of play for the whole team.

[ducks]

no shit

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

What I dont understand is why Pop can't make an educated decision of whether or not manu will start based on our opponent's lineup and past performances against them.

Its clear sometimes he is best off the bench but also clear that sometimes he is best to start the game. Why does it have to be black and white?
Yeah, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, unless we've been blowing out teams for the next two weeks (not to mention the last two games before the Clips were against not-so-great teams. and Clips apparently stunk it up tonight) then I say keep him there.

I doubt that'll happen though, the idea that you start your best players in general should be implemented in the long run. I think Manu's effectiveness is independent of the bench or starting role. It has a lot more to do with rotations, offensive ball movement, than Manu being a great sixth man, blah blah.

Weren't the Manu fans saying last month how Manu works great with Tim and Oberto? And helps take the defensive load off Bowen? Now the pendulum shifts towards "Manu works well with Barry and Beno!"
Manu just works great with the Spurs' squads in general.

[phyzik]

Manu needs to stay the 6th man, you cannot refute the past 3 games with him coming off the bench, I dont care what anyone says... And I dont think its degrading in any fassion, Hell, Manu is getting better numbers in the past 3 games since the begining of the season.

If I was in the NBA doing that well off the bench I would refuse to start. Its all about the team.

[2centsworth]

Manu needs to stay the 6th man, you cannot refute the past 3 games with him coming off the bench, I dont care what anyone says... And I dont think its degrading in any fassion, Hell, Manu is getting better numbers in the past 3 games since the begining of the season.

If I was in the NBA doing that well off the bench I would refuse to start. Its all about the team.
maybe the past 3 games is due to him playing and not whether he starts or not.

[T Park]

Ginobili off the bench makes way too much sense.

Although, I like Barry starting more than Finley.

More athleticism, and Finley's legs couldn't handle the starting position I don't think for the rest of the year and playoffs.

[2centsworth]

Ginobili off the bench makes way too much sense.

Although, I like Barry starting more than Finley.

More athleticism, and Finley's legs couldn't handle the starting position I don't think for the rest of the year and playoffs.
what's starting to be painfully obvious is that Manu and Parker are having problems. Both like to dominate the ball.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

maybe the past 3 games is due to him playing and not whether he starts or not.
Yeah, I remember he was getting into a rhythm and churning out a couple efficient games prior to the injury, I think he had a game where he hit 9 of 12,14 shots or something? It was some time around his crazy Blazers quarter where he showed signs that he was getting it going.

[Kori Ellis]

what's starting to be painfully obvious is that Manu and Parker are having problems. Both like to dominate the ball.

How did you deduce they are having problems? :lol

[~Sweetmelody~]

what's starting to be painfully obvious is that Manu and Parker are having problems. Both like to dominate the ball.

Problems?!? Okay, where did that come from?

[duncan2k5]

i wont say that manu and tony have problems, but it IS a problem. they have similar playing styles. its like starting marbury and francis. their styles dont compliment each other. yes...we win with manu starting because we are a great team...but with him coming off the bench...we BLOW out teams so far...especially the cats who beat us before, and the clips who usually play us close. plus remember the 0 playoffs? the nuggs beat us game 1. then pop made the switch for the rest of the series and they won no more. in the next series same thing with manu coming off the bench and torching. yes, we beat detroit with manu starting, but we wont have had to go 7 games with him coming off the bench. manu can play manu style when he isnt sharing the court with tony...and imo he is a better decision maker than tony is. starting manu only hampers him effectiveness.

we need to stop worrying about people's feelings being hurt, and start worrying about what is best for the team. i personally feel as if this is best for the team, and we NEED to win this season.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

It all goes back to the fact that Manu's most loyal supporters will usually hail from Argentina, and in Argentina the ruling sport is soccer... and in soccer the bench role is usually reserved for less talented players...

The disconnect is that they (those taking exception to the notion of Manu coming off the bench) don't realize that the concept is not translative.

Granted this is not meant to deride Argentineans... I'm just writing this to show that perhaps this is where they are coming from.that perhaps would make sense except that most Argies in this thread have directly or indirectly stated that Manu coming of the bench is not a bad idea. So perhaps you might want to reasses that theory.

[Emanuel20]

how about they put tony on the bench and start manu?
:))))))))))

[MaNuMaNiAc]

how about they put tony on the bench and start manu?
:))))))))))joke... right?

[smeagol]

If Manu plays the way he did yesterday against the Clips, leave his ass on the bench and play him 30 minutes including the 4th Qs of close games.

[pjjrfan]

Manu is not the same player he was before the tailbone contusion. Since he came back he has come back with a vengeance. I think before that injury he was playing with a "I want to stay in one piece for the playoffs" and was holding back or just couldn't get that extra burst of energy that made him so dangerous his first 3 years in the league. Before the bump Manu played one good game and then had a so so couple of games. Since he came on against the Warriors it's been a take no prisoners kind of mentality, hi-lighted by last nights play in the 4th where Manu was playing like if the Spurs were down by 30 instead of up by 30. That's the Manu we know and love.

I don't think it has anything to do with if he's playing off the bench or as a starter, he hopefully has gotten something off his neck and starting to be his old self. It's obvious that he has helped the team off the bench and if he stays there will continue to do so, but even if he starts I just see him playing the same kind of game, all out.

[Horry For 3!]

Ever since Manu has came back and has been comin off the bench, the Spurs have been blowing people out easily.

[carib]

What would be the reaction if the next game Manu starts and the Spurs loss.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

What would be the reaction if the next game Manu starts and the Spurs loss.are you serious? why would there need to be a reaction? there could be a ton of reasons why the Spurs could lose, and on top of that if you react because of one game, I don't know what to tell you buddy

[bdictjames]

The big 3 starting is hard, because there are already plenty of offensive options, and Manu clearly isn't going to be the first option. Notice that Pop doesn't play the big 3 now, he sits one of them while two play.

[2centsworth]

How did you deduce they are having problems? :lol
My statement was "starting" to have problems.

Watch the last 4 minutes of the half and 3 or 4 times Tony would control the ball and Manu would call for it at the top of the key to do what Manu does, create and distribute. Tony called him off and I could sense a little frustration in Manu. Then the last 37 seconds of the half Tony called for the ball twice and Manu waive him off and threw two cheap shots. Tony made it obvious he didn't like it.

I didn't watch much more of the second half except for a couple of more times when Tony waive Manu off.

For the record, Tony is the PG and Manu needs to get out of the way and stop calling for the ball. A good PG will find you without you having to call for the ball.

Not saying it's LA Laker drama,but more of a basketball problem that needs to be worked out.

Btw, In today's sports page quote after quote sounded like asking Tony to pass more and be more of a playmaker. "it's the next step in Tony's progression" said Brent Barry. On the court sometimes Manu thinks he should have the ball to create because he doesn't trust Tony will.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

My statement was "starting" to have problems.

Watch the last 4 minutes of the half and 3 or 4 times Tony would control the ball and Manu would call for it at the top of the key to do what Manu does, create and distribute. Tony called him off and I could sense a little frustration in Manu. Then the last 37 seconds of the half Tony called for the ball twice and Manu waive him off and threw two cheap shots. Tony made it obvious he didn't like it.

I didn't watch much more of the second half except for a couple of more times when Tony waive Manu off.

For the record, Tony is the PG and Manu needs to get out of the way and stop calling for the ball. A good PG will find you without you having to call for the ball.

Not saying it's LA Laker drama,but more of a basketball problem that needs to be worked out.

Btw, In today's sports page quote after quote sounded like asking Tony to pass more and be more of a playmaker. "it's the next step in Tony's progression" said Brent Barry. On the court sometimes Manu thinks he should have the ball to create because he doesn't trust Tony will.
what sportspage? where?

[2centsworth]

what sportspage? where?
local sports page, you might find it at www.mysa.com (http://www.mysa.com). It's the article about last nights game.

[Emanuel20]

My statement was "starting" to have problems.

Watch the last 4 minutes of the half and 3 or 4 times Tony would control the ball and Manu would call for it at the top of the key to do what Manu does, create and distribute. Tony called him off and I could sense a little frustration in Manu. Then the last 37 seconds of the half Tony called for the ball twice and Manu waive him off and threw two cheap shots. Tony made it obvious he didn't like it.

I didn't watch much more of the second half except for a couple of more times when Tony waive Manu off.

For the record, Tony is the PG and Manu needs to get out of the way and stop calling for the ball. A good PG will find you without you having to call for the ball.
Not saying it's LA Laker drama,but more of a basketball problem that needs to be worked out.

Btw, In today's sports page quote after quote sounded like asking Tony to pass more and be more of a playmaker. "it's the next step in Tony's progression" said Brent Barry. On the court sometimes Manu thinks he should have the ball to create because he doesn't trust Tony will.


you are only assuming and your conjectures MIGHT not be true!!!!!!

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Are you implying what you said is stated in that article?

I don't see it, but I like what Barry said about Tony's game:

"It's well known that the next step in the next progression for Tony as a point guard is to be a playmaker," Barry said. "The more he steps into that role for us, the more it's going to expand his game and the more it's going to improve us as a ballclub.

I hope Pop takes cue from Tony's own decisive adjustment to pass more, a lot of the big lead that night against the clips was from their inability to predict that Tony would pass out and create instead of performing his usual in score mode.

So you can credit the unpredictable ball movement (coupled with Manu's X-factor unpredictability)being a key to our bigger leads this past week.

So now if Tony looks to make a couple extra passes, instead of doing his usual scoring shtick, he's going to become an even harder threat for the defenses. Just because Pop insists on him scoring a lot doesn't mean we have to agree with it. Of course I don't want Tony to give Nash-like numbers, or expect him to right now, I just think he could try to use a few more plays to create shots for others when he handles the ball just to keep the defenses on their feet.

[2centsworth]

you are only assuming and your conjectures MIGHT not be true!!!!!!
it's only an opinion.

[2centsworth]

Are you implying what you said is stated in that article?

I don't see it, but I like what Barry said about Tony's game:


I hope Pop takes cue from Tony's own decisive adjustment to pass more, a lot of the big lead that night against the clips was from their inability to predict that Tony would pass out and create instead of performing his usual in score mode.

So you can credit the unpredictable ball movement (coupled with Manu's X-factor unpredictability)being a key to our bigger leads this past week.

So now if Tony looks to make a couple extra passes, instead of doing his usual scoring shtick, he's going to become an even harder threat for the defenses. Just because Pop insists on him scoring a lot doesn't mean we have to agree with it. Of course I don't want Tony to give Nash-like numbers, or expect him to right now, I just think he could try to use a few more plays to create shots for others when he handles the ball just to keep the defenses on their feet.

Tony has all the ability in the world to be whatever player he wants. I just want him to give up the play where he dribbles for 20 seconds and shoots a jumper.

[Kori Ellis]

Tony has all the ability in the world to be whatever player he wants. I just want him to give up the play where he dribbles for 20 seconds and shoots a jumper.

:lol This exaggeration needs to die. It's a very extreme rarity that ever happens.

By the way, twice when Manu went up top and called for the ball, Pop had called a different play .. that's why Tony waved him off.

[ducks]

On the court sometimes Manu thinks he should have the ball to create because he doesn't trust Tony will.
Tony has to score because manu is to busy nursing his injuries
manu thinks he is all that now
that is fine
let him come off the bench then he would not get to play with tp and he should be fine
all this talk that manu has no ego is bullshit with a quote like that
tp carried the spurs last year and that has made manu upset
tp is the point guard and if tp does not do what pop wants he would be BENCHED

[ducks]

:lol This exaggeration needs to die. It's a very extreme rarity that ever happens.

By the way, twice when Manu went up top and called for the ball, Pop had called a different play .. that's why Tony waved him off.

yep but that is tp's fault just ask manu and his church

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think either Manu or Tony are upset. They always laugh when fans speculate there is trouble between them, animosity, or problems with who is getting the ball/touches.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

:lol whatever, you really have a knack for psychoanalysis Ducks.

Both of you talking about Tony and Manu friction on the court is a little bit of an exaggeration. Like Kori said, with a little more information on those particular plays from yesterday, these guys are professionals, and they've been playing together for 4 years now. I think it's easy to read into it too much, maybe on court there's a little bit of conflict on a specific play, because they both favor having the ball in their hands, then again, having two slashers and a Tony-Manu penetration is what gave us the complementary game to Tim, they've emerged as one of the best backcourts in the league! So why would there be a problem all of a sudden?
I don't think Manu cares if he doesn't get the ball from Tony, because he DOES, and has many times, I just think he'd rather have Pop call more plays for him in general.

Pop calls the plays for who handles the ball more, Tony being the point guard gets it more because he wants him to join Manu and Tim, hence giving him green light to do what he wants, encouraging him to shoot more and see him come into his role in decision making. That way come playoff time we'll have a better ability to make adjustments around the big three.

[ducks]

I still think manu off the bench to help beno out and let him still play his 30 minutes is what is best for the team

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I still think manu off the bench to help beno out and let him still play his 30 minutes is what is best for the team

If it continues to get wider margins of victory as a result, or rather, just more Spurs control then I'd prefer it too.

We'll just have to see what Pop does with that approach.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I don't think either Manu or Tony are upset. They always laugh when fans speculate there is trouble between them, animosity, or problems with who is getting the ball/touches.
Pop's a good scriptwriter.

[ducks]

clippers are a team that took the suns to 7 games last year in the playoffs and they killed them with manu off the bench

[TMTTRIO]

I really don't care if he starts or come off the bench he's going to play the same no matter what. Interesting what he says here. I know he's one of the best team players on our team but it sounds like he really kind of wants to start.


Notable: When asked whether he planned to start Ginobili as soon as he returns to full health, Popovich said he didn't know. Said Ginobili: "In every season, for a little bit of time, I was on the bench. I don't know if that's this time or not. We'll see. I would like to play a little bit more because I'm feeling good. But I understand his position and I'm just coming from an injury, so it's not a big deal."

[ducks]

ofcourse he does
he has a big ego but the church of manu would say not

[manu]

i saw in nbatv that he's starting tomorrow against the lakers

[T Park]

Ginobili needs to swallow the pride, let Brent Barry start, and let this team flourish with him being a great 6th man.


Come on Manu, go with it!!!!!!!!!!

[Kori Ellis]

Ginobili needs to swallow the pride, let Brent Barry start, and let this team flourish with him being a great 6th man.


Come on Manu, go with it!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think Manu is protesting it or anything. He has always said he'll do whatever is best for the team. But it's not up to him to "let" Barry start. It's all up to the coaching staff.

[T Park]

But it's not up to him to "let" Barry start. It's all up to the coaching staff.

I think Manu's reluctance to come off the bench all year, is a factor.

Hes putting on a good face, but for some reason, starting is a big friggen deal to him.

[Texas_Ranger]

Manu from bench > Manu starter

[carina_gino20]

has he actually said he doesn't like coming off the bench? from his quotes, he only wants to have more minutes, coming from the bench or starting

[JPB]

Even if Manu hasn't an oversized ego, I thing it's more "normal" for him to start.

it's just a question of respect and naturel order of things. When you're at a certain point in you career where you've accomplished great things and that you're still in your prime, that's something that has to be respected.

Starting symbolises that and establishes the hierarchy in a team. You're in the best five of the team, you're beginning the game, you're receiving the crowd encouragement.

U can't just put a guy that represents a lot of thing for your team, at this level of his career, on the bench. That is not natural, both sportingly and humanly speaking, which are two things that has equal importance in the game, maybe even more in SA.

[Kori Ellis]

has he actually said he doesn't like coming off the bench? from his quotes, he only wants to have more minutes, coming from the bench or starting

Last year he said, he didn't like it but that he knows Pop is doing what is best for the team.

[WalterBenitez]

Does Argentina have any historical claim to the Bahamas?

only about beautiful beaches.

[WalterBenitez]

As long as he gets 30 minutes at the end of the day, I don't really care if he starts or not. But the less he plays with Tony, the better it seems.

Intl side effect is coming .... but I do agree :dramaquee

[boutons_]

Manu says all the right things, but obviously he wants to start, he wants more minutes, and deserves to start.

Everybody, esp the players, knows starting is reserved for the 5 best players. Even if Manu got the same number of minutes. Pop is extremely rigid with his starting line-ups throughout the season, meaning Pop himself considers his decision on starters to be fairly sacred and breaking into that decision is very difficult.

Nobody wants an needs-explanation asterisk on his career, like "He was very good, actually good enough to start, but he was benched because he was better as 6th man"

And if the Spurs so desparately need Manu's spark off the bench, that says tons about the non-sparks who start and can't "get it done".

If the Spurs don't have any/enough spark/talent off the bench when Manu starts, why penalize Manu for that?

If Michael can't hit shit as a starter or isn't instant offense off the bench, why penalize Manu for that?

If it's "all about the team", then how many more games will the Spurs win because Manu doesn't start?

Or, How many more games will the Spurs lose because Manu starts?

In the past 3 seasons, how many games have the Spurs won or lost because of Manu was much less a queston of whether he was starting or benched, but much more because he was healthy or not, just like right now.

The Spurs are 15 -5 even after a pretty shitty November. Manu didn't play in the losses against GSW and Utah, and shot for shit in the loss vs Charlotte.

How much better than 15 -5 if Manu didn't start?

How much better if Manu actually played?

When the Spurs have bad game, losing to a lottery team, it's on ALL the Spurs, not just Manu starting or not.

[WalterBenitez]

do you also accuse champagne of being apple cider?

That would be a crime and affect my sense of drunk :jekka

I assume that some of us (ARG's pple) find this idea extremelly direspectful (if this word exists :D), but knowing Manu's way of thinking ... probably he doesn't care about starting or not, but boy leave him on the court at the end ...

I was missing this 2006-2007 version of this classic discussion :drunk , don't forget to anounce when the Desperate trade season starts ...:D

[WalterBenitez]

Moving a player to the bench = castration.
:dramaquee ooops

[WalterBenitez]

how about they put tony on the bench and start manu?
:)))))))))) The war is coming soon :dramaquee leave Tony away of this discussion :cooldevil

[smeagol]

Manu has a big ego but the church of manu would say not
You are hilarious and pathetic at the same time

[smeagol]

The funny thing is we went through this discussion many times. Furthermore, Pop has tried playing Manu off the bench many times.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Or people forget Denver/Seattle in 2005.

I remember people who now want Manu desperately coming off the bench, wanting Manu desperately to start.

I say, play him off the bench until it stops working.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I think Manu's reluctance to come off the bench all year, is a factor.

Hes putting on a good face, but for some reason, starting is a big friggen deal to him.
I don't really get that kind of personality from Manu, he doesn't seem to walk on egg-shells with his words or give the same ol' political answers. He seems pretty straightforward.

I don't have him pegged as one of those pretense guys who mind their words. Same goes for Timmy.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

You are hilarious and pathetic at the same time
I know, Duck likes to keep his mouth shut, but when opportunity strikes his Anti-Manu stance pours out tenfold. :lol

usually in crazy sentences like that.

Dude has a fucked up sense of perspective when it comes to the Tony vs. Manu drama.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

On the court sometimes Manu thinks he should have the ball to create because he doesn't trust Tony will.
Tony has to score because manu is to busy nursing his injuries
manu thinks he is all that now
that is fine
let him come off the bench then he would not get to play with tp and he should be fine
all this talk that manu has no ego is bullshit with a quote like that
tp carried the spurs last year and that has made manu upset
tp is the point guard and if tp does not do what pop wants he would be BENCHED
ofcourse he does
he has a big ego but the church of manu would say not aah... there's the idiot we know and love. Usually ducks like to sugar coat his manu bashing with the occasional "I love Manu but..." bullshit, but this... this is the real ducks. Dude is still fucking stuck on the whole Manu vs. Tony crap from 2004. Grow the fuck up!

I'm with smeagol here, play what works! Manu coming off the bench right now seems to be paying up, so keep playing him from the bench until it becomes necesary for him to start. Pop knows what he's doing, we wouldn't be winning so much if he didn't.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

all this talk that manu has no ego is bullshit with a quote like that
I wonder how long it will take his sorry ass to realize that quote was not from Manu, but rather 2centsworth opinion... hmm...

[spurschick]

If the biggest problem the Spurs face is whether or not Manu should come off the bench, we should start moving the banners over to make room for the next one.

[picnroll]

Apparently some fans think the Spurs are a soap opera rather than a basketball team.

[boutons_]

"a soap opera"

Sometimes Manu sounds like psycho-babble girly-man "artista Latino" talking about his super-fragile, reticent confidence, how delicately he must seduce it, trying to get it, muse-like, to inspire him to playing well. :lol

I've been watching a lot of NBA TV on the occasion of the Larry Bird 50th bday celebration. Larry wasn't no sensitive girly-man.

You really want soap? Bring in SJax or The Answer, then we'll have 24x7 soap. :lol

[ATX Spur]

"a soap opera"

Sometimes Manu sounds like psycho-babble girly-man "artista Latino" talking about his super-fragile, reticent confidence, how delicately he must seduce it, trying to get it, muse-like, to inspire him to playing well. :lol

I've been watching a lot of NBA TV on the occasion of the Larry Bird 50th bday celebration. Larry wasn't no sensitive girly-man.

You really want soap? Bring in SJax or The Answer, then we'll have 24x7 soap. :lol

:dramaquee

Congrats, this is the dumbest you've ever sounded.

[Emanuel20]

is manu starting today or not?

[2centsworth]

:lol This exaggeration needs to die. It's a very extreme rarity that ever happens.

By the way, twice when Manu went up top and called for the ball, Pop had called a different play .. that's why Tony waved him off.
extreme rarity would be 1 every 3 or 4 games, but it happens 2 to 3 times a game. But maybe that's what you mean by extreme rarity:lol . I'll point out what I mean after the next game. I'll define what I mean by 15seconds no one touches the ball except Tony and then he takes a jumper.

[xamila rey]

If the biggest problem the Spurs face is whether or not Manu should come off the bench, we should start moving the banners over to make room for the next one.
well said

[Cherry]

If the biggest problem the Spurs face is whether or not Manu should come off the bench, we should start moving the banners over to make room for the next one.

yeah :toast

[ChumpDumper]

I remember people who now want Manu desperately coming off the bench, wanting Manu desperately to start.I deperately want Manu to stay healthy through the length of his contract. However that may be achieved, I'm fer it.

[Emanuel20]

yeah ok i think the bench theory has dissolved

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah, couldn't be that you already had your mind made up regardless of the facts, could it?

[MannyIsGod]

yeah ok i think the bench theory has dissolvedThe most predictable change following the Laker loss was Manu going back to the starting lineup. Pop does this all the damn time. No matter how well it works the moment they lose a game he moves him back to the starting lineup. Its knee jerk.

[Emanuel20]

Yeah, couldn't be that you already had your mind made up regardless of the facts, could it?
True

[Emanuel20]

The most predictable change following the Laker loss was Manu going back to the starting lineup. Pop does this all the damn time. No matter how well it works the moment they lose a game he moves him back to the starting lineup. Its knee jerk.

Lakers beat us bad......but overall gino seems pretty good off the bench but when he starts he is in the fourth from 6 minute mark......not like when Pop put him in the 3 minute mark during lakers game ...and then tony was just trying to let us know that he is "clutch player"....when we all know and even tony knows he is not...he even did not make his FTs

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Lakers beat us bad......but overall gino seems pretty good off the bench but when he starts he is in the fourth from 6 minute mark......not like when Pop put him in the 3 minute mark during lakers game ...and then tony was just trying to let us know that he is "clutch player"....when we all know and even tony knows he is not...he even did not make his FTs
seriously, you're the Manu church version of ducks, equally idiotic

[smeagol]

seriously, you're the Manu church version of ducks, equally idiotic
:tu

[Emanuel20]

seriously, you're the Manu church version of ducks, equally idiotic

what can i say....i was in argentina for 3 weeks...and i tell you they fill your head with...........MANU

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

seriously, you're the Manu church version of ducks, equally idiotic
Good call, just like Ducks brings up Manu out of the blue in reference to Tony, this guy brings up Tony in reference to Manu.

Can't yous twos, hate on them individually like the rest of the Spurstalk regulars, without pitting them against each other?

That's why I think we all should just focus on Tim, because there's no polarization or accusations of favoring someone over the other, like with Manu and Tony.

We can harp all we want about for his crappy fourth-quarter FT performances, and not be accused of Churchiness because he's above the fray, an even higher deity.

[Emanuel20]

Good call, just like Ducks brings up Manu out of the blue in reference to Tony, this guy brings up Tony in reference to Manu.

Can't yous twos, hate on them individually like the rest of the Spurstalk regulars, without pitting them against each other?

That's why I think we all should just focus on Tim, because there's no polarization or accusations of favoring someone over the other, like with Manu and Tony.

We can harp all we want about for his crappy fourth-quarter FT performances, and not be accused of Churchiness because he's above the fray, an even higher deity.


Fine mark my words Tim is the only one I will talk about.... :sleep

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

extreme rarity would be 1 every 3 or 4 games, but it happens 2 to 3 times a game. But maybe that's what you mean by extreme rarity:lol . I'll point out what I mean after the next game. I'll define what I mean by 15seconds no one touches the ball except Tony and then he takes a jumper.
Heh, they did pretty well feeding each other in the Clippers game last night.

It brought back memories of 2004 and 2005.

Both Tony and Manu either took advantage of an undermanned Clippers team and got in whenever they pleased and both got equal touches. So they can exist when the coach doesn't ride on only one player.

[2centsworth]

Heh, they did pretty well feeding each other in the Clippers game last night.

It brought back memories of 2004 and 2005.

Both Tony and Manu either took advantage of an undermanned Clippers team and got in whenever they pleased and both got equal touches. So they can exist when the coach doesn't ride on only one player.
It was poetic.

[wildbill2u]

The most predictable change following the Laker loss was Manu going back to the starting lineup. Pop does this all the damn time. No matter how well it works the moment they lose a game he moves him back to the starting lineup. Its knee jerk.
Or maybe he just felt Manu's injury comeback had progressed to the point where he could play well against the other team's starters.

Sometimes we forget that the other team starts THEIR best players so your counterpart has to be the best you have to match up with them.

Conversely, when you put a starter against a second team player, he SHOULD be able to deliver.

[2centsworth]

The most predictable change following the Laker loss was Manu going back to the starting lineup. Pop does this all the damn time. No matter how well it works the moment they lose a game he moves him back to the starting lineup. Its knee jerk.
that's not true. He stuck with Manu on the bench in the Seattle series in '05 after the spurs were almost in the tank. He then inserted Manu in the starting lineup and the rest is history. Last year he tried Manu off the bench with Finley starting and it ultimately didn't work.

I've never seen Manu off the bench work for a prolong period except in his rookie year.

[smeagol]

As I said before, use Manu off the bench until it stops working.

Manu had a fine game yesterday starting.

At the end of the day, it does not depend wether Manu starts or comes off the bench, it depends on how Manu is playing that day. He has proven over and over again he can do both things.

[beirmeistr]

Manu says all the right things, but obviously he wants to start, he wants more minutes, and deserves to start.

Everybody, esp the players, knows starting is reserved for the 5 best players. Even if Manu got the same number of minutes. Pop is extremely rigid with his starting line-ups throughout the season, meaning Pop himself considers his decision on starters to be fairly sacred and breaking into that decision is very difficult.

Nobody wants an needs-explanation asterisk on his career, like "He was very good, actually good enough to start, but he was benched because he was better as 6th man"

And if the Spurs so desparately need Manu's spark off the bench, that says tons about the non-sparks who start and can't "get it done".

If the Spurs don't have any/enough spark/talent off the bench when Manu starts, why penalize Manu for that?

If Michael can't hit shit as a starter or isn't instant offense off the bench, why penalize Manu for that?

If it's "all about the team", then how many more games will the Spurs win because Manu doesn't start?

Or, How many more games will the Spurs lose because Manu starts?

In the past 3 seasons, how many games have the Spurs won or lost because of Manu was much less a queston of whether he was starting or benched, but much more because he was healthy or not, just like right now.

The Spurs are 15 -5 even after a pretty shitty November. Manu didn't play in the losses against GSW and Utah, and shot for shit in the loss vs Charlotte.

How much better than 15 -5 if Manu didn't start?

How much better if Manu actually played?

When the Spurs have bad game, losing to a lottery team, it's on ALL the Spurs, not just Manu starting or not.
Good post. The answer to your questions, my friend, is blowing in the wind.

Advice to Manu----protect your ass and try to avoid injuries that can cause you to miss games because it's hell to regain your starting spot

[2centsworth]

Good post.
Boutons has really good basketball takes.

However, he is a freaking nut job.:lol

[smeagol]

Since he came back from his back injury, Manu has been playing with more energy.