Article: Iverson OUT in Philly

[JeremyWariner]

December 8, 2006 -- THE Allen Iverson Period in Philadelphia is rapidly dragging to an undignified conclusion.

According to two agents whose clients play for the 76ers, Iverson went to team president Billy King this past Tuesday and demanded to be traded, something he professed repeatedly over the years he'd never do.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12082006/sports/bad_answer_sports_peter_vecsey.htm

[1Parker1]

Props to A.I. Billy King is an idiot.

[TDMVPDPOY]

id expected webber to be ship first, looks like AI beats him to the door

[DarkReign]

About frickin time.

[DarkReign]

BTW, I enjoy your posts, Jeremy, but for the love of God...

Please downsize your signature.

[NBA Junkie]

Just another Iverson trade rumor that probably won't come to fruition.

[JamStone]

Atlanta would be the best fit probably. Atlanta can take AI's salary without matching because ATL is under the cap. They can give up guys like Tyronn Lue and Marvin Williams and not worry about salary cap restrictions on the trade. Plus, Joe Johnson would figure to be a nice complement because he's a 2-guard who plays somewhat like a point guard. Mike Woodson coached AI in Philadelphia. And, ATL would LOOOOOOOOVE AI. If there's any place that would be realistic considering AI's contract and the type of player he is, I think Atlanta might be the perfect place.

[nkdlunch]

I thought Iverson wanted to go to a better team, why would he go to ATL?

[JeremyWariner]

BTW, I enjoy your posts, Jeremy, but for the love of God...

Please downsize your signature.

Sorry Brotha...

:downspin: My bad, I forget that not everyone is on a widescreen like me :drunk

[2Cleva]

Sorry Brotha...

:downspin: My bad, I forget that not everyone is on a widescreen like me :drunk

Or more likely, no one wants to see such losers on the screen.

GO BUCKS!!!! :lol

[2Cleva]

BTW - It's not just Vescey smoke. From a Denver writer this morning, posted before the Vescey story.


The Answer to Melo's woes is found in Philly
By Mark Kiszla
Denver Post Staff Columnist

Anyone who saw Carmelo Anthony disrobe in disgust after a disturbing home loss, tossing his Nuggets jersey in the stands and removing his basketball trunks in an arena hallway, knows this 22-year-old forward needs some serious help.

What's the answer? Allen Iverson of the Philadelphia 76ers.

Less than 24 hours after Anthony threw a fit, not to mention his uniform, when Denver ignored him on the final offensive possession of a two-point loss at home, the Nuggets caught wind Thursday of a whisper that figures to have phones ringing off the hook in the offices of general managers throughout the NBA.

Iverson is back on the trade block, according to a league source, who said the Nuggets are among the teams that have been contacted to measure interest in the 31-year-old point guard.

Here we go again.

The I-love-you, I-love-you-not relationship between Iverson and the Sixers has hit another rocky patch, as a recent dust-up with Philly coach Maurice Cheeks and A.I.'s notorious dislike for practice made headlines.

Denver seriously flirted with the idea of acquiring Iverson at the trade deadline last season, and continued to express interest as the possibility of dealing A.I. was floated again during the summer, only to be disappointed when Sixers president Billy King lost his appetite for moving the toughest little man in league history.

OK. Let's keep it real, right from the start. Twice already in this calendar year, Denver was unable to convince the Sixers that trading Iverson made sense.

And it might be harder for Denver to put together a knock-their-doors-off package now, especially given the slow return to health of forward Nene, once coveted by Philadelphia but now a source of no small amount of frustration to the Nuggets, antsy to see their $60 million invisible man reappear on the court.

Anthony, however, is a huge Iverson fan, understands the defiant man, and believes in his heart the basketball would be big enough to share by the players currently ranked first and second in league scoring.

"I love playing with A.I.," said Anthony, teammate to Iverson at the 2004 Summer Olympics.

"I'm comfortable with him, because I come from where he came from."

Anthony and Iverson love to score, despise losing, and keep it honest in an era in which NBA superstars often hide behind an image created by TV commercials....

Could the Nuggets get a deal done? Despite Nene and two first-round picks in the 2007 NBA draft, it's questionable if the team has the chips to ante up for the Iverson game, where nobody knows if King would again fold and walk away from the table. But a better question would be: What does Denver have to lose by trying?

http://www.denverpost.com/portlet/article/html/fragments/print_article.jsp?articleId=4800661&siteId=36

[mardigan]

I cant believe how shitty Chris Webber has gotten. I cant remember when a player has fallen off so badly over a one year period, he is done. You think that they would be more willing to trade him West or East?

[2Cleva]

They will deal him to whoever will take him.

[MrChug]

I thought Iverson wanted to go to a better team, why would he go to ATL?

The Hawks ARE a better team than the 6r's, which of course isn't saying much. I believe the fit is pretty great for Iverson too. He could go to another storied franchise that could use his scoring. JJ's an absurdly unselfish player and could be the Pippen to Iverson's Jordan. I think it could work.

[JeremyWariner]

Or more likely, no one wants to see such losers on the screen.

GO BUCKS!!!! :lol

lol...Losers eh? You mean that "losing program" that is atop D1 football for all time wins and winning percentage?

Yeah, that is how I would define LOSERS

[dimsah]

I cant believe how shitty Chris Webber has gotten. I cant remember when a player has fallen off so badly over a one year period, he is done. You think that they would be more willing to trade him West or East?Is it a coincidence that every former all-star that goes to the sixers falls off the face of the earth?

That sounds like every sixer fan I know, which is a lot considering I live near Philly. All I ever hear is that Iverson doesn't have anyone to pass to. Bull shit.
He's going to get his 25-30 shots a game even if Shaq was on his team.

A.I. will never win anything being the #1 option on any team.

[2Cleva]

lol...Losers eh? You mean that "losing program" that is atop D1 football for all time wins and winning percentage?

Yeah, that is how I would define LOSERS

You know all that matters is that last game in November. Since JT came on board its been 3 in a row and 5 out of 6.

You guys probably want to throw a parade now that you won't have to face Mr Heisman again.

[ShoogarBear]

Iverson and . . . George Karl?

:lmao :lmao :lmao

That would peg the entertainment meter.

[AFBlue]

Atlanta would be the best fit probably. Atlanta can take AI's salary without matching because ATL is under the cap. They can give up guys like Tyronn Lue and Marvin Williams and not worry about salary cap restrictions on the trade. Plus, Joe Johnson would figure to be a nice complement because he's a 2-guard who plays somewhat like a point guard. Mike Woodson coached AI in Philadelphia. And, ATL would LOOOOOOOOVE AI. If there's any place that would be realistic considering AI's contract and the type of player he is, I think Atlanta might be the perfect place.

I think Atlanta would be best for AI, but I don't know if AI would be best for Atlanta.

For all their problems, the Hawks don't have an issue with scoring. JJ, J-Child, Lue, Smith, Pachulia are all solid scorers when they want to be. The problem with Atlanta is defense...specifically interior defense. And though AI is a great "thief" in the passing lanes, he's not going to give you anything on the interior.

As you mentioned, the Hawks have plenty of cap space, but most of the reason that is the case is because of their ongoing Ownership battle. No ownership group will make long-term financial commitments if their unsure of whether they'll be there to reap the benefits of those transactions. Hell, they GAVE AWAY their most prized asset, Al Harrington, rather than taking back a long-term contract and a decent player.

I don't think it will be a bad move if the Hawks get AI, but I think they'd be better served to continue developing their core of young players and deciding which players are keepers and which players can be trade chips for bigger (both talent and SIZE) "fish".

Bottom Line: I see the merit in the deal, though I don't totally agree that it would be best for the Hawks, but until the current situation is resolved, I don't see it happening.

[AFBlue]

P.S. Imagine if the Hawks had enough dough in a couple years to offer Hometown product Dwight Howard a Max-Deal. Granted, it would be for less $ and years than Orlando could give in an extension...but he's got the connection and most likely the means to return.

That'd be better than AI right?

[1Parker1]

Is it a coincidence that every former all-star that goes to the sixers falls off the face of the earth?

That sounds like every sixer fan I know, which is a lot considering I live near Philly. All I ever hear is that Iverson doesn't have anyone to pass to. Bull shit.


Umm, how many All-Stars have played in Philly alongside AI?

[AFBlue]

The Hawks ARE a better team than the 6r's, which of course isn't saying much. I believe the fit is pretty great for Iverson too. He could go to another storied franchise that could use his scoring. JJ's an absurdly unselfish player and could be the Pippen to Iverson's Jordan. I think it could work.

Absuredly unselfish is a bit of an overstatement. He often complained in Phoenix about being the third or fourth option, and even listed it as one of the reasons he asked to let the trade to ATL happen.

However, I do think he's a capable distributor and wouldn't mind deffering to AI for the most part.

Overall though, I think he's gotten a taste for being the #1 guy and I think he likes it.

[ShoogarBear]

The problem with AI is that if you want to win with him, you have to build a team specifically around him. I don't see him accepting being a spoke, he has to be the whole hub. His teammates have to be able to stand around and stay out of his way until he decides he wants their help (in many ways not unlike Jordan). Building such a team and having it be successful is not easy, and I imagine it's even tougher to find an idea trade situation for him.

I can't imagine him and Carmelo co-existing very well, for example, unless Carmelo is willing to be option 2. Joe Johnson may be more likely to defer, but what can you do with AI, Johnson, and the bunch of scrubs who would be left after a trade?

[AFBlue]

id expected webber to be ship first, looks like AI beats him to the door

Why expect that when Webber has done nothing to justify his contract and still has a couple years left on it.

I'm certain the Sixers want to unload him MORE than they do Iverson, but who would be willing to take Webber and his overly bloated, unjustified contract....other than Isaiah?

At least Iverson's bloated contract isn't completely unjustified. Though he's 31, he's still putting up 30+ points a game and is a media-starved team's best friend ( I think the saying goes "any press is good press"). If the Sixers are serious about trading him, they'll find more than a few willing suitors.

[baseline bum]

Is it a coincidence that every former all-star that goes to the sixers falls off the face of the earth?

That sounds like every sixer fan I know, which is a lot considering I live near Philly. All I ever hear is that Iverson doesn't have anyone to pass to. Bull shit.
He's going to get his 25-30 shots a game even if Shaq was on his team.

A.I. will never win anything being the #1 option on any team.

You're kidding, right? Who was the second best offensive player on that 2001 team that went to the Finals? Aaron McKie? Great career he's carved post-Iverson.

What All-Stars are you referring to? Glenn Robinson? The guy was done by the time he got traded to Philly, which is why he never got a job back in the NBA after 2005. Jamal Mashburn? Did he even suit up for them? Webber had a great offensive season last year, but can't stay on the floor because he's so slow defensively. That's why his numbers are way down. Iverson hasn't had a good scoring teammate besides a gimpy Webber since Stackhouse in like '98.

[kingsfan]

They couldn't trade him this summer, I wouldn't hold your breath on it happening now. He was almost a Celtic but that deal fell through. I agree Atl. would be a good choice, he already has a house there and likes the area but their management problems make it unlikely. From the articles I've read, there seem to be several problems with Mo, not just AI but I guess we'll see what King does.

[1Parker1]

You're kidding, right? Who was the second best offensive player on that 2001 team that went to the Finals? Aaron McKie? Great career he's carved post-Iverson.

What All-Stars are you referring to? Glenn Robinson? The guy was done by the time he got traded to Philly, which is why he never got a job back in the NBA after 2005. Jamal Mashburn? Did he even suit up for them? Webber had a great offensive season last year, but can't stay on the floor because he's so slow defensively. That's why his numbers are way down. Iverson hasn't had a good scoring teammate besides a gimpy Webber since Stackhouse in like '98.


:lol Exactly. I was thinking you could make a possible argument for Eric Snow, however, Sixers did make it to the finals and AI an MVP award when he was around...

Billy King did a horrible job of getting the right pieces and coaching staff around AI and the Sixers.

[2Cleva]

They couldn't trade him this summer, I wouldn't hold your breath on it happening now. He was almost a Celtic but that deal fell through. I agree Atl. would be a good choice, he already has a house there and likes the area but their management problems make it unlikely. From the articles I've read, there seem to be several problems with Mo, not just AI but I guess we'll see what King does.

They could trade him, they just didn't want to dump him. Denver has been after him hard for a couple of years.

But that was when the team wanted to do it. Now with AI wanting out and not playing as hard, its a done deal he's gone.


According to two NBA GMs, the Sixers are aggressively trying to move Iverson, but other Sixers may be traded as well. Iverson's salary (currently $17.1 million with $19M and $20.8M remaining) won't make it easy to move him and Andre Iguodala or Samuel Dalembert could also be included in a deal. We're hearing from NBCSports.com's Frank Isola that Denver is the early leader for his services, while Chris Webber is also reportedly being shopped by the team, and his contract may have to be included in an Iverson trade. With the trade rumors and his latest injury, it's possible that Iverson has played his last game for the Sixers.

[AFBlue]

You're kidding, right? Who was the second best offensive player on that 2001 team that went to the Finals? Aaron McKie? Great career he's carved post-Iverson.

What All-Stars are you referring to? Glenn Robinson? The guy was done by the time he got traded to Philly, which is why he never got a job back in the NBA after 2005. Jamal Mashburn? Did he even suit up for them? Webber had a great offensive season last year, but can't stay on the floor because he's so slow defensively. That's why his numbers are way down. Iverson hasn't had a good scoring teammate besides a gimpy Webber since Stackhouse in like '98.

I agree with you that AI hasn't had much help.

But I do agree with Dimsah that AI will never be the second option on any team, regardless of personnel. I also agree with Dimsah that AI's offensive style (one-on-one) can smother the talents of the other players, unless he finds the right compliment.

That is very few places in this league, if any, though it won't stop whoever gets him from telling you that AI is just what they need.

[mardigan]

He shoots a lot, yes, but he never has had another player to take those extra shots, so he has to shoot. And the last 4 years or so he has averaged 7 plus assists, so I think putting him with another legitimate scoring threat would do wonders for a team. Can you imagine him and Redd, or Joe Johnson? It would be sick

[mardigan]

Tons of talent around him? Who? Matt Geiger? Aaron Mckie? He has never had another top player around him and still took a scrub squad to the finals. The closest thing hes had is Webber, who was already broken down. The reason he doesnt make his teamates better is because his teamates suck.

[dimsah]

You're kidding, right? Who was the second best offensive player on that 2001 team that went to the Finals? Aaron McKie? Great career he's carved post-Iverson.
If you're lucky enough to have every other player on the team as good defensiveley as that team you don't need a lot of scoring.

This is the only kind of team that Iverson could have thrived in. Surrounded by guys that did nothing but play defense. Look at the starting 5 for that team.
pg: Eric Snow
sg: Iverson
sf: George Lynch
pf: Tyrone Hill
c: Mutombo
6th: Aaron McKie

Let's not forget head coach Larry Brown.
Aaron McKie won sixth man of the year. Mutombo won defensive player of the year, and Larry Brown won coach of the year.
If you think Iverson was the only reason they got to the finals, you're sadly mistaken. How else does a team that shoots 42% for the season get to the finals?


What All-Stars are you referring to? Glenn Robinson? The guy was done by the time he got traded to Philly, which is why he never got a job back in the NBA after 2005. Jamal Mashburn? Did he even suit up for them? Webber had a great offensive season last year, but can't stay on the floor because he's so slow defensively. That's why his numbers are way down. Iverson hasn't had a good scoring teammate besides a gimpy Webber since Stackhouse in like '98.
Yes, the same Glenn Robinson that averaged almost 21 a game every year until he joined the sixers. And Iverson couldn't play with Stackhouse either.

[AFBlue]

He shoots a lot, yes, but he never has had another player to take those extra shots, so he has to shoot. And the last 4 years or so he has averaged 7 plus assists, so I think putting him with another legitimate scoring threat would do wonders for a team. Can you imagine him and Redd, or Joe Johnson? It would be sick


Don't be fooled by his 7 assist avg. AI brings the ball up the court and has the entire offense flow through him. It's logical that he takes the shot or that the one person he dishes to takes the shot.

I'm convinced Redd would return to his spot-up shooting roots, waiting for the AI kickout that may or may not come and ignore the rest of his game, which he has vastly improved.

Joe Johnson would be just about the best compliment in the backcourt to AI, though as I previously stated, I think he's gotten used to being THE guy in Atlanta, and I'm not sure he'd want to concede the crown so quickly...

[mardigan]

Maybe with K.G. he would work.

[mardigan]

Those are all pretty good players in their time, but none of them were dominant players. A.I. has never had another consistent scorer on his team, so he has never had the chance to be anything other than what we have always seen.

[AFBlue]

Derrick Coleman although he's questionable, Larry Hughes, Tim Thomas, Joe Smith, Keith Van Horn, Kenny Thomas, Tyrone Hill. All talented compliment players. He's a stat machine and real talent but he doesn't raise the level of his teamates.

Add Iguadola to that list. I'm convinced that if this kid played for another team, he'd be a legit star by now....maybe Josh Howard-level. He's got the tools, but not the ball.

[mardigan]

Iguodala doesnt score because he cant shoot and averages 3 turnovers a game, thats why Korver gets the ball more. Iguodala cant score on his own, when A.I. was hurt last year Andre had plenty of chances and didnt do shit. Dont blame AI because Andre hasnt hired a shooting coach

[mardigan]

Nash is a point guard that averages 10 plus assists, AI is a shooting guard that averages 7 plus assists, different positions

[AFBlue]

Those are all pretty good players in their time, but none of them were dominant players. A.I. has never had another consistent scorer on his team, so he has never had the chance to be anything other than what we have always seen.

The problem isn't the supporting cast, it's the offense running through AI.

He's a better-scoring first option than just about every other player in the league. BUT, he does a worse job than most other "first options" at getting the ball to his second, third, and fourth options. I think the scoring desparity between Iverson and second option, an 18 PPG difference, has less to do with Iguadola or Korver's talent as it does with AI's inability to get them the ball.

[mardigan]

I can see what you mean, but isnt the point guards job to distribute? The 76ers should have brought in a true pg long ago when they realized AI wasnt a point.

[AFBlue]

Iguodala doesnt score because he cant shoot and averages 3 turnovers a game, thats why Korver gets the ball more. Iguodala cant score on his own, when A.I. was hurt last year Andre had plenty of chances and didnt do shit. Dont blame AI because Andre hasnt hired a shooting coach

He's not supposed to HAVE to score on his own. His #1 scoring option should help to create opportunities for him....which AI does not.

[mardigan]

Naw man it makes perfect sense, but what Im saying is that when the 76ers went to the finals they did have a true point guard but not another score, if AI had both, or even a low post prescence that he has never had, we might think differently of him

[mardigan]

Tony doesnt really create and averages less assists but he isnt refered to the same way

[AFBlue]

I can see what you mean, but isnt the point guards job to distribute? The 76ers should have brought in a true pg long ago when they realized AI wasnt a point.

That's when he was at his best, when Snow was the PG.

But now it appears that'll be someone else's issue...hopefully someone with an unselfish point guard...a bigger one too, b/c it would kill the defense to have AI and another 6ft nothing pg out there...

[AFBlue]

Naw man it makes perfect sense, but what Im saying is that when the 76ers went to the finals they did have a true point guard but not another score, if AI had both, or even a low post prescence that he has never had, we might think differently of him


It would require the coach of that team to force AI to run through that low post guy, causing him to defer (a.k.a. option #2) and it's just hard for me to see AI in that role.

[AFBlue]

Tony doesnt really create and averages less assists but he isnt refered to the same way

Tony averages less assists b/c the offense predominantly goes through Tim Duncan. This will slowly change over the course of the next few years as Tony will undoubtedly become #1 scoring option.

Though I agree, that his game and AI's are not too dissimilar.

[ALVAREZ6]

The Sixers will surely look different without him, AI has been the Sixers for many years now. He is the image of the team. It's gonna be weird without him here.

[AFBlue]

The Sixers will surely look different without him, AI has been the Sixers for many years now. He is the image of the team. It's gonna be weird without him here.

Well it hasn't happened yet, but it sounds as if the rumor and speculation are grounded in reality.

[baseline bum]

Derrick Coleman although he's questionable, Larry Hughes, Tim Thomas, Joe Smith, Keith Van Horn, Kenny Thomas, Tyrone Hill. All talented compliment players. He's a stat machine and real talent but he doesn't raise the level of his teamates.

You're bringing up Derrick Coleman? The greatest underachiever in NBA history? The same Derrick Coleman who couldn't play with anyone but Syracuse? :lmao

Larry Hughes? What was he? 19 when he played with Philly? The guy has had one good season his whole career, and has been nothing but a disappointment the rest of it.

Is it AI's fault that Joe Smith sucked on Minnesota, Milwaukee, and Denver too?

Tim Thomas? Mr. 37% from the field now that he's got his contract from the Clippers? He's never had a good season, and has only looked good at times in contract years. Otherwise, he's worthless.

Keith Van Horn? You're really reaching here. KVH has always been one of the 5 worst players in the league.

Kenny Thomas? Tyrone Hill? When have they ever been offensive players?

The only guy you can even make an argument for is Stackhouse. Then again, Stack's never been known for his maturity either, so it's not a one-way street there.

[1Parker1]

He's had tons of talent around him and he's shown time and time again he's capable of being a big name player but incapable of making his teamates around him better.


:wtf LIke who? John Salmons? Matt Barnes? Kyle Korver?

[AFBlue]

You're bringing up Derrick Coleman? The greatest underachiever in NBA history? The same Derrick Coleman who couldn't play with anyone but Syracuse? :lmao

Larry Hughes? What was he? 19 when he played with Philly? The guy has had one good season his whole career, and has been nothing but a disappointment the rest of it.

Is it AI's fault that Joe Smith sucked on Minnesota, Milwaukee, and Denver too?

Tim Thomas? Mr. 37% from the field now that he's got his contract from the Clippers? He's never had a good season, and has only looked good at times in contract years. Otherwise, he's worthless.

Keith Van Horn? You're really reaching here. KVH has always been one of the 5 worst players in the league.

Kenny Thomas? Tyrone Hill? When have they ever been offensive players?

So you're saying that with a different "#1 Guy", Iguadola and Korver would still average 13ppg as #2 and #3 options??? I seriously doubt that Iguadola is a 13ppg-type player, and I know that Korver can knock down shots if given the open look.

[1Parker1]

If you're lucky enough to have every other player on the team as good defensiveley as that team you don't need a lot of scoring.

This is the only kind of team that Iverson could have thrived in. Surrounded by guys that did nothing but play defense. Look at the starting 5 for that team.
pg: Eric Snow
sg: Iverson
sf: George Lynch
pf: Tyrone Hill
c: Mutombo
6th: Aaron McKie


You're arguing right into the point. In 2001, when he had that team, Those players were in their primes and Brown was doing his coaching thing. Which showed that when AI had quality players around him, he has the ability to take the team to the next level. Look at who Philly has managed to put around him since then for the past 6 seasons. The only bright spot is Andre Igodala.

[1Parker1]

I know that Korver can knock down shots if given the open look.

Have you seen a Sixers game?? Korver gets plenty of open shots. Problem is he is very inconsistent and is one dimensional. More than that, his defense is completely overated but Philly management seems to think he's a diamond in the gem. He's a bench player at best, not a starter and he needs a lot more coaching and training to get better, which he will not get in Philly under Mo Cheeks.

[1Parker1]

Steven A Smith just reported that AI will be traded before the New Year.

They also showed a statement released by AI that basically stated that Billy King has told him not to come back for the next couple of games and take the time off (he left the Bulls game early the other night with back spasms). :(

This whole situation is a real shame. I feel like everyone is blaming AI and making him out to be the bad guy when it reality it doesn't fall on his shoulders completely. I'm sure he's partly responsible for the situation, but other guys and management have also failed just as badly.

Can't imagine Philly without AI :( I wonder if anyone is even going to bother going to games if he's traded, at least until Sixers get another high profile/competitive player.

[Guru of Nothing]

Speaking as a Spurs fan, I hope AI goes to Minny and plays with Garnett, because it would make for some of the best playoff basketball ever.

[dimsah]

You're arguing right into the point. In 2001, when he had that team, Those players were in their primes and Brown was doing his coaching thing. Which showed that when AI had quality players around him, he has the ability to take the team to the next level. Look at who Philly has managed to put around him since then for the past 6 seasons. The only bright spot is Andre Igodala.No, my point is that kind of team doesn't exist anymore. This is the only kind of team that could be successful with Iverson. A team where no one else had to shoot. There is no way you can gather defense first players at every position like that team had. There are very few scorers in the league that could play along side Iverson because he dominates the ball too much.

[JeremyWariner]

So Philly straight up says...IVO IS DONE HERE...boy that really gives them leverage.

[baseline bum]

Every player mentioned had talent now they aren't the greatest players to play in the league but they were talented. Put some of those names on the Spurs roster and I bet alongside TD they are better. Look at DA he was great when he was here. Superstars not only fill the stat sheet they bring the best out their teamates. AI's never done that.

That's like talking bad about Duncan because Steve Smith, Raja Bell, and Hedo Turkoglu were crap as Spurs.

[dimsah]

When was Raja Bell a Spur again?