Tony becoming a passing PG?

[mathbzh]

In december tony's number are 17.9/7.8 in 9 games.

Will Tony finally improve his passing skills and become a true PG?

With Gino back, it would be great

[ChumpDumper]

It just means that more guys are hitting their shots after Tony passes to them.

[mathbzh]

You are a genius

[ChumpDumper]

Parker's assists

November: 4.88
December: 7.78

Team shooting

November: .465 FG, .377 3PT
December: .502 FG, .468 3PT

Not exactly a direct correlation, but it's pretty telling.

[stéphane]

You are a genius

obviously he's not but at least he's using largely more his brain than you before posting such an answer...

[ChumpDumper]

obviously he's not:lol

[xcoriate]

Tony is definitely looking to pass more, I think he has chosen (or Pop) that since Manu appears to be playing the way he was in 05 he can relinquish some of the scoring load.

That being said his improved assist numbers are a direct bi-product of shooters making shots and not necessarily improved passing skills. Poor Elson is going to have to put up with horrible lob passes for the rest of his stay in SA.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Even though his teammates are hitting more shots, it has to do with the ball-movement in general. Isn't the team assist ratio up a little too this month?

Tony is looking for the passing option more though, I noticed in the last week. Though there are a few plays where he still runs into traffic and cuts a good possession.

But he's starting to make good decisions when to pass or go to hole, so now the defenses are gonna have even more problems with Tony, as he gets a better knack at it.
We're gonna be pretty dangerous if Tony starts juggling his scoring/passing abilities.

[xcoriate]

Correction: Unless they come from Manu or Barry

[mathbzh]

Take it easy. My answer didn't mean to be agressive. I just believe it is a bit short to explain this kind of improvment only with FG%. The FG% improvment may be the consequence not the cause of assist numbers improvment.
I don't know if Tony is improving but it would be great.
7.8 in 31 minutes makes Tony a top5-6 in assist per 48 minutes.
As Chump says it's pretty telling.

[stéphane]

Obviously he's not


:lol

Even if i'm not posting a lot, i've been around for quite some time now so no way for me not to be aware of that :nope :p:

[ChumpDumper]

I was being flippant since I and others have always said Tony could get 2 or 3 more assists per game if the shooters hit more shots. Our five main scorers are simply on fire this month and even Finley has brought his FG% up 10 points in December, so I'm not complaining either way.

[stéphane]

TP won't be a passing pg until he looses his speed...
tell me you want him to be way better at decision making and i'm all right...
but sorry asking him to be a passing PG would be just silly...
he's a slashing PG.
I don't want him to be the best PG because he won't ever be but as long as he helps the team in the way he's asked to...

[Bruno]

Spurs should have traded Parker + Rasho for Marbury. :)

[mathbzh]

I don' ask him to be a passing PG. Just a multidimensional PG.
If he can pass and score, go inside and shoot from the perimeter he will be virtualy unguardable. I don't want him to be the best PG but the best he can.

[ginobili fan]

I don' ask him to be a passing PG. Just a multidimensional PG.
If he can pass and score, go inside and shoot from the perimeter he will be virtualy unguardable. I don't want him to be the best PG but the best he can.

Then he would just be the best point guard :lol :lol

[ginobili fan]

TP won't be a passing pg until he looses his speed...
tell me you want him to be way better at decision making and i'm all right...
but sorry asking him to be a passing PG would be just silly...
he's a slashing PG.
I don't want him to be the best PG because he won't ever be but as long as he helps the team in the way he's asked to...

What is a "best point guard" for you stéphanie?
doing 20 and 11? :spin

[Nikos]

That is not Tony's game to be an elite passer at this point in his career. And even if it was, he probably wouldn't have the stats to show for it on this team with Duncan as the main option and Manu as a legit 2nd/3rd option.

The main thing is for him to score efficiently and keep his turnovers down. Sure it would be nice if he could average 7apg but 5.8apg @ 33mpg isn't exactly terrible. If he can keep his turnovers low and his scoring as high as it is he will be doing his job.

[ginobili fan]

That is not Tony's game to be an elite passer at this point in his career. And even if it was, he probably wouldn't have the stats to show for it on this team with Duncan as the main option and Manu as a legit 2nd/3rd option.

The main thing is for him to score efficiently and keep his turnovers down. Sure it would be nice if he could average 7apg but 5.8apg @ 33mpg isn't exactly terrible. If he can keep his turnovers low and his scoring as high as it is he will be doing his job.

:clap

[stéphane]

What is a "best point guard" for you stéphanie?
doing 20 and 11? :spin

stéphane not stéphanie thx maybe you didn't read it well as you were spinning... :rolleyes
are the stats everything for you? so bowen is a scrub right? :donkey
best point guard is imo good shooting, good slasher, excellent court vision/passing, good D and among all these DECISION MAKING.

[timvp]

In december tony's number are 17.9/7.8 in 9 games.

Parker's best attribute is scoring, so I'd rather see him average 21.9 and 5.8. But perhaps that's just me.

[stéphane]

Parker's best attribute is scoring, so I'd rather see him average 21.9 and 5.8. But perhaps that's just me.
always been the same question in sports...
better to be just above average in every area or one of the best in just one and average in the other... for me no question, parker is a slasher, yes of course he can improve other things but he can't do less what he's the best at...

[T Park]

It's not.

People will never get it through their thick skulls that him scoring makes the team better.

Kid is 22 or 23, and gets the most undeserved shit on the team.

Its to the point of lunacy.

[ShoogarBear]

Parker's best attribute is scoring, so I'd rather see him average 21.9 and 5.8. But perhaps that's just me.I agree that his best attribute is scoring, but I bet the Spurs record is better in games where he has >= 10 assists than in games where he has >= 25 points.

More assists probably means that he and at least one other person are playing well.

[Kori Ellis]

In december tony's number are 17.9/7.8 in 9 games,

I believe in four of those games, he didn't even play in the fourth quarter. Tony's numbers have been excellent this month (he's also shooting 56% from the field).

On the year, Tony is averaging 19 and 6 and shooting 52%. His turnovers are also down from last year. I think if he can hang somewhere around that shooting percentage and end up with 20 and 7 on the season, the Spurs should be in excellent shape.

[Kori Ellis]

I agree that his best attribute is scoring, but I bet the Spurs record is better in games where he has >= 10 assists than in games where he has >= 25 points.

More assists probably means that he and at least one other person are playing well.

Well he only has two games this season with 10+ assists, I believe. But I do know they lost a game when he had 9 (Lakers).

[Kori Ellis]

Manu has also been excellent in December.
17/4/4/2 on 50% FG, 52% 3FG and 94% FT.

[ShoogarBear]

Conclusion: If Many, Tony, and Tim are all playing well, the Spurs will win more than they lose.

:nerd

[ShoogarBear]

Well he only has two games this season with 10+ assists, I believe. But I do know they lost a game when he had 9 (Lakers).Yeah, I was talking more about career than this year in particular.

Although averaging 7.8 assists without many games over 10 is pretty, could we say, consistent.

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah, I was talking more about career than this year in particular.

Yeah I realize. I know that the Spurs record when he scores 20+ is excellent over his career (I don't know exactly what it is). But his 10+ assist games is such a small sample size, I'm guessing (didn't look it up) the Spurs are undefeated.

[picnroll]

Screwthe passing he needs to shoot more threes. .529, 4th in the league ahead of Barry.



j/k (I think)

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah, that's why I said 25 instead of 20, so the sample sizes for scoring would be cut down a little.

I suspect he has lost some games with 10+ assists, though.

Maybe in my copious free time I'll try to look it up.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Has anyone seen the movie Lost In Translation?


So far in this thread I've learned that Tony is either (a) distributing the ball better and/or (b) the Spurs are hitting a higher percentage of shots...or course the cause and effect relationship of that correlation could be argued either way.

Oh, and I also learned that Chumpdumper is not a genius. I always figured he was, so that's news to me.

[ShoogarBear]

Wha-wha-whaaat?

ChumpDumper doesn't have a penis?

[boutons_]

I remember in Dec 03, I think, Spurs ran off a 13 game W streak (stared in LA with Malik gettting hurt), with Tony very obviously passing and getting a bunch more ASTs than in that Nov or later that season.

I think the Spurs are much better when Tony balances better distributing and shooting. It's very simple, when a player gets his hands on the ball, he feels involved and motivated, feels trusted/respected enough to take shots.

Yeah, Tony can score, but there are plenty of scorers in the NBA who are on losing teams. There are way too many possessions now where Tony dribbles around, drives or shoots, and is the only player to touch the ball.

I wouldn't like to run down the court so many times/game to watch Tony shoot, even if he made it. Sorta like Lamar and Kobe, Lamar said he's not there to watch Kobe shoot.

The best basketball is, duh,
plenty of ball movement,
lots of crisp passing,
moving without the ball (you're not motivated to move without the ball if the ball doesn't come to you),
everybody touching the ball,
getting a chance to shoot.

Since the Spurs are their own worst enemy (along with injuries), anything Tony can do get everybody motivated on offense makes the motivation for defense so much easier.

Tony's PPG isn't the only game objective for the Spurs.
Tonys distributing is the meta-game of motivating/involving everybody on both ends.

When, eg, Lakers shutdown the paint and Tony's drives, he can always keep distributing. He's shown many times over the last 3 years that he can do it very well. There's no need to wait for him to mature into a distributor. It's up to Pop to get him to do it.

[Spurminator]

Tony is averaging a whopping ONE less shot per 48 minutes in December (21) compared to November (22).

So I think we have our answer.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Wha-wha-whaaat?

ChumpDumper doesn't have a penis?

I think it happened when he was travelling to Venus.

[ShoogarBear]

I think it happened when he was travelling to Venus.At least he wasn't going to . . . nah, not in the holiday spirit.

[RC's Boss]

here We Go Again W/ This Pass 1st Pg B.s. He Is A Scoring Pg... Get Over It. W/ Out It This Team Would Have Sucked Last Year. If His Coach Isn't Complaining Then You Shouldn't... Try To Enjoy The Fucking Game And Be Thankful We Have An All-star Pg To Go W/ An All-star Pf. When You Have A Dominant Post Player, You Don't Need Nash Or Kidd On Your Team. I Don't Recall Kenny Smith Or Derek Fischer Avg. 10 Apg W/ Shaq And The Dream! Get Off Tony's Sac Dammit!

[beirmeistr]

I remember in Dec 03, I think, Spurs ran off a 13 game W streak (stared in LA with Malik gettting hurt), with Tony very obviously passing and getting a bunch more ASTs than in that Nov or later that season.

I think the Spurs are much better when Tony balances better distributing and shooting. It's very simple, when a player gets his hands on the ball, he feels involved and motivated, feels trusted/respected enough to take shots.

Yeah, Tony can score, but there are plenty of scorers in the NBA who are on losing teams. There are way too many possessions now where Tony dribbles around, drives or shoots, and is the only player to touch the ball.

I wouldn't like to run down the court so many times/game to watch Tony shoot, even if he made it. Sorta like Lamar and Kobe, Lamar said he's not there to watch Kobe shoot.

The best basketball is, duh,
plenty of ball movement,
lots of crisp passing,
moving without the ball (you're not motivated to move without the ball if the ball doesn't come to you),
everybody touching the ball,
getting a chance to shoot.

Since the Spurs are their own worst enemy (along with injuries), anything Tony can do get everybody motivated on offense makes the motivation for defense so much easier.

Tony's PPG isn't the only game objective for the Spurs.
Tonys distributing is the meta-game of motivating/involving everybody on both ends.

When, eg, Lakers shutdown the paint and Tony's drives, he can always keep distributing. He's shown many times over the last 3 years that he can do it very well. There's no need to wait for him to mature into a distributor. It's up to Pop to get him to do it.
Very good post.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

here We Go Again W/ This Pass 1st Pg B.s. He Is A Scoring Pg... Get Over It. W/ Out It This Team Would Have Sucked Last Year. If His Coach Isn't Complaining Then You Shouldn't... Try To Enjoy The Fucking Game And Be Thankful We Have An All-star Pg To Go W/ An All-star Pf. When You Have A Dominant Post Player, You Don't Need Nash Or Kidd On Your Team. I Don't Recall Kenny Smith Or Derek Fischer Avg. 10 Apg W/ Shaq And The Dream! Get Off Tony's Sac Dammit!
They're not talking about dismissing Parker's number one strength (which is to score with his speed. ) Just that he's rounding out his game and his weaknesses.

It's more on point that he should add a little dimension to his game, not be a PASS FIRST, but include making that extra pass in his decision making. Even Barry commented a couple weeks ago after that Clippers game that it'll be better for himself and the team and that he's heading in the right direction by being a good passer as well! Not to be Steve Nash type point guard or anything, (because the team doesn't need that) but juggle decisions like he did in his 15th assist game?
You think he would have helped if he had fell in line and not had read the Clippers defense by clogging the lane? And kept wasting possessions by insisting on scoring himself?
Some of you guys are so damn loyal to a static approach. Pop obviously adjusted last year's Tony take 25 shots when Tim and Manu healed up and got their confidence back.

Sheesh.

[mathbzh]

Nice post.

[RC's Boss]

I'm not loyal to any approach... I'm just sick of posts like the one where he got engaged to Eva and people cracked jokes about him giving up the rock! I can't think of another PG outside of maybe Chris Paul that would fit this club better. He's the 2nd most important player on this team. So AGAIN to his luv/hate fans I say get off his freakin' sac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ShoogarBear]

Oh, come on. I was one of the ones who made the Parker jokes about the ring and I'm not a basher by any means. Tony's not perfect, and one of his flaws is he'll get tunnel vision at times. I know that he's being coaching to play a certain way, but he still overdoes it at times.

[Texas_Ranger]

If he had 8 ast. in the last two games that doesn't mean that he is a passing PG.
For me he still shots too much.

[ShoogarBear]

^Now that's a basher.

[beirmeistr]

Tony Parker was sitting on the bench, the Spurs game about to start. He takes out his cell phone and calls Eva to ask if she is going to make it to the game. Eva responds " Don't worry, Tony. I'll be there before the next teardrop falls." (Freddy Fender music in the background)

[RC's Boss]

^Now that's a basher.
True!

[RC's Boss]

What I'd like to know is what PG would posters prefer over Tony????

[ducks]

they would prefer nash but then nash shots aton of shots
watch the suns sometimes
but tp plays better d then nash

[ducks]

Why hasn't Pop seen what a lot of us Spurs fans have been seeing? A "true" point guard should have more assists than shots attempted. Hey, Tony, share the ball!
– Josie, Lytle


Something tells me that if Josie were in charge of balloting for the Basketball Hall of Fame, only one point guard in the sport's history would be inducted: John Stockton.

I took Josie's standard for determining a "true" point guard and applied it to 10 players widely considered among the greatest points to ever play: Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Steve Nash, Isiah Thomas, Stockton, Bob Cousy, Jason Kidd, Walt Frazier, Tiny Archibald and Gary Payton.

Of the 10, only Stockton routinely had more assists than shots attempted. And I tend to think that if Stockton had been blessed with Tony Parker's quickness, we would have seen those too-short shorts zipping to the basket a little more often.

So, once again: Does Tony sometimes shoot too much? Yes. But making him a full-time distributor would deprive him – and the team – of his greatest skill.

The key for Tony is to find a balance between his roles as scorer and creator. So far, he looks like he's making strides in that direction. In nine games this month, he's averaging 7.8 assists.

[RC's Boss]

A point gaurd that raps in French.... T.P.'s the shit!

[xamila rey]

Assist goal helps boost Spurs' Parker in hot streak

By Johnny Ludden
Express-News

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA122006.01C.BKNspurs.parker.34d116b.html

Michael Finley sets the same goal for Tony Parker each game. No matter how good Parker's shot is feeling that night, no matter how easily he's splintering the opposing defense with his quickness, Finley wants him to create 15 assist opportunities.
"If you give a teammate a chance to score — whether they score or not — 15 times a game," Finley said, "that's a great number to shoot for."

While there have been times in Parker's career where he appeared to have little interest in shooting for anything but the rim, the Spurs' point guard has routinely hit Finley's target this month. In the past nine games, Parker has averaged 7.8 assists, nearly three more a game than he averaged in November.

The Spurs credit Parker's unselfishness as one reason why they enter tonight's game against Memphis with an 8-1 record in December.

"He's not the type of point guard who's going to come in and set records with 20 assists — even though he's capable of doing that," Finley said. "But he puts himself in position to make plays not only for himself, but for others.

"And when he does that, it makes us a whole different team."

Parker's assist production probably will never rival that of Phoenix's Steve Nash or New Jersey's Jason Kidd. Manu Ginobili shares in the ball-handling duties and the Spurs continue to run a good portion of their offense through Tim Duncan.

But as Parker builds a case for his second consecutive All-Star selection, he continues to work toward striking a better balance between his roles as scorer and distributor. Or, what Spurs coach Gregg Popovich calls "one of the last stages of his development as a point guard."

"It's a very difficult stage when you start out as a scoring point," Popovich said. "But he looks at film, he watches other players, he discusses with me that concept and he wants to get it down."

Parker's improvement has shown in recent weeks. He picked apart the Los Angeles Clippers with his passing on Dec. 8, handing out a career-best 15 assists. In four of the past six games, he's had at least eight assists. He reached that mark just twice in all of November.

Parker is averaging 5.9 assists for the season, up slightly from a year ago. But he also hasn't played too many fourth quarters this month because the Spurs have won five games by at least 20 points. As a result, his minutes have dropped to an average of 32.8, the fewest since his rookie season.

Parker said his goal is to have at least six assists a night. In November, he said, "I was under five and under five is not good."

"Not only does Tony have that mentality as a scorer, but he's successful at doing it," Finley said. "A lot of point guards come in and want to be scorers, but they can't score.

"Tony's had success at scoring and, as a result, it sometimes makes it hard for him to see the easy pass."

Parker's ability to get to the rim makes him a dangerous offensive weapon. In addition, he also now owns a fairly reliable jump shot. His .523 shooting percentage is second to Nash (by .0001) among all point guards.

But while Parker averages a team-high 15.1 shots per game, Popovich frequently reminds him he can use his quickness and other skills to also create scoring opportunities for others.

"With him, it's all about pace because he can't beat everybody in the league to the bucket," Popovich said. "There are other things he can do out on the court to cause havoc and get the ball to teammates."

Finding the perfect balance, Parker admits, remains an ongoing battle. At the end of the third quarter of last month's victory in Seattle, Popovich ripped him for not being aggressive enough. Parker responded by scoring 12 points in a six-minute burst.

The next night against Golden State, Popovich chided Parker for shooting too much.

"Pop wants the best of both worlds: He wants me to score 20 points and have 10 assists," Parker said. "But do it in the right way. Take good shots, have a high percentage and at the same time get everyone involved.

"That's why it's hard sometimes."

Parker's assists have increased this month in part because some of his teammates — most notably Ginobili — are shooting better. But he also has done a better job of sharing the ball.

In the Dec. 8 victory over the Clippers, Parker even surpassed Finley's goal. Not only did he have more than 15 assist opportunities, he finished with 15 assists in just 30 minutes of work.

Parker valued the performance as much as if he would have scored 30 points himself.

"It's always good to have those games because I don't feel like I'm a selfish player," Parker said. "I want to try to get everybody involved."

[email protected]

[whottt]

My take is that...

Tony has the talent, willingness, intelligence, work ethic and confidence to do whatever the Spurs ask him to do, and become whatever the Spurs want him to become.

He's proven this already at the age of 24. He's done everything asked of him and improved in everyway asked of him, almost as if on cue.

And he's still the age of some rookies.

I remember Pop saying in an interview when asked what he wanted of Tony...I want him to be John Stockton and Isiah Thomas at the same time. That was a change from earlier in his career when Pop just wanted him to be Isiah.

Now was Pop making a joke? Or was Pop making a statement on what he thinks Tony can be? We'll never know but it's not like Pop to throw around statements and put the pressure on an individual like that...and I think that was 2 years ago in the playoffs when he made that comment.

When asked about Tony now...Pop just says, "he's a stud".

I remember Parker showing some nice passing talent early in his career, in fact I think that was the most developed part of his game when he first stepped on the court, and I think Pop wanted to work on his scoring because Tony showed he had the talent and knace to do it early in his first season...


I've always said Tony can pass and it won't surprise me to see him make that transition at some point in his career....he's never failed to grow his game yet.

Tony is going to have an amazing career IMO.


There are a lot of great passing PG's in the league but there are only like 2 or 3 capable of scoring as efficiently as Tony.

[drclic]

Holala :-).

always critics for TP.

This guy shot 52 % ... he can shoot more if you want my opinion.
6 assists per game ... hummm ...
You can't ask to replace his shots by teamates shot because he has a very good selection (even jum shots now).
So you have to give him more the ball instead of Manu or Beno but i prefer him share minutes and try to put the ball in Manu's hand trying to regive him confidence.
Hoppefully for SA, you have other creative player. Kidd has allways the ball, CP3 too ... Tony just fit in a old system, he is not the system like Kidd, Chris Paul or Nash could be ...
If he don't have assist it's not because he don't share the ball, it's because he shares creativity with Manu, TD and the Spurs team system.


Avery Johnson just hitted 13 pts and around 8 assists for his SA carreer without sharing minutes and creativity with teammates ...


Drclic.

[dg7md]

What I'd like to know is what PG would posters prefer over Tony????

None at this point.

Paul can be argued but Parker knows the system and fits into it better.