Ludden - Udrih relegated to third-string status for Spurs

[Spurs Brazil]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA122506.11C.11CSpursBenching.209f0a7.html

Web Posted: 12/24/2006 06:14 PM CST

Johnny Ludden
Express-News

Jacque Vaughn jabbed the ball from the hands of New Orleans guard Jannero Pargo, deflected it ahead to himself then burst up the sideline.
Sitting on the bench, watching Vaughn hustle from one end of the court to the other Saturday night, was Beno Udrih.


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Which is exactly what Spurs coach Gregg Popovich hoped the young point guard was doing.

"I want to have Beno see what it's like to have somebody come off the bench with fire and passion and aggressiveness," Popovich said. "When he does that, he'll become a more valuable player to us."

In the meantime, Udrih apparently will sit. Popovich has used Vaughn to back up Tony Parker the past three games — and judging from the 11 assists, four points, three rebounds and two steals Vaughn totaled in just 19 minutes against the Hornets, that's probably not going to change when the Spurs play host to Milwaukee on Tuesday.

In addition to being a tireless worker, Vaughn is a tough on-the-ball defender who can pressure opposing point guards the length of the floor. Popovich had asked the same of Udrih, hoping it would raise his aggressiveness.

"It might help me get into the game a little faster," Udrih said. "I tried to do it, but then he started playing Jacque.

"What can you say? He's the head coach. He decides who to play, who not to play."

Udrih didn't play Wednesday against Memphis — the first game he has sat out this season. He logged eight minutes in each of the past two games, almost all of which came during mop-up time.

For the season, Udrih is averaging 6.0 points and 2.0 assists in 15.4 minutes per game, numbers nearly identical to what he averaged as a rookie. He hasn't shot well (36.3 percent from the field, 29.3 percent from the 3-point line), but that isn't what bothers Popovich.

The coaches think Udrih sometimes drifts through games, perhaps because he is so skilled. While Udrih has shown his potential — he helped jump-start the Spurs' 19-point comeback in the second half against Houston on Nov. 14 — Popovich wants to see some consistency and toughness from him.

"He's obviously talented," Popovich said, "but talent doesn't get you anywhere without the other qualities."

Udrih is frustrated. But he knows he now has to prove himself in practice and take advantage of whatever minutes Popovich does give him.

"Sometimes it's hard," he said. "Sometimes you get two minutes and two fouls. Sometimes you can be in seven, eight minutes and you can't show your aggressiveness.

"It's hard to say I'm not aggressive. I always felt great on the court and trying to help my teammates.

"I just need to be positive. My head has to be clear, like it is. Sooner or later I'll get my chance and I'll be ready."

Udrih has clearly tested his coach's patience. Popovich called him the team's "fourth point guard" during training camp when he was sidelined with a hamstring injury.

But Popovich also said Udrih did a "decent job" during his rookie season and admitted the Spurs didn't really give him a chance last season after signing Nick Van Exel to be Parker's backup.

"So the jury is still out on Beno," Popovich said. "But he knows exactly what he has to do to get on the court, and when he does it he'll be on the court."


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[T Park]

Typical Udrih attitude.

Well he isn't giving me a chance sniff sniff.


Grow a pair, play defense, and toughen up you piece of crap.

[dimsah]

He is coming off sounding like a whiny little bitch in this piece.

[Kori Ellis]

He is coming off sounding like a whiny little bitch in this piece.

I really just don't like this line:


"It might help me get into the game a little faster," Udrih said. "I tried to do it, but then he started playing Jacque.

I know he goes on to say that he knows Pop's the coach, blah blah. But he can't be making the excuse that he's not aggressive and focused because he doesn't get the game fast enough. He's obviously not doing what he needs to do in practice and in games. Pop and the rest of the coaching staff WANT him to succeed. Though JVaughn is doing a decent job, he's really a third string guard and the Spurs know Beno has the talent to be a good backup point guard. I really wish he'd do it.

When someone isn't talented and is a hardworker who just doesn't cut it, then that's okay. But when someone is talented but just doesn't do what they need to do, that's very frustrating.

[VaSpursFan]

all the talent in the world with no passion to succeed is pretty worthless. beno just doesn't have the fire in his belly to realize his full potential. it may best to part ways with him.

[timvp]

At different points, I've heard Pop and the Spurs' coaching staff say Beno is the team's best passer and best shooter. However, there comes a time when Beno has to translate those skills to the basketball court.

Hopefully Beno can find his will and determination in his eggnog.

:santahat

[angel_luv]

"I just need to be positive. My head has to be clear, like it is. Sooner or later I'll get my chance and I'll be ready."

This is your chance. No excuses- go play!



At different points, I've heard Pop and the Spurs' coaching staff say Beno is the team's best passer and best shooter. However, there comes a time when Beno has to translate those skills to the basketball court.

Hopefully Beno can find his will and determination in his eggnog.

:santahat

Ditto.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

http://www.PlaceBenoOnWaivers.com

[MannyIsGod]

Hopefully Beno can find his will and determination in his eggnog.

That seems to be the theme when talking about Beno. We're always waiting for him to come around. Fuck it, game over. When Vaughn has beat you out you should just be finished. Maybe the Spurs can move im for a 2nd round pick in the NBDL draft.

[E20]

In the meantime, Udrih apparently will sit. Popovich has used Vaughn to back up Tony Parker the past three games — and judging from the 11 assists, four points, three rebounds and two steals Vaughn totaled in just 19 minutes against the Hornets

Holy shit, Vaugh had 11 assists in 19 minutes? :wow

[T Park]

www.sendbenotoaustin.com :)

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

www.sendbenotoaustin.com :)

It's already been determined that Beno can't be sent to the NBDL with his current contract.

[Kori Ellis]

It's already been determined that Beno can't be sent to the NBDL with his current contract.

It doesn't really have anything to do with his contract. It's because he's been in the league more than two years. They should have sent him last season if they weren't going to play him.

[SequSpur]

I determined two years ago that Beno was shitty. It's on Pop now. Pop is a selfish hardheaded coach and it's starting to bite him right in the ass.

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/cory_alexander.jpg

[T Park]

Spot on Manny.

Hes Cory Alexander all over again.

Its the JR Reid syndrome also.


All that talent, nothing in the head to take advantage of it.

[velik_m]

This is pointless, they'll not change how he plays. Either accept him for the player he is, or trade him away. The current situation benefits nobody, not the Spurs and not the Beno. The spurs FO needs to sack up and solve this problem once and for all.

[JPB]

Ludden - Udrih relegated to third-string status for Spurs


Udrih has clearly tested his coach's patience. Popovich called him the team's "fourth point guard" during training camp when he was sidelined with a hamstring injury.

So, he has progressed, right ? :lol

[zeleni]

1. Beno was great the first season.

2.Beno hardly ever played in the second season.

3.Beno is getting f***ed in the 3rd season.

4.Pop obviously decided that Beno is to be the victim of the fact that Spurs didn't repeat. If Rasho or Beno get his due praise, people would ask why didn't they play in the playoffs.

[Spurs Brazil]

Beno must stop making excuses and play hard

He's playing the worst defense in the team

If he keep playing like that the Spurs will trade him in the dedline

[Bruno]

"So the jury is still out on Beno," Popovich said. "But he knows exactly what he has to do to get on the court, and when he does it he'll be on the court."

The good news is that Pop hasn't given up on Beno. It's now up to Beno to show that he really wants to play by playing hard in pratice and during games.

Last time, Pop has called Beno "a fourth string point guard" and Beno has well answered with two good games against Dallas (the last game of the preseason and the first of the regular season). Let's hope that he will have a good reaction this time too and that this reaction will be longer because after some good games, Beno has been quite bad this season. Anyway, I find it's quite disapointing about Beno that Pop needs to speak to media when he try to motivate him.

[picnroll]

I had hopes for and supported Beno for a long time but that time has long since past now. Beno came into the draft with a lot of baggage, a reputation about effort and intensity, from other team's coaches he'd played saying he just had no heart. Then Beno put out the effort in the Chicago camp and made himself a first round pick. Since then Beno has reverted back to the player all those other coaches knew and got frustrated with. He simply has no hearts, no nuts or both.

[SenorSpur]

Beno's retarded development is of great concern. He should be a lot further along than he is. He needs to get his head and his act together.

His troubles aside, of everything in that article, this is the line I struggle with:

But Popovich also said Udrih did a "decent job" during his rookie season and admitted the Spurs didn't really give him a chance last season after signing Nick Van Exel to be Parker's backup.

No shit Sherlock. If NVE's diminished skills and poor play weren't already a ringing indictment against the Spurs for signing him in the first place, now Pop reminds everyone of the adverse affect it had on Beno's development.

I'd be interested in seeing how far Beno would have progessed had it not been for last season's failed NVE experiment.

[Slomo]

1. Beno was great the first season.

2.Beno hardly ever played in the second season.

3.Beno is getting f***ed in the 3rd season.

4.Pop obviously decided that Beno is to be the victim of the fact that Spurs didn't repeat. If Rasho or Beno get his due praise, people would ask why didn't they play in the playoffs.1.- True
2.- Also true - and I am holding that against Pop.
3.- False - He's fucking himself. Playing in the NBA requires very solid work ethics and the motiviation to push yourself beyond your limits almost every game (see TP or maybe a little closer to home look at Primoz Brezec).
4.- I don't understand item 4. Rasho didn't fit in Pop's system - and he wasn't the first and probably not the last player to whom it happened - but he's work ethics and comitment to the team were/are beyond reproach and that's the main criticism of Beno at this point. Beno didn't play in the playoffs because of the mistakes he made on the court (and with Pop one mistake will put you in the dog house for a long time - see Malik). And finally I sometimes have a problem with Pop's coaching decisions, but I do not think that the fear of having to explain something to the media influences his decisions during the season - I think he just doesn't care about his public persona enough.

[angel_luv]

Beno may be already, but if he is unhappy with his situation, he needs to follow Rasho's example.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...id=968867503640


Nesterovic, who didn't get off the bench for two straight Raptor games, heard his name called yesterday and answered with a solid performance, just four points, but seven rebounds in Toronto's 92-83 win over the Indiana Pacers.

Surprised? His coach wasn't.

"After the first DNP-CD (NBA boxscore-speak for sat and watched all night), after the game, Rasho was upstairs working out, running, lifting, getting some shots and he did the same thing yesterday," Sam Mitchell said. "Rasho's a pro, he understands we've got a new team, we're feeling our way around a little bit ... trying to find minutes and a niche for each guy and we needed him."

[ducks]

that is what beno needs to do but he would rather tell the media that it is pop's fault

beno will get traded now as soon as spurs can get a deal for him

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Trade Beno+Scola+2nd rounder for a 76ers first rounder from the nuggets. Vaughn has obviously shown he can handle the backup spot. Then in the draft we get another point guard to put in Beno's spot. Hopefully that guy will be more tougher.

[ducks]

beno and scola for a first round draft pick is to much

[zeleni]

1.- True
2.- Also true - and I am holding that against Pop.
3.- False - He's fucking himself. Playing in the NBA requires very solid work ethics and the motiviation to push yourself beyond your limits almost every game (see TP or maybe a little closer to home look at Primoz Brezec).
4.- I don't understand item 4. Rasho didn't fit in Pop's system - and he wasn't the first and probably not the last player to whom it happened - but he's work ethics and comitment to the team were/are beyond reproach and that's the main criticism of Beno at this point. Beno didn't play in the playoffs because of the mistakes he made on the court (and with Pop one mistake will put you in the dog house for a long time - see Malik). And finally I sometimes have a problem with Pop's coaching decisions, but I do not think that the fear of having to explain something to the media influences his decisions during the season - I think he just doesn't care about his public persona enough.

3. Brezec is playing just to be coming from the bench in his near future. Knowing that and his bitter memories from the Pacers episode made him to leave his national team caps. Brezec has all ambitions in the NBA salary.

Beno has to have ambition suited for his abilities. He is a great shooter, a great passer and intelligent player able to run the game by himself. TP is the firststringer here and Pop is doing all he can to keep that going. So Spurs have two strongminded players, one of them is THE star, and the other is mostly and consistenly in the doghouse. Fine and have no problems if there is a lesson to learn. But I just cannot see the lesson. Spurs wanted to repeat and they failed. Failed in the running game with crippled veteran Nick van X. WITHOUT BENO.

4.All I am saying is this: Beno plays in a totaly different team now, and in this team he is not even an equal. Basicly he is like Bonner now, while fighting for minutes against a kid he demolished his entire childhood and a limited old team-oriented elder pointguard. Talk about humiliation!? Pop is fu**** with him alright. Beno needs to fight this through. This is not a different team?
Lets see. Tim is the center, Horry is not action-figure, Barry is a reliable shot, Manu is going from the bench, no interior defense, less blocks, weaker perimeter defense and after all: Parker became a good passer and a finisher-not just a speed freak. All this while Beno stayed in the doghouse. TP, Pops dream project, was building on his skills while Beno got the shaft with no experience.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i say we get a package together to the kings for ron artest

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

beno and scola for a first round draft pick is to much
Beno isnt gettin minutes and scola's agent is whining like a bitch until scola gets his money(which the Spurs arent gonna give him), so why not?

[ducks]

trading scola to the sixers is smart I think
but will sixers think he is to old?

[velik_m]

Which teams could use a backup PG?
Which teams have a backup PG that would be interesting for spurs?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

These are the times when I wish we had as much money as the Knicks. But we would use it right.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

trading scola to the sixers is smart I think
but will sixers think he is to old?
Isnt he 26?

[Slomo]

3. Brezec is playing just to be coming from the bench in his near future. Knowing that and his bitter memories from the Pacers episode made him to leave his national team caps. Brezec has all ambitions in the NBA salary.

Beno has to have ambition suited for his abilities. He is a great shooter, a great passer and intelligent player able to run the game by himself. TP is the firststringer here and Pop is doing all he can to keep that going. So Spurs have two strongminded players, one of them is THE star, and the other is mostly and consistenly in the doghouse. Fine and have no problems if there is a lesson to learn. But I just cannot see the lesson. Spurs wanted to repeat and they failed. Failed in the running game with crippled veteran Nick van X. WITHOUT BENO.

4.All I am saying is this: Beno plays in a totaly different team now, and in this team he is not even an equal. Basicly he is like Bonner now, while fighting for minutes against a kid he demolished his entire childhood and a limited old team-oriented elder pointguard. Talk about humiliation!? Pop is fu**** with him alright. Beno needs to fight this through. This is not a different team?
Lets see. Tim is the center, Horry is not action-figure, Barry is a reliable shot, Manu is going from the bench, no interior defense, less blocks, weaker perimeter defense and after all: Parker became a good passer and a finisher-not just a speed freak. All this while Beno stayed in the doghouse. TP, Pops dream project, was building on his skills while Beno got the shaft with no experience.3.- Brezec is working very hard - I don't care what his motivation is, he's working very hard. Beno is not. I want him to try and guard his man. If he fails he fails - but he must try first. He's not trying.

4.- I understand point 4 better now - although I disagree completely. Whatever the contributing factors (according to you) to Beno's situation today are, it does not excuse his lack of work ethics. TP, Manu, TD and everybody else have off nights (Beno on the other hand only had a few "on" nights) and will get torn appart on this board, so don't expect Beno to get a free pass because he was unjustly confined to the bench last year (a mistake that even Pop acknowledges). Beno needs to prove on the court that last year was a mistake.

As for ElliotFan and others who are screaming to trade him: please give me a good solution what to do if we do trade him - because Vaughn cannot be our backup guard.

No! don't even mention last night's game, he can't do it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

we need to find some gm dumb enough to take udrih and someone else for a rebounding big man

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

As for ElliotFan and others who are screaming to trade him: please give me a good solution what to do if we do trade him - because Vaughn cannot be our backup guard.

No! don't even mention last night's game, he can't do it.
You know, Manu and Brent can play point guard too. They can all share the position.

[Kori Ellis]

You know, Manu and Brent can play point guard too. They can all share the position.

For short stretches, that's okay. But the Spurs want a regular backup point guard. They were hoping Beno would become that this year. If the Spurs traded Beno, I would think they'd want a PG back. Right now, Beno's value is too low to trade though. To bad (for him and the Spurs) that they couldn't pull off the JJack trade.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Then lets just keep Beno for the rest of the year and then do my trade on draft night.

[Fabbs]

Would be nice to grab a Sixers 1st rounder, but IMO Sixers are going to tank the rest of this year, give up two of their 1st round picks to try to trade up to as high as possible a position for the Greg Oden sweepstakes.

With Oden being the next Tim Duncan you are going to see major manuevers to try and get him. Whoever gets that ping pong ball should be set for an 8 year run barring injury.

[Kori Ellis]

Then lets just keep Beno for the rest of the year and then do my trade on draft night.

Why would they want Scola? Is he going to finally get out of his contract?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

He better. For the spurs's sake.

[Bruno]

Vaughn cannot be our backup guard.


I disagree with that.

Vaughn isn't the most gifted bb player but he can be a decent backup PG.

Vaughn is a solid defender, takes care of the ball, is smart and is a solid passer. On the offensive end, he is very limited but he knows it and doesn't try things he can't do.

The backup PG spot isn't 30 mpg : it's 12-14mpg in regular season and 10mpg in playoffs. Vaughn, even with his limited skills, has played more than 15mpg for six years. Spurs won't win games because of Vaughn but they won't lose games because of him.

With Beno at 100%, backup PG spot will be a strength for Spurs.
With Vaughn, backup PG spot will be average.
With Beno struggling and playing no defense, backup PG spot will be a weakness for Spurs.

[Slomo]

I disagree with that.

Vaughn isn't the most gifted bb player but he can be a decent backup PG.

Vaughn is a solid defender, takes care of the ball, is smart and is a solid passer. On the offensive end, he is very limited but he knows it and doesn't try things he can't do.

The backup PG spot isn't 30 mpg : it's 12-14mpg in regular season and 10mpg in playoffs. Vaughn, even with his limited skills, has played more than 15mpg for six years. Spurs won't win games because of Vaughn but they won't lose games because of him.

With Beno at 100%, backup PG spot will be a strength for Spurs.
With Vaughn, backup PG spot will be average.
With Beno struggling and playing no defense, backup PG spot will be a weakness for Spurs. I agree with your last paragraph, as long as Tony stays healthy (knock on wood, spit on the floor and all that :) ).

[SequSpur]

Beno sucks so bad he makes Vaughn look good.. :lmao

They both suck.

[T Park]

I just find it hilarious, how people can blame this on Pop.

How is this Pop's fault?

Are you kidding me?

[SequSpur]

I just find it hilarious, how people can blame this on Pop.

How is this Pop's fault?

Are you kidding me?


Pop is King.

[SenorSpur]

I like Vaughn too. Love his tenacious defense, passing and overall hustle. But he's a liability on offense and other teams know it. Like it or not, Beno absolutely has to develop for this team to be successful. Pop most recently referred to him as the best passer on the team and everyone knows he can shoot lights out. He's a good changeup guard for TP.

IMO, he's too talented to ship out and be allowed to develop in someone else's hands. He simply just needs grow up and take ownership of the fact that he has a ways to go to become a steady PG in this league.

At the same time, Pop should exert more patience too. He did this kid no favors by relegating him to 3rd string last season in favor of that washout NVE. Sorry, I can't let it go. I curse Pop and R.C. for making such a STUPID move.

[T Park]

At the same time, Pop should exert more patience too

Its his third year in the league.


Fuck that shit.

Im tired of the constant bullshit excuses.

[judaspriestess]

I think Beno's lack of desire is because he doesn't want to play with the Spurs. IMHO

[JPB]

[QUOTE=Bruno]The good news is that Pop hasn't given up on Beno. It's now up to Beno to show that he really wants to play by playing hard in pratice and during games.
QUOTE]

What other choices does he have ?
Than hoping beno finally makes it.

[timvp]

I disagree with that.

Vaughn isn't the most gifted bb player but he can be a decent backup PG.

Not on the Spurs.

Maybe the Spurs can get away with it in the regular season but in the playoffs, teams would gameplan to make Vaughn shoot whenever he's on the court. Remember how much of a disaster it was when teams forced Anthony Carter and Jason Hart to shoot? Vaughn is an even worse shooter.


When Atlanta Hawks guard Jacque Vaughn opened the season with an astonishing 23 consecutive missed shots...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1001331,00.html


You want a guy whose claim to fame is missing 23 consecutive shots to play in the playoffs? I don't.

In a perfect world, Beno will step up and claim the backup PG spot. Vaughn would be used as a change of pace player you bring in for a couple minutes to play pressure defense.

Last time Pop called out Beno it worked. He played his best game of the season in the first game of the season against the Maverick. Ever since then, it's been a steady decline back into mediocrity.

And actually, I think Pop has been more than fair with him. He not only let him play game after game while he was playing worse and worse, he even found time for him next to Tony.

Now, again, it's up to Beno to sink or swim.

[JPB]

I believe more and more that SA is just not the right team for Beno. He can play in the NBA but maybe not in such an elite team. He could probably develop well in a team with less pressure, and with a different type of coach.

some players can play and produce anywhere, whatever the conditions, others can't.

[Bruno]

What other choices does he have ?
Than hoping beno finally makes it.

It's not like Pop has never given up on a player.
Beno is in the doghouse but the door is still open.

[Texas_Ranger]

That sucks, I still think that Beno is better than Vaughn.

[Bruno]

Not on the Spurs.

Maybe the Spurs can get away with it in the regular season but in the playoffs, teams would gameplan to make Vaughn shoot whenever he's on the court. Remember how much of a disaster it was when teams forced Anthony Carter and Jason Hart to shoot? Vaughn is an even worse shooter.

I remember more the whole Spurs team unable to hit a jumpshot against Lakers after game 2 when they decided to close the paint as answer to Parker's penetrations. This years, Spurs' shooters are way better than in 04.

I remember than the last good shooting PG not named Beno with a Spurs jersey was Terry Porter in 02.

I remember Spurs winning a title in 05 while it was Parker's worse shooting year.



You want a guy whose claim to fame is missing 23 consecutive shots to play in the playoffs? I don't.

He won't be famous for that, Kevin Burleson has missed something like 36 consecutives shots last year.

[T Park]

I don't remember much of the Anthony Carter era, because he only played like 12 games.

Whats Vaughn's shooting percentage the last few games hes played.


Whens the last time Beno got 11 assists in 19 minutes..

[Kori Ellis]

I don't remember much of the Anthony Carter era, because he only played like 12 games.
You don't remember cycling through backup point guards such as AC, Shane Heal and Jason Hart?




Whats Vaughn's shooting percentage the last few games hes played.


33%.

On the season, 25%.

[polandprzem]

You don't remember cycling through backup point guards such as AC, Shane Heal and Jason Hart?.

I remember that year Mercer plaing a PG at some point when Parker, Carter and Hart were injured

[zeleni]

3.- Brezec is working very hard - I don't care what his motivation is, he's working very hard. Beno is not. I want him to try and guard his man. If he fails he fails - but he must try first. He's not trying.

4.- I understand point 4 better now - although I disagree completely. Whatever the contributing factors (according to you) to Beno's situation today are, it does not excuse his lack of work ethics. TP, Manu, TD and everybody else have off nights (Beno on the other hand only had a few "on" nights) and will get torn appart on this board, so don't expect Beno to get a free pass because he was unjustly confined to the bench last year (a mistake that even Pop acknowledges). Beno needs to prove on the court that last year was a mistake.

As for ElliotFan and others who are screaming to trade him: please give me a good solution what to do if we do trade him - because Vaughn cannot be our backup guard.

No! don't even mention last night's game, he can't do it.

Brezec is trying after a miracle of a expansion team. Even I would be happy if somebody would prove to me that Santa is indeed Kris Kringle. But miracles are rare.

Beno on the other hand got his miracle with the draft alone. And then he (I agree with you) didn't work for it enough. But wasn't respected either on this team. A great talent from the bench never quite pulled that magic we all know he is able to produce but wasn't bad at all for a rookie.
And lack-of-defense argument is BS. He was the best defense-per-minutes pointguard his first season by 82games. And then they pulled Nick the Quick. Pop alone is responsible for the failure of that repeat. Like Bird&Carlisle, who kept Brezec as away as possible from the court. Like Mitchell who will entrap Slokar in the same joke of smart team managment.

[Kori Ellis]

I know people are apt to completely blame Pop for not playing Beno last year over Nick (and yes, Pop acknowledged that perhaps Beno's development was hurt by not getting more time). But does anyone stop to think that if Beno was working his ass off in practice (as most backup players in the NBA need to do) that he would have been given more of a chance??

Just a thought.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

Slovenian ballas are blameless.

[MannyIsGod]

I blame Beno for ruining the Spur's calander this year.

I'm threw with Beno. I'm so tired of him.

[zeleni]

:lmao

Slovenian ballas are blameless.

I blame all of them intently and with rage incomparable. But here I'm not critisizing/praising Beno afterall...so what your fucking point?! Slomo on the other hand is wholly on the other side of the argument. Along with you, Chump.

Kori...Was he lazy? I was reading here mostly about how Nick is a vet and a value beyond measure for the playoffs. Beno was praised for rare games when he got some minutes, and never i heard a remark about his laziness.
If he wasn't lazy, if he was working and improving and with a spark of that famous ambition to winning, he certainly got shafted. I cannot see otherwise. That can be said specialy if you compare his plays against the improvement of TP. Beno was on the other hand critisized for the defense all three years, while he was statisticaly PERFECT the first year, hardly played the next and is now a 3rdstringer.

I pretty much tired of this BS about pressure defense. Beno has the right to be pissed. He was chambered for the purpose of education of TP. Beno on the other hand never got the chance to improve. Pop is the reason. It is that simple.

[JPB]

It's not like Pop has never given up on a player.
Beno is in the doghouse but the door is still open.

Not indefinitely.

[MannyIsGod]

I blame all of them intently and with rage incomparable. But here I'm not critisizing/praising Beno afterall...so what your fucking point?! Slomo on the other hand is wholly on the other side of the argument. Along with you, Chump.

Kori...Was he lazy? I was reading here mostly about how Nick is a vet and a value beyond measure for the playoffs. Beno was praised for rare games when he got some minutes, and never i heard a remark about his laziness.
If he wasn't lazy, if he was working and improving and with a spark of that famous ambition to winning, he certainly got shafted. I cannot see otherwise. That can be said specialy if you compare his plays against the improvement of TP. Beno was on the other hand critisized for the defense all three years, while he was statisticaly PERFECT the first year, hardly played the next and is now a 3rdstringer.

I pretty much tired of this BS about pressure defense. Beno has the right to be pissed. He was chambered for the purpose of education of TP. Beno on the other hand never got the chance to improve. Pop is the reason. It is that simple.:lol Beno was perfect statistically EVER? Dude, are you blowing Beno? Seriously, Beno's defense sucks. His work ethic has always sucked. This is not something that started wth the NBA, as I understand it his previous coaches have stated this in the past too.

Its crazy that TP gets hate from the Manu lovers and now he's getting hate from a Beno lover on top of that. Beno shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Parker because Parker owns him in every single thing you can name.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm sorry, but I really am rolling over this part:

"with a spark of that famous ambition to winning"

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Beno can regain his statistical perfection if he continues to get DNPs.

[JPB]

I know people are apt to completely blame Pop for not playing Beno last year over Nick (and yes, Pop acknowledged that perhaps Beno's development was hurt by not getting more time). But does anyone stop to think that if Beno was working his ass off in practice (as most backup players in the NBA need to do) that he would have been given more of a chance??

Just a thought.

Beno definitely has problems dealing with his situation. He's the kind of guy who needs to feel he has the coach confidence. The lack of stability in his situation really hurts his game.

I wouldn't blame Pop at all either. He's a great coach because of the way he's coaching :nerd.
It was succesfull with Tony. But it's obviously not working with Beno, so far at least.

[T Park]

He was chambered for the purpose of education of TP

stiff back up who wont stay in shape, or all star top 5 in the NBA point guard.


Yeah tough decision there.


:lol unreal.

[T Park]

blame Pop for not playing Beno last year over Nick

whats funny about that.

Van Exel was never believed to be the MAIN backup.

Beno just got outworked and out practiced for the backup spot.

Plain and simple.

[Slomo]

I blame all of them intently and with rage incomparable. But here I'm not critisizing/praising Beno afterall...so what your fucking point?! Slomo on the other hand is wholly on the other side of the argument. Along with you, Chump.

Kori...Was he lazy? I was reading here mostly about how Nick is a vet and a value beyond measure for the playoffs. Beno was praised for rare games when he got some minutes, and never i heard a remark about his laziness.
If he wasn't lazy, if he was working and improving and with a spark of that famous ambition to winning, he certainly got shafted. I cannot see otherwise. That can be said specialy if you compare his plays against the improvement of TP. Beno was on the other hand critisized for the defense all three years, while he was statisticaly PERFECT the first year, hardly played the next and is now a 3rdstringer.

I pretty much tired of this BS about pressure defense. Beno has the right to be pissed. He was chambered for the purpose of education of TP. Beno on the other hand never got the chance to improve. Pop is the reason. It is that simple.I will repeat myself for the last time. I want to see effort from him!!!

Brezec is not the most talented player in the NBA, but he is working his ass off to make up for what he lacks in talent - that's something nobody can take away from him and that's something I respect him for (so do others, I've heard many announcers call him the "underrated" center). Would I draft him into my imaginary bball team? probably not but it's not the point of this discussion.

When I look at Beno I see the ghost of Marko Milic hovering over him - and it scares me. Beno is somebody I desperately want to succeed because otherwise it's a huge wast of talent, but I'm not going to start blaming others until he has exonerated himself of his part in the current situation. Until I see changes in his attitude and effort - he's the main culprit.

I was firmly on his side last year because I thought he was not responsible for the situation he was in. This year? it's his fault first, everything else second.

[ChumpDumper]

But here I'm not critisizing/praising Beno afterall...so what your fucking point?! You're his apologist here, that's the point.

Beno was never perfect on defense.

You can say NVE played too much, but when Beno got a chance to prove himself last season, he got his ass handed to him by a mini-me power forward from the Albuquerque Thunderbirds.

This season, when presented with a golden opportunity to nail down the backup point slot for years to come, Beno comes in and starts chucking like Antoine Walker and allowing more backdoor baskets in one game than Parker has allowed in his entire career. Overall he has sucked so badly this year, he has justified Pop's turning the job over to a guy who was shooting 19% from the floor because Vaughn can be counted upon to suck slightly less on average.

Beno is talented. Sure. So what? NBA bench players have to be ready to perform at a high level with little to no notice, and no guarantee of minutes. There are 30+ point guards in the NBA and more in the minors who can accept this. Why can't Beno?

[Slomo]

whats funny about that.

Van Exel was never believed to be the MAIN backup.

Beno just got outworked and out practiced for the backup spot.

Plain and simple.Sorry but that's not true either. Even Pop admited that he was giving VanX priority.

[aaronstampler]

too bad the Spurs can't sign Pepe Sanchez. He'd be a great backup point IMO, especially if they let him play with Manu.

[velik_m]

I know people are apt to completely blame Pop for not playing Beno last year over Nick (and yes, Pop acknowledged that perhaps Beno's development was hurt by not getting more time). But does anyone stop to think that if Beno was working his ass off in practice (as most backup players in the NBA need to do) that he would have been given more of a chance??

Just a thought.

You mean like certain other Slovenian who they got rid of this summer? Beno was ready last year, NVE got time. Beno got the message - work ethics mean shit, Pop will play whoever he likes.
Solve the problem: trade Beno.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol By all means, trade him. If he can't beat out Vaughn, he shouldn't be here.

[Kori Ellis]

You mean like certain other Slovenian who they got rid of this summer? Beno was ready last year, NVE got time. Beno got the message - work ethics mean shit, Pop will play whoever he likes.
Solve the problem: trade Beno.


No, nothing like Rasho. Rasho had a very good work ethic. He just made too much money and wasn't mobile enough in the post to warrant staying here. He was a good position defender, worked hard in practice and did his job. His talents (and price tag) just didn't fit in with what the Spurs thought they wanted to do.

How do you know Beno was ready last year? I have never heard that Beno practiced hard, stayed late, accepted his faults, or put in the extra time. I have only heard that he's cocky, out of shape, etc. What have you heard differently?

Again, I'm not saying that Pop was right by going to NVE over Beno. But I am not privy to know exactly what happens in practice (and neither are you), though there are a lot of indicators that Beno doesn't do what he needs to do in that area.

I agree though. Trade him, he will probably flourish in the right system if he works hard. He's a good shooter (though not this year; his shot selection sucks.) and a good passer. The Spurs have been trying to trade him on and off for quite a while. Nothing has panned out.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

:lol at people finally realizing Beno has had like 4 good games in the NBA his entire career :lol

[Que Gee]

His troubles aside, of everything in that article, this is the line I struggle with:

But Popovich also said Udrih did a "decent job" during his rookie season and admitted the Spurs didn't really give him a chance last season after signing Nick Van Exel to be Parker's backup.

No shit Sherlock. If NVE's diminished skills and poor play weren't already a ringing indictment against the Spurs for signing him in the first place, now Pop reminds everyone of the adverse affect it had on Beno's development.

I'd be interested in seeing how far Beno would have progessed had it not been for last season's failed NVE experiment.

Exactly. As someone stated, Pop is a selfish hard headed coach, which at times can be a good thing. But at times its also going to bite him in the ass...And this is a perfect example. There was no reason to keep putting NVE back on the floor game after game last year. It bordered on ludicrous. This is where it got him.

[ChumpDumper]

If Beno was ruined last year by Pop, why keep him now?

[LaMarcus Bryant]

This entire board already came to the consensus that we came to summer 2005: Beno sucks.

Trade
his
ass
The legendary Marcus Bryant said we'd play him alot of minutes this season to build his trade value (if it was not him, my bad) and we've done step one, but it seems all we've done is scoff him in our own media (something rarely done to any other play except like malik rose) and now noone wants him.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Grow a pair, play defense, and toughen up you piece of crap.

That made me laugh out loud.

T Park, you're starting to sound like me, watch out.

I too am tired of the whole Udrih experience. This guy must have compromising photos of Pop double teaming a Thai hooker with Don Nelson or something to that effect because any other player that's either consistently hurt or giving no effort would be on a bus to Austin right now.

[T Park]

well, Im reffering to Beno, not Tim Duncan :)


be on a bus to Austin right now.

Can't be sent to Austin...

[polandprzem]

Beno is the most popular spur recently

[zeleni]

No, nothing like Rasho. Rasho had a very good work ethic. He just made too much money and wasn't mobile enough in the post to warrant staying here. He was a good position defender, worked hard in practice and did his job. His talents (and price tag) just didn't fit in with what the Spurs thought they wanted to do.

How do you know Beno was ready last year? I have never heard that Beno practiced hard, stayed late, accepted his faults, or put in the extra time. I have only heard that he's cocky, out of shape, etc. What have you heard differently?

Again, I'm not saying that Pop was right by going to NVE over Beno. But I am not privy to know exactly what happens in practice (and neither are you), though there are a lot of indicators that Beno doesn't do what he needs to do in that area.

I agree though. Trade him, he will probably flourish in the right system if he works hard. He's a good shooter (though not this year; his shot selection sucks.) and a good passer. The Spurs have been trying to trade him on and off for quite a while. Nothing has panned out.

1.Beno out of shape? Never heard that one. Injury prone is the only real adjective heard, and I was by far the greatest critic of BENO in this category.
It is a fact...No one really knows what are Spurs really trading. Even I know that by now. Beno is not at his pretty place for a long time now. That being said somebody is being injust dealing with him. If there is morals in business, Pop would make Beno's improvement his first priority. Otherwise I do not see a championship team in San Antonio.

[zeleni]

:lol Beno was perfect statistically EVER? Dude, are you blowing Beno? Seriously, Beno's defense sucks. His work ethic has always sucked. This is not something that started wth the NBA, as I understand it his previous coaches have stated this in the past too.

Its crazy that TP gets hate from the Manu lovers and now he's getting hate from a Beno lover on top of that. Beno shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Parker because Parker owns him in every single thing you can name.

An article from the first season (http://www.82games.com/rosenbaum3.htm)

Hate is only for Pop, you silly-ass. Beno should be getting some treatment FOR his improvement. The guy is deteriorating worse than when he spent his splitted season in Russia and Italy. Do not give me work ethics, when Spurs are destroying a good player they drafted.

I am not saying Beno is better than TP. I am saying TP got better cause of Beno, but Beno didn't get better cause of Pop. That is just not right.

[Pero]

I am saying TP got better cause of Beno,

???? :lmao
You may be somewhat right on other stuff, but this is a bit ridiculous.

[MannyIsGod]

Zeleni, how are you related to Beno?

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

Whats more is how bad that article is from a statistics (the math, not game stats) stand point. Beno has the smallest sample size and has the 2nd largest standard deviation. Not to mention those numbers are with Beno going against a 2nd unit.

Let me put it to you this way, the math behind those numbers stands up about as well as Beno against a full court press.

[picnroll]

Fact is Beno didn't even play well the second half of his rookie season. He has zero nads. It's not the Pussy Basketball Association it's the National Baskeetball Association. Poor fucking Beno. He's the first player who had to sit and wait his turn and wasn't just handed opportunities. Maybe the pussy ought to talk to guys like Jermaine O'Neal. He's tweny four. He's been whinng and feeling sorry for himself for years and no doubt has plenty of Slovenian buddies telling him he's right. He's not going to change. Someday when he's 50 he and his drinking buddies will be talking about how when he was a junior he was so much better than Parker but coaches screwed him and he never got a chance. That'll be Beno's legacy.

[SequSpur]

Welcome To The Grand Illusion
Come On In And See What's Happening
Pay The Price
Get Your Tickets For The Show!

[angel_luv]

Welcome To The Grand Illusion
Come On In And See What's Happening
Pay The Price
Get Your Tickets For The Show!

The World's shortest grown up !


Stop self promoting Sequ. :)

[SequSpur]

The World's shortest grown up !
Stop self promoting Sequ. :)

It's called the Pop Show. :rolleyes

[angel_luv]

It's called the Pop Show. :rolleyes


Sorry about the whine. :)

[zeleni]

???? :lmao
You may be somewhat right on other stuff, but this is a bit ridiculous.

Not that ridiculus. After a great rookie season where Beno's shooting and passing ability was shown, Beno got benched, TP got a shooting coach, while Beno never saw time in the playoffs. His third season he is left on the bench with Slomo ?? saying that he is lazy. Beno got shafted and only a coward could say that a shafted player is a bad player. Why do we not rather offer Beno some lotion against hemeroids? ;) :blah Man, you texans can be a primitive bunch, are you?



Whats more is how bad that article is from a statistics (the math, not game stats) stand point. Beno has the smallest sample size and has the 2nd largest standard deviation. Not to mention those numbers are with Beno going against a 2nd unit.

Let me put it to you this way, the math behind those numbers stands up about as well as Beno against a full court press.

Lets see. From the table of the worst and best pointguards nine (9) players have smaller sample size. 2 of them have smaller sample size and are in front of Beno. In any other playing spot the Spur in question is quite deservingly there (Manu, Bruce, Tim, Rasho). So why not Beno?
Beno played mostly against the second unit. That is true. That can only explain why TP never got to the top10. But that doesn't explain why Beno should be left the next season on the bench. Beno was obviously a great second PG. Who are you kidding?

[SequSpur]

Simple Simon..........

Beno is not very good.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Beno sucks.

[Pero]

Not that ridiculus. After a great rookie season where Beno's shooting and passing ability was shown, Beno got benched, TP got a shooting coach, while Beno never saw time in the playoffs. His third season he is left on the bench with Slomo ?? saying that he is lazy. Beno got shafted and only a coward could say that a shafted player is a bad player. Why do we not rather offer Beno some lotion against hemeroids? Man, you texans can be a primitive bunch, are you?

Uhhh, is this reffering to me? Because you know, I`m not Texan...
I don`t understand what is here to discuss anyway. Beno did have a good rookie season. His second season wasn`t his fault really... But this season is. He had a lot of opportunities to prove himself, and he didn`t use them. Maybe Pop is a little hard on him, but not really...
And I don`t know how anyone could have expected that Beno would get more chance than Parker who`s been on the team for a few years already and starting...
And most people aren`t saying that he is a bad player, just that he`s got poor work ethics and that he is basically, well.... a pussy.

[SequSpur]

Texan? :lmao

[Pero]

How to tell if you`re a Texan (http://home.uchicago.edu/~trwier/texana.html)

:blah

[angel_luv]

Where is the how to tell if you're Slovenian list? :)

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Let's get a PG in the draft.

[ChumpDumper]

How to tell if you`re a Texan (http://home.uchicago.edu/~trwier/texana.html)
How to tell if you're a Styx fan. (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1346488&postcount=93)

And really, just what has Beno done this season to suggest he is a great backup point guard?

[VaSpursFan]

beno has been horrible this season. the supposed best passer on the team is averaging only 2 assists, his defense is non-existent and he's just chucking away. pop can live with all of this EXCEPT horrible defense. he's made it known that if you don't give maximum effort on the defensive end, you don't play. beno knows this and he still plays lazy d.

he has no one to blame but himself. all the talent in the world means nothing if you don't have a passion to succeed. he just doesn't have the fire inside to be the best, and it's time for him to go bye-bye. the experiment has failed.

[zeleni]

Pero, you didn't said Beno sucks, did you? Rest with ease.

[zeleni]

the experiment has failed.

I am all okay with that.

[MannyIsGod]

Lets see. From the table of the worst and best pointguards nine (9) players have smaller sample size. 2 of them have smaller sample size and are in front of Beno. In any other playing spot the Spur in question is quite deservingly there (Manu, Bruce, Tim, Rasho). So why not Beno?
Beno played mostly against the second unit. That is true. That can only explain why TP never got to the top10. But that doesn't explain why Beno should be left the next season on the bench. Beno was obviously a great second PG. Who are you kidding?Beno has the smallest sample size. He only has one season in those numbers and he has the 2nd fewest minutes in the final season. Only Marcus Banks has fewer minutes, but Banks has an additional season. Those numbers are fools gold. Not to mention that no one here needs a mathmatical formula to understand that Beno gets beat all the time on defense.

[Bruno]

I don't think Spurs should trade Beno if pop has still some hope for him (and this article say he has) because his trade value is really low : Spurs will get nothing for him while they can get a very good backup PG if he wakes up.

[zeleni]

Beno has the smallest sample size. He only has one season in those numbers and he has the 2nd fewest minutes in the final season. Only Marcus Banks has fewer minutes, but Banks has an additional season. Those numbers are fools gold. Not to mention that no one here needs a mathmatical formula to understand that Beno gets beat all the time on defense.

Hey, I totaly understand. I am just saying he outperformed his opponent/2ndPG while he in the first season had a solid interior defense and a good stabile playbook. He was clearly a potential. And after all, he is a tall PG ergo a good foundation for the future. (BTW the same calculation gives Nick VanX a bad defensive name with much more data)

I was just saying Beno didn't hurt his team. He was a rookie who impressed his players and was not a serious threat until Hunter revealed a great secret or whatever.