What makes a team "soft"?

[samikeyp]

Anti-Spur haters love to drop that but they usually don't say why?

I have heard that for years and to me it is an inability to win the big game or series. The Spurs have proven they could do that. I also think that if you have what it takes to even make it at the NBA level you have to possess a certain toughness that very few have.

So what is it?

Is it a lack of thuggery? Not enough tattoos? Not enough headbands?

I think that was a perception that was hung on the Spurs franchise before 1999 because they had not proven they could win the title....that has since changed but people still hold on to it for lack of better things to do or lack of the mental ability to come up with a legit gripe and hold on to the old one despite not being true (much like the Jacksonian Asterisk).

So what makes a team soft?

[Bob Lanier]

Is it a lack of thuggery?
Yes. Players who do not physically intimidate their opponents, and who can be intimidated by their opponents, are soft.

Bruce Bowen may be dirty, but the only player on your team who is willing to throw his opponent to the ground to send a message is Robert Horry, who I'm guessing doesn't get much playing time these days.

A team does not have to be bad defensively to be soft.

[VaSpursFan]

softness has nothing to do with tattoos, headbands or thuggery. a team a soft if it has a porous defense. a team is soft if it does not have the intestinal fortitude to go for blood anytime they have a team down. a team is soft if it is unwilling to deliver a hard foul every now and again to send a message saying that this painted area is my house and you cannot come in here and leave unscathed. a team is soft if it shies away from physicality. a team is soft if the expect the refs to bail them out on every unsuccessful foray into the paint instead of playing through til you hear the whistle.

i could go on and on. but your attempt to connect it with headbands and tattoos is way off base.

[samikeyp]

Yes. Players who do not physically intimidate their opponents, and who can be intimidated by their opponents, are soft.

So then a willingness to compromise the rules denotes not being soft?

[SenorSpur]

The inability to play a physical style of game. Soft teams usually embody the following characteristics: poor rebounding, poor shotblocking and allow teams to shoot a higher than average FG%. Overall they're not very good defensive teams.

[cheguevara]

to me soft, is a team that lets themselves get pushed around on the court, outrebounded, poor defense, afraid to penetrate and doesn't make clutch shots. In other words, the way the mavs used to be a couple of years ago.

[samikeyp]

softness has nothing to do with tattoos, headbands or thuggery. a team a soft if it has a porous defense. a team is soft if it does not have the intestinal fortitude to go for blood anytime they have a team down. a team is soft if it is unwilling to deliver a hard foul every now and again to send a message saying that this painted area is my house and you cannot come in here and leave unscathed. a team is soft if it shies away from physicality. a team is soft if the expect the refs to bail them out on every unsuccessful foray into the paint instead of playing through til you hear the whistle.

i could go on and on. but your attempt to connect it with headbands and tattoos is way off base


Show me where I connected those things to being soft.

I didn't say that because a team doesn't have tattoos or headbands that they were soft....I was asking opinions of others and if that is what they think makes a team soft.

Nice way to pin something on me I didn't say.

[samikeyp]

The inability to play a physical style of game.

What if that style of play is not condusive to team success?

[polandprzem]

to me soft, is a team that lets themselves get pushed around on the court, outrebounded, poor defense, afraid to penetrate and doesn't make clutch shots. In other words, the way the spurs are a couple of weeks recently.

[VaSpursFan]

Show me where I connected those things to being soft.

I didn't say that because a team doesn't have tattoos or headbands that they were soft....I was asking opinions of others and if that is what they think makes a team soft.

Nice way to pin something on me I didn't say.

you're right. it was the implied meaning that a tough team has to have a thuggish image, or wear headbands or have tattoos that i didn't like. the spurs can be tough and have been tough without any of that. one doesn't have to portray the image you painted to be tough.

[cheguevara]

What if that style of play is not condusive to team success?

a nonphysical style of play will never get you a championship. Ever. Tell me 1 nonphysical team that won the trophy

[George Gervin's Afro]

A team can be mentally soft.. lack the killer instinct.. lack mental toughness, let other teams come into your house and take games away from you..

[polandprzem]

a nonphysical style of play will never get you a championship. Ever. Tell me 1 nonphysical team that won the trophy

Houston?

[cheguevara]

Houston?

u kiddin right?

[samikeyp]

a nonphysical style of play will never get you a championship. Ever. Tell me 1 nonphysical team that won the trophy

Dude...relax...its not personal.

Although the Spurs have never been accused of being a physical team and the Lakers of the 80's were known as a finesse team. (although they could drop the hammer when needed)

I do see what you are saying though and I agree with you. I was merely playing devil's advocate.

[samikeyp]

A team can be mentally soft.. lack the killer instinct.. lack mental toughness, let other teams come into your house and take games away from you..

I agree with that...in fact I think the Spurs were guilty of that up until 1999.

[samikeyp]

you're right. it was the implied meaning that a tough team has to have a thuggish image, or wear headbands or have tattoos that i didn't like. the spurs can be tough and have been tough without any of that. one doesn't have to portray the image you painted to be tough.

I was not trying to paint a picture.....I was asking questions. Again I was NOT saying what I thought....I was asking what OTHERS thought. SOME fans tend to equate things like that with toughness. I was trying to ASK if those perceptions are still held by some.

[cheguevara]

A team can be mentally soft.. lack the killer instinct.. lack mental toughness, let other teams come into your house and take games away from you..

good point. I think mental toughness is more important than physical toughness.

[Kori Ellis]

A team can be mentally soft.. lack the killer instinct.. lack mental toughness, let other teams come into your house and take games away from you..

That's more or less how I define soft. I think it's more mental then physical. Though I also think a soft team gets pushed around physically -- bodied up, dislodged from their position, etc.

[polandprzem]

u kiddin right?

What you mean by physical?

IMO Detroit (all 3), Lakers (80), Celtics (all), Knicks (90) were phisical.

Not teams like Chicago - mosty playing with finese

[samikeyp]

good point. I think mental toughness is more important than physical toughness.

True.....more often than not the Smarter team wins games.

[VaSpursFan]

I was not trying to paint a picture.....I was asking questions. Again I was NOT saying what I thought....I was asking what OTHERS thought. SOME fans tend to equate things like that with toughness. I was trying to ASK if those perceptions are still held by some.

that's fair, mate. no worries over here. i'm all for intelligent discussions.

[cheguevara]

What you mean by physical?

IMO Detroit (all 3), Lakers (80), Celtics (all), Knicks (90) were phisical.

Not teams like Chicago - mosty playing with finese

someone mentioned mental toughness. those teams up there might have been more mentally tough.

[polandprzem]

someone mentioned mental toughness. those teams up there might have been more mentally tough.

You was talking about phisycal, now you changed it to mental?

It was always mental! (about the softness)

[angel_luv]

Being soft to me is not becoming indignant and reactive when you are challenged. It's playing below your talent level and not taking ownership of a situation.

In a nutshell- soft is the polar opposite of Robert Horry when Rasheed left hm open. It is the absense of the whole " Let me remind you of who I am" mentallity.

[tim_duncan_fan]

good point. I think mental toughness is more important than physical toughness.

I think thats what people usually mean when they use the term soft. They're talking about a lack of mental fortitude not so much a willingness to put another player on the ground or physically intimidate them.

However, the Bad Boys of the early 90s had both types of toughness. I wish the spurs were a little tiny bit more like them.

[VaSpursFan]

good point. I think mental toughness is more important than physical toughness.

the combination of mental and physical toughness is what makes you an elite team and a championship contender. you have to impose your will and kill your opppenents spirit.

[George Gervin's Afro]

As much as I HATED to hear during the pre-1999 years that the Spurs were soft they were.. This is the first time since those days that I see the Spurs being challenged and not responding

[samikeyp]

As much as I HATED to hear during the pre-1999 years that the Spurs were soft they were.. This is the first time since those days that I see the Spurs being challenged and not responding

I am confident that they can respond...it almost seems like they don't want to respond. Like they are saving themselves for the playoffs.

[polandprzem]

I am confident that they can respond...it almost seems like they don't want to respond. Like they are saving themselves for the playoffs.

Yes it SEEMS. Just like like year.
The Sacto series was suppose to be a wakeup call. It didn't woke them up for real.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I am confident that they can respond...it almost seems like they don't want to respond. Like they are saving themselves for the playoffs.


I hope your right.. . I just don't get that vibe from this spurs team.. let's face it our marigin for error is at a 'Tim Duncan era' low at this point..

[VaSpursFan]

I am confident that they can respond...it almost seems like they don't want to respond. Like they are saving themselves for the playoffs.

then the spurs run the risk of falling into the trap where they believe they can turn "it" on and off at will. it is far better to instill fear in the opposing team rather than have them believe that they will catch you on an off day. you want teams dreading when the have to play the spurs.

with all the home losses that we have, what team is afraid to come in our house? after charolette beat us, that fear of the ATT center went up in smokes.

[Bob Lanier]

Not teams like Chicago - mosty playing with finese
The Bulls were plenty physical on defense, especially after they picked up Worm. The Lakers always had enforcers, both in the 80s and in the 00s. Houston was physical.

You say that the Bad Boys and 04 Pistons were physical, but those three teams might have been the most finesse-style offenses ever to win the NBA championship.

Of course, I don't define softness entirely as lacking mental toughness and perseverence, as many others seem to be.

[samikeyp]

then the spurs run the risk of falling into the trap where they believe they can turn "it" on and off at will.

agreed. I don't think the big three should be playing 45min a game but they have to assert themselves at one point on a consistent basis.

[polandprzem]

then the spurs run the risk of falling into the trap where they believe they can turn "it" on and off at will. it is far better to instill fear in the opposing team rather than have them believe that they will catch you on an off day. you want teams dreading when the have to play the spurs.

with all the home losses that we have, what team is afraid to come in our house? after charolette beat us, that fear of the ATT center went up in smokes.

:tu

Excactly

"we can turn it on" and we have a great record. That fooled them last year.
Is this year the same?

[polandprzem]

The Bulls were plenty physical on defense, especially after they picked up Worm. The Lakers always had enforcers, both in the 80s and in the 00s. Houston was physical.

You say that the Bad Boys and 04 Pistons were physical, but those three teams might have been the most finesse-style offenses ever to win the NBA championship.

Of course, I don't define softness entirely as lacking mental toughness and perseverence, as many others seem to be.

In taht case we have all psychical teams in NBA.

[angel_luv]

The Spurs-thank God- don't fall in this category.

But to me, it is softer than soft and weaker than weak to lose from a lazy absense of effort.
There is nothing more stupid than giving up games in your ability to win.

[samikeyp]

But to me, it is softer than soft and weaker than weak to lose from a lazy absense of effort.
There is nothing more stupid than giving up games in your ability to win.

Great point.

Losing is bad enough but losing because you are not trying is disgusting.

[KB24]

Stereotypes SUCK but the SPURS will always be labeled as SOFT. Even after the KING of SOFTNESS (Duncan) retires.

[VaSpursFan]

Stereotypes SUCK but the SPURS will always be labeled as SOFT. Even after the KING of SOFTNESS (Duncan) retires.

tim has been playing rather soft lately...but he's not the king of softness :lol :lol

[Spurminator]

One symptom of softness is a sense of entitlement that manifests itself into players flopping or flailing after any contact, or whining incessantly after every foul call or non-call. Soft teams expect points to be given to them.

When the Spurs are so focused on calls and non-calls, as they often have been this year, they don't look hungry. They look like a frustrated mess. It's as though they feel entitled to have the game called a certain way... and if it's not, then they're above playing at their best level.

The incessant bitching has to stop.

[samikeyp]

Stereotypes SUCK but the SPURS will always be labeled as SOFT. Even after the KING of SOFTNESS (Duncan) retires.

ok...but why are they soft? Someone wants to call them that fine but at least have the balls to have a reason...don't just succumb to blind hate.

[samikeyp]

One symptom of softness is a sense of entitlement that manifests itself into players flopping or flailing after any contact, or whining incessantly after every foul call or non-call. Soft teams expect points to be given to them.

When the Spurs are so focused on calls and non-calls, as they often have been this year, they don't look hungry. They look like a frustrated mess. It's as though they feel entitled to have the game called a certain way... and if it's not, then they're above playing at their best level.

The incessant bitching has to stop.

No shit....sadly though....there are a whole lot of players who do this...mainly superstars.

[VaSpursFan]

One symptom of softness is a sense of entitlement that manifests itself into players flopping or flailing after any contact, or whining incessantly after every foul call or non-call. Soft teams expect points to be given to them.

When the Spurs are so focused on calls and non-calls, as they often have been this year, they don't look hungry. They look like a frustrated mess. It's as though they feel entitled to have the game called a certain way... and if it's not, then they're above playing at their best level.

The incessant bitching has to stop.

exactly...and it all starts with timmy playing through the contact until he hears the whistle. if no whistle, hustle your ass back on d and keep playing. if the whistle doesn't blow, it's not a foul. tim has to set that tone.

[George Gervin's Afro]

exactly...and it all starts with timmy playing through the contact until he hears the whistle. if no whistle, hustle your ass back on d and keep playing. if the whistle doesn't blow, it's not a foul. tim has to set that tone.


Ok I'm glad someone else said it Tim needs to stop looking for calls and start imposing his will whether he gets a call or not..

[dav4463]

a nonphysical style of play will never get you a championship. Ever. Tell me 1 nonphysical team that won the trophy

It's been a long time, but the 79 Sonics were considered soft compared to the physical Bullets. Also, the showtime Laker teams of the 80's were not a physical team except for Rambis.

[Bob Lanier]

In taht case we have all psychical teams in NBA.
Hardly. Last year, for instance, I wouldn't call the Spurs, Mavs, Grizzlies, Clippers, Suns, Kings, Warriors, Timberwolves, Pistons, Bucks, Cavaliers, Knicks, Nets, Raptors, Sixers, Wizards, Bobcats, Hawks, or Magic physical.

Last year's champion Heat weren't tremendously physical, but neither were they soft; Shaquille O'Neal has always been one to try to injure opposing slashers rather than play position defense, Alonzo Mourning is a tough bastard, and Payton, Posey, and Haslem are willing to do the dirty work while Wade showboats.

The 79 Sonics and 80s Lakers - among others - were not the most physical teams of their day, but any sportscaster today would be shocked and appalled by their dirty, evil, society-wrecking thuggishness.