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View Full Version : The Enviroment Under Bush



MannyIsGod
11-07-2004, 01:05 AM
This area is the largest area of this administrations failure, and now that they are touting their so called mandate, I don't see them taking any measure to the contrary.

The sad fact is that because corporations and thier lobbies prevent the government from even saying anything is wrong with their actions, there is little to no hope of legislation brought forth by either party.

At some point we are going to have to stand up and acknowledge how forces such as global warming are occuring and that we need to take steps to remedy them.

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/110604bush_warming.html



Bush stands by rejection of limits on gases blamed for global warming

The Associated Press

WASHINGTON - President Bush is holding fast to his rejection of mandatory curbs on greenhouse gases that are blamed for global warming, despite a fresh report from 300 scientists in the United States and seven other nations that shows Arctic temperatures are rising.

This week, a four-year study of the Arctic will document that the region is warming rapidly, affecting global climates.

Scientists project that industrial gases such as carbon dioxide will make the Arctic warmer still, which would raise the level of the seas and make the earth hotter. The world's atmosphere now includes about 380 parts per million of carbon dioxide, compared with 280 parts per million in 1800, according to scientists.

Russian President Vladimir Putin signed the Kyoto international climate treaty last week, which puts it into effect early next year without U.S. participation. The treaty requires industrial nations to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases below 1990 levels.

"President Bush strongly opposes any treaty or policy that would cause the loss of a single American job, let alone the nearly 5 million jobs Kyoto would have cost," said James Connaughton, chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality.

Headed into his second term, Bush continues to believe he "made the right leadership choice" by repudiating the U.N.-sponsored pact negotiated in 1997 in Kyoto, Japan, Connaughton said.

Former President Clinton's vice president, Al Gore, negotiated the treaty for the United States and had a major role in its final form.

"Kyoto was a bad treaty for the United States," said Mike Leavitt, administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency.

Leavitt added in an interview Friday that climate change is not an issue the administration dismisses. "I know that it is of importance to the president that we continue to make progress," he said.

So far, Bush's policy has amounted to spending a few billion dollars each year on research.

White House officials contend the drastic cuts in pollution that the treaty would have imposed on the United States would have cost nearly $400 billion and almost 5 million jobs. Many would have shifted to other countries that were not obligated to reduce their pollution levels, the Bush administration says.

Russia, by contrast, can increase its pollution substantially under the treaty with a positive rather than detrimental impact on its job market, the officials say.

From 1990 to 2002, U.S. greenhouse gases increased 13.1 percent while Russian greenhouse gases decreased 38.5 percent, partly because of shrinkage in its industrial base after the collapse of the Soviet Union, according to the latest U.N. figures.

Global warming is a recurring theme that punctuated the start of Bush's terms in office.

In March 2001 Bush broke his campaign promise to regulate carbon emissions and withdrew the United States from the Kyoto treaty, which seeks to slow global warming by reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

Gore signed the treaty in 1997, but it never was ratified by the Republican-controlled Senate. Bush said it also should have included developing countries such as China and India, which are major polluters.

Achieving the treaty's target will be difficult without participation by the United States, which accounted for 36 percent of the industrialized nations' carbon dioxide emissions in 1990. Russia accounted for 17 percent.

Critics say Bush's opposition is ironic because the treaty was modeled after the market-based U.S. program for cutting acid rain created in 1990 by Bush's father and often pointed to by the current administration as a success story.

"Indeed, it would be very, very surprising if this instrument were not used by the people who invented it," Klaus Toepfer, executive director of the Kenya-based U.N. Environment Program, said in an interview.

Annie Petsonk, a lawyer for New York-based Environmental Defense, a nonprofit group that says it is dedicated to protecting the environment, said the United States will be left isolated on the biggest environmental challenge of the century. She said the White House estimates of Kyoto's costs do not appear to include the cost savings from trading pollution rights.

"For business, it's quite serious because it means that the global carbon market is going to move, and U.S. companies are going to be left out of that market," Petsonk said. She helped shape the Kyoto treaty and the first President Bush's climate policy as a Justice Department lawyer.

By signing on to the treaty, industrialized nations commit themselves to cutting their collective emissions of carbon dioxide and five other greenhouse gases to 5.2 percent below 1990 levels.

The Pew Center on Global Climate Change is releasing a report this week that says there is strong evidence that climate change already has begun to affect ecosystems and wildlife in the United States and around the world.

Some animal species are already moving from one habitat to another to adapt to warmer temperatures, according to the Pew report, and future warming probably will exceed the ability of many species to migrate or adjust.

Clandestino
11-07-2004, 12:19 PM
if bush were to sign this and the u.s. would lose 5 million jobs... then that is what we'd hear about. BUSH LOSES 5 MILLION JOBS!

T Park
11-07-2004, 12:22 PM
clandestino, now you understand the hypocrisy of the left.

Also, ignore the 1.7 billion Bush gave to support hydrogen fuel cells.

Or the other billions in additional money given to ethanol to support that as well.

Clandestino
11-07-2004, 12:28 PM
no, i have understood completely. just like they say we are only in iraq for oil and not any humanitarian reason what so ever. i ask, wtf are we doing in kosovo??? bc kosovo has shit and little else. it was 100% purely humanitarian. Bosnia too.

Hook Dem
11-07-2004, 12:40 PM
Manny...if it makes you feel any better, I planted 3 trees yesterday.(more oxygen for you to breathe) :lol

Bandit2981
11-07-2004, 01:20 PM
good for you hook! global warming isn't man made IMO, i think it's cyclical and a natural cycle of the earth to go through extreme climate changes

MannyIsGod
11-07-2004, 01:37 PM
Hook, actually yeah that's awesome. I dig it.

Bandit, most scientists would disagree with you that all of the gasses we've put into the atmosphere are not having an effect. They all agree that they are hvaing an effect.

Tpark, That 1.7 Billion is jack shit. If it weren't for oil company lobbies we would already HAVE Hydrogen fuel cell cars, along with the ability to make the fuel at home at a very low cost.

We won't have hydrogen cars untill the oil companies get an infrastructer in place to where THEY are the one's youstill have to go to for fuel. Mark my words.

Cladestino, we were in Kosovo because those were white europeans dying. Why is the world dragging it's heals on Sudan and why did it ignore Rawanda along with the situations in Tibet?

BTW, the figures vary on the job loss from Koyoto. The problem is that people don't recognize the jobs it would also open up. I don't blame Bush for the job loss, I blame 9/11.

If you want to address the issue do it, and stay on topic, or else keep your left bashing out of the thread. I'm sick of every thread in here deteroating into the left sucks, no the right sucks, no the left sucks.

Bandit2981
11-07-2004, 02:09 PM
Bandit, most scientists would disagree with you that all of the gasses we've put into the atmosphere are not having an effect. They all agree that they are hvaing an effect.
i do agree that some of the "greenhouse gases" are harmful to the environment and may help accelerate the climate changes, but even long before humans were around there have been climate shifts and ice ages. i guess my view is that while harmful, these gases aren't directly contributing to global warming, only adding on to whats already going to take place. if that makes any sense :lol

Guru of Nothing
11-07-2004, 05:32 PM
I'm no philosophy wiz, but I think most knocks against Bush (or any other administration) and the environment reek of solipsism.

Threats to the environment are purely the outcome of the consumer demands, with a minor exception here and there, I guess.

I'm a vegetarian because I believe it's better for my health and personal well-being, BUT, I'm also aware that individual demands to consume animal flesh are probably the #1 threat to the Earth's environment, moreso than any gas-guzzling Hummer.

To those who wish to eat meat, all I can say is bon appetit; but if you want to eat meat AND bitch about "the environment," then I say, STFU.

Useruser666
11-07-2004, 05:37 PM
I'm no philosophy wiz, but I think most knocks against Bush (or any other administration) and the environment reek of solipsism.

Threats to the environment are purely the outcome of the consumer demands, with a minor exception here and there, I guess.

I'm a vegetarian because I believe it's better for my health and personal well-being, BUT, I'm also aware that individual demands to consume animal flesh are probably the #1 threat to the Earth's environment, moreso than any gas-guzzling Hummer.

To those who wish to eat meat, all I can say is bon appetit; but if you want to eat meat and bitch about "the environment," then I say, STFU.

Volcanos are a bigger source of polution than meat eaters and Hummers combined. Let's stop the volcanos!!!

Um, farming in and of itself is not exactly the most eco friendly act either. Unless you eat oak leaves or pine needles.

Guru of Nothing
11-07-2004, 05:40 PM
Volcanos are a bigger source of polution than meat eaters and Hummers combined. Let's stop the volcanos!!!

Nuke the volcanos in the name of a cleaner environment. I like it.

It's a boost for the defense industry too.

win-win.

Useruser666
11-07-2004, 05:41 PM
Nuke the volcanos in the name of a cleaner environment. I like it.

It's a boost for the defense industry too.

win-win.

I hear that's where Osama is hiding! Well and Chaney!

Guru of Nothing
11-07-2004, 05:43 PM
I hear that's where Osama is hiding! Well and Chaney!

win-win-win-win

Clandestino
11-07-2004, 06:03 PM
Cladestino, we were in Kosovo because those were white europeans dying. Why is the world dragging it's heals on Sudan and why did it ignore Rawanda along with the situations in Tibet?


the kosovar albanians are muslims regardless of the color of their skin.

Hook Dem
11-07-2004, 06:11 PM
"I'm a vegetarian because I believe it's better for my health and personal well-being, BUT, I'm also aware that individual demands to consume animal flesh are probably the #1 threat to the Earth's environment, moreso than any gas-guzzling Hummer." Are you also a vegetarian when it comes to going down on a woman, or do you just eat the BUSH? :lol

Guru of Nothing
11-07-2004, 06:21 PM
"I'm a vegetarian because I believe it's better for my health and personal well-being, BUT, I'm also aware that individual demands to consume animal flesh are probably the #1 threat to the Earth's environment, moreso than any gas-guzzling Hummer." Are you also a vegetarian when it comes to going down on a woman, or do you just eat the BUSH? :lol

I don't inhale.

Das Texan
11-07-2004, 06:59 PM
for as many job losses that you would see in the old energy industry...


just as many would be created using renewable sources of energy.

ChumpDumper
11-07-2004, 07:17 PM
Don't worry, when the oil runs out we'll all lose our jobs.

whottt
11-07-2004, 11:33 PM
Ok...IMO, Bush's stance on the environment is indefensible...although Kerry and even Gore wouldn't have been much better. This issue is one in which I reside firmly on the left...

But the Kyoto treaty in it's current form is going to fuck up our economy and strengthen Europe's. That's exactly what it's designed to do. Not only will it cost jobs but we'll also have to pay other countries money to get their air rights...while Europe gets a free pass, because the polution ceiling is well over what collective Europe and the rest of the world, is producing. Plus If we sign it in it's current form there is no way we will be able to adhere to it.

Allegedly the Bushadmin has an initiative to meet the standards of the Kyoto protoc in a way that we can do so without a negative economic impact. I don't really have a lot of faith in that initiative though. In any case, Global warming isn't the Bushadmins fault.

Global warming is pretty much overlbown anyway...I remember when I was kid all the scientists were saying there was a second iceage coming...it wasn't that long ago.

But I can't believe you guys haven't heard the theory about the primary cause of global warming being cowfarts....

Ask one of the New Zealanders on the board...they have a cowfart tax there...

SpursWoman
11-07-2004, 11:45 PM
Cow farts? What.....the................................fuck?! ?


A cow fart tax?



:lmao :lmao :lol :rollin

whottt
11-07-2004, 11:56 PM
Yeah, I am serious and regulating cowfart emissions is part of the Kyoto treaty.

I think actually think quite a few countries that signed the treaty are now taxing their citizens that own cattle based on cowfart emissions.

I'll see what I can find...and I'm serious there is popular theory right now that the leading cause of greenhouse gasses in the world is cowfarts. LOL.

whottt
11-08-2004, 12:01 AM
Here ya go...and they are being taxed on cowfarts because their countries signed on to the Kyoto treaty....See...that treaty is designed to screw us up, we have ton of fucking cows here...and they wanted the Russians to sign it to pressure us into signing it...even though the Russians don't need to sign it because they don't produce many greenhouse gasses...

And that in itself is funny because I went to Russia about 5 years ago and while they may not produce the most greenhouse gasses, they definitely have the most fucking greenhouses, they are every where in Russia, I mean everhwere you look there's a greenhouse....they use them to grow their food in the cold. Isn't it ironic....all those greenhouses but no gas...maybe we should sell them some of our green house gasses to improve their greenhouse performance :)

whottt
11-08-2004, 12:03 AM
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0620-06.htm New Zealand 'Fart Tax' Causes a Stink


WELLINGTON - New Zealand farmers are being asked to cough up NZ$8.4 million (2.9 million pounds) a year to help reduce greenhouse effects caused by flatulence of their millions of sheep and cattle -- and they say the plan stinks.


A 'fart tax' is to be imposed on New Zealand's livestock, such as these cattle near Queenstown, to help combat global warming. (AFP/File)

Last year New Zealand signed up to the Kyoto Protocol (news - web sites) on global warming (news - web sites) and agreed to reduce production of greenhouse gases which are suspected of being a major cause of climate change.

Now the government plans to introduce a tax to help pay for research into livestock emissions of methane and nitrous oxide, which account for more than half of the country's greenhouse gases.

But farmers argue that reducing greenhouse gas emissions benefits everyone so the costs should be spread across all taxpayers.

"This decision is yet another example of the government's desire to act in the wider public interest but expecting rural New Zealand to pay for its largesse," Federated Farmers President Tom Lambie said.

Most of the livestock emissions come from the methane-rich burps of cows and sheep.

On current livestock numbers of around 46 million sheep and nine million cows, the levy will cost farmers around nine cents a sheep a year, and around 72 cents per cow.

Deer and goats will also be taxed, but pigs and poultry -- paltry contributors to greenhouse emissions by comparison -- are exempted.

SpursWoman
11-08-2004, 12:05 AM
Well, if that's the case...instead of all of these treaties n'shit, just change their diet or something...

:lol


or add a little of this to their irrigation systems...

http://a1468.g.akamai.net/f/1468/580/1d/pics.drugstore.com/prodimg/10449/200.jpg

MannyIsGod
11-08-2004, 04:14 PM
Actually Whott, I'm with you on the origional version of Kyoto, but after all of the amending and fucking around with it, it woudln't have hurt us very much at all. By the same token it is not an earth saving treaty by any means.

Drachen
11-08-2004, 04:21 PM
I'm no philosophy wiz, but I think most knocks against Bush (or any other administration) and the environment reek of solipsism.

Threats to the environment are purely the outcome of the consumer demands, with a minor exception here and there, I guess.

I'm a vegetarian because I believe it's better for my health and personal well-being, BUT, I'm also aware that individual demands to consume animal flesh are probably the #1 threat to the Earth's environment, moreso than any gas-guzzling Hummer.

To those who wish to eat meat, all I can say is bon appetit; but if you want to eat meat AND bitch about "the environment," then I say, STFU.


What do you know



Your the GURU of Nothing!
:lol