Depressed Democrat commits suicide at Ground Zero

[whottt]

Newsday (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/nyc-suic1107,0,2157220,print.story?coll=ny-nynews-headlines)






BY ROCCO PARASCANDOLA, DEBORAH MORRIS AND SEAN GARDINER
Staff Writers

November 6, 2004, 7:11 PM EST

Distraught over the re-election of President George W. Bush, a Georgia man traveled to New York City, went to Ground Zero and killed himself with a shotgun blast, police said yesterday.

The suicide victim, Andrew Veal, 25, was discovered just before 8 a.m. yesterday when a worker for the Millennium Hotel looking at Ground Zero from an upper floor saw a man lying atop the concrete structure through which the 1 and 9 subway lines run.

The worker, thinking the man was sleeping, alerted colleagues and the Port Authority police were notified.

But when they got to Veal's body, they realized he had killed himself with a shot to the head from a .12-gauge shotgun.

No suicide note was found, but according to a Port Authority police source, family members said Veal, a registered Democrat, was despondent over Bush's defeat of Sen. John Kerry. A second source said Veal, who lived in Athens, Ga., and worked for the University of Georgia, was also adamantly opposed to the war in Iraq.

More than three years after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, Ground Zero remains a top tourist attraction, the site rife with symbolism.

Visitors there yesterday reacted in different ways to news of Veal's suicide. Bobbie Jensen, 54, a Republican from Phoenix, said that while she understood how Bush's victory disturbed those who dislike him, Ground Zero is not the place to act on those emotions.

"You can be upset about the war, about Bush, but this is a sacred place," she said. "You got to accept what happened and not kill yourself." But Frank Franca, an East Village artist and registered Democrat, suggested the suicide was symbolic.

"I'm very moved by it," he said. "Obviously, this person was devastated. I can see why he would come here."

Franca's friend, Jeffim Kuznetsov, a 25-year-old student from Russia who lives in Atlanta, said the suicide is evidence of how deeply many Americans were affected by Kerry's defeat.

"It's a national tragedy," he said. "This election is devastating to all who believe in democracy."

Another visitor to Ground Zero, Arushi Raval, 34, a businesswoman who lives in Chelsea, said Veal might have been active in campaigning for Kerry, only to taste defeat.

"Maybe he felt ineffective," she said of the victim. "You feel ineffective if you tried and it all failed.

"I know so many New Yorkers who are depressed over this."

[whottt]

Geeez. It's not like we re-elected Carter.

[whottt]

This blood is directly on Michael Moore's hands...and no doubt he is planning on making a few hunded million off this guys death...no doubt the thought has crossed his mind.

This poor fool got caught up in all the huge BS propaganda...I'm telling you, the left went too far in trying to get Bush out of office.

This Oil bullshit is a joke every fucking Politician in Washington has Oil interests...including John Kerry.

[Nbadan]

Nice. Use a guys death for warped view of the left.

Let's review for a second. It was the Republicans led by Karl Rove who disgraced not one, but two highly decorated war veterans for political means. Men who served their country and didn't hide from their responsibilities to their nation.

It was the Republicans who used an issue - the anti-gay referendum, to drive their 'holy warriors' to the ballet boxes in swing states even though the administration knew that these state referendums have little chance of surviving a Supreme court challenge. Then W flip-flops by saying he supports 'civil unions' for same sex couples.

It was the Republicans who used every means possible, some legal, but most not to suppress the vote of the opposition in the Presidential election. Provisional, absentee, and 'spoilage' ballots weren't even counted before a Presidential winner was announced. The final count in New Mexico and Iowa could still go Kerry if we counted all the votes, forcing the Senate and Congress to appoint W President once again. We can't have that, so we'll call the states for Bush even though we're still counting absentee ballots and provisional ballots won't be counted for another week.

[whottt]

Prove it.

[Nbadan]

November 5, 2004

The Honorable David M. Walker
Comptroller General of the United States
U.S. General Accountability Office
441 G Street, NW
Washington, DC 20548

Dear Mr. Walker:

We write with an urgent request that the Government Accountability Office immediately undertake an investigation of the efficacy of voting machines and new technologies used in the 2004 election, how election officials responded to difficulties they encountered and what we can do in the future to improve our election systems and administration.

In particular, we are extremely troubled by the following reports, which we would also request that you review and evaluate for us:

In Columbus, Ohio, an electronic voting system gave President Bush nearly 4,000 extra votes. "Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes," Associated Press, November 5.

An electronic tally of a South Florida gambling ballot initiative failed to record thousands of votes. "South Florida OKs Slot Machines Proposal," Id.

In one North Carolina county, more than 4,500 votes were lost because officials mistakenly believed a computer that stored ballots could hold more data that it did. "Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes," Id.

In San Francisco, a glitch occurred with voting machines software that resulted in some votes being left uncounted. Id.

In Florida, there was a substantial drop off in Democratic votes in proportion to voter registration in counties utilizing optical scan machines that was apparently not present in counties using other mechanisms. http://ustogether.org/election04/florida_vote_patt.htm

The House Judiciary Committee Democratic staff has received numerous reports from Youngstown, Ohio that voters who attempted to cast a vote for John Kerry on electronic voting machines saw that their votes were instead recorded as votes for George W. Bush. In South Florida, Congressman Wexler's staff received numerous reports from voters in Palm Beach, Broward and Dade Counties that they attempted to select John Kerry but George Bush appeared on the screen. CNN has reported that a dozen voters in six states, particularly Democrats in Florida, reported similar problems. This was among over one thousand such problems reported. "Touchscreen Voting Problems Reported," Associated Press, November 5.

Excessively long lines were a frequent problem throughout the nation in Democratic precincts, particularly in Florida and Ohio. In one Ohio voting precinct serving students from Kenyon College, some voters were required to wait more than eight hours to vote. "All Eyes on Ohio," Dan Lothian, CNN, November 3, http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/blog/1...blog/index... ..

We are literally receiving additional reports every minute and will transmit additional information as it comes available. The essence of democracy is the confidence of the electorate in the accuracy of voting methods and the fairness of voting procedures. In 2000, that confidence suffered terribly, and we fear that such a blow to our democracy may have occurred in 2004.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this inquiry.

Sincerely,

John Conyers, Jr. / Jerrold Nadler / Robert Wexler
Ranking Member / Ranking Member / Member of Congress
House Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on the Constitution

cc: Hon. F. James Sensenbrenner
Chairman

[whottt]

What an idiot, they are writing the people that threw the election in the first place.

Damn, sucks to be you, I don't guess we'll be seeing another Democrat President elected, ever. Bwahahaha we knew you dumbasses would go for the Electronic Machines. You might as well be movin on.

And BTW, Clinton appointee who was once the head of Aurther Andersen LLP?

LMAO that's a good one. LOL. He and Bush go waaaaaaaaay back :)

[whottt]

The really funny part is that these 3 Democrats just fucked themselves on getting re-elected lmao...we control the horizontal, we control the vertical.
Bitch.

Tsk tsk they really shouldn't have done this...no wonder Democrats in congress are becoming an endangered spieces...with the next alteration of the Patriot Act the Democratic party will be done like a mofo :fro

And just wait till you see Rudy pull 90% of the vote in California in 4 years :smokin

Hey why do you suppose none of the other 50 members and 20 Democrats signed? I know why the Republicans didn't...I guess those other crats were just bought.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm glad hootie and everyone else interviewed knew this guy so well they can tell us exactly what he was thinking and why he killed himself. He's a psychic psychiatrist!

[whottt]

Dump...learn to read.

[ChumpDumper]

I read it -- you told us why the guy killed himself and what Moore was going to do about it.

Bravo.

[SpursWoman]

I'd be willing to bet this kid had deeper-seeded emotional problems that went a little further beyond who was or wasn't elected President.


Sad, though...regardless.

[whottt]

I read it -- you told us why the guy killed himself and what Moore was going to do about it.

Bravo.

Actually I didn't tell us why the guy killed himself, the article did and I expounded upon it. IF you could reason and weren't a shithead the logic follows that if he killed himself over who was elected President, then he must have bought into the hype and lies...and who belched out the most of those? Michael Moore. So stick it Chump!

[ChumpDumper]

So you just go along with anything you read?

Or only when it provides an excuse for your ignorance and pettiness?

You can't say why this guy killed himself, but you can't wait to use his corpse as a political football. Why do you take so much glee in an American's death?

Hypocrite.

[SpursWoman]

And I don't think it's entirely inconceivable that with the maniacal level of hate the left has generated towards Bush over the last couple of years, a lot of which born of propoganda and half-truths, that that *monster* could have been at least partially responsible.

But still, there's definitely something above the election there. I mean, with the hours and hours devoted to the cutting-and-pasting of extreme left conspiracy theories from various hate-perpetuating spin machines, I'd half expected Dan to be hanging from a rod somewhere. (I certainly wouldn't have been glad to hear it, btw.)

[whottt]

So you just go along with anything you read?

Depends on if it's something I want to go along with.



Or only when it provides an excuse for your ignorance and pettiness?

Oh shut the fuck up you take digs all the time. And I never act in ignorance.




You can't say why this guy killed himself, but you can't wait to use his corpse as a political football.

I can expound on why the man's family believe he killed himself..call it a hunch but I figure they have more insight than you...Dump!

And hey, the crats have shown me that nothing is offlimits...it takes a lot of audacity for a liberal to talk about someone politicizing deaths. That's all you guys have done for the past 4 years.



Why do you take so much glee in an American's death?

Hypocrite.

Feeling a bit bitchy today are we? Show me where I take glee at this mans death...I felt shocked and was quite sombre about it and was drawing conclusions(heaven forbid someone have an opinion you opressive fuck) until Dan upchucked a dumbass conspiracy, which in your usual cunt manner you managed to totally ignore.

[ChumpDumper]

Your glee is self-evident. Maybe you've just managed to delude yourself completely, but you don't fool us. Keep kicking the corpse.

And as for politicizing deaths -- I simply believe that Americans have the right to know exactly what war means and its consequences. If seeing flag-draped coffins gives one pause -- well shouldn't it? Why censor truth? Soldiers' deaths, Iraqi deaths and this guys death have all happened. They are fact. Why get bent out of shape when they are reported? The spin is where things get disgusting, as you have proven here.

[whottt]

No Chump, you're just a Nazi and a deathgleer accuser.

[ChumpDumper]

And you're a hypocritical coward. At least have the balls to admit you're kicking the corpse.

[whottt]

Why? You've already made your judgement so it doesn't really matter what I say. Nazi.

[ChumpDumper]

Aw, hootie's widdle feewings are hurt. Bring your sac next time if you have one.

[IcemanCometh]

http://www.e-thug.net/pics/roflcopter.gif

[whottt]

Aw, hootie's widdle feewings are hurt. Bring your sac next time if you have one.

Ok Nazi.

[dcole50]

I'd be willing to bet this kid had deeper-seeded emotional problems that went a little further beyond who was or wasn't elected President.


Sad, though...regardless.Bingo. This could not have been his only reason. It seems likely to me that he had some mental and emotional problemsn and listed Bush as a reason perhaps to get more attention that he didn't get in his life. I'm jumping to a lot of conclusions, but it doesn't seem logical that the election was the only factor.

Furthermore, as much as I dislike Michael Moore, the guy is just a film maker. I don't see how you can say he has blood on his hands. It sounds to me very much like the ridiculous argument people make that music and video games influence suicides.

[whottt]

And I don't think it's entirely inconceivable that with the maniacal level of hate the left has generated towards Bush over the last couple of years, a lot of which born of propoganda and half-truths, that that *monster* could have been at least partially responsible.

But still, there's definitely something above the election there. I mean, with the hours and hours devoted to the cutting-and-pasting of extreme left conspiracy theories from various hate-perpetuating spin machines, I'd half expected Dan to be hanging from a rod somewhere. (I certainly wouldn't have been glad to hear it, btw.)


The thing is, a lot of people will say that saying this guy committed suicide because of excessive propaganda is like blaming TV for the acts of violence by some children...but Michael Moore presented his proven lies and blatant left wing anti-Bush propganda as non fiction documentary...and the major news outlets let him get away with it for political reasons.

A lot of people do believe that film is real. Even on this board...Just about every liberal on this board has mentioned what happened with the Bin Laden family after 911...and the way Moore presents what happened is total fabrication.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Let's review for a second. It was the Republicans led by Karl Rove who disgraced not one, but two highly decorated war veterans for political means. Men who served their country and didn't hide from their responsibilities to their nation.


Yeah the Republicans are evil, but it was perfectly legit for Kerry and his people to trash the 200+ swift boat vets and POWs who stood up against Kerry. Pot, meet kettle.




It was the Republicans who used an issue - the anti-gay referendum, to drive their 'holy warriors' to the ballet boxes in swing states even though the administration knew that these state referendums have little chance of surviving a Supreme court challenge. Then W flip-flops by saying he supports 'civil unions' for same sex couples.

In the same vein, the Demos used an issue - the war in Iraq to drive their "anti-war pacifists" to get out and vote for Bush even though their bitching and moaning is going to have little chance of deterring our determination for establishing Democracy in Iraq.

Serious, quit being such a clown and admit it's over.

It's like you're outraged that those who aren't in favor of gay unions actually got out and voted. I guess the right of everyone to vote only applies to those who are going to vote for Kerry, right?

[JFK]

damn, poor guy. that is terrible thing to hear.

[exstatic]

And I don't think it's entirely inconceivable that with the maniacal level of hate the left has generated towards Bush over the last couple of years, a lot of which born of propoganda and half-truths, that that *monster* could have been at least partially responsible.

You act like they invented this shit. It was crafted by a little known GOP backbencher named Newt Gingrich when the GOP was the minority party, and perfected by the goons driving Ken Starr. Don't be indignant when what goes around comes around.

[whottt]

You act like they invented this shit. It was crafted by a little known GOP backbencher named Newt Gingrich when the GOP was the minority party, and perfected by the goons driving Ken Starr. Don't be indignant when what goes around comes around.

You don't get it...no one supported the exteme right wingers like Ginghrich and Buchannan...the Republicans disowned them.

[SpursWoman]

You act like they invented this shit. It was crafted by a little known GOP backbencher named Newt Gingrich when the GOP was the minority party, and perfected by the goons driving Ken Starr. Don't be indignant when what goes around comes around.


NO I DIDN'T ACT LIKE THEY INVENTED THIS SHIT. But I really would seriously doubt that 25 year old gave a fuck about politics when Newt etc. was up to their own antics.

I was talking about THAT kid in the CURRENT time frame. Sorry I missed all of the GOP suicides when the democrats were in the White House.

And if you had read what I actually said, I said it wasn't inconceivable, but I doubt that was the only thing, if at all, that drove him to do what he did. And that it was sad, whatever the reason.

[Sec24Row7]

First thing that came to mind when I saw this was...

Well thats one less vote.

What a dumbass.

Permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Anyone that commits suicide for any reason other than unbearable pain or illness is a selfish prick.

[SpursWoman]

Anyone that commits suicide for any reason other than unbearable pain or illness is a selfish prick

Reminds me of one of my favorite Staind songs....


WELL FUCK THEM
AND FUCK HER
AND FUCK HIM
AND FUCK YOU
For not having
The strength in your heart
To pull through
I've had doubts
I have failed
I've fucked up
I've had plans
Doesn't mean
I should take
My Life
With my own hands

But these words
They can't repace
The life you...
...the life you waste

[samikeyp]

im sorry, if you are so fucked up that the outcome of an election, then you were fucked up before that election.