2006 Thread: Spurs Pass on Corey Maggette

[timvp]

Maggette deal unlikely: Spurs officials have spoken with the Los Angeles Clippers about forward Corey Maggette, but one NBA source said Saturday a trade between the teams likely "won't happen."

Maggette is a talented swingman and the Spurs could benefit from adding some athleticism to their aging roster. But Maggette also has frustrated his current and former coaches with his reluctance to defend and play a role — both of which the Spurs would ask him to do.

In addition, one Spurs official said Maggette — who has asked to be traded — would likely get fewer minutes with them than the 26.3 he's averaging with the Clippers this season.

The Clippers would be intrigued by an offer of Brent Barry and Beno Udrih, but the Spurs consider it too risky to part with two of their best ball-handlers. Some Spurs officials also are extremely hesitant to include Barry in any type of deal for Maggette given that Barry has been the team's most dependable reserve while ranking second in the league in 3-point accuracy.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA123106.01C.BKNspurs.duncan.297d6a8.html


Are you freaking serious? :madrun

[Kori Ellis]

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao

Barry better keep up his torrid shooting pace and Beno better become useful.

[timvp]

How do you not trade two guys who suck in the playoffs for a guy who could possibly start and solve the rebounding problem? Yeah, Maggette has baggage but this is why Pop makes the big bucks. Bring him in and get him to play a role.

At worst he becomes the Spurs' second best rebounder and he'll get to the line more than anyone on the team.

This is an awesome chance to buy low and sell high.

:pctoss

[leon]

I won't agree a trade of both Barry and Udrih for defense-relunctant Maggette

[Kori Ellis]

I said in another thread about it that I doubted the Spurs would deal both Barry/Beno in a deal unless they were getting a PG back. I guess that's the case.

[timvp]

I won't agree a trade of both Barry and Udrih for defense-relunctant Maggette

Like Barry or Beno are shut down defenders themselves :rollin

[rayray2k8]

Maybe they didnt want him b/c he wanted #50.
But having him would of been nice.

[itzsoweezee]

i'd rather have barry. the spurs' reasoning is pretty silly though, considering they don't even play brent half the game.

[Leetonidas]

Barry's shooting has been very needed this season...not sure if Brent would be the guy I trade, but Beno yeah, although I don't like the idea of having Jaque Vaughn as our only backup PG.

[E20]

I wouldn't include Brent. He's playing really well this year and I think he'll keep it up. I'd gear more towards the trade if Finley + Beno were in it.

I also agree with the news post. Maggette wants more minutes and an active role, but I don't think he'll get that role here with Manu, Tony, and Tim. If we give away Brent, we'll be getting the almost the same thing minus the ball handling and who knows if Maggette will shoot lights out ala Brent this season. Also, keep in mind team chemistry.

Also, Barry shooting at %54 from the field -- his main gun is his jumper. That stat stands for itself.

[IcemanCometh]

jesus fucking christ

[Leetonidas]

But look, he doesn't want to play a role, doesn't want to play defense, and he would get less minutes here than there. What would be the point of this trade? He would demand another one.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Nnnnnoooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kobe_bryant]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[timvp]

But look, he doesn't want to play a role, doesn't want to play defense, and he would get less minutes here than there. What would be the point of this trade? He would demand another one.

Once upon a time Stephen Jackson didn't want to play a role or defend. This is why coaches are paid the big bucks.

When else could you get a guy who a couple seasons ago averaged 22 points, went to the line as much as David Robinson in his prime and averaged more rebounds than anyone on this team outside of Tim Duncan? He did all that as a shooting guard.

And he's still just 27 years old and only has a couple years left on his contract.

[Leetonidas]

Once upon a time Stephen Jackson didn't want to play a role or defend. This is why coaches are paid the big bucks.

We don't have Mike Brown anymore. :lol

[Solid D]

It couldn't be money could it? Maggette is making $7M this year, $7.8M next yr. with a "Player" option for the following year at $8.4M. That's really only $1-2M per yr. over their commitments with Barry and Udrih. I wonder if the player option (as opposed to team option) bothers Holt.

[ashbeeigh]

:madrun

But I see the Spurs point of view, although I was pulling for Magette.

[timvp]

+/- stats from last year's playoffs
M. Ginobili +75
T. Duncan +55
T. Parker +28
B. Udrih +24
B. Bowen +23
R. Nesterovic +15
F. Oberto +5
M. Finley -4
R. Horry -5
N. Mohammed -8
N. Van Exel -9
B. Barry -54 :rollin

So the Spurs don't trade away the player who was by far the worst on the team in last year's playoffs because they are worried about defense?

:shootme

[Leetonidas]

Beno was +24? WTF...

Well I'm guessing that was probably only because he played sparingly.

[E20]

Once upon a time Stephen Jackson didn't want to play a role or defend. This is why coaches are paid the big bucks.

When else could you get a guy who a couple seasons ago averaged 22 points, went to the line as much as David Robinson in his prime and averaged more rebounds than anyone on this team outside of Tim Duncan? He did all that as a shooting guard.

And he's still just 27 years old and only has a couple years left on his contract.
Would you think Pop would mix up chemistry like that? I think his main goal is to win a championship NOW. Mixing in a guly like Maggette will take time to adjust. Also, with the Spurs state of affairs Pop needs to worry about the teams current level of desire/intensity and how badly they want it. Maggette might help out in the future, but I don't think his addition will get us a 'ship this year.

[wildbill2u]

How do you not trade two guys who suck in the playoffs for a guy who could possibly start and solve the rebounding problem? Yeah, Maggette has baggage but this is why Pop makes the big bucks. Bring him in and get him to play a role.

At worst he becomes the Spurs' second best rebounder and he'll get to the line more than anyone on the team.

This is an awesome chance to buy low and sell high. :pctoss
But...but...you're the guy who says our defense sucks. Maggette won't help that and brings a bad attitude about minutes. Be consistent

[regio]

That sucks. Maggette >>>> Barry + Beno

[timvp]

But...but...you're the guy who says our defense sucks. Maggette won't help that and brings a bad attitude about minutes. Be consistent

Barry and Beno are the Spurs' two worst defenders. Maggette's ability to rebound would help the defense even if he played Barry level defense.

[Kori Ellis]

But...but...you're the guy who says our defense sucks. Maggette won't help that and brings a bad attitude about minutes. Be consistent

He brings much needed rebounding. I don't think he has a bad attitude, he just doesn't get along with Dunleavy.

[regio]

Isn't easier to get a backup point guard as "good" as beno than it is to get a guy like Maggette? Losing him shouldn't stop the spurs from trading for him :madrun

[Kori Ellis]

Oh well. This report is from an "NBA source" so we'll see how it all pans out. NBA sources were claiming that the Maggette/Artest deal was done last week and it wasn't even close. I understand the Spurs hesitancy because of the PG situation, though I'd like Maggette here.

[Bob Lanier]

Maggette was horrible in last year's playoffs. His awful screen-roll defense, turnovers, and 3-ball chucking were significant reasons the Clippers lost to Phoenix.

Not that he wouldn't help the Spurs, but he's very capable of making a Beno-level impact on a playoff game.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

CIA....

[timvp]

Maggette was horrible in last year's playoffs.

16 points and 8 rebounds in 24 minutes per game on 47% is horrible? And a +/- of +32 ... which was one of the best numbers on the team and better than Brand and Cassell.

I'll take those horrible numbers.

[regio]

Pop should take the risk and get maggette it's not like barry and beno would save us if parker got injured during the playoffs.

[Bob Lanier]

+32 ... that equates to Beno, Rasho, and Horry's performances put together?

I didn't say that he didn't put up nice numbers, nor that he would not help the Spurs - particularly in rebounding. What I implied was that he has a tendency to make a lot of stupid decisions that can cost his team dearly when execution becomes vital to a team's success.

[dg7md]

CIA....

Very true, this could be a false report, you know they often deny that things will be done until the last minute.

Anyway, Maggette would have been a fantastic addition, but Pietrus would be probably more proficient if they were going after a player similiar to Maggette, and cheaper.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The Spurs FO should grow a pair and make the fuckin trade. :pctoss Why not do it? He may play less than average defense but Barry and Beno did too. Maggette replaces Barry who is totally absent when it comes to playoff time. Beno never got minutes here because he doesn't bring to the table what we need of him. Vaughn has been here for 2 months and has already produced more than what he did the past this year and last year put together. Vaughn can play backup PG and if he can't handle it, there's Manu to give maybe 5-10min a game at point guard. We won a championship without Tony playing at his normal rate. Now imagine playoff Duncan, Manu, Finley, AND Maggette? There's a championship right there.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Where's chow jonathan when you need him?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If they don't make this trade they are fucking idiots. Period. TPark and anyone else can lecture me about the 'experience' and 'knowledge' of Pop, but if he passes on this deal he's a fucking dumbass.

:pctoss

You make this deal and you've got a core of TD, TP, Manu, and Maggette for the rest of the Duncan era.

And as much as Pop is apparently in love with small ball, Corey would be perfect for his stupid ass small ball in the four spot.

[dg7md]

Maybe they'll pass on Maggette but get someone just as good, who isn't making splashes about him wanting to be traded. As I said, like Pietrus or Childress maybe.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Gerald Wallace

[Solid D]

Where's chow jonathan when you need him?

:lol working the phones.

[timvp]

It couldn't be money could it? Maggette is making $7M this year, $7.8M next yr. with a "Player" option for the following year at $8.4M. That's really only $1-2M per yr. over their commitments with Barry and Udrih. I wonder if the player option (as opposed to team option) bothers Holt.

It shouldn't be about the money. Maggette will no doubt opt out of his contract. He'll be 29 and will be in line for one final payday. It'd be too risky for him to play out that final year.

But know the Holt Spurs, it could very well be about money.

[Kori Ellis]

It couldn't be money could it? Maggette is making $7M this year, $7.8M next yr. with a "Player" option for the following year at $8.4M. That's really only $1-2M per yr. over their commitments with Barry and Udrih. I wonder if the player option (as opposed to team option) bothers Holt.


We can't have that player option year. It ruins the plan for getting Dwight Howard in the summer of '08. :downspin:

[T Park]

If this trade isn't made, then this will be as big a fuck up pass up as passing on Anderson Cummings and whoever for Barkley.

[regio]

Getting maggette would mean not playing manu as much as a shooting guard which means he could play the point when parker is in the bench. Manu as a point guard is better than beno

[timvp]

Getting maggette would mean not playing manu as much as a shooting guard which means he could play the point when parker is the bench. Manu as a point guard is better than beno

Stop with the sound logic.

The Spurs need to keep their worst playoff performers and their worst defenders because they are willing to play a role.

:santahat

[ambchang]

I highly doubt that the Clippers would take Barry + Udrih over Artest. This doesn't even make sense.

[regio]

Stop with the sound logic.

The Spurs need to keep their worst playoff performers and their worst defenders because they are willing to play a role.

:santahat
:lol :lol :lol

[timvp]

I highly doubt that the Clippers would take Barry + Udrih over Artest. This doesn't even make sense.

Artest was never offered for Maggette. That's who the Clippers wanted.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

We can't have that player option year. It ruins the plan for getting Dwight Howard in the summer of '08. :downspin:
Isn't Omeka Okafor a free agent that year too?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I guess the Spurs feel they need to keep up with the Jazz, because it's the only reason to keep around two white boys who disappear in the playoffs over getting a guy like Maggette. Weak.

[T Park]

Why anyone thinks Barry is needed for the playoffs, is beyond me.

[Kori Ellis]

Isn't Omeka Okafor a free agent that year too?

Yes.

I am sort of joking, but it's been obvious for quite some time that the Spurs have been intentionally not taking on contracts that extend into '08-'09.

[timvp]

The reason Mike Dunleavy, Sr. hates Maggette goes back to Maggette's days at Duke. Maggette promised Coach K that he'd stay in school until at least his sophomore year. But Maggette left after his freshman year and ever since the feeling at Duke is that Maggette is the one who "ruined" the notion that Duke players stay in school.

And Dunleavy somehow became the world's biggest Duke homer after his son attended the school.

[Slinkyman]

I can't believe a spurs official claims maggette would get less then 26 mpg here, i know for a fact Pop would play him at least 30 minutes a game at PF! Small Ball Part Deux!

[T Park]

Im praying this is a CIA effort to get a PG thrown in.

Daniel Ewing isn't worse than Beno, is he?

[timvp]

I can't believe a spurs official claims maggette would get less then 26 mpg here, i know for a fact Pop would play him at least 30 minutes a game at PF! Small Ball Part Deux!

At least Maggette could survive at PF. You'd think small ball Pop would be all over this.

[dg7md]

I highly doubt that the Clippers would take Barry + Udrih over Artest. This doesn't even make sense.

Who the hell wants Artest now? If your team gets him he'll just be traded again. Artest is a cancer for teams.

Barry and Beno can shoot, Barry is one of the smartest NBA players with one of, if not the, best shot in the league.

Spurs don't need Maggette, but they do need someone similiar, the infamous long 3. Gerald Wallace seems to found his spot in Charlotte so I doubt he's gone from the Bobcats, but someone like Childress just seems to be in no man's land, and he'd be a good fit, no, a great fit.

[T Park]

Come on Spurs, have second thoughts for the love of god....

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Hopefully this is the same source that said Artest deal was pretty much done and the spurs actually do this trade.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

someone like Childress just seems to be in no man's land

Um, yeah, and all it would take to get Josh out of Atlanta is one of Manu, TD, or TP.

Wake up people. As much as this forum floats scrubs for studs trade ideas all the damn time, you think people would be all over a deal like this that actually sends out two scrubs and gets us back a stud.

[Bob Lanier]

But Maggette left after his freshman year and ever since the feeling at Duke is that Maggette is the one who "ruined" the notion that Duke players stay in school.

And Dunleavy somehow became the world's biggest Duke homer after his son attended the school.
I'm coming around on Maggette.

[Spurminator]

There has to be more to it than this. There just has to be.

[Buddy Holly]

Beno + Barry

for

Maggette + Ewing

B&B for the Duke Brothers.

My opinion is that the Spurs are up to something, even if the article says otherwise.

[T Park]

The Spurs can't be serious.

You get rid of two of your worst defenders, and you get back a physical big wing, that is agressive and takes it to the rack like Manu, and rebounds, and CAN play defense.


Theres just got to be a CIA explanation.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Beno + Barry

for

Maggette + Ewing

B&B for the Duke Brothers.

My opinion is that the Spurs are up to something, even if the article says otherwise.
That trade works, and that's what the clips want. I also think the spurs are probably up to something as well.

[TwoHandJam]

The Clippers must be pretty desperate if there's a grain of truth to this story but yeah, this is a no-brainer if its true. Beno doesn't even play anymore and when he does he's too inconsistent. I just don't trust Beno in the playoffs and I don't think Pop does either so why are we still screwing around with him.

I'd hate to see Barry go because he's finally playing the type of ball we knew he was capable of playing with the Spurs but Maggette would still bring more to the table:

Ranks #1 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts Per 48 Minutes(13.1)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Free Throws Per 48 Minutes(10.8)
Ranks #12 in the NBA in Free Throws(160.0)
Ranks #15 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts(194.0)

He gets to the line an insane amount of times for a guard and that quality is great come playoff time. He also is getting 5.6 rebs/game in only 26min this season. We're so hurting for rebounding that he's almost worth it just for that.

Sure we'd lose a great shooter/ballhandler in Barry but giving Manu some of the minutes lost to Barry and cutting down some of Finley's minutes should make up for it. Beno doesn't even really count. Maggette's talents in boarding and getting to the ft line in tough games should pay dividends in the playoffs.

One thing that struck me about Maggette though is that he hasn't really played a full 82 game season healthy in his career. Is he a bit of a china doll?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Beno + Barry

for

Maggette + Ewing

B&B for the Duke Brothers.

My opinion is that the Spurs are up to something, even if the article says otherwise.
That would kick ass.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The Clipps are interested in Artest not Beano or Barry 2 crappy role players..

lay down the pipe...

Sacramento isn't interested in dealing with a division rival. Methinks you need to lay down the pipe.

Dunleavy wants Maggette gone. It'll happen, it's just a question of whether we're the beneficiary or not.

[timvp]

Is he a bit of a china doll?

Yeah he is. Most of it has to do with driving into the line so much. He takes a much bigger pounding than even Manu does. But that's one of the reasons you could get him for Brent Barry and change.

But yeah, his ability to get to the line and rebound are reasons enough to get him. Manu doesn't drive as much this year and Tony never really gets calls at the rim.

[MannyIsGod]

I just don't buy this. There is no fucking way Pop is hesitant to deal anyone on this team outside of the big three. There's just no fucking way. I mean com'on, Barry already had his bags packed last year and while his play has improved a great deal you can't tell me that Pop is more in love with 3 point shooting than defense and rebounding.

I don't buy into this story one bit. If for whatever reason it is true, then Pop and this front office have passed their prime and are sliding very quickly into Isiah territory. The trades you pass on that can make you a much better team are as bad as the ones you make that are busts.

I just can't belive this though. Pop wouldn't give two shits and a giggle about getting rid of Beno right now, so this amounts to Brent for Maggette. We have Finley and Bonner off the bench to hit 3s, so you can't tell me that Barry and his ball handling are holding this trade up. No fucking way.

It would be too ridiculous of a pass for me to believe it.

[Bruno]

It's quite surprising that Spurs aren't ready to trade Barry+Beno ofr Maggette. I can see 4 explanations :

- Spurs are dumb and they think that Barry will help them more than Maggette. I agree with timvp that a player like Maggette will really help Spurs. Tyronn Lue is a better rebounder than our starting SF. :spin

- Spurs are cheap and they don't want to take Maggette contract. the last year with a player option is maybe a problem for the 08 plan.

- Maggette agent has called Spurs to say that Maggette doesn't want to play for them or that he wants to start or that he wants guaranteed playtime or that he wants to have some offensive touchs.

- CIA : Spurs are working on a trade and they use their PR to try to raise Barry value and to discrease Maggette value.

[Mr. Body]

It's money. The Spurs are balking at paying $7-8M/yr for three years for a player who 1) whines and 2) gets hurt a lot. That's too much money for a risky investment. Also, this team's bench clearly works best when Barry and even Udrih are moving the ball around, which Maggette wouldn't do. If he weren't such a malcontent, was less expensive salary-wise, and heartier, they'd be less reluctant to pull the trigger. They aren't fantasizing about this guy as much as we are.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

for a player who 1) whines and 2) gets hurt a lot.
Isn't that Beno in a nutshell?

[timvp]

It's money. The Spurs are balking at paying $7-8M/yr for three years for a player who 1) whines and 2) gets hurt a lot. That's too much money for a risky investment.

Maggette is going to opt out of that final year guaranteed. So basically, the contract would end up being for the same amount as Barry + Beno.


Also, this team's bench clearly works best when Barry and even Udrih are moving the ball around, which Maggette wouldn't do.

Perhaps in the regular season but that dies in the playoffs. In the playoffs, Barry and Beno are almost worthless.

[Mr. Body]

I want Maggette too, but...

It's not guaranteed Maggette opts out of that last year of that contract. If the Spurs are all-fired to get cap room that year, they can't risk a good chunk of it disappearing (though they could always trade him).

Maggs isn't the long-term fix for anything. Not the way the Spurs seem to see it. He's not big and long. He's not known to be a good defender. He doesn't shoot from long range terribly well (and is plain terrible this year). Plus he whines (expensively) and he gets hurt a ton.

Getting him would mean less money to freely use in MLE and other deals this summer and going forward on Nocioni, Gerald Wallace, Pietrus, or others that might become available. If this report is true, they likely just don't see him fixing any specific roles (roles are terribly important for this team), and as a luxury item with a large price tag who would cost who may be, in Barry, their fourth best player so far this year (whose role is clearly defined).

I think it's money.

[ChumpDumper]

I'd do that trade then call up Will Conroy to fill the PG slot.

[SenorSpur]

I'd do that trade then call up Will Conroy to fill the PG slot.

.....in a heartbeat. And so should the FO.

[reydawg]

Are you ready for Maggette?

[bringBAKElie]

Vaugn has been decent and Manu could be a 3rd pg option, plus Manu is in the top 25 or so in 3-point field goal% so i dont think we would miss Barry that much

[MannyIsGod]

I'm a HUGE Barry fan and I do that trade. I just don't get it. I don't buy into this shit.

[lefty]

I don't want Magette ; yeah, we've had our ups (against good teams) and downs (against bad teams :wtf ) this seasons, but we'll be rolling after the Vegas week-end , not to mention the playoffs ;
let's just hope we stay healthy

[MannyIsGod]

I don't want Magette ; yeah, we've had our ups (against good teams) and downs (against bad teams :wtf ) this seasons, but we'll be rolling after the Vegas week-end , not to mention the playoffs ;
let's just hope we stay healthyI don't know what Spurs team you've been watching, but most of the downs have come against the good teams in this leauge and there havne't been that many ups against them.

[lefty]

Yeah, but winning in Dallas or destroying Utah recently VS losing at home against , ahem, Charlotte is kind of disturbing

[lefty]

And, despite our ups and downs, we are 2nd in the league
So, let's not panic

[timvp]

And, despite our ups and downs, we are 2nd in the league
So, let's not panic

Problem is the Spurs are more like the Dallas Mavericks in the Nellie ball era and the current Mavericks are more like the championship Spurs teams.

[lefty]

Problem is the Spurs are more like the Dallas Mavericks in the Nellie ball era and the Mavericks are more like the championship Spurs teams.

Yeah, really weird

I just hope we keep playing like we did against the Jazz ; I mean Spurs basketball : Priority on D, and good execution on offense

[timvp]

The Spurs need Maggette. The Spurs are on pace to shoot 1927 free throws this year. That's the second lowest amount in franchise history.

[lefty]

The Spurs need Maggette. The Spurs are on pace to shoot 1927 free throws this year. That's the second lowest amount in franchise history.

Yeah but to get, u must give
I like the team we have now

[Streakyshooter08]

I really don't get it. The Spurs lack rebounding -> Maggette helps; the Spurs don't go to the FT Line a lot> Maggette helps; the Spurs are pretty old-> Maggette helps... Barry played well this season but the question is if he can do it in the Playoffs as well. If you get a PG and Maggette back it would be strange if they don't do it...

Beno/ Barry fot Maggette/ Ewing??? DO. IT.

[MannyIsGod]

So you like the no rebounding, no defense, non foul drawing team we have right now? OK.

[Streakyshooter08]

I just found this on Realgm:

31st December, 2006 - 9:47 am
Boston Herald -
Even though trade discussions between the Kings and Clippers have apparently ended, Corey Maggette remains very available.

“The Clippers want to get rid of Maggette in the worst way,” said one league general manager. “And Artest had worn out his welcome in Sacramento halfway through last year. The thing that gets me is that Iverson gets a rap when you think about these two. At least Iverson goes out and tries to win for you every night.”


Do that trade. Damn... :pctoss

[ducks]

could the spurs be holding out for a draft pick?

[Bruno]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/la-sp-clippersrep31dec31,1,5553641.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba

Baylor says deal for Artest is dead
By Jason Reid, Times Staff Writer
December 31, 2006

Closing the door on a potential trade for Ron Artest, the Clippers are no longer pursuing a deal for the Sacramento Kings standout swingman, Clippers General Manager Elgin Baylor said Saturday.

"As far as anything goes with Ron Artest, that's a dead issue," Baylor said. "We're no longer talking to Sacramento about Artest … that's not going to happen."

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/la-sp-clippersrep31dec31,1,5553641.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba

Baylor says deal for Artest is dead
By Jason Reid, Times Staff Writer
December 31, 2006

Closing the door on a potential trade for Ron Artest, the Clippers are no longer pursuing a deal for the Sacramento Kings standout swingman, Clippers General Manager Elgin Baylor said Saturday.

"As far as anything goes with Ron Artest, that's a dead issue," Baylor said. "We're no longer talking to Sacramento about Artest … that's not going to happen."
:clap

[exstatic]

Um, yeah, and all it would take to get Josh out of Atlanta is one of Manu, TD, or TP.
...or waiting until summer '08. I'm actually not in love with Childress, but Josh Smith would be a coup as a small ball "four" and Bowen replacement, and they are NOT going to pay both of them, not with Mr. Cheap back in the driver's seat in ATL.

Getting Josh Smith or Okafor would be worth the wait, and you will ALL want Beno back the first time Maggette goes on IR because of a bad pedicure. Dunleavy is not the first coach he's battled with, nor is this the first team to dog his work ethic. 27 is pretty old to be considered someone who needs an attitude adjustment.

[samikeyp]

Of course if the Spurs were going after Maggette....Pop wouldn't tell anybody. I would do the Beno/Barry deal.

[spurschick]

Of course if the Spurs were going after Maggette....Pop wouldn't tell anybody.

My thoughts exactly. Since when do we put 100% stock into the blurbs we read in the Express-News?* There have been arguments for and against this trade, but we all realize that some kind of change needs to be made and we need to have faith that whatever happens will be for the best.

Now I'm going to take off the Pollyanna dress...
POP, FIND US A FUCKING DEPENDABLE BACKUP PG!!!!!!!












*No offense to JBlaze.

[samikeyp]

sorry...what? All I saw was "take off...dress"

:smokin

[SenorSpur]

I want Maggette too, but...

It's not guaranteed Maggette opts out of that last year of that contract. If the Spurs are all-fired to get cap room that year, they can't risk a good chunk of it disappearing (though they could always trade him).

Maggs isn't the long-term fix for anything. Not the way the Spurs seem to see it. He's not big and long. He's not known to be a good defender. He doesn't shoot from long range terribly well (and is plain terrible this year). Plus he whines (expensively) and he gets hurt a ton.

Getting him would mean less money to freely use in MLE and other deals this summer and going forward on Nocioni, Gerald Wallace, Pietrus, or others that might become available. If this report is true, they likely just don't see him fixing any specific roles (roles are terribly important for this team), and as a luxury item with a large price tag who would cost who may be, in Barry, their fourth best player so far this year (whose role is clearly defined).

I think it's money.

I would feel better about them passing on Maggette if I felt there was some realistic possibility they could land one of those expected FAs that you mentioned. Those guys may or may not become available and if they do become free there are no assurances the Spurs can and will land either of them.

We DO KNOW that Maggette is available and can be had RIGHT NOW. The Spurs would be big fools to pass up this guy. Perhaps he doesn't shoot the 3 like Barry, but he attacks the glass and is a relentless rebounder for his position. He gives them a skill set that they do not have on this entire roster and it would improve their overall talent level.

As far as minutes go, I could see him gobbling up minutes from Finley.

[Supergirl]

It makes sense they wouldn't bring him in if he won't play defense, because if he were to join, that's EXACTLY what they would need of him. Barry doesn't have to play D as much, that's not his role - he's there for offense, and that's what he's brought. But a long SF is needed on this team to help defend other teams' long SFs...so if Magette won't do that, they should pass. Pop has a good record with players who want to work hard - but players who don't (Magette, Devin Brown, etc) haven't worked out here.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He's not known to be a good defender.

There's lots of players the Spurs have brought in that this could be said about, and yet we taught them how to play defense, at least to the extent of fitting in our defensive system.



going forward on Nocioni, Gerald Wallace, Pietrus, or others that might become available.


None of those guys will become available. Chicago loves Nocioni and will lock him up. Same for GWall and Charlotte.

Pietrus, it remains to be seen what his value exactly will be, but even given the idea that GS won't want him anymore they will sign and trade.

Why can't anyone learn from this team's past? Every time we have cleared cap room to make a run at a free agent (see Jason Kidd, Jermaine O'Neal), it has blown up in our faces.

San Antonio just isn't a free agent destination for anyone but veterans in their twilights who have gotten paid and want to take one last run at a ring.

The Spurs, if they want to get back to a championship level, need to improve through trades. Clearing cap space for 2008 or any other time is just fool's gold, and if that's going to be the front office's game plan going forward everyone better just enjoy the regular season wins because this team won't win another title as is, and Tim Duncan will retire with three rings.

Which would be a pathetic failure for this front office.

Tim deserves better and the fans deserve better. This trade is a no brainer relative to what we have to give up to get a guy like Maggette.

Do people even pay attention to what happens in games, or just read what the Express News cheerleader staff has to say about things?

Bowen's starting to get lit up more and more this year, and you can get a guy like Maggette in here and coach him up to replace Bowen. He'd be perfect to D up guys like Bonzi and Lebron that are too strong for Bruce to deal with.

Not to mention he would help out on the glass and on the scoreboard.

As far as the concern that we lose two good ball handlers in Barry and Beno, that's a joke. Manu can play backup point and I have a hard time believing they can't find another quality backup point somewhere in the NBADL. Chump and others have already thrown out some names even.

If the front office passes on this deal, we will be looking back on it like we look back on trading Barbosa to Phoenix for cap room that we squandered - an abject failure by the front office.

[jman3000]

i don't know just what to make of this... on one hand you have our best 3 pnt shooter and a decent (if somewhat erratic) backup point. on the other you have a potential player who could solve multiple problems for you and age wise is at his prime. i'd say do it and put tony in a bubble after every game. corey's big body, while not necessarily tall is very wide and could help us tremendously when it comes to 'bounds. he has also produced a couple of 20 pnt avg seasons and having a dependable scorer, not necessarily shooter, but scorer could prove invaluable when we get hit by the injury bug again (it's inevitable).

[carib]

I said in another thread about it that I doubted the Spurs would deal both Barry/Beno in a deal unless they were getting a PG back. I guess that's the case.


Kori, I will be nice

Like I said if it's not broken lets ride out the season with it.

I have a good feeling that the team we currently have is jelling better, and they are faster when the right 5 are on the court.

So it will be good if we look and changes next season and work with what we have now.


Happy New Year to all of you

[Borosai]

As much as I love Barry, I'd do this trade for the same reasons that have been previously stated. If it's one thing we have learned, it's that depending on shooting to win games is a huge mistake. There is no guarantee that Barry will stay hot the rest of the season or the playoffs (and that is all he is there for). On the other hand, Maggette goes to the basket and given minutes (which are there if he plays well) could play good defense with his athletic ability. Remember, winning changes bad attitudes all the time.

At PG, you have Parker, Vaughn, and Manu handles the ball a lot anyway. There would be an extra roster spot as well, so if totally necessary, the Spurs can get a really cheap PG. Whatever, it's really a no-brainer unless they are depending on Barry's shooting for the rest of the year...not a good idea.

[MannyIsGod]

My thoughts exactly. Since when do we put 100% stock into the blurbs we read in the Express-News?* There have been arguments for and against this trade, but we all realize that some kind of change needs to be made and we need to have faith that whatever happens will be for the best.

Now I'm going to take off the Pollyanna dress...
POP, FIND US A FUCKING DEPENDABLE BACKUP PG!!!!!!!












*No offense to JBlaze.Actually, the EN is actually very accurate considering Ludden and Moore usually get their info straight from the horse's mouth. Other sources of information can be scrutinized a lot more, but the EN is usually a very accurate source for Spurs information - especially when coming from Ludden.

[MannyIsGod]

I didn't really believe this article last night, but after rereading it today, it sounds completely like what Pop would say. I think its a mistake, and a huge mistake at that. If rebounding and a lack of athleticism cost us a title run this year, mark this day on your calenders.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

*No offense to JBlaze.

You can trust that any of the area college/high school box scores I type have been scrutinized with the utmost importance for their accuracy.

[Mr. Body]

What exactly is being offered for Maggette right now? We know the Artest deal is off the table. There are suggestions Miami is offering something for him and the possibility of something from Toronto, but nothing obvious and perhaps nothing. Like Artest, Maggette has a number of question marks. Not as harsh, naturally, but they're there. Maggette wanting to start may drive away teams like Toronto that have solid rotations already (even giving up MoPete) and who are trying to develop strong locker rooms.

Maybe the Spurs are seeing how low the price can get. If the Clips are all-fired to get rid of Maggs, maybe he can be had for expirings and a couple incentives. No one is exactly burning a path to the door to get him. He's really expensive. And LAC may be pleased to see him go just to wipe the money away, if they see they can't get any great talent for him.

So maybe the Spurs are trying to get him without parting with Barry.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Just add a second rounder and they'll accept.

[MannyIsGod]

What exactly is being offered for Maggette right now? We know the Artest deal is off the table. There are suggestions Miami is offering something for him and the possibility of something from Toronto, but nothing obvious and perhaps nothing. Like Artest, Maggette has a number of question marks. Not as harsh, naturally, but they're there. Maggette wanting to start may drive away teams like Toronto that have solid rotations already (even giving up MoPete) and who are trying to develop strong locker rooms.

Maybe the Spurs are seeing how low the price can get. If the Clips are all-fired to get rid of Maggs, maybe he can be had for expirings and a couple incentives. No one is exactly burning a path to the door to get him. He's really expensive. And LAC may be pleased to see him go just to wipe the money away, if they see they can't get any great talent for him.

So maybe the Spurs are trying to get him without parting with Barry.Probably impossible considering the salaries. They probably need Barry's contract to make a deal work.

[MannyIsGod]

BTW, the Clippers might be a good team for Beno to go to because he wouldn't have to handle the ball. I wonder how he feels about this.

[Bruno]

So maybe the Spurs are trying to get him without parting with Barry.

Or Beno.
By trading Barry for Maggette, Spurs will lost some shooting and playmaking. Shooting and playmaking are Beno's main qualities. Spurs have maybe yoo still the hope that Beno will be a better backup PG than Vaughn.

[Mr. Body]

Bonner+Udrih+Williams works, but it's unlikely LAC does that. You're right: Williams+Udrih alone doesn't cut it.

This seems to be a Luis Scola-type scenario. He's a valuable player, but buyout+cost to trade for him+lack of NBA experience has driven down Scola's value.

In the same way, I wonder how much Maggette is truly worth. You have a similar calculus:

Corey Maggette = malcontent+big injury issues+an expensive and long contract+desire to start = what value?

The Spurs may be out of it completely. Or they are factoring what other teams might want to do. It looks like LAC isn't seeing a lot of good offers, SAS knows that, and is trying to lowball. If they don't have to get rid of Brent Barry, why would they?

The line warning Maggs he wouldn't get much time in San Antonio-- I wonder if this is the standard line given by the Spurs and wonder if they wouldn't mind eventually starting him and bringing Ginobili off the bench. That would rock.

[MannyIsGod]

Saying he wouldn't get more than 26mpg here is fucking retarded. Maggs is better than Finley, and who else would play more off the bench?

[gameFACE]

I like the trade. Just do it. Rebounding is too big a problem now as it was last playoffs. Magette could give the Spurs that Bonzi Wells type of muscle rebounding that is desperately needed.

If a PG is not included in the deal there is still Jacque and (erratic) Manu. Plus it might help activate Butler or get James White back down here with the extra roster spot available.

[ChumpDumper]

Eh, maybe we're going for Artest now....

:drunk

[RC's Boss]

I like a Magette trade except I'd hate to give up Barry for him and the Clips aren't going to want Beno and some combo involving Williams. Plus if we had maggette, Finley and Maggette someone would get splinters in their asses.

[TDMVPDPOY]

trade horry who is doin nothin :D

[Duncanoypi]

Maggette didn't start with the Clips today...i think he's bound to part ways with them....

[samikeyp]

He is gone...the only question is where.

[Mr. Body]

Maggette didn't start with the Clips today...i think he's bound to part ways with them....

He hasn't started for them all year. Only twice.

[ChumpDumper]

He just played 2/3 of the first half. No trade is imminent.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Barry+Beno+2nd rounder for Maggette+Ewing. Win situation for both teams. Pull the fuckin trigger already.

[Mr. Body]

Barry+Beno+2nd rounder for Maggette+Ewing. Win situation for both teams. Pull the fuckin trigger already.

Did you read the front article? The Spurs are saying No.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I know they are saying no. I just can't stand they aren't doing this.

[ChumpDumper]

Chances are the Clips are trying to get something else included in the trade that the Spurs consider a poison pill.

Or the Spurs are just pulling some shit in the media to call out Beno again.

Or they're not going to do anything until the trading deadline like they do every year.

[ducks]

would the clippers want scola to and spurs saying no?

[ChumpDumper]

That would make the trade more attractive to the Spurs.

[VaSpursFan]

this may bite us in the ass...he would be a valuable asset to our team. especially in the playoffs when free throws become ever more important. his aggression would put pressure on opposing defenses and my put key players in foul trouble.

oh well...we'll keep beno who is our 3rd string pg now and barry, in the hope that these 2 will get hot for the playoffs. this doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies...

[ShoogarBear]

Okay, Beno has his coughup in the backcourt for this game.

[reydawg]

I didn't really believe this article last night, but after rereading it today, it sounds completely like what Pop would say. I think its a mistake, and a huge mistake at that. If rebounding and a lack of athleticism cost us a title run this year, mark this day on your calenders.

Marked. But I'm about to throw out my calendar so I'm not sure how I'll remember that this day was marked.

[kris]

Spurs better do something soon. This team can't win the championship without some fresh blood to get things going. Right now we're on pace for a great regular season record and a swift second round trouncing. Spurs have about as much energy as a paper plate.

[lefty]

Maggette will not solve our problems ; yeah he is a good rebounder, he goes to the line, but it's not gonna be enough.

We need to work hard, period

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Like I said if it's not broken lets ride out the season with it.

If it's not broke? What do you call what happened last year against Dallas?



So maybe the Spurs are trying to get him without parting with Barry.

Um, yeah, kinda have to work with that whole matching salary thing and the CBA...

[Mr. Body]

Um, yeah, kinda have to work with that whole matching salary thing and the CBA...

Read above, dipshit. We have expirings enough. Spurs might try to see if LAC just wants to dump his salary completely, otherwise it's not worth it to them.

[dimsah]

Why is J. Vaughn such a bad backup pg to everyone?
I don't see how Beno is a better option here. Beno plays little defense, and is streaky.
Vaughn can handle the offense and play D in a similar fashion that AJ did back in the day except in this case the guy that can't hit 10 foot jumpers away from the baseline is not starting. J.V. doesn't have a 4-1 assist to turnover ratio like AJ did, but he's not that bad. Would you like to bring Van Exel back?

[SenorSpur]

Looks like the Clips are having much luck with the Maggette Sweepstakes:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/43985/20061231/clippers_still_badly_want_to_deal_maggette/

Clippers Still Badly Want To Deal Maggette
31st December, 2006 - 9:47 am
Boston Herald -

Even though trade discussions between the Kings and Clippers have apparently ended, Corey Maggette remains very available.

News of a breakdown in discussions between the Clippers and Kings in a potential Corey Maggette-for-Ron Artest swap has to be disappointing for the Clippers. They have been dangling the self-centered Maggette for quite some time now, without completing a deal for a scorer who hasn’t fit into the Clippers’ improving scene.

Then again, perhaps Artest’s marketability is reaching the end of the road as well.

“The Clippers want to get rid of Maggette in the worst way,” said one league general manager. “And Artest had worn out his welcome in Sacramento halfway through last year. The thing that gets me is that Iverson gets a rap when you think about these two. At least Iverson goes out and tries to win for you every night.”

[JP le Requin]

let oberto and luis scola for him...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Don't Worry. Iverson talks lasted about 3 weeks. We are bound to land him by friday.

[Darkwaters]

Don't Worry. Iverson talks lasted about 3 weeks. We are bound to land him by friday.

I hope so. Maggette seems to be the best overall option. He serves a purpose NOW and he is a player to build around for the future (and replace the ever increasingly frail Bowen).

Make it so.

[leemajors]

frail? remind me, when was the last time bowen missed a game?

[ChumpDumper]

Frail?

:wtf

[T Park]

How is Bruce Bowen frail?

Please explain that...

[Darkwaters]

frail? remind me, when was the last time bowen missed a game?

Ok, frail was perhaps not the best choice of words. He is an ironman. I suppose I meant "aged".

[leemajors]

good defenders get beat sometimes. it happened more than a few times last year, too.

[ChumpDumper]

I guess, but thinking Maggette is magically going to become even a decent defender here is not terribly realistic.

[Darkwaters]

I guess, but thinking Maggette is magically going to become even a decent defender here is not terribly realistic.

Oh, no, I realize that Maggette isn't going to magically change if he dons a spurs uni. He'll still be the same defensive player. But the Spurs don't have a decent plan for the post-Bowen era. What if Bowen got hurt tonight and was out for the rest of the season? What if Bowen started to really slow down and couldn't play his usual big minutes? Is Finley really the answer at the 3 when Bowen is out? E-Will? James White might be able to come off the bench for some decent minutes next season, but I don't think anyone expects him to start. I really love Bowen, but the team does not have a journeyman that is anywhere near succeeding him and one day he will be both aged AND frail.

Maggette might not be the perfect answer, but who is (and near that price and available)? Maggette might not be the ideal answer, but I think he is as good as we'll see. He makes sense, and the team needs to consider their long-term and short-term futures.

[ChumpDumper]

Well he misses about 20 games a season, so yeah, he's far from a perfect Bowen replacement.

[MI21]

Holy shit.

Good luck to opposing teams having to defend Parker, Ginobili, Maggette, Duncan and either Elson/Oberto/Horry/Bonner in the postseason all at one time. The loss of Beno is nothing, I'm actually more comfortable with Vaughn out there. Sure he is less reward on a good night, but he is also less risk on the other nights. I think with all the other firepower on the Spurs, Vaughn's consistently steady play is more important than an odd good outing from Beno.

This trade would make the Spurs absolutely amazing offensively without comprimising the still decent defensive core. In fact, it would probably help the defense a little bit considering Maggette's strength, he could be useful against the bigger types. Would do nothing but improve the transition game also, Maggette is very very athletic. Him on the break with Parker, Ginobili and Elson would be a sight.

[Big P]

If the Clipps want to get rid of Maggette so bad, then I can see his price dropping as the trade deadline approaches. Barry has been playing really well for us this year & I think we are definitly going to need his shooting in the playoffs. If the Clipps would take EWill, Beno, picks & cash for Maggette & Korolev, then I would do that trade. Giving up more than that for Maggette IMO is not worth risking our playoffs.

[polandprzem]

Holy shit.

Good luck to opposing teams having to defend Parker, Ginobili, Maggette, Duncan and either Elson/Oberto/Horry/Bonner in the postseason all at one time. The loss of Beno is nothing, I'm actually more comfortable with Vaughn out there. Sure he is less reward on a good night, but he is also less risk on the other nights. I think with all the other firepower on the Spurs, Vaughn's consistently steady play is more important than an odd good outing from Beno.

This trade would make the Spurs absolutely amazing offensively without comprimising the still decent defensive core. In fact, it would probably help the defense a little bit considering Maggette's strength, he could be useful against the bigger types. Would do nothing but improve the transition game also, Maggette is very very athletic. Him on the break with Parker, Ginobili and Elson would be a sight.


What kind of firepower are talking about?
Without Barry spurs do not have a consistent 3pt shooter.

Btw - maggete is Injury prone

[T Park]

Barry has been playing really well for us this year & I think we are definitly going to need his shooting in the playoffs

Link to when Brent Barry has ever been a great performer in the playoffs?

[T Park]

Without Barry spurs do not have a consistent 3pt shooter.



Bullcrap

Horry is shooting over 40% for the month of December, Bonner is shooting better.

Ginobili is shooting well.


I don't understand where you guys get that you think Barry is gonna change his spots and become a "clutch" shooter in the playoffs.

[Mr. Body]

Barry as clutch shooter isn't the point. Barry as outside threat is. Maggette wouldn't be a threat at all.

But that's not the issue for the Spurs, IMO. Among others (Magg's brittleness, bad contract, etc.), Barry is one of the major reasons the bench has been working so well for the Spurs this year, when it does. He is tough to replace at this point.

Maggette is expensive for what he offers. If this were Pietrus or Josh Childress, the Spurs would do it instantly, but Maggette cripples their flexibility for only a potential quick fix.

[polandprzem]

Bullcrap

Horry is shooting over 40% for the month of December, Bonner is shooting better.

Ginobili is shooting well.


I don't understand where you guys get that you think Barry is gonna change his spots and become a "clutch" shooter in the playoffs.

All I know is that Horry won't play above 10 minutes a game in the playoffs, Bonner as well (if he can earn 2 minutes a game that would be awesome to him) .
Barry is in a rotation.
And I know - many barry haters in here. But hmm who was in the rotation when spurs were winning the 2005 title? (just 7 guys were playing)

Robert is not a Big shot Bob anymore and the worst thing about him is that he is getting older and slower and his defense has dropped since 2005., he won't earn more then 12 minutes. Some could say that 10 is enough, but it isn't as we have no reagular rotation (yet).

I would love to have a guy like Maggete but he is risky at this point (btw - I wanted Antony Carter and Ron Mercer one year they became spurs but that was their end)

[bringBAKElie]

dont think we should pull the trigger on the barry for maggete trade but i do think, now that bonner should get horry's minutes

[Bruno]

Spurs have a lot of shooters, they can trade Barry for Maggete and still remain a good shooting team : Udrih, Ginobili, Finley, bowen, Horry nad bonner can all hit 3 pointers with a good accuracy.
If Spurs need another shooter (especially if Udrih is packaged with Barry), they can sign Casey Jacobsen for the min.

Spurs need to trade Barry if to get Maggette : you can do a trade that work under the cba without Barry but Barry+Maggette = too much money spend on backup SG/SF for next season.

Spurs should really trade Barry for Maggette if the trade is on the table : Ginobili/Bowen/Maggette/Finley will be a great and versatile swingmen rotation.

[Supergirl]

If Ron Artest wasn't such a headcase he'd be a lot closer to what the Spurs need.

But that's like saying if the ocean wasn't wet it'd be perfect.

[polandprzem]

Why not trade Bowen and Horry then?

[Supergirl]

Why not trade Bowen and Horry then?


Bowen is arguably the most important Spur not named Tim Duncan. Without him, the Spurs don't win in 2003 or 2005, and he's not showing signs of slowing down. In fact, he's our most durable player.

If the Spurs were going to trade Horry, they should get back a lot more for him than Maggette.

[polandprzem]

Bowen is arguably the most important Spur not named Tim Duncan. Without him, the Spurs don't win in 2003 or 2005, and he's not showing signs of slowing down. In fact, he's our most durable player.

If the Spurs were going to trade Horry, they should get back a lot more for him than Maggette.

:rolleyes

They are old

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

If the Spurs were going to trade Horry, they should get back a lot more for him than Maggette.
Are you serious?

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs are caught in a tough situation. They're right up against the cap and they have an old, aging roster of complimentary players that are not tradeable assets.

I love the James White pickup, but we all know that move is for down the road. The Spurs have no one to help bridge the gap between Bowen and this rookie at that position.

I know it's a "chicken-crap" thing for me to say, but I do blame Pop and R.C. for not addressing this situation, in part, before now. It's was a crucial mistake to allow this team get as old as it has, while relying on older, perimeter players to try and keep up with the younger, quicker, perimeter talent in the West.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

We either make the trade or give E-Will more time.

[ducks]

spurs did not realize the nba was going small so soon

and make the nba rule changes
I blame the front office on small ball movement but not the rule changes with the handcheckng

[polandprzem]

spurs did not realize the nba was going small so soon

and make the nba rule changes
I blame the front office on small ball movement but not the rule changes with the handcheckng

Blame for the small ball movenment?

Precise it man.

[Kamnik]

If they don't make this trade they are fucking idiots. Period. TPark and anyone else can lecture me about the 'experience' and 'knowledge' of Pop, but if he passes on this deal he's a fucking dumbass.

:pctoss

You make this deal and you've got a core of TD, TP, Manu, and Maggette for the rest of the Duncan era.

And as much as Pop is apparently in love with small ball, Corey would be perfect for his stupid ass small ball in the four spot.


ok now....

dont call probably one of the few elite coaches together with his front office dumbasses

they prooved to be really good in what they do in the last decade

IF THIS DEAL WOULD BE THIS FUCKING SIMPLE (meaning Maggete brings more than Spurs loose with Udrih and Barry) THEY WOULD DO IT

but there must be something that turned them off; what they officialy say (or the source say) is just some random excuse

WE CANT KNOW what is the real reason the didnt pull the trade

and there is SOMETHING that WE DONT KNOW



you cant just look at some stats and say this player/s is better than the other

there are many factors fans like us dont see




imo one of the important factors is that CM is not as good 3pt shooter as Barry and so he cant pull the defence away from doubling TD

and TD is still by far most important Spur coming playoff time

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm sorry, but if they pass on this they are dumbasses.

* Our bench is old

* Pop seems committed to small ball, but doesn't have a small ball PF on his roster

* Every time we have cleared cap room for free agency, we have crap to show for it.

Given all that, Maggette addresses the first two issues and as far as #3 goes it'll be better using money on him than overpaying some scrubs when we can't get any FAs to come to SA.


you cant just look at some stats and say this player/s is better than the other

there are many factors fans like us dont see

I've got League Pass, I watch them play all the time :lol I'm basing it on watching how Maggette plays, not reading his damn stats. He's not the greatest three point shooter, but him and Duncan in the pick and roll would be lethal.

We need someone else who can initiate a half court offense come the playoffs, and Corey can do that. He's great at getting to the basket, and I'd bet he'd actually average more assists per game than Tony does.

[Mr. Body]

We need someone else who can initiate a half court offense come the playoffs, and Corey can do that. He's great at getting to the basket, and I'd bet he'd actually average more assists per game than Tony does.

You're a lunatic. Only two seasons of his career has he not averaged more turnovers than assists.

True, that was three and four years ago, when he was actually worth all the money people want us to pay him.

[timvp]

If this were Pietrus or Josh Childress, the Spurs would do it instantly, but Maggette cripples their flexibility for only a potential quick fix.

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say but Maggette >>>>>>>>> Pietrus or Childress. You trade for Pietrus or Childress and it's a move for the future. Neither one would be that much of a factor this season.

I'm not as big of a Pietrus fan as most people on this forum. He's fragile, doesn't have much of a halfcourt offensive game and is a bit of whiner. Childress I like his long term potential, but that's three or four years down the line. Right now if he was on the team, he'd be behind Barry and Finley. His man-to-man defense is horrid and most of his points come from the inside ... which wouldn't work on the Spurs because that's Duncan's space.

Maggette is a player you can plug in and get production from right away. He's an elite slasher already, gives you the needed rebounding and fits perfectly with the roster.

[Kori Ellis]

:lol

I'm all for Corey Maggette, but you all are going overboard now.

He's not going average more assists than Tony.
He's not going to become a Bruce Bowen type defender.
He's not going to out rebound Tim Duncan.
He's not going to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

He would come here and do the same things he always does ... be a streaky shooter, hustle, battle for boards, get to the rack and to the line, get hurt often. Don't over inflate his contributions just because you want him here. He's good enough to merit wanting anyway.

[Mr. Body]

Corey Maggette isn't fragile? What?? I think you're loving this guy far more than he deserves. Pietrus and Childress are far better players than Maggette is THIS YEAR. PLUS they'd get much better in the future. They don't have the problems playing defense, are not malcontents, are far cheaper, and both can actually hit three pointers.

Childress gets most of his points on the inside? Where does Maggette get his? At least Chilly has worked on his outside game.

Pietrus gets just as many rebounds as Maggette does. And *gasp* Childress gets more. They both have better characters at this point and are extremely good shotblockers at their position.

Picking Maggette over either of these guys is imbecilic. This forum is seriously overvaluing what Corey Maggette is.

[Bob Lanier]

And yes, Robert Horry is more valuable to a playoff team than Corey Maggette, even if he shoots 20% from the field.

[Kori Ellis]

Pietrus gets just as many rebounds as Maggette does. And *gasp* Childress gets more.

Pietrus averages 5.2 boards in 32 mpg. Maggette averages 5.5 boards in 26 mpg. Not quite the same. Childress averages more - 6.3 - but in 37mpg.

Maggette is the better rebounder of the 3.

[Mr. Body]

Pietrus averages 5.2 boards in 32 mpg. Maggette averages 5.5 boards in 26 mpg. Not quite the same. Childress averages more - 6.3 - but in 37mpg.

Maggette is the better rebounder of the 3.

Ok. You guys win. Let's break the bank for Mr. Glass (in more ways than one) Corey Maggette, who will kill our chances to get an actual SF, is extremely injury prone, and will wreck what continuity our bench has by costing our best bench player.

Corey Maggette costs as much as Josh Childress and Mickael Pietrus COMBINED in terms of salary.

[Kori Ellis]

Ok. You guys win. Let's break the bank for Mr. Glass (in more ways than one) Corey Maggette.

Corey Maggette costs as much as Josh Childress and Mickael Pietrus COMBINED.

Don't say you guys win. Did you read my post prior to that? I am saying the same thing as you - that people here are overinflating his value. But there's no reason for you to try to make him look worse. His rebounding is obviously better than those two.

I like Josh Childress but I don't like Pietrus at all. But right now it's Maggette who is on the block, not either of those two. From the beginning I've said that I don't think the Spurs will go for Maggette because of the length of his contract. So I'm on the same page.

[timvp]

Ok. You guys win. Let's break the bank for Mr. Glass (in more ways than one) Corey Maggette, who will kill our chances to get an actual SF, is extremely injury prone, and will wreck what continuity our bench has by costing our best bench player.

Corey Maggette costs as much as Josh Childress and Mickael Pietrus COMBINED.

Yeah, that's a new invention called a rookie contract. And you really think the Hawks are Warriors are looking to trade those players who are cheap and have longterm potential.

[Mr. Body]

To say Maggette is better right now than Childress or Pietrus is seriously overvaluing Maggette. Corey Maggette is WYSIWYG. Injuries+no perimeter game+prima donna personality+demand to start is a lot to swallow, beyond the fact that he makes only about a million less than Manu Ginobili per year, plus two more years. He is not likely to opt out of that third year, if he is a Spur.

I would love to have Maggette, but it's not a serious crime to pass him up. That's a lot of junk to swallow for a guy who, if he doesn't improve the team very much, kills all our flexibility.

Keeping Brent Barry is not such a ludicrous idea.

[timvp]

Corey Maggette isn't fragile? What??
Uh, I'm the one who called him a China doll. That doesn't make Pietrus not fragile though.


I think you're loving this guy far more than he deserves. Pietrus and Childress are far better players than Maggette is THIS YEAR.

:lmao

Do you watch any of these guys play. Childress plays for a horrible Hawks team and Pietrus plays for a run and gun Warriors team. Put Maggette on either of those teams and he averages 20+ without a problem.


Childress gets most of his points on the inside? Where does Maggette get his? At least Chilly has worked on his outside game.

Maggette used to be a good outside shooter ... until he lost his shooting coach. The Spurs have him.


Picking Maggette over either of these guys is imbecilic. This forum is seriously overvaluing what Corey Maggette is.

If you seriously think Pietrus or Childress would help the Spurs more this year you really need to watch more basketball.

[Mr. Body]

Pietrus or Childress off the Spurs' bench would be a mighty punch. Not quite the answer to Josh Howard, but a bolt of youth and energy. Obviously they aren't available.

That doesn't mean we need to overpay for Maggette. If one of these things were different:

1) extremely injury prone
2) no outside game
3) very bad contract
4) costs Brent Barry

... then I'd be much more excited.

But then, if one of those was not the case, LAC would not be shopping him so desperately.

[timvp]

To say Maggette is better right now than Childress or Pietrus is seriously overvaluing Maggette. Corey Maggette is WYSIWYG. Injuries+no perimeter game+prima donna personality+demand to start is a lot to swallow, beyond the fact that he makes only about a million less than Manu Ginobili per year, plus two more years.

By the time Childress or Pietrus is ready to contribute, you are going to have to break the bank for them. You think they'll make $2M their whole careers?


He is not likely to opt out of that third year, if he is a Spur.

Of course he'd opt out. He'd be 29 and would be looking to cash in for last big contract.


Keeping Brent Barry is not such a ludicrous idea.

Brent Barry makes a lot of money, plays no defense, doesn't rebound, doesn't show up in the playoffs ... but at least he likes playing a role :jack

[Mr. Body]

The second unit works largely because of Brent Barry and he's an expiring contract starting next summer. His efficiency this year has taken a lot of pressure off the starting unit.

I don't think Maggette opts out, necessarily. Isn't that the Summer of Love as far as big FAs on the market? He might need to wait until the next year to get a payday.

And I say again: Pietrus or Childress would impact this team just as much as Maggette would. But let's leave them aside. As we all know, that ain't happening.

[Mr. Body]

Do I like Maggette? Yes.

Do I think he's waaaaay too expensive? Yes.

The Spurs' FO is conservative. It pisses us off at times, sure. But this is a case where their prudence may be the best idea.

[Mr. Body]

Sorry for multiple posts, but I have to go_-

I'd be absolutely behind acquiring Maggette if they chose to. I just think a cost-benefit at this point marks him too costly. If we absolutely knew he'd opt out that last year or - miraculously - we could drop all expirings+Udrih+pick/Scola for him, I'd be tremendously excited.

As is, I think the scales tip in favor of No.

[timvp]

1) extremely injury prone

Funny you harp on that considering that Childress has played 9 games this year and Pietrus missed 74 games in his first three years in the NBA. Extremely fragile prone Maggette missed less than half of that.


2) no outside game

Would be true but of the three, Maggette has hit the most threes in a season. And it's not even really close.


3) very bad contract

You'd rather have Barry and Beno at two-years, $13.6M than Maggette at two-years, $14.8M?

Paying a 37-year-old Brent Barry $6M is going to be awesome.


4) costs Brent Barry

Is this the same Brent Barry who was the team's worst player in the playoffs last year and the guy who is currently the team's worst defender?

[Mr. Body]

Yes, the same Brent Barry. I don't see the same second unit without him.

Again, as I said before, if Maggette's contract was one year shorter (or he didn't take that last year), this is a different scenario.

All that aside, I still see the Spurs trying to acquire him. They may have seen the level of offers the Clips have been receiving (which are not good) and pulled back to a position of strength. I don't think this is over.

[polandprzem]

Once there were talks about karl malone....and how it ended?

[Kori Ellis]

Once there were talks about karl malone....and how it ended?

He retired.

What does that have to do with Maggette? :lol

[polandprzem]

He retired.

What does that have to do with Maggette? :lol

Nothing :drunk


But we have won that year :p:

[lefty]

Still talking about Corey?????

FORGET IT, HE WON'T COME !!!!

Plus, I don't see the Clips giving up on him easily

[Mr. Body]

Still talking about Corey?????

FORGET IT, HE WON'T COME !!!!

Plus, I don't see the Clips giving up on him easily

He demanded a trade.

[Bob Lanier]

Now there's an idea. Somebody hunt down Stockton and ask him if he thinks he's better than Beno Udrih.

[lefty]

He demanded a trade.

So???
Doesn't mean they will trade him ;
and if they do, they won't trade him for Barry+Beno or Finley or whatever we'll offer them

[Kori Ellis]

So???
Doesn't mean they will trade him ;

The Clippers want to trade him. Dunleavy doesn't want him there.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You're a lunatic. Only two seasons of his career has he not averaged more turnovers than assists.

True, that was three and four years ago, when he was actually worth all the money people want us to pay him.

Considering you bitched and moaned that we needed to pay Javtokas the entire mid-level exemption over the summer, pardon me if you're bitching and moaning about Maggette's salary doesn't fall on deaf ears here...

We'd be paying him the same we're paying Beno and Barry now, and we'd be ditching our worst two defenders along with it. Win-win.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Still talking about Corey?????

FORGET IT, HE WON'T COME !!!!

Plus, I don't see the Clips giving up on him easily

Eight pages, and lefty is still clueless...

The Clips are the ones who initiated the talks, dumbass.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So???
Doesn't mean they will trade him ;
and if they do, they won't trade him for Barry+Beno or Finley or whatever we'll offer them

Can you not read? They were already willing to do the Barry & Beno deal, the Spurs said no.

[lefty]

Eight pages, and lefty is still clueless...

The Clips are the ones who initiated the talks, dumbass.

I know, you asshole, but think about it : Corey is a terrific player ; we have good, but not terrific players to offer.

Hey, but after all, Sterling is able to screw things up, so we never now

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I know, you asshole, but think about it : Corey is a terrific player ; we have good, but not terrific players to offer.

Hey, but after all, Sterling is able to screw things up, so we never now

Can you not read? The Clips *are willing to do the deal*, the Spurs passed.

No comprende or what?

[lefty]

Can you not read? The Clips *are willing to do the deal*, the Spurs passed.

No comprende or what?

I do, I do, but maybe they were testing the market, or bluffing ; that has happened in the past

[50 cent]

Wtf??!?!?!?

[baseline bum]

I want Maggette badly on this team, but there's no way they can survive another series with Dallas or Phoenix with a backup PG who has a Van Exel jump-shot. I would love to have him for Barry and Udrih if the Spurs could by some other means land a backup PG who can hit an open jumper.

[Texas_Ranger]

Spurs are really stupid if they don't want to trade Barry and Beno for Maggette. I just can not believe that happend.

[Bob Lanier]

This may be off-topic, but it's somewhat related as several Spurs fans were proposing him as an alternative: Charlotte dunker/bricker/gambler Gerald Wallace just injured his shoulder (again).

[VaSpursFan]

i can't believe that we are pinning our playoff hopes on the way barry is playing now...as if come playoffs he will be a difference maker a la steve kerr. kerr was a prove performer in the playoffs, barry hasn't proven anything in the playoffs and i doubt he'll make much of a difference this year. if you can trade him for a solid, strong 3 that attacks the rim, puts pressure on defenses and hits his free throws, i don't know how you let that go. furthermore, every time the spurs try to clear cap room to land a free agent, they fail. our track record is abysmal. the only way we can get top tier talent is through trades or draft picks...or veterans in the twilight of their career who are chasing a ring.

now, if the spurs are calling the clips bluff and trying to get maggette for the best deal possible, i'm cool with that. but, i don't know how you let this guy slip through the cracks. the spurs were/are chasing him because they know he can be an important piece to this team's championship run.

[Bob Lanier]

Didn't Barry hit a game-winner off a Duncan moving screen during the Kings series?

[T Park]

Charlotte dunker/bricker/gambler Gerald Wallace just injured his shoulder (again).

Talk about a guy that can't make an outside shot.....

[Marcus Bryant]

Go Spurs Go!

[VaSpursFan]

Didn't Barry hit a game-winner off a Duncan moving screen during the Kings series?


true, memorial day miracle it wasn't, but he did hit that shot. if there were more moments like that, maybe i'd have the warm and fuzzies. kerr, elliott, hell even jaren jackson played out of their skulls in the playoffs...barry has to do a lot more to get me excited.

[Mr. Body]

now, if the spurs are calling the clips bluff and trying to get maggette for the best deal possible, i'm cool with that. but, i don't know how you let this guy slip through the cracks. the spurs were/are chasing him because they know he can be an important piece to this team's championship run.

I honestly believe this is the case. The Spurs don't want to give up both Barry and Beno and are playing chicken. LAC isn't getting a lot of great offers and are filtering the fact right now.

At least, that's my hope. I hope the Spurs do get Maggette but hope they don't overpay. Of course, maybe they are done with getting him. Nevertheless, I see them making a move somewhere this year.

[SenorSpur]

I honestly believe this is the case. The Spurs don't want to give up both Barry and Beno and are playing chicken. LAC isn't getting a lot of great offers and are filtering the fact right now.

At least, that's my hope. I hope the Spurs do get Maggette but hope they don't overpay. Of course, maybe they are done with getting him. Nevertheless, I see them making a move somewhere this year.

If they want to improve their championship chances, they'd better make a move.

I remind everyone what the Malik Rose-for-Nazr Mohammed did for the Spurs in '05. That move jettisoned the Spurs to the NBA Championship.

I don't know if Maggette would provide the same spark, but he sure couldn't hurt.

Also I wouldn't worry too much about his supposed "selfish" attitude. The Spurs have had some dealings with those personalities in the past - NVE, Glenn Robinson. These guys had to conform the the ways and behaviors of the team.

[bigdog]

If they want to improve their championship chances, they'd better make a move.

I remind everyone what the Malik Rose-for-Nazr Mohammed did for the Spurs in '05. That move jettisoned the Spurs to the NBA Championship.

I don't know if Maggette would provide the same spark, but he sure couldn't hurt.

Also I wouldn't worry too much about his supposed "selfish" attitude. The Spurs have had some dealings with those personalities in the past - NVE, Glenn Robinson. These guys had to conform the the ways and behaviors of the team.

exactly. we definitely have the disiplinary coaches here to calm guys down. i mean look at stephen jackson, when he was here, we had few,if any problems with him,and now that he left for big bucks, hes gone crazy.

[Marcus Bryant]

Nazr waved a great towel in '05.

[SenorSpur]

Nazr waved a great towel in '05.

True. And he was rendered "ineffective" during the WCSF.

That said, he still helped the Spurs win the NBA title.

[TwoHandJam]

true, memorial day miracle it wasn't, but he did hit that shot. if there were more moments like that, maybe i'd have the warm and fuzzies. kerr, elliott, hell even jaren jackson played out of their skulls in the playoffs...barry has to do a lot more to get me excited.I think the shot actually tied the game and sent it into overtime where the Spurs eventually won if memory serves.

I love Brent and I love the way he's been playing this year but the only playoff series where he's really been a difference maker was two years ago against the Suns. Maybe he put in some minutes playing point against Detroit when Tony choked (again) but that's it. I wouldn't call him a "playoff performer" per se.

[The Truth #6]

If they want to improve their championship chances, they'd better make a move.

I remind everyone what the Malik Rose-for-Nazr Mohammed did for the Spurs in '05. That move jettisoned the Spurs to the NBA Championship.

I don't know if Maggette would provide the same spark, but he sure couldn't hurt.

Also I wouldn't worry too much about his supposed "selfish" attitude. The Spurs have had some dealings with those personalities in the past - NVE, Glenn Robinson. These guys had to conform the the ways and behaviors of the team.

I would say the "selfish" players Pop has worked with in the past have either been no names on the way up or old veterans on the way down. I suppose Derek Anderson might fit this definition, but he was shipped out.

I don't think Magette would want to continue coming off the bench. There's no way around that issue.

[T Park]

he was rendered "ineffective" during the WCSF

Who was that in game 5 with like 18 points 15 rebounds?

Him and Manu were the only ones to show up....

[T Park]

when Tony choked (again

Yeah that defense he played was just pathetic :rolleyes

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think Magette would want to continue coming off the bench. There's no way around that issue.

Well there's one way - he could start instead of Manu.

But if he came here, he'd know that there's no guarantee that he'd be a starter. No Spurs player's starting job is guaranteed.

[ChumpDumper]

We probably tried to talk his agent into dropping the option year and produced a nice impasse.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

I suppose Derek Anderson might fit this definition, but he was shipped out.
Mr. "Loyalty" walked out on his own terms.

[timvp]

We probably tried to talk his agent into dropping the option year and produced a nice impasse.

:lol That's my thinking as well. Knowing the Spurs, if they are really serious about getting Maggette, they are trying to turn that player option into a team option.

The only player in the history of the NBA who I can remember taking years off his contract to help a trade go thru is Nick Van Exel. He gave up millions to join the Mavs. So yeah, good luck in getting a player to throw away $9M or whatever it is.

[T Park]

Good luck in that getting by the player's union as well.

[The Truth #6]

Mr. "Loyalty" walked out on his own terms.

Yes, good point. I forgot the facts of his exit, I remembered the emotions.

[ChumpDumper]

The only player in the history of the NBA who I can remember taking years off his contract to help a trade go thru is Nick Van Exel.I thought someone did it last year; it probably haened the other way around.

[Solid D]

Didn't Barry hit a game-winner off a Duncan moving screen during the Kings series?

:lol

[mabber]

I think getting Maggette would be huge for the Spurs. I'm guessing that the Mavs & Suns would rather face a Spur's team with Barry than Maggette. He's usually played really well vs. the Mavs in the past.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

".... Corey Maggette is as wild as can be. He gets to the line more than anyone, but that's because he puts his head down and bulldozes to the basket. He doesn't know a good shot from a bad one and doesn't make anyone better, because he thinks it's all about him."

Quote from a Western Conference Scout in SI 2004.

Since then i haven't really seen a change in his game except for a more inconsistent jump shot. Given all of Maggette's abilities, I don't think the Spurs need this type of player. I don't ever see Maggette playing "Team Basketball." I also don't see him making the extra pass or setting good screens for Manu or Tony. Then you gotta wonder if he could grasp the offense well enough in the next 4 months to fit his game into the Spurs system.

Also, if a 6'6" guard is the answer to the rebounding woes, God Save Us All. Along with defending the Rockets, rebounding was my biggest concern after the Spurs made their moves this off-season. That's why I wanted Javtokas so much. I still think the Spurs wanted to bring him over but shot themselves in the foot somehow or other with the offer. Bonner, Oberto, and Elson provide enough rebounding for one center, not 3. Bringing in Maggette for 14 mil or however much for his 7 rebounds in 32+ minutes?

And if Maggette does come (I doubt he wil imho,) all of a sudden Pop can make him a good, aggresive defender?

This deal just isn't worth it to me. He wont start. He wont even get 20 minutes until April MAYBE. And he wants a big payday when his contract runs out. He probably knows that he can't "showcase my skills" enough here to get paid.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Basically he is lesser talented, more selfish, less proven winner, lesser defender, and with fewer "intangibles" than Manu. At about the same price. No thanks.

[Mr. Body]

Spot-on Leb/Brick. Maggette is way too expensive for all the risks he brings.

Unfortunately we're up against it in terms of winning this year with the crew we have. Losing again to the Mavs would demand blowing up part of the team, but there's not a lot of assets to maneuver.

Still, Maggette is not the guy the Spurs need. The rebounding and the free throw shooting are highly attractive, but this isn't fantasy basketball - those things come with very real costs, both in real dollars and in several other columns.

[Mr. Body]

Basically he is lesser talented, more selfish, less proven winner, lesser defender, and with fewer "intangibles" than Manu. At about the same price. No thanks.

Exactly. He duplicates a handful of Manu's skills, albeit as a better rebounder, and duplicates practically none of the other ones. He also costs about one million dollars less a year.

Yech.

[LEONARD]

They turned down Maggette for 2 spares??? :o

[Mr. Body]

This thread has gotten stupid. Maggette can play he would have been a solid contributor and helped is some very weak areas. Judging by whats being said the Spurs passed on this guy for two scrubs that won't do shit for this team for years to come. Acting like Maggette isn't a baller is fucking lame, and for two guys that aren't going to make a significant difference......its just a weak arguement.

I'm sorry but there has to be more to it than that. There is something else thats not being said something Maggette's camp told the Spurs or some kind of trump card the Clips are pulling.

If it was as simple as Barry + Beno + rights or a pick gets Maggette and the Spurs passed then they are the fucking dumbest group ever. I refuse to accept it for face value, I refuse to accept whats being said, and that we are hearing the whole story. No one is that stupid to pass on this deal.

Like I said, this isn't fantasy basketball. You can't simply add a good free throw shooter and there's no cost to it. Maggette destroys whatever budget the Spurs have to make moves in the future. Simple as that. He's too costly for how risky an investment he is. Erase those risks and you have a situation, but the Spurs have been the same team they've always been: frugal and prudent. As it is, he's vastly overrated by many on this board. His best seasons perfectly coincided with the years the Clippers absolutely sucked. And on the good chance he didn't work out as a Spur (attitude-wise, why would he?), he'd be as good as dead weight. See the crap offers the LAC is getting for him now? How would that change?

[timvp]

:rolleyes

Mr. Body, weren't you the one who was arguing against me regarding JR Smith? IIRC, you were saying he was too much of a risk and was a career scrub. How did that one work out?

If you don't think Maggette is worth a buy low, we can discuss that in a year or two when he's a near all-star.

[Spurminator]

Maggette destroys whatever budget the Spurs have to make moves in the future.

How?

[Lebowski Brickowski]

I'm glad the the Spurs FO seems to be more reluctant to trade our best bench player than most people here would be.

Sure he's old and skinny and not above average on D. But I for one would rather have a smart, savvy, pressure experienced, great passer who is
deadly from 3 pt land than Corey Magette.

Yes, I also would not trade Brent Barry for Corey Maggette. Does that sound ridiculous? Maggette would kill Barry one-on one. He'll make more highlight reels. He'll average more points and rebounds. Probably most GM's in the league would make the trade. (Most GM's in the league don't win trophies for anything that they do.) But just like Body says, All that $alary for what???? A selfish malcontent that has a problem not starting, that likely will have trouble finding a role on the team, and that will want to double his pay 2-3 years from now. Is that baggage worth the few extra boards and FT attempts? That's not the Spurs' style. -- At least I hope not.

[Mr. Body]

:rolleyes

Mr. Body, weren't you the one who was arguing against me regarding JR Smith? IIRC, you were saying he was too much of a risk and was a career scrub. How did that one work out?

If you don't think Maggette is worth a buy low, we can discuss that in a year or two when he's a near all-star.

Our bench would be a mess. JR Smith is still a problematic player and doesn't solve much and Brent Barry is a far better player for us than he would have been. Smith is effective for Denver because he's allowed to shoot 7.1 threes a game. :greedy :dizzy

Like it or not, he'd not be getting much time as a Spur at all.

I don't know if I ever said Smith was a scrub. He is a headcase with limited basketball skills. Maybe that changes in the future, but Barry has been far better for us this year than Smith would have been.

[Mr. Body]

How?

With $8 million welded in stone and metal to the budget next year and then the year after that (I don't buy the "obviously he'll opt out" rationales), the Spurs are far less likely to use their MLE. Maybe part of it, but not all of it. There may be some SFs on the market this summer who can be had for the MLE or they could make a push to finally bring Scola over.

In any case, given how flinty the Spurs are, Maggette would make going for any more expensive player likely impossible. This team is not Dallas.

[mabber]

I'm glad the the Spurs FO seems to be more reluctant to trade our best bench player than most people here would be.

Sure he's old and skinny and not above average on D. But I for one would rather have a smart, savvy, pressure experienced, great passer who is
deadly from 3 pt land than Corey Magette.

Yes, I also would not trade Brent Barry for Corey Maggette. Does that sound rediculous? Maggette would kill Barry one-on one. He'll make more highlight reels. He'll average more points and rebounds. Probably most GM's in the league would make the trade. (Most GM's in the league don't win trophies for anything that they do.) But just like Body says, All that $alary for what???? A selfish malcontent that has a problem not starting, that likely will have trouble finding a role on the team, and that will want to double his pay 2-3 years from now. Is that baggage worth the few extra boards and FT attempts? That's not the Spurs' style. -- At least I hope not.

I would think he'd be worth the risk in regards to him fitting in with this team if he came at the right price. A lot of players that have been accused of being "bad guys" and "selfish" have fit very (with lesser roles) into good teams. Now paying too much for him is another issue and I would not do that which is why he probably won't be a spur.

[timvp]

I don't know if I ever said Smith was a scrub.


Wallace was never an option.

Przybilla was a holding pattern. The centers of the future are named Javtokas and Mahinmi.

JR Smith is a punk scrub


I'd be stunned if Smith is worth more than useless. That's my point.

Bonner and Smith are career deep bench players. One because of his piss-poor attitude.

17 points per game on great shooting numbers across the board are pretty damn good for a 20-year-old. Imagine his growth curve under the right circumstances. He could possibly one day go down as the best three-point shooter ever ... but naw, Spurs are better off with Brent Barry :shootme

And Bonner also didn't turn out half bad.

:smokin

[Mr. Body]

17 points per game on great shooting numbers across the board are pretty damn good for a 20-year-old. Imagine his growth curve under the right circumstances. He could possibly one day go down as the best three-point shooter ever ... but naw, Spurs are better off with Brent Barry :shootme

And Bonner also didn't turn out half bad.

:smokin

Smith doesn't do anything but jack it. He's also a punk. Notice he's not playing right now.

Since you have a hard-on for strong rebounders, I'm surprised you missed this little fact:

Brent Barry is a far better rebounder than JR Smith. Gets fewer turnovers. Is a better locker room guy.

:drunk

[timvp]

Smith doesn't do anything but jack it. He's also a punk. Notice he's not playing right now.

Since you have a hard-on for strong rebounders, I'm surprised you missed this little fact:

Brent Barry is a far better rebounder than JR Smith. Gets fewer turnovers. Is a better locker room guy.

:drunk

I'm surprised anyone can get a rebound playing on the same team as Reggie Evans. Remind me again which of the teams leads the league in rebounds and which is near the bottom.

Thanks.

:fro

[Mr. Body]

:downspin:

timvp, you're being erratic in your primping and stroking some players.

How would JR Smith be a great Spur and Josh Childress not be? One is suddenly sure-fire, the other is a long-term project. Mickael Pietrus has an attitude problem but JR Smith doesn't. I don't get it.

We're in big trouble for the future, and I'm not sure the Spurs can shift into a youth movement without sacrificing a year or two of Duncan's prime. Maybe they can work a miracle this summer.

But with Brent Barry, I see the best chance to win it all this year. He's not the optimal guy there, but he's what we have, and he's our best bench player. I'd rather not drop him in the water for the other dog's bone.

[Mr. Body]

The simple fact is that he'll get you 13 to 18 and 5 to 7 even on the low end of 13 and 5 he's still 3 times the player Barry is. Barry, Horry, Bruce, Finley aren't getting any younger and the Spurs aren't going to drop any big bombs in FA this offseason. Its been since Sean Elliott since the Spurs have seen this type of player.

Comparing Maggette to Sean Elliott shows how badly he's misjudged by this forum. Elliott's value was as a great defender and 3-point shooter. Niether of which Corey Maggette does as a mission statement.

[timvp]

:downspin:

timvp, you're being erratic in your primping and stroking some players.

How would JR Smith be a great Spur and Josh Childress not be? One is suddenly sure-fire, the other is a long-term project. Mickael Pietrus has an attitude problem but JR Smith doesn't. I don't get it.

We're in big trouble for the future, and I'm not sure the Spurs can shift into a youth movement without sacrificing a year or two of Duncan's prime. Maybe they can work a miracle this summer.

But with Brent Barry, I see the best chance to win it all this year. He's not the optimal guy there, but he's what we have, and he's our best bench player. I'd rather not drop him in the water for the other dog's bone.
You do understand that Childress and Pietrus aren't available, right? :dizzy

To get a quality player for Brent Barry, you are going to have to buy low. JR Smith was a great buy low. Corey Maggette might be an even better buy low.

If the Spurs could trade Barry for Childress or Pietrus, they'd do it in a second and I'd be ecstatic. But those trades would never happen, so I don't know why you keep bringing up those name.

Barry has played pretty well this year but he isn't a player I want to be counting on in the playoffs. He sucked last year and sucked the year before, save for a couple of games.

The Spurs have holes to fill and have a player in Barry who at 35 is expendable for a player who can help now and in the future. If you want to keep him in hopes that you can trade him for Childress, LeBron or Pietrus, don't come whining to me if the Spurs get bounced again.

[VaSpursFan]

Barry has never performed well in the playoffs and he's really done near nothing for this team since he's been here. He hasn't even remotely panned out like they hoped.

I don't think Maggette is going to be an MVP but there is no reason he couldn't play alongside Bruce or Manu. I see Maggette as more of a "in timing" type player and with him I'd have no problem bringing Manu off the pine.

i'm glad i'm not the only one who sees this. barry, while good is 35 freaking years old and maggette is what 27/28??? if you can, you always trade old for young.

barry has pretty much maxed out in terms of talent. great 3 point shooting is a wonderful thing to have but it's fool's gold. i'd much rather have a strong aggressive player like maggette punishing defenses and getting folks into foul trouble than have someone chucking 3's. secondly with maggette's size and offensive game, he'll give us a lil d (nowhere near bruce)...but he'll be able to do what bruce can't do, which is attack on the offensive end. i see nothing but a silver lining to this. he may be a malcontent but so was NVE, Big Dog and S. Jack. it's amazing how being a part of a winning program can change your attitude.

the sky isn't falling but this is an opportunity for the spurs to get younger and more athletic. i'm not a fan saving all this cap space for the future since the spurs track record with cap money is horrible. we are not a preferred destination for most free agents. i'd be happy if the spurs proved me wrong :downspin: :downspin: :downspin:

[Mr. Body]

You do understand that Childress and Pietrus aren't available, right? :dizzy

Obviously he's not. We're talking hypotheticals. JR Smith ain't available now, is he? But within your hierarchy, he'd be better Spurs material than these other two guys. But who cares - it's Maggette who's available.


To get a quality player for Brent Barry, you are going to have to buy low. JR Smith was a great buy low. Corey Maggette might be an even better buy low.

That's the problem. Maggette comes with too many secondary costs. That's why the Spurs passed.

I'd be happy if the Spurs pull the trigger for Maggette. I can get behind it, if they chose to do it. But I understand the rationale to go with Barry instead. True, the wait-and-see approach hasn't worked wonders in the past, but keeping our powder dry for the summer might be the best idea.

However, I think the Dallas game this week is of vital importance.

If we lose to Dallas again in the playoffs - the only team that can beat us, IMO - we need to blow the team up in some drastic ways (minus the big three), because that team isn't suddenly going to get worse than us. We just got through pasting Utah, one of the best teams in the NBA right now, and this Dallas game is a huge litmus test. Can we slide by without addressing the rebounding and athleticism concerns? Can we beat this team with what we have?

I think the FO might be looking at it the same way. This is the game that shows whether we absolutely need to make a move. To tell the truth, I've been waffling about Maggette (as if I get a vote - obviously) and see the choice as a very hard one to make. I don't think the Spurs are done with the question yet.

[Bruno]

It's not sure that Maggette will opt out in 08 because he had to play really well to get more than his 08-09 salary.

But just look at players that will be unrestricted free agent in 08 and that will maybe deserve more than the MLE :
Vince Carter
Jeff Foster
Trevor Ariza
Antawn Jamison
Gilberto Arenas
Ricky Davis
Elton Brand
Kwame Brown
Ron Artest

Only Elton Brand is really interesting but Spurs won't be far enough under the cap to offer him the max contract he will be looking for.
Ariza is interesting too but he will likely cost less than the MLE.

[timvp]

I still can't believe the Spurs didn't go after Ariza harder. He ended up getting only three-years and $8M from the Magic.

:pctoss

[Mr. Body]

I still can't believe the Spurs didn't go after Ariza harder. He ended up getting only three-years and $8M from the Magic.


The Spurs just need to steal Isiah's draft notes this year.

A...

Trevor Ariza
David Lee
or
Renaldo Balkman

... would be awesome.

[Bruno]

I still can't believe the Spurs didn't go after Ariza harder. He ended up getting only three-years and $8M from the Magic.

:pctoss

He was restricted, it wasn't that easy.

:pctoss for drafting Sanikidze over Ariza.