Dallas is the only team I really fear

[peskypesky]

Last night they beat the Nuggets in Denver. And they did it without Dirk!

And they are 7-0 in the second night of back-to-back games...

As well as the Spurs are playing, the Mavs seem pretty daunting at this point. And that SUCKS.

[Leetonidas]

Eh, they're peaking now, much like Detroit last year. I'm not saying they're better or worse, but I think they'll slow down eventually.

But thanks for sharing. :toast

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Last night they beat the Nuggets without Carmelo Anthony and JR Smith in Denver. And they did it without Dirk!

And they are 7-0 in the second night of back-to-back games...

As well as the Spurs are playing, the Mavs seem pretty daunting at this point. And that SUCKS.
Fixed.

[peskypesky]

Eh, they're peaking now, much like Detroit last year. I'm not saying they're better or worse, but I think they'll slow down eventually.


God I hope you're right.

[Leetonidas]

Yeah, I thought Nene and Camby weren't playing either?

It's basically like playing the 76ers in the West right now.

[The_Game]

Dallas are better than we are and until we prove it they are the team to beat.

[Shank]

I'm sure Avery would have his team 'peak' in late December. That makes sense.

[ducks]

avery can go to the hawks
or wait he has to go to a team that does not care about money to try to buy a championship

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Only the combination of Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire can stop the Mavericks from winning the NBA Title this year. They aren't 'peaking' as some say, they're the best team in the NBA, bottom line. If they even struggle to beat the Spurs, then something is wrong.

[ducks]

spurs already beat them once this year

[ducks]

Dallas are better than we are and until we prove it they are the team to beat.
heat won the title last year not the mavs

[boutons_]

"much like Detroit last year"

Detroit had the complication/distraction of Larry talking to other teams during the playoffs. I figure that hurt the Pistons in some way. They were clearly much better than the Heat.

The Mavs seems to be on more determinedly on a mission to get back to the Finals than the Spurs are.

Never expect anything convincing or awesome from the Spurs before March. The Mavs still have the fire and motivation to win their first Title,while the Spurs, esp Tim, seem complacent with their 3 Titles. Will Tim ever get B2B Titles?

[ducks]

duncan proved last year year he can turn it up a notch in the playoffs
he was hurt last year going into the playoffs
spur fans have not seen a motivated duncan yet and spurs are in a good postion

[SenorSpur]

I feel exactly the same way. As formidable an opponent as Phoenix will be, it is Dallas that is the major obstacle for the Spurs again this year. That Game 7 victory by the Mavs should have all of the Spurs community concerned. Not for the simple fact that the Mavs advanced to the NBA Finals, it much deeper than that.

That series-clinching victory enabled the Mavs to rid themselves of the long-standing "mental block" the Mavs had against the Spurs. Had the Spurs prevailed, they would have maintained a "decided", long-standing, mental edge against the Mavs. Now that's not the case. In fact, you can make the case the it is the Mavs who now have the mental edge.

Above everything else AJ has brought to that team, he has instilled a type of mental toughness needed to win close games. The same type of mental toughness that our '99 Championship team had. It's very evident that this Mavs team are not the "mental midgets" they were under Don Nelson. When Erick Dampier is being a factor on the court - you know AJ's message is getting through. That's a bad thing for the Spurs.

Be afraid Spurs fans - be very afraid - and keep Manu away from Dirk in the closing seconds of tight games. Cheap shot, I know - but it still hurts.

[ducks]

I do not fear any team tell after the trading deadline

teams can do trades and improve
dallas is one of the best teams in the west but the west is tough
if spurs face the mavs late both teams will be banged up some
hopefully the spurs can sweep teams so they get rest and keep healthy before facing the mavs


seems to me spurs are trying to improve and spurs did bring in new people this year and are practing going small more and hopefuly came april they play better d

[wildbill2u]

Last night they beat the Nuggets in Denver. And they did it without Dirk!

And they are 7-0 in the second night of back-to-back games...

As well as the Spurs are playing, the Mavs seem pretty daunting at this point. And that SUCKS.
Start with Dirk, add Josh Howard, and stir in two guards as good as any pair in the league --and you have a very formidable roster.

Now that they are buying into and executing Avery's system and defense message, they may well be the best in the league this year.

I'm in Dallas for the holidays and have had the opportunity to watch them play the Suns and Nuggets and they look greeat. Spurs v Mavs in the WCF.

[1Parker1]

"much like Detroit last year"

Detroit had the complication/distraction of Larry talking to other teams during the playoffs. I figure that hurt the Pistons in some way. They were clearly much better than the Heat.


:wtf Last year, Flip Saunders coached the entire Pistons season, Larry was already out. Pistons simply choked last year, bottom line. Internal issues between Ben Wallace and Flip Saunders probably had some part in it, but they were still good enough to beat the Heat and take out the Cavs without using 7 games.

[Jimcs50]

Dallas is better than SA right now, no doubt about it.

Josh Howard is better than any Spur not named Tim Duncan. TD and Dirk cancel each other out, and Jason Terry is just as good as TP.
The bench favors SA slightly, but not enough to make a difference.

If SA does make any trades or improve vastly, they will not make it to Finals

[ducks]

sence when did spurs ever so signs of winning the title before april
spurs always start slow
1999 they started slow then came alive

funny that so many people are doubting this team so early

[The_Game]

heat won the title last year not the mavs

I'm talking about the west but I still feel they are the team to beat overall as well. The Heat are not as good as last year, they are a year older, Shaq is on the decline and they did nothing to improve their team. Dallas added some nice pieces this summer while their younger guys keep improving.

George, Buckner, Johnson, Croshere for example while Josh Howard is becoming a star.

[boutons_]

"Flip Saunders coached the entire Pistons season"

oops sorry, one year off :lol

The Pistons were better all year than the Heat. yes, they should have won, surely Flip is somewhere the cause. Ben didn't like Flip, we've heard, etc, etc. Riley with an inferior team beat Flip.

[exstatic]

Only the combination of Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire can stop the Mavericks from winning the NBA Title this year. They aren't 'peaking' as some say, they're the best team in the NBA, bottom line. If they even struggle to beat the Spurs, then something is wrong.
So, something was wrong with Dallas last year? Because they certainly struggled to win a hard fought 7 game series...

[Solid D]

The Spurs and Mavs are so close that each game they play should be a "pick-em" for odds-makers. Last year's playoffs showed that and this season they are 1-1 with the visitors walking away victorious.

It will be another great series if they meet each other in the playoffs (likely but not a guarantee).

"Appropriate Fear", as Pop calls it, is the healthy way to approach playing the Mavs.

[exstatic]

I think Manu will have an MVP type series in any Dallas playoff tilt. He was THAT fucking pissed at his play last year. I would envision something like 20/5/5.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

So, something was wrong with Dallas last year? Because they certainly struggled to win a hard fought 7 game series...

Who's talking about last year? What sense does that make? Dallas beat us on our homecourt last year and improved their team in the offseason. The Spurs got worse. I strongly doubt Avery Johnson loses any sleep about playing the Spurs. The Suns, maybe but not San Antonio.

[itzsoweezee]

avery is an amazing coach. I hope he's coaching the spurs some time in the near future.

are the spurs really going to try to play small ball against dallas come playoffs time (like they did in game 2 vs. dallas this year) or will the spurs play their bigs (like they did in game 1 vs. dallas this year)? i hope its the latter because the spurs are still horrible at playing small ball (blame pop).

[The_Game]

I think Manu will have an MVP type series in any Dallas playoff tilt. He was THAT fucking pissed at his play last year. I would envision something like 20/5/5.

Honestly Manu is not a good enough player to do that through a series anymore. He has always been just a role player.

[ponky]

Yeah, I thought Nene and Camby weren't playing either?

It's basically like playing the 76ers in the West right now.

Nuggets have AI and Melo...we have Dirk and JHO but as great as JHO has been playing I wouldn't say anybody on our team could be paired up with Dirk to balance the Melo/AI duo so if Dirk's out our best player is out but if Melo is out I wouldn't necessarily say their best player is out...I'd say one of their two best players is out. Also, JR Smith was out but so was Stackhouse, evens out.

Camby played last night and had a pretty good game and lately, the AI/Boykins (yes Boykins!) combo has been fairly impressive and annoying because they're both so quick...and I wish we had Najera back, he's stepped up big for the Nuggets, his defense is solid. As for Nene, he's overweight and useless right now, why would he play? K-Mart is another issue, too bad he's just being utilized as a bench warmer right now.

Basically, it's stupid to compare the Nuggets to the 76ers unless you haven't watched any of their games.

Anyway, I don't fear the Spurs because that seems like I'm saying they'll win but I get damn jumpy on gamedays when the two teams play to the point of getting almost sick from adrenaline...however, I wouldn't have it any other way, it's too much fun watching the teams play each other, even if my team loses.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

"much like Detroit last year"

Detroit had the complication/distraction of Larry talking to other teams during the playoffs. I figure that hurt the Pistons in some way. They were clearly much better than the Heat.

The Mavs seems to be on more determinedly on a mission to get back to the Finals than the Spurs are.

Never expect anything convincing or awesome from the Spurs before March. The Mavs still have the fire and motivation to win their first Title,while the Spurs, esp Tim, seem complacent with their 3 Titles. Will Tim ever get B2B Titles?


I really don't think so at all

Last year was his best shot but we know what happend there.


And yes, Dallas is the best team int he league right now and with the way SA is playing, there's a much bigger gap between the two than just a game as the standings would show.

There's a long way before the playoffs, but I don't even think Dallas themselves are peaking right now, they are simply playing very well. With the rest of the team not needing to rely on Dirk so much as they've made some nice strides, it only makes them that more dangeorus and well balanced.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

As a Spurs fan, I hate to admit it, but after seeing the Spurs lose last year in the playoffs, their most recent loss to Dallas this season, and Dallas awesome play this season, the Spurs, unless Dirk gets injured,will not have the benefit of the doubt in the playoffs aginst the Mavs. If the Spurs win it WILL be an upset. Period. The Spurs have given up their position as the best team in the west on account of their lack of athleticism and consistent three point shooting (Barry, Manu are great but Michael "Wont-Go-Inly" is not providing us with any consitency, neither is Udrih.

[exstatic]

Honestly Manu is not a good enough player to do that through a series anymore. He has always been just a role player.
Right, because a banged and bruised and exhausted Manu only averaged 21p/4r/2a against them last year in the series...in only 35 minutes, per game.

The 20/5/5 is not a stretch for Manu. He's put up numbers close to that maybe 4 or 5 times in playoff series. Don't underestimate a pissed off individual.

[exstatic]

As a Spurs fan, I hate to admit it, but after seeing the Spurs lose last year in the playoffs, their most recent loss to Dallas this season, and Dallas awesome play this season, the Spurs, unless Dirk gets injured,will not have the benefit of the doubt in the playoffs aginst the Mavs. If the Spurs win it WILL be an upset. Period. The Spurs have given up their position as the best team in the west on account of their lack of athleticism and consistent three point shooting (Barry, Manu are great but Michael "Wont-Go-Inly" is not providing us with any consitency, neither is Udrih.
Spurs are leading the league in 3 point shooting (.413) and it's not really close, and why is it that if anyone briings up good play by SA, "It's only the regular season", but Dallas is anointed champs with the same regular season play?

[Texas_Ranger]

Me too, but I still believe that Spurs are better.:fro

[Solid D]

As a Spurs fan, I hate to admit it, but after seeing the Spurs lose last year in the playoffs, their most recent loss to Dallas this season, and Dallas awesome play this season, the Spurs, unless Dirk gets injured,will not have the benefit of the doubt in the playoffs aginst the Mavs. If the Spurs win it WILL be an upset. Period. The Spurs have given up their position as the best team in the west on account of their lack of athleticism and consistent three point shooting (Barry, Manu are great but Michael "Wont-Go-Inly" is not providing us with any consitency, neither is Udrih.

1. Benefit of the doubt? With who, the refs? They didn't have it last year either...if that's what you are saying.

2. Three point shooting with the Spurs is better than any other team so that point falls by the wayside also.

3. "Period." Why not just use "." and economize?

Think through what you are going to say first. Your argument will carry more validity.

[Solid D]

Honestly Manu is not a good enough player to do that through a series anymore. He has always been just a role player.

And what "role" is that?

[Cry Havoc]

Dallas is better than SA right now, no doubt about it.

Josh Howard is better than any Spur not named Tim Duncan. TD and Dirk cancel each other out, and Jason Terry is just as good as TP.
The bench favors SA slightly, but not enough to make a difference.

If SA does make any trades or improve vastly, they will not make it to Finals

Tony Parker is playing much, much better this year than Terry. Last year he led the NBA in points in the paint for much of the year... a point guard! How can you possibly say they're =?

Parker is averaging more points (19.6 vs. 16.3), MORE assists (6.1 vs. 4.8, despite the notion that Parker is not a passer), and more rebounds than Terry (3.2 vs. 2.7). That's right. Tony Parker is averaging more points, boards, and assists than Terry. But he plays more, right? Wrong. Parker is averaging 33 mpg, while Terry averages 34.8. Should I mention that Parker is shooting 53% while Terry is at 45.6%? Or that Parker is getting to the line far more frequently WHILE getting more assists? On a team that usually gets the point a low # of assists because we're notorious for making 3-4 passes per possession?

Sorry, but when I saw your post I immediately signed up for the boards. Making vast general statements like Terry = Parker discounts not only Parker's incredible improvement as a point guard overall, but the complete differences in the game they play. Parker can collapse a defense at will, and with a paint presence like Duncan that is irreplacable, not to mention the 3 point shooting the Spurs have this year.

Also, Dirk and Duncan do NOT cancel out. Tim Duncan is perhaps the best crunch-time defender in the NBA. Make no mistake, he WILL show up in the playoffs. Dirk is slightly superior on offense during the regular season, but when Duncan sets his mind to it, he is unguardable. Period (since apparently we're into typing out punctuation on these boards). I wouldn't ever trade Timmy for Dirk. The defense is just too valuable to give up. Watch down the stretch of the season, when games really make a difference. Duncan will be swatting balls all over the court to get the Spurs a #1 seed.

Howard is a great player. Yet the Mavs have two great players. Dirk and Howard. The Spurs have three. Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili. I'll take that against the Mavs starters anyday, especially if Bowen and Barry are knocking down shots.

How can it possibly be said that the Mavs are "clearly" the better team when we're not even halfway into the season and a sole game is the difference between the two? The Spurs are averaging an almost double-digit point difference, while the Mavs are around 6.5. That to me is an equally valid comparison as a record that is so similiar.

If the Spurs stay healthy and the 3 point shooting answers the call this post-season, I don't fear the Mavs. I'm eagerly awaiting the matchup, because I know it will be a great one.

[johngateswhiteley]

some of you guys are just...stupid.

1. dallas beat the Spurs last time without Manu playing
2. dallas has a one game better record
3. the teams play each other in a few days

[DubMcDub]

some of you guys are just...stupid.

1. dallas beat the Spurs last time without Manu playing
2. dallas has a one game better record
3. the teams play each other in a few days

1. He played for over half the game.
2. Only because the Mavs started 0-4 when they were essentially a completely different team with a different starting lineup
3. Yes.

[boutons_]

Mavs have a more balanced offense, 5 players with 10+ PPG, and then Dampier at 9 PPG.

Spurs have only 3 players with 10+ PPG, and the dropoff from there is steep.

It was the Spurs' invisible bench in WCF Game7 that killed the Spurs.

The Spurs' only hope vs Mavs is find their defense and play it 48 minutes, not dig themselves into huge holes like they did 3 or 4 games in the WCF.

[InAmerica]

Honestly Manu is not a good enough player to do that through a series anymore. He has always been just a role player.

OH NO YOU DIDNT SAY THAT YOU LITTLE BITCH.

Seriously, if you say that you have no fucking clue.

[mavs>spurs2]

lol

[Leetonidas]

"much like Detroit last year"

Detroit had the complication/distraction of Larry talking to other teams during the playoffs. I figure that hurt the Pistons in some way. They were clearly much better than the Heat.

The Mavs seems to be on more determinedly on a mission to get back to the Finals than the Spurs are.

Never expect anything convincing or awesome from the Spurs before March. The Mavs still have the fire and motivation to win their first Title,while the Spurs, esp Tim, seem complacent with their 3 Titles. Will Tim ever get B2B Titles?
WTF are you talking about? That was 2 years ago, not last year.

[Cry Havoc]

Mavs have a more balanced offense, 5 players with 10+ PPG, and then Dampier at 9 PPG.

Really? Barry averages 9 PPG. That's a steep drop from 10? Perhaps you should do your research....

Finley is checking in at 7.6 and Bowen gets 7.0. So that's three more players that average 7 PPG or more for the Spurs, meaning 6 players on the team can easily reach double figures on any given night. Meanwhile, the Spurs bench is much deeper, and it's odd... for having a more balanced offense, the Mavs are scoring less PPG and giving up more. I guess that constitutes as "better" in the eyes of some people.

[Solid D]

Mavs can look forward to Friday, but the Spurs have a couple games on the road to concern themselves with first.

When Friday does come, it will be nice to see Manu play in the 4th quarter when these games are normally decided. Manu does have some extra incentive, as exstatic mentioned.

[dallaskd]

the mavs have the best starting lineup in the nba other than detriot. and i think we have the best bench too. its alot better than SA's bench...who ever that guy who said the spurs bench is deeper is smoking some really stong shit.

Jerry Stackhouse
Greg Buckner
Deavan George
Anthony Johnson
Austin Croshere
Desagana Diop

vs.

Brent Barry
Michael Finely
Matt Bonner
Fabricio Oberto
Beno Udrih
Eric Williams

[phxspurfan]

werent we saying things like this about Detroit last year around this time? Midseason effectiveness and mid-playoff effectiveness are two different animals. Needless to say, it will be an awesome series to watch and we will probably get a sense as to who is the better coach after this one, if it happens (in terms of adjustments).

[SenorSpur]

Another negative for the Spurs that is crucial to this matchup is REBOUNDING - or the lack thereof. The Spurs weren't a good rebounding team last year - getting outrebounded in 11-13 playoff games.

They are worse this year. Tim is our best rebounder and even HIS rebound numbers are down.

The Mavs crash the glass and thrive on second shot opportunities. This is a major concern.

[PhxDog]

Dallas is the only team I really fear
Bet you weren't saying that in January of 2006...

[The_Game]

OH NO YOU DIDNT SAY THAT YOU LITTLE BITCH.

Seriously, if you say that you have no fucking clue.

I just did moron

Manu is not that good. He is a good player who can score but is really only on jason terry's level. which isn't bad but he is no star player who you should depend on that much. He's there to fill a role and be the 3rd scorer.

[VaSpursFan]

if any team fears another, they shouldn't be playing basketball.

the spurs should have no fear of dallas, they only lost by a slim margin in last years playoffs. if anything, the mavs need to make sure that the hangover from losing 4 straight in the finals doesn't carry over into the playoffs when the stakes are a lot higher. in fact, i'm curious to see how they will respond to adversity in the playoffs this year. will they stand tall or become the buffalo bills of the nba?

[The_Game]

Mavs are a different team than last year, I don't think it will effect them. Last year was last year. They are pretty strong mentally. Really we have to prove we are mentally ok for the playoffs after throwing away game 7 last year. works both ways really.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

1. Benefit of the doubt? With who, the refs? They didn't have it last year either...if that's what you are saying.

2. Three point shooting with the Spurs is better than any other team so that point falls by the wayside also.

3. "Period." Why not just use "." and economize?

Think through what you are going to say first. Your argument will carry more validity.

1. Yes, the benefit of the doubt with the refs; Why? because dallas players drive the ball, and the Spurs are too hesitant, soft, and old --they will not be able to stand in front of their man, so they'll just grab like they've been doing with a lot of other athletic teams.

2. Relative to the Mavs, I consider the Spurs to be not so good a three point shooting team. This is a mavs/spurs topic isn't it? I'm not comparing the Spurs to any other team.

3. I'm entitled to type any way I want. And you use the term economize as if it doesnt apply to you, because your not doing much of it yourself with your pointless ridicule/correcting. :rolleyes

[1Parker1]

1. Yes, the benefit of the doubt with the refs; Why? because dallas players drive the ball, and the Spurs are too hesitant, soft, and old --they will not be able to stand in front of their man, so they'll just grab like they've been doing with a lot of other athletic teams.

2. Relative to the Mavs, I consider the Spurs to be not so good a three point shooting team. This is a mavs/spurs topic isn't it? I'm not comparing the Spurs to any other team.

3. I'm entitled to type any way I want.


2. In response to the 3 point shooting, Spurs lead the entire league in 3 point shooting, that includes the Mavs.

[mavsfan1000]

Last year I thought the spurs were the better team but once Harris was inserted into the lineup that is when the mavs were brought to the next level. Now this year they started off with Buckner in the starting lineup which was the worst option as a starter. Insert Harris back in the starting lineup and boom they are 24-3 in the last 27 games. I think the biggest advantage of having Harris in the starting lineup is his great defense against opposing point guards.

[Cherry]

werent we saying things like this about Detroit last year around this time?

yes

[Ronaldo McDonald]

2. In response to the 3 point shooting, Spurs lead the entire league in 3 point shooting, that includes the Mavs.

Yes, but I do understand that the Spurs also have a poor record against the "good" teams. How well do they shoot the three against those teams? The Mavs?

I'm not convinced the Spurs are better then the Mavs, much less the even Suns, at shooting the three, despite what stastics show. In a seven game series against one of those teams, I find it hard to believe the Spurs three point percentage wouldn't drop, at least a little. When you think about the success the spurs have had against the bad teams and the lack of against the good teams, I dont think it would be wrong to surmise that the statistics may not be very reliable when put you put the Spurs and Mavs in a series and evaluate certain particulars such as three point shooting percentage. I would think that there would be some disparity...

[Solid D]

Yes, but I do understand that the Spurs also have a poor record against the "good" teams. How well do they shoot the three against those teams? The Mavs?

I'm not convinced the Spurs are better then the Mavs, much less the even Suns, at shooting the three, despite what stastics show. In a seven game series against one of those teams, I find it hard to believe the Spurs three point percentage wouldn't drop, at least a little. When you think about the success the spurs have had against the bad teams and the lack of against the good teams, I dont think it would be wrong to surmise that the statistics may not be very reliable when put you put the Spurs and Mavs in a series and evaluate certain particulars such as three point shooting percentage. I would think that there would be some disparity...

...which has nothing to do with your original point. Yes, the Spurs' 3 point shooting will probably drop below 40% against the Mavs or Suns. They are the #3 and #1 ranked teams respectively in Opp. 3 Pt. %. It doesn't necessarily mean that 3-pt. shooting is the key in the Spurs/Mavs matchups.
The Spurs shot 57% (8-14) from the arc and lost to Mavs in Game 4 of the playoffs last year.

[Budkin]

Plain and simple, rebounding killed us last year. If we don't improve in the rebounding department, we will fall to the Mavs again.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I just did moron

Manu is not that good. He is a good player who can score but is really only on jason terry's level. which isn't bad but he is no star player who you should depend on that much. He's there to fill a role and be the 3rd scorer.Where the fuck have you been for the past 3 playoffs??

[TwoHandJam]

What I don't like about the Spurs vs. Dallas matchup is our lack of perimeter defense. Dallas has many players that like to break down defenses by driving ... Harris, Terry, Dirk, Howard, Stackhouse. All those guys can put pressure on our defense and usually break it down, either creating scoring opportunities or putting key players in foul trouble.

We can only really counter with three reasonably good perimeter defenders in Parker, Bowen and Manu. That's five threats vs. three and this creates big problems. When the Spurs D breaks down on the perimiter, the last line of defense is the interior D and since David's retirement and Horry's precipitous decline, our interior D has been soft at best. Relying on Elson to be a shotblocker in crunch time during playoff games is risky to say the least and he still isn't comfortable with the system.

I'd also say our lack of rebounding that's carried over from last year is equally deadly against a team like Dallas that likes to crash the boards. You just can't afford to give such an efficient offensive team like that second chances. It's suicide. If I'm not mistaken, the Mavs have not lost a contest this year when they've outrebounded their opponents.

Avery knows the Spurs system better than any other opposing coach and he exploits the weaknesses in our personnel very efficiently. Unless we can address these two key areas (perimeter defense, rebounding) we are going to be at a disadvantage in a series against the Mavs.

[SenorSpur]

What I don't like about the Spurs vs. Dallas matchup is our lack of perimeter defense. Dallas has many players that like to break down defenses by driving ... Harris, Terry, Dirk, Howard, Stackhouse. All those guys can put pressure on our defense and usually break it down, either creating scoring opportunities or putting key players in foul trouble.

We can only really counter with three reasonably good perimeter defenders in Parker, Bowen and Manu. That's five threats vs. three and this creates big problems. When the Spurs D breaks down on the perimiter, the last line of defense is the interior D and since David's retirement and Horry's precipitous decline, our interior D has been soft at best. Relying on Elson to be a shotblocker in crunch time during playoff games is risky to say the least and he still isn't comfortable with the system.

I'd also say our lack of rebounding that's carried over from last year is equally deadly against a team like Dallas that likes to crash the boards. You just can't afford to give such an efficient offensive team like that second chances. It's suicide. If I'm not mistaken, the Mavs have not lost a contest this year when they've outrebounded their opponents.

Avery knows the Spurs system better than any other opposing coach and he exploits the weaknesses in our personnel very efficiently. Unless we can address these two key areas (perimeter defense, rebounding) we are going to be at a disadvantage in a series against the Mavs.

Very well said. :clap

You have articulated wonderfully the obvious weaknesses and vulnerabilities with this version of our Spurs team.

That's what happens when you invest in two 34+ year-old swingmen (Barry & Finley), who both are defensive liabilitites.

Over the course of the summer, Pop has continue to claim that fans have over-emphasized the age on the Spurs roster and that we wouldn't be complaining had the team won that Game 7. I say BULLSHIT. :bang

This team got brutalized on the perimeter by the Mavs and I had hoped the FO would have done something to address this during the offseason - they did not. If he wants to play "small ball", he absolutely needed to get quicker and longer on the perimeter - especially with the recent rule changes.

Unless the pull the proverbial "rabbit out of their ass" before the trade deadline, expect the Spurs to get exposed again if they face the Mavs in a 7-game series.

[exstatic]

I just did moron

Manu is not that good. He is a good player who can score but is really only on jason terry's level. which isn't bad but he is no star player who you should depend on that much. He's there to fill a role and be the 3rd scorer.
Jason Terry goes to bed at night and dreams of being on Manu's level of clutchness and playoff stepup ability. As MANY here have pointed out, regular season doesn't matter, and that's the only time they may be on the same level.

[Amarelooms]

Jason Terry goes to bed at night and dreams of being on Manu's level of clutchness and playoff stepup ability. As MANY here have pointed out, regular season doesn't matter, and that's the only time they may be on the same level.

Lol whatever Spurs homer. Manu and clutchness?? Based on what lol. I rather have Terry taking a game winning shot than Manu.....

[Ronaldo McDonald]

...which has nothing to do with your original point. Yes, the Spurs' 3 point shooting will probably drop below 40% against the Mavs or Suns. They are the #3 and #1 ranked teams respectively in Opp. 3 Pt. %. It doesn't necessarily mean that 3-pt. shooting is the key in the Spurs/Mavs matchups.
The Spurs shot 57% (8-14) from the arc and lost to Mavs in Game 4 of the playoffs last year.

How does it not have anything to do with my original post?

Maybe you need to read my original post again, because I'm not going to go over it for you.

And, I never said that three point shooting was the one and only KEY in a Mavs/Spurs matchup. It was one of two. And I dont merely consider the general three point percentage shooting key, but more important, consistency in the area from players I have already mentioned. It's key because it keeps Mavs players on their toes, and if players are missing long, it means defensive rebounds will be long, which triggers a transition offense, something the spurs are not suited to defend given the age of some of their players.

Last year, when the Spurs played the Mavs in the playoffs, Robert Horry was practically useless because he couldn't hit the three; needless to say, if he was hitting, even occasionally, they would have taken the series. How many potential daggers did he miss (or not take) last year? And three point shooting isn't important?

[VaSpursFan]

Dallas has many players that like to break down defenses by driving ... Harris, Terry, Dirk, Howard, Stackhouse. All those guys can put pressure on our defense and usually break it down, either creating scoring opportunities or putting key players in foul trouble.

this is the perfect seque into the maggette thread. this is what maggette can bring to the table which is really critical during playoffs, a rebounding swing man that slashes to the basket causing all kinds of havoc on defenses and getting key folks into foul trouble...while hitting his foul shots.

[TwoHandJam]

this is the perfect seque into the maggette thread. this is what maggette can bring to the table which is really critical during playoffs, a rebounding swing man that slashes to the basket causing all kinds of havoc on defenses and getting key folks into foul trouble...while hitting his foul shots.
True, sometimes the best defense is a good offense. I don't think this is true all or even most of the time but the Spurs have definitely lost some of their defensive edge this year in no small part because of the roster they have. They have been trying to win games with their offense more and I'm not sure it's by design or necessity.

Maggette certainly wouldn't bolster our defense but he couldn't be worse than Barry (could he?), he puts pressure on opposing defenses, he'd help our rebounding, he's younger and he would fit in a smallball lineup (ugh). Hard to argue with that.

[Leetonidas]

Lol whatever Spurs homer. Manu and clutchness?? Based on what lol. I rather have Terry taking a game winning shot than Manu.....
And have him miss it right?

But what about the lose ball Manu will dive for?

Or the steal he will get?

Or the block?

Or the perfect pass?

Or shredding the defense?

Or splitting defenders?

Or knocking down a three?

Or getting to the foul line?

Manu Ginobili doesn't need to score to be clutch, he does everything well in crunch time.

[phxspurfan]

yes


nice sig! I was gonna comment on the heights of the players, but on second glance, they look really accurate! =P

[VaSpursFan]

True, sometimes the best defense is a good offense. I don't think this is true all or even most of the time but the Spurs have definitely lost some of their defensive edge this year in no small part because of the roster they have. They have been trying to win games with their offense more and I'm not sure it's by design or necessity.

Maggette certainly wouldn't bolster our defense but he couldn't be worse than Barry (could he?), he puts pressure on opposing defenses, he'd help our rebounding, he's younger and he would fit in a smallball lineup (ugh). Hard to argue with that.

the rules have changed the game making the typical spurs lockdown defense less effective. we need to adapt. maybe our focus shifts to rebounding versus lockdown d. dallas isn't known as a defensive lockdown team, but they sure do rebound the hell out of the ball. we should have learned from this last season...which means we need to address this. as you mention, if we go small ball, it would be nice to have a 3 on the court that would aggressively rebound the ball unlike bruce. i love bruce, but you can't box out a 7 footer, you just have to go after the ball harder than him and make him come over the back.

right now we're not doing either particularly well. we gotta pick our poison.

[SenorSpur]

Maggette certainly wouldn't bolster our defense but he couldn't be worse than Barry (could he?), he puts pressure on opposing defenses, he'd help our rebounding, he's younger and he would fit in a smallball lineup (ugh). Hard to argue with that.

Another home run!

For everyone who claims Maggette isn't a good defensive player - my answer to that is neither are Finley and Barry. The Spurs have plenty of shooters. By using Maggette to break down opposing defenses and get to the FT line, the Spurs will have yet another weapon for late game situations. After all, Maggette is an 87% FT shooter.

The Spurs absolutely HAVE to do this deal. Frankly, I'm surprised no one has made a deal for him yet.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Despite thoughts that if we had won game 7 pop would've been seen as a genius for small ball, I honestly think if Terry wasn't suspended for game 6 (which was his fault for getting suspended I know) the series would've been over in 6



I hope a good trade happens in february or a miraculous burst in rebounding

I dont mean to downplay the suns but I think we can handle them in a 7 game series

The Mavs are our primary focus

It's a shame they have to play us on the end of a b2b even though they're a tidy 7-0 on b2b's this season

damn mavs fans, appreciate how much props I'm giving your team this may not happen again!

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Isn't January a little bit too early for you bandwagon folk to be starting panic threads? For all you "worried" little bitches, maybe you guys should just be Mav fans an than have nothing to worry about. Its pathetic how some of you guys are quick to give up on our season, and then call out our players for being soft. Maybe we should start some threads about how soft some of our fans are.

Meanwhile, I'll hold judgment on our team and its season come March/April. Until then some of you head cases should take some paxil and put this season in to prospective. There's still a whole lot of basketball to be played from now through the playoffs. Many things can happen from now and then. And can some one please tell me when have the Spurs ever made any noise pre-rodeo road trip? Besides not to take away from the mavs, but they only have a one game difference in their record from this year compared to last year.

[gilmor]

Never underestimate the heart of the true champions.. the Spurs..
Anyway, I think Spurs vs Mavs will go for broke.. 7 games .. and it will be tense as last year

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Despite thoughts that if we had won game 7 pop would've been seen as a genius for small ball, I honestly think if Terry wasn't suspended for game 6 (which was his fault for getting suspended I know) the series would've been over in 6
My thoughts exactly! Any thing can happen. I don't look at this mav team the same way I looked at the Shaq/Kobe laker teams. When we played the lakers we flat out got our asses handed to us. Last year we put up a great fight with out even playing our style of basketball. And this year the season series is split at one a piece. During both games both teams didn't really do anything to separate them selves from another IMO. It will be interesting to see how the game on Friday will play out. :)

[Pablo Escobar]

poeple forget its just a job to these guy they could give a shit about the season untill they get to the playoffs
and i bet its like if we lose then its just an early vacation

[SenorSpur]

Isn't January a little bit too early for you bandwagon folk to be starting panic threads? For all you "worried" little bitches, maybe you guys should just be Mav fans an than have nothing to worry about. Its pathetic how some of you guys are quick to give up on our season, and then call out our players for being soft. Maybe we should start some threads about how soft some of our fans are.

Meanwhile, I'll hold judgment on our team and its season come March/April. Until then some of you head cases should take some paxil and put this season in to prospective. There's still a whole lot of basketball to be played from now through the playoffs. Many things can happen from now and then. And can some one please tell me when have the Spurs ever made any noise pre-rodeo road trip? Besides not to take away from the mavs, but they only have a one game difference in their record from this year compared to last year.

I don't think anyone here is "jumping off the Spurs bandwagon". However, you'd have to be crazy to not be concerned about the Mavs. Weren't you watching the WCSF? Did you see how the Mavs exploited the Spurs - especially out on the perimeter?

It's not just enough to look at the Mavs record, you must look at how they're playing. How they're carving teams up. They are not having the periods of complacency, the lack of focus and the defensive breakdowns the Spurs are seeming to have.

Of course, there is a lot of basketball left and no one is here to "suck up" to the Mavs. We're basically giving way to realistic concerns on where the Spurs are vulnerable and confirming the fact that the Mavs are indeed a dangerous team. They will be the primary obstacle for the Spurs. It will take a flawless performance from the Spurs to beat them this Friday and in the playoffs.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

My thoughts exactly! Any thing can happen. I don't look at this mav team the same way I looked at the Shaq/Kobe laker teams. When we played the lakers we flat out got our asses handed to us. Last year we put up a great fight with out even playing our style of basketball. And this year the season series is split at one a piece. During both games both teams didn't really do anything to separate them selves from another IMO. It will be interesting to see how the game on Friday will play out. :)


Oh I know some of us are still doom and gloom as though we have 0 chance of winning the championship, plus its only January, but Friday will be a nice test to see where we're at but there' still a good amount of work to be done.

I think some of us are just antsy that the rebounding problems haven't been addressed, plus Pop's substitution patterns are the worst they've ever been.

But a long time between now and April, so let's hope everything works out for us

[SenorSpur]

Oh I know some of us are still doom and gloom as though we have 0 chance of winning the championship, plus its only January, but Friday will be a nice test to see where we're at but there' still a good amount of work to be done.

I think some of us are just antsy that the rebounding problems haven't been addressed, plus Pop's substitution patterns are the worst they've ever been.

But a long time between now and April, so let's hope everything works out for us

I'd feel a lot better if Elson were healthy and playing in THIS game.

[RonMexico]

Until the refs start calling over the back, no one will ever out-rebound the Mavs

[T Park]

plus Pop's substitution patterns are the worst they've ever been.



You people are such goobers.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

You people are such goobers.

oh come on T Park

Despite my bitching I almost never pick on Pop, but some of his lineups to begin the 4th quarter have been atrocious


Also dumb things like keeping Duncan in at the last minute of games where it comes down to free throws (a la' the Phoenix game) was foolish

[Solid D]

As a Spurs fan, I hate to admit it, but after seeing the Spurs lose last year in the playoffs, their most recent loss to Dallas this season, and Dallas awesome play this season, the Spurs, unless Dirk gets injured,will not have the benefit of the doubt in the playoffs aginst the Mavs. If the Spurs win it WILL be an upset. Period. The Spurs have given up their position as the best team in the west on account of their lack of athleticism and consistent three point shooting (Barry, Manu are great but Michael "Wont-Go-Inly" is not providing us with any consitency, neither is Udrih.

1. You clarified in your follow-up post that you meant the officials. You may be correct, since they didn't exactly get any help from the officials last year either.

2. I agree that the Spurs lack the athleticism of the Mavs. The Spurs have two players who can penetrate and break defenses down to create scoring chances. If Tony or Manu sits, the Spurs are more predictable and defensible. I disagree with your premise that the Spurs have given up their position as the best team in the west in part because of their lack of consistent three point shooting. Others seemed to have read your comments shown above and seen them for what they were, also. I wouldn't have disagreed with you if you had listed their lack of rebounding or poor shot-blocking and interior defense as reasons.

3. Dallas is hot right now and they lead the Spurs by one game. If the Spurs win on Friday, I doubt many NBA people will be calling it an "upset". If the Spurs win, it will be because they are more consistent with their defensive intensity and execution.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I'd feel a lot better if Elson were healthy and playing in THIS game.


oh damn I forgot about that


I wanted to see if his D on Nowitzki was for real or if it was just a one time thing

Although, out of all the Mavs players, the one I'm most concerned with is actually Josh Howard

[T Park]

but some of his lineups to begin the 4th quarter have been atrocious


Yeah, cause thats what loses games, bad lineups.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Yeah, cause thats what loses games, bad lineups.


A lineup of Oberto, Finley, Udrih, Horry, and Barry will not win you many games or help you keep up the momentum or dig the hole you are out of


That Phoenix game we easily could've lost thanks to Pop's decision to keep TD on the floor during FT time, had Bell not missed the FT.


Lineups are the difference between going on a 18-2 run or letting a team down 20 back into the game

[THE SIXTH MAN]

I don't think anyone here is "jumping off the Spurs bandwagon".
I didn't say everyone I said some people.



However, you'd have to be crazy to not be concerned about the Mavs. Weren't you watching the WCSF? Did you see how the Mavs exploited the Spurs - especially out on the perimeter? There's a difference between discussing issues with our team, and just flat out anointing another team champions before the end of the regular season. The trading deadline is in February, and if this FO doesn't make any moves to address those needs, then it will be even more interesting to see how that series would play out this time around. :fro


It's not just enough to look at the Mavs record, you must look at how they're playing. How they're carving teams up. They are not having the periods of complacency, the lack of focus and the defensive breakdowns the Spurs are seeming to have.
I saw a tenacious Detroit team just straight up annihilate teams last year. By no means am I saying that Dallas is this years Detroit though. My point is we play 82 games a season for a reason. And we also play a play off format for the same reasons as well. Anything can happen my friend during a playoff series.


Of course, there is a lot of basketball left and no one is here to "suck up" to the Mavs. We're basically giving way to realistic concerns on where the Spurs are vulnerable and confirming the fact that the Mavs are indeed a dangerous team. They will be the primary obstacle for the Spurs. It will take a flawless performance from the Spurs to beat them this Friday and in the playoffs.
Like I said there's a difference between discussing weaknesses(which I'm all for) and anointing a team champs. Who's to say that well even play the mavs this year? I mean we spent this off season trying to assemble a "small ball line up", and now were struggling against teams with young bigs like the rockets.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Isn't January a little bit too early for you bandwagon folk to be starting panic threads? For all you "worried" little bitches, maybe you guys should just be Mav fans an than have nothing to worry about. Its pathetic how some of you guys are quick to give up on our season, and then call out our players for being soft. Maybe we should start some threads about how soft some of our fans are.

Meanwhile, I'll hold judgment on our team and its season come March/April. Until then some of you head cases should take some paxil and put this season in to prospective. There's still a whole lot of basketball to be played from now through the playoffs. Many things can happen from now and then. And can some one please tell me when have the Spurs ever made any noise pre-rodeo road trip? Besides not to take away from the mavs, but they only have a one game difference in their record from this year compared to last year.

I don't think anyone is "worried", but rather, skeptic, at least I am. Skeptic as a result of practically no proven scorer playing alongside Duncan, inconsistent play by Finley, Udrih, and Horry, Elson, Oberto, that, after really 2 years 3 three of them--Finley, Udrih, and Horry--can't seem to find a way to score, or play in front of their man esp. the backcourt players of the Mavs. Third, Who the hell is playing back up point? Udrih, at this point would better suited for that position on the Silver Stars. Their isn't any untapped potential on the Spurs; Finley and Horry? They need to go on a season and playoff long tear for the Spurs to have any chance at going deep, but at their age, they are more likely to tear one of their tendons or muscles. And Oberto? He def. isn't the answer to fill the void at the PF position.

Spurs need young, fresh legs; they need athleticism, esp. in the backcourt.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

I don't think anyone is "worried", but rather, skeptic, at least I am. Skeptic as a result of practically no proven scorer playing alongside Duncan, inconsistent play by Finley, Udrih, and Horry, Elson, Oberto, that, after really 2 years 3 three of them--Finley, Udrih, and Horry--can't seem to find a way to score, or play in front of their man esp. the backcourt players of the Mavs. Third, Who the hell is playing back up point? Udrih, at this point would better suited for that position on the Silver Stars. Their isn't any untapped potential on the Spurs; Finley and Horry? They need to go on a season and playoff long tear for the Spurs to have any chance at going deep, but at their age, they are more likely to tear one of their tendons or muscles. And Oberto? He def. isn't the answer to fill the void at the PF position.

Spurs need young, fresh legs; they need athleticism, esp. in the backcourt.
Now this is what I like a good discussion about our team and where it stands, not about what another teams doing. Like I posted earlier, I didn't say every one in this thread was worried and making premature assessments of our season. I just said some.

Any ways, you do bring up valid points on Finley and Beno. I don't think we need to wast any more time and roster space for these guys. I dont think finley should be getting as much pt as hes getting. As for Beno, well hes out of the main rotations. Bonner should be getting Horrys minutes and I hope he does soon. I hope the spurs are really trying to get Maggette. Because This team is only as good as are star players can take us. Come playoff time the rotations should go down to 7 or 8 guys. If we get Magette, then we should be better suited for a series against the mavs. Although I don't agree that we have a need for our back court, the need we have is for a younger longer wing man.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

1. You clarified in your follow-up post that you meant the officials. You may be correct, since they didn't exactly get any help from the officials last year either.

2. I agree that the Spurs lack the athleticism of the Mavs. The Spurs have two players who can penetrate and break defenses down to create scoring chances. If Tony or Manu sits, the Spurs are more predictable and defensible. I disagree with your premise that the Spurs have given up their position as the best team in the west in part because of their lack of consistent three point shooting. Others seemed to have read your comments shown above and seen them for what they were, also. I wouldn't have disagreed with you if you had listed their lack of rebounding or poor shot-blocking and interior defense as reasons.

3. Dallas is hot right now and they lead the Spurs by one game. If the Spurs win on Friday, I doubt many NBA people will be calling it an "upset". If the Spurs win, it will be because they are more consistent with their defensive intensity and execution.

When I said athleticism, I took into account rebounding, shotblocking, and defensive intensity. Ther lack of athleticism is why they aren't good at those things. You just can't benefit from athleticism, you benifit from what athleticism allows--like those things mentioned; although I should have specified as to what exactly I was taking into account when I said "athleticism" I figured you would understand it as a way of just saying " improvement in all areas of the game that would benefit from it, primarily defense--which includes shot blocking, and though you might not consider it a part of defense: rebounding".

Just wanted to make that clear; needless to say are views now don't seem as dissimilar to eachother as intitially perceived. :toast

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Now this is what I like a good discussion about our team and where it stands, not about what another teams doing. Like I posted earlier, I didn't say every one in this thread was worried and making premature assessments of our season. I just said some.

Any ways, you do bring up valid points on Finley and Beno. I don't think we need to wast any more time and roster space for these guys. I dont think finley should be getting as much pt as hes getting. As for Beno, well hes out of the main rotations. Bonner should be getting Horrys minutes and I hope he does soon. I hope the spurs are really trying to get Maggette. Because This team is only as good as are star players can take us. Come playoff time the rotations should go down to 7 or 8 guys. If we get Magette, then we should be better suited for a series against the mavs. Although I don't agree that we have a need for our back court, the need we have is for a younger longer wing man.

Sorry, I thought a wing man was a part of the backcourt; if not, yes, I meant front court.

[himat]

:wtf Last year, Flip Saunders coached the entire Pistons season, Larry was already out. Pistons simply choked last year, bottom line. Internal issues between Ben Wallace and Flip Saunders probably had some part in it, but they were still good enough to beat the Heat and take out the Cavs without using 7 games.

It was a combination of things.

Game 1 loss at home. Could of easily got the win, but somehow lost the game when Miami went on a run with Wade, and Shaq on the bench.

Flip losing control and being outcoached

Sheed's injury. He was playing on one leg, and his advantage over Haslem was neutralized.

Wade being hot, but also getting to the line many times made him close to unstoppable.

All this was just too much for the Pistons. Not only did they play bad, but all these other things made it extremely hard for them to reach the Finals. Game 6 was horrible. Not only was the team out of control and panicking, but Sheed and Chauncey looked like they were worse than Udonis and Williams.

[dg7md]

We have faults, but some of you Spurs fans are so pessimistic it's shameful. How do you think fans of the Kings, Warriors, Sixers, etc. feel like? They'd love to have a team like ours to cheer for.

I'm happy if they can pull out one more ring in the Duncan era, I'm a realistic fan and I am fully aware the NBA is changing and there's now about 5 legit teams as opposed to 2-3 that it's been the last few years.

[exstatic]

SA >>>>>>>>>>>> Phoenix

Our spotty defense and rebounding this year still outdoes theirs. They are strictly a one trick pony: RUN.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I can't believe what I am reading ... Let's wait until March or so before we start 'fearing' anybody. Dork and mavs are playing well right now with 2 double digit winning streaks. I saw that they were 22-3 since starting 0-4 but in the end they have a whopping 1 game lead..everyone needs to relax

:reading

[Mark in Austin]

Elson/Oberto will defend Dirk better than our long 3/4s did last year, which will help the D since Bowen can focus on Howard. Let Dirk get his, much like the Spurs let Amare do in the '05 WCFs.

I don't think Dirk was the source of what caused the biggest problems last year. It was Harris and Terry in the backcourt. Unless Vaughn can stay in front of Harris, the Spurs will have the same defensive difficulties they had last year - with Parker the only player on the Spurs with the speed to defend those guys, it forced the Spurs to scramble on D when they were both in the game at the same time. It was this scrambling of the Spurs defensive schemes that allowed Dirk to become really dangerous as a scorer but also as the final twist of the knife each time down the court for the Mavs: by the time Dirk had it later in the possession, the Spurs were so scrambled defensively he was able to do what he wanted way too often: score or set up a teammate. That was the difference between the Mavs in '06 and the Suns in '05 - the Spurs were able to keep their composure defensively, even with Amare going off. Against the Mavs, you had Dirk going off PLUS a lack of defensive composure on too many possessions.

I don't see that the Spurs have solved this problem yet; so in that regard, I think the Mavs will be the hardest team for the Spurs to beat in a playoff series. But fear them? No. Even with as many things going wrong defensively as they did last year, the Spurs almost pulled it out anyway.

[Solid D]

Next time, Ronaldo, I will know that when you say "athleticism", it could mean any number of good things which may include chemistry, warm fuzzies, and community outreach.

;)

[manufor3]

We don't really know the rosters until the trade deadline.

[greensborohill]

Until the refs start calling over the back, no one will ever out-rebound the Mavs

LOL, this coming from a Suns fan. . . a team that gets outrebounded by aprox. 4 rebounds a game!! Obviously you'd cry about rebounding because you have none!!

[Jimcs50]

Tony Parker is playing much, much better this year than Terry. Last year he led the NBA in points in the paint for much of the year... a point guard! How can you possibly say they're =?

Parker is averaging more points (19.6 vs. 16.3), MORE assists (6.1 vs. 4.8, despite the notion that Parker is not a passer), and more rebounds than Terry (3.2 vs. 2.7). That's right. Tony Parker is averaging more points, boards, and assists than Terry. But he plays more, right? Wrong. Parker is averaging 33 mpg, while Terry averages 34.8. Should I mention that Parker is shooting 53% while Terry is at 45.6%? Or that Parker is getting to the line far more frequently WHILE getting more assists? On a team that usually gets the point a low # of assists because we're notorious for making 3-4 passes per possession?

Sorry, but when I saw your post I immediately signed up for the boards. Making vast general statements like Terry = Parker discounts not only Parker's incredible improvement as a point guard overall, but the complete differences in the game they play. Parker can collapse a defense at will, and with a paint presence like Duncan that is irreplacable, not to mention the 3 point shooting the Spurs have this year.

Also, Dirk and Duncan do NOT cancel out. Tim Duncan is perhaps the best crunch-time defender in the NBA. Make no mistake, he WILL show up in the playoffs. Dirk is slightly superior on offense during the regular season, but when Duncan sets his mind to it, he is unguardable. Period (since apparently we're into typing out punctuation on these boards). I wouldn't ever trade Timmy for Dirk. The defense is just too valuable to give up. Watch down the stretch of the season, when games really make a difference. Duncan will be swatting balls all over the court to get the Spurs a #1 seed.

Howard is a great player. Yet the Mavs have two great players. Dirk and Howard. The Spurs have three. Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili. I'll take that against the Mavs starters anyday, especially if Bowen and Barry are knocking down shots.

How can it possibly be said that the Mavs are "clearly" the better team when we're not even halfway into the season and a sole game is the difference between the two? The Spurs are averaging an almost double-digit point difference, while the Mavs are around 6.5. That to me is an equally valid comparison as a record that is so similiar.

If the Spurs stay healthy and the 3 point shooting answers the call this post-season, I don't fear the Mavs. I'm eagerly awaiting the matchup, because I know it will be a great one.


Valid points, but right now, I feel that Dallas has our number. Pop gets out coached by AJ each time they match up with each other, and Josh Howard is playing even better than he did in last year's playoff series with us. I think SA needs more than what they have to beat them in a series. Now, that being said, if Manu can stay healthy, and get back to the level that he was when he played in the Finals against Detroit, then I will feel a lot better about our chances.

[tlongII]

Phoenix is better than Dallas or San Antonio. Anybody that doesn't recognize this is clueless.

[greensborohill]

Phoenix is better than Dallas or San Antonio. Anybody that doesn't recognize this is clueless.


Defense mean anything to you?

Obviously not. Phoenix is gonna do what they do every year. Get to the second round or the WCF and lose.

[Leetonidas]

I think Elson will be key versus Dallas, though he won't play in this game. He has the speed so we don't need to go small against them, he played Dirk good in the first game (I wonder why he didn't play much in the loss?), and he has the athleticism. Once his defensive rotations are in order, we shouldn't have much to worry about because then we can put Bruce on Howard, Tony on Harris, and Manu on Terry. Tim will abuse whoever plays him during the playoffs. The key was stopping Dirk, and by using Bruce to do that (which didn't work anyway) it left Josh Howard with Robert Horry on him. Granted, if Horry didn't have his head up his ass the whole series, and hit some threes, the Spurs probably win, but he's too slow.

If the Spurs have someone to stick on Dirk, they should be fine.

[fitzgerald]

Senorspur, I read your posts and you really seem to pay attention to details. I respect your posts. The Spurs health will be key. If Manu is healthy, then it will be close. If he isn't, then I don't see the Spurs winning with this current roster. I personally do not want Maggette added to the Spurs. Forget defense with him, this guy is a scoring machine and he does it in the paint. He gets to the free throw line alot. The window is closing for the Spurs so they really need to add whatever is necessary for this and next year. As a Mavs fan, I hope the Spurs keep the current roster.

[Leetonidas]

Personally, I think the Spurs are still in close talks with the Clips for Maggette, but they are trying to get his last year at a team option or are trying to work something out for a PG.

I heard they wanted James White too though. If that's the case, I would say no.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I hope he's coaching the spurs some time in the near future.that's like David Duke being heading the NAACP. i don't think it'll ever happen.

the only teams i think will give us a hard time are the mavs, suns(with a healthy amare), and maybe the nuggets if they gel when melo gets back. fear is too harsh a word, plus it's basketball. LIGHTEN UP. i'd love to see a spurs-mavs WCF with it all starting in san antonio.

[greensborohill]

Phoenix has been in the WCF the last 2 years..

Get a clue moron!!


Defense mean anything to you?

Obviously not. Phoenix is gonna do what they do every year. Get to the second round or the WCF and lose.

That's my full quote moron. . . . The reason I put second round is b/c if they don't get the top seed, they'll either play DAL or SAS and LOSE. So fuck off.

[greensborohill]

Suns don't even pretend to play defense. That's how shitty they are. They aren't even worth talking about.

[Big Shot Rob]

I wish I had more confidence.

If the FO does not get more help for the Spurs, I also tend to think that we would not be able to get by the Mavs in a 7 game series.

Josh Howard is on fire right now. He will only get better throughout the year, barring injury.

Tell me again why Pop passed on Howard in the draft? I understand Duncan is still pissed to this day that the Spurs did not draft Josh when we had the chance.

[Mr. Body]

Josh Howard is the reason the Mavs will in all likelihood beat the Spurs again this year.

[Budkin]

Not sure I'm right here, but I think Pop passed on Howard to free up money for Jason Kidd and/or Jermaine O'Neal.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Please remember..the Mavs are a perimeter dominated team... lay back and let josh howard shoot 22 foot jumpers all game long..

[DubMcDub]

And have him miss it right?

But what about the lose ball Manu will dive for?

Or the steal he will get?

Or the block?

Or the perfect pass?

Or shredding the defense?

Or splitting defenders?

Or knocking down a three?

Or getting to the foul line?

Manu Ginobili doesn't need to score to be clutch, he does everything well in crunch time.

Ya, Terry sure missed those 2 clutch jumpers from the baseline in OT of Game 4 last year. :rolleyes

Meanwhile, Manu was contributing beautifully from the bench, having received his 6th foul when he was absolutely punked by Terry at the end of regulation.

[Solid D]

I love Mavsmack.

[greensborohill]

Please remember..the Mavs are a perimeter dominated team... lay back and let josh howard shoot 22 foot jumpers all game long..

Aren't the Spurs more permieter oriented than the Mavs now?

Obviouslt Tim and Parker are great in the paint. But otherwise.. .

[DubMcDub]

I love Mavsmack.

I love Spursunearnedarrogance.

[greensborohill]

3-Game losing streak for the Spurs is coming...

They'll lose tonight @ Cleveland, tomorrow @ Minnesota and Friday against the Mavs...

Book it!


Shut up lame-o

[mavsfan1000]

3-Game losing streak for the Spurs is coming...

They'll lose tonight @ Cleveland, tomorrow @ Minnesota and Friday against the Mavs...

Book it!
Stick with your New York Dicks team full of black holes.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Aren't the Spurs more permieter oriented than the Mavs now?

Obviouslt Tim and Parker are great in the paint. But otherwise.. .


That's 2 more paint players than the Mavs have.. not a knock against the mavs because they are successful at what they do..

[Solid D]

I love Spursunearnedarrogance.

The Spurs and their fans shouldn't be arrogant. Their defense is the worst it's been in years.

[SenorSpur]

Josh Howard is the reason the Mavs will in all likelihood beat the Spurs again this year.

If Elson can contain Dirk, thereby allowing Bowen to guard Josh full-time, we have a chance. If Bowen has to switch off on Dirk, we're in trouble - again.

Of course, Elson will sit out Friday's game - so we'll still wont know.

[SenorSpur]

Senorspur, I read your posts and you really seem to pay attention to details. I respect your posts. The Spurs health will be key. If Manu is healthy, then it will be close. If he isn't, then I don't see the Spurs winning with this current roster. I personally do not want Maggette added to the Spurs. Forget defense with him, this guy is a scoring machine and he does it in the paint. He gets to the free throw line alot. The window is closing for the Spurs so they really need to add whatever is necessary for this and next year. As a Mavs fan, I hope the Spurs keep the current roster.

Fitzgerald, your feedback is very much appreciated.

Reason for fear? The Spurs have just enough weaknesses to again be exploited and exposed by AJ and his band of Merry Mavs.

Dallas is a team I fear for the many reasons we've discussed already. It's one thing to blow out Utah (thanks to a tirade by your coach) and it's quite another to hold your own against the elite teams of your conference. It's also inexcusable to have your defense "shredded like cheddar cheese" by the Bobtails, Bucks and Sixers.

A concern - Team Attitude and Level of Play:
Every game during that epic 7-game playoff series was close - except for one - Game 2 in S.A. Mavs blow out Spurs in a rout. Fast forward to Game 7. This game exemplified that entire series. Spurs trail by a huge margin and have to fight back the entire game from an insurmountable 20+ point lead to eventually lose the game in OT. Not good for an older team.

Look back at the most recent game in S.A.. Mavs opened up a 14-15pt lead of which the Spurs were never able to recover. Has anyone noticed that, even though the two teams are fairly evenly matched, if there is a blowout to be had, the Mavs have been the team to inflict said blowout? Going back to the start of last season, the Spurs have never seemed to be in a comforatable position against the Mavs and they've certainly not been able to blow them out.

Another concern: Lack of scoring opportunities outside Big 3:
When Manu and/or Tony go to the bench, this team morphs into a perimeter team. Jacking up shots from the outside. Very little cutting, backpicks, screens, and virtually no post play unless Duncan is on the floor. You can probably see where I'm going here. This is another case for bringing Maggette to this team.

Although I don't want anyone in the beloved Spurs community to take my comments and criticisms as "jumping off Spurs bandwagon" - THAT WONT HAPPEN. I'm simply nervous because for the first time since this Spurs/Mavs rivalry has heated up, I don't feel as though the Spurs have the upper hand.

[vinylstar]

from mavs land, the feeling is mutual. we all have reasonable fear of the spurs and more specifically duncan. the mavs have the personel to handle manu and parker, but duncan is feared. the WCSF last year was the most entertaining and well played basketball i've ever watched, and i expect a likely showdown this year to be the same. at this point, i'd give neither team the edge.

one more thing...how can you guys complaing about 3 pt consistency when you have the best 3pt shooting % in the league?

[Solid D]

from mavs land, the feeling is mutual. we all have reasonable fear of the spurs and more specifically duncan. the mavs have the personel to handle manu and parker, but duncan is feared. the WCSF last year was the most entertaining and well played basketball i've ever watched, and i expect a likely showdown this year to be the same. at this point, i'd give neither team the edge.

one more thing...how can you guys complaing about 3 pt consistency when you have the best 3pt shooting % in the league?

:tu :tu

[Billy Cobham]

I would fear the new, old ball if I were you.

[Budkin]

The Mavs are clearly the better team right now but that doesn't mean that the Spurs won't pick it up later. They really need to make a good trade though.

[DubMcDub]

The Spurs and their fans shouldn't be arrogant. Their defense is the worst it's been in years.

Hell, you're right, and I don't think the Mavs fans should be arrogant either.

The fact of the matter is that nobody's team is entitled to anything, but the vibe I get from a lot of posters here is that the Spurs are entitled to X or Y just because in previous years theyve won championships.

Course that's part of what I get for reading here, no doubt. I just can't help but chuckle when I see someone post something like "it doesn't matter how the Spurs are playing now, April+ is all that matters"....as if the Spurs are guaranteed to suddenly step it up every April.

[SenorSpur]

For anyone wondering why some of us here fear the Mavericks, simply look at the difference in how the two teams played their respective games on Tuesday night.

Spurs led an inferior Cleveland team throughout most of the game. Only to allow the Cavs eventually take the lead in the 4th quarter. They did so by allowing numerous penetrations in the lane, countless turnovers, giving up unncessary 3-pt plays. This is to say nothing for the incessant bitching and moaning to the officials by Tim, which mentally takes them out of the game more than anything an opponent can do.

Mavs on the other hand, toyed with an inferior Seattle team early, before imposing their will on the Sonics to blow open a 20 pt lead, en route to their 11 straight victory.

I don't care what anyone says. Right now, the Mavs are demonstrating the machine-like execution the Spurs have long been known for. They're not beating themselves and are playing the contenders. The Spurs are playing like whiny-ass chumps.

[dtk]

as much as I like to hear all y'all worried about the mavs, you guys are only two games behind...

[Amuseddaysleeper]

as much as I like to hear all y'all worried about the mavs, you guys are only two games behind...

and yesterday we were only one game behind


and there's a possiblity after friday we could be 3 games behind


this team needs to go on a tear

not win 3 lose 1, win 2, lose 2, wn 3, lose 1 etc..


they need to go on a huge run in the W and get their shit together

[bigfundamental21]

I can't believe what I am reading ... Let's wait until March or so before we start 'fearing' anybody. Dork and mavs are playing well right now with 2 double digit winning streaks. I saw that they were 22-3 since starting 0-4 but in the end they have a whopping 1 game lead..everyone needs to relax

:reading

Definitely not time to panic. The guys will get it together. Friday's game will be a big test. It's time to find out how much they want it. The fire is there, it's like the team is just going through the motions right now, but when it comes time to put it on the line, they will be the Spurs team of old!

GO SPURS GO!

[StylisticS]

and yesterday we were only one game behind


and there's a possiblity after friday we could be 3 games behind


this team needs to go on a tear

not win 3 lose 1, win 2, lose 2, wn 3, lose 1 etc..


they need to go on a huge run in the W and get their shit together

And that usually happens around the rodeo trip, right. You'll be right there with us come March 1 and it will be a battle until the end of April to see who wins the division. I think it is imperative that Dallas or San Antonio finishes 1 in the west with the new seedings. And as good as we have played for the past month and a half, you are what, 22-8? The Spurs will be fine.

[SenorSpur]

Is this team so complacent and unmotivated that they have to wait for the annual Rodeo Road Trip as their signal to "wake the hell up"? If so, then they should shut the season down and enter the lottery.

It's a long season, but it's the WAY the Spurs are playing is what is of concern. Every year during the Duncan era, this team has hung it's hat on its ability to stop people. That aint happening now.

[Jimcs50]

Anyone still think SA can beat Dallas in a series with the Spurs staying pat?

Bowen and Horry are liabilities on offense and if SA is going to play D like they did last night in the 4th Q, then they do not have the firepower to score with Dallas and Phoenix.

[VaSpursFan]

Anyone still think SA can beat Dallas in a series with the Spurs staying pat?

Bowen and Horry are liabilities on offense and if SA is going to play D like they did last night in the 4th Q, then they do not have the firepower to score with Dallas and Phoenix.

horry and fin played well last night and should have continued to play. horry was not liability on offense last night.

[Jimcs50]

horry and fin played well last night and should have continued to play. horry was not liability on offense last night.


did not watch game, was at Aggie game, but the 4th Q collapse was horrible and Horry and Bowen in general are liabilities on offense....yes?

[1Parker1]

:wtf I wouldn't say Bowen is a liability on offense. He's 6th in the NBA in 3 point shooting...that's basically what he's expected to do out there as far as offense goes and that's what helped the Spurs win in 2003 and 2005....

[VaSpursFan]

:wtf I wouldn't say Bowen is a liability on offense. He's 6th in the NBA in 3 point shooting...that's basically what he's expected to do out there as far as offense goes and that's what helped the Spurs win in 2003 and 2005....

3pt shooting is fools gold. bruce doesn't take that many shots. it's feast or famine with him. he'll either hit the 3...or not. he has no mid game and can't finish around the basket consistently. when defenses close out on bruce at the 3 point line, he's cooked.

[Jimcs50]

:wtf I wouldn't say Bowen is a liability on offense. He's 6th in the NBA in 3 point shooting...that's basically what he's expected to do out there as far as offense goes and that's what helped the Spurs win in 2003 and 2005....


What is is scoring average? 6 pts?

How many starting Sm forwards in the NBA score that little?

[DallasFan]

I'm hoping for a Spurs/Mavs WCF matchup. Pure entertainment...for some reason, the Suns don't scare me, although they are dangerous. Their style of play just wears themselves out, especially in the long run.

I think the Spurs and Mavs are too physical for just about anybody. :dizzy

[mFFL03]

calm down guys, we made the same run last year. we lost 4 games in december...peaked in jan. and feb. then cooled/crashed hard in march and the beginning of april.

hypothetical question....lose tonight (against minnesota)...thats 2 games behind...then friday...3 games down! Not saying it will happen...but something to think about. Don't worry though, we have at SA, then Lakers, and Utah. Probably the toughest teams we play against minus the Suns.

[DubMcDub]

calm down guys, we made the same run last year. we lost 4 games in december...peaked in jan. and feb. then cooled/crashed hard in march and the beginning of april.

hypothetical question....lose tonight (against minnesota)...thats 2 games behind...then friday...3 games down! Not saying it will happen...but something to think about. Don't worry though, we have at SA, then Lakers, and Utah. Probably the toughest teams we play against minus the Suns.

Actually if they lose tonight that's 2.5 games back, 3 if the Mavs win against the Pacers Thursday.

Then 4 if they lose Friday.

[Cherry]

No fear... grrr:makemyday

[adrienne]

Even and I am only cautiously optimistic about the Mavs right now...the seed of doubt planted from the 0-4 start has not gone away yet. I am liking what I'm seeing, and would love to believe it will last, but only time...and many more wins...will tell.:)

[Jimcs50]

Horry and Bowen have another nice offensive game.

2 pts?????

It is time to trade Bowen or bring him off the bench and get a scorer in the starting rotation from the 3 spot.

Today's NBA is not the same as in 00, 01 or 03....you need to score points to win. We can not score enogh points to beat Phoenix or Dallas in a series right now.

We have a good enough defense even w/o Bowen in the starting lineup. I seem to remember a pretty good scorer at the 3 on this team named Elliott, and we did fine with him and his decent, not stellar defense, yes?

[da_suns_fan__]

Wow...who knew Spurs fans could be so fickle.

[Jimcs50]

Wow...who knew Spurs fans could be so fickle.


There comes a time, when you have to evolve....the Spurs, not me.

:)

[Jimcs50]

Looks like I was right afterall, eh?

We need to get Maggette or Jefferson from Jersey in here to take Bowens' place or we are nothing but a one and done in playoffs. No way in hell does this Spurs team beat Phoenix or Dallas in a 7 game series.

[1Parker1]

:lol Jim, Please tell me you don't honestly think that the Spurs have even a remote chance of landing Richard Jefferson from the Nets....

[GrandeDavid]

The only team which really concerns me is the Spurs. I think their problems are internal and correctable. I think they'll be tough come playoff time.

[Jimcs50]

:lol Jim, Please tell me you don't honestly think that the Spurs have even a remote chance of landing Richard Jefferson from the Nets....

The Nets are trying to make a move. If we give them the right players and a draft pick, perhaps they can make it happen.

Hey, I have been wanting him for 2 yrs now, why stop dreaming?
:p: