A Bad Omen - Finley and the ever present offensive rebound.

[MannyIsGod]

Smallball. No one seemed to remark about it much, but there it was again. Smallball.

I hadn't even thought about it because I was so furious about Tim Duncan's refusal to move torwards the man with the ball and commit a foul, but just like in the playoffs last year the Spurs get a crucial stop only to give up an offensive rebound over Finley that ends up costing them a shot at winning the game.

I don't know how many times we're going to have to see this scene play out, but after reading that the Spurs refused to trade Barry for Magette and seeing Finley out there as a big at the end of a game, I'm positive that if this scene repeats in the playoffs we will not be in a very good situation.

[timvp]

How do you not foul when they get the ball back with 11 seconds to go?!?! And guess how they got the ball back .... SMALL BALL. Forces Finley to grab a rebound and he's the worst rebounder on the team. How the hell do you go to small ball when you need a stop and a board? Especially when the person who is killing you is Blount. Got damn.

And not fouling, that was the laziest thing I've seen. Duncan just looked at Garnett. It took Bowen like five seconds to start running after him. And Finley not only didn't get the rebound he didn't foul Hassell or chase after anyone.

:pctoss :pctoss

In traffic, is there a worse rebounding player in the league than Michael Finley?

[MannyIsGod]

My bad, I didn't see you post that. The small ball thing didn't dawn on me till I was reading the EN article a few minutes ago, but the fury at Duncan was immediate. I couldn't believe he just stood there. I actually jumped up here at home screaming for him to move and foul.

[SenorSpur]

I want to remind everyone of a particular game last season in Philly, in which Andre Iguodala (the other AI) soared over Finley, who failed to box out (nothing new), to put back a missed shot by Allen Iverson at the buzzer. Thereby giving the Sixers an upset home win versus the Spurs.

The Spurs have two players, Barry and Finley, who have virtually the same strengths (decent 3 pt shooters) and the same limitations and weaknesses (age, below average rebounders and poor defenders) who play virtually the same position.

Pop claims he's more concerned about what players do defensively in his system - then he needs to ship one of the guys along because they bring "0" defensive skills to the table.

How many times to we have to see this play out? Pop desparately needs to offset that position with a younger, more athletic player. Maggette would be a serious upgrade. If Pop is truly committed to playing small, Maggette gives the Spurs a better scoring and rebounding option at the swing spot - especially in 4th quarter crunch time. Besides Maggette is an above average FT shooter. Hell, he had 11 rebounds last night in a road loss to the Heat. While he wont be that much of an improvement defensively, but at least he's younger and quicker and should adapt.

With the way Bowen, Barry and Finley are struggling as of late, the Spurs are getting NOTHING from that position. It's killing them.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

I want to remind everyone of a particular game last season in Philly, in which Andre Iguodala (the other AI) soared over Finley, who failed to box out (nothing new), to put back a missed shot by Allen Iverson at the buzzer. Thereby giving the Sixers an upset home win versus the Spurs.

The Spurs have two players, Barry and Finley, who have virtually the same strengths (decent 3 pt shooters) and the same limitations and weaknesses (age, below average rebounders and poor defenders) who play virtually the same position.

Pop claims he's more concerned about what players do defensively in his system - then he needs to ship one of the guys along because they bring "0" defensive skills to the table.

How many times to we have to see this play out? Pop desparately needs to offset that position with a younger, more athletic player. Maggette would be a serious upgrade. If Pop is truly committed to playing small, Maggette gives the Spurs a better scoring and rebounding option at the swing spot - especially in 4th quarter crunch time. Besides Maggette is an above average FT shooter. Hell, he had 11 rebounds last night in a road loss to the Heat. While he wont be that much of an improvement defensively, but at least he's younger and quicker and should adapt.

With the way Bowen, Barry and Finley are struggling as of late, the Spurs are getting NOTHING from that position. It's killing them.





I agree with you 100%.

But who could the Spurs package that would be of interest to the Clippers? And who all are exclusive Spurs at this point? I think at this point I've lost all hope for Robert, Michael, Udrih. Barry is starting to convince more and more, after every game I see that he's headed the down the same alley. He had a great beginning, but it didn't last like I hoped it would, and thought it would not. And as for Bowen, he seems to be continuing to slowly regress as an athlete, though his respect for the game, for his teamates, and for his opponents (despite what peopple may think), and his overall attitude and commitment make him not only an important part of the team, but, along with Duncan, one of the exclusive leaders. With that said, Barry, Udrih, Finley, Red Rocket, Horry, and anyone else I missed, besides the Big Four, can all start putting their houses up for sell, because some them have got to go.

[Dre_7]

In traffic, is there a worse rebounding player in the league than Michael Finley?

I dont think you can blame Fin. I didnt see the game, but if he is at PF then it isnt his fault at all. He is a career SG and sometimes SF. Not his fault if he cant get boards if he is playin as a big. Thats the coaches fault.

Small ball absolutely SUCKS ASS!!!

[timvp]

I dont think you can blame Fin. I didnt see the game, but if he is at PF then it isnt his fault at all. He is a career SG and sometimes SF. Not his fault if he cant get boards if he is playin as a big. Thats the coaches fault.

Small ball absolutely SUCKS ASS!!!

Well, you'd think he could keep Trenton freakin' Hassell off the boards.

[T Park]

Wait a second.


So Oberto should've been in there instead?


Seriously? :lol

[T Park]

after reading that the Spurs refused to trade Barry for Magette

Im with Notorious HOP.

It never said the trade was proposed or anything.


Its all speculation.


So you guys are reading WAYYYYY too much into that fluff piece.

[SenorSpur]

I dont think you can blame Fin. I didnt see the game, but if he is at PF then it isnt his fault at all. He is a career SG and sometimes SF. Not his fault if he cant get boards if he is playin as a big. Thats the coaches fault.

Small ball absolutely SUCKS ASS!!!



.....another reason to bring Maggette on board.

[SenorSpur]

Well, you'd think he could keep Trenton freakin' Hassell off the boards.

........still another vote for Maggette

[wildbill2u]

My bad, I didn't see you post that. The small ball thing didn't dawn on me till I was reading the EN article a few minutes ago, but the fury at Duncan was immediate. I couldn't believe he just stood there. I actually jumped up here at home screaming for him to move and foul.
One of the inherent problems with our 'smallball' is that Tim moves to center and absolutely refuses to risk himself by trying to stop penetration in the lane. On most other teams smallball lineups, the center is not their superstar

Perhaps he's been instructed to do nothing by Pop--but I doubt it.

This is why we can't play smallball IMO.

[Supergirl]

People are complaining about Barry and Finley's D and then want the Spurs to sign a player who has been KNOWN for not wanting to play D - come on. That doesn't make any sense.

Finley has actually been a pretty decent defender, if you look at his tenure overall. That doesn't excuse his lapses, but Manu, Parker, and everyone not named Bowen and Duncan have had serious lapses in their defense.

I'm not saying we don't need a change, and that we don't go for a long 3 if we can get one, but Maggette was not the answer. I wish Tayshaun Prince had been available. THAT'S the kind of player we need added into our mix.

[mabber]

One of the inherent problems with our 'smallball' is that Tim moves to center and absolutely refuses to risk himself by trying to stop penetration in the lane. On most other teams smallball lineups, the center is not their superstar

Perhaps he's been instructed to do nothing by Pop--but I doubt it.

This is why we can't play smallball IMO.

Duncan is the problem on defense against the Mavs even when they're not playing small ball. He has to try to guard Dirk or Josh and he can't do either. The Mavs don't play small ball anymore as either Damp or Diop or always in the game. When the Suns use Amare at center then Duncan has to try to contain him and that's no easy task without getting in foul trouble. I just don't think the Spurs really matchup that well with either Dallas or Phoenix. On the flip side, neither the Mavs nor the Suns really have anyone that can contain Duncan. Diop & Damp are better than anyone that Phoenix can throw at him unless they think Kurt Thomas can control him (which I don't).

[SenorSpur]

People are complaining about Barry and Finley's D and then want the Spurs to sign a player who has been KNOWN for not wanting to play D - come on. That doesn't make any sense.

Finley has actually been a pretty decent defender, if you look at his tenure overall. That doesn't excuse his lapses, but Manu, Parker, and everyone not named Bowen and Duncan have had serious lapses in their defense.

I'm not saying we don't need a change, and that we don't go for a long 3 if we can get one, but Maggette was not the answer. I wish Tayshaun Prince had been available. THAT'S the kind of player we need added into our mix.

Maggette is not going to be any worse of a defender than either Finley or Barry. He probably has a better defensive upside than either of these guys simply because he's younger. He can learn to play better defense. He certainly has the quick enough feet. He needs fundamental coaching to improve. He'll get that here.

The big benefit is utilizing his skill set on the offensive side - especially when the Spurs go small. While he cannot shoot the three nearly as effectively as Barry, he's a slashing scorer with the ability to break down any defense. Besides, we have enough 3-pt shooters. As a bonus, he's a terrific rebounder for his size (11 versus the Heat last night).

Folks, the Clips are desparate to trade this guy. Therefore, it may be possible to get him for a "song". Bottom line is this team needs a spark and I don't see that coming from anyone on the team or any other potential trade possibility.

[Texas_Ranger]

Pop claims he's more concerned about what players do defensively in his system - then he needs to ship one of the guys along because they bring "0" defensive skills to the table.

How many times to we have to see this play out? Pop desparately needs to offset that position with a younger, more athletic player. Maggette would be a serious upgrade. If Pop is truly committed to playing small, Maggette gives the Spurs a better scoring and rebounding option at the swing spot - especially in 4th quarter crunch time. Besides Maggette is an above average FT shooter. Hell, he had 11 rebounds last night in a road loss to the Heat. While he wont be that much of an improvement defensively, but at least he's younger and quicker and should adapt.

With the way Bowen, Barry and Finley are struggling as of late, the Spurs are getting NOTHING from that position. It's killing them.

I agree.

Pop thinks he's got some good defensife players. That's true but Finley and Barry are not so good in defense. Bowen's still a good defender but he is a man in age. How much longer are we going to play on old guys? That is the question I'm asking myself everyday.
Barry 35 years, Bowen 35, Williams 34, Horry 36, Finley 33, Vaughn 31, Oberto (last year a rookie) 31, Ginobili 29, Elson 29, Duncan 29, Bonner 26, White (not playing) 24, Butler (not playing) 21, Parker 24, Udrih 24.
And then you reject to trade Barry+Beno for Maggette. :pctoss

That is not the only problem in our team. One player is a good player, but not for NBA. Who? I'll tell you. That is Oberto. The man cant dunk, cant score. OK, he scored 20 or something like that on one game. But that game is long gone. Right now he is playing like shit.
Perhapse Scola would be better for the team, but I don't think so. He is the same type of player like Oberto, just a little more aggresive.

I think that the team needs some young players. Some 19 - 21 years old. I don't care if they are bad or good, just get some young boys.! You don't make the team better with the player's experience- that is what are the Spurs doing, but you make it with talent and pasion to the game. And if you are a talent youngstar and you want to show your skills you can be one of the best.

So lets play with the heart of the champion and not like some pussys.

[Solid D]

I want to remind everyone of a particular game last season in Philly, in which Andre Iguodala (the other AI) soared over Finley, who failed to box out (nothing new), to put back a missed shot by Allen Iverson at the buzzer. Thereby giving the Sixers an upset home win versus the Spurs.


That's what I thought of, too, but saw your post. The Spurs had that game sewed up. Then Korver hit a three, and Finley made only 1 of 2 FTs when he was fouled. Then he totally forgot to box out Iggy after Webber missed. There have been many other times this season where Finley failed to box out.

Maggette doesn't play D real well, but he sure can rebound. He's one of the best "2"s in the league when it comes to going after the ball. He's also one of the strongest.

[mabber]

It seems a lot of you thought you were getting the Finley of old. He's on the downside of his career. He wasn't a good rebounder or defender when he was at his peak with the Mavs. He was a good jump shooter and good locker room guy. The Mavs wouldn't have let him go (and still be paying him) if he had much game left.

The problem appears to be that Pop seems to think Finley still has a lot to offer and is playing him too much.

[SPURS vs NBA media]

My bad, I didn't see you post that. The small ball thing didn't dawn on me till I was reading the EN article a few minutes ago, but the fury at Duncan was immediate. I couldn't believe he just stood there. I actually jumped up here at home screaming for him to move and foul.

if Duncan go's for the foul their a easy dunk under the basket

[Mr. Body]

The problem appears to be that Pop seems to think Finley still has a lot to offer and is playing him too much.

The Spurs likely can't go deep in the playoffs without him, so is vainly trying to bring him back online.

Pop may be testing to see how much he can count on him, in case they cose to deal Barry mid-season.

What's sad is that we have Oberto, Finley, and Horry all on the books and taking up roster spots next year.

[objective]

Barry 35 years, Bowen 35, Williams 34, Horry 36, Finley 33, Vaughn 31, Oberto (last year a rookie) 31, Ginobili 29, Elson 29, Duncan 29, Bonner 26, White (not playing) 24, Butler (not playing) 21, Parker 24, Udrih 24.

More precisely, for the playoffs . . . Duncan is 30, he turns 31 in late April. Elson is 30, he turns 31 in February. Vaughn turns 32 in February also. And Oberto turns 32 in March. And Finley will be 34 in March.



Perhapse Scola would be better for the team, but I don't think so. He is the same type of player like Oberto, just a little more aggresive.

Scola can actually dunk. And I think he's better at blocking shots as well, though that's not very impressive, being a better shot-blocker than Oberto.

[SenorSpur]

It seems a lot of you thought you were getting the Finley of old. He's on the downside of his career. He wasn't a good rebounder or defender when he was at his peak with the Mavs. He was a good jump shooter and good locker room guy. The Mavs wouldn't have let him go (and still be paying him) if he had much game left.

The problem appears to be that Pop seems to think Finley still has a lot to offer and is playing him too much.

Which is one of the reasons why I was against the Spurs bringing him to here in the first place. I live in Dallas and have watched Finley's ability decline the last 5 years. I loudly proclaimed everyone to beware. Remember, there was another reason the Mavs let him go - it wasn't all just about salary.

[mabber]

Which is one of the reasons why I was against the Spurs bringing him to here in the first place. I live in Dallas and have watched Finley's ability decline the last 5 years. I loudly proclaimed everyone to beware. Remember, there was another reason the Mavs let him go - it wasn't all just about salary.

I think he was worth what you got him for but to expect him to play at his "peak year" levels was a mistake. He can still help the Spurs in spots but I don't think he should be played as many minutes as he's being played now.

[SenorSpur]

I think he was worth what you got him for but to expect him to play at his "peak year" levels was a mistake. He can still help the Spurs in spots but I don't think he should be played as many minutes as he's being played now.

Exactly. I don't see him as a 33 min per game player any more.

[Supergirl]

Maggette is not going to be any worse of a defender than either Finley or Barry. He probably has a better defensive upside than either of these guys simply because he's younger. He can learn to play better defense. He certainly has the quick enough feet. He needs fundamental coaching to improve. He'll get that here.

The big benefit is utilizing his skill set on the offensive side - especially when the Spurs go small. While he cannot shoot the three nearly as effectively as Barry, he's a slashing scorer with the ability to break down any defense. Besides, we have enough 3-pt shooters. As a bonus, he's a terrific rebounder for his size (11 versus the Heat last night).

Folks, the Clips are desparate to trade this guy. Therefore, it may be possible to get him for a "song". Bottom line is this team needs a spark and I don't see that coming from anyone on the team or any other potential trade possibility.

Maggette is worse just by definition because he reportedly DOESN'T WANT to play defense. At least Fin and Barry are willing to work hard and make an effort.

[MannyIsGod]

Maggette is worse just by definition because he reportedly DOESN'T WANT to play defense. At least Fin and Barry are willing to work hard and make an effort.Prior to their coming to San Antonio, neither was known as a hard defensive worker and honestly I'm not sure you'd give either the label now.

[ShoogarBear]

Both Barry and Finley now work reasonably hard at trying to play defense. Occasionally last year Finley would have a decent night at it. But the combination of basic deficiencies and advancing age are catching up with both.

[mabber]

Both Barry and Finley now work reasonably hard at trying to play defense. Occasionally last year Finley would have a decent night at it. But the combination of basic deficiencies and advancing age are catching up with both.

The funny & sad thing about Finley is that he used to be considered one of the Mavs best defenders back in the early 2000's under Nelson :lol :(

That's how bad the Mavs were on defense back then.

[1Parker1]

I want to remind everyone of a particular game last season in Philly, in which Andre Iguodala (the other AI) soared over Finley, who failed to box out (nothing new), to put back a missed shot by Allen Iverson at the buzzer. Thereby giving the Sixers an upset home win versus the Spurs.


I was at that Game!!! Spurs were up the entire game and totally collapsed in the final 2 minutes, leading to an OT loss on the road against Philly, a sub.500 non playoff team...And I think it was Chris Webber, not Igodala who outrebounded Finley on that last play...

[objective]

Wasn't that Philly game the one where Nazr had a 20/20 game?