What? No love for the Unit to Arizona?

[JMarkJohns]

Back where he belongs. Before any shouts that he's done, take a look at Pedro's and Clemens' AL to NL season stats... Yeah, Johnson's ERA was high at 5.0, but did you know both Pedro and Rodger had around 4.0? That Clemens' highest was actually around 4.6?

Going from the AL to the NL is worth about a run per game off the ERA. Maybe even 1.5 off.

He's going to a team where he won't have to be but a good #2 or #3 as Webb is the #1 on the team and Livan Hernandez had a sub 3.5 ERA his final 10 starts.

Best part, Diamondbacks don't trade a single one of the plethora of top prospects (Diamondbacks have the #1 ranked farm system according to BaseballAmerica.com). Not Nippert (top-15 overall SP prospect), not Owings (top-25 overall pitching prospect), not Carlos Gonzales (compared to Carlos Beltran by BaseballAmerica), not Miguel Montero (said to be a better defensive Ramon Hernandez), not Chris Young (said to be a Torii Hunter, less defense, more pop), not Upton (some say the best overall prospect since Alex Rodriguez) and not any of their already proven studs like Tracy, Jackson, Drew, Quentin or Snyder. Not even potential up-and-comers like Alberto Callaspo whom was named to BaseballAmerica's All-Minor League 2nd-team for batting .337 with an OPS of .892, with 68 RBIs and 43 extra-base hits as a second baseman nor outfielder Scott Hairston whom was named the AAA offensive player of the year with a .323 average, a .998 OPS, 81 RBIs, 26 HRs and 49 extra-base hits.

They merely gave up big-league reliever, Luis Vizcaino, one AAA pitcher, one AA pitcher and one AA shortstop, all prospects being the b-level variety.

Must say, I'm very please. Hell, I read the Yankees may even be chipping in a few million to boot!

Supposedly an extension of one year, 10 million only needs to be signed and sent for League approval before it's official.

All of a sudden, Arizona's pitching staff looks pretty solid!

{pitcher...last seasons win/loss... ERA (over period)}
1. Webb......... 16 wins/8 losses... 3.10 (season)
2. Hernandez.... 4 wins/5 losses... 3.46 (last 12 games)
3. Johnson(AL).. 7 wins/4 losses... 4.85 (post-All-Star)
4. Gonzales..... 3 wins/4 losses... >3.50 (8-of-11 games)
5. D. Davis.... 11 wins/11 losses... 4.91 (season)

Lot of stuff to say a lot of nothing, still, I'm pretty happy!

[The Pied Piper]

Back where he belongs. Before any shouts that he's done, take a look at Pedro's and Clemens' AL to NL season stats... Yeah, Johnson's ERA was high at 5.0, but did you know both Pedro and Rodger had around 4.0? That Clemens' highest was actually around 4.6?

Going from the AL to the NL is worth about a run per game off the ERA. Maybe even 1.5 off.

He's going to a team where he won't have to be but a good #2 or #3 as Webb is the #1 on the team and Livan Hernandez had a sub 3.5 ERA his final 10 starts.

Best part, Diamondbacks don't trade a single one of the plethora of top prospects (Diamondbacks have the #1 ranked farm system according to BaseballAmerica.com). Not Nippert (top-15 overall SP prospect), not Owings (top-25 overall pitching prospect), not Carlos Gonzales (compared to Carlos Beltran by BaseballAmerica), not Miguel Montero (said to be a better defensive Ramon Hernandez), not Chris Young (said to be a Torii Hunter, less defense, more pop), not Upton (some say the best overall prospect since Alex Rodriguez) and not any of their already proven studs like Tracy, Jackson, Drew, Quentin or Snyder. Not even potential up-and-comers like Alberto Callaspo whom was named to BaseballAmerica's All-Minor League 2nd-team for batting .337 with an OPS of .892, with 68 RBIs and 43 extra-base hits as a second baseman nor outfielder Scott Hairston whom was named the AAA offensive player of the year with a .323 average, a .998 OPS, 81 RBIs, 26 HRs and 49 extra-base hits.

They merely gave up big-league reliever, Luis Vizcaino, one AAA pitcher, one AA pitcher and one AA shortstop, all prospects being the b-level variety.

Must say, I'm very please. Hell, I read the Yankees may even be chipping in a few million to boot!

Supposedly an extension of one year, 10 million only needs to be signed and sent for League approval before it's official.

All of a sudden, Arizona's pitching staff looks pretty solid!

{pitcher...last seasons win/loss... ERA (over period)}
1. Webb......... 16 wins/8 losses... 3.10 (season)
2. Hernandez.... 4 wins/5 losses... 3.46 (last 12 games)
3. Johnson(AL).. 7 wins/4 losses... 4.85 (post-All-Star)
4. Gonzales..... 3 wins/4 losses... >3.50 (8-of-11 games)
5. D. Davis.... 11 wins/11 losses... 4.91 (season)

Lot of stuff to say a lot of nothing, still, I'm pretty happy!

Shut your morinic mouth fag.

The SECOND he went to NY he LOST any credibility he had as a person.

he is a son of a bitch and I hope his career flatlines.

Fuck him and fuck anyone that even considers signing with the evil fucking empire.

bitches.

[JMarkJohns]

A little over the top, don't ya think?

As for "Evil Empire", Boston is certainly approaching similer status. What's you're payroll up to now? 150 million? 170 million? No... Boston doesn't buy players. Well, players besides Manny, Schilling, Beckett, Drew, Matzsazuka or however you spell his name... Let's not pretend you don't outspend 28 other teams, shall we?

I don't care for New York and I cheered my ass of when the Sox beat the Yanks, but pull the log out of your own eye before trying to pull the splinter out of mine.

Thanks... BTW, Arizona beat the Yankees in 2001, remember? Maybe you're just bitter from the 2002 Diamondbacks strolling into Boston and sweeping a three-game interleague series from the Sox... Or perhaps you just a foul mouthed message board jackass. Perhaps both.

[The Pied Piper]

A little over the top, don't ya think?

As for "Evil Empire", Boston is certainly approaching similer status. What's you're payroll up to now? 150 million? 170 million? No... Boston doesn't buy players. Well, players besides Manny, Schilling, Beckett, Drew, Matzsazuka or however you spell his name... Let's not pretend you don't outspend 28 other teams, shall we?

I don't care for New York and I cheered my ass of when the Sox beat the Yanks, but pull the log out of your own eye before trying to pull the splinter out of mine.

Thanks... BTW, Arizona beat the Yankees in 2001, remember? Maybe you're just bitter from the 2002 Diamondbacks strolling into Boston and sweeping a three-game interleague series from the Sox... Or perhaps you just a foul mouthed message board jackass. Perhaps both.

Or perhaps you are gay and I am a Marlins fan who knows that regardless of how much $ the Yanks spend, they will always get knocked off by the wild card Marlins.

Deal with it, tool.

[JMarkJohns]

Oh... so you're pissed that your ownership won't keep your title teams together. That's it. So, rather than be objective, you've allowed your frustration with ownership to spill out into a full on hatred of those whom you percieve to be part of the problem.

It's hardly the players faults that your team's owner is a cheap bastard unwilling to keep proven Championship talent.

Get over yourself. Your not that important a post that your ignorance can't just be brushed over. In fact, as of now, that's exactly what's going to happen within this thread by me...

[The Pied Piper]

Oh... so you're pissed that your ownership won't keep your title teams together. That's it. So, rather than be objective, you've allowed your frustration with ownership to spill out into a full on hatred of those whom you percieve to be part of the problem.

It's hardly the players faults that your team's owner is a cheap bastard unwilling to keep proven Championship talent.

Get over yourself. Your not that important a post that your ignorance can't just be brushed over. In fact, as of now, that's exactly what's going to happen within this thread by me...

Doesnt change the fact that I will continue to toss out slurs.

I love you.

[ducks]

go az
not sold that the unit has any thing left though

[The Pied Piper]

go az
not sold that the unit has any thing left though
exactly

In 2006 he had his highest ERA of all time.

He is done.

[Burn531]

The D-Backs new color's are nice: http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-3360903dt.jpg
http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-3346976dt.jpg

Maybe The Unit just wanted to wear new colors.

[Horry For 3!]

Randy Johnson is pretty much done. I wouldn't have traded for him.

[T Park]

Nothing like paying 16 million for a 5th in the rotation guy.

[JMarkJohns]

AL to NL... we'll have to see, but everyone said the Astros and Mets were crazy for paying Clemens and Martinez after some of their worst years...

Never underestimate the AL-to-NL catchers and no longer having to face the DH. AL's catchers can all hit, seemingly, while many of the NL catchers are used mainly for defense.

Also, Petco, SBC, Dodger Stadium and, now, even Coors are some of the most pitcher friendly in baseball and are such in arguably the weakest division in the bigs.

Also, T Park, he'll put butts in the seats. He's a draw. Maybe not a sell-out, but it will go a long ways shore up the end of the Diamondbacks rotation which will keep them in the playoff chase longer and his pursuit of records and milestones will keep fans interested.

[K-State Spur]

Going from the AL to the NL is worth about a run per game off the ERA. Maybe even 1.5 off.

Actually, it's about half a run. Maybe slightly more since he is getting away from the AL East line-ups. However, that could be easily offset by another year into his 40s. Plus, his K-Rate is declining. If it drops any more down to around 6 K/9, his ERA will remain around 5+.

[tsb2000]

Randy Johnson is pretty much done. I wouldn't have traded for him.

I mentioned this trade in the Yankees' luxury tax thread, and got no input. :rolleyes

A part of that deal was that Unit had to pass a physical, so I figure he's ready to go.

Also, I got one of those new red hats for Christmas. I dig the new red, even though a lot of people here in AZ are ticked about the change.

and you're right, JMJ, the Yanks are paying $2M of Johnson's salary this year. :)

[Extra Stout]

The D-Backs new color's are nice: http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-3360903dt.jpg
http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-3346976dt.jpg

Maybe The Unit just wanted to wear new colors.
Why did the D-backs decide to become the Houston Astros?

[T Park]

Why did the D Backs cartoonize their logo on their hats?

I loved those black hats with the snake coiled up.

Oh bother.

[tsb2000]

That's the same logo as last year in the cap, just different colors. The snake makes a "D."

Last year's hat:

http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_111000/FF_111289_s.jpg

[JMarkJohns]

Actually, it's about half a run. Maybe slightly more since he is getting away from the AL East line-ups. However, that could be easily offset by another year into his 40s. Plus, his K-Rate is declining. If it drops any more down to around 6 K/9, his ERA will remain around 5+.

Going from AL lineups to NL lineups is worth about a half a run, AL East hitter's parks to the NL West pitcher's parks close to another half a run and he going from the cold where he stays stiff to warm weather change could be worth another half a run or so. In total, I wouldn't be surprised if he has an ERA from the 3.4-to-4.0 range.

Just look at Clemens', another 40-year old power pitcher, stats to see the potential for improvement by simply being traded.

EDIT: on top of everything, while it won't drastically affect his ERA, he'll now be pitching in front of one of the best defenses in the bigs. Great up the middle, more than solid on the corners and he'll have a top-notch defensive catcher in Snyder likely as his sign caller...

That's a big change from the blunder-filled Yankee defense with E-Rod on the hot corner and Giambi at first base.

[tsb2000]

E-Rod? :lmao

[TheAdmiral#50]

exactly

In 2006 he had his highest ERA of all time.

He is done.

Eh, it's not his fault he got old lol. I think the Diamondbacks want to be the ones getting the attention when he gets his 300th win. He needs 20 wins to reach 300 - he should be able to win 20 over two years - he won 17 each of the last two seasons.

[K-State Spur]

AL East hitter's parks to the NL West pitcher's parks close to another half a run and he going from the cold where he stays stiff to warm weather change could be worth another half a run or so.

Incorrect. While the AL East ballparks are known for their short porches, they actually tend to favor the pitcher (mainly because singles, doubles, and triples are more rare with the shorter fences). For example, Camden Yards is considered a great homerun hitters park, but it has always favored the pitcher overall (0.985 park factor).

The worst part for Randy Johnson is that Yankee Stadium was actually the 4th best park to PITCH in last season (0.900) park factor.

As for the NL West? Chase Field in Arizona is actually the 4th best HITTERS park in the game (1.141 park factor). Coors and Dodger Stadium also favor the hitters. San Francisco is a slight advantage to the pitcher. San Diego is the best park in the league to pitch in.

As for the weather, colder weather typically favors pitching over hitting.

[JMarkJohns]

Incorrect. While the AL East ballparks are known for their short porches, they actually tend to favor the pitcher (mainly because singles, doubles, and triples are more rare with the shorter fences). For example, Camden Yards is considered a great homerun hitters park, but it has always favored the pitcher overall (0.985 park factor).

The worst part for Randy Johnson is that Yankee Stadium was actually the 4th best park to PITCH in last season (0.900) park factor.

As for the NL West? Chase Field in Arizona is actually the 4th best HITTERS park in the game (1.141 park factor). Coors and Dodger Stadium also favor the hitters. San Francisco is a slight advantage to the pitcher. San Diego is the best park in the league to pitch in.

As for the weather, colder weather typically favors pitching over hitting.

That's all interesting info, but, Randy gives up homeruns. Therefore he pitching in homerun parks of the short-porch, AL East variety isn't as good for him as the deep outfield ballparks of the NL West. As for Arizona, I'm sure he'll do quite well there. As mentioned before, his groundball defense should drastically improve and therefore he can throw the pitches that induce outs, rather than trying to nibble and get strikeouts, end up with higher walks and more runners on base for the few "hits" he does allow in a game, but mainly for the homerun per start he seems to allow.

As for the weather, I'm not sold that cold weather is better for Johnson than is cold weather. He has back issues, and has a hard time warming it up. If he's stiff throughout the game, then his snap or power isn't there, which makes for bad or lesser starts. If it's warm weather, then it won't take as long to warm up as his back won't be as stiff, which means fewer pitches thrown to get warmed up and a better product while on the mound.

I know you can't base one player to another player, but there's not much to come out and matter of factly say Johnson is flat out done. There's more players pitching well and well into their 40's than ever before. Those I've mentioned above made a very unexpected transition from the AL (same parks, same climate, similer issues) to the NL and thrived. One was younger but had a longer history of injury and the other was older.

We'll have to wait and find out, but I'd say the over/under on ERA improvement should be roughly one full run.

I expect a 3.5/3.8 range.

[K-State Spur]

That's all interesting info, but, Randy gives up homeruns.

Actually...in terms of allowing HR, that's actually an area where Johnson was okay last year. His HR/9 rate last year was 1.14, which is well below the league average.


His groundball defense should drastically improve and therefore he can throw the pitches that induce outs, rather than trying to nibble and get strikeouts, end up with higher walks and more runners on base for the few "hits" he does allow in a game, but mainly for the homerun per start he seems to allow.

That's not the type of pitcher Randy has ever been. For a guy who has always relied on the strikeout, you're asking a lot of this leopard to change his stripes at this stage in the game.


I'm not sold that cold weather is better for Johnson than is cold weather. He has back issues, and has a hard time warming it up. If he's stiff throughout the game, then his snap or power isn't there, which makes for bad or lesser starts. If it's warm weather, then it won't take as long to warm up as his back won't be as stiff, which means fewer pitches thrown to get warmed up and a better product while on the mound.


Fair point.


There's not much to come out and matter of factly say Johnson is flat out done.

You are correct. Actually Randy Johnson's peripheral stats (WHIP, K/9, BB/9, etc) actually show that he was extremely unlucky last year. He should have finished with a better ERA than he actually finished up with.

However, they also show a strong decline in production for the third time in 4 years.

And it's more likely to continue than it isn't.

[Duff McCartney]

I can't say I was really happy when the Yankees brought in Johnson. Maybe if they would have got him 3 years earlier then I would have been more excited. But he's old. He's still got stuff left..but I'm glad the Yankees are going for a youth movement. I know they've signed some old guys but for the most part..they haven't gone crazy about their spending.