Spurs have something the Bulls could use

[regio]

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp?id=269631
Spurs’ 2002 second-round pick Scola still out of NBA
By Mike McGraw
Daily Herald Sports Writer
Posted Monday, January 15, 2007


The San Antonio Spurs, who visit the United Center today, have something the Bulls could use.

Something besides most of their players, that is.

The Spurs have held the rights to Argentinian power forward Luis Scola since making him a second-round draft pick in 2002. Scola, 26, is arguably the best big man playing in Europe. In 11 Euroleague games for Spain’s Tau Ceramica, Scola is averaging 16.7 points, 5.4 rebounds and is shooting 61 percent from the field.

Bulls forward Andres Nocioni calls Scola one of his closest friends. In addition to playing together on the successful Argentinian national squad, they were Tau Ceramica teammates for four seasons.

But Scola can’t join the NBA until the Spurs either sign him or trade him, and San Antonio has done neither. Even when the Spurs went looking for big men last summer, they settled on free agents Francisco Elson (from Denver) and Jackie Butler (New York).

San Antonio also signed another Argentine big man, Fabricio Oberto, who is playing well in his second NBA season.

Asked to compare Scola and Oberto, Nocioni said Scola is much better. But he’s a different kind of player. Scola is more offensive-minded; Oberto is a much better defender.

“For me, Scola has more talent offensively. He’s not a bad defender, but he’s not as good as Oberto,” Nocioni said. “The height is similar, but I think Scola is more (power forward) and Oberto is more (center). But Scola is an unbelievable talent. Offensively, he’s may be one of the best in Europe right now.”
Scola is listed at 2.07 meters tall on the Tau roster, which is about 6-feet-9¨. There may be some question as to whether he’s tall enough to succeed in the NBA.

The Bulls might like to find out. Adding competent big men is one of the their top priorities. Nocioni understands Scola’s frustration about being kept out of the NBA.

“They (the Spurs) don’t want him. They don’t want to trade him,” Nocioni said. “Just bad luck for him, because he could play here in Chicago and help us a lot. He’s a really, really good player.”

Chapu ready for new role: Andres Nocioni is expecting to come off the bench against San Antonio as coach Scott Skiles adjusts the starting lineup to include Ben Gordon. Nocioni’s new job is to bring scoring to the second group.

“I’m ready and prepared and thinking about my new role right now,” Nocioni said Sunday at the Berto Center. “I think the team needed a little bit of change because we lost too many games. I’m fine. I’m ready to come off the bench and help my team.”

P.J. Brown appears to be the most likely candidate to start in Nocioni’s place, but Tyrus Thomas and Viktor Khryapa are also possibilities. Brown had 9 rebounds and 5 blocks but hit just 1 of 8 shots in Saturday’s win over Memphis.

Suspension revisited: Nocioni voiced no complaint about being suspended by the league for the Memphis game. Nocioni was punished for hitting New Jersey center Mikki Moore with an elbow on Thursday.

“Sometimes worse things happen on the court and nothing happens.” Nocioni said. “But I have my reputation. You know how it is. But that’s it. I’m fine. I don’t have any problems. I want to play.”

Bull horns: The Bulls’ locker room was animated following Saturday’s win over Memphis as the team’s three Louisiana natives (P.J. Brown, Chris Duhon and Tyrus Thomas) were riveted by the end of the Saints-Eagles playoff game. … Ben Wallace shot around following Sunday’s brief practice and seems likely to play today against the Spurs after sitting out Saturday’s contest with a sore back. … Malik Allen returned to practice Sunday after missing three games with a left calf strain.

Today’s tipoff

Bulls vs. San Antonio Spurs at the United Center

When: 1 p.m.

TV: Channel 9

Radio: WCKG 105.9-FM

Update: The Spurs (27-11) aren’t on a ridiculous winning streak like Dallas or Phoenix, but they are cruising along with the league’s third-best record. As usual, PF Tim Duncan (19.9 ppg), PG Tony Parker (19.5) and SG Manu Ginobili (16.3) do most of the damage. San Antonio also leads the league in 3-point shooting percentage (.403). They busted up the Bulls in San Antonio 100-83 on Nov. 17.

Fast facts: The Spurs are tied with Dallas for the NBA’s best road record at 13-5 and have won five straight at the United Center. San Antonio ranks second in points allowed with 90.3. Sharpshooter Matt Bonner, who hurt the Bulls in the first meeting, suffered a knee injury Saturday and is expected to miss several weeks.

[ploto]

“They (the Spurs) don’t want him. They don’t want to trade him,” Nocioni said.

[exstatic]

Actually, Tau doesn't want to let him go. If the buyout weren't in the MILLIONS, I'm sure he'd be playing in the NBA somewhere by now. If Chicago wants him, well, they're overloaded with youth at the swing spots (Deng, Nocioni, Krhyapa, Sefolosha). Make an offer, bitches.

[regio]

Actually, Tau doesn't want to let him go. If the buyout weren't in the MILLIONS, I'm sure he'd be playing in the NBA somewhere by now. If Chicago wants him, well, they're overloaded with youth at the swing spots (Deng, Nocioni, Krhyapa, Sefolosha). Make an offer, bitches.
:clap
I think of those players the only one they would't give up is Deng

[smeagol]

The bulls need a big man, not a 6-9 power forward.

[Mr. Body]

Nah, they need an inside scorer. Doesn't matter a whole lot how big he is.

[Bob Lanier]

They have Mike Sweetney for their unathletic, undersized post scoring.

If Scola's not fat, he and Skiles could get along better than Skiles and Sweets, maybe.

[hitmanyr2k]

Nah, they need an inside scorer. Doesn't matter a whole lot how big he is.

They already tried the under-sized big man experiment with Elton Brand. Not sure they want to do it again with Scola.

[PM5K]

They already tried the under-sized big man experiment with Elton Brand. Not sure they want to do it again with Scola.

EB plays as well as any other big man in the league...

[ChumpDumper]

Oh man, Chicago would love to go back in time and rescind the Brand trade.

If the Spurs don't want him, why wouldn't they want to trade him? Chapu is talking out of his ass.

[Bob Lanier]

The Spurs hate Mexicans, that's why.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

[exstatic]

“They (the Spurs) don’t want him. They don’t want to trade him for scraps”
Fixed it.

Oh, and Elton Brand is arguably the best PF Chicago ever had.

[wildbill2u]

I forget how much Scola would cost to bring over. Does anyone actually know what the current buy-out would be? I know we had thread after thread about it last summer. I was wondering if he could replace Bonner in an emergency buyout at a reduced price since the season is half gone... ???

Probably impossible for lots of reasons.

Even though bonner may not need surgery, I'm apprehensive that he won't be able tocome back, get in shape, and contribute much this season.

[Spurs Brazil]

Asked to compare Scola and Oberto, Nocioni said Scola is much better. But he’s a different kind of player. Scola is more offensive-minded; Oberto is a much better defender.

Oberto is much better defense player than Scola, WTF. Now I know why the Spurs don't want him. He may be the worst defense player all-time

[JPB]

I forget how much Scola would cost to bring over. Does anyone actually know what the current buy-out would be? I know we had thread after thread about it last summer. I was wondering if he could replace Bonner in an emergency buyout at a reduced price since the season is half gone... ???

Probably impossible for lots of reasons.

Even though bonner may not need surgery, I'm apprehensive that he won't be able tocome back, get in shape, and contribute much this season.

His team won't let him go in the middle of the season. Euroleague is no NBDL or CBA. Tau has big issues and Scola is a huge part of it.

Concerning his height, is it 6'9 with or without sneakers ?

[NBA Junkie]

I'm sure the Bulls are still holding out hope for Kevin Garnett. And, they could be one long Minnesota losing streak in the next month to getting him.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Oh, and Elton Brand is arguably the best PF Chicago ever had. Stacey King!!!

[Solid D]

Bob Love

[remingtonbo2001]

SCOLA WOULD BE A GREAT FIT IN CHICAGO....We need to sell this trade....Chicago has some talent we could benefit from...What about Chris Duhon...Maybe Beno and Scola...I don't think that adds up.....Would probabily need to throw in some picks, if we have any left.

[Marcus Bryant]

There are worse things than the Spurs having a scoring big available on the bench.

[dg7md]

I'd like having Scola HERE, but if they aren't ever going to try to get him over, they may as well trade him.

[vanvannen]

Fixed it.

Oh, and Elton Brand is arguably the best PF Chicago ever had.


Dennis Rodman anyone???

[exstatic]

Brand >>> Rodman

Butterbean Love was pretty damn good though.

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs need to "come to grips" with the age, lack of talent and athletic limitations on this roster. The FO is guilty of organizational arrogance. They should stop trying to build the second coming of the Argentinian Olympic team and focus on making upgrades to the roster with a couple of younger (below 30), domestic players.

This would give them a more balanced roster. If they can leverage Scola's rights into making a logical trade - so be it.

[v2freak]

The Spurs need to "come to grips" with the age, lack of talent and athletic limitations on this roster. The FO is guilty of organizational arrogance. They should stop trying to build the second coming of the Argentinian Olympic team and focus on making upgrades to the roster with a couple of younger (below 30), domestic players.

This would give them a more balanced roster. If they can leverage Scola's rights into making a logical trade - so be it.


:tu

I'm all for trading Scola at the moment. Question is, would the Bulls do it and if so, what would they be willing to give up? We have 3 point guards as it is, + 2 players who could bring the ball up (Barry and Gino) in any given moment. We also have quite a few swing men at the 6'6"-6'7" persuasion.

[regio]

SCOLA WOULD BE A GREAT FIT IN CHICAGO....We need to sell this trade....Chicago has some talent we could benefit from...What about Chris Duhon...Maybe Beno and Scola...I don't think that adds up.....Would probabily need to throw in some picks, if we have any left.
I agree. Nocioni is kind of redundant since they have Deng. So maybe Scola + some other player for Nocioni makes sense for the Bulls

[ShoogarBear]

The bulls need a big man, not a 6-9 power forward.Don't tell them that. If they think they need Scola, let them.

[ShoogarBear]

Oh, and Brand > Love. And Love wasn't really a true PF.

[ploto]

The Spurs need to "come to grips" with the age, lack of talent and athletic limitations on this roster. The FO is guilty of organizational arrogance. They should stop trying to build the second coming of the Argentinian Olympic team and focus on making upgrades to the roster with a couple of younger (below 30), domestic players.

I think a big issue is that the Spurs don't want to have to pay the players while they develop if they don't have to, and so they have used the European league as a free training ground. The Euro players get developed on someone else's payroll and then the Spurs plan to bring then into the NBA cheap, but it just does not work that way anymore.

[ChumpDumper]

They were trying to make something out of nothing picks, plain and simple. Scola would have already been signed if his contract hadn't been so ridiculous.

[SenorSpur]

I think a big issue is that the Spurs don't want to have to pay the players while they develop if they don't have to, and so they have used the European league as a free training ground. The Euro players get developed on someone else's payroll and then the Spurs plan to bring then into the NBA cheap, but it just does not work that way anymore.

Maybe, but you simply cannot ignore domestic talent. How good would they have looked if they had simply selected Josh Howard, who fell into their fucking laps during the 2003 draft. A clear example of how they have simply disregarded the domestic talent pool.

[Mr. Body]

Josh Howard on this team? Threepeat.

But the front office swore off domestic talent at some point, for some bizarre, idiotic reason.

[raspsa]

The only way we'll ever really know if Scola has an NBA game or not is to let him play. If the Spurs aren't willing to do so, trade his rights and don't keep him hanging. He comes with strong credentials and if he has a passion for the game to go along with his evident skills, these matter far more than an additional 1 or 2 inches in height.

[ploto]

Maybe, but you simply cannot ignore domestic talent. How good would they have looked if they had simply selected Josh Howard, who fell into their fucking laps during the 2003 draft. A clear example of how they have simply disregarded the domestic talent pool.
Only time will tell about the drafting of Ian and how long will the team have to wait for that.

[ChumpDumper]

They were trying to sign a domestic point guard.

[Bruno]

Bulls badly need a low post scoring threat, Scola is a good fit for them. Their 07 first round pick (NYK pick) isn't looking that great for the moment and they won't likely fix that need with him. Players like Al Horford should be gone before ther pick.

On the other end, aside pipe dream trades (Nocioni, Deng, Thomas...), Bulls have few things that can help Spurs : a good backup PG (Duhn) and a long SF (Khryapa). Duhon trade value isn't that high after a crappy month and a suspension for one game. Khryapa is stuck on the bench.

The deal I'd like to do is : Williams + Udrih + Scola for Duhon + Khryapa.

Bulls get a low post scorer for next year for is a clear upgrade over sweetney, a PG with some skills that can maybe be good after a change os scenary and an expiring.

Spurs get a solid backup PG and the famous long SF. They go under the luxury tax too.

[mountainballer]

The deal I'd like to do is : Williams + Udrih + Scola for Duhon + Khryapa.

Bulls get a low post scorer for next year for is a clear upgrade over sweetney, a PG with some skills that can maybe be good after a change os scenary and an expiring.

Spurs get a solid backup PG and the famous long SF. They go under the luxury tax too.

agree that this would be a great trade for the Spurs.
but the question is, why should the Bulls do this right now, when they would downgrade their current team significantly and could also wait till summer with a trade for Scola's rights? and this summer we can't include Williams, because his contract has expired.

all in all the Bulls are a very good trade option for different scenarios. I wonder why noone mentions the option to include Buter in such a deal. yes, his value isn't that high, since he didn't play this season, but in general he fulfills the Bulls job describtion for a low post scoring big.
yes, Bulls won't want another slow fat man in the first place, so it would be necessary to take Sweetney of their hands. (who might be more usefull for us this year and has an expiring contract anyhow)

maybe a trade Sweetney+Khryapa for Butler+Bonner could be worked out and then Scola's rights and a pick of the Bulls (they won't give up on the 2007 pick as long as it will be a lottery pick, but maybe the 2008 first rounder?)

[Bruno]

the question is, why should the Bulls do this right now, when they would downgrade their current team significantly

I disagree that they significantly downgrade their roster :
- Khryapa is useless to them with Nocioni, Deng, Thomas ...
- Duhon has played a lot but he has been quite bad this year (and horrible lately). Hinrich, Gordon and Sofolosha have been better than him this year. Bulls will be fine at PG/SG with them and Udrih, Griffin at the end of the bench.
- Bulls players are young (except Big Ben). Mavs and Suns are still better than them : they can accept a slighty downgrade this year if it brings them an upgrade in the future.



could also wait till summer with a trade for Scola's rights?

Spurs can too decide to sign Scola this summer. In that case Scola won't be available.
Scola trade value will likely be higher this summer than Duhon + Khryapa because the FA market for big men is really weak this year. It's a buy low thing for Bulls : they use the fact that Spurs need a long SF and a backup PG to get Scola for cheap. Spurs have asked a first round pick + cash for Scola last summer : Trading only average backup players to get him is a good deal.



I wonder why noone mentions the option to include Buter in such a deal. yes, his value isn't that high, since he didn't play this season, but in general he fulfills the Bulls job describtion for a low post scoring big.
yes, Bulls won't want another slow fat man in the first place, so it would be necessary to take Sweetney of their hands. (who might be more usefull for us this year and has an expiring contract anyhow)

So you want that Bulls trade their main low post scoring threat for another one that isn't ready to contribute ?
Butler for Sweetney make few sense for them because Sweetney seems to be better than Butler this year and because Butler can't be considered as a good prospect that will help them in the future.



maybe a trade Sweetney+Khryapa for Butler+Bonner could be worked out

I don't see why Bulls will do this trade.
Sweetney for Butler is a lateral move at best. Bonner is injured and isn't really usefull for them.
Even if Khryapa doens't play, they have traded a second round pick and the
2nd pick for him and the 4th pick : I'm not sure that they are ready to just give him for a player like Bonner.

[mountainballer]

Bruno, so we agree that the Bulls are one of the most interesting teams for the Spurs to work out a trade (if not THE most interesting team), but I give you reasons why I think your proposal won't work and you give me reasons, why my proposal won't work.
jesus, I fear we are somehow bad fans :lol

ok, I withdraw the word "significantly" uf you withdraw the words "main low post scoring threat" for a player who is only their 12th man in the rotation, getting a DNP-CD in almost every other game.

my thought here was, that the Bulls for sure have given up on Sweetney and won't try to resign him, while they might see a future option in Butler. I thought Butler might be a teaser for the Bulls to somehow get the IMO most important part of the package for the Spurs, which is getting Khryapa.

one thing is interesting about the current Bulls team makeup IMO. looking at the rotation of the Bulls I would consider any of the Bulls players, who is not part of the regular rotation, as interesting from the Spurs point of view.
(I rank players, who play less than 15 minutes as not part of the rotation)

excluding Thomas and Sefolosha, the remaining players Khryapa, Allen, Sweetney and even Griffin might play a bigger role with the current Spurs than with the Bulls, because they all offer some things the Spurs lack.

the much I would love to get Duhon, I guess we can agree, that it is easier to talk another team into a trade, (in case you don't have something above average to offer), when you are not asking for a core player of the other team.

don't get me wrong, I don't overrate players like Sweetney, Allen or Griffin and think they could get us to another level. I'm just thinking in packages that might help a little part by part. (not that I want all of them, just thinking combinations with Khryapa)
say Griffin. his defense and rebounding ability is something our bench misses.

so a Khryapa+Duhon trade would be great, but a Khryapa+Griffin trade would also help the Spurs and is more realistic to somehow finalize.

[Mr. Body]

Bruno- I used to be against that trade but am more receptive. I just don't think the Spurs pay $3M for a back-up point guard. They're that cheap. And I believe they think they can get more for Scola than this, thinking they can move up in the 2007 draft. And has Duhon been better than Udrih lately?

[Bruno]

My POV about Sweetney and Butler is that Butler isn't an attractive project for Bulls. I agree with you that Bulls won't re-sign Swettney but the main reason is his conditionign problems. I don't see Bulls staff ready to get another players with similar conditionning problems. Sweetney doesn't play a lot but he is a situational player sho is quite usefull for them when they need some beef in the paint.

About Bulls no-rotational players : I'm not as "high" as you on them. I don't see Griffin helping us more than Williams and Allen/Sweetney helping su more than Elson/Oberto/Horry/Bonner. THe only no-rotational player I like is Khryapa.

If Chicago wants Scola, they had to give up something Spurs need. Khryapa + crapy players isn't to me a fair return for Scola. Scola is the best PF in europe, is still quite young and can be had for a cheap contract ($9M/3 years) : IMO, is value is higher than a ok prospect like Khryapa. Khryapa + Duhon isn't a great offer too but Spurs should do it if they cna't get a best offer because it solve a lot of their weakness.

[Mr. Body]

If Chicago wants Scola, I don't see them trading for him mid-season. They have no need to, even if that's when the Spurs need new players.

[Bruno]

I just don't think the Spurs pay $3M for a back-up point guard.

$3M with only one year left is quite cheap contract. Most of the backup PGs are more paid in the league. I don't think Spurs are ready to spend $30M/5 years for a backup PG (players like Watson, Daniels...) but $6M/2 years shouldn't be a problem.



And has Duhon been better than Udrih lately?

No. Duhon is shooting 6/40 from the field in January. Buy low, my friend , buy low.

[Bruno]

If Chicago wants Scola, I don't see them trading for him mid-season. They have no need to, even if that's when the Spurs need new players.

I agree it's unlikely but we can imagine Spurs contacting Bulls for saying them that they are interested in Khryapa and that can lead to a Scola trade.

[mountainballer]

And has Duhon been better than Udrih lately?

the big difference between the two is, that even without hitting his shots, Duhon still has made some impact on the defensive end and remains a solid playmaker, who doesn't turn the ball over much.
in January he still had 4.8 APG on an outstanding Ass per TO rate of 6.8,
Beno had 2.3 Ass per TO.

so yes, Duhon has been better than Udruh lately.

[mountainballer]

$3M with only one year left is quite cheap contract. Most of the backup PGs are more paid in the league. I don't think Spurs are ready to spend $30M/5 years for a backup PG (players like Watson, Daniels...) but $6M/2 years shouldn't be a problem.


agree that Duhon is one of the more inexpensive PGs, compared to what he delivers.
I don't know who said, that Spurs would never pay 3 million per year for a back-up PG. why not? I agree that they wouldn't pay 5 million or more, but 3 million for a back-up isn't out of the Spurs usual salary scale.