Who can the Spurs really afford to lose?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I have read countless threads and posts about how much the spurs really need to augment their roster with that seemingly magical player...the athletic long 3 (Honestly, I find it surprising that everyone seems to think these guys grow on tress... I cant think of two many players that fit the description everyone is in love with so much...can shoot, keep up with Nowitiski, rebound, and score hustle points etc, etc.)

My question is, who can this team honestly afford not to keep? It's en vougue to say that a nice combination of Barry/Finley/Beno/Scola would fetch one of these players...but outside of the seemingly brainless Clippers that would trade Magette for Beno and Barry...I dont think too many teams would consider any of those three guys for anything near the kind of talent everyone here is clamoring for.

Here are the players that I think the Spurs could potentially trade and get anything decent in return for:

Manu

Parker

Duncan

Maybe Elson if he's packaged with Parker or Manu.


Really, the rest of this team is too old or not worth the price of admission when it comes to bidding for one of those guys.


Edit:

And I really dont think anyone in the NBA gives a rat's ass about Louis Scola, who isnt exactly putting up 30 PPG over in Europe.

[Mr. Body]

I'd expect Parker to be shopped this summer if the Spurs lose.

Elson has some value.

The rest of everybody has value as expiring contracts, including Oberto. I can't think anybody'd trade for him simply as a player.

Barry would have similar value he has now.

I disagree on Scola. He has value.

Otherwise this isn't a team with a lot of value packed in the cracks. One appeal to getting Maggette is that he'd still have trading value if he doesn't quite work out.

[Leetonidas]

That's the thing. The Spurs can't lose any of the Big 3 without getting superstar talent in return or they will not even be contenders.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

It doesnt make sense to me to lose Parker considering we would not have a PG w/o him...I mean that leaves Barry and Beno running the point... and He is the youngest and soon to be most talented player on this roster... my two cents

[Mr. Body]

IMO they'd have to. Lose this year to Dallas and they're definitely not winning next year. Parker is the guy with the most value and upside. They'd have to replace him somewhere with a PG, but I do believe they'd shop him around. Not that I'd think they'd get much equitable in return, or that I want them to, but we need to recognize how relatively drastic it will be if we lose in the second round again.

[JPB]

I'd expect Parker to be shopped this summer if the Spurs lose.
Elson has some value.

The rest of everybody has value as expiring contracts, including Oberto. I can't think anybody'd trade for him simply as a player.

Barry would have similar value he has now.

I disagree on Scola. He has value.

Otherwise this isn't a team with a lot of value packed in the cracks. One appeal to getting Maggette is that he'd still have trading value if he doesn't quite work out.

:wtf
A 25 years, continuely progressing PG.
20 ppg - 6 apg - 50%+ shooting

Sure, if Spurs lose trade our future to rebuild with... ?

there's something I'm missing here ... :guin


you gotta explain me that.

[Ocotillo]

It'll be interesting to see what Duncan's contract negotiations are like when his deal is up. He is approaching his tenth year in the league and his numbers are down due to improvement of Parker and Ginobili. He is at that point like Robinson was in the later years of his career. When the production begins to decline, do you want to trade a guy who is the face of the team?

Gervin was shipped out. It was considered shipping out DRob. Of the three, Parker is the least expendable.

[Mr. Body]

:wtf
A 25 years, continuely progressing PG.
20 ppg - 6 apg - 50%+ shooting

Sure, if Spurs lose trade our future to rebuild with... ?

there's something I'm missing here ... :guin


you gotta explain me that.

Not much to explain. If we lose this year, we are essentially out of championship contention forever, as is. We're not fixing this team over the summer enough to overcome that kind of gap. Maybe a 15% chance we can, if we somehow pull a Nocioni with the MLE or something unbelievable.

Our only true asset is Parker. Ginobili and Duncan are basically the franchise and too popular to shop. So you shop Parker. The question is, what's his plateau? Has he hit it?

Note I did not say TRADE him. I said SHOP him. What can you get for Parker? Will that help the team? He's the single moveable asset with value.

Or we gamely plod on to upper-middle tier, passed by younger teams left and right.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Not much to explain. If we lose this year, we are essentially out of championship contention forever, as is. We're not fixing this team over the summer enough to overcome that kind of gap. Maybe a 15% chance we can, if we somehow pull a Nocioni with the MLE or something unbelievable.

Our only true asset is Parker. Ginobili and Duncan are basically the franchise and too popular to shop. So you shop Parker. The question is, what's his plateau? Has he hit it?

Note I did not say TRADE him. I said SHOP him. What can you get for Parker? Will that help the team? He's the single moveable asset with value.

Or we gamely plod on to upper-middle tier, passed by younger teams left and right.


I agree...for the most part.


I don't know who, outside of the big 3, has any real trade value. Finley might, but I don't know.

[JPB]

Not much to explain. If we lose this year, we are essentially out of championship contention forever, as is. We're not fixing this team over the summer enough to overcome that kind of gap. Maybe a 15% chance we can, if we somehow pull a Nocioni with the MLE or something unbelievable.

Our only true asset is Parker. Ginobili and Duncan are basically the franchise and too popular to shop. So you shop Parker. The question is, what's his plateau? Has he hit it?
Note I did not say TRADE him. I said SHOP him. What can you get for Parker? Will that help the team? He's the single moveable asset with value.

Or we gamely plod on to upper-middle tier, passed by younger teams left and right.

Same question every year since Tony arrived...and every year he has progressed. Do you really think at 25 he won't progressed anymore ? Nash is 32, kidd 34.

If he's a true asset why trade him ? To get a long SF. Ok but then you'll have to trade your long SF to get a good PG...

Spurs don't need a SF in place of someone, they need a SF in addition of the big three.

[Mr. Body]

I'm just saying if they lose again this year (when they lose?) a shake-up is in order. We're kidding ourselves if we don't see it. My guess is the Spurs will hold on to Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan, and flail away at a 4-6 seed again next year.

[ChumpDumper]

We're completely ignoring the value of expiring contracts. Really, if we aren't going to play Eric Williams while Bonner is out we need to trade him or waive him and take on someone who might play this season or in the future.

[ChumpDumper]

Of course to send out an expiring deal, the Spurs would want to take back a deal that expires after next season, so that really limits potential trades.

[MmP]

I think you gotta be insane to trade or lose Parker. He's still developing and he's the future of the franchise. Remember that basketball peak is usually reached at the age of 28-29-30.
Duncan is untradeable, still if he's not playing great you can't give away the face of the Spurs.And Manu is still providing numbers and great game, his age is becoming an issue but as long as he keeps producing (and adding Pop's admiration to Manu's style of play) he'll stay.

It's like JPB said, Spurs don't need a SF in place of someone, they need a SF in addition of the big three. Someone who provides the spark, primarly a young SF who can run the floor.

[Mr. Body]

Starting Starting Forward for Your San Antonio Spurs --- A rabbit out of a hat.

[ChumpDumper]

So in order to get younger, the Spurs must trade their 24 year old All-Star point guard.

Do you guys think before you post?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Of course to send out an expiring deal, the Spurs would want to take back a deal that expires after next season, so that really limits potential trades.

Williams for Bonzi Wells.

[ChumpDumper]

And the GM of the other team would have to be in his right mind -- also a limiting factor.

[lil'mo]

spurs should have considered going after Wells the second he got through shredding them in th first round of last year's playoffs

[nkdlunch]

spurs should have considered going after Wells the second he got through shredding them in th first round of last year's playoffs

good call

Bonzi Wells:
6.8PPG 4.0RPG 1.2APG

[lil'mo]

since joining the rockets .....where he hardly plays

[wildbill2u]

Hypothetically, without emotion, is it time to trade Duncan while he still has some value?

What could you reasonablly hope to get--and from who? I don't think you get a young up-and-coming player at value to value (Duncan for Bosh for example)

So would you take a lottery pick in the hope of getting a superstar of the future?

Based on current standings, the potential lottery teams are: Memphis, philadelphia, Charlotte, Atlanta, Boston, NO, Seattle, Sacramento. Would any of them rather have TD than a lottery pick this year?

[Texas_Ranger]

You expect that the Spurs will trade TP, TD and Manu?:lol.
Tim Duncan will never be traded, I think that is the same with Manu and Parker.
Can't you all see that the Spurs organisation is so dumb that they don't wan't to trade even Barry and Beno for Maggette, or they don't wan't to trade old Williams.

[ploto]

I think the issue the Spurs have to face is really pretty simple--

Either you have 3 fairly high paid players in Duncan (very high) and Manu and Parker, which leaves you very little to fill out the rest of the team monetarily speaking

or

You trade one to give you the money to bring in better role players around your 2 stars.

I actually think Manu would be the most likely traded because the Spurs think big man and point guard are the hardest spots to fill. If anyone thinks the Spurs would never trade Manu because he is popular, they just don't know much Spurs history. Remember- it's just a business.

[remingtonbo2001]

It'll be interesting to see what Duncan's contract negotiations are like when his deal is up. He is approaching his tenth year in the league and his numbers are down due to improvement of Parker and Ginobili. He is at that point like Robinson was in the later years of his career. When the production begins to decline, do you want to trade a guy who is the face of the team?

Gervin was shipped out. It was considered shipping out DRob. Of the three, Parker is the least expendable.

Go hang out with Buck Harvey....Seriously, Tim could easily average 25 and 12, but it's not required of him with regard to the scheme of things. If Poppavich were to run the offense entirely through Tim, his numbers would be considerably different. But guess what, IT'S JANUARY. There's no need for him to exert that extra amount of energy just yet....Wait until March. Right now, we need to get a system down. This is difficult because a couple of pieces are out, Elson, Bonner. Unfortunately, the only way our system is truely beneficial is if everyone is healthy. This is in part, due to our age. Our youth will be very important come playoff time, as well as our expeirence. What many seem to be missing is that both work together, hand in hand. If each player can regain, and/or retain health, then I believe the Spurs have the right mix of expierence and youth that will allow them to return to the Finals.

[Big P]

Let me start by saying that I dont think we should trade any of the big 3, but if we had to, I would rather trade Parker than Manu or Duncan...& even then it would have to be for a young PG..3 trades that make some sense, would be:

SA trades Parker & Oberto to Seattle for Ridnour & Rashard Lewis

or

SA trades Parker, Oberto & EWill to Chicago for Hinrich, Khrypa & PJ Brown

or if that last Chicago trade doesn't return enough

SA trades Parker, EWill, Oberto & Vaughn to Chicago for Hinrich, Nocioni & Brown.

[ducks]

I know I will get blasted but you have to try to trade manu before tp
why age and our point guard problem
tp has the most upside but manu has a shorter contract
manu still does have value

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Agree with ducks. Have always said that we should trade Manu for a young wing player and/or picks. If we can get a first rounder and a second rounder for Manu or a good young player and a couple of second rounders for Manu, I would do it. Try Isiah and get him to release David Lee.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Let me start by saying that I dont think we should trade any of the big 3, but if we had to, I would rather trade Parker than Manu or Duncan...& even then it would have to be for a young PG..3 trades that make some sense, would be:

SA trades Parker & Oberto to Seattle for Ridnour & Rashard Lewis

or

SA trades Parker, Oberto & EWill to Chicago for Hinrich, Khrypa & PJ Brown

or if that last Chicago trade doesn't return enough

SA trades Parker, EWill, Oberto & Vaughn to Chicago for Hinrich, Nocioni & Brown.

Not trying to be an ass but I wouldnt do any of those trades cause Parker is our future. No one trades an all-star guard who is 24 -25 and improving all the time for those players suggested. Hinrich aint all-star material yet. If theres any player on the Bulls roster that I like its Ben Gordon. That guys ceiling is much higher than Hinrich.

[Mr. Body]

Anyone thinks Parker is our future is mental. Tony Parker is not a franchise player.

[ChumpDumper]

And Manu is?

[Mr. Body]

Closer to one. The main difference is Parker would draw better offers.

[Marcus Bryant]

The only way making Parker "available" would fit in with the current regime's plans is if they believe that would serve to motivate him. Otherwise, he is the future of the franchise. About the only thing worse for a team than being a lottery team is being a lottery team without a star to be the face of the franchise.

[Mr. Body]

'The future of the franchise' my ass. The best Parker will ever be is second fiddle to a much greater player. The Spurs probably keep him, but not because he's a Top 50 player or something. His talents are seriously overblown here.

[Marcus Bryant]

He's a NBA All-Star and easily the team's most marketable player. He counts a major European nation among his fanbase and has yet to reach his 25th birthday.

[SenorSpur]

We can banter all types of trade scenarios around, but make no mistake about it - the Spurs, as presently constructed, cannot compete with the likes of Dallas and Phoenix.

The FO should have saw this coming during last year's playoffs, when Pop had to radically and drastically alter his lineup versus the Mavs in the WCSF. They're now paying dearly for their own organizational arrogance and we're seeing the results.

Having said all that, if it took a 1st round pick + Barry + Beno to get Maggette (and a backup PG in return) - DONE DEAL!

The Spurs need to start bolstering this roster and acquiring a younger, quicker swingman in Maggette would be a good start.

[pad300]

We can banter all types of trade scenarios around, but make no mistake about it - the Spurs, as presently constructed, cannot compete with the likes of Dallas and Phoenix.

The FO should have saw this coming during last year's playoffs, when Pop had to radically and drastically alter his lineup versus the Mavs in the WCSF. They're now paying dearly for their own organizational arrogance and we're seeing the results.

Having said all that, if it took a 1st round pick + Barry + Beno to get Maggette (and a backup PG in return) - DONE DEAL!

The Spurs need to start bolstering this roster and acquiring a younger, quicker swingman in Maggette would be a good start.

If you do the Magette deal, rather than get Maggette + Backup PG, try to get Magette + Singleton. Then try something like this with Philly

Bonner, Williams, Finley for S. Hunter and Joe Smith (expiring). This saves Philly money in the long run (due to their being over the Lux tax threshold), and I think improves our bigs (it gives us 2 big fast guys - Elson and Hunter, who can stay on the floor beside Tim against Dallas/Pheonix). Smith is also a useful player (banger PF/C) & is expiring so we don't lose cap flexibility.

Then either pick up Francis when he is bought out or get that Conroy kid from the D-league as 2nd/3d PG respectively.

Revised Roster
Bigs - Duncan, Elson, Hunter, Oberto, Horry, Smith, Butler
Wings - Manu, Bowen, Maggette, Singleton
PG - Parker, Francis/Conroy, Vaughn.

Doling out the minutes - regular season
Duncan 30-32 (24 mpg PF, 6-8 mpg C - rest him a little more & work the new bigs into the team)
Elson & Hunter 35 (combined at C, between 25 to 10 for each depending on how each is playing that night. We are very effective with a highly mobile big beside Duncan - look at the record with Elson > 20 MPG this year, and when Horry wakes up in the playoffs in 2005.)
Butler 0 (Bench/Dleague)
Oberto/Smith/Horry 29 (split between PF & C, dependent on matchups and how each is playing that night, likely 2 players at 15 mpg, and 1 player sitting in rotation)
Manu - 25 (currently averaging 27.7 mpg, at SG. Reducing to give minutes to Maggette and to rest him a bit)
Bowen - 30 (currently average 32.2 mpg, at sf. Reducing to give minutes to Maggette and to rest him a bit)
Magette - 30 (currently averaging 27.3 mpg, primary backup SG (23 min)&SF (7 min) work him into the rotation).
Singleton - 9 (backup SF, work him into the rotation also as a big SF).
Parker - 30-32 (Currently 32.9 - rest him a bit and see what the new backup PG can do).
Conroy/Francis - (15-18 - needs as many as possible to pick up the system)
Vaughn - Spot minutes (like he is currently).

[TDMVPDPOY]

i think scola/javtokas will not be in the spurs future

i was high on mahinmi, but he looks like a bust stayin in europe

seriously all that euro credit we get from the media is going to backfire on us.

if we are going to rebuild, we need to rebuild quick like the lakers after shaq fiasco....

[Mr. Body]

if we are going to rebuild, we need to rebuild quick like the lakers after shaq fiasco....

So... we need to trade Shaq?

j/k

I think it will be several years before Mahinmi is ready, so we can stash him from the front of our minds. Scola is 27 or so; Mahinmi will be the same when he's ready to come.

[TDMVPDPOY]

So... we need to trade Shaq?

j/k

I think it will be several years before Mahinmi is ready, so we can stash him from the front of our minds. Scola is 27 or so; Mahinmi will be the same when he's ready to come.

seriously those guys are useful in the prior-small ball BS, and pop is shit at it now. Those guys will come in handy if stern is going to change the rules allowing free play for the bigs like how the wingplayers get special treatment.....

[ploto]

seriously those guys are useful in the prior-small ball BS, and pop is shit at it now. Those guys will come in handy if stern is going to change the rules allowing free play for the bigs like how the wingplayers get special treatment.....
That is a very good point. So many of the players stashed in Europe are big men who by now are not as useful as at the time they were drafted. Spurs have one SF there, but I have not heard a thing about Viktor all year. I did wonder at the time, why the Spurs keep drafting big man after big man after big man. Of the guys they drafted playing in Europe, so far it's been the smaller guys to make it to the NBA-- Tony, Manu and even Beno- and Giricek.

[TDMVPDPOY]

That is a very good point. So many of the players stashed in Europe are big men who by now are not as useful as at the time they were drafted. Spurs have one SF there, but I have not heard a thing about Viktor all year. I did wonder at the time, why the Spurs keep drafting big man after big man after big man. Of the guys they drafted playing in Europe, so far it's been the smaller guys to make it to the NBA-- Tony, Manu and even Beno- and Giricek.

STERN has to change the rules since there be big guys comin in from the 07 draft who a majority of them can revive the bigs in the league. So far we got a young group of bigs in the league, but they dont get the special treatment like the lebrons, wades,.....

[zeleni]

Who the spurs could lose?

I would say Elson, Williams, Bonner, Butler, Udrih and Voughn.

Who can be added with time? A whole bunch of Cs and PFs can be here on the rookie contract.

I think the Spurs are waiting for the playoffs to finish. Then they will know everything about Oberto and Udrih and make all the moves for the next season. So how far will the Spurs go?