Obama

[Marklar MM]

He has formed a presidential exploratory committee. Looks like he is planning on running.

http://www.barackobama.com/

[Fillmoe]

he stands no chance...... the worlds a fucked up place and race does matter.... sorry to break it to yall

[Guru of Nothing]

he stands no chance...... the worlds a fucked up place and race does matter.... sorry to break it to yall

Ironic thought for the day - George W. Bush may single-handedly break down all racial barriers in popular American politics.

[boutons_]

The racist, chauvinistic, xenophobic, jingoistic, excluding Repugs will swift-boat him.

I've already seen his father slimed as radical Muslim,
and Obama will be slimed as a childhood Muslim.

If the Repugs want to see what The Ugly American looks like,
they need only look in a mirror.

[JoeChalupa]

Whoohoo!!! That's what I'm talkin' about....right there!!!

http://www.demstore.com/scstore/Obama/images/bumper.jpg

[DarkReign]

he stands no chance...... the worlds a fucked up place and race does matter.... sorry to break it to yall

Funny, but if he does run and there arent any MAJOR fuckups in his past (doing drugs isnt major, getting busted for drugs is) or during his campaign, he'll win in a landslide.

So much for your perceived racism, eh? USA, soooooooo racist, those minorities got it so tough here.

[Spurminator]

It's going to be dicey... I expect that if Obama wins the primary, Republicans will make every effort not to say anything that could be remotely construed as a racist remark about Obama, but you know it won't be enough. Some Representative from a podunk district is going to slip up and say something like "the pot calling the kettle black" or "niggardly" and it's going to be the biggest story of the election.

[Bob Lanier]

So much for your perceived racism, eh?
Well, you convinced me!

[DarkReign]

It's going to be dicey... I expect that if Obama wins the primary, Republicans will make every effort not to say anything that could be remotely construed as a racist remark about Obama, but you know it won't be enough. Some Representative from a podunk district is going to slip up and say something like "the pot calling the kettle black" or "niggardly" and it's going to be the biggest story of the election.

Unfortunately true, but from a Barrack perspective, does that help or hurt?

My opinion, it cant hurt his chances. I think he comes across so damn well and can articulate his thoughts with wit and conviction, that his chances of losing are slim to none.

I am not saying I am right, by no means, but thats just how I feel. I find him to be refreshing actually. Another stodgy WASP from myfamilyisveryrich, USA doesnt exactly relate to me. Never has, but thats whats out there, and youre constantly faced with the decision between the lesser of two evils.

[DarkReign]

Well, you convinced me!

Its an opinion, I realize that.

But the south isnt going to vote for him, I think everyone knows that going in, you think?

[boutons_]

"But the south isnt going to vote for him"

of course not, the rise of the Repugs in the South was based on the Repugs' cynical, coded pandering to southern racists.

The poor, agricultural, rural south used to vote Democratic as the progressive party of the have-nots, but as the "South Rose Again" and made some money as the services became more important than industrial, a lot of racist southerners thought they had become the "haves" and switched to anti-progressive, racist Repugs. Prime example is Texas, then Georgia and Florida.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

[DarkReign]

^ I dont particularly agree, but thats just my opinion (an uninformed one at that)

[Spurminator]

Unfortunately true, but from a Barrack perspective, does that help or hurt?

My opinion, it cant hurt his chances. I think he comes across so damn well and can articulate his thoughts with wit and conviction, that his chances of losing are slim to none.

I am not saying I am right, by no means, but thats just how I feel. I find him to be refreshing actually. Another stodgy WASP from myfamilyisveryrich, USA doesnt exactly relate to me. Never has, but thats whats out there, and youre constantly faced with the decision between the lesser of two evils.

Not sure. But I do know it'll be nice and divisive. Just like we like our elections.

[101A]

Forget the Republicans. The Clintons are his biggest obstacle (and the most likely to destroy him).

[Fillmoe]

Funny, but if he does run and there arent any MAJOR fuckups in his past (doing drugs isnt major, getting busted for drugs is) or during his campaign, he'll win in a landslide.

So much for your perceived racism, eh? USA, soooooooo racist, those minorities got it so tough here.

dude who are you kidding? You live in AMERICA... dont be so fucking blind...... this aint about minorities having it tough its about a black man running for president..... I wouldnt mind a obama in office... it would be a change from the norm.... shit i wouldnt even mind hillary in office...... anything other than bush is an instant plus for me......

and wasnt it well known before the 2000 bush election that george bush was pulled over for driving under the influence and once busted with cocaine and marijuana? you honestly think a black man running for president could get away with that?

[101A]

dude who are you kidding? You live in AMERICA... dont be so fucking blind...... this aint about minorities having it tough its about a black man running for president..... I wouldnt mind a obama in office... it would be a change from the norm.... shit i wouldnt even mind hillary in office...... anything other than bush is an instant plus for me......

and wasnt it well known before the 2000 bush election that george bush was pulled over for driving under the influence and once busted with cocaine and marijuana? you honestly think a black man running for president could get away with that?

Don't know about the cocaine bust; Bush has never been OFFICIALLY linked to Cocaine; rumors, but no adminssion or arrest, as far as I know.

But, to answer your question, could a black man be elected president if he had once been pulled over for DWI, and had rumors of past Cocaine/drug use?

Yes.

Obama, and Powell are two of the most respected MEN in this country right now. Conservatives LOVE Clarence Thomas; we currently have a female, black Secretary of State AND a female Speaker of the House (what's that 3rd and 4th in line?)

There isn't enough racism left in this country to keep a black man from getting elected president just for being black, IMO.

Now does that mean Jesse Jackson can run and get elected? No. But Obama can....and so could Powell.

[boutons_]

"There isn't enough racism left in this country to keep a black man from getting elected president just for being black, "

With the presidential elections being won 50.x - 49.x, there are enough racists to keep blacks out.

The swift-boaters/Rove-ians will make enough Muslim slime stick to Obamba (as well as other slime), that he probably doesn't have a chance, as the racists, jingos, xenophobes, rabble and sheeple get roused up.

08 is big opportunity for the Dems. Like in 2000, it's their election to lose. The Iraq war has destroyed the Repugs chances, esp McCain, but the Dems have shown they know how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[xrayzebra]

"There isn't enough racism left in this country to keep a black man from getting elected president just for being black, "

With the presidential elections being won 50.x - 49.x, there are enough racists to keep blacks out.

The swift-boaters/Rove-ians will make enough Muslim slime stick to Obamba (as well as other slime), that he probably doesn't have a chance, as the racists, jingos, xenophobes, rabble and sheeple get roused up.

08 is big opportunity for the Dems. Like in 2000, it's their election to lose. The Iraq war has destroyed the Repugs chances, esp McCain, but the Dems have shown they know how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Yep and most of it on the dimm-o-crap side. Look how many black
candidates have they left swinging in the wind.

[ChumpDumper]

How many?

[Yonivore]

How many?
Sharpton and Jackson, to name two.

By the way, just what has Obama done that qualifies him for the presidency? Hell, he's even less qualified than was Jimmy Carter.

[ChumpDumper]

Sharpton and Jackson, to name two.How were they left swinging in the wind? They fucked themselves over without help from anyone else.
By the way, just what has Obama done that qualifies him for the presidency?He was born in the US and is over 35. Don't be so afraid Yoni, there's plenty of time to swift boat this guy.

[Yonivore]

How were they left swinging in the wind? They fucked themselves over without help from anyone else.
Did the Democratic party ever treat them as more than the joke they are? No. They left them swinging in the wind...and, you're right, they fucked themselves. The Democratic Party seems less inclined to do the same with Obama. I wonder why.


He was born in the US and is over 35. Don't be so afraid Yoni, there's plenty of time to swift boat this guy.
I'm not worried. With his socialist ideology and Hitlary against him, he doesn't stand a chance.

[ChumpDumper]

Did the Democratic party ever treat them as more than the joke they are? No. So you're saying they should have treated them as more than the jokes they were?
The Democratic Party seems less inclined to do the same with Obama. I wonder why.He's not a joke.
I'm not worried. With his socialist ideology and Hitlary against him, he doesn't stand a chance.Yes, your repeated posting about him shows how comfortable you are.

[Yonivore]

So you're saying they should have treated them as more than the jokes they were?
Hey, anytime a black is offended, the offender has to apologize to Sharpton or Jackson. The Left sure doesn't treat them like a joke when it suits them.


He's not a joke.
You're right. He's nothing but a media creation.


Yes, your repeated posting about him shows how comfortable you are.
I honestly don't recall the last time I posted anything on Obama...much less repeatedly.

Look, the guy's a socialist and he's yet to do anything politically except beat a self-destructive Republican. Name an accomplishment, I'm open to changing my opinion of him.

[ChumpDumper]

Hey, anytime a black is offended, the offender has to apologize to Sharpton or Jackson.They don't have to.
You're right. He's nothing but a media creation.That you are afraid of.
Look, the guy's a socialist and he's yet to do anything politically except beat a self-destructive Republican.That may be all that's necessary in '08 thanks to Bush.

[Yonivore]

They don't have to.
Really? If they want the public thrashings to stop they do.


That you are afraid of.
This from the person that claims I've repeatedly posted about Obama. I'm not afraid, I merely wondered what makes him qualified to be President -- more so than the other Democratic contenders? So far as I can tell, it's merely the fact that he's partially black.


That may be all that's necessary in '08 thanks to Bush.
Wow, you don't give the other Democrats much credit there, do you? How is that thanks to Bush?

I'm telling you, the guy will never survive the Hitlary political machine.

[ChumpDumper]

Really? If they want the public thrashings to stop they do.Nah. You guys are too sensitive to criticism.
Wow, you don't give the other Democrats much credit there, do you?No, I don't.
How is that thanks to Bush?He has fucked over the Republicans for years.
I'm telling you, the guy will never survive the Hitlary political machine.Then you have nothing to worry about. No more posting necessasry.

[Yonivore]

No more posting necessasry.
So, what are you afraid of? I thought this was a political forum and that Obama was a politician.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not afraid of anything. It's entertaining how everyone is able to project their hopes and fears onto this one guy. So keep posting if you must. It says more about you than Obama.

[Yonivore]

I'm not afraid of anything. It's entertaining how everyone is able to project their hopes and fears onto this one guy. So keep posting if you must. It says more about you than Obama.
Damn, I make my first comments about Obama and you accuse me of being afraid and of repeatedly posting on him. I'd say you're being defensive on his behalf.

[ChumpDumper]

Nah, I have no real opinion on him, except that I enjoy the fact he makes the righties here go apeshit. By all means, keep posting.

[Yonivore]

Nah, I have no real opinion on him, except that I enjoy the fact he makes the righties here go apeshit. By all means, keep posting.
Your definition of "apeshit," if indeed you're applying it too me and my opinion of Obama, is pretty weird.

I actually think I've posted more about your defensiveness over Obama than I have about Obama himself.

[ChumpDumper]

Keep posting.

[Yonivore]

Keep posting.
Okay, thanks.

[Fillmoe]

Don't know about the cocaine bust; Bush has never been OFFICIALLY linked to Cocaine; rumors, but no adminssion or arrest, as far as I know.

But, to answer your question, could a black man be elected president if he had once been pulled over for DWI, and had rumors of past Cocaine/drug use?

Yes.

Obama, and Powell are two of the most respected MEN in this country right now. Conservatives LOVE Clarence Thomas; we currently have a female, black Secretary of State AND a female Speaker of the House (what's that 3rd and 4th in line?)

There isn't enough racism left in this country to keep a black man from getting elected president just for being black, IMO.

Now does that mean Jesse Jackson can run and get elected? No. But Obama can....and so could Powell.


Be honest with yourself.... the media would eat Obama alive if it was ever rumored that he had been linked to cocaine in any form...... There isnt enough racism left in this country to keep a black man outta office? man what country do you live in... i see blind racism every day its not even funny..... do you know theres places in south carolina, where slaves were once sold, that are now national monuments.... why would we want to praise something like that?

[ChumpDumper]

Be honest with yourself.... the media would eat Obama alive if it was ever rumored that he had been linked to cocaine in any form.He admits to using it in the past.

[Fillmoe]

He admits to using it in the past.


the questions will be raised as time gets closer to the elections...... just watch ;)

[ChumpDumper]

I'm sure they will. It's just interesting it's not something that already out there and undisputed.

[DarkReign]

Be honest with yourself.... the media would eat Obama alive if it was ever rumored that he had been linked to cocaine in any form...... There isnt enough racism left in this country to keep a black man outta office? man what country do you live in... i see blind racism every day its not even funny.....

Thats called perceived racism. I dont know if youre Union or not, doesnt much matter. But I deal with all Union customers everyday, for nearing 7 years. Thanks to affirmative action, all racism in the work enviroment I am in, has been replaced by "instant handout for being a minority/woman."

Dont make me cite examples. Its not even worth it. The company I work for has been owned by a male forever up until this year. Why? Because if he puts it in his daughters names, its a humungous tax break AND (this is the kicker) his companies name's go to the top of the list when dealing with GM, Ford, Hyundai, TRW, Daewoo, etc.

Being a "Minority Company" gives this place a fucking handout for no other reason than the persons ethnicity/gender.

I had reservations in the sense that it wouldnt make a big impact as he thought. Boy, was I totally wrong. Last year, total machines sold (not delivered, sold) = 28. Damn good year when you think each is worth almost $180k.

In October of 2006, he started the paperwork for the changeover. By late November he had a "Soon to be Certified" certificate from the powers that be (bunch of women's organizations, I couldnt name them all if I tried). He immediately sent that out to ALL customer contacts (contacts answer to their bosses about who they buy from and why).

December 2006. 7 machines sold with purchase orders.
January 2007. As of our Monday morning meeting, 6 more purchase orders for 12 machines.

Obviously, it cant keep this pace up (I hope, God, I hope). But our most modest projections based on customer needs, relation and forecast we are going to sell (not deliver) over 50 machines this year.

Thats incredible, and has no ryhme or reason than the extra 'umph' being a minority gives us. Because then GM, Ford, etc can tell Uncle Sam "Look, we did $XXXX.X million in business with minority owned companies, we get a tax break, right?" He says "Sure do, youre a helluva an American."


do you know some some places in south carolina where slaves were sold are national monuments.... why would we want to praise something like that?

National monuments to....what? Link?

[Yonivore]

I'm sure they will. It's just interesting it's not something that already out there and undisputed.
That's because he's 1) a Democrat, 2) black, and 3) an Oprah fave,

[ChumpDumper]

That's because he's 1) a Democrat, 2) black, and 3) an Oprah fave,Don't even see it on FoxNews.

[Yonivore]

Don't even see it on FoxNews.
That's because they're fair and balanced,

[ChumpDumper]

So, since FoxNews thinks it's a nonissue, it's a nonissue.

[Yonivore]

So, since FoxNews thinks it's a nonissue, it's a nonissue.
Or, maybe it really is a non-issue.

[ChumpDumper]

Are you going to contradict yourself in every thread?

[Clandestino]

i think all of it is a non-issue until there is only 1 dem and 1 rep running for president.

[Fillmoe]

National monuments to....what? Link?


http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/travel/charleston/osm.htm

http://sciway2.net/2002/a38m/homepage.html

[NorCal510]

Obama is my homeboy

[Yonivore]

I hope this doesn't qualify me at posting "repeatedly" on Obama but, I thought this was interesting.

Hillary's team has questions about Obama's Muslim background (http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm)

[Extra Stout]

I hope this doesn't qualify me at posting "repeatedly" on Obama but, I thought this was interesting.

Hillary's team has questions about Obama's Muslim background (http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm)
Ah yes, the vile "Obama is a secret Muslim" meme.

I've thought about this for a while. Isn't it enough that Obama is a flaming liberal? Aren't his positions on the issues so far from what conservative Christians believe that their voting for him would not even be a concern? Shouldn't his two whopping years of national political experience create pause given the current global climate?

Why would it be necessary to insinuate something so ridiculous as that Obama is a terrorist mole?

I know that Yoni doesn't care so much either way. He is more than anything else a partisan rather than a doctrinaire conservative, so if there is a meme to push, he'll push it. Whatever is good for the party.

I think what it boils down to, is that Obama, liberal, social-gospel late-converting Christian that he is, nevertheless has the ability to communicate with evangelicals. My own experience is that a lot of evangelicals stick by the Republican Party as an exercise in identity politics rather than ideology. The Republican Party acknowledges God, and far too often, the Democratic Party, or at least its activists, want to marginalize faith.

And here is this Obama guy, on the one hand making the case to evangelicals that there is more than one way to look at politics through the eyes of faith, and on the other hand exhorting his own political fellow travelers to recognize the moral power of faith, and to forge dialogue with the evangelicals whom they instead have written off for the past 20 years.

It occurs to me that even if Obama lost, he could have the power to change the paradigm of the relationship between conservative Christianity and the Republican Party forever. So therefore, it is not enough to point out his hopelessly left-wing positions on the issues, or his utter lack of relevent political experience, because it is possible that a significant chunk of evangelicals might then conclude it is OK to have hopelessly left-wing positions on the issues, and that could be even worse for the GOP than to have President Barack Obama.

They must impugn his Christian faith. Pointing out that he is a member of a faith background (UCC) that plays fast and loose with the immutable tenets of Christianity isn't enough, because boy, he sure sounds Christian. So, in this age, what better way to impugn his faith than to conjure up the image of the Muslim bogeyman?

This is a dangerous gamble of a strategy, though, because it leaves Obama one Checkers speech away from making himself look like the sincere one, and his Religious Right detractors the wolves in sheep's clothing.

And I wouldn't want to bet against Obama's silver tongue in a situation like that.

[DarkReign]

^ never disappoints

[td4mvp21]

So Obama is muslim?

Obama is probably the only Democrat candidate I would vote for in the upcoming election, but I want to research what he's for more. I don't really agree with his beliefs, but having a Muslim president might actually be good for us, maybe ease the tensions a little between us and Middle East countries.

[AFE7FATMAN]

I think that just because Osama is a smoker, will loose him a lot of votes, just the same way it would if a 300 lb man named BUDDA ran.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56873

[ChumpDumper]

How has smoking hurt candidates support in the past?

[AFE7FATMAN]

It hasn't to my knowledge, but the times, they are a changing.

[DarkReign]

http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/travel/charleston/osm.htm

Uhhhh...thats a terrible example. That building was preserved to ensure no one forgets what a horrible atrocity slavery was/is. Its apart of the African American history, arts and crafts.

Would you prefer they demolished every thing associated with slavery, then tried to explain how it all went down?

Nothing is as effective as a visual aid. Take people inside, show them theliving conditions, the inhumanity and humiliation of another human being being auctioned.

Nothing would drive it home, really home, like actually walking in footsteps.


http://sciway2.net/2002/a38m/homepage.html

Thats a site dedicated to the history of Charleston and its economically-intertwined relationship with slavery.

Again, do you think these sort of things should be forgotten? Because I dont. Every country stands on its history, no matter the good or the bad. Every country has a similar history, I would hope they dont forget that fact as well. Fail, educate, teach, remember, do not repeat. Is that not life?

[Fillmoe]

answer me this question..... what kind of people do you see going to this museum? do you really think black people want to take their kids there and show them what happened to their great great ancestors? are you aware that we are not that far removed from slavery yet? how do you think a child old enough to comprehend what happened is going to feel?

[ChumpDumper]

answer me this question..... what kind of people do you see going to this museum?Why does Bill Cosby have a collection of racist memorabilia?
do you really think black people want to take their kids there and show them what happened to their great great ancestors?I believe many would.
are you aware that we are not that far removed from slavery yet?Yes, and historical sites like those remind us all.
how do you think a child old enough to comprehend what happened is going to feel?That some serious shit went on back then. Really, are you against the existence of all the Holocaust monuments in Europe too? The Auschwitz concentration camp was restored and made into a state museum along with Birkenau. A quarter million people visit that site every year, including no small number of Jews. Memorialization is not necessarily celebration.

[Yonivore]

answer me this question..... what kind of people do you see going to this museum? do you really think black people want to take their kids there and show them what happened to their great great ancestors? are you aware that we are not that far removed from slavery yet? how do you think a child old enough to comprehend what happened is going to feel?
Like Jews to the holocaust museum.

[Fillmoe]

Why does Bill Cosby have a collection of racist memorabilia?I believe many would.Yes, and historical sites like those remind us all.That some serious shit went on back then. Really, are you against the existence of all the Holocaust monuments in Europe too? The Auschwitz concentration camp was restored and made into a state museum along with Birkenau. A quarter million people visit that site every year, including no small number of Jews. Memorialization is not necessarily celebration.

i bet the jews feel wonderful about that one....... "look son, heres where grandpa was cooked medium rare"

including no small number of jews? yah id like to see proof of that one....

and for your information, of course i think they shouldn't still be up..... shits on stain on mankind and by turning them into museums you are acknowledging guys like Hitlers "accomplishments"... if you can even call them that..... oh wait then again we are the same country that honored him as man of the year.........

[DarkReign]

i bet the jews feel wonderful about that one....... "look son, heres where grandpa was cooked medium rare"

including no small number of jews? yah id like to see proof of that one....

and for your information, of course i think they shouldn't still be up..... shits on stain on mankind and by turning them into museums you are acknowledging guys like Hitlers "accomplishments"... if you can even call them that..... oh wait then again we are the same country that honored him as man of the year.........

So, youre saying we should strike physical evidence about human tragedy from our lands in the hope that the written word is enough to prevent history repeating itself?!

Thats just stupid man. Very stupid.

[DarkReign]

i bet the jews feel wonderful about that one....... "look son, heres where grandpa was cooked medium rare"

including no small number of jews? yah id like to see proof of that one....




:lmao I didnt even read your whole post before responding. If I had, I wouldnt have after reading your rubbish. Dude, youre assuming, with no basis in fact. Because if YOU were Jewish, you wouldnt go, than obviously real Jews wouldnt go, because if you were, you wouldnt.

Thats some stupid shit right there. Grats

[Fillmoe]

So, youre saying we should strike physical evidence about human tragedy from our lands in the hope that the written word is enough to prevent history repeating itself?!

Thats just stupid man. Very stupid.


aslong as stupid fucks are given power in the world history is gonna repeat itself regardless and mankind has proven that over and over again...... ever heard of a history book? shit is well documented and taught in schools...... you don't need visual evidence of it especially when that visual evidence is gonna bring even more hatred.....

[ChumpDumper]

i bet the jews feel wonderful about that oneIt's not about feeling wonderful.
and for your information, of course i think they shouldn't still be up..... shits on stain on mankind and by turning them into museums you are acknowledging guys like Hitlers "accomplishments":lol So tear down all the Holocuast musems all over the world? In the US? The ones founded by Jews?
including no small number of jews? yah id like to see proof of that one....Here's some examples: http://www.remembranceandhope.com/

http://www.motl.org/

[Extra Stout]

Fillmoe, you don't belong in the deep end of the pool.

[Fillmoe]

Fillmoe, you don't belong in the deep end of the pool.


incorrect..... apparently i see things different than others...... not a single thing i posted was false information.......


and congratulations on your reply having nothing to do with anything at all..... you really contributed to this thread..... :clap

[ChumpDumper]

March of Living marks Holocaust

March of the Living Organisers said this year's march was the biggest yet
More than 18,000 people have taken part in the annual March of the Living between the notorious Auschwitz and Birkenau death camps in Poland.

It comes 60 years after the camps were liberated by Soviet troops.

More than one million people, most of them European Jews, were murdered by Nazi Germany in the two camps.

Israeli PM Ariel Sharon, addressing the marchers, called for people to remember that the world stood by while six million Jews died in the Holocaust.

Speaking at a memorial gathering at Birkenau after the march, he said: "Remember the victims and remember the murderers.

"Remember how millions of Jews were led to their deaths and the world remained silent."

Organisers said this year's march was the biggest yet.

The 3km (2-mile) event, marking Holocaust Remembrance Day, began in 1988.

It symbolises the death marches that took place when the Germans began emptying the camps and forcing prisoners to walk hundreds of kilometres in freezing weather with little food. Thousands died on the marches.

Mr Sharon was accompanied to southern Poland by 20 Holocaust survivors and 20 of their grandchildren, who are serving in the Israeli army.

"With me are Holocaust survivors. Men and women who survived persecution, torture, mental and physical degradation; true heroes who experience the death marches, the deportations and searches, who survived ghettos, Auschwitz, Buchenwald... concentration and death camps whose monstrous names are carved in blood in the history of our people," he said.

The prime ministers of Poland and Hungary also took part in the event. Some 450,000 Hungarian Jews were killed at Auschwitz.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4515537.stm

Any more questions?

[Fillmoe]

Any more questions?


nope, you brought forward facts and proved me wrong. what more could i ask for?

[Extra Stout]

incorrect..... apparently i see things different than others...... not a single thing i posted was false information.......


and congratulations on your reply having nothing to do with anything at all..... you really contributed to this thread..... :clap
Your opinions from what I have read largely are based upon ignorance. Certainly that is the case on this subject.

The reason history repeats itself is because people are ignorant of what has happened in the past and have made the same mistakes.

Visual evidence makes history concrete. When it is just in a book it is easy to make abstract and to trivialize. Holocaust deniers would love for the Holocaust museums to be shut down. They don't want the history of the Holocaust to be shared. And why do you think that is? Because usually people who deny the Holocaust hate Jews, and when other people see first-hand what the endgame of that kind of hate can be, they tend not to hate so much.

It is easy to hate people in the abstract, as an idea. It is difficult to hate individuals on the basis of race, or religion, or things like that. It is hard to hate when the evidence of what that hate entails is shoved in people's faces.

The same dynamic works for slavery. There are lots of Southern partisans out there who would love to romanticize the Old South. They would love to make it seem as if blacks are just exaggerating about how bad slavery and segregation were. And if the only place where those things are talked about is in a book, then it's easy to say that the book is just slanted. And like I said before, when it is just words written on a page, and the only notion people can have of history is in the abstract, then it is very easy to rationalize that it really wasn't that bad.

But when you can point to a building and say, this is where black slaves were bought and sold like cattle, then the atrocity becomes concrete, and the dissonance between what people believe is decent, and the evidence of what the behavior of people was in the past, is clarified.

There are lots of Southern partisans out there who love to claim that any of a million other things were the reason the Confederacy seceded. They would love to claim that slavery was just a side issue that was fading away anyway. But the visual evidence of just how wrapped up in the institution of slavery the economy, infrastructure, and everyday life of the South was, shatters that argument.

If the reaction of Alabama police to the Selma marches were just printed in prose form in the New York Times, rather that broadcast on television, do you think the Civil Rights movement would have gained the moral high ground that it did?

This is why, as has been mentioned before, that Jews frequently are heavily involved in these Holocaust museums, and why black people involved in Civil Rights activism get so involved in the memorialization of the atrocities and abuses of the past. They want people to know.

Because if we allow these things to be whitewashed, we raise the chances that they will be repeated.

[johnsmith]

Fillmoe, you normally crack me up, but I think you are having your ass collectively handed to you in this one.

[101A]

Your opinions from what I have read largely are based upon ignorance. Certainly that is the case on this subject.

The reason history repeats itself is because people are ignorant of what has happened in the past and have made the same mistakes.

Visual evidence makes history concrete. When it is just in a book it is easy to make abstract and to trivialize. Holocaust deniers would love for the Holocaust museums to be shut down. They don't want the history of the Holocaust to be shared. And why do you think that is? Because usually people who deny the Holocaust hate Jews, and when other people see first-hand what the endgame of that kind of hate can be, they tend not to hate so much.

It is easy to hate people in the abstract, as an idea. It is difficult to hate individuals on the basis of race, or religion, or things like that. It is hard to hate when the evidence of what that hate entails is shoved in people's faces.

The same dynamic works for slavery. There are lots of Southern partisans out there who would love to romanticize the Old South. They would love to make it seem as if blacks are just exaggerating about how bad slavery and segregation were. And if the only place where those things are talked about is in a book, then it's easy to say that the book is just slanted. And like I said before, when it is just words written on a page, and the only notion people can have of history is in the abstract, then it is very easy to rationalize that it really wasn't that bad.

But when you can point to a building and say, this is where black slaves were bought and sold like cattle, then the atrocity becomes concrete, and the dissonance between what people believe is decent, and the evidence of what the behavior of people was in the past, is clarified.

There are lots of Southern partisans out there who love to claim that any of a million other things were the reason the Confederacy seceded. They would love to claim that slavery was just a side issue that was fading away anyway. But the visual evidence of just how wrapped up in the institution of slavery the economy, infrastructure, and everyday life of the South was, shatters that argument.

If the reaction of Alabama police to the Selma marches were just printed in prose form in the New York Times, rather that broadcast on television, do you think the Civil Rights movement would have gained the moral high ground that it did?

This is why, as has been mentioned before, that Jews frequently are heavily involved in these Holocaust museums, and why black people involved in Civil Rights activism get so involved in the memorialization of the atrocities and abuses of the past. They want people to know.

Because if we allow these things to be whitewashed, we raise the chances that they will be repeated.



(Fillmoe drowning)

[BIG IRISH]

......... are acknowledging guys like Hitlers "accomplishments"... if you can even call them that..... oh wait then again we are the same country that honored him as man of the year.........

before his shit became known. and by the way Many, Many so called
great Americans and other " World Leaders" were praising Hitler right up till Dec 7, 1940. In the future please give us a break and stay in the Troll Forum.